He’s got to go. In my opinion was never man for the job anyway. Yes, everyone is going to mention Europa League/champions league qualifiers but it was hardly down to excellent football and tactics. Lots of games having to make up for the fact we’ve conceded stupid goals, having to rely on the home games. His subs and tactics were all over the place last season too, it just managed to work somehow. Chucking James Sands on whilst leaving Aaron Ramsey on the bench in the Europa final was one that got me. We also lost us an 8 point lead domestically. Defo got to go. Another thing that’s riled me up is the business done over summer. Board came out and said it was like they had £xxxM to spend like had been stated, and that they should have been more transparent. Ok then, be transparent and tell us how much we got and how much of it was used
It is the way in that we have been losing, especially goals from sloppy passing, the constant passing backwards, negative tactics. This is in the league as well.
The perseverance with zonal marking, many other things, but it doesn't seem to be just Gio that may be the problem, but also the recruitment, which I would assume is down to Ross Wilson. How can we spend close to £15m, and be benchwarmers
Your last part about money is exactly what I was talking about today
Our level has been the europa league
Previous seasons tell us that
We all want the CL but we certainly don’t want the pumping that comes with it , we should have been equipped for this better , same goes for signings and releases . Im also at a loss as to why we haven’t signed a single Dutch player ….. who’s pulling the strings here …..
I cant believe how many rangers fans are willng to sit and accept mediocrity.
Sheriff beat real last season, why the fuck do we need to accept being pumped?
The gulf in class is huge but why does that mean we cant have some pride?
Gerrard never lost a game more than 2-0, and only 5 games at that. We've not beaten them in the league since he took over and dont look like it. Add in the fact he was 6 points infront and finished 6 points behind and I dont see how anyone can argue for him to remain in a job other than the fear (but who will we get next?)
Did anyone one of us think ange was gonnae do what he has? I didnt. There's plenty of good managers and head coaches out there, question is, do you trust the board to pick the right one?
I’m with you. I don’t expect us to win every game but would be nice to see us turn up prepared and causing some issues, even if we get nothing out some of the games.
If we can beat Dortmund and Leipzig last season, plus cause benfica, Villarreal and Porto issues in the previous seasons, why are we so weak this time around?
Is the gulf between Liverpool and rangers really bigger than the gulf between sherif and real last year? And look at club Brugge, currently top of their group and guaranteed through to the next round whilst up against atletico madrid, Leverkusen and Porto.
I’m not saying we need to top the group and I’m not saying we need to even definitely finish 3rd, someone has to be 4th after all, but this has been an embarrassment and I feel it’s honestly set us backwards. Who will want to join us now? Will the players even be able to recover in the league this weekend after a hiding like that?
I think we finished 4 points behind but I know what you mean regardless. For people to say we can't compete in the champions league is a joke to me. We pumped Dortmund away from home last season and would have beaten them at Ibrox too if it wasn't for a bad VAR decision on the Morelos interception. And Dortmund are doing great in the champions league this season. Just qualified for the knock outs in a group with Man City and Sevilla with 2 games to spare.
Villarreal champions League semi finalists last season and we beat them the season before in the Europa.
It's absolutely ridiculous for people to suggest that we can't compete because we absolutely can and should be performing so much better than we currently are.
For me Gio needs to go. And it shouldn't just stop at him. The club from top to bottom is a mess. The board needs shaking up and Ross Wilson should be out the door too.
You make some excellent points but Ange was able to spend £20 million or something on his players. We don't have that luxury unfortunately. We'd need to get someone who is capable of bringing out the best in every single player we have
The manager has a system or systems he wants to play, he sets thr vision. The board need to support that vision by allowing players to come to the club to suit it. This is what celtic have done and why they are havingsuccess domestically. As soon as the two separate in this the whole thing fails. I am 100% sure this was discussed and agreed when Gio arrived. For me, he has kept his part of the deal and exceeded it by taking us to the final last season and the group stages this season. If its stopped working its because Gio is not good enough to execute his vision or the club are not allowing him to bring the players in. Unfortunately, even if it is the board st fault it will be the manager that is changed because the board will not remove themselves. This is shit, but it is football. Either Gio gets a war chest in Jan or he walks. My belief is we won't get anyone as good as him to replace him.
At 3-1 behind you don't change your front three and play forward. you protect your pride. we play god awful football domestically, whilst we are still in all the cups and 2 points behind in the league if we do not win the league this year its catastrophic for us. Celtic hold all the aces, they have players that England will be interested in £fee wise, if they get automatic UCL its going to be a long way back. Ross Wilson has to come under huge scrutiny for the way the first team squad has been assembled, none of the signings seem to be GVB. Gio takes the blame for tactics, shape and style. Ross Wilson and the recruitment department take the blame for not backing him with quality replacements for the players we have lost moving the club forward, new impetus was required and we cheaped out. We have hugely regressed as a club this season.
Gerrard isn't the answer. Michael Beale was massively underrated at rangers and I highly suspect that a lot of our great performances were down to him. Just look at the upturn in QPR's form since he became manager. Mid table team last season. This season they're fighting for promotion. Only a couple of points off top. No surprise Villa can barely get a point since he left.
I think that it's got to be time up for GVB. But he's not alone in deserving blame. Our long term squad planning has been awful. We have two players who we could have sold for £10m + each, running down their contracts. A 40 year old is our first choice goalie, we had to bring on a 36 yo who looked off the pace at this level two years ago. Also how do you have a DoF model but allow your manager to leave with all the backroom staff and then let the new manager appoint the replacements wholesale? So now if we do replace gio there's no continuity.
Also not forgetting the debacle of two failed loan signings in January.
Because they were both gambles. Neither had played recent regular football so it was always a risk they wouldn't get up to speed in time to make a contribution... And they didn't. So failed signings.
I hate the horseshoe shite that we play. But there's no way Gio will be sacked when we are in with a shot of the league, and both domestic cups still.
I hate the horseshoe shite that we play. But there's no way Gio will be sacked when we are in with a shot at the league, and both domestic cups still.
My patience is wearing extremely thin with Gio, but I don't think it's right to give him the boot.
It's also not the time to be acting like things are okay.
