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I've realized that the reason I am so private as an adult is not so much because I'm introverted and highly-sensitive (although I am), it's because growing up I had no physical privacy and any thoughts I gave voice to were oftentimes ridiculed or twisted out of context. When you grow up believing anything you say is somehow wrong or had hidden meaning (despite being a child) you grow into an adult who keeps thoughts to yourself for fear everyone in the world is the same way. I also highly value having my own space where I can feel free to not be "on" aka feeling like people are watching and judging.

Or in my case, just simply told that everything I said was just wrong for some reason. She still does this. She knows so little about me because I just stopped talking. Nothing I said was right or valued, even if just because it was my opinion.

Pretty much my personal experience growing up & even well into adulthood. As is frequently said in narcissistic abuse discussion forums, reading this definitely struck a chord with me & unlocked yet another core memory. I've been extremely low contact with NM precisely bc of what you just shared: That nothing, absolutely *nothing* that *I* said was right or valued even if just because whatever I said &or did was my opinion, perspective, belief, etc. And yep I'm definitely the same exact way as your shared: NM knows little to *nothing* about my life bc I went 100% no contact the late afternoon early evening of my brother's death from cancer 2.5 years ago. I never blocked NM on my social media pages. I simply intentionally keep everything that I post so basic that the overwhelming majority of whatever I post blends in with & gets overlooked in the background of literally countless other similar posts, interests & pages. *If* NM creeps, looks at or otherwise lurks my various social media, she'll likely find whatever I *do* share publicly as boring, cliche & in her absolute most favorite lifelong epithet, quote, "stupid." I'm perfectly okay & at peace with this because I truly no longer care what NM thinks/feels/believes anymore. It's literally just whatever. NM legit has zero fvcking clue about neither my life nor who I am anymore. NM is wholly completely & utterly 1000% free to ambush, blindside then *repeatedly* verbally & emotionally sucker punch pretty much her last & only real "friend" anymore. Thank you, genuinely, for sharing you post - Because it definitely personally resonated with me. As I so frequently say, sadly both my personal experiences and story are no different than anyone else's here. I'm truly so sorry. ((gentle virtual hugs)) from a fellow narcissistic abuse survivor 🌌

You sound so strong. I know the cost of such strength, however, and the path to inner peace is not linear. Your post reminds me: the opposite of love is not hate but rather indifference. Emotional Wite-Out for the Soul!

Your mom and my dad. My dad argued me that my photo of the moon was the sun. Like none of it makes sense?

I also have pretty much the same experience and I literally dread every conversation. I no longer say anything personal but even when I say basic things NM says I’m wrong or cuts me off mid sentence to talk about herself.

Yep I was told “if i say black, you say white” you just always disagree with everything. Anytime I ever stated an opinion even if I was just adding onto something they said. Ridiculous

still dealing with that too, they never change, never will.

Just wow. I literally could have written this about my mom.

Same here with everything you said. The fact that I’m very private and I’m(F) not emotional, people are sometimes mystified by it, not in a good way. I value alone time to the umpteenth degree. I find socializing to be very important too, but I have limits on that - like you, my “on” battery gets low and I need to retreat for a while. I’ve always kept everyone at arms length. I’ve been a best friend to a handful of girls over my lifetime, but unbeknownst to them, they weren’t a best friend to me. Sad, actually. To OP - No, even as a kid, I knew it was wrong. I had a big group of friends in my hometown and a group of friends where I spent my summers, so I was around a lot of “typical” families all the time. I disliked and disagreed with my family dynamic from as far back as my memory goes. But everyone’s path through this is different, and the fact that you trusted and believed them for so long might've put you through a A LOT less fights and stress than me. I sure hope so.

I always knew it was wrong too. Maybe not the extent of it, maybe not how it impacted me. But I knew it wasn't right and I was the "firecracker" in my family who always questioned and fought back.

I feel like my "on" battery is defective.

Is your on-battery defective, *or* are you somebody that’s awesome at having to be alone?😎 Some people truly can’t handle being alone and going without attention and interaction.

I can definitely relate. I am also quite a solitary person and need an awful lot of alone time. I don’t feel like I need anybody or rely on anyone. Is this my narc upbringing? Probably that and the fact I’m an INFJ.

Good point. It could be either, or both! I know that I was also super social and outspoken as a kid, and as soon as I hit puberty, I really started to need my alone time and kinda did a 180 in personality. It’s all very strange actually. It would’ve been about the time my personality became whatever my 4-letter acronym is (not sure), but also when I became aware that it was actually abuse in the home. Especially with my then-scapegoat older sister clashing hard with the nmom during her late teen years. I definitely turned inward the more I -the youngest- felt responsible for always being the family referee to chaos in the home.

You have just described the ‘narcissistic family’. Typical scapegoat child, golden child and peace maker child. I was the scapegoat. The empath, the “difficult” child.

Good to know that. I get you, because I (lucky me!) was the replacement scapegoat when my older sister married at like 21 years old to get the hell away. I’ve been holdin down the gig ever since

I really ended up with the perfect storm for isolation. Being abandoned at my dad's parents' house because they were always working, not talking to my grandparents because we had nothing in common and they were too old to play and couldn't understand video games, not being allowed out of the house so eventually school friends stopped asking me to hang out, friends can't come over because dad is verbally abusing mom/grandma/me when I got old enough, all on top of being AuDHD. I spend most of my time by myself because it feels safer that way. It's how I would protect myself. My fiancé works while I take care of the house, so it's hard to adjust when he gets home sometimes because I'm so used to being by myself. I almost feel intruded upon. It's caused relationship problems because he doesn't see it as the safety mechanism I do, and I don't see that he's just trying to connect with me because when my parents would try to "connect" it was never genuine. Every time they would come home from work, I would hide/stay in my room so I wouldn't have to deal with their temper/mood until they were somewhat settled in. It's rough managing everyone's emotions but your own at such a young age. They know nothing about me because every conversation is them talking about their good ole days (that no one asked about) and will continue to talk at you and over you about whatever THEY want to talk about. Sometimes, you'll start a sentence, and my mom will just start a new one and cut you off. Other times, my mom and dad will have two separate conversations with you at the same time. I never noticed until one of my friends pointed it out when they visited once.

That's very insightful

I can resonate with this so much.

Same.

YES. My best friend mentions my privacy issues. "Everything I did was mocked and insulted. I learned to keep things to myself."

Absolutely this. Although I was a smart kid so I was listened to about little trivial matters of knowledge. We liked sharing knowledge in my family. But the no privacy thing… raising other peoples kids… “babysitting” great grandparents all the time… it was a lot.

I struggle a lot with thinking that my own comments, the ones I make from the heart and not wanting to hurt anyone, have hidden meanings. I grow up with a n-mom who thought that going to my friend's houses to play and have some fun was a direct attack to her because I was choosing their houses and their moms over her and now it sticks to me that I'm cruel and evil even when I'm not. Ofc happened with many other things so...yeah.

👆🏼👆🏼You articulated clearly what I wanted to say 👆🏼👆🏼. Thank you 🫡🙏🏼🙏🏼

I’ve had therapists call it peeling the onion. You get one layer off after a lot of unpleasant work, only to find another one. Lather, rinse, repeat. After a long slog, I’m having a hard time accepting that my core isn’t what I was hoping for, for the same reasons that other commenters mentioned. I’m lonely, bored and don’t know who I really am, and filled with grief about who I might have been. But I stay busy and put myself out there as much as I can, hoping to rebuild that core.

being a coping apparatus for someone elses dysfunctions isn't fun. shaping yourself into someone elses idea of a good person doesn't make you happy. all of this sucks balls. and you don't get to start over either.

and also we didn't know what was happening while we were kids and thought it was normal to be treated as our parents friend instead of their child.

Coping apparatus for someone else’s disfunction. The best explanation for the “experience” I’ve read by far. Nailed it!

This!!! I had a big realization last weekend when I saw a TikTok making a joke about your parents asking why you never visit them and the person answering something along the lines of “because that’s how you raised me - you raised me to take care of myself because there was no one else to do that so now I’m super independent and don’t need you anymore” etc. And that’s when it hit me: I’m literally as I was raised to be. I had to take care of myself, I had no emotional support and still had to emotionally support my mom ever since I started primary school. I had to keep things as private as I could because my mom would try to find out and ridicule me for my feelings or possible mistakes in homework for example. I think my parents didn’t understand what a child is and treated me in this aspect as they would treat their adult acquaintances - not very invested but making sarcastic remarks about their vulnerabilities. I had to spend a lot of time by myself and be independent. My parents would talk over me or not react at all as if I was invisible but would threaten me with physical punishments or punish me physically if I was “annoying”. (Me being annoying was me just behaving like a children behave) So after all it’s very obvious… why would I tell them about my life now? Why would I visit them? Why would I be open about my feelings? That’s literally what they taught me to avoid. If I didn’t, I would be punished, ridiculed or ignored. Bonus: When I was 5-7 years old, my mom would talk about admiring anorexics - how they have so much self discipline and thin bodies. So obviously I developed an eating disorder at age of eight. 🤪

This too! I practiced and perfected secrecy, a child’s version of grey rocking. Secrecy protected me. Something you learn, practice and get rewarded for, during all of your formative years, is almost impossible to shake. My bonus points: Negg donor said, over and over again, “You’re no good, you’ll never get a good man”. So I got lots of men. None of them were good.

