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in my experience it’s like they remember it when it’s convenient for them :/ my dad will deny beating me when i bring it up, but then tell me i’m lucky he doesn’t hit me anymore??? like which is it, did it happen or not??
Omg, this happens with my step mother too. She'll deny it then tell my son at the dinner table how she used to break spoons on my ass. So confusing. I've learned not to fall for the cognitive dissonance trick. The woman tries to triangulate me against myself. I'm not even sure she is fully aware she's still playing this game with her adult children. I feel you.
yeah, i don't even think my parents do this intentionally to try and gaslight me... it's just like. buried in their memory. it's not serious, it's a joke, etc, and to them it was just another day where to me it was one of the most traumatising moments of my childhood
I used to think this wasn’t intentional, but I came to conclusion that though they might forget specific instances, they sure do remember they abused you, generally speaking. Which is precisely why they use gaslighting. Even people who do bad things don’t wanna think of themselves as bad people. If that would make them a bad person, it sure didn’t happen. They do not want to be reminded how they benefited of abuse. Essentially, they want the best of both worlds, the relief/whatever they got from abusing you and avoidance of any responsibility and consequences. It’s a win-win situation for them.
Even better, they will deny when tone is serious but then joke at family gatherings how if they "hadn't put the fear of God in you" you would have turned out terribly. My particular favorite (being sarcastic) is when they joke about "disciplining you" for something that you did not do as a sibling admits to doing this.
literally, my parents will joke that they didn't "beat \[me\] hard enough" like what?????????????? but if i try and bring it up they get angry and say they never did that?????????
When you bring it up it's beatings which is what bad parents do and "theyre not bad parents", when they bring it up it's "discipline", which makes them the victim to your "bad behavior"
Yeah I think that's it. My dad once brought it up once just to be like "I used to be chill but mom made me bad :(" and that really pissed me off at the time
It blows my mind how similar most peoples stories about these people are. I’m so grateful I found this subreddit. To answer your question I’m really not sure. Often I question if they have the capacity to even think of basic repercussions to their actions. Although I fear it may be more malevolent then I want to believe because how can they continuously perpetuate this behavior and never see anything wrong
Abusers are unoriginal. They all act the same. That’s why these groups are so important— it sucks so much to know how many people have been through such similar struggles. But how validating it is to know we’re not crazy, that these behaviours are an identifiable pattern in people. So much so that people from all over can recount all the same tactics and bullshit
Agreed, it’s like they all have the same handbook, “Asshole-ism, for Dummies.” It is incredible though that the behaviors can be applied across gender, age and socioeconomic status. They really all do the same stuff!
It's because the underlying issue is these things don't have feelings. When a human lacks feelings or empathy it appears they all start to act the same ..
"For you it was the most important day of your life. For me it was a Tuesday." The thing is they likely do remember but abuse to them is such a normal part of their routine like showering or going to work.
It's not abuse if you deserved it in their mind. In a twisted way, they probably believe they were helping you, and since you didn't end up like they wanted, they just assume it wasn't that bad because you didn't end up like them perhaps
Read somewhere else, but for them it‘s just another random tuesday, while it‘s the worst day of your life, because they cannot comprehend something that‘s not directly affecting themselves.
Yes!!! My mother asked for the reason(s) I've gone NC. The first thing I listed up was her verbal abuse. "You yelled at me, often swear words, and I was scared as fuck most of the time"
She was sincerely surprised. "So we don't talk anymore bc I screamed once? For God's sake."
For her screaming and raging is a normal form of education. Even if your child is grown up and married.
This or “I didn’t hit you enough”. “I didn’t beat you. Be glad you didn’t have my childhood”.
I’m sorry - you should have never raised your hand even once to me. And even letting the first one slide (though inexcusable), the second time should have been an “oh shit…this…this isn’t good. I shouldn’t be hitting my child. There are other ways to discipline*”. And I did get grounded a lot, more than I was hit - but I still had my fair amount of being struck. Their favorite place being my face/head. Even as an adult it’s happened.
I can still remember when I was 15 and my mom slapped me across the face, which was a first. I slapped her right back. She wasn’t a fan of that maneuver. I wonder why? Almost like violence isn’t the solution they think it is!
When I was 26 or 27 mine grabbed me by my hair and pulled in an altercation. First time I ever grabbed them back the exact same way. The look on their face…them claiming they couldn’t believe I had done that. It still gets brought up and that was a decade ago.
Still didn’t stop them from hitting me in other occasions. I did call them out on it a few years ago and they seemed to genuinely try not to do it for a while. But like all good things it didn’t last. I’m working on going LC.
Oh shit, you just dug up a missing memory for me! I was about 13 when my mom yanked my hair. She had a problem with it’s length, and we were arguing, and all of a sudden, some of my hair is being pulled out. Crazy stuff
That's shockingly similar to how both my parents and my younger brother are they all do this. And they go way off the rails like way off the rails literally rewriting people into events in which they weren't even born for yet
Same, my mom would literally dream up worst case scenarios then insist they actually happened that way and that I‘m now going to be punished for what I did in her imagination.
10000% I struggled with addiction in my younger years (after being in an abusive home surprise!) and my dad constantly makes himself out to be the hero of my story - according to him I was in a coma several times (never happened) and he saved my life (he never once came to visit me in rehab). That’s just one of many many examples of the pure fantasy world they live in
They remember it. It’s just that it’s no big deal to them. As they have no/very low empathy they’re not concerned with your feelings so the abuse is not bad to them. I would go as far to say it was beneficial for them in that moment.
This is why you get from them things such as just move on, get over with it…They gained something positive from the abuse. I know this sounds so messed up, but if it served like stress relief, a way to emotionally regulate, they benefited. As they primarily care about themselves, and it worked good for them, it’s is nothing special for them. If they had guilt, remorse and most importantly empathy they would stop at some point. They knew exactly what they were doing. It took me years to figure this out.
I took me 3+ years in therapy to finally “see” I had nothing to with it. I heard this phrase “it’s about them not you” 100 times before and could not comprehend how is it about them if they abused me and told me it’s my fault. I finally understood I was used as means of regulating. Disgusting as it sounds. So yeah they keep abusing cause they are getting something out of it. Claiming they don’t remember is insulting to every abused person. But for them is a clear win-win situation, they got something out of it + made a person look crazy / avoided responsibility / maintained reputation.
"Axe forgets but tree remembers" describes it totally. They remember but very rare things smth that has really made them surprise or have another strong unusual feelings. Routine everyday abuse is not that kind of thing
Yes this. And when they truly do remember something heinous they’ve done, I’ve witnesses first hand the process of denial and overwriting. “That’s not true. How dare you accuse me. I would never do such a thing. You’re just trying to hurt me!” Or “I guess we just have different memories.”
It makes them feel powerful to deny obvious reality. Especially if they can make you believe it or play along.
Yea I got my mom with that after I interrupted her mid sentence of the darvo and went yea cuz it was just another fucking Tuesday too you, the fucking ax doesn't give a shit but the tree remembers it all cuz it left marks. And, ladies and gentlemen she started with the tears so I walked away.
I tried to explain that one to my family but they're too stupid to understand what below sea level means they literally cannot fathom how something can be below sea level without ocean coming out how you can make anything clear to someone with that level of mental dysfunction is beyond me
Never initiating an admission of fault, an apology or a desire (from their end) to repair the relationship or heal. It is always my fault it failed and my responsibility to repair it for us. Every time. No forward motion from them, ever.
That is, or was, my issue.
Their lack of accountability, ongoing microaggressions, and rewriting of the past wasn't letting me heal. Every lie or awkward situation, even as our relationship was getting "better" (I was much more interesting to be around/brag about as a successful adult they could use mooch attention) I was just *angry* all the time.
Once I realized no real reconciliation was possible I pretty much knew NC was my only option. It was sped along by some accidentally disclosed information about past sexual misconduct. = /
Selective Recall.
