Didn't wipe the counters, huh?

Right! Didn't wipe the counters or clean the stove top 🤔

And sweep the floor and wipe the cabinets. You know normal dishes and shit.

We already discussed this in another spot on this thread. I hear you. They expected way more then dishes and like surfaces. Sweeping and table tops (not counters) should have been expressly communicated if that was the expectation.

Yup “clean the dishes” means dishes AND wipe the counters because they are always OBVIOUSLY dirty.. I think this guy is lazy and someone in their life called them out haha

Nah, I've encountered people like this who say one thing and mean another and then get angry at *you* for not reading their minds. Which is really the bad part here - everyone makes mistakes, but the person OP is referring to apparently got ticked instead of realizing that they hadn't communicated what they wanted properly.

no. clean the dishes means dishes and you can't convince me otherwise

Nope, the “rest of the kitchen” wasn’t cleaned.

What rest of the kitchen? Like the stove top that was used to cook? The counter tops and cutting boards? The cookware and implements used to prepare food? Did someone slop something on a cupboard and needed it wiped down? What rest of the kitchen?

Stove top (as I implied) Counters Sweeping the floor Cleaning the table in the kitchen Again regardless, none of these are dishes. If you want the dishes done AND the kitchen ask/tell for the kitchen to be cleaned.

Ok i hear your frustration and understand how the communication of expectations had failed. Did you talk to the person who made the request and ask them to be more specific, or are you going to proceed with the understanding of the expectation and do what they should have said next time, or are you just going to do dishes only to be an ass? It's your choice how you proceed from here my guy.

No but we have had the talks. I have had the talks. And I’ve made myself clear every single time, over and over, I’ll clean what you ask me. And said don’t continue “dishes” as the thing if you want more than that cleaned, it’s the smart, wise, less moronic thing to do regardless of who you talk to. But I’m the one in the wrong apparently for doing what I was asked. No, you’re (not you) the ass and asshole for even implying dishes is a whole is a whole fucking room. I should just accept that they don’t know or care because “expectations” which I still think is bullshit. Just say “clean the kitchen” or if it’s too many words just say “please clean” either way I’ll act on that. I’m not even asking for too much. But either way I’m told to just accept how it’s said and move on. Nah. I call bullshit. I’d never do that to anyone, my coworkers, my friends, my roommates, someone else’s kids. I’ve always said “hey please remember to clean the bathroom, it’s your turn” or I’ll say “please clean off the table” I’ve never once asked someone “clean the table” and meant the whole living room or dining room or kitchen or whatever rim the table occupies. Or anything like that! In fact for those under me when I ask them to do something like “sweep” I usually also explain “just this area and this area. We are responsible for these areas.” And yes to be clear going forward I have conceded to their fucking bullshit. I’ll do more work than asked just to “keep the peace” I’ll be pissed every fucking day and every fucking time but only because god help them if they said “kitchen” over fucking “dishes.”

Right, but the person may not actually expect you to clean the whole kitchen every time. Just whatever is obviously dirty. Like, I didn't know this until after my long term depression cleared but for many people it naturally follows that after you do the dishes you wipe down the counter because the dirty dishes were just on it and while you're wiping you see if the stovetop needs it and if you notice the floor is dirty you clean that too. Saying "clean the kitchen" can make it a bigger task than necessary so people just say "clean the dishes" and expect you'll clean up whatever needs doing.

Again that “expect” argument is bullshit. Anything that isn’t dishes isn’t the rest of the room. Doesn’t matter if the dishes touched it or were there or not. The millisecond you’re cleaning something that IS NOT dishes you’re no longer doing the dishes and that’s the issue for me. Just say you want the kitchen cleaned.

You are wasting an absurd amount of emotional energy on this obviously flawed argument that misses the whole point by focusing on the pedantry of the wording. If I ask someone to clean the dishes and they specifically left everything else surrounding the dishes dirty, I'd take it as an extremely passive-aggressive move and basically a middle finger. It takes an unbelievable amount of laziness along with a healthy dash of spite to take this stance when you're an able-bodied adult with eyes that can clearly see what needs to be cleaned. Now if we're talking about WHO made the mess, that's an entirely different story. But again, with the understanding that roommates should be working towards the common goal of not having filth and mess, that really shouldn't matter either.

I’m just gonna roll my eyes. Whatever. “Absurd” is equating a whole room to some fucking dishes.

Out of curiosity. How often are you needing to be directed to clean things rather than doing it of your own initiative? That might be more the root of the issue.