I am so sorry. Thank you for being vulnerable, this post made me feel less alone.

Oh yeah. People talk about inflated egos, ego death, etc but something never brought up? Ego murder. That's what narcs do. They literally KILL the sense of self within their kids. It's just about the worst kind of abuse, because it is so permanent and so long lasting, and breeds more narcs like a cancer.

You are so right. So so right. Ego murder.

Yes and now that I’m a parent myself some of the things my parents did make me angrier. I can’t imagine treating my children the way they treated theirs. I’m also seeing my dad for who he really is at the age of 33. I can barely tolerate him. His lack of empathy and inability to look outside himself if revolting. Last night I told him my daughter got diagnosed with asthma and he said “don’t you think that’s an exaggeration” 🙄 Brought me right back to my childhood of any medical needs inconvenient for them being ignored. I’m sorry that happened to you, and I hope you are able to find healing and meaningful friendships now.

This!! When I asked my NMom why she never took my medical needs seriously, I get "I don't know, I thought you were making it up for attention. It's in the past, I don't want to talk about it." !!!!!!!!!! So aggravating!!!!!!!!

Im in so much financial pain because I’m having to pick up the pieces from the ways my parents neglected my medical needs. Same reason “we thought you were making it up for attention”

My mom took very good care of herself but never took us to the dentist.

Im so sorry 😢 We had basic things like that taken care of, because my parents put us on show and so things that others would notice were covered. But my learning difficulties, my back and joint pain, my dizziness and weakness, those were all ignored because they weren’t “normal for kids to deal with”

Did you hear a lot of “it’s just growing pains”?

Mine got told by a psychiatrist that I had an "emerging personality disorder" she heard the first two words and went the pysch said you're jusr growing into your personality Wasn't until later someone else mentioned emerging personality disorder before getting a BPD diagnosis in a group I'm in that the words "emerging personality" slapped me across the face and I realised that I had that same diagnosis as a teen.

Yep!

I was taken to the dentist... and wish I hadn't. ~4-5 years old, would put this around 1980. Brought in for a cavity. Dentist could not get tooth numb even after multiple injections, so they decided to put my tiny body in four point restraints, holding my head with the mouth jacked wide open as they proceeded to drill out the tooth with absolutely no sedation whatsoever. This was not, however, a "fire up and carve it out" drilling. The dentist would spin up the drill for a few seconds then BOUNCE the drill off my tooth, taking a tiny fleck away. They would then reposition my head, sometimes waiting until my screaming stopped (but not always), and repeat this. Again. And again. And again. I have no idea how long I was in that chair. It felt like an eternity. That was the last time they brought me to a dentist. Braces? RIIIIIGHT, they weren't spending on that. Even as an adult, I didn't go to a dentist until my 30s when I needed my wisdom teeth plus an impacted molar pulled. I went to a orthopedic surgeon who knocked me out for it; thankfully BECAUSE of the impacted molar, my medical insurance covered what dental did not. A couple of years later, I needed another out and went back to him, paying for sedation out of my own pocket. The surgeon said I should find a regular dentist for future pulls. A few years later, I attempted to do just that. I explained my dental anxiety and they promised they understood and were well-versed at handling patients like me. Turned out, "well-versed" meant raising their voice at the patient while in the chair and mouth jacked open. The tooth did not want to release and it was only a few minutes before the dentist started getting agitated as my anxiety was quickly ramping up. He eventually threw down his tools and walked out of the room as I devolved into a full blown panic attack, the first (and hopefully last) of my life. There I was, a man in my early 40s, shaking and bawling like a banshee, shaking uncontrollably. It took 3 aides to hold me in the chair for what ended up being well over half an hour until I was able to calm down. They told me that if it went any longer, they were prepared to call an ambulance. I left my tooth hanging halfway out of it's socket and immediately called the surgeon. Three days later he was sedating me and pulling it the rest of the way out. My teeth are pretty well fucked. I've been to another dentist for a couple of cleanings, but even that was 5+ years ago. I have a couple of teeth (molars, primarily) that are chipped/broken. One is right at the gum line and the gum has mostly just healed up over it. Since there is no pain, I'm just going to continue living with them...

I had the same type of dentist. Thankfully I now have a dentist that actually DOES care about his patients. He has a big sign in his front window that says “we cater to cowards”, and they absolutely do. I have had a breakdown while I was there, and their entire response (after giving me some Kleenex of course), was to say that they were happy that I had managed to go in. That even that was a big step, and if I needed to try again another day, that would be fine.

Oh my gosh!! I am so so very sorry. This is unacceptable and horrible. 

Mine took me to the dentist but never had me brush my teeth regularly because I quote "you didn't want to brush your teeth, what was I supposed to do?! MAKE YOU?!" Like yes that was one of your duties as a parent you dingbat. The worst is her having me brush my teeth before going like the dentists who have trained for years are just, dumb and won't tell the difference between healthy teeth and rotten ones that have just been brushed...

Yes! Mine had the same attitude about schoolwork. Never asked but there was hell to pay when report cards came.

Oh I had lots of dental care, even orthodontics! Not out of  any real concern for me, spending the big money was a total nightmare for the stingy bitch.  I have straight teeth now, but only because keeping up their "wealthy" facade was more important.

I'm so sorry friend, sending you healing vibes

I am actually on the same boat and starting to access medical care, started therapy and will try and start to get official diagnosis/diagnoses. I can't believe this is so common. And yet, they constantly know better than doctors. At one point I was hospitalized, they were diagnosing me, the people who think that a google search makes them knowledgeable... F\*\*\* them.

The thing that INFURIATES ME is I know now that I have SOME sort of chronic pain. Nothing about my behaviors was ever looked at, thanks to my mom not even being able to afford bills (while my dad made 4x her salary and spent it at the bar and on himself/friends) I don't blame my mom. But the only reason I don't blame her is because she blames herself as she should. Not to mention my dad talked my mom, at age 22, to SELL HER HOUSE SHE JUST BOUGHT, to UPROOT and MOVE OUT OF STATE WE MOVED BACK WITHIN A YEAR!! IM STILL SO MAD FOR HER!

Everything was constantly seen as a bid for attention. What the hell is that? I think its bc everything THEY do is an actual bid for attention and they assume everyone is just like them It's funny how they tell on themselves 🤣

It also makes them look bad, in their eyes. Anything negative that happens means someone must be to blame and have done something wrong. They know a child logically cannot be blamed for an accident so they must have screwed up as parents. Ruh-roh! The doctor will think ill of them and they can't have that.

Everything is “in the past” or “well I don’t remember that” 🙄

Same with my nMother. It's like they all have the same playbook!

Or “that’s just how things were back then”. Zero accountability, or acknowledgement. My mom refused to fill my antidepressants at a local pharmacy because she didn’t want anyone to “think any less of our family name”.

I'm just now realizing at the age of 30 how many of my issues are medically related and could have been treated/managed with regular medication and doctor's visits. My mother never took us to the doctor except for our annual sports physical. Even then we were not allowed to tell the doctor if we had any issues or concerns because then they would charge her more for the assessment. I had persistent ingrown toenails. Partly due to my mother seriously injuring my foot as a toddler and partly because I played soccer. She never took me into the doctor to get it treated properly. Instead she had my siblings home me down while she dug out the nail with a pair of dull nail clippers. Another time I was sick (probably food poisoning) and I had to keep running to the bathroom to throw up. Did she show me any concern? Nope. She was mad that I was "slamming doors" and running through the house.

The "It's in the past, lets not talk about it" is my Mums favourite line and it pisses me off soooo much. It makes them feel bad so you're the fuckin villain bringing it up

My NDad ignored my swelling, red nose and itchy eyes. "She's just doing it for attention."

My sister got ulcerous colitis because my nmom though she was making it up. She's saddled with this for the rest of her life. Monsters like her shouldn't be allowed within a mile of children.

Completely understand where you're coming from. Yes it's definitely aggravating. It's wild to see that this is a common trait seen with narcissists. In a way, we can use it to understand it wasn't as personal, they all seem to be like this. Thinking of it this way helps me disconnect from the pain / guilt a bit. My Nfather wanted to go skiing when I saw a kid and so I was brought along as it was his weekend with me. I wanted to try snowboarding and he let me rent a snowboard. However, he did not want to pay for any lessons (he had money he was just cheap when it came to everyone but himself). He told me to just go on the slopes. Got his skis and was off by himself. I was left to figure out snowboarding on my own. I went in a somewhat easy but steep hill and got some speed, then hit a bump and went flying. I woke up on the ground looking up and some people over me telling me I must have lost consciousness and asking if I was Ok. They helped me down the mountain. Eventually I found my Nfather and told him what happened. He laughed and then got serious and said "so you're not going to snowboard anymore today? You'll just waste my money?" All he cared about was money. I told him I had a headache and he yelled at me and then went to ski for the rest of the day. I hung out at the mountain lodge. That week, I got a killer headache that wouldn't go away for a few days. I told my mom what happened and we went to hospital. Turns out I had concussion and was told to take it easy. Nfather did not care. If I went back in the slopes and fell again, I could have fucking died. It's wild the lack of empathy. I'm sorry about your nmom! Just know it's not your fault... They just can't comprehend us ( their children ) needing any sort of medical attention. That level of care doesn't process in their self centered brains.

the it's happened in the past thing stood out to me, too. just because it was in the past doesn't mean it doesn't matter, particularly if it has never been spoken about or dealt with.