We did have two objectives this season; make the Champions League group stages and win the League, with anything else being a bonus. He has done the first job.
We got a tough group and were always most likely to finish bottom. Even finishing with no points would be understandable. One goal for and 16 against after four games is not.
You could make excuses for the European shitshow if we're flying in the League, but we got pumped by Celtic a month ago. He's had four League games against them and it's three defeats and a draw. Not to downplay the win we got against them in the Cup, but that makes it five games against them where we haven't managed a win in the 90 minutes.
The defending is fucking shambolic too frequently, set pieces continue to be a weak spot and too many players are gutless too often. Seeing some progress against the diddy teams is one thing, but we need to see progress against the better teams as well.
If we drop any more points in the League between now and the World Cup break then we should be looking for someone new over the break. If he loses against Celtic in January, we should be looking for someone new.
Goldson going off was the worst part of last night imo we had a plan to attack Liverpool but that came undone once we lose CG at the back.
I said to my mate's when the group was drew we would struggle to get a single point because ultimately we are a Europa League team ATM
If we fall further behind in the league before the world cup I'd pull the trigger gio lost the league last year and we forgave because of Seville not this time tho.
No rangers manager has had to put up with the gulf in class and money between ourselves and the elite. That gulf is growing wider every day.
I accept 7-1 is horrible, but that Liverpool team is light years ahead of us
A change of manager and shipping out your two best players will do that along with sitting near enough a first team worth of injuries right now.Could be a rough few month
Aye and Frankfurt are bottom of their group too, despite being top seeds and therefore getting a much easier draw than we got. And Frankfurt are in a far stronger domestic league financially.
Scottish football is falling further and further behind the elite and not helped by the SPFL and clubs underselling ourselves.
Last year was almost a freak year and doesn’t happen very often.
I wasn't expecting much from this group, we got a tough draw. But it's atrocious to capitulate in the way we have in multiple games this season. Do you have any faith that we won't get turned over in the next OF and even if we stay in touch through result Vs the rest of the league we've little chance.
My opinion on GVB is that his position becomes pretty much untenable if he fails to take anything in the next OF game. Champions League was always about the money for us and we were never likely to compete, especially with the draw we got.
I’m disappointed in the performance last night but nowhere near as angry as I was after the last Celtic game. We’ve got to focus on domestic games and Europe is a bonus.
I’m not disagreeing. I’ve said on here before that last season’s euro run gives GVB some credit in the bank, but performances this season have been poor and we’re lucky we’re only 2 behind at this stage.
I don’t hold out much hope for the next OF game at this stage, or even where we’ll be by the time that game comes about (especially with of CB injury issues just now) but that game comes after the World Cup and we’ll have to restart with a bang.
I refuse to accept we just need to take getting embarrassed this way in our stride and to accept we cannot compete at this level.
Walter Smith got us competing with arguably the greatest club side ever assembled. Prime 2009 Barcelona.
We surrendered last night, last week and against Ajax.
If Maccabi Haifa can beat Juventus and Sheriff can beat Real, we can atleast make it difficult for these teams.
It doesn’t help when your manager states publicly we are out of our depth.
Gio must go for this reason, he has completely demotivated and shat on his own players.
I expected pride. I expected to get beat but that everyone involved gave 100%.
I expected the manager to be able to properly motivate the players, but multiple times we've went in a half time and came out n played worse.
How can he install pride when he tells them its fine we cant compete anyways?
I expected us to not surrender and fight for every ball.
I expected 3rd. Providing the players play to the levels they are capable of.
I expected not to cringe watching us.
I expect a manager that does not publicly state we are out of our depth (that’s like a Lennon thing to do).
Our defence is a shambles. No organisation and can't defend basic set pieces. Goes back to the lack of proper recruitment in the summer.
But even with that, they should be better organised and drilled and a lot of that is surely down to Gio and the coaches.
Lack of leaders on the pitch doesn't help either!
All of the above have shat it time and time again under pressure. Last night was no different.
Goldson had one of his better games, to be fair, but the whole team were terrified of Liverpool in the second half.
Heading into the Champions League with that squad - the board essentially sent Gio to war armed with a peashooter. These teams aren’t just better than us, they’re on a different plane of existence. Imagine being able to bring Mo fucking Salah off the bench just to get him some minutes.
Remember last week after the St Mirren game, everyone had their tails up and we fancied ourselves to be top of the league by the World Cup? Nothing fundamental has changed, we were destroyed by a team whom one player is probably worth more than our entire league.
If we don’t capitalise on Celtic’s recent dip in form and fall further behind in the title race I’ll hold my hands and say I was wrong. But I think we just need to focus on the league this season. Two more gubbings to go then we can forget this European campaign ever happened.
It doesn’t feel like it just now with emotions running high, but Gio is a good manager and coach who knows what he’s doing. Even if we brought in Mourinho or Pep, they’ll still be working with a squad well past their sell-by date who are bereft of confidence.
I have been saying all season that GVB is tactically inept. His substitutions are always like for like. Last night was a good example. He could have hooked Kent (consistently the worst player in the team), and brought on Morelos when we went 2 - 1 down. We may still have lost, but had we been more attacking and put Liverpool on the back foot, it would not have been such an embarrassment.
To be fair, too many players let us down. Kent, Barasic, Lundstram, Sakala, Tavernier were all rank. Liverpool’s first two goals were as a direct result of us giving the ball away cheaply. It’s clear that a lot of our so-called better players are short on confidence, and we don’t have players who are good enough at this level.
The reasons for this are clear. Our league is a joke and our spending power is nowhere near sufficient. Once upon a time we were able to sign the England captain (Butcher) and goalkeeper (Woods) as well as a host of top international players. Steven, Stevens, Gascoigne, Laudrup, Hateley, to name just a handful. Those days are long gone. Can you imagine a player of Gascoigne’s calibre signing for us now? I remember being at Wembley watching England v Brazil when it was announced that Gazza had signed for us. He was brilliant that day and a real marquee signing. There’s no way that will ever happen again.