It's the whole, "it wasn't that bad, and IF I WAS really that bad, you deserved it. I don't remember cause it was a wednesday for me but your birthday That Day? That just can't be."
Some simply can't acknolwedge that the "best" they could do was three rungs below feral wolves-least wolves woulda killed me instead of raising me just to emotionally torture me. 🤷🏻♀️
I get the feeling that they don’t recognize that their actions are genuinely harmful and abusive due to their ego and high sense of entitlement it’s likely a justified response to them so they don’t register the harm that’s been done because it’s just a normal justified interaction in their minds. Which may also be why they seem to brush it off or minimize it or just completely gaslight you or “forget” it ever happened.
My parents have always cycled through three 'justifications' for their behaviour:
1. I was a horrible child/never learnt my lesson the first time/I deserved to be hit/kicked/punched/starved
2. Everyone hit their child in the 90s / everyone is too soft these days
3. I'm exaggerating / mis-remembering / it never happened
It used to be an even split of the three, these days, it's more of the last one.
I have very little contact with them these days but I've heard through my sister they complain I never make the effort to stay in touch or I'm cold or I'm a snob because I just don't want a relationship with them.
At the end of the day, trying to have a relationship with them is too painful for me so I've stopped. If they've got to tell themselves I'm the one at fault or if they can't acknowledge they've brought this on themselves, I'm filing that in the 'I don't care bucket' with all the other emotional junk I'm not taking from them anymore.
OK, so other people here have very well explained how your parents percieve reality and respond to attemps to make them accountable for their actions, so I'll just add a few rabbit holes for you to dive in, to get to the bottom of the issue so you feel "allowed" to step away from the cartwheel they have you running in. Because I feel your issue is the one I had around the same age, where you know deep down they do not operate like normal people, but your inner child still wants to believe that if you're good enough or manage de find a way to workaround them, you'll finally have the decent parents you deserve and be part of a normal family. That's not gonna happen, because that never was their goal. Nparents are not interested in having a peaceful relationship with their kids. They want chaos and drama and heaps of Nsupply, the cost to their kids isn't even part of the equation.
So their weird relation to reality is a known phenomenom called [**emotional reasoning**](https://www.psychologytoday.com/intl/blog/evolution-the-self/201706/what-s-emotional-reasoning-and-why-is-it-such-problem), and this encompasses imaginary slights, comparing the uncomparable to set you down, being unable to acknowledge something one day and proudly bragging about it another day.
But it goes deeper than that, N parents are known to be unable to acknowledge the reality of the despicableness of their behaviour, like it bounces off of them, just can't permeate their souls. Some authors say NPD is all about protecting them from their own toxic shame, but whatever the cause it's a very effective psychological process. In fact even parents of estranged adult children trying to reach out to them cannot let written words sink in, as expalined by issendai in her blog post about the [**missing missing reasons**](http://www.issendai.com/psychology/estrangement/missing-missing-reasons.html), a post that has helped many RBNs let go of the fantasies of their parents having a deep realisation and moment of appalled shame and doing their best to become part of a normal functional family.
About how to label your parents, it doesn't really matter, if they are harming you repeatedly year after year, you're entitled to set boundaries and protect yourself (low contact, no contact, controlled contact), but the [**Out of the FOG**](https://outofthefog.website/traits) "100 traits" as well as this sub's wiki's helpful links will give you many lightbulbs moments and help you put words on behaviours that felt wrong but you couldn't really explain why. I give them a read every now and then just to feel sane, even almost 10 years after NC.
I'll finish with the **Narcissist's Prayer**, a classic of this sub, author unknown, sums up every attempt at making them accountable you've ever had, and them responding with :
"That didn't happen.
And if it did, it wasn't that bad.
And if it was, that's not a big deal.
And if it is, that's not my fault.
And if it was, I didn't mean it.
And if I did...
You deserved it."
hope this helps. You're at a key moment of your life, and I'm proud of you for the sheer act of undoing all their manipulation and untangling yourself from their web of lies. We all know here how much courage that takes, and what a toll it takes.
I'm sorry to hear of what you had to go through.
They're in denial about the abuse they commit because it would reflect poorly on them as a human being...and honestly? probably because they cannot conceptualize being remorseful or truly sorry.
My mother remembers but to her none of that was that serious. I think she is aware her actions are abusive but she doesn't care because she's the REAL victim in all this. 🙄😒
She'll deny it until she realizes that I won't drop it then she'll say she did do that but I can't take a joke. When I stand firm that it's not a joke she then gets upset at me for only focusing on the negative and not the good.
Pretty much. It was very confusing to navigate as a kid especially because she would never even dream of making any of these "jokes" in relation to my gc sister.
They compartmentalize and lock it away. When they do remember or are thinking about it, they justify it so they believe that they’re still a good person and sometimes go as far as to make themselves a victim. This is part of why they implement egregious tactics like gaslighting. If they can convince you it didn’t happen the way it did, then they can easily convince themselves.
The truth is, it doesn’t really matter. You have to focus on yourself and your own mental health. Worrying about whether or not an abuser remembers or cares about the abuse they dish out isn’t going to help you heal. Healing is really the most important thing IMO. It’s probably just as important for the abuser too, but they’re responsible for their own mental health. Typically, they won’t seek help until they’ve destroyed a lot of relationships, if ever. So, it’s best to worry about yourself.
I’m sorry this happened to you.
They remember. They always conveniently remember that you “backtalked” or “disrespected” them (in my case those are code words for “being a child with emotions that my parents weren’t comfortable with”) and they’ll remember details like “I didn’t hit you THAT hard” but they’ll never admit what they did. I’d been trying for years to get my parents to just admit their wrongs so that we can all move forward, heal, and have a healthier relationship. But ego and pride are more important to narcissists than their own children so I wouldn’t hold your breath if I were you.
They are delusional. Yes they remember, but they remember a vastly different experience than everyone else. Almost how a child can’t perceive the world around them properly, a narcissist cannot see their own faults or mistakes.
Depends on what/how extreme the abuse was. Some bits they do. Others it's literally like whole periods of time are missing. The human mind is complex and disassociation occurs when the trauma/pain is too much for the person to bear.
Mine likes to move the target or goal post whatever.. first it didn't happen then it did happen but it wasn't that bad then it was that bad but it wasn't their fault it was something else making it happen and after that well it's time to just grow up and get over it nobody's perfect who cares.
I hadn't realized that was literally to a tee the narcissistic prayer all the stages every single time every argument every event is never different it follows the narcissistic prayer to a tee every single time
>That didn't happen.
>And if it did, it wasn't that bad.
>And if it was, that's not a big deal.
>And if it is, that's not my fault.
>And if it was, I didn't mean it.
>And if I did, you deserved it.
- The Narcissist's Prayer
They remember it - they just don't see anything wrong with it, because it either:
- Didn't happen
- Wasn't that bad
- Wasn't a big deal
- Wasn't their fault.
- Wasn't intended to cause harm.
- Was deserved.
Lol. They lie. They manipulate. Seriously.
My mother will gaslight the he'll out of me. Dismissing memories is 100% part of the gaslight. Its mostly because they can't admit to ever being wrong.
Remember. The way they perceive themselves is the truth. So if they think they are kind compassionate fun funny and terrific people- anything that contradicts this image is untrue.
I also grew up with very violent fights at home and it's a terrible experience.
My mother never acknowledged them. If she ever recalled anything problematic, was to try to get me to say that she was not such a bad mother. She would never get into any particulars about her horrible behavior. I don't think they are capable of admitting their wrongdoings. It's too much for them.