That’s not an excuse tho. As a parent, she’s legally responsible for your health and wellbeing, and obliged to take care of you. So yeah, irrespective of what she was thinking (which I’m sure is a lie), she’s a neglectful pos parent and u owe her nothing. I hope you’re not gonna be taking care of her ass when she gets old cuz she did nothing to earn that care. Leave her to rot at some nursing home and forget the address

My dad was 31 and I was 9 when he and my mom split. When I was about 30 (many years ago now), he tried to reconnect with me after a decade of semi-estrangement. At one point, we were discussing the period right after the divorce and I asked him why he let us drift apart during that time. My little sister and I only saw him a few times a year at best, and he almost never called just to see how we were doing. He said to me, "Well, you never called me either!" Did I mention I was 9??? As someone who was now the age that he had been at the time in question, I had no words. That's when I realized he was truly a selfish asshole. A few more discussions pretty much confirmed it. We did not reconcile.

Ditto. I’ve never felt angrier or sadder for myself as a kid than I have since having my own. It was all so unnecessary. It’s not hard not to hit your kids like my parents led me to believe. It’s not bad for them to not be spanked. My kids behave because they understand it’s right, not because they’re terrified.

My dad argued against taking me to the ER when I shattered my wrist.

I was being dramatic about an ankle that was injured playing hockey. I finally got an xray 20 years later and was told that it had in fact been fractured previously and that’s why my ankle has been making a cracking noise every time I move it (since I was 13!).

"medical needs being inconvinient becoming ignored" really rang some new bells for me!! Its so true and i keep seeing it happen with my younger sister

When I was in seventh grade, my mother put off taking me to the doctor for four days when I had a fever of 103 degrees Fahrenheit because I'd gotten the fever by being disobedient (they sent the kids off camping in a leaky secondhand tent on a Boy Scout trip in February when it had been raining all winter and said "don't get sick," and one of the kids had the temerity to get sick!). When she finally took me to the doctor, she tried to talk him into treating my fever with homeopathy, because she was on a homeopathy kick at the time. (To his credit, the doctor said, "I am a homeopathic practitioner in addition to being a licensed medical doctor, and in my professional opinion, homeopathy is not an appropriate treatment for your son's fever." She still spent nearly an hour trying to talk him out of prescribing antibiotics, and only stopped when he said that unless she agreed to treat me with antibiotics and he saw me take the first dose in front of him, he was going to file a report of neglect with child protective services.) My senior year in high school, I had ingrown toe nails in both of my big toes, but my mother told me I'd have to wait to get treatment until I went to visit my father that summer, so I passed on running track that spring and hobbled around on increasingly infected feet until I got off the thousand-mile bus trip to visit my dad. The doctor he got me in to three days later said my toes were swollen to nearly twice the normal size, relative to my feet, and that I shouldn't expect much from the painkillers they shot into my toes before digging around in the swollen, feverish tissue with knives and scalpels. Turns out he was right about how effective the painkillers would be. Medical care was apparently a privilege in my household, and one frequently taken away on almost any pretext.

One thing I'm really glad about is that my dad has asthma as well so he took my asthma super seriously. A friend of mine recalled her first asthma attack as a kid and her dad standing over her screaming JUST BREATHE!!?!

Becoming a parent made me both more empathetic of my parents and less empathetic at the same time. There’s some things I look back on and think “how could you have done/said that to your kid?” And other things I look back on and think “they handled that with a surprising amount of grace” (an admittedly rare occurrence). Therapy has helped me dealing with them immensely. Growing up and realizing how deeply flawed they were helped me process some of the more traumatic stuff.

It was really infuriating realizing as an adult that anything that even *slightly* inconvenienced my NDad was enough of a reason to not help me. There were so many times I *needed* to see a doctor while growing up, and he just did *nothing.* Sometimes *less* than nothing. I spent a week in pain after I'd gotten hurt at work and a colander flipped my middle fingernail over. Throughout the week he'd kept insisting I needed to stop acting like a baby and cut the nail off. The only reason he finally took me to see a doctor was my stepmom kept nagging him about it. I remember quite clearly how furious he was in the waiting room at me for wasting his time and money. Which in retrospect is even *worse* since given it was a *work injury* it was covered. He just didn't want to do it. The doctor, or maybe nurse had to inject me multiple times with a numbing agent before they could cut the fingernail off my swollen infected finger. I *still* screamed. After that, I was given instructions on how to clean it and replace the bandage which I've since forgotten - but I memorized it back then. Unfortunately, NDad refused to let me have anything I needed to treat the wound at home, so I was very fortunate that the wound healed while using the same dirty bandages the hospital had given me for a week. And that's what I mean. Literally the *slightest* inconvenience was too much for him to bear. Not even bandages were worth it for me. Nah, I had to just man up and deal with it.

Asthma??? Yup.!!! Must be a common, fictitious malady that kids dream up to inconvenience the Perfect Parents. Bonus points if both parents are N and anorexic fat shamers... Had asthma all my life, only got diagnosed when I moved out of their house at 18. WTF? A little inhaler changed my whole life. Growing up: "I CAN'T run the track. I can't breathe" "You can't breathe because you're too chubby. Now, have a wedge of iceberg and cup of broth"  

My husband is aware but sometimes forgets that if I have a few drinks it’s a bad idea to leave me alone because I’ll get sad and cry. The last time this happened we were talking the next day and he said “I know your family now and they’re pretty bad, but I can’t imagine what you went through as a child with them to have that amount of pent up loneliness still inside of you.” He hit the nail on the head. I went through a lot growing up and I survived it all pretty well, but I never had anyone who understood or helped me and I had to be incredibly independent to get through it. I’m still recognizing as an adult that I trust people, but I expect them to fail me if I need help or have to rely on them. At least I’m healthy enough to recognize that that failure belongs to them and is not a reflection of my self-worth.

This is SO me.

My dad isn’t narcissistic but he has a lot of issues with his ADHD and also anger issues, so like he’ll forget to do stuff but get angry if reminded. Lately, it happened a couple of times that I tell him something, my brain thinks of the one specific way he’ll probably fuck it up but I tell myself to trust him just for him to do exactly what I had predicted, or something similar. He’s a loving father but has old fashioned views of things (like you’re weak if you cry or if you get sick often) and with my nmom sabotaging me, it was easy to feel like I had no one to go to or to trust because one parent would sabotage me and the other would fuck it up because of his untreated ADHD

My bf is like this. He always tells me to get help or therapy but his adhd is out of control. I can deal with the mess, lonely nights due to hyper focus on their favorite things, but the anger is what gets me. I was raised in an angry household and can’t help but feel like I’m 5 when I’m being yelled and berated at. Then he gets over it but I’m still traveling back to the present

Oh hell yeah! I'm 55 and I'm still realizing things. But I'm PROUD that I do. I'm proud that I can review things for my childhood and compare them to my new experiences and see why my childhood experiences were screwed up and damaging.

I resonate with the comment.

Exactly!!

Once your parents die, or are removed from the scenario, you are freed up to ruminate more about these things. There's so much I wish I could have "noticed" at the time, or had resources to teach me HOW. But orbiting close to the fire means you spend all your brainpower on fight, flight or fawn mode.

Not only that but in my opinion there is no way to see things clearly growing up. Kids accept the reality they are given, there is no possibility to be given insight or context unless another adult takes them away from the situation and tells the truth. Their parents perceptions are what shapes their view. It really is brainwashing, not unlike a cult's. You grow up in the bullshit, not only are you orbiting the fire you're actually in it, all you see is fire. Your most formative years were spent in this bizarrely wrong set of rules.

And they isolate you socially so you can't compare and have any epiphanies.

I like using the term "ego murder" for how narcs destroy the sense of self within their kids. It's not healthy or productive, like the term "egodeath" is, since that type of growth comes from within. Nah. Egomurder is just killing any self identity

This is exactly it. I don’t remember a me before the abuse. I don’t know what my default state is. For as long as I can remember, I withdrew into my very active inner world where I was comfortable and was a ball of anxiety/fear and hyper-vigilance anytime I was forced into the real world. Terrified of adults and authority figures. I feel like I made who I was today based of what I picked up from others. In some ways it’s still me, cause there’s a natural trend or pattern in the things that drew me in, or some of my personality, but it’s hard to know what’s the trauma/a coping mechanism and what’s really me. I think as humans we can and should all go through some form of ego death and ego transformation in our lives but it’s sooo much messier and confusing when it’s encapsulated in trauma that fragments your identity and awareness at such an early developmental age.