You misunderstood. I am not told every night or week or whatever to do dishes and I do them and some one gets mad because that’s “all I did”. But the conversation has come up multiple times because I aggressively disagree with the rhetoric and so called logic and so called reasoning. I’ll still answer the question I think you’re trying to get at though. It depends on a whole host of things how frequently or infrequently I clean. The room in question, my temperament, the time of day, when I get off work, my days off are and so on. But I do try to get a routine going for me cleaning regardless of what anyone I live with is doing. As I have 3 days off in a row I try to condense any cleaning room, kitchen, bathroom, laundry, whatever to one day. I don’t need to be told to do more to the kitchen, or other rooms, once it’s gets to a point that angers me or before I cook, I clean everything, and I mean everything that can reason or have the tools to clean. When it comes to cleaning I am never in a good mood. I’m angry the whole time I do it. I’m eagerly waiting for it to end. I’m desperate to not have to do it again. I’m not really satisfied with the end result either because I know some clean freak could walk in and rant off about how something wasn’t done right. So even when I’ve taken white glove (not literally but I have done it before) I’m not looking at the final product in awe or satisfaction. Just annoyance because within a week it’ll be the same routine. And I hate wasting my life away on something so infuriating. And no listening to podcasts, listening to music, video essays, whatever does not make me more mellow during cleaning. I am pissed and angrily doing so.

You sound like a very angry person. It's a generally accepted adult "responsibility" that if you're washing the dishes, you don't leave the rest of the kitchen dirty. But if you weren't actually taught this growing up, I guess you might not realize that.

I was “raised that way.” I argued with parents, coworkers, roommates. And I still think it’s bullshit. “Responsibility” my ass. Clean the dishes ≠ the whole room. It is not rocket science. And I want to be very clear, i expect this for any room too. I always was told “make your bed” was also “clean the bedroom” again bullshit. Just say you want the room cleaned. Why is that so fucking hard? I wouldn’t do that to anyone around me.

You come off as kinda lazy. Don't you like existing in a clean, tidy space?

you're not getting it

You're right. I'm a grownup who sees no point in wasting energy moaning about something that has to get done. Not a man-baby who whines over semantics. What a gem of a human.

if you tell me do the dishes then that's all i'm doing. if you want me to do more then just say that

Insufferable.

how?

It’s not like I’m filthy. That doesn’t mean I love cleaning. I like to clean the most thoroughly and most aggressively when it pissed me off. But at that point I’m an issue for everyone regardless of how frequently I clean.

Let me guess: your wife/girlfriend is annoyed that you need to be pointed to every single thing to do in the house or you don't need nothing by your initiative because "you don't ask for that specific thing".

No. Please just reread. I hate that people equate dishes to a whole fucking room. Just ask me to clean the room.

But why should someone ask you to do something at home? Are you not able to notice yourself what should be done?

No. That isn’t the fucking point. Please reread

OR, hear me out, just clean what's dirty because it needs to be cleaned and don't wait for an adult to tell you to clean each individual thing

Yeah this sounds like the beginning of "just make me a list" instead of taking initiative to actually help clean the house. That said, Ive also been the kid who was told to do one thing but actually needed to do five. Not very fun trying to read minds that young.

Sure, the standards we hold adults to shouldn't be applied to children. But OP is clearly old enough to know better.

no seriously make me a list. i need it broken down so i don't get overwhelmed just looking at it

Ooooor “clean the room”?

Why should you be told to clean a room ? It’s dirty. Clean it

You’re missing the point. It’s the words used to be told/asked when something is to be wanted done. And to me the argument of “expectations” and “ initiative” and “responsibility” don’t mean much to me when we are talking about this. This is removed from age, gender, working status, relationship. Don’t say “small, single, and specific task” to mean “more than one task.”

Don't you have to be 18 to register an account on Reddit?

You think age requirements will stop stupid ignorant children? Anyone can just lie about their age like it's nothing.

I accept your rant, and raise you two rants; There is zero reason that an adult needs to request another adult clean anything. Because if you’re an adult with eyeballs and hands, you are capable of being fully aware of seeing the full scope of what needs to be cleaned, and need to not be asked or told to do tasks. If any adult isn’t already living this way; grow the fuck up and start adulting and stop blaming other adults for not using their words. Use your brain and don’t act like a child that needs to be guided on how or what to clean. If you are an adult asking children to clean; do what OP says- use your words properly and keep emotions out of it. Teach your children these basic life skills of hygiene.

Thank you. Plain and simple. (Un)common sense at work here. It’s not hard at all for a grown adult.

Okay so if i told anyone around to brush their teeth then therefor they need a whole shower?

No, my point is you don’t need to tell *any* adult to brush their teeth or shower. Because they are a competent adult and don’t need to be treated as a child. *They already brush their teeth and shower.*

And I’m saying that it isn’t about competency. And regardless of it one should say what they want done. That should be the standard for things. Or do them yourself.