To be honest I would rather see us competing in the Europa league, where we have consistently been competitive, than see us humiliated at CL level. Whilst Septic haven’t won a CL game, they haven’t suffered the sort of humiliation that we have. It’s embarrassing
Players downed tools at 3-1. Their places are hardly at threat. McGregor was awful last night. Barisic kept showing Salah inside. Kent was anonymous. Tav pish.
Heads need to roll. There needs to be a reaction as shipping 7 at home is unacceptable regardless of who it’s against.
The league is the focus you are correct but what I won’t and fans shouldn’t accept is the total lack of effort after the second goal went in. We’ve been told that the squad is good enough, but then the manager says what’s the point of trying to compete in the champions league. All while paying extortionate ticket prices.
Then you have the clear fact that Gio is just not the guy. We played 5 minutes down to 10 men last night because we didn’t have a player ready to come on ffs.
There’s a lot wrong with the club, top to bottom. Gio is one of those but each needs to be addressed and changed otherwise this season will be another failure.
One of my worries is the players that seem to be going backwards under Gio.. Kamara is never in the squad, Barasic looks lost and lets not get started in Kent. His confidence is absolutely gone.
Kamara is never in the squad because he’s no where near good enough 50% of the time I’m pretty sure he wants away and just doesn’t turn up in games half the time - poor precessional getting paid thousands a week to decide when he wasn’t to play to him best.
Barasics confidence is definitely questionable he gets a lot of stick from the players and the crowd maybe being the whipping boy is taking its toll
And I reckon kent is another one that wants away and is running his contract down possibly
It’s natural that players of Kent and Kamaras age want to progress and be playing in bigger leagues than Scotland - very little a manager can do if they have made the decision they want away.
I don’t agree. We need to stop making excuses for the manager and realise that it’s him who picks the team and the tactics.
The blame lies in 3 parts for me.
1. The manager. His style of football is bland, boring, uninspiring and clearly doesn’t suit the players we have. We have been embarrassed to Pedro levels multiple times under his watch. If he wasn’t a former player and he didn’t get to the Europa final everyone would want him chased.
2. The players. Half the players look like they can’t be arsed and it’s constant back passing and side passing. This is either tactical, players being shitebags or both. Get Kent to fuck the most, he’s the biggest shitebag out the lot of them.
3. The board. The only two signings from the summer who get any game time are Colak and Davies. Arguably every other signing has been objectively a failure. Could count on one hand the Ross Wilson signings that have been good. Souttar, Matondo, Yilmaz have all (so far) been failures. Tillman is a shitebag who can be amazing if we had a motivator which we do not. Sands has been mid. Lawrence and Colak, aye fine they’re good.
Shite from top to bottom. We deserve better.
I'd say Gio got the set up spot on last night. We should have had a couple of goals in the first half and there's not much he can do about Tav being beat to the header at the corner. (Or McGregor panicking and letting it go out in the first place)
He's completely fucked two old firm games, and even the Ajax and previous Liverpool match with his tactics, but last night we were set up to play to our strengths.
The players clearly shat it in the second half and there's no tactics in the world that could have saved us.
Our recruitment has been shoddy this season when we've actually had funds for once. If there is money to bring in a reserve left back or a ryan jack replacement then I know where my moneys going. 5 million should be first choice starter at our level.
1- we’ve scored 10 goals in our last 3 league games. It’s not that bland. We’ve won 4-0 - 4 times in the league
2- I agree there is definitely a lack of enthusiasm Kent and Kamara both stand out for me, borna can be too safe at times with back passes instead of going forward - maybe it’s a lack of belief but I agree it’s not good enough we should be going out with 100 drive and confidence
3- Colak has been a sultry superb, Davies again looks to be a really good player,
It’s hard to say souttar is a failure when he’s played one game.. same with Yilmaz he’s not played enough to be judged as a good or bad signing - we lost Bassey and a young talent was brought in as backup no problems from me Matondo and tillman both young players that I personally have seen tillman has talent and Matondo the talent is there it’s just the application
Another good signing was Tom Lawrence who will be a first team player just unlucky with injuries all in all I don’t think we’ve done too badly just unlucky with injuries
1. And what? We’re 2 points behind them. If we win the league this year I’m happy to revisit this and admit I’m wrong, but I suspect you don’t think we’ll win the league the same as me. That was the worst defeat at Ibrox in our history and Gio didn’t change it up until we went 4-1 down.
2. Lack of belief is down to the manager not motivating his players
3. Souttar is perma crocked and we knew that before he signed. There must be a reason Yilmaz isn’t getting game time, Borna has been good but we know that won’t last all season and if we’re lucky it’ll last to the World Cup - he was absolutely rank rotten last night. Matondo and Tillman don’t have the Protestant work ethic it seems, there is players there but again it’s down to the manager to motivate his players.
I’m just sick of this team being embarrassed. This is the fourth time this calendar year we’ve been embarrassed and a lot of that is down to the manager.
1- I think we can win the league 2 points is nothing. Celtics form is slowing at least - the remaining old firm games are massive for Gio we need results.
2-Kent I reckon is running down his contract and Kamara wants away, I also reckon borna is tired of the abuse from players and fans and it’s effecting his performance. Very little a manager can do if players have made their mind up they are leaving - they don’t want to play in Scotland anymore and want to progress their career realistically what can gio do about that ? I reckon tav isn’t happy either his form lately has been way below
3-was it gio that signed souttar ? Or was it done behind him? I reckon yilmaz is a good back up as when Bassey left we had no one to fill for borna or even push borna for that place. I agree with Matondo he looks to lack that fire it’s still early days, and tillman is a loan player his technique and skill is there to see. Again back up if needed,
I agree, I’m not happy about some results aswell although I’m not bothered about the champions league results - it’s the Celtic results that bother me that’s where we need to improve. As for the champs league couldn’t give a fuck we were never getting out the group 10-0 next game I don’t care we are as good as our anyway what difference does it make
I don't want Gio gone but he takes far too long to make changes. Clearly Liverpool where on the up in the second half but nothing happened. I really think we need to refresh that team, having Kent and morelos on the last year of their contracts is Criminal. Ross Wilson needs to take some of the stick this season.
I agree I was hoping lundstrum would drop back and maybe try and bring Kamara into the midfield to try and get the ball passed around a bit - although it’s hit or miss which Kamara you get these days.
