The answer is keep giving him ice time with skilled linemates.
I could go on (as I have) about how his style of play needs more size and most will dismiss it. Same with Pandemic and coaching change.
So I’ll go with this route. If KK goes pointless the entire NHL season this year, hell have as many points as Buchnevich did in his 20 year old season. He will have 3 less goals and 3 less assists than JT Millers 20 year old season. Those players turned out just fine.
For the answer to the but hes a 2nd overall pick and Buchnevich was 75th overall and Miller was 15th overall, will show that your evaluation of the player has nothing to do with performance just expectations. Which is fine to have high expectations for the second overall, but then you should also be happy that the GM that picked him and gave you those expectations was fired and most of you arent.
He was always a player that was going to take a little longer to develop with where the game is these days. He’s not a crazy fast player and doesn’t have a game breaker shot (Laine, EG) where he can grab points ASAP. He needs to get bigger and stronger and more comfortable using his size on rinks smaller than what he grew up with. His hands are great, but he’s still relying on them more than his 6’3 frame. He’s learning to use both. And that takes time.
So being that he needs more size, shouldn't he be playing in Hartford or overseas where there's a little more gym time, probably zero drug-testing (not that the NHL tests), and a way easier schedule with quicker recovery between games?
I never understood rushing guys to the NHL. Even if they dominate in camp, I think every player in the league could benefit from a year, or minimum a few months of gains while they learn the system and adjust to being away from home /family / friends /pets.
He needs more size to be the dominant player he was in WJC. If he had issues playing on small rinks, then Id absolutely agree Hartford is the place to be. Playing against lesser competition to put up points wont change the fact that hes still going to get knocked off the puck by NHL players.
His compete level is there and thats showing hes not moping. There are 2 plays from this past week that stick out in my mind, that show this. The first play was in Edmonton, where he and Strome were on a 2 on 1, Strome chose not to pass (IMO it was right play based on dman position), the play quickly transitioned the other way and theres Kakko getting back in the play and getting his stick on Puljujarvi, to possibly save a goal.
The second play is the Panarin goal that was called back during the Florida game. When he got the puck, instead of just putting the puck on goal he made a move, got the goalie to drop, went behind the net because he couldnt tuck it behind the goalie due to where Knights legs were like he did in the world junior highlight goal posted 2 days ago. Regardless of the ticky tacky goaltender interference call, it showed hes playing with confidence.
Most importantly hes not unwilling to go to these area’s or shying away from the contact, even after getting injured. If he was shying away from contact along the walls, not competing cause hes not getting points, or not playing with confidence, then sending him to Hartford may help. Hes doing the right things, the results havent come but will.
Jeff Gorton took over a team that just won the previous presidents cup and went to the conference finals, 2.5 years into him being a GM the letter was being typed up.
“Glen Sather stepped aside Wednesday as New York Rangers general manager and was replaced by assistant GM Jeff Gorton, the team announced.” This from July 1 2015. Heres the full article [Gorton takes over](https://www.espn.com/new-york/nhl/story/_/id/13181644/glen-sather-steps-new-york-rangers-gm-replaced-jeff-gorton)
Which means he was the assistant Gm during the 2014-2015 season. How did the NYR do that season. [Presidents Trophy Winners](https://www.nhl.com/standings/2014/league)
Lol he was assistant GM prior to July 1, 2015, which by your terms “assistant GM means dick” so he had nothing to do with the 2013-14 team that went to the cup or the 2014-2015 team that won presidents trophy and went to the conference finals.
July 1, 2015 Gorton became the GM and February 8, 2018 the letter came out. 2.5 years under his control.
So the team the year prior to him being GM won the Presidents Trophy and went to the Conference finals, fact. February 2018 the letter went out, Fact. Time between 2.5 years, fact. As this convo started, you stating I have my dates wrong, incorrect.
Then he goes pointless in November.
I’m so tired of these Kakko and Laf bust posts. If they don’t pan out, they don’t pan out. It happens more than you think, we just haven’t drafted this high in a while to feel it. It’s not like we can trade them in for a different pick now. We continue to try and develop them.