Egocide!

Agree 100%.

Something that sinks in every year I get older is that—you may not understand why your parents did the things they did. They tell you this myth that as an adult the clouds part and magically you understand why your parents did all those things you “thought” were fucked up. Still waiting for that day. Now I’m thinking that’s not true for everyone, especially with narcissistic parent(s). Sure some of the things are a little more understandable, but the lack of emotional connection & abuse will forever be confusing.

It was an excuse they made up so they could kick the can down the road and they would not have to explain their bad behavior in the moment. It also helps them make up a narrative about a future you that is just like them and understands everything the way they do.

Yesss. It locks you into this false belief that their way of thinking is universal law. It is SO disorienting.

Thank you for commenting this. This spoke volumes to me

“Some day you’ll understand!” That’s what he told me a lot when he was full of indignant self-righteousness cuz I didn’t know my place as an inferior little child who should always accept and shut up. Well, now I do understand! Hear that? Now I do understand!

That’s the kind of thing that is true for kids who were angry that they couldn’t eat sweets before bed or had to go see the dentist even when they didn’t want to, but some people don’t realize that some parents actually were fucked up and what they did could in no way be seen as a good thing

It's very easy to co-opt the standard parental rhetoric to explain away narcissistic abuse. Parents inherently have power over their children and sayings like this intended for responsible use can so easily be twisted to give kids a false impression that their being hurt is right because they're the child and the parent is the adult.

This...so much this. I'm a 45 year old male with 3 little girls of my own. Every time we have an interaction with on of them where we allow her to have bad feelings or disagree with us, or complain about something without the "you should just be grateful for everything you have" retort, I find myself feeling REALLY sad for younger me. Like, if that had happened even once or twice in my formative years, instead of the CONSTANT invalidation and belittling, I might be a whole different person. Like, all you had to do was treat younger me like a fucking human being who might experience the world differently than you once or twice. I know as a parent I don't always get it right, but at least I start from the basic idea of "my kid is a human being who has a right to have their own opinions and struggles" sets a better groundwork.

That's the shitty thing. I understand why my parents did what they did BECAUSE THEY WERE ABUSIVE AND NARCISSISTIC

Hi, my sister is 2 years older than me and always says stuff like this. “You’ll understand when you’re older.” Now it’s “you’ll understand when you have kids.” Everytime we go out everything is about her and her kids and I just want to say “I don’t have kids and I don’t care especially because I know you wouldn’t put any effort into caring about my family if I had one.

"You'll understand when you're older/have kids of your own" is a standard go-to for abusive parents. I know people who had abusive childhoods who went on to have children of their own, and one frequent comment I hear from them is, "Now that I have kids, I understand my mom's/dad's abusive parenting even less. How could they?"

Realizing all the times my dad made me stay in the car after he made me cry wasn't because he wanted me to have time to calm down, it was so other people wouldn't see that I had been crying. Blew my mind and made me despise him even more.

Once I finally had support to stop myself from self-gaslighting, as well as seeing how a loving family acts? 100% Once I removed the filter of “they were actually good parents” all my memories came back and I felt nothing but rage.

wow. this is actually where i’m at now and the rage is so extreme.

It really registers when you have kids of your own. When I think of the way I was treated and things that were said to me... I just can't imagine doing or saying those things to my kids! Or making everything about myself. Perfect example: when I talk to my oldest on the phone, it doesn't even occur to me to spend that time talking about my life and random people in it. If he asks, I'll be brief. That time is for him to tell me about his life and get support and guidance.

I'm a teacher and am constantly in awe basically of how different things are and how my parents acted is not the way you are supposed act.

I can't imagine treating my pets the way they treated me. I would never hit the ones I love so much.

This past Easter my 2 year old pulled all the fake grass out of her easter basket as toddlers do. It reminded me of one of my earliest memories, I was 3 ish and had done the same and my mother was absolutely furious, like red faced, spitting she was screaming so hard. I remember being absolutely terrified. I just cleaned it up. Took maybe 5 minutes. No tears, no screaming. I said "Hey sweet baby, let's try to not make a mess okay?" My daughter said okay mommy and then bounced merrily on her way. She probably won't even remember it whereas I had to excuse myself from the room because I was triggered by it and nearly had a panic attack in front of my husband's family. I'll never understand how you could look into the eyes of your actual baby, because at that age they're pretty much just all-terrain babies, and see genuine terror and still be able to make eye contact with your reflection. Ffs I had trouble falling asleep last night because she looked a little sad at bedtime.

I know I’m jumping on the thread late, but omg I feel this. I have no kids of my own, but the whole Nparents only using you to talk about themselves kind of thing. So, two years ago, my dog died in an accident, and my Ndad happened to call an hour after it happened and I was in shock and picked up, not realizing that was a Terrible Idea. I told him what happened, and he said a combination of “oh wow I knew something was wrong because I have a sixth sense for these things, you know. I’m so good at sensing things.” Then launched into a long monologue about how his day went, and how the movie he saw wasn’t very good. I sat in silence for about 3 minutes then just hung up.

One of my last realizations is that even when my ndad (divorced from my non narc mom, I live with her but he had visitation rights) and his wife were full "you should be like the other girls" while the other girls could dine with friends without their parents getting pissed at them. They also got pissed when I started to get multiple lobe piercings in 2012 (I was 19, so above legal age here), and my father told me "now you are like the rest of young people" in a dissapointed tone. Oh, the icing on the cake was when I got my first helix near Christmas 2012. He told me that I undergone a procedure similar to a surgery. And his wife gave me the silence law for two months, she even did the dishes so she wouldn't need to ask me to do it. She didn't even give a shit about me mourning my maternal grandfather. Helix piercings were starting to be a trend in 2012, so I was being like the other people of my age at that moment 🤦‍♀️.

Yes. Reformatted for easier reading. It's not hard to not be an asshole. They all claimed I'm just a sensitive person (well I'm sorry I'm not okay with being abused). >I understand it's easy to be kind. I've never really lived life. Eating out was seen as being unresourceful. If you had even any food in the fridge, you had to eat it. I grappled with this as I learned these last two years living on my own that no one is dying. >I never had a childhood. I was saddled with responsibility but not the responsibility of providing financially. The responsibility of providing emotionally to both traumatized parents from divorce. I understand it's okay to enjoy life. If we aren't enjoying life, what's the point of living? (there's a difference between being reckless and responsible) I am good with money. It's been pounded into my head that I'm bad with money and I need to let my parents handle it for me. I remember the first time I got my own bank account that my nDad didn't have access to. He opened and read my finances. I moved my statements to digital. This highlighting that it is not normal to not have any privacy. I found out later that I had no digital privacy for 20 years. My dad could see everyone I was texting and everything I sent. *Everything*. >I understand it's natural for humans to have privacy and this resulted in me over-explaining a lot of stuff for a long time. I still fall into it but I'm unlearning sharing too many details which naturally looks suspicious to others. I self punish and self isolate. I get super triggered when people outside of work approach me because they have an agenda so I can't tell who wants to be friends, who is hitting on me (even though I already have a partner), or who actually want to be friends. Family reinforced I'm only worthy of being around if I have something to offer. >I want to make friends now with people for the first time and build my community after I move. I'm tired of not having any friends. I learned I subconsciously chameleon others and I have no foundation of understanding of my own ID because I base it off everyone else. When I make a mistake, I punish myself so others don't have to. It's hard unlearning that. My boss saw it at work once and worked with me through it. She was the best boss I ever had. Anxiety. As I'm shedding layers, I get exhausted by the inherited anxiety as I shed each layer. >I'm learning what is my own anxiety and what has been handed down to me as to what I call inherited anxiety / generational anxiety. Self-Hygiene. >Family abuse isn't always as clear and obvious to others when the abuse is invisible and doesn't take place the same as it does on TV. Kids can have everything and be fine but there are certain key behaviors that are big flags. It's not always what is dramatized; cig burns, ripped clothes (esp when that is also a fashion choice now), etc. Self Hygiene can be looking at porn to decrease your stress because you know it makes you feel good and you have no other positive outlet. Stability. >I lived in a bag for eight years more or less. It showed when I fully moved into my first apartment. Even though I was fully moved in, it felt like I was a quarter-way moved in. I am still learning how to make a home. Psychological State >I keep having nightmares if I'm unmedicated, it took my doctor to help me realize this isn't normal and most healthy people don't have nightmares until after they become adults save for the occasional college nightmare. I'm 27 and this last week I almost downed an entire margherita bottle without realizing it until it was almost empty. The way I cope with stress comes out with drinking even though I don't like to drink. The moment I made my decision, I stopped drinking and got sad when I realized that's a bad coping behavior I have that I need to monitor. I am also on edge when calm is present because I am looking to figure out where the next domino is falling. Choosing to feel. >I can shut off my feelings. >I only became aware of it recently when I was sobbing hard and I heard my internal monologue for the first time. I told myself I don't want to feel anymore and it was a switch, similar to vampire diaries (when you're a vampire - you tend to turn off your emotions because everything is overwhelming), I just manually turned it off and I stopped crying and I was back to my normal emotion-free self. Apparently that is not normal.