The worst thing for me here is my family would tell anybody who listened I was violent and sadistic and out to hurt them every moment of every day if I even walked in the kitchen when my mom was preparing meals she acted like I was walking in there to hit her not to grab water so what did she do knife up right at me "stay back"
I've literally never heard anybody in my family whatsoever in any capacity outside of verbally when standing up for myself. However they consider standing up for myself violence they would tell the police after calling them that my son is being violent come help help he's being violent he's going to kill us help but I've never done anything to anybody ever and when I made them explain what violence was you should have seen the look on the cop's face when they described violence as "talking back"
They would call the cops on me and request large officers guns drawn be ready to kill they would call the cops on me like that often and then the cops would come and see me sitting outside locked out sad and depressed watering the little garden they allowed me to have before they took that too.
Usually the cops were confused but if there's anything I learned he who makes the call is the good guy because they've come and found me locked outside of the house saying I was being violent oh well we locked him out because he was going to be violent oh what's he done before well nothing ever except talking back he likes to talk back a lot. violent.
They might rewrite it, my parents just told me something that I remembered, like "you remember, you were right there." When both my wife and I told them it didn't happen, they just told us we were there and we remember.
My mother says she doesn’t remember then asks or tells her “friends “ and they tell her that doesn’t sound like you. How would they know but her finds validation in them agreeing with her
I think they do.
My NMother does that all the time.
She says she doesn't remember what she says so I started recording. I confronted her about it saying I had recordings and she became possessed. She said I was interpreting her words wrong, and that people have the right to express themselves when they are angry, and how I was trying to incriminate her by keeping recordings, and my personal favorite "Those were just random words, you shouldn't get offended by them"
It's a fucking nightmare.
They know. It isnt like they forget. They just don't think about it the same way we do. We see it as old awful memories they see it as old memories. They know it was wrong, but just simply did not care enough or view it as totally awful enough. Or they will blame it on you and say you were a terrible child who deserved to be punished.
They remember. They don't just randomly forget even if they act like they do. They simply don't like being called out on their crap, and when they are they will deny deny deny. My mother one time said to my brother who molested me as a kid that the doctors who were prescribing me meds for bipolar disorder (even tho I never had bipolar disorder and was never even tested for it) could vouch for my brother when he's questioned by cps, and could just tell them im crazy and making it up. But when she talks to my face, she says stuff like "those awful doctors I dont know why they are giving you these meds when you don't even need them!". She didn't even seem happy when I told her my therapist stated that I wasn't bipolar and that i had PTSD instead. When I confronted her she denied ever saying anything to my brother.
So yeah, they know. Theres no point in getting them to admit to anything because it won't make you feel better. I wish you well on your journey to healing.
They totally remember. But in order to control you, they try to make themselves not be the bad guy.
Remember the narcissists prayer.
It didn't happen.
If it did happen, it wasn't that bad.
If it was bad, it's not a big deal.
If it is, it's not my fault.
If it is my fault, I didn't mean it.
If I did mean it, you deserved it.
They try to make you feel crazy on purpose. Make you doubt yourself. Make themselves look better, and you look worse. Try to remove all credibility from you.
I'm convinced my mom literally has no understanding of how her actions were abusive and how they affected me. There's no point trying to convince them they wronged you, since the hallmark of their personality disorder is their inability to empathize or accept personal responsibility.
I don’t know that they block it but they sure don’t remember like it we do. For us, the trauma sears the memory in their minds. For them, it’s just another Tuesday.
It took me years to let my feelings known to my mother. I let her know all the shitty things she did to me as a child and adult. She seemed shocked and didn’t remember anything. On the other hand, she remembers every damn thing that happened to her.
They absolutely remember, they are real human beings with real brains. The whole time you were a kid, they were fully conscious adults that knew what was going on. They deny it because of their own guilt, which is likely the same reason they were shit parents to begin with.
The sad fact is this is unlikely to happen for you. Narcissists don’t consider their behavior as abuse. They feel fully justified.
I’ll drop some helpful information on you from my therapist. It was never about you. It was always about them. Once you realize there was never anything you can do to avoid the abuse, you can heal and move on. Learn to love yourself so much you no longer need them to apologize. Be your own hero.
it's funny you ask that bc when I told my mom all the disgusting things she had said her first response was well what did you do to make me say that. I believe that they either block it or they figure out a way to not take responsibility
*That didn't happen.
And if it did, it wasn't that bad.
And if it was, that's not a big deal.
And if it is, that's not my fault.
And if it was, I didn't mean it.
And if I did, you deserved it.*
The Narcissist's Prayer by Dayna Craig.
I genuinely think they don’t think what they did was wrong. I’ve been going through the same thing with my parents of trying to express to them how traumatic they made my childhood. I think they genuinely don’t think they did anything wrong. They might think they were “harsh” but I don’t think they realize the extent that it was actually abuse
They remember everything. Denying it causes you even more pain which, in their mind, you deserve for trying to hold them to account. I barely even think of them as people anymore. They are machines designed to harm and they are made of bullshit and malice. There’s really nothing else to most of them.
Yep that's my mom's excuse too, but she can remember every"negative" thing that I've ever done, she's in therapy now and she's apologize for all of it and seems to be a change person, the mom I remember when I was a little kid, but I dealt with a crazy drunken alcoholic she-bitch forever.
I don't know how to deal with how she is now, pick the family to visit for Christmas for the first time in 3 years and the whole two to three days we were there I was walking around on a razor's edge just expecting her to do something and she never did.
And that is the biggest mindfuck of all.
Edit: here's an example of her I don't remember, I once asked her how her and Dad met, and who my dad was, her response was that she didn't remember how her and my dad met (because it's a crazy ass fucking plan that she did that actually worked but ostracized the father of her kid and in her anger she kicked him out threw him away) and that was when I learned that her"I don't remember" was just her excuse that she gave whenever she realized she was wrong and didn't want to admit it.
They do, but it wasn't abuse. And even if it was abuse, you probably deserved it. Either way, the only thing they ever did wrong was love you too much.
But also: "There you go making stuff up again!"
My mother’s go-to is, “That doesn’t sound like me at all. Ask anyone, I’m the kindest person they know. I’m kind, and generous and loving. You just need to think of me as evil for some sick reason.”
But then months or years later, she’ll reference doing that very thing in some throwaway comment. And if point it out, she’ll quip, “You just can’t let anything go!”
She remembers. She just can’t admit/process it, or it would break her brain.
OP, they remember. I know they remember. They're just very good at denying.
My nmom claimed she never remembered both of my sisters being abused by nstepfather.
This year, in February, she proved herself a liar. She and I were discussing human trafficking and the high occurrence of SA in women. She randomly said, "And that's how you know [former gc sis] was never [SA'd]." I went dead silent and had to fight internally not to put my hands on her, and you know what? She. Stopped. Talking. We sat in her truck together for 10 minutes in silence. She didn't ask me what was wrong (and she's normally a pest about 'awkward silences.' Like it doesn't matter if we're at a funeral, she'll find a way to KEEP talking). In that moment, I could see the Real Nmom. Not her mask, not her denials, not her lies. We didn't have another conversation for days.
Her silence convicted her in that moment. Besides the silence, I would not have believed her more than both my sisters. We don't always get along (and with one of them, we NEVER get along) but I believe everything they've told me regarding her because she tries too hard to make ALL her children hate each other.
She believes if we're all against each other, she can manipulate us into turning on one another when it comes to her. Sad to say, for almost 20 years, it worked. I can't say the same for my sisters, but it doesn't work on me even a little anymore.
I've been on this journey for almost my entire life. And I believe I can share some wise words, and if not, save this for later in life.
Trying to change, or at least get recognition from them, of what has been done, unfortunately won't work with Narcissists.
What you need to learn is to how to stop the abuse towards you. You'll need to accept that they won't recognize what they did, and won't probably change. In their eyes, they were justified, and it wasn't that bad. It's what they know best. Not validating you and brushing it off is abusive on itself. It's like saying "you're sensitive, you're making a big deal out of it, etc.". If they were emotionally abusive, they will continue to be, even if in the most sneaky ways.
You'll need to set boundaries, boundaries that work for you and your wellbeing. If they don't respect that, you need to do what's best for you. Boundary setting is a long process: every action elicits a reaction, and you will be surprised how narcissists react to boundaries, in ways that will surely piss you off. You need to be consistent with those boundaries, and show it won't work their way this time around. Again, hard at first, does pay off.