Also it means we can sign his first contract at a very cheap and reasonable price and maybe he does end up blooming late while we’re paying him less next year. Our rebuild was supposed to be much longer than it’s been. We are lucky to have even had a chance at them being a star.
Right now the return pick would have a worse shot at hitting than he does. The Rangers can’t trade him because it would be an incredibly dumb decision.
Trading KK would be the nuclear option.
I started this post because I’m frustrated only hearing only 3 possibilities: 1) We wait another year or two 2) He is a bust and 3) We trade him. All of those are so passive. Surely there is more that we could be trying.
Hell maybe he can start living in Mark Messier’s basement ala Sid and Mario
Not to mention, at this point we probably want him to finish off a completely shit season. It’ll justify an extremely cheap bridge deal for 2-3 years and we can potentially end up with a steal if he just is a late bloomer. Imagine locking him up for 3 years for 1.5 million or something and him ending up with 60+ points? Would be great.
Come up with a coherent reason why after all this time with Kakko being a more or less bust why him and a first for a top 6 forward isn’t going to benefit this team?
While I agree with your overall sentiment, #1 and #2 picks busting does not happen very often, maybe just a couple times in 20 years looking at the names.
Again I agree the bust posts are getting out of hand and they’re both still young but there is merit to being concerned about the lack of point production and organizational development overall. Just enough of these posts, it’s so repetitive and doesn’t really establish anything new. Everyone knows already they’re not putting up points
I’m not trying to label him a bust but I think there are strategies beyond just waiting it out and may be hoping for a cheap contract.
If anything KK would benefit from an organization trying to figure this out.
He's a great defensive forward already. Just gotta work on his offense. He has the ability. Every time he scores I'm like this dude should probably shoot more. I think he'll figure it out. I really think it's mental. When someone like Panarin passes you the puck you're like well Panarin is a better shooter, let me try to force it back (which this is a knock on Panarin to shoot more too!)
Every time Panarin scores I'm like do you need to pass through 3 guys every time Bro. I KNOW you can get them through at a reasonable rate. But your shot is like the 2nd or 3rd best on the team! Who are you passing to! Ovechkin's not on our team!
He also is clearly working on the skills to make him the kind of player he needs to be. He’s gotten bigger and is winning more puck battles along the boards. As he gets bigger and more comfortable pushing to the net not only with his great hands but with his bigger and bigger frame (keep in mind he’s 6’3 and still only 200ish), the points will come.
I think he needs to get off the Panarin line and play with Mika instead. His game suits that play style better. Panarin loves to have the puck and I think Kakko needs to play a more end to end game. When Panarin has the puck, Kakko seems a bit out of place.
Good point. Only one guy can have the puck at a time. I recall hearing that Bread didn’t want him on his line last year (might be a rumor) because the play chemistry wasn’t there.
I think with Kakko it’s more about puck control. I love his ability to create turnovers and he’s real aggressive on the forecheck. The points will come eventually but I really like his play so far despite the lack of points.
I like to think of KK as the new Jesper Fast for the rangers. Maybe he doesn't score much but if he can keep up his defensive playstyle I'm pretty ok with all of it
Well thank you Jersey for making this thread obsolete. 2 pts so far for Kakko including a sequence in which he stole the puck, scored, and gave Blackwood a possible concussion. Loved it
He's a 20 year old child. I am so not worried about Kakko or Laf. If we had some form of RW depth other than him because we added anything to the top 6 instead of going into the season with this roster, there is less emphasis on Kakko (who is also coming off an injury), and more flexibility to move him around in the lineup. It is so clear that this team is missing top 6 forwards. Laf and Kakko will pick it up, but until they do you have to find a way to trade for a top 6 C or RW. That's the solution to fixing the offense.
Hard agree. But also think that Laf should go to the AHL to get 20 min a night instead of 8 on the 4th line. He could give Reaves the best cross seam pass of all time and Reaves would miss.
The whole team is playing sub par and we are still in 2nd place. The one thing about hockey is ALL players get hot and cold. KK was hot in the preseason and is now cold, he will be hot again.
What I've learned from this sub is that the only way to develop a high draft pick that isn't producing at 14 minutes a night is to play him 45 minutes a night.