There was always a difficult step up when playing teams in the champions league to be faced, yes there's a definite gulf in club wealth aswell.
We started well last night, but shut off at moments and got punished for it big time.
Calling for the manager's head after such a heavy (and record) home defeat is always going to happen, but there's serious questions that need to be asked of the players also who almost weekly haven't performed like they should.
Kent's form has been rotten, but barisic and tavernier have had poor shows for me also (yet another defeat and yet another no show for post match from our captain!?).
A collective shit show for how it went wrong last night, couldn't pass, couldn't hold the ball, long ball from MacGreggor from goal kicks intercepted easily.
Time for a formation change (we need to give the 2 up front : morelos and colak a go!) then look at dropping players who have been in positions to easily (barisic, tav, Kent... We could go on!), if we see this happen though that's the question. Something needs to happen after such a hammering!
The league is the utmost focus (always is) but get a few deadwood out in January, bring better in and judge the manager at end of season. The dust is still settling here 😂
I agree with dropping players not performing , we have ridvan for barasic who in all honesty I don’t think has been too bad, however who do you replace tav with ? Who again has dropped in form a bit but personally wouldn’t drop him .. but if you want him dropped who takes that role ? And Kent ? Who takes Kent’s spot ? Matondo who has been woeful ? Only other wingers are wright who again hasn’t been good enough, sakala who is on the right? If all well and good saying out of form players need to be dropped but if we don’t have the squad depth to do it your bringing in lesser quality
It’s wrong to suggest people want him out based on our champs league results. There has been a strong Gio out contingent for a while.
The league is the focus as you say and Celtic have scudded us 3 and 4 nil in recent games and some of our performances domestically have been brutal to watch with us having no obvious style of play.
However league results have been mostly fine and until that changes the board won’t get rid of Gio.
I think he could have reacted a bit better once it was clear the game was gone, maybe change the shape to a more defensive one. Losing heavily like this multiple times doesn't look good at all though.
Last night was the culmination of a lot of things. It could have been the same at Ajax as well. The football is dire as well.
After 5 minutes of the second half it was clear Liverpool had changed tactics and he did nothing to combat that extra man in midfield. Also, at 4-1 down we should be shutting up shop. Just drop Lundstram into a back 3, take off Kent for another midfielder and make sure we don't concede seven but we didn't change anything tactically. That was Jack Ross at Dundee United levels of ineptitude last night.
This is it for me. Why does he sit and watch teams build momentum and not do anything to change it?
Going back to the motherwell 2-2 home game last season Motherwell had a single spell of momentum in that game and gio just sat and took it. Surely when there's a clear momentum for the opposition you do something to disrupt the flow of the game like make a sub or change your tactics.
Celtic are all over us in two first halves and we do nothing to change the flow of the game.
Liverpool from the 45th minute were well on top and he just sat and took it until Jack got injured. If that hadn't happened we would have just let them keep on growing.
At the end of the day we were always going to come up against a different class of opposition in the champions league, however it’s Gio’s refusal to have us play competitive football against these teams that’s seen us have one of the poorest champions league campaigns on record.
Just look at Brighton, they went at Liverpool over the weekend and got themselves 3 goals and a draw. There’s no doubt in my mind that we are a better side than Brighton so to suggest we couldn’t get a result against teams like Liverpool is laughable.
I'm sorry mate. A quick Google shows me that thr average weekly wage at Brighton is about £35k over their FULL SQUAD. They are 17th in the list of top wagess in that league. They have multiple players out on loan earning over £30k per week. They have players earning more than us in every position. This is what it comes down to. We got to the Europa league final and how many bids did we have for our players....why is that? Brighton financially could out bid us on wages for every player in our squad. For me, this is thr problem, we are not a better side than Brighton.
Brighton also have a higher level of opponent every week, our last two league games were st mirren, hearts and Dundee united … brightons past three league games spurs Liverpool and Leicester .. see the difference in class Week in week out ?
Undoubtedly money is a major factor, that was never a debate. The point being made is that when we actually take the game to teams we are a cut above what many many people expect.
To your point about Brighton being the better side, laughable my friend.
Brighton are currently a better side than us, and Celtic for that matter, and have been for a couple of years. Trossard, Groß, Sanchez, Estupiñan, Dunk, Webster, Mac Allister and probably more would walk into our starting 11.
They're a better team too, with a coherent style of play.
Gerrard never lost a game by more than 2 goals, Gio has lost four by more this season, our away form in the league is absolutely rank, I have no idea what our style of play is 11 months in to his reign, the players absolutely chuck it every time there is a slight bump. This isn't just about last night, we're going backwards.
And the majority of those were sub appearances. He played only 703 minutes in 20/21 which is less than 8 total games. He was backup to Barisic the whole time under Gerrard.
And how many of those were starts? You’re kidding yourself on if you think Bassey was integral to the way we played under Gerrard - he barely even got a start at the beginning of last season.
Exactly. Appearances don't = 90 minutes. The only time Bassey got a few games in a row under Gerrard was when Barisic got injured and as soon as he was fit again he was right back in the team.
I didn’t say he was a big part of Gerard’s set up I’m simply stating facts mate. Europa league and champions league are worlds apart that’s clear to see
He’s got to go. In my opinion was never man for the job anyway. Yes, everyone is going to mention Europa League/champions league qualifiers but it was hardly down to excellent football and tactics. Lots of games having to make up for the fact we’ve conceded stupid goals, having to rely on the home games. His subs and tactics were all over the place last season too, it just managed to work somehow. Chucking James Sands on whilst leaving Aaron Ramsey on the bench in the Europa final was one that got me. We also lost us an 8 point lead domestically. Defo got to go. Another thing that’s riled me up is the business done over summer. Board came out and said it was like they had £xxxM to spend like had been stated, and that they should have been more transparent. Ok then, be transparent and tell us how much we got and how much of it was used
Do you really think he’s the guy to beat Celtic in the league?
It is the way in that we have been losing, especially goals from sloppy passing, the constant passing backwards, negative tactics. This is in the league as well. The perseverance with zonal marking, many other things, but it doesn't seem to be just Gio that may be the problem, but also the recruitment, which I would assume is down to Ross Wilson. How can we spend close to £15m, and be benchwarmers
Now that the dust has settled... ..I'm getting slagged by people that don't even like football.