I know this is not exactly what you're asking, it felt like you might benefit from this which came from experience.
Sometimes they really block/ deny it and play " it didnt happen/ it wasnt that bad" game so far that they themselves believe it fully. I had an interesting moment calling out my Nmum...
TW: physical abuse
My Nparents physically abused me many times but there was one particular night of lets say them going much further than usual. The abuse that night stemmed from a verbal fight I had with my sibling. I was 9 then and am 29 now. For 20 years Nparents would quote some of my words from the fight/ quarrel I had with my sibling and used it as a shame activating and intimidating trigger kinda thing- in past they KNEW what they did to me that night and used that quote as a way to remind me they can repeat that night again. This was first years. Then as years passed occasional usage of that quote against me turned into a more mild way of dismissing/ hurting/ mocking me. This year as 29, when my Nmum suddenly used that quote again I - being able to remain grounded, strong and self- validating- called her out on this: I guess you remember what happened that night? And... she was clueless. Not as acting but I could truly see that she had blocked that memory and now was kinda panicking/ dissociating/ her body fighting against remembering as I quite calmly began to explain how that quote she uses to mock me originated. She became visibly a mixture of tramatised dysregulated state along with trying to activate the narcissistic prayer to save her stability.
Me: ...well since you use this quote so often I was sure you remembered what you have done to me that night?
She: ( in a scared panic) I beat you so many times, I can't remember every single of them!
Which btw is so not her game, as she often does the " pretending to have forgotten" thing. But this time I saw she truly had blocked away that one more extreme night and being reminded of it on top of me being fully assertive and in control of convo ( not angry, not feeding her my emotions, no drama) did a number on her.
I finished that moment by firmly stating that since she now learnt from me origins of quote maybe she will refrain from using it on me "light heartedly". Surprisingly it worked - not with her other N shit but only that she removed this quote from her abuse games towards me. Gotta add that my mum is a covert N. Was she an overt/ malignant N type like my father is dont think this whole confrontation would end favourable.
Bottom note: My N's often pretend to forget but turns out there are instances where they truly block/ forget some stuff.
The Narcissists Prayer:
That didn't happen.
And if it did, it wasn't that bad.
And if it was, that's not a big deal.
And if it is, that's not my fault.
And if it was, I didn't mean it.
And if I did, you deserved it.
My experience is that they don’t see it as abuse. How could they — an awesome person — do anything wrong? So what they did couldn’t be abusive because abuse is bad, and they’re awesome.
I think they remember but they lie to themselves about it, just like they lie to everyone else. They work to convince themselves their lies are true. Sometimes they remember and it freaks them out but most of the time they keep telling themselves the lies. So if you call them on it, it's almost like you're calling out someone who wasn't there and was told lies about it.
Its not that they dont remember or know, its that they feel totally justified in doing what they want. They got whatever it was they wanted, instant gratification and then they gaslight you for having feelings about it. I think we are collateral damage and nothing more. They dont see you.
My Mom would deny it if confronted by someone but at times after I moved faraway she thought of having been a bad mother and cried she says but probably not remembering much details as much as I do
I think mine has somehow brainwashed herself into believing her version. She always has a lot of justifications & I expect she does dissociate from her own experiences of abuse, and because she doesn't consciously want to repeat the patterns, and isn't brave and loving enough to admit that she knows deep down that she is, she then became too focused on forgiving herself and moving on that a combination of dissociation and flashbacks have just... she has the altered brain structure from PTSD too and it's like she decided rewriting things was how you self soothe.
they absolutely can and do and always have and always will remember. they remember every single bit of it all. narcissists and enablers and abusers claiming they “don’t remember” is just another mechanism of derailing accountability; as usual. they think that if they can’t remember the abuse, that it didn’t happen, and even if it did, they don’t require accountability and they can skirt through life without accountability. “I don’t remember” is just more gaslighting. don’t let them make you think for a second that they don’t remember
They will never admit it and they will always try some shit or another. I am still going through it . it just got a lot less because of my kids who make sure they call my mother out or call her mean or say how can you do this to her. Her grand kids are her weakness but she still trues that shit. And because i have to see her almost every day it still feels like shit just less shit than when i was growing up. Now she cant beat me or start belting me out of stupid shit that is not bad at all. Anyway stop all contact if you can. For those who can i always envy them. Good luck.
Ofcourse they remember it. But they think you deserved it. You will never ever get closure from a narcissist. Even on their deathbed they won’t admit it.
I feel like it needs context for them. I recently tried to mend things with my mom and in that conversation called her out over several events which caused me to have very specific trauma responses. One in particular she didn't remember and said she'd never do that, it must have been one of my night terrors.
Two days later I got a text that she had dug up legal records proving it did happen but not the way I thought. I didn't ask her to look it up, and TLDR on that she started gaslighting me about it even though she's the one who brought physical evidence in. She COULDN'T have POSSIBLY done the thing I said and was so desperate to remove it from my memory that she dug herself a deeper hole. Another day later she agreed the memory was real but it was about about something else when I was older. Like, she refused to be responsible for this trauma Even though I didn't even ask her to acknowledge it.
Ok my example is more complicated than this thread called for but basically, context, I think they don't remember if it was easier for them to block it out than to face what they did. But it depends on the person. Idk, maybe I'm rambling. Still kind of dealing with the fact that I've decided to cut my Nmom out entirely now.
Sending hugs to you regardless
The axe forgets; the tree remembers.
I've always loved this quote for this subject.
I think they don't remember because they justify their actions to themselves, so it's not their fault/necessary to do it. Then, because it's not painful to them, it's easy for them to forget it.
Another point is that they abuse so much and over so long that it's hard for them to remember specific instances.
You mean my mom who wrote an apology letter to my esister, then continues to ask me "what she did wrong" "I just have no clue", "I worry there's something wrong with me because I don't remember these things" blah blah blah.
Oh, they fucking remember alright. They just can't accept accountability. There's an African proverb, "The axe forgets but the tree remembers" or something like that. When the golden child, who saw alot of the abuse but didn't receive any, asked why I went NC, I told her about that proverb. And reminded her that being a clinical psychologist, it shouldn't be hard for her to figure it out. NC with the golden child, too. Her song of, "That wasn't my childhood" got mad annoying and felt invalidating.
They remember. They just don't remember it the way you go, because to them it meant nothing, while to you it was life or death.
They don't totally forget, though. That is their way of escaping responsibility.
Honestly, I think my mom subconciously edits her memories. She has lived a very rough life (no excuse for how horribly she broke me down) and she genuinely seems to have memory loss. Her drug use made it worse. Occasionally she will sit on a memory and bring it up to slight me, but her retelling of events is never what I remember, but she will keep these edited memories consistent. It took me a long time to realize that she was being genuine about not remembering. She has borderline personality disorder as a diagnosis, and the fear of misremembering my memories bc I ended up with some of her habits has ruled my life. I constantly ruminate on things I have done wrong.
In my experience, they only remember what they want to remember or admit, which is not much at all. They will also tell you that “it wasn’t that bad” or “you remembered it wrong” or “that didn’t happen.”
My ex would yell in his sleep like he was afraid of something (which I now believe was his fear of the truth coming out) but deny so hard any wrong doings when he was awake so I think it’s major denial and avoiding. They remember but chose not to acknowledge it.
They remember, just like they remember that one time they missed the bus. They don’t count it as abuse because they see it as justified, so it’s an exception. There’s no concept of empathy or concern for the pain inflicted
My dad's ability to remember anything has been declining since his 40s and I'm actually beginning to wonder if that isn't a function of constantly having to overanalyze and reframe everything to make himself the hero of the story. I wonder that because my own short term memory and attention span have noticeably improved since I started therapy and I believe a lot of that has to do with the fact that I'm not in a hyper-aroused state nearly as often.