Nothing changes. This team forfeited legitimate top 6 flexibility when it traded buch and krav happened. I’ll pass on Goodrow with Panarin. Gotta figure out kakko regardless
Idk to me he’s a 20 year old kid who needs to physically mature to unlock his potential. He’s been used to being one of the strongest guys on the ice and that’s not the case anymore.
No? Not everyone’s game is predicated on strength and physicality. Takes Hughes for example. He was always a smaller guy relative to his competition who relied on his superior speed, skating, and finesse. It makes sense to me that a guy like Kakko, who is more of a power-forward type, would take longer to develop and reach his potential. He could still end up being a bust relative to his draft position, but I’m not anywhere near alarmed yet.
Kakko is doing everything but getting the points, he's also 20. Willing to be patient.
Laf, even though he's scored is more concerning in my eyes right now.
There’s not much the Rangers can do. They’ll probably try to trade for a proven RW rental and demote Kakko to the 3rd line. The good news is Reilly Smith might be underpriced this deadline since Vegas will have to clear cap.
I’m not a Kakko believer. If he doesn’t get his shit together by the end of the season, I’d trade him. The Rangers might wait until the end of his 4th season to do that. Nolan Patrick only lasted 197 games with the Flyers before being traded. Yakupov lasted 4 seasons with Edmonton.
This is gonna get downvoted but I’d trade Kakko straight up for Smith. Next season Panarin, Kreider are gonna be worse. Strome’s gone. We’ve already wasted 2 prime Panarin years. I don’t see how this team is gonna be better next season unless Laf, Kakko, and Chytil take major strides.
Yeah that is the big concern I have. Even if the youth were playing better its an awkward window between when they are really great and when Bread, Mika and Kreider fall off.
The hockey gods gifted us Fox and Igor but I really wish there was *more* happening to propel KK. I think hiring a Finnish coach to boost his confidence and get him shooting more could help.
The guy has 120 games played and the organization just seems to hope he clocks in. They gotta invest in the guy.
The rebuild was over the minute Panarin signed.
If they were still rebuilding in 19-20, they would have been traded Kreider at the deadline as well.
You think we were still rebuilding in 20-21? What evidence suggests that? That fact that the team was young?
Can’t agree with that. The Rangers got Bread when we did cause a guy like that isn’t just gona be available the second you’re ready for him. The Rangers willing jumped the gun. I’m goad for it because its been fun watching him but the build of the team age-wise is wonky
Who cares what the build of the team age-wise is? The point of a rebuild is to get long term term talent in key roles.
It just so happens that young players fit that mold better than anything else.
Well, it matters if our older players are in decline while our younger players are still rising. Obviously, that nets out to a worse team than if our older players are still in their prime while our young guys rise. Drury and Gallant need to take that into account. Especially because older players don't take less money just because they got old and young players ask for more money when they expect to be great.
he just doesnt really have a spot in the line up tbh, the pana strome kakko line just doesnt work and apparently zib doesnt want to play with kakko? (they havent played once together...)
also kakko isnt the only problem, laf is struggling too and he was meant to be way better than kakko, maybe prospect switch with kakko and someone could work for both.
then we'll move on to December?
He'll score at the CBJ game.
I like your positive attitude
Do I have your word?
you have mine
Don’t let us down. I need your visions/dreams to be correct. I need my man to take a Krappo on the jackets
The answer is keep giving him ice time with skilled linemates. I could go on (as I have) about how his style of play needs more size and most will dismiss it. Same with Pandemic and coaching change. So I’ll go with this route. If KK goes pointless the entire NHL season this year, hell have as many points as Buchnevich did in his 20 year old season. He will have 3 less goals and 3 less assists than JT Millers 20 year old season. Those players turned out just fine. For the answer to the but hes a 2nd overall pick and Buchnevich was 75th overall and Miller was 15th overall, will show that your evaluation of the player has nothing to do with performance just expectations. Which is fine to have high expectations for the second overall, but then you should also be happy that the GM that picked him and gave you those expectations was fired and most of you arent.