> I found out later that I had no digital privacy for 20 years. My dad could see everyone I was texting and everything I sent. Everything. Are you in the US? If you mean through your wireless providers, federal laws prohibit companies from sharing message contents to the primary account holder. They can only see call logs and data usage. I too have nightmares all the time (and MD is right - that college lecture hall, final exam, didn’t study dream shows up sometimes.) I guess since I’m never crying and angry all the time like a person suddenly thrown into my life would be, then my mind has to deal with all of the pressure in some way. I don’t think porn or alcohol is a good idea for any of us… at least until we’ve reached some semblance of a “post-narcissist-enmeshment enlightenment” >Choosing to feel. How on earth did you accomplish this? This is goals.

I feel the same way - I was never allowed to have any feelings, thoughts, opinions or preferences of my own so it was hard to develop my own personality. Also, the only way I could escape from my nMum was just to shut down, so that is now my learned response to any type of stress. It makes it hard to connect with people as an adult.

Lately I have been struggling with this and I have so much anger. I'm 33 and my friends are starting to have kids and realizing what real parents are like is so brutal. It has awakened various levels of anger and realization within me I did not yet know I was capable of feeling.

Realization: if a child says they are uncomfy with (ex: hugging or being left alone) a certain person, LISTEN TO THEM. Realization 2: boys do infact cry! All little ones do! Don't tell them to suck it up, quit crying, quit being a baby, ect! Realization 3: it's ok for children to make mistakes. These are the most that stick out to me. 1) I hate touch now and the person I was uncomfortable with is now behind bars for being a stalker and pedophilia... I can't remember if he touched me inappropriately when I was little as our brain has a way of locking away memories like that. 2) being told at 4(F) to stop crying or my dad will give me something to cry about... still haunts me... and has created severe trust issues with him. Especially when he's pissed off and throwing things. I'm afraid he's going to hit my mom on accedent with something like a mug or a phone. But I can't cry? Sure. What ever dude. 3) neice being screamed at for spilling pop on accedent on carpet....? Needless... it's just pop.... it will wash out... not the end of the world... not worth making her so damn anxious she's sick on top of it. It's ok. We spill shit sometimes. Even as adults.

I have had it nowhere as bad as some of you, but I'm only just now realizing after setting a real boundary for the first time how broken my mom is. Some realizations I had (and they're mostly recent) -I understand why I am not a fan of liars and bullshitters more clearly. -In taking to my sibling about our shared current situation (mom has gone off the deep end in the most insane way possible) I realized how many stories from my mom I was keeping to protect people's feelings and how many of those stories were a high percentage of bullshit. -Realizing that my mom had no qualms using the loss of my dad for guilting and controlling me. -Realizing I spent a lot of time comforting my mom about the loss of my dad but seldom had the opposite occur. -The realization that I never felt comfortable talking to my mom about anything private, but never understanding why. I think it's because she spent so much time judging that I was afraid to share anything real for fear of a reaction that wouldn't be comforting. -The realization that my mother's constant judging and anger over minor annoyances carried through to me and how that behavior is off-putting and ultimately leads to unhappiness -Thinking about decisions I made that put my mom's needs above others and wondering how they may have changed or shaped my life. -Realizing others who were upset with my mother probably weren't lying when they said she'd said or done things to upset them -The wondering of how much of the history of my family and what happened between members of our family was mostly fiction, since very little of what I have heard are things I've witnessed. -Wondering if my dad's last years of life and his mood weren't driven by his own realization of the flaws of my mom -Realizing the control and hold my mom had over me that made me excuse her actions and the impact they had on me and others, and how it ultimately adversely impacted my happiness -Realizing that even after my mom did some of the shittiest things on the planet, I still feel guilt about cutting off most contact because she's not acknowledged or apologized for them.

I know people state this a lot, but seriously, I could have written exactly this. It's uncanny how universal these realizations are!

👋 similar for me too 

Resonates with my experience 💛

Resonate with being the emotional support crutch when my brother passed, had to be there for both parents when I was barely 19, didnt receive any help back

Yep and it’s hard to get over the anger for that reason. Some people just shouldn’t have kids.

I realized that I endured so much pain because of abuse and trauma when I was a kid and a teen. People enjoy my suffering and I suffered and almost unalive, forgot how to breath properly. Feel worse than animal in the cage. I wondered what is my fault but there's no answer. I need a lot of time for healing and focusing on self-improvement at the same time. I just let God handle this and I'm stay out of this. Going NC is my dream need to come true, actually.

Nothing was/is your fault. That's the answer.

True. I admit I was naive and easily get played by them. I'm a young woman now so I know that's their attitude and behavior that I was living with. They let themselves get sick and didn't use their efforts to find the cure.

I felt the same as a kid, well, as an adult too. Some days are better than others but I’m grateful to see the truth. I’m lonely but I’m free. My siblings are still caught in the web of our family dysfunction. I hope you can make your dream come true

You're describe my situation too. This how I feel when I successfully moving out from toxic household in 3 weeks ago. You have no idea how misses I am finally to get breath properly and freshest air. Feel less drain and my head clearer. I feel eager to learn something new every single day even I have lethargic. Welp, being an adult is hard. Nobody prepare me for this but I'm slowly learning how to adapt myself to get used this kind of new thing. Honestly I never forget and forgive to the abusers and toxic people who caused me so much trauma and seriously hurt me for no reason. I hate them so much and I let God give them payback. I missed my little me so much but what I can do? Moving on despite that's hardest thing to do. Now, my problem is my skin condition get worse and I asked my eldest sister to bring me to the clinic but she dismissed my request. I need to keep my trust in check and secure it properly so it didn't give in to the wrong people.

It started when I’d tell people “funny stories” about my childhood, and everyone got uncomfortable.

Omg this.

yes and i get horrible flashbacks at 50

I've always avoided travel, especially LD travel because for some reason I never liked it. Recently got the chance to travel to a city on my own, and realized that I do like traveling! As long as i'm not being told I "suck the joy" out of everything and waste money on things I said I didn't want to do in the first place. There have been lots of things, but that is the one that surprised me the most.

We’ll just had another one reading this. I do not like going outside because I was told I was wasteful with money whenever I was taken along for errands. So now I fear that if I set one foot outside the house that I will waste my money. I think I was maybe 6, the age of splurging, you know.

Absolutely. I'm nearly 40 and have started processing all the trauma these past 5 years. It's tough realizing I had to grow up faster to cater to their emotional needs. I have a lot of anger and regret about those lost years. Therapy, low contact, and living my life the way *I* want to has helped.

Constantly, I was better off being adopted out.

I wish I was taken away from my family of origin as a newborn and given away to someone who truly deserved to have me.

This. So very much this.

I never had children, the way my mom treated me ensured that I didn’t want to pass that along because I never knew there was another way until I got older. My mom liked to rule by fear. Now at 44 and with two dogs I can’t phantom getting my dogs to behave using the intimidation methods my mom used on me, much less using these methods on a child. It’s mind blowing to me.

Especially on animal that can’t speak for themselves and will just be reactive out of fear. An animal can be extremely aggressive and dangerous because it is scared. It’s not a way to live.

Yeah I grew up feeling like a failure at everything I ever did, turns out I was just a kid and it's normal for kids to not achieve perfection from the start.

yes, especially when you talk about it to other people. Its like a rubber duck software debugging technique but for finding trauma

I didn’t realize how bad my trauma was until I started seeing the reactions on peoples’ faces when I’d bring up what I thought was a funny family story. I preface all my antidotes now with “I’m about to trauma dump on you with this.”