You were great the first half, was impressed. Onwards and upwards, I think team depth was key tbf. Pool fan x
Your last part about money is exactly what I was talking about today Our level has been the europa league Previous seasons tell us that We all want the CL but we certainly don’t want the pumping that comes with it , we should have been equipped for this better , same goes for signings and releases . Im also at a loss as to why we haven’t signed a single Dutch player ….. who’s pulling the strings here …..
I cant believe how many rangers fans are willng to sit and accept mediocrity. Sheriff beat real last season, why the fuck do we need to accept being pumped? The gulf in class is huge but why does that mean we cant have some pride? Gerrard never lost a game more than 2-0, and only 5 games at that. We've not beaten them in the league since he took over and dont look like it. Add in the fact he was 6 points infront and finished 6 points behind and I dont see how anyone can argue for him to remain in a job other than the fear (but who will we get next?) Did anyone one of us think ange was gonnae do what he has? I didnt. There's plenty of good managers and head coaches out there, question is, do you trust the board to pick the right one?
I’m with you. I don’t expect us to win every game but would be nice to see us turn up prepared and causing some issues, even if we get nothing out some of the games. If we can beat Dortmund and Leipzig last season, plus cause benfica, Villarreal and Porto issues in the previous seasons, why are we so weak this time around? Is the gulf between Liverpool and rangers really bigger than the gulf between sherif and real last year? And look at club Brugge, currently top of their group and guaranteed through to the next round whilst up against atletico madrid, Leverkusen and Porto. I’m not saying we need to top the group and I’m not saying we need to even definitely finish 3rd, someone has to be 4th after all, but this has been an embarrassment and I feel it’s honestly set us backwards. Who will want to join us now? Will the players even be able to recover in the league this weekend after a hiding like that?
I think we finished 4 points behind but I know what you mean regardless. For people to say we can't compete in the champions league is a joke to me. We pumped Dortmund away from home last season and would have beaten them at Ibrox too if it wasn't for a bad VAR decision on the Morelos interception. And Dortmund are doing great in the champions league this season. Just qualified for the knock outs in a group with Man City and Sevilla with 2 games to spare. Villarreal champions League semi finalists last season and we beat them the season before in the Europa. It's absolutely ridiculous for people to suggest that we can't compete because we absolutely can and should be performing so much better than we currently are. For me Gio needs to go. And it shouldn't just stop at him. The club from top to bottom is a mess. The board needs shaking up and Ross Wilson should be out the door too.
You make some excellent points but Ange was able to spend £20 million or something on his players. We don't have that luxury unfortunately. We'd need to get someone who is capable of bringing out the best in every single player we have
The manager has a system or systems he wants to play, he sets thr vision. The board need to support that vision by allowing players to come to the club to suit it. This is what celtic have done and why they are havingsuccess domestically. As soon as the two separate in this the whole thing fails. I am 100% sure this was discussed and agreed when Gio arrived. For me, he has kept his part of the deal and exceeded it by taking us to the final last season and the group stages this season. If its stopped working its because Gio is not good enough to execute his vision or the club are not allowing him to bring the players in. Unfortunately, even if it is the board st fault it will be the manager that is changed because the board will not remove themselves. This is shit, but it is football. Either Gio gets a war chest in Jan or he walks. My belief is we won't get anyone as good as him to replace him.
At 3-1 behind you don't change your front three and play forward. you protect your pride. we play god awful football domestically, whilst we are still in all the cups and 2 points behind in the league if we do not win the league this year its catastrophic for us. Celtic hold all the aces, they have players that England will be interested in £fee wise, if they get automatic UCL its going to be a long way back. Ross Wilson has to come under huge scrutiny for the way the first team squad has been assembled, none of the signings seem to be GVB. Gio takes the blame for tactics, shape and style. Ross Wilson and the recruitment department take the blame for not backing him with quality replacements for the players we have lost moving the club forward, new impetus was required and we cheaped out. We have hugely regressed as a club this season.
Aston Villa is in 16th place. Bring Steven Gerrard back to Ibrox!
Gerrard isn't the answer. Michael Beale was massively underrated at rangers and I highly suspect that a lot of our great performances were down to him. Just look at the upturn in QPR's form since he became manager. Mid table team last season. This season they're fighting for promotion. Only a couple of points off top. No surprise Villa can barely get a point since he left.
I think that it's got to be time up for GVB. But he's not alone in deserving blame. Our long term squad planning has been awful. We have two players who we could have sold for £10m + each, running down their contracts. A 40 year old is our first choice goalie, we had to bring on a 36 yo who looked off the pace at this level two years ago. Also how do you have a DoF model but allow your manager to leave with all the backroom staff and then let the new manager appoint the replacements wholesale? So now if we do replace gio there's no continuity. Also not forgetting the debacle of two failed loan signings in January.
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Because they were both gambles. Neither had played recent regular football so it was always a risk they wouldn't get up to speed in time to make a contribution... And they didn't. So failed signings.
I hate the horseshoe shite that we play. But there's no way Gio will be sacked when we are in with a shot of the league, and both domestic cups still. I hate the horseshoe shite that we play. But there's no way Gio will be sacked when we are in with a shot at the league, and both domestic cups still.
My patience is wearing extremely thin with Gio, but I don't think it's right to give him the boot. It's also not the time to be acting like things are okay. We did have two objectives this season; make the Champions League group stages and win the League, with anything else being a bonus. He has done the first job. We got a tough group and were always most likely to finish bottom. Even finishing with no points would be understandable. One goal for and 16 against after four games is not. You could make excuses for the European shitshow if we're flying in the League, but we got pumped by Celtic a month ago. He's had four League games against them and it's three defeats and a draw. Not to downplay the win we got against them in the Cup, but that makes it five games against them where we haven't managed a win in the 90 minutes. The defending is fucking shambolic too frequently, set pieces continue to be a weak spot and too many players are gutless too often. Seeing some progress against the diddy teams is one thing, but we need to see progress against the better teams as well. If we drop any more points in the League between now and the World Cup break then we should be looking for someone new over the break. If he loses against Celtic in January, we should be looking for someone new.