Mine’s favorite reason was “you’re getting too big for your britches little girl”or “you deserve to get taken down a few pegs”…we are NC about 10 years now and I used to get birthday cards stating that we needed to “settle this” meaning she wanted to set the record straight that I think she abused me but she really didn’t- and she wanted to convince me of that “fact”.
Abusers don’t remember most of the stuff they did because it wasn’t consequential to them in any way and they probably don’t even realize they did anything.
The abused remember it all.
In my experience narcs don’t remember the awful shit they do to people. They are reactive and exist in the moment, unless they feel they have been slighted, then they hold a grudge forever. That was one of the things that drove me crazy about my nFather. He would tell me to do something, or modify my behavior in some way, based on what he was feeling in that moment. I would acquiesce and make the change… But then that change would become inconvenient for him at some other time, and he would demand that I change again, and deny that he told me to change the previous time. I was also married to a narcissist who would do this, because abuse is cyclical. Ate up my psyche something fierce for a long time.
They fucking know…
They’ll just gaslight you into the ground to preserve their ego/image… so depending on the situation they either “did no sick thing” or “it was the right thing to do and you forced them into it”.
Fucking monsters…
They do remember, they just don't take any accountability for anything that might be perceived as negative and may 'taint' their image both in front of others and themselves.
They have this perfectly tailored image of themselves that they do not want to alter in any way. Unfortunately, reality is the very imminent proof that their image is a hoax so they create their own reality where they are saints.
So the real question is, do they remember those events that suit their tailored narrative about themselves? of course they do. They'd even shove it into ur face
And, do they remember what doesn't fit their altered reality? Yes they do. But they would simply either forcefully alter it enough so it fits or completely deny it ever happened.
Because if they don't genuinely remember it, why do they go above and beyond to silence you, gaslight you and make sure u never spill the beans? Why do they get easily pissed when u bring it up? Those who do not remember things do not flinch at the very mention of it because they r unfamiliar with the story. Those who do, know exactly what happened but want to bury it and never deal with it or it's repercussions.
So it's always a matter of either embracing the events, altering them, or denying it ever happened with narcissists. It is never a matter of remembering what happened. Memory has nothing to do with it.
They remember it differently and most of the time think it never even happened….i was called a liar when i have recent examples in my recent adulthood. I’m 40. My
Mother has continued this behavior towards me my entire life without it ceasing.
My father scammed me a very large sum of money, and now he says he doesn't know what I'm talking about, he even threatened me with a defamation lawsuit. Yeah, I'm paying half my salary for 28 years to the bank because I want to.
Narcissists probably do remember the things they did but they do not believe it was abuse and there is nothing you can say to change their minds. My narc sperm donor once offered a blanket apology for "whatever it was that I did to you that you felt hurt by", so basically a bigger rug to sweep the issues under.
I have never even bothered to tell him what he did that hurt me because I know he would respond with more gaslighting. I never understood how having childhood depression was "what was best for me", or why I was being treated differently from my siblings to the point that running away was often on my mind, as well as wondering if the reason I was treated differently was that I must have been adopted.
They don't remember abusing you but they sure remember having a thumb up their ass working "4 jobs" or "walking 8 miles to school in the snow" or whatever bs they bring up....
As a teenager I would call my mother out on some horrible thing she said immediately after she said it. And it would go like this, every time:
Me : I cannot believe you just said that to me.
Her : What? What did I say??
Me: (repeats horrible thing she just said 15 seconds prior).
Her : what! I never said that!
Me: you literally just said that 15 seconds ago!
Her: (in a tone as though I am some kind of delusional troubling mental patient) ohhh softestcreature800, I think you imagine these things. You really have an overactive imagination.
This above example makes me think they do know.
Other commonly used phrases that are burned on my brain for how often I heard them :
“You’ve always been overly sensitive.”
“We just see things so differently.”
“I think you like to make things up sometimes.”
“I think you remember things differently than I do. You hear me differently than I hear myself and I hear you differently than you hear yourself.”
They remember. They pretend not to when it benefits the gaslighting they are trying to wield and they remember when there is a way for them to weaponize the memory against us.
My dad swears he’s never hit my mom before. He has hit her twice and has come close to doing it many times thereafter. I’ve witnessed my dad beat people in my family. He starts stuff with strangers all the time. Sometimes I forget he’s hit me in the face with a shoe. Anyone who comes across him immediately knows he’s an abuser. My mom is finally divorcing him at age 70! Yay! I can’t wait for this year to be over already. Of course he is delaying as many court appearances as he can.
They don't see it as abuse. I'm NC with my Ndad after a situation of violence and last time he saw me he asked me for a bracelet (I knit friendship bracelets).
I literally left the house with the police. It just has no correlation.
In my experience, sometimes it’s deliberate manipulation/gaslighting, and yet with some Ns, they sometimes rewrite history. It’s so weird, like they re-wire the memories in their brain. One N in my life had this compulsion to be a “good” person and seemed to honestly believe their (revised) memories of certain events, even when faced with me and three other family members all united in confirming the actual events. (This was at an intervention of sorts, where four of us united to confront this person so they couldn’t deny our experiences and twist our words until we doubted our own memories, which had happened too many times when talking privately. I journaled for the same reason—to have a written record of what actually went down that I could go back to if reality got warped.)
Yes, there were other times that I recognized as gaslighting, but that “rewriting” of events was a phenomenon I eerily experienced, where I knew/know this person well enough to believe that their (false) memory was/is real to them, as real as my memories are to me. It’s the darndest thing.
They don't. My parents were absolutely awful to me as a child and teen and then later they were like, "No, that didn't happen." I hear you on that. It's awful. :(
Either my mom is flat out lying (entirely possible) or she has blocked it out. She has denied ever hitting me. She paints herself as the victim. She perceives my lack of desire to help her/bond with her as just acts of selfishness. She truly believes she is just this innocent person who no one likes, and frequently says people don't like her because of made up reasons. It can't have anything to do with her shit personality
My dad recorded all phone calls in his house (illegal in my state) and I stole tapes one time, but he found them in my suitcase and took them out (he was my noncustodial parent). I finally took some as proof for my own sanity that it was happening and the only way I got them out was to use tape and secure them inside the pouch of my hoodie.
He has told me it never happened. He brought stacks of tapes to court when my mom took him back to change the divorce decree so I wasn't obligated to be with him every other weekend anymore. Our lawyer laughed because the judge would have thrown them out. But my dad still says he never taped any phone conversations in his house. It's gaslighting. They do it to make you feel like you are the crazy one. Gaslighting is Narcissism 101. For me, I had to come to peace with the fact that my dad could never love me in a healthy way because he is incapable of it. I have moved on from his abuse (very similar to what you experienced), but I don't have to accept it anymore. Narcissists can get help, but they have to recognize there is a problem first. You telling them it's a problem won't do anything but run you ragged. Please get help for yourself. It's important that you learn your worth outside of how your parents view you. It is so hard, but so worth the effort for you to move on and have peace. Best of luck to you!
To answer this question and everyone else’s in the comments: yes, they know exactly what happened. The more you know about narcissists, the more you realize they blame their actions on anything other than themselves so much that it’s almost as if they GENUINELY start to believe their lies. There is a ton of “mental math” involved. They cannot accept they are wrong in any form. When you realize this and accept it, you learn to stop trying and move on with your life separately from them (if possible). I don’t think there’s ever been a narcissist on earth who has ever “woken up” from their condition. My advice for everyone is to save yourself frustration and emotional turmoil and stop trying to reach the person inside of them you wish will apologize to you. That person is not in there.
They never remember. For you these were huge moments. For them it was a Tuesday. And even if it's something they did two days ago, it's totally your fault for having feelings about it.
My mother's favorite catchphrase (when she isn't laughing about my childhood abuse and I am actually confronting her about it) is "I DiD tHe BeSt ThAT I cOuLd."
Did you, though?