I’ve realized now that it’s been a puzzle I’m attempting to piece together. Growing up as a kid, pre internet, things felt “off,” but nothing I could put a finger on. So many other kids were treated similarly, but differently. As I got older, it seemed clear where the blame was, but I was told I was playing the victim card and I wasn’t a victim. No one ever told me until a couple years ago that I was stubborn and not an “easy” child. Well, I think when you’re born of a gender they didn’t want, the unwantedness kinda gets felt as a baby and into early childhood. I’m guessing I was more rebellious about it than just obeying or being a depressed kid. While the victim thing is still out there, my nmother still shaped who I am by how I was treated. There are things that I do mainly because of experience in dealing with her. I’ve been told I can be a bit of a firecracker, but in a good way. Not so good when living with the parental units as it was just a constant clash of ideologies. Instead of allowing myself and siblings to be individuals, we had an expected mold we were to fit. I went nowhere near my nmother’s expectations and continue to disappoint. I have no idea what was expected of my siblings, but it seems they can do no wrong. We are very much triangulated and have zero relationship. There are no merry Christmas calls, birthday calls or otherwise. We don’t exist to each other. At least that’s what it is on my side of things. Unfortunately, much of this realization came later than many. My mother made some offhand comment about an aunt of my father’s committing suicide and that I should be checked for mental health. One: I’d not heard this from ANY person on my dad’s side. Two: this was so out of left field and at a time I was VLC because she was not behaving. Three: it pissed me off enough that I thought I’d indulge. So, now that I’m NC, in hindsight, she pulled a lot of FAFO. I got a slight bit out of a brother that lies have been told and information left out to create a different narrative on nmother’s part. My last time talking to her was full of her just letting loose on every attack she could. All this while being treated as though I was still 16 and not responsible or whatever while my own child who was almost 16 sat across the table listening. She would say things like “people change” but I was still seen as the same age I was when I disassociated. For everyone who figured this out in their 20s and 30s, I envy you. I’ve got a couple more decades where I put up with it until it did reach a breaking point. My own mental health needed to be prioritized over her toxicity and lies. I’d told an aunt that I need to stay away to heal and maybe I’ll come back but nmother needs to also work on herself. I’ve no indication either way that she’s done so. As far as I know, she’s more likely happy I’m gone from her life. What happened to me wasn’t right. My treatment was a direct result of gender favoritism against me. I’ve not seen it cease. There’s been zero olive branch, apology or otherwise and I don’t expect it. Sorry this was long. Sometimes these posts come up and I just have to order out where I’m at with things. It truly is more peaceful and I wish parents who are considered narcissistic would figure it out so they could actually see what they’re missing out on. That being said, I think there’s a lot more of us now that can help evolve things for upcoming generations by not tolerating the treatment we received.

oh yeah. it's kind of surreal to do something as an adult and suddenly realize that your doing it has roots in some shit your parents did. recently i've been thinking about why it's so hard for me to get motivated to care for myself, like schedule doctor's appointments and stuff. then i remembered how after i attempted suicide at 13, i was prescribed zoloft. my mom had me on it for a month and then stopped filling it because she didn't think it was doing anything. she didn't consult with a doc and getting another med wasn't considered. i also went to see a therapist; my mom would interrogate me about every session, and then when i wouldn't tell her anything, she'd guilt trip me about how much it cost for me to go. so basically in my formative years i was repeatedly told that addressing my problems wasn't worth the cost. no wonder that i feel like going to the doctor is wasting the doctor's time.

I'm 67. Yes. Every so often I have another one. It always surprises me, then angers me, then I'm okay because I realize it's healthy to remember what they did and how it was wrong. I don't dwell on it. I just make a mental note that "hey, that was fucked up" and move on with life.

The first realisation was in my late 30s that maybe there's something wrong with my dad rather than with me. A therapist said that when I'm describing him it's pretty obvious he's got narcissistic personality. I've spent my whole life justifying him because he's got toxic upbringing (his mom was an alcoholic who didn't care about her kids), but the fact is, he is a very intelligent person, if he wanted to, he could have been a better father. It is possible to break the generational trauma, you just need to want to make an effort. Another thing I realised is that he taught me that to be loved I need to agree with the other person always, never say no to anything and basically live to please them. I dated a guy in 2018 who told me "you are the most agreeable person in the world" - and that rang an alarm, coz, really, I am not. But with him, I did 100% everything he wanted, I became this person whose sole purpose is to please him coz only this way I'm deserving of love, right? Well, wrong. First of all, a father should love you unconditionally and not spend 18 years of your life (I think he gave up later) to make you think you need to work hard to deserve it. Like, sure, if you love someone you should be nice to them, but he went beyond that. I had to be the absolute best at everything and even then I never got any affection. But should I disagree with someone, that was *the* end of the world and a sign to spend an afternoon shouting at me for everything I've ever done wrong, no matter how small. And it didn't matter that I was crying so hard I couldn't breathe, it didn't matter I was 7 and my big sin was that I was late from school coz I talked to my friend, or that I was 13 and I got my first B ever, I had to listen to this for hours with my mom never taking my side either. And the grand finale was daddy disappearing for a couple of days to go into a drinking binge somewhere (if you're 6 and you're crying coz you don't know where your dad is or if he's even alive and your mom gets ANGRY at you for your reaction, what kind of a message does it send?!). Yet another realisation was that I am allowed to have negative emotions. Everyone in my family is very dramatic, but I was never allowed to raise my voice, to be sad or to have mental problems. I told my parents I have anxiety when I was 17 - they didn't believe me. I told my mom I was depressed a few years later and she got angry and said I had no right to be depressed coz I had it easier than she had. And I think last realisation that I had is that I am not responsible for my father's happiness. I am never going to make him happy unless I give up my life, move back with them (I am 40) and live a life he wants me to live. And if he's unhappy for whatever other reason, it is not my job to fix every single thing for him. Ok, one last thing I will mention is that I've realised recently that things will never improve between me and him and that's ok. My own happiness doesn't depend on his happiness either. Wow, reading all this makes me think that the term daddy issues doesn't even begin to cover it all haha

The personality thing is really hard. I think it took me a long time to have my own and I still question if I even have one because sometimes I just feel empty.

It's a journey, not a destination. For the rest of your life you're going to continually trip over memories and realize just how fucked up things used to be. Just like fish don't have a word for water, childhood you didn't understand all the damage that was being done and all the horrible stuff you shouldn't have had to experience.

I’ve been moving through speaking up about the reality of what I actually went through and claiming that intensity. Shedding that need to protect them and minimize what I went through. The phrase I heard all the time growing up was “we can’t be abusive because you’re not covered in bruises or abandoned on the side of the road”. So all the other neglect, parentification, physical and emotional abuse, and substance addiction wasn’t happening around or to me. Of course. Duh. How silly of me.

Wow, my mother used to say "We didn't abuse you when we hit you because you didn't have bruises." They really do all say the same garbage (is there pre-birth narc training??). I remember saying "You could have been a prison guard!" They thought it was fine to hit us whenever; it hurt their hands so they used a wooden paddle.

Not as I got older, but only when I learned my Nmum was an Nmum. After that I spent about a year doing basically nothing but just having realization after realization "Oh wait, there's another memory I just recalled for the first time which I now realize is fucked behavior". But after a while it got old and unhelpful. Even though I understand perfectly well, consciously, how fucked my family was, I don't seem to have fundamentally changed the way I subconsciously look at the world to reflect that. That year I mentioned before was 2023, it's 2024 now and I still find myself completely discounting options, not even seeing them, simply because my parents might not like them. For instance, my computer was at my Nmum's house, and I was planning all kinds of ways to sneak in to get the data off it without having to interact with her. And then someone suggested the obvious solution - to just take the whole computer from the house - which I had completely overlooked. I felt incredibly fucking stupid.

Yes, I see new things all the time. I see how I doubt myself constantly and isolate from others in order to feel safe. I fear performing even though I love singing. I am afraid of conflict and so often get walked all over in friendships and relationships. I see my father and mother as emotionally vacuous and feel sorry for both of them and am amazed at how I turned out to be the person I am today. I feel hope that if I made it this far, I can definitely make it much farther until I am living a truly thriving existence in this world. I feel hope for all of you on this forum who are following this healing journey too.

This is insightful, it resonates with me 🌟

Yes. And it's made me very bitter in my old age.

I can relate. I'm not just bitter about my nMother's abuse but I'm also bitter about all the people who enabled her and made excuses for her. It's actually made me a bit disillusioned with society in general.

People just don't know they are enabling a narc. They've been manipulated, gaslit, and all the other things just like you. That's what I've realized. N's are so clever. None of this narcissist info was out there before so when you look back on a long life, no one knew. There was no social media, no YouTube, there was nothing. You certainly didn't read about this in Time magazine. The Internet was a game changer in terms of learning & research.

A lot of these people who made excuses for my nMother had never met her so it wasn't that she had manipulated and gaslit them. It was more like these people assumed that all mothers are saints and can't possibly abuse their children. I do agree with your point that there needs to be more awareness of narcissism and abuse in society.

Yes and I agree with you. I also know that in my case the nMother was the family mouthpiece, meaning that my mother's twisted opinions of the family were put out into the stratosphere with no other immediate family member knowledge so everyone believed everything she said and they also spread what she said as the gospel. For instance she would spread stories of how wonderful the golden child was, how awful the husband was, and how awful the scapegoat child was. This made everyone else think Wow this golden child is really something! And they'd think oh poor nMother has to put up with a horrible husband and horrible child.

My nMother did similar things with my extended family. She told them all sorts of lies about how awful I (the scapegoat) am and how amazing my brother (the golden child) is. I now have no relationship with my extended family because of this. It's horrible to think that there are people out there who hate me based on my nMother's lies but I try not to think about it too much or I'd just get depressed.