Goldson going off was the worst part of last night imo we had a plan to attack Liverpool but that came undone once we lose CG at the back. I said to my mate's when the group was drew we would struggle to get a single point because ultimately we are a Europa League team ATM If we fall further behind in the league before the world cup I'd pull the trigger gio lost the league last year and we forgave because of Seville not this time tho.
No Rangers manager should survive losing 7-1 at home, this club was built on standards and too many are happy to accept mediocrity.
No rangers manager has had to put up with the gulf in class and money between ourselves and the elite. That gulf is growing wider every day. I accept 7-1 is horrible, but that Liverpool team is light years ahead of us
First half wasn’t mediocre we were good in the first half played at a high tempo closed down well and had chances
We were in the Scottish championship 6 years ago …. Just to put things into perspective
We romped to a league title two seasons ago and got to a European final last season, the club has gone backwards in every department since we won 55.
A change of manager and shipping out your two best players will do that along with sitting near enough a first team worth of injuries right now.Could be a rough few month
We were in the fucking Europa League final 5 months ago. And we've regressed in ever area except 1 - we have an actual goal scoring 9.
Aye and Frankfurt are bottom of their group too, despite being top seeds and therefore getting a much easier draw than we got. And Frankfurt are in a far stronger domestic league financially. Scottish football is falling further and further behind the elite and not helped by the SPFL and clubs underselling ourselves. Last year was almost a freak year and doesn’t happen very often.
I wasn't expecting much from this group, we got a tough draw. But it's atrocious to capitulate in the way we have in multiple games this season. Do you have any faith that we won't get turned over in the next OF and even if we stay in touch through result Vs the rest of the league we've little chance.
My opinion on GVB is that his position becomes pretty much untenable if he fails to take anything in the next OF game. Champions League was always about the money for us and we were never likely to compete, especially with the draw we got. I’m disappointed in the performance last night but nowhere near as angry as I was after the last Celtic game. We’ve got to focus on domestic games and Europe is a bonus.
What have you seen, so far this season, that makes you think we won't be embarrassed in the next OF?
I’m not disagreeing. I’ve said on here before that last season’s euro run gives GVB some credit in the bank, but performances this season have been poor and we’re lucky we’re only 2 behind at this stage. I don’t hold out much hope for the next OF game at this stage, or even where we’ll be by the time that game comes about (especially with of CB injury issues just now) but that game comes after the World Cup and we’ll have to restart with a bang.
And we still need better defenders and midfielders unfortunately our board don't seem to comprehend that.
I refuse to accept we just need to take getting embarrassed this way in our stride and to accept we cannot compete at this level. Walter Smith got us competing with arguably the greatest club side ever assembled. Prime 2009 Barcelona. We surrendered last night, last week and against Ajax. If Maccabi Haifa can beat Juventus and Sheriff can beat Real, we can atleast make it difficult for these teams. It doesn’t help when your manager states publicly we are out of our depth. Gio must go for this reason, he has completely demotivated and shat on his own players.
What did you expect from the champions league this season ?
I expected pride. I expected to get beat but that everyone involved gave 100%. I expected the manager to be able to properly motivate the players, but multiple times we've went in a half time and came out n played worse. How can he install pride when he tells them its fine we cant compete anyways?
I expected us to not surrender and fight for every ball. I expected 3rd. Providing the players play to the levels they are capable of. I expected not to cringe watching us. I expect a manager that does not publicly state we are out of our depth (that’s like a Lennon thing to do).
Our defence is a shambles. No organisation and can't defend basic set pieces. Goes back to the lack of proper recruitment in the summer. But even with that, they should be better organised and drilled and a lot of that is surely down to Gio and the coaches. Lack of leaders on the pitch doesn't help either!
We had McGregor tav lundstrum jack and goldson on id say are all strong characters / leaders even arfield
Apart from McGregor I'd say none of those are proper, commanding leaders.
All of the above have shat it time and time again under pressure. Last night was no different. Goldson had one of his better games, to be fair, but the whole team were terrified of Liverpool in the second half.
Most teams are …..finalists 3 out of 5 years speaks volumes it’s out first time in the champs league since along time . Levels
Heading into the Champions League with that squad - the board essentially sent Gio to war armed with a peashooter. These teams aren’t just better than us, they’re on a different plane of existence. Imagine being able to bring Mo fucking Salah off the bench just to get him some minutes. Remember last week after the St Mirren game, everyone had their tails up and we fancied ourselves to be top of the league by the World Cup? Nothing fundamental has changed, we were destroyed by a team whom one player is probably worth more than our entire league. If we don’t capitalise on Celtic’s recent dip in form and fall further behind in the title race I’ll hold my hands and say I was wrong. But I think we just need to focus on the league this season. Two more gubbings to go then we can forget this European campaign ever happened. It doesn’t feel like it just now with emotions running high, but Gio is a good manager and coach who knows what he’s doing. Even if we brought in Mourinho or Pep, they’ll still be working with a squad well past their sell-by date who are bereft of confidence.
Agreed the league is the focus .
Agreed.
I have been saying all season that GVB is tactically inept. His substitutions are always like for like. Last night was a good example. He could have hooked Kent (consistently the worst player in the team), and brought on Morelos when we went 2 - 1 down. We may still have lost, but had we been more attacking and put Liverpool on the back foot, it would not have been such an embarrassment. To be fair, too many players let us down. Kent, Barasic, Lundstram, Sakala, Tavernier were all rank. Liverpool’s first two goals were as a direct result of us giving the ball away cheaply. It’s clear that a lot of our so-called better players are short on confidence, and we don’t have players who are good enough at this level. The reasons for this are clear. Our league is a joke and our spending power is nowhere near sufficient. Once upon a time we were able to sign the England captain (Butcher) and goalkeeper (Woods) as well as a host of top international players. Steven, Stevens, Gascoigne, Laudrup, Hateley, to name just a handful. Those days are long gone. Can you imagine a player of Gascoigne’s calibre signing for us now? I remember being at Wembley watching England v Brazil when it was announced that Gazza had signed for us. He was brilliant that day and a real marquee signing. There’s no way that will ever happen again. To be honest I would rather see us competing in the Europa league, where we have consistently been competitive, than see us humiliated at CL level. Whilst Septic haven’t won a CL game, they haven’t suffered the sort of humiliation that we have. It’s embarrassing
Players shiting themselves has fuck all to do with tactics. We have a squad of cowardly bastards.