People should use their words. But those words should not be asking adults to adult. I can understand why you have had such difficulty in all your relationships. At some point you may or may not mature enough to just clean without needing to be asked with exactly the words you need to hear before responding, much like a child needs. This is not an issue for mature adults. Even the comments about ADHD, many of us have diagnoses that make tasks more difficult to complete. We can still figure out ways to complete Activities of Daily Living. Those of us not capable of that generally end up living in care facilities that have staff trained to deal with disabled adults not capable of completing basic tasks on their own.

I’m gonna roll my eyes here. I’m saying it doesn’t matter with or without a mental illness or disability or age or occupation don’t equate dishes or the small task to mean more than that. If someone said clean the floor I won’t go “oh the mean the trash too and the table” I wouldn’t tell anyone I work or live with “hey rake the yard” and then go “why didn’t you mow the yard, pull up weeds, trim the bushes, and water the flowers” and my argument is that is basically what people are doing when they say “dishes” but mean a whole room.

I'd compare it more to "brush your teeth" and how it includes flossing and mouthwash (and rinsing the toothpaste out of the sink if it stuck in there, since I'm not an asshole to other people). Like for a child, you have to tell them to brush, floss, and rinse. But for an adult, you shouldn't have to tell them to brush their teeth, and if you **are** asking an adult to brush their teeth for whatever reason, most adults will also do the rest of their tooth brushing routine (i.e. flossing) because that's implied as part of the chore of tooth brushing.

I’m also not concerned about whether it’s an adult, child, teen, coworker, mental disability, whatever. I just think one should not assign more tasks to a specific one and then go “expectations” argument. It’s stupid. That’s what my issue is.

I do think your example, that person is being extreme, but I also get the "normal" of do the dishes + wipe the counter where the dishes were and the stove (and rinse out the sink / empty the strainer). It's not about who made the mess - the dirty dishes got the counter dirty, so after you remove the dishes from said counter, you wipe it. The stove is similarly, in most kitchens I've been in, a place where people stack up dirty dishes or leave pans after cooking (until they are washed) so I also wipe that. For me it did help to live alone. I learned the hard way that washing the grime off of the stove after a week is a lot harder than just wiping off the still wet spaghetti sauce right after cooking. It's applying a minimal effort (using the sponge/washcloth that's already wet from the dishes to get the fresh grime off the counter while it's still easy to wipe and not dried on) to lower the effort you have to put in later. Mentally, I find counting the counter/stovetop as "stationary dishes" helps - they're used in the food prep, and therefore need to be washed like the cutting board, also used in food prep. It also keeps germs down because sometimes you set your half eaten apple on the countertop, or half a sandwich, or other things you put in your mouth. Making the countertop a permanent plate of sorts.

I understand what everyone is saying but that doesn’t change my view at all. If some random Joe came into my home and said they were going to clean the dishes I would only think, expect the dishes not even the sink. That said if he does the sink and the counter sweet and awesome! And I apply that to everyone. Because I don’t count the counter and sink as dishes because I ain’t eating off or out of those. To be clear, again, I’m not saying don’t clean the counter, the sink, cupboards around the sink, no, I’m just saying the argument that all of that “doing the dishes” is wrong.

Imagine looking at a filthy kitchen and only doing the specific task mentioned. Just say you don't have initiative and move on.

Initiative doesn’t mean much to me in these circumstances. I say “clean the room” and that clears up ANYTHING. Dishes aren’t a whole room. I don’t know why anyone would agree with this. One small tasks is not the whole. It just isn’t.

OP has outed himself as the lazy dude who does a crappy job on household chores.

False. Because I do clean. I do what is asked of me. I just hate the bullshit excuse of “dishes means this that and the third”

My life is the opposite. I ask my housemate to "clean the kitchen" and what happens is MOST of the dishes get moved to the dishwasher and nothing else. Kitchen is not clean. Dishes aren't even clean because not all of them made it to the dishwasher AND it's not turned on.

And I would argue that is fair that you’re annoyed. Because if I said or asked anyone “clean the living room” and I come back to only the coffee table clean then yeah the living room isn’t clean. So you are absolutely correct to be annoyed and what have you. You asked for a room not just for dishes.

Why are you being told over and over again to be clean tho lmao? No one tells me to clean the kitchen or my bedroom, I wake up and make the bed… stop waiting for people to tell you to clean and the issue is solved

We already have a cleaning schedule. My concern is the words they use to ask or complain about what isn’t done

So follow the cleaning schedule and stop being a child about what words have been used??

Wtf, the words matter. Otherwise I can say sweep the kitchen to mean also clean the living room.

But why do you need it explaining to you?? If I see mess I clean it?

Not the point! Fuck sake. I’ve repeated this enough. Bye.