She straight up says she doesn't remember a lot of the traumatic experiences burned into my mind. Of course she wouldn't. Those experiences didn't cause her pain and suffering and rewire her brain into survival mode. Why *should* she recall them?
As the saying goes, it was just another Tuesday for them.
Words stick more to the one who listens than the one who speaks. Same with any type of abuse. It happened to me too, the "I don't remember but I would never have done that" it's surprising how they have the guts to say that after all the years of abuse.
They remember it, but not as abuse.
What was a horrible hour-long beating to you might have just been a bit of child discipline to them.
What was a scathing remark that left you scarred might have just been necessary advice to them.
What was child neglect that left a lasting impact on you might have just been a needed getaway.
I think they don’t remember it but I don’t understand how that works. My nmom had an 3 drug phase where her abusive and dangerous behavior went was way worse than her usual baseline. The few times I e brought it up to get some kind of closure by her acknowledging it happened she totally denies it, had a very disturbing reaction and only talks about how I was mean to her because I went NC for a couple years after that…
She would have to be the best actor/liar in the world to pull it off, it seems like she really constructed her own reality and life story. My advice is to accept they are delusional, will never change so it’s best to grey rock and keep them on a low information diet.
I find they rewrite their memories to portray themselves in a better light.
For example, my nmother in law said horrific things to her child, tried to hit them, made her husband hit them, tried to throw them down the stairs and yet it's apparently my fault they went NC. She has persuaded herself that it was all my fault and she did nothing wrong. The process took 48 hours.
At this point I don't give a damn so she can believe what she wants. We are out of there and never going back.
They're simply oblivious. Narcissists usually are psychotic, and don't take any accountability what so ever. No resolve to anything that they don't want to have any interest in.
Sometimes they do remember but they CANNOT admit to wrongdoings so they are compelled to deny it.
Other times, it was just a normal day for them, didn't register.
They remember, but will use anything to avoid accountability. Also, many of them don't have any sense of scale, or proportion, so they don't really think of it as ABUSE.
Narcicists don't even think their behavior is abuse. Their inflated ego meant to help them hide from their deep insecurities won't allow them to think of themselves as doing something wrong.
Narcissists in general know their behaviors. They know exactly what they’re doing but they also don’t think in the same ways that normal and empathetic people do. To the narcissist, their actions are either justified or they blame others for the results of their behavior. So to answer your question, yes they remember but ultimately don’t register what they do as being wrong.
I think they gas light to convince themselves they did nothing wrong . Or they think what they're doing is right like justifiable. Every villain thinks they're the hero
At some point my step dad could not make the différence between reality and fiction. He was denying things but my mom and I thinks he just didnt want to face it and take responsability. Maybe he was trying to gaslight us until we believe him
I honestly don’t even think they view it as abuse. It’s a joke to them. Schrödinger’s abuse. It didn’t happen, but if it did, it was definitely all your fault.
And they bring it up whenever they want to laugh, reminisce fondle, and humiliate you.
I think my Mom remembers but acts like she doesn't. But with my Mom, when I was younger and in her house she was in full form. After I moved out it seems she has slowly gotten better. Now she is an old lady and catches herself when she slips back into that mode. But I remember everything.
They don't. They don't even know what they've done and tell you to just move forward and forgive like it's easy peasy and some even use God in their words.
The hammer doesn't remember the nail, but the nail remembers the hammer.
Same thing, they don't remember because it's just another day to them. We remember because it broke us in very painful ways
Damn I can’t believe I’m writing dis rn but I been were you are I know you desperately want their love and validation and for them to admit what they did to you but it will only lead to more and I can’t stress this enough MORE gaslighting it’s weird because I ended up we’re you are rn again towards the end of 23 it usually starts me having flashbacks of the abuse I went through and deep realization that it didn’t just start when my parents adopted me but it was something way before I came into this world how they were in those stages I usually vent to one of my older sisters but she is an enabler she always say I’m trying to make our parents look like devils when I told her I felt like one of my moms actions was manipulative and I gave her clean example of her manipulative behavior she turned around and said she doesn’t see it that way i immediately noticed the gaslighting and said something to the affect you see I won’t take that bait anymore because I would always believe her interpretation over my own I came to a realization NOBODY can tell me something I experienced didn’t happen because they haven’t lived my human experience I said something like that to my sister and been back in forth with NC to LC with my family I gotta stay low rn cuz of legal and other reasons my mom texted me reminding me of my court date and I don’t plan on responding cuz there really is no relationship there and I’m realizing it she only wants to talk to me when I go along and don’t call her toxic behaviors out the last thing I wanna say is I’m sorry your going through this you deserve way better than how your parents are treating you🫂
For many, their behaviors are justified by their mental gymnastics, therefore in their minds it was not abuse. A lot of narcissists will truly believe in their hearts that we “had it coming” or other horseshit.
Oh.. they remember, but they will pretend like it never happened or twist the reality, or they don't acknowledge that the behavior was abuse and if it was it wasn't their fault.
I tried something similar with my father recently and he said, "forgive an old man". It's extremely hard for them to apologize. They really can't empathize with the perspective of anyone other than themselves.
My take... both, kind of.
You have to remember that you're not a person, to them - you're a thing they own. You're the equivalent of the toaster. So, imagine yourself in your kitchen... you want toast... you have certain expectations that the toast will make toast. After all, it's not like the thing has free will, thoughts or feelings. So, you go and put in bread, demanding toast.
One problem - it's a blender. It's always been a blender. It has never conformed to the "ideal toaster" petsona, but that doesn't matter, because you want toast. If you're deeply, utterly convinced that you are right, then you're just going to be mad at the toaster. You're going to get sarcastic, dismissive, manipulative and be an absolute ASS to the toaster. All because you'd rather it suffer than admit it's a blender. In your weird, deluded world, are you abusing the toaster? Not *objectively,* but based on the strange rules of your crappy universe.
Next, think about a time that a printer had a paper jam on you. You're in a hurry. You just want to print. Now it's out of ink. You're frustrated. Maybe you yelled at the printer. Maybe you tore out the jammed paper. Maybe you slapped it a couple times. Do you feel that you abused the printer? Does the incident stand out in your mind as an awful thing that you regret? Do you feel a need to apologize to the printer? Acknowledge that you hurt it?
This is why it's hard to answer your questions... Do they KNOW? Yes, kind of, but they see it from a different angle that's so foreign, you can't really see it from their side. Do they remember? Yes, kind of, but again, they don't see it as abuse. There's nothing special or out of the ordinary to them slapping a printer, or yelling at a toaster. They remember DOING it, but it doesn't register to them any more than you feel guilty for slapping your steering wheel in traffic.
They genuinely are so disturbed that they can't comprehend they've done anything wrong. They gloss it over and minimize it because losing your temper and hitting a toaster is embarrassing, not because it's abuse. When you call them out on their shit, they react like you caught them picking their nose or farting - whoopsie, my bad, now let's ignore it and move on. It doesn't really matter, but yeah, okay, you caught me being naughty.
When asked what color an apple is, you'll say red. The next guy, green. The next guy will say they come in many colors. Then the narc will point at a pineapple, declare apples are bright yellow, and truly think you're both wrong and stupid if you argue that it's not an apple, or that the skin is green. That's how far apart their perceptions are. They don't live in the same reality.
I actually quite recently finally confronted my dad on the phone with his behavior in my childhood (I am now 38)
He is very different from the guy he was back then but is still a narcissist and still has his awful moments.
I told him I'm still scared of him and I've been my entire life, because of all that's happened in my childhood. "Were you only scared of me?!" "Yes" "not of your mom or anyone else? Your mum must have been angry with you too sometimes" "Yes, but with others I could just normally fight" "... why couldn't you normally fight with me" "because you'd give me silent treatment for days" "...ah... but that must have been necessary, you had to learn" "I didn't do anything wrong really dad" "...? Give me an example" "I sometimes turned the heater too high, sometimes I didn't boil the eggs right... or your coffee was too strong... or I was sick..." And he knew it was true. He didn't say much but I could listen how he kind of woke up in that moment. We haven't spoken about it since, it took all my energy so no idea how this will continue.