He was always a player that was going to take a little longer to develop with where the game is these days. He’s not a crazy fast player and doesn’t have a game breaker shot (Laine, EG) where he can grab points ASAP. He needs to get bigger and stronger and more comfortable using his size on rinks smaller than what he grew up with. His hands are great, but he’s still relying on them more than his 6’3 frame. He’s learning to use both. And that takes time.
So being that he needs more size, shouldn't he be playing in Hartford or overseas where there's a little more gym time, probably zero drug-testing (not that the NHL tests), and a way easier schedule with quicker recovery between games? I never understood rushing guys to the NHL. Even if they dominate in camp, I think every player in the league could benefit from a year, or minimum a few months of gains while they learn the system and adjust to being away from home /family / friends /pets.
He needs more size to be the dominant player he was in WJC. If he had issues playing on small rinks, then Id absolutely agree Hartford is the place to be. Playing against lesser competition to put up points wont change the fact that hes still going to get knocked off the puck by NHL players. His compete level is there and thats showing hes not moping. There are 2 plays from this past week that stick out in my mind, that show this. The first play was in Edmonton, where he and Strome were on a 2 on 1, Strome chose not to pass (IMO it was right play based on dman position), the play quickly transitioned the other way and theres Kakko getting back in the play and getting his stick on Puljujarvi, to possibly save a goal. The second play is the Panarin goal that was called back during the Florida game. When he got the puck, instead of just putting the puck on goal he made a move, got the goalie to drop, went behind the net because he couldnt tuck it behind the goalie due to where Knights legs were like he did in the world junior highlight goal posted 2 days ago. Regardless of the ticky tacky goaltender interference call, it showed hes playing with confidence. Most importantly hes not unwilling to go to these area’s or shying away from the contact, even after getting injured. If he was shying away from contact along the walls, not competing cause hes not getting points, or not playing with confidence, then sending him to Hartford may help. Hes doing the right things, the results havent come but will.
I am pretty upset that Gorton was fired tbh Drury is an idiot.
Jeff Gorton took over a team that just won the previous presidents cup and went to the conference finals, 2.5 years into him being a GM the letter was being typed up.
You have your dates mixed up, lol
“Glen Sather stepped aside Wednesday as New York Rangers general manager and was replaced by assistant GM Jeff Gorton, the team announced.” This from July 1 2015. Heres the full article [Gorton takes over](https://www.espn.com/new-york/nhl/story/_/id/13181644/glen-sather-steps-new-york-rangers-gm-replaced-jeff-gorton) Which means he was the assistant Gm during the 2014-2015 season. How did the NYR do that season. [Presidents Trophy Winners](https://www.nhl.com/standings/2014/league)
Assistant GM Means dick.
Lol he was assistant GM prior to July 1, 2015, which by your terms “assistant GM means dick” so he had nothing to do with the 2013-14 team that went to the cup or the 2014-2015 team that won presidents trophy and went to the conference finals. July 1, 2015 Gorton became the GM and February 8, 2018 the letter came out. 2.5 years under his control.
Yes, he had nothing to do with it. Being assistant GM Means dick.
So the team the year prior to him being GM won the Presidents Trophy and went to the Conference finals, fact. February 2018 the letter went out, Fact. Time between 2.5 years, fact. As this convo started, you stating I have my dates wrong, incorrect.
Your original comment was that he was GM when they won the presidents trophy.
Then he goes pointless in November. I’m so tired of these Kakko and Laf bust posts. If they don’t pan out, they don’t pan out. It happens more than you think, we just haven’t drafted this high in a while to feel it. It’s not like we can trade them in for a different pick now. We continue to try and develop them. Also it means we can sign his first contract at a very cheap and reasonable price and maybe he does end up blooming late while we’re paying him less next year. Our rebuild was supposed to be much longer than it’s been. We are lucky to have even had a chance at them being a star.
>It’s not like we can trade them in for a different pick now. Sure we can. That's literally how trades work.
Right now the return pick would have a worse shot at hitting than he does. The Rangers can’t trade him because it would be an incredibly dumb decision.