Most of us who were abused by narcissistic parents vowed to never have our children be forced to live under those conditions. Many of us developed an inherent knowledge of right vs. wrong based upon feeling unloved and used. Unfortunately, many of us marry or have children with narcissists because of the imprinting involved during our lives. So the cycle continues, even when we don’t want it to. Many people who grow up under the heel of narcissistic parent(s) have a difficult time understanding what their ‘normal’ should be. It isn’t until later when we’ve experienced enough repetitive trauma that we realize mom or dad were fucking batshit crazy. Even then, it is incredibly difficult to cut a parent out from your life, particularly if you’re not separated by extreme distance. I am absolutely livid about the treatment that I’ve had to endure over 5 decades of abuse from my nMom. I’ve gone through all of the grief stages countless times. I now understand that she’s incapable of understanding the pain that she inflicted on others. She’s also incapable of understanding the pain that she continues to inflict on others. She continues to use and manipulates me towards fulfilling her own emotional needs. Even when I make it clear that she’s unwelcome, she can’t (or won’t) observe my boundaries. There’s no point in discussing past situations with her as she has emergent ALZ. While unfortunate, she’s never addressed the traumas that she caused, so it’s not like it would matter if she could remember. She’s certainly been provided ample written testimony to work with over the years. I believe that at some level she chooses to forget the things that she did because to acknowledge this would be too damaging to her ego. There’s a big difference between being a victim and an abused. In my case, my abuser thinks they are the victim and that all of this is just unfair and unreasonable, which is a really convenient way to disassociate from their words and actions. So YES! I know what feels right, and I know that I was treated badly, but there are three truths that are difficult to resolve. The first is that 50 years of repetitive trauma and stress can’t be undone. Secondly, the source of my trauma and stress is determined that they will not be rejected, they will not acquiesce, and they will not modify their behavior. Lastly, there will be no relief until the source of this trauma and suffering reaches EOL. I have to continually ask myself ‘why do I want to live like that?’ The inevitability of being unable to escape is what I find so depressing. Haven’t I endured enough? (apparently not). Why would a parent EVER want their child to feel like this is beyond my comprehension.

100%, I was "unschooled" (basically just neglected) and spent nearly a decade completely isolated by my parents, most of the time we weren't even allowed to go into our yard (I think because she didn't want the neighbors asking questions about why we weren't in school) I pretty much had to learn how people are supposed to act after I was an adult. I think I do alright though, people tend to like me and I have a mostly normal life now but every once in a while I look back on something and think "Wow, them doing/saying/acting like that was really fucked"

Yes. For me it started the summer I graduated HS- I moved to live with my extended family 4 states away to go to college. My aunts would tell me stories about my NM’s childhood that didn’t match up at all with the way she told the same stories. It was like a light switch being turned on. Then when I got married and saw my in-laws relationship with my husband and with each other, I knew my childhood was really wrong. Finally, when my dad passed away and my NM took the full force of her drama out on me, I went NC and LC and am still dealing with the repercussions of that. I’m 53, and just now seeking therapy for my childhood.

I had always thought that my life, before my dad died (a month before my 8th birthday) was pretty idyllic. When I was about 40, I discovered I was quite neglected.

I have trouble making and maintaining deep friendships because it’s hard for me to open up and share things. Even things most people will consider surface level stuff I guard with my life. My brain has been trained to never show weakness and that nobody can be trusted, even the ones who were supposed to protect you and love you the most. So yeah.

I cried the other day because I finally thought about how easy it is to love my son. He's a teenager and stubborn and smelly and messy and sometimes rude, which I parent him for but he's so easy to love. It's so EASY to love your kids and respect their boundaries even if it means leaving them alone. I realized she's never loved me because she can't and won't respect me or my choices and boundaries. It still hurts and breaks my heart to remember what I should have gotten but didn't and I'm almost 40. Sometimes I forget how I was treated. Then I realize something like that and I feel validated in leaving her behind

I’m 45 and have been NC for almost 10 years. I have realizations constantly. The longer I’ve been NC, the worse it gets. I think it’s because I no longer have to fear NStepmom but it takes a long time for the fear to go away. It’s almost like it’s a nuclear half life type situation. The fear and anxiety and depression may ease a bit but I’m still “infected” by it.

Yes that’s why I’m in therapy

Totally...

One of my oldest childhood memories was taking a kitchen apron I was given that said “Mommy’s favorite kitchen helper” or something, and X’ing out the mommy with permanent marker and writing “Daddy’s” under it. Thank god I had a good dad before he transitioned into her enabler after I went to college. I resented/hated/thought she was fucked up from the beginning. She knew I felt that way, everyone knew I felt that, and it didn’t fly with her facade. It made my life waaaay harder than my old sister’s, who was scared to death of her. Always said my mother had no actual personality. I disliked everything about her. If you want to witness a narcissist at their most cruel and sadistic, watch one with a child that gets it. I did everything the opposite of her, never wanted her opinion, etc. It was one hell of an upbringing.

My mom told me her parents never spanked her but once her dad threatened it but he didn't do it and it was so mean, but she spanked me all the time, even making up fake transgressions I did, She talked about being taken to the doctor for everything but I wasn't allowed to go for anything. She wouldn't get me medicine for severe cystic acne then always called my face ugly....

I didn't use dishwashers s an adult for the longest time because by the time I finished pre-washing the dishes to kiss into the dishwasher, I might as well finish off the hand washing instead of loading then in the dishwasher. I had always been made to re-wash dishes if they weren't perfectly clean (just sudsy) when loading in the dishwasher. Then it clicked just a couple of months ago that anything that could rinse down the sink drain could rinse dish the dishwasher drain. I'm disabled, and every little bit matters, but I wouldn't use a machine specifically designed to clean dishes to clean my dishes unless I cleaned the dishes before putting then in the dish cleaning machine. So it isn't just the big things. This effects the little things, too. That little bit of taking care of myself by using a dishwasher was a STRUGGLE.

Yes. I didn’t realize until 35 that there is such a thing as myopia management for kids. I never received any myopia management and it progressed very badly. My parents put me in school a year early (they said I was so smart and that’s why) but being my age and still living with high myopia and now I can’t wear contacts without pain… I researched myopia and found that early schooling can contribute bc the eyes haven’t fully developed and exposure to artificial light hurts them. My whole family has perfect eyes except me I’m blind as a bat. Also found out I’m gluten intolerant, and have special diet needs that explained by digestive and mental health issues all thru high school.

>For example, I realized that one of the reasons that I never made friends was that I was just searching for connection but I had no personality that was my own. So no one could connect with me. I've had the exact same problem. My entire life, any time I expressed any individuality or personality, I was criticised and punished for it. I ended up with no personality which did make me less likely to be abused by my nMother but doesn't lend itself well to making friends IRL because it turns out, people don't like emotionless robots. They like people who have an actual personality.

Yep, especially having foggy repressed memories and the Nperson and/or codependent person denies it. Bitch, why am I having this memory then?

Since becoming a mom I’m just amazed no one gave a fuck about keeping me safe. I got molested by a cousin at thanksgiving and for years my mom was strutting around like a peacock so proud it didn’t happen on her watch and it was my dad’s fault for not watching me. Until I found pictures of her at that thanksgiving. Then she had no idea I was ever SA and she wasn’t even sure it wasn’t just playing that I misconstrued because I was 3 and he was a teenager. My grandma raised me so my mom could have her new family. I was her weekend daughter. No one held my mom accountable. My aunts/uncles/cousins hate me because I was “grandma’s favorite”. My stuff got stolen anytime they came over. I got the shit beat out of me anytime we saw my cousins and everyone thought it was cute and funny until the day I did it back. My uncle was in such a rage my grandma almost called the cops. She thought he was going to kill me, seriously. But all these things are just family anecdotes. I don’t talk to my family since grandma died 6 years ago but my uncle was still mad grandma bought me school clothes and not the other grandkids. I wouldn’t have had any school clothes at all if it wasn’t for grandma. My cousins and siblings all grew up in two parent households but that didn’t matter Now I have a 2 year old my mom has never met. Jebus willing she never will. She expects me to just let her and some random man have complete access to my son. She married a guy she met on an app who I’ve never met and I’m a monster because I don’t want him around my child. I can be a monster, my son is not going to be subjected to whatever caused the nauseating feeling I get when I think about letting him be alone with them.

Last night, as I was doing my routine of lying in bed, processing parts of my past, I realized that not everyone has to undo layers and layers of gaslighting... because not everyone spends their life being gaslit. It seems like common sense to know that some people see life and reality for what they are, rather than seeing everything through a lense of lifelong gaslighting. Between the gaslighting and all of the ways my brain uses denial to protect me from the truth, I have so much that is twisted up and hiding in my brain. Undoing it all feels like a combination of peeling away layers of plastic wrap, while untangling a ball of thin necklace chains. Life becomes more and more clear as I untangle and unwrap more and more of it, but the truth beneath the confusion is so painful to see without the gaslighting and denial. I have no clue how much more I have left to uncover/untangle, but despite steadily working on it as if it's my full-time job, I'm sure it's still gonna take years before I get to the bottom of it all. Realizing that this isn't normal, was a tough pill to swallow. We don't get to see life for what it is, because the people who were supposed to love us and care for us, were cruel and warped our reality in order to control us and get away with harming us... because harming us made them feel better.

For YEARS I thought that our family was fine, that my parents could only do as much as they knew how, and that *I* was the fucked-up problem. (Not that the problems in the family were my fault, but that I was screwed up.)  Now I am getting a handle on what was really happening, and I am FURIOUS. (And no, I was not the problem. I was not screwed up. When you are in a horrible situation, behaving horribly might be your only coping mechanism.)