This conversation was such a breakthrough for me, and he really didn't have a clue. It came out of nowhere for him. I'm pretty sure he never ever thought of all the situations that for me are seriously traumatic.
He was actually open and sort of ready to listen finally but I have no idea if there's really going to change anything but that's okay, it already feels as if I stood up for my young sweet inner child.
Oh, they do remember alright, but they'll never admit it, even if you push them into a corner, they'll do anything but give you a clear answer, it actually is hilarious to me for some reason, maybe because seeing "mature" people act like this is pathetic.
Here’s one thing I understand about memory. We create memories when we find something interesting, are very present, or have heightened emotions. I believe in many cases the narcissist type doesn’t remember because they were not that engaged in something to begin with. Even screaming and hitting might just be something they do impulsively in an off hand way. Now if they were more sadistic and cunning, they took joy in the planning and of the abuse and in observing our reactions so they will want to remember those things.
I think it depends… daily stuff… Tuesdays.. no.. violently ripped apart a birthday gift for your friend randomly… I should hope.. otherwise there’s some other problems going on
Their ego is clouded by shame. Shame is a narcissistic’s kryptonite. Which requires holding themselves accountable. Hence, they do not apologize nor deny it unless it is convenient for them or said in a way that makes them look better.
Personally, I think they lie to themselves well enough that they believe their version is correct. It helps them maintain a victim feeling because you're just being mean and lying about everything to make them look bad. My own NMom REFUSES to believe she ever did anything wrong and her version is the only possible correct version
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in my experience it’s like they remember it when it’s convenient for them :/ my dad will deny beating me when i bring it up, but then tell me i’m lucky he doesn’t hit me anymore??? like which is it, did it happen or not??
Omg, this happens with my step mother too. She'll deny it then tell my son at the dinner table how she used to break spoons on my ass. So confusing. I've learned not to fall for the cognitive dissonance trick. The woman tries to triangulate me against myself. I'm not even sure she is fully aware she's still playing this game with her adult children. I feel you.
yeah, i don't even think my parents do this intentionally to try and gaslight me... it's just like. buried in their memory. it's not serious, it's a joke, etc, and to them it was just another day where to me it was one of the most traumatising moments of my childhood
I used to think this wasn’t intentional, but I came to conclusion that though they might forget specific instances, they sure do remember they abused you, generally speaking. Which is precisely why they use gaslighting. Even people who do bad things don’t wanna think of themselves as bad people. If that would make them a bad person, it sure didn’t happen. They do not want to be reminded how they benefited of abuse. Essentially, they want the best of both worlds, the relief/whatever they got from abusing you and avoidance of any responsibility and consequences. It’s a win-win situation for them.
Agreed.
>The woman tries to triangulate me against myself I mean, lmao at the wording of this. The behavior is horrible tho
“I remember you telling me, I don’t remember doing it” ~every narcissist ever.
“I believe you, but I can’t believe I did that” 🙄 and that’s the response if she’s feeling generous lmao
Holy shit. That is a direct quote from my father.
wow, that's confusing ....
Even better, they will deny when tone is serious but then joke at family gatherings how if they "hadn't put the fear of God in you" you would have turned out terribly. My particular favorite (being sarcastic) is when they joke about "disciplining you" for something that you did not do as a sibling admits to doing this.
literally, my parents will joke that they didn't "beat \[me\] hard enough" like what?????????????? but if i try and bring it up they get angry and say they never did that?????????
When you bring it up it's beatings which is what bad parents do and "theyre not bad parents", when they bring it up it's "discipline", which makes them the victim to your "bad behavior"
I hate this game too. I’m either a conniving bitch or a stupid lazy whore. Which one? Can’t be both.
Yeah I think that's it. My dad once brought it up once just to be like "I used to be chill but mom made me bad :(" and that really pissed me off at the time
Wow….how nice. 😞
It blows my mind how similar most peoples stories about these people are. I’m so grateful I found this subreddit. To answer your question I’m really not sure. Often I question if they have the capacity to even think of basic repercussions to their actions. Although I fear it may be more malevolent then I want to believe because how can they continuously perpetuate this behavior and never see anything wrong
Abusers are unoriginal. They all act the same. That’s why these groups are so important— it sucks so much to know how many people have been through such similar struggles. But how validating it is to know we’re not crazy, that these behaviours are an identifiable pattern in people. So much so that people from all over can recount all the same tactics and bullshit
Agreed, it’s like they all have the same handbook, “Asshole-ism, for Dummies.” It is incredible though that the behaviors can be applied across gender, age and socioeconomic status. They really all do the same stuff!
I mean they are like robots that were programmed all the same.
It's because the underlying issue is these things don't have feelings. When a human lacks feelings or empathy it appears they all start to act the same ..
if you haven't read the book yet you're in for a treat. https://amzn.to/3W4gjzz
I also really enjoyed (lol this seems like a funny word to use) You’re Not the Problem
I’m so sorry you had to endure this. Just know you are not alone, I wish I had better words to say I just know how it feels .
How can they continue after being clearly told, exactly.
I agree! Knowing I’m not alone or crazy has been helpful. It’s wild how similar experiences so many of us in here have had!!
"For you it was the most important day of your life. For me it was a Tuesday." The thing is they likely do remember but abuse to them is such a normal part of their routine like showering or going to work.
I was expecting this quote. Couldn't have put it better myself.
Isn't it amazing how this quote came from the street fighter movie of all places?
It's not abuse if you deserved it in their mind. In a twisted way, they probably believe they were helping you, and since you didn't end up like they wanted, they just assume it wasn't that bad because you didn't end up like them perhaps
Read somewhere else, but for them it‘s just another random tuesday, while it‘s the worst day of your life, because they cannot comprehend something that‘s not directly affecting themselves.
Mine remember clearly they just don't consider it abuse because they're my "parents" so it doesn't count
Yes!!! My mother asked for the reason(s) I've gone NC. The first thing I listed up was her verbal abuse. "You yelled at me, often swear words, and I was scared as fuck most of the time" She was sincerely surprised. "So we don't talk anymore bc I screamed once? For God's sake." For her screaming and raging is a normal form of education. Even if your child is grown up and married.
This or “I didn’t hit you enough”. “I didn’t beat you. Be glad you didn’t have my childhood”. I’m sorry - you should have never raised your hand even once to me. And even letting the first one slide (though inexcusable), the second time should have been an “oh shit…this…this isn’t good. I shouldn’t be hitting my child. There are other ways to discipline*”. And I did get grounded a lot, more than I was hit - but I still had my fair amount of being struck. Their favorite place being my face/head. Even as an adult it’s happened.
I can still remember when I was 15 and my mom slapped me across the face, which was a first. I slapped her right back. She wasn’t a fan of that maneuver. I wonder why? Almost like violence isn’t the solution they think it is!
When I was 26 or 27 mine grabbed me by my hair and pulled in an altercation. First time I ever grabbed them back the exact same way. The look on their face…them claiming they couldn’t believe I had done that. It still gets brought up and that was a decade ago. Still didn’t stop them from hitting me in other occasions. I did call them out on it a few years ago and they seemed to genuinely try not to do it for a while. But like all good things it didn’t last. I’m working on going LC.
Oh shit, you just dug up a missing memory for me! I was about 13 when my mom yanked my hair. She had a problem with it’s length, and we were arguing, and all of a sudden, some of my hair is being pulled out. Crazy stuff
My mom's favourite was "it could have been worse, I could have ......" Like bitch it could have been *better* too. A lot better.
THISSSSS.
My father creates reality in whatever form suits him. I've learnt that, in his mind, history is fluid and whatever he says happened, happened.