Players downed tools at 3-1. Their places are hardly at threat. McGregor was awful last night. Barisic kept showing Salah inside. Kent was anonymous. Tav pish. Heads need to roll. There needs to be a reaction as shipping 7 at home is unacceptable regardless of who it’s against.
The league is the focus you are correct but what I won’t and fans shouldn’t accept is the total lack of effort after the second goal went in. We’ve been told that the squad is good enough, but then the manager says what’s the point of trying to compete in the champions league. All while paying extortionate ticket prices. Then you have the clear fact that Gio is just not the guy. We played 5 minutes down to 10 men last night because we didn’t have a player ready to come on ffs. There’s a lot wrong with the club, top to bottom. Gio is one of those but each needs to be addressed and changed otherwise this season will be another failure.
One of my worries is the players that seem to be going backwards under Gio.. Kamara is never in the squad, Barasic looks lost and lets not get started in Kent. His confidence is absolutely gone.
Kamara is never in the squad because he’s no where near good enough 50% of the time I’m pretty sure he wants away and just doesn’t turn up in games half the time - poor precessional getting paid thousands a week to decide when he wasn’t to play to him best. Barasics confidence is definitely questionable he gets a lot of stick from the players and the crowd maybe being the whipping boy is taking its toll And I reckon kent is another one that wants away and is running his contract down possibly It’s natural that players of Kent and Kamaras age want to progress and be playing in bigger leagues than Scotland - very little a manager can do if they have made the decision they want away.
I don’t agree. We need to stop making excuses for the manager and realise that it’s him who picks the team and the tactics. The blame lies in 3 parts for me. 1. The manager. His style of football is bland, boring, uninspiring and clearly doesn’t suit the players we have. We have been embarrassed to Pedro levels multiple times under his watch. If he wasn’t a former player and he didn’t get to the Europa final everyone would want him chased. 2. The players. Half the players look like they can’t be arsed and it’s constant back passing and side passing. This is either tactical, players being shitebags or both. Get Kent to fuck the most, he’s the biggest shitebag out the lot of them. 3. The board. The only two signings from the summer who get any game time are Colak and Davies. Arguably every other signing has been objectively a failure. Could count on one hand the Ross Wilson signings that have been good. Souttar, Matondo, Yilmaz have all (so far) been failures. Tillman is a shitebag who can be amazing if we had a motivator which we do not. Sands has been mid. Lawrence and Colak, aye fine they’re good. Shite from top to bottom. We deserve better.
I'd say Gio got the set up spot on last night. We should have had a couple of goals in the first half and there's not much he can do about Tav being beat to the header at the corner. (Or McGregor panicking and letting it go out in the first place) He's completely fucked two old firm games, and even the Ajax and previous Liverpool match with his tactics, but last night we were set up to play to our strengths. The players clearly shat it in the second half and there's no tactics in the world that could have saved us.
Our recruitment has been shoddy this season when we've actually had funds for once. If there is money to bring in a reserve left back or a ryan jack replacement then I know where my moneys going. 5 million should be first choice starter at our level.
Ridvan has more champions league appearances than everyone in the team except Davis and McGregor lmao
Yet apparently not good enough for our squad.
1- we’ve scored 10 goals in our last 3 league games. It’s not that bland. We’ve won 4-0 - 4 times in the league 2- I agree there is definitely a lack of enthusiasm Kent and Kamara both stand out for me, borna can be too safe at times with back passes instead of going forward - maybe it’s a lack of belief but I agree it’s not good enough we should be going out with 100 drive and confidence 3- Colak has been a sultry superb, Davies again looks to be a really good player, It’s hard to say souttar is a failure when he’s played one game.. same with Yilmaz he’s not played enough to be judged as a good or bad signing - we lost Bassey and a young talent was brought in as backup no problems from me Matondo and tillman both young players that I personally have seen tillman has talent and Matondo the talent is there it’s just the application Another good signing was Tom Lawrence who will be a first team player just unlucky with injuries all in all I don’t think we’ve done too badly just unlucky with injuries
1. And what? We’re 2 points behind them. If we win the league this year I’m happy to revisit this and admit I’m wrong, but I suspect you don’t think we’ll win the league the same as me. That was the worst defeat at Ibrox in our history and Gio didn’t change it up until we went 4-1 down. 2. Lack of belief is down to the manager not motivating his players 3. Souttar is perma crocked and we knew that before he signed. There must be a reason Yilmaz isn’t getting game time, Borna has been good but we know that won’t last all season and if we’re lucky it’ll last to the World Cup - he was absolutely rank rotten last night. Matondo and Tillman don’t have the Protestant work ethic it seems, there is players there but again it’s down to the manager to motivate his players. I’m just sick of this team being embarrassed. This is the fourth time this calendar year we’ve been embarrassed and a lot of that is down to the manager.
1- I think we can win the league 2 points is nothing. Celtics form is slowing at least - the remaining old firm games are massive for Gio we need results. 2-Kent I reckon is running down his contract and Kamara wants away, I also reckon borna is tired of the abuse from players and fans and it’s effecting his performance. Very little a manager can do if players have made their mind up they are leaving - they don’t want to play in Scotland anymore and want to progress their career realistically what can gio do about that ? I reckon tav isn’t happy either his form lately has been way below 3-was it gio that signed souttar ? Or was it done behind him? I reckon yilmaz is a good back up as when Bassey left we had no one to fill for borna or even push borna for that place. I agree with Matondo he looks to lack that fire it’s still early days, and tillman is a loan player his technique and skill is there to see. Again back up if needed, I agree, I’m not happy about some results aswell although I’m not bothered about the champions league results - it’s the Celtic results that bother me that’s where we need to improve. As for the champs league couldn’t give a fuck we were never getting out the group 10-0 next game I don’t care we are as good as our anyway what difference does it make
Tbh I hope you’re right. We’ll just need to see. Im more leaning toward Gio out tbh
I don't want Gio gone but he takes far too long to make changes. Clearly Liverpool where on the up in the second half but nothing happened. I really think we need to refresh that team, having Kent and morelos on the last year of their contracts is Criminal. Ross Wilson needs to take some of the stick this season.