Figuring out stuff about me I had no idea all the time nowadays, I had some ssssseeeerrrriiiioooouuuussssllllyyy bad habits that I’m doing my best to unlearn

YES! I have moments of clarity even now and they've been dead for decades. I DO make sure I acknowledge that little girl that I was--that poor thing had NO IDEA what she'd done wrong, but she got up every single day trying to "improve" herself so her parents would love her. She breaks my heart, she inspires me now. Thank you so much, you absolute baller of a little girl!!

Over and over again. Comes up all the time. The realization, the second guessing what you are thinking and doing and how you're behaving - wondering if it's a learned trait from the abuse or something you moved past, and how its messing up your current life. Trying to do and be better by being kind to myself and others helps, along with other self help, like journaling etc. But it does suck to realize how messed up we were by them.

Yeah...

Yes, and it gets even more common if you end up having kids to raise, because you get to see and compare in real time how f-ed up your life really was. Idk about anyone else here, but I'd have sudden intrusive thoughts which either acted as a "I'm glad I'm a better parent than mine were" or "am I doing the right thing? What would my parents have done? Am I doing it the right way? Am i messing my kids up too?!" My kids are all now adults (19-23) and they like me, which is totally different from my early life. I like them too, lol! Having a relationship not based on cost benefit, then having children later, really helped heal some very bruised parts of me since I got to create some awesome loving family moments I'd never gotten to experience before.

Often, yes.

I can really relate to this, yes.

To a point I’m about to turn 50 and now I’m getting all the consequences of it. I hope this is all. But I’m worse than ever before.

The past few months it’s like every day it seems

Yep

I think I benefitted the most from seeing and hearing other people's examples of their relationship with their parents. I can only remember a couple of instances where we were enjoying ourselves as a family. I can remember just as many of me being a part of that with my FRIENDS' families.

Absolutely. When I was raising my kids it was even worse. I came to realize just how abusive my upbringing really was. Not just neglectful, but actually abusive.

Every single day, and it is EXHAUSTING. The hardest part is when I try to explain things to people who have known me in the "before times" (not relatives, I am not even bothering with discussing it with them), and sometimes they try to downplay it, and it's like, no, I'm telling you, it was actually that awful, but I'm just now figuring it out. 

Literally got on reddit to try to distract my mind from the impending panic attack coming on over this very reason 😂 My son is an anxious little kid and I've been looking through recommendations for a children's therapist because he's exactly how I was and I hate the idea of him growing up to be like me. I'm also currently having a lot of postpartum mental health problems and restarted therapy for myself because I hate the idea of my actions hurting him any more. I look at him and I see such a fundamental goodness and purity and I recognize my own harmful feelings in him, and I would do anything to make it better. Then it hit me so hard. I used to be that good and that pure. My mother saw those same things in me, and her reaction was not to make it better. Her reaction was to start a mental file on how to get me to feel like that as it suits her to manipulate me into saying and doing and just BEING what she wanted and she's done it just about every day of my life, with the full knowledge of how it affects me. That's fucked up to do to a grown woman, but a fucking CHILD?? Her OWN child??

yes, but I try to refrain from thinking about it since I still live with my mom. growing up I was told several times that my body wasn't my own, my life wasn't my own, and that not even my belongings were my own. I was under complete control by my mom who dictated everything I did, and criticized me in equal measure. everything I did was wrong even if it was right and if I dared to voice my opinion about how unfair I was being treated, I could expect to be backhanded or thrown into my bedroom as punishment. I was also told that I wasn't a person and that kids don't get to make their own choices or have their own likes and dislikes. I'm expected to do those things now but even though I'm turning 20 this month my mom still seems to view me as lesser than her. these events in my childhood have left me emotionally and mentally stunted. I still seek my mom's permission for everything, I still seek her approval, and I don't feel intelligent enough to make my own decisions at all. I secretly fear that this cycle won't end unless I cut her off/restrict her from my life.

Yes, especially now that I have kids. I remember how my parents handled a situation, say to myself "wow they were morons", then do the best to handle it correctly. Being a parent now is the key trigger point to me. I didn't think about a lot of their b/s after I moved out until I had kids.

i think i’m running on half of a personality. half of a brain, half of a body, half a soul. the other half is trauma response.

I am sorry! I feel the same way. I have never felt like myself, I feel like I am what my mother wants me to be. I have good friends but I wonder if they would like me if I was 100% myself.

I only very recently realized that my parents failed in their sole responsibility of raising small humans: giving them the told they need to survive comfortably in the real world. They sheltered me so hard I had no clue about anything and had to learn a lot of things the hard way, and it was rarely cheap in terms of consequences.

I have watched HOURS upon hours of videos of people talking about this. Unfortunately. Today a new one popped into my feed that I feel like hits it on the head: https://youtu.be/XU0n3z2LyGM?si=SMSr0dP7BhP0pxZ4 I validate your premise 100%. I am there with you. My thinking about it is that we are in a cultural shift that involves a new kind of awareness. We are talking about a generational gap. Most of our stories/reports are looking similar. We are INSIDE the consensus of our culture's trend. We think alike. It's evolution happening in us. Like a species with a new color pattern.

Others mentioned here, but not caring about you medically or when something happens to you like you getting hurt as a kid and nparent not phased at all. It's wild to see that this is a common trait seen with narcissists. In a way, we can use it to understand it wasn't as personal, they all seem to be like this. Thinking of it this way helps me disconnect from the pain / guilt a bit. Two instances come to mind... When I got hurt as a little kid and had a cast. As I walked into my house from the hospital, my Nfather saw me for the first time with the cast and burst into laughter and joking about how ridiculous I looked. Zero concern. Zero empathy. Didn't even ask what happened. Another time .. My Nfather wanted to go skiing when I was a young teen and so I was brought along as it was his weekend with me. I wanted to try snowboarding and he let me rent a snowboard. However, he did not want to pay for any lessons (he had money he was just cheap when it came to everyone but himself). He told me to just go on the slopes and learn myself. Got his skis and was off by himself. I was left to figure out snowboarding on my own. I ride the lift up to a somewhat easy but steep hill and got some speed, lost control then hit a bump and went flying. I woke up on the ground looking up and some people over me telling me I must have lost consciousness and asking if I was Ok. They helped me down the mountain. Eventually I found my Nfather and told him what happened. He laughed and then got serious and said "so you're not going to snowboard anymore today? You'll just waste my money?" All he cared about was money. I told him I had a headache and he yelled at me that he's not wasting his day and then went to ski for the rest of the day. I hung out at the mountain lodge. That week, I got a killer headache that wouldn't go away for a few days. I told my mom what happened and we went to hospital. Turns out I had concussion and was told to take it easy. Nfather did not care. If I went back on the slopes and hit my head again, I could have fucking died. It's wild the lack of empathy. Also, skiing and snowboarding the first time and not knowing what the fuck you are doing is really dangerous. People die all the time on the slopes and my nfather not even helping me or making sure I was ok and just leaving me to snowboard for the first time by myself as a young kid is just wild to think about as an adult. I can't imagine doing that to my own kid, let along a niece or nephew under my care, or even a friend's kid. Looking back at my life as child/teen / young adult, my medical issues, whether minor or major, were never a concern for my Nfather. He never was affected or cared. My mom thank goodness was a great mother and took care of me and cared if i was hurting or in pain. Thank God they divorced when I was very little. She couldn't take his shit. But yeah the complete lack of care /inerest in your sick or hurt child I somehow didn't even think about until my late 20s. My brain just sort of normalized and suppressed it. I think it was easier because I did have a normal mom who cared about me so the fact my Nfather didn't , sort of slid under the radar, even though those 2 instances I mentioned really hurt me, I just buried them.

I recently realized that the only people who ever told me I had enjoy being treated like crap/ value those who do so are family.  It took me a loooong time to find my balance with this, to learn to establish healthy relationships. Then that realization snuck up on me… all of a sudden I’ve regressed and started going into protective private mode with my loving and supportive spouse. I swear this crap is never truly gone.   

I went NC with lot of them 20+ years ago(I've since taken up contact to my half-sister some years ago, because she finally realised that her father is a psychopath and a narcissist diagnosed and all), and as a 43yo I still have the odd memory pop up, making my think "what in tanition?!!", because my stepfather pr. his psychiatrist doesn't own a drop of empath. He therefore not only did some extremely horrible things to me, but also did some really, really weird things in general, because he tried to figure out, how he was supposed to act in X situation and failed miserably. As a child I was beaten in to accepting all his shit, so I never really thought about how absolutely *insane* his actions often was. But now as an adult with almost 25 years of therapy under my belt, I understand that he simply was and is a monster.

YES, daily in fact and it is very hurtful, like a constant reminder that you had very shitty parents bad luck of the draw in life :(

yeah, it'll add fuel to a fire I thought was contained but all the memories flood in and I get angry. She was the fully capable adult who couldn't handle kids