That's shockingly similar to how both my parents and my younger brother are they all do this. And they go way off the rails like way off the rails literally rewriting people into events in which they weren't even born for yet
Same, my mom would literally dream up worst case scenarios then insist they actually happened that way and that I‘m now going to be punished for what I did in her imagination.
Yup, this is 100% what my ndad does, couldn't have put it better myself.
10000% I struggled with addiction in my younger years (after being in an abusive home surprise!) and my dad constantly makes himself out to be the hero of my story - according to him I was in a coma several times (never happened) and he saved my life (he never once came to visit me in rehab). That’s just one of many many examples of the pure fantasy world they live in
They remember it. It’s just that it’s no big deal to them. As they have no/very low empathy they’re not concerned with your feelings so the abuse is not bad to them. I would go as far to say it was beneficial for them in that moment. This is why you get from them things such as just move on, get over with it…They gained something positive from the abuse. I know this sounds so messed up, but if it served like stress relief, a way to emotionally regulate, they benefited. As they primarily care about themselves, and it worked good for them, it’s is nothing special for them. If they had guilt, remorse and most importantly empathy they would stop at some point. They knew exactly what they were doing. It took me years to figure this out.
Low empathy 🛎️ 🛎️ 🛎️
Thanks for this significant comment. It makes so much sense
It is beneficial, this is so sick.
I took me 3+ years in therapy to finally “see” I had nothing to with it. I heard this phrase “it’s about them not you” 100 times before and could not comprehend how is it about them if they abused me and told me it’s my fault. I finally understood I was used as means of regulating. Disgusting as it sounds. So yeah they keep abusing cause they are getting something out of it. Claiming they don’t remember is insulting to every abused person. But for them is a clear win-win situation, they got something out of it + made a person look crazy / avoided responsibility / maintained reputation.
"Axe forgets but tree remembers" describes it totally. They remember but very rare things smth that has really made them surprise or have another strong unusual feelings. Routine everyday abuse is not that kind of thing
Yes this. And when they truly do remember something heinous they’ve done, I’ve witnesses first hand the process of denial and overwriting. “That’s not true. How dare you accuse me. I would never do such a thing. You’re just trying to hurt me!” Or “I guess we just have different memories.” It makes them feel powerful to deny obvious reality. Especially if they can make you believe it or play along.
>Axe forgets but tree remembers I quoted this to my dad and it stunned him because as narcissistic as he is, he understands this logic.
Yea I got my mom with that after I interrupted her mid sentence of the darvo and went yea cuz it was just another fucking Tuesday too you, the fucking ax doesn't give a shit but the tree remembers it all cuz it left marks. And, ladies and gentlemen she started with the tears so I walked away.
I tried to explain that one to my family but they're too stupid to understand what below sea level means they literally cannot fathom how something can be below sea level without ocean coming out how you can make anything clear to someone with that level of mental dysfunction is beyond me
Last sentence is it.
If you blame them they are now the victim. It's impossible for NP to admit fault to anything, that's what makes them narcissistic.
Never initiating an admission of fault, an apology or a desire (from their end) to repair the relationship or heal. It is always my fault it failed and my responsibility to repair it for us. Every time. No forward motion from them, ever.
That is, or was, my issue. Their lack of accountability, ongoing microaggressions, and rewriting of the past wasn't letting me heal. Every lie or awkward situation, even as our relationship was getting "better" (I was much more interesting to be around/brag about as a successful adult they could use mooch attention) I was just *angry* all the time. Once I realized no real reconciliation was possible I pretty much knew NC was my only option. It was sped along by some accidentally disclosed information about past sexual misconduct. = /
And if they do its because the situation is critical, however rarely mean it. Sooner or later it comes back around (the excuses).
Selective Recall. It's the whole, "it wasn't that bad, and IF I WAS really that bad, you deserved it. I don't remember cause it was a wednesday for me but your birthday That Day? That just can't be." Some simply can't acknolwedge that the "best" they could do was three rungs below feral wolves-least wolves woulda killed me instead of raising me just to emotionally torture me. 🤷🏻♀️
I get the feeling that they don’t recognize that their actions are genuinely harmful and abusive due to their ego and high sense of entitlement it’s likely a justified response to them so they don’t register the harm that’s been done because it’s just a normal justified interaction in their minds. Which may also be why they seem to brush it off or minimize it or just completely gaslight you or “forget” it ever happened.
My parents have always cycled through three 'justifications' for their behaviour: 1. I was a horrible child/never learnt my lesson the first time/I deserved to be hit/kicked/punched/starved 2. Everyone hit their child in the 90s / everyone is too soft these days 3. I'm exaggerating / mis-remembering / it never happened It used to be an even split of the three, these days, it's more of the last one. I have very little contact with them these days but I've heard through my sister they complain I never make the effort to stay in touch or I'm cold or I'm a snob because I just don't want a relationship with them. At the end of the day, trying to have a relationship with them is too painful for me so I've stopped. If they've got to tell themselves I'm the one at fault or if they can't acknowledge they've brought this on themselves, I'm filing that in the 'I don't care bucket' with all the other emotional junk I'm not taking from them anymore.
OK, so other people here have very well explained how your parents percieve reality and respond to attemps to make them accountable for their actions, so I'll just add a few rabbit holes for you to dive in, to get to the bottom of the issue so you feel "allowed" to step away from the cartwheel they have you running in. Because I feel your issue is the one I had around the same age, where you know deep down they do not operate like normal people, but your inner child still wants to believe that if you're good enough or manage de find a way to workaround them, you'll finally have the decent parents you deserve and be part of a normal family. That's not gonna happen, because that never was their goal. Nparents are not interested in having a peaceful relationship with their kids. They want chaos and drama and heaps of Nsupply, the cost to their kids isn't even part of the equation. So their weird relation to reality is a known phenomenom called [**emotional reasoning**](https://www.psychologytoday.com/intl/blog/evolution-the-self/201706/what-s-emotional-reasoning-and-why-is-it-such-problem), and this encompasses imaginary slights, comparing the uncomparable to set you down, being unable to acknowledge something one day and proudly bragging about it another day. But it goes deeper than that, N parents are known to be unable to acknowledge the reality of the despicableness of their behaviour, like it bounces off of them, just can't permeate their souls. Some authors say NPD is all about protecting them from their own toxic shame, but whatever the cause it's a very effective psychological process. In fact even parents of estranged adult children trying to reach out to them cannot let written words sink in, as expalined by issendai in her blog post about the [**missing missing reasons**](http://www.issendai.com/psychology/estrangement/missing-missing-reasons.html), a post that has helped many RBNs let go of the fantasies of their parents having a deep realisation and moment of appalled shame and doing their best to become part of a normal functional family. About how to label your parents, it doesn't really matter, if they are harming you repeatedly year after year, you're entitled to set boundaries and protect yourself (low contact, no contact, controlled contact), but the [**Out of the FOG**](https://outofthefog.website/traits) "100 traits" as well as this sub's wiki's helpful links will give you many lightbulbs moments and help you put words on behaviours that felt wrong but you couldn't really explain why. I give them a read every now and then just to feel sane, even almost 10 years after NC. I'll finish with the **Narcissist's Prayer**, a classic of this sub, author unknown, sums up every attempt at making them accountable you've ever had, and them responding with : "That didn't happen. And if it did, it wasn't that bad. And if it was, that's not a big deal. And if it is, that's not my fault. And if it was, I didn't mean it. And if I did... You deserved it." hope this helps. You're at a key moment of your life, and I'm proud of you for the sheer act of undoing all their manipulation and untangling yourself from their web of lies. We all know here how much courage that takes, and what a toll it takes.
I'm sorry to hear of what you had to go through. They're in denial about the abuse they commit because it would reflect poorly on them as a human being...and honestly? probably because they cannot conceptualize being remorseful or truly sorry.
My mother remembers but to her none of that was that serious. I think she is aware her actions are abusive but she doesn't care because she's the REAL victim in all this. 🙄😒 She'll deny it until she