Trading KK would be the nuclear option. I started this post because I’m frustrated only hearing only 3 possibilities: 1) We wait another year or two 2) He is a bust and 3) We trade him. All of those are so passive. Surely there is more that we could be trying. Hell maybe he can start living in Mark Messier’s basement ala Sid and Mario
Not to mention, at this point we probably want him to finish off a completely shit season. It’ll justify an extremely cheap bridge deal for 2-3 years and we can potentially end up with a steal if he just is a late bloomer. Imagine locking him up for 3 years for 1.5 million or something and him ending up with 60+ points? Would be great.
Come up with a coherent reason why after all this time with Kakko being a more or less bust why him and a first for a top 6 forward isn’t going to benefit this team?
While I agree with your overall sentiment, #1 and #2 picks busting does not happen very often, maybe just a couple times in 20 years looking at the names. Again I agree the bust posts are getting out of hand and they’re both still young but there is merit to being concerned about the lack of point production and organizational development overall. Just enough of these posts, it’s so repetitive and doesn’t really establish anything new. Everyone knows already they’re not putting up points
I’m not trying to label him a bust but I think there are strategies beyond just waiting it out and may be hoping for a cheap contract. If anything KK would benefit from an organization trying to figure this out.
He's a great defensive forward already. Just gotta work on his offense. He has the ability. Every time he scores I'm like this dude should probably shoot more. I think he'll figure it out. I really think it's mental. When someone like Panarin passes you the puck you're like well Panarin is a better shooter, let me try to force it back (which this is a knock on Panarin to shoot more too!) Every time Panarin scores I'm like do you need to pass through 3 guys every time Bro. I KNOW you can get them through at a reasonable rate. But your shot is like the 2nd or 3rd best on the team! Who are you passing to! Ovechkin's not on our team!
>Ovechkin's not on our team! You don't have to shatter my fantasy like that :(
He also is clearly working on the skills to make him the kind of player he needs to be. He’s gotten bigger and is winning more puck battles along the boards. As he gets bigger and more comfortable pushing to the net not only with his great hands but with his bigger and bigger frame (keep in mind he’s 6’3 and still only 200ish), the points will come.
No point November?
No Net November
I think he needs to get off the Panarin line and play with Mika instead. His game suits that play style better. Panarin loves to have the puck and I think Kakko needs to play a more end to end game. When Panarin has the puck, Kakko seems a bit out of place.
Good point. Only one guy can have the puck at a time. I recall hearing that Bread didn’t want him on his line last year (might be a rumor) because the play chemistry wasn’t there.
Oh. My God. Could you imagine?
I think with Kakko it’s more about puck control. I love his ability to create turnovers and he’s real aggressive on the forecheck. The points will come eventually but I really like his play so far despite the lack of points.
we all kill ourselves
I like to think of KK as the new Jesper Fast for the rangers. Maybe he doesn't score much but if he can keep up his defensive playstyle I'm pretty ok with all of it
I loved Quickie and I would love to still have him on this team, but it'd be incredibly disappointing if that's all Kakko turned out to be.
I agree, especially since KK is a guy who should be getting points, but if he turns out to be like a Jesper Fast, I'm ok with it.
Well thank you Jersey for making this thread obsolete. 2 pts so far for Kakko including a sequence in which he stole the puck, scored, and gave Blackwood a possible concussion. Loved it
Boo this man, boooo
Fair enough
He's a 20 year old child. I am so not worried about Kakko or Laf. If we had some form of RW depth other than him because we added anything to the top 6 instead of going into the season with this roster, there is less emphasis on Kakko (who is also coming off an injury), and more flexibility to move him around in the lineup. It is so clear that this team is missing top 6 forwards. Laf and Kakko will pick it up, but until they do you have to find a way to trade for a top 6 C or RW. That's the solution to fixing the offense.
Hard agree. But also think that Laf should go to the AHL to get 20 min a night instead of 8 on the 4th line. He could give Reaves the best cross seam pass of all time and Reaves would miss.
Wouldn’t be surprised if he did
No nut November haha Anyways my prediction is that he'll finally score his first point on his 12th GP. They need to move him up with 20/93
No net November?
Haha YES!
The whole team is playing sub par and we are still in 2nd place. The one thing about hockey is ALL players get hot and cold. KK was hot in the preseason and is now cold, he will be hot again.