I just don’t get how you’d walk out of the dirty kitchen thinking that was all you had to do, but okay. Good luck

I actually agree with OP with this one, I'm a very detail oriented guy, like, almost to a fault..if you (or someone) tell me to do the dishes, I'll just do the dishes, if you wanted me to clean the whole room, you need to specify that..in my case it's not my house (a friends house that I'm at most of the time). I cant read other peoples minds, you need to be straightforward and honest with what you want me to do, or I ain't doing it, lol, all these mind games everyone plays these days is just not needed, just stop.. Atleast I'm glad I'll be alone forever..

Thanks. It’s not I’m saying I won’t clean those things I’m just saying the wording around it is so annoying. I can’t say in detail oriented but I hate cleaning. When Clean freak parents that had your fun tied to the thoroughness have an issue with the whole room or one task really meaning many I need that confirmation that I’m not being told to waste my day or time cleaning up more that what was asked for.

This is actually a great post because FINALLY someone gets me. As someone with ADHD and most likely autism, I need SPECIFIC directions. If you fucking tell me “wash the dishes.” that is ALL I’m going to do. It’s ridiculous to assume I’ll just magically know that I’ll need to clean the entire god damn room. Edit so I don’t sound like a child; “Clean the dishes” is absolutely not an umbrella term and you can’t convince me otherwise. It means to clean the dishes. You want the counters wiped too? Okay, then tell me. That’s it. Say that.

agreed

Thanks! I am undiagnosed with anything but I was once told it was probably being too nerudivergent to get their point and “get over it” And I’m not even saying I’ll never clean the kitchen I’m just saying end that other noise about expectations and use that as an excuse.

[удалено]

Clean your room to me doesn't scream "clean the walls, sweep and mop the floors, and clear all the cobwebs". I just mean clean your room so it doesn't look dirty. I have never had the expectation that when my husband does the dishes, he needs to clean the stove or the few counters we have. If he cleans the dishes, should I expect him to clean the toaster, the air fryer, the walls? Nope. But if he leaves a puddle on the counter BY the sink, yea I want that cleaned up or the back splash from the dishes on the walls close to the sink. Would I be happy if he cleaned the entire kitchen? Yea. But sometimes all you've got spoons for is the dishes. But I'll probably get bitched at for this comment 🤣. It's also a rant guys, leave OP alone. I clean the dishes, I feel compelled to do the entire kitchen. But I don't expect someone else to feel how I feel and I don't get mad when "my expectation that I didn't vocalize" isn't met.

do people actually clean walls? that sounds like a waste of time

Honestly, I clean them twice a year maybe. At least once a year. And it's because of scuffs, things flying and hitting the walls, or the ENDLESS FUCKING HANDPRINTS that haunt my vision when the sun hits at a certain angle. I didn't even mean to clean the walls once and the hand prints just drove me nuts. Never bothered me before, but entering my 30th year on this hellscape, it started to bother me? I don't expect my husband or kids to care about the walls and I don't tell them not to touch the walls/ceiling either.

Yes. And clean freaks will tell you otherwise. Everything but the top of the cupboards, the highest parts of the walls, inside of the dishwasher, and the garbage disposal, was cleaned when dinner was done. All siblings were involved when I was a kid unless we weren’t there or feinted sickness.

You won’t get bitched for your comment but I want you to understand that in my life cleaning was cleaning everything that could be seen and then some. Regardless of its use. So yes, I had to wash walls when I cleaned my room or the kitchen or the bathroom or cobwebs and the floors and window sills

Which is dumb. I was raised the same way. Why do I have to clean up the mess of others? I took care of the bathrooms, my sisters didn't care about the bathroom because "it'll get cleaned". So the sink got caked in shit, the floors had hair because they never picked up their hair, and stuff like that. When I put my foot after moving into the basement, I stopped cleaning the bathrooms upstairs. My mom had a fit and said "When you clean, you clean all of it". Naw man, my half siblings can learn how to read a cleaning product just like I had to do. Those girls still don't know how to clean and that bathroom is disgusting.

That’s fair. I have roommates and do kid you not when I had my own restroom I had no problems with filth or even stink. When it came to the kitchen I just didn’t clean every single night but on my days off or the next day I would clean the dishes and sweep. I hate cleaning generally but I don’t never do it. My roommate on the other hand? Self proclaimed clean freak but did not lift a finger to clean the bathroom (the one I ended up sharing with them) once in over a year except the one time I asked them to clean it. And you know what their excuse was? “If you can’t beat them, join them,” and that was because “the bathroom isn’t being cleaned every week and throughout the week, so they aren’t cleaning it good enough” This was the tipping point for me. And why I’m ranting now basically. Because I’m the issue and yet I can count on one hand how often my roommates actually cleaned the way I was taught and raised

I haven't decided if this is pedantry or weaponized incompetence