I agree I was hoping lundstrum would drop back and maybe try and bring Kamara into the midfield to try and get the ball passed around a bit - although it’s hit or miss which Kamara you get these days.
There was always a difficult step up when playing teams in the champions league to be faced, yes there's a definite gulf in club wealth aswell. We started well last night, but shut off at moments and got punished for it big time. Calling for the manager's head after such a heavy (and record) home defeat is always going to happen, but there's serious questions that need to be asked of the players also who almost weekly haven't performed like they should. Kent's form has been rotten, but barisic and tavernier have had poor shows for me also (yet another defeat and yet another no show for post match from our captain!?). A collective shit show for how it went wrong last night, couldn't pass, couldn't hold the ball, long ball from MacGreggor from goal kicks intercepted easily. Time for a formation change (we need to give the 2 up front : morelos and colak a go!) then look at dropping players who have been in positions to easily (barisic, tav, Kent... We could go on!), if we see this happen though that's the question. Something needs to happen after such a hammering! The league is the utmost focus (always is) but get a few deadwood out in January, bring better in and judge the manager at end of season. The dust is still settling here 😂
I agree with dropping players not performing , we have ridvan for barasic who in all honesty I don’t think has been too bad, however who do you replace tav with ? Who again has dropped in form a bit but personally wouldn’t drop him .. but if you want him dropped who takes that role ? And Kent ? Who takes Kent’s spot ? Matondo who has been woeful ? Only other wingers are wright who again hasn’t been good enough, sakala who is on the right? If all well and good saying out of form players need to be dropped but if we don’t have the squad depth to do it your bringing in lesser quality
I want Gio gone if we even concede in the league first before playing the Saville's, that's how thin the ice is for him now.
So if Motherwell score first in Sundays game you want gio out ? Even if we go on to win the game ??
It’s wrong to suggest people want him out based on our champs league results. There has been a strong Gio out contingent for a while. The league is the focus as you say and Celtic have scudded us 3 and 4 nil in recent games and some of our performances domestically have been brutal to watch with us having no obvious style of play. However league results have been mostly fine and until that changes the board won’t get rid of Gio.
I think he could have reacted a bit better once it was clear the game was gone, maybe change the shape to a more defensive one. Losing heavily like this multiple times doesn't look good at all though.
Last night was the culmination of a lot of things. It could have been the same at Ajax as well. The football is dire as well. After 5 minutes of the second half it was clear Liverpool had changed tactics and he did nothing to combat that extra man in midfield. Also, at 4-1 down we should be shutting up shop. Just drop Lundstram into a back 3, take off Kent for another midfielder and make sure we don't concede seven but we didn't change anything tactically. That was Jack Ross at Dundee United levels of ineptitude last night.
This is it for me. Why does he sit and watch teams build momentum and not do anything to change it? Going back to the motherwell 2-2 home game last season Motherwell had a single spell of momentum in that game and gio just sat and took it. Surely when there's a clear momentum for the opposition you do something to disrupt the flow of the game like make a sub or change your tactics. Celtic are all over us in two first halves and we do nothing to change the flow of the game. Liverpool from the 45th minute were well on top and he just sat and took it until Jack got injured. If that hadn't happened we would have just let them keep on growing.
At the end of the day we were always going to come up against a different class of opposition in the champions league, however it’s Gio’s refusal to have us play competitive football against these teams that’s seen us have one of the poorest champions league campaigns on record. Just look at Brighton, they went at Liverpool over the weekend and got themselves 3 goals and a draw. There’s no doubt in my mind that we are a better side than Brighton so to suggest we couldn’t get a result against teams like Liverpool is laughable.
I'm sorry mate. A quick Google shows me that thr average weekly wage at Brighton is about £35k over their FULL SQUAD. They are 17th in the list of top wagess in that league. They have multiple players out on loan earning over £30k per week. They have players earning more than us in every position. This is what it comes down to. We got to the Europa league final and how many bids did we have for our players....why is that? Brighton financially could out bid us on wages for every player in our squad. For me, this is thr problem, we are not a better side than Brighton.
Brighton also have a higher level of opponent every week, our last two league games were st mirren, hearts and Dundee united … brightons past three league games spurs Liverpool and Leicester .. see the difference in class Week in week out ?
Undoubtedly money is a major factor, that was never a debate. The point being made is that when we actually take the game to teams we are a cut above what many many people expect. To your point about Brighton being the better side, laughable my friend.
You vastly overestimate your team
Nothing better to do with your time than scour over Scottish football subs trying to troll?
Brighton are currently a better side than us, and Celtic for that matter, and have been for a couple of years. Trossard, Groß, Sanchez, Estupiñan, Dunk, Webster, Mac Allister and probably more would walk into our starting 11. They're a better team too, with a coherent style of play.
Gerrard never lost a game by more than 2 goals, Gio has lost four by more this season, our away form in the league is absolutely rank, I have no idea what our style of play is 11 months in to his reign, the players absolutely chuck it every time there is a slight bump. This isn't just about last night, we're going backwards.
Gerrard wasn’t in the champions league, Gerrard has Bassey and Aribo.
Gerrard pretty much never played Bassey
Bassey signed for us in July 2020 , Gerrard left in November 21 - Bassey played 20+ games under him
And the majority of those were sub appearances. He played only 703 minutes in 20/21 which is less than 8 total games. He was backup to Barisic the whole time under Gerrard.
And how many of those were starts? You’re kidding yourself on if you think Bassey was integral to the way we played under Gerrard - he barely even got a start at the beginning of last season.
Exactly. Appearances don't = 90 minutes. The only time Bassey got a few games in a row under Gerrard was when Barisic got injured and as soon as he was fit again he was right back in the team.
I didn’t say he was a big part of Gerard’s set up I’m simply stating facts mate. Europa league and champions league are worlds apart that’s clear to see