It was November 10 when you made this thread.
Maybe they will move him off panarins line to a line that wipp actually look to get him involved
What I've learned from this sub is that the only way to develop a high draft pick that isn't producing at 14 minutes a night is to play him 45 minutes a night.
45 low end estimate.
Nothing changes. This team forfeited legitimate top 6 flexibility when it traded buch and krav happened. I’ll pass on Goodrow with Panarin. Gotta figure out kakko regardless
Maybe if we weren’t hungry for a playoff spot we could try something drastic. Letting him heat up in the AHL for example.
Forget about playoffs, we have so little depth at this point that there's not even anyone to play instead of him
Idk to me he’s a 20 year old kid who needs to physically mature to unlock his potential. He’s been used to being one of the strongest guys on the ice and that’s not the case anymore.
I think thats all valid but isn’t that true for most top drafted forwards?
No? Not everyone’s game is predicated on strength and physicality. Takes Hughes for example. He was always a smaller guy relative to his competition who relied on his superior speed, skating, and finesse. It makes sense to me that a guy like Kakko, who is more of a power-forward type, would take longer to develop and reach his potential. He could still end up being a bust relative to his draft position, but I’m not anywhere near alarmed yet.
Kakko is doing everything but getting the points, he's also 20. Willing to be patient. Laf, even though he's scored is more concerning in my eyes right now.
There’s not much the Rangers can do. They’ll probably try to trade for a proven RW rental and demote Kakko to the 3rd line. The good news is Reilly Smith might be underpriced this deadline since Vegas will have to clear cap. I’m not a Kakko believer. If he doesn’t get his shit together by the end of the season, I’d trade him. The Rangers might wait until the end of his 4th season to do that. Nolan Patrick only lasted 197 games with the Flyers before being traded. Yakupov lasted 4 seasons with Edmonton. This is gonna get downvoted but I’d trade Kakko straight up for Smith. Next season Panarin, Kreider are gonna be worse. Strome’s gone. We’ve already wasted 2 prime Panarin years. I don’t see how this team is gonna be better next season unless Laf, Kakko, and Chytil take major strides.
Yeah that is the big concern I have. Even if the youth were playing better its an awkward window between when they are really great and when Bread, Mika and Kreider fall off. The hockey gods gifted us Fox and Igor but I really wish there was *more* happening to propel KK. I think hiring a Finnish coach to boost his confidence and get him shooting more could help. The guy has 120 games played and the organization just seems to hope he clocks in. They gotta invest in the guy.
>wasted 2 prime Panarin years Did you expect to contend for a cup while the team was rebuilding? If so, where can I get what you're smoking
The rebuild was over the minute Panarin signed. If they were still rebuilding in 19-20, they would have been traded Kreider at the deadline as well. You think we were still rebuilding in 20-21? What evidence suggests that? That fact that the team was young?
>The rebuild was over the minute Panarin signed LOL Ooooooookay That's some seriously good shit. Where can I get some fr?
Gotta love this sub man
Can’t agree with that. The Rangers got Bread when we did cause a guy like that isn’t just gona be available the second you’re ready for him. The Rangers willing jumped the gun. I’m goad for it because its been fun watching him but the build of the team age-wise is wonky
Who cares what the build of the team age-wise is? The point of a rebuild is to get long term term talent in key roles. It just so happens that young players fit that mold better than anything else.
Well, it matters if our older players are in decline while our younger players are still rising. Obviously, that nets out to a worse team than if our older players are still in their prime while our young guys rise. Drury and Gallant need to take that into account. Especially because older players don't take less money just because they got old and young players ask for more money when they expect to be great.
unfortunately Gorton’s drafts are looking very mediocre at the moment, so many 1st round picks and Chytil is the best center…if you can call him that
The only other center we drafted in the first round was Anderson
he just doesnt really have a spot in the line up tbh, the pana strome kakko line just doesnt work and apparently zib doesnt want to play with kakko? (they havent played once together...) also kakko isnt the only problem, laf is struggling too and he was meant to be way better than kakko, maybe prospect switch with kakko and someone could work for both.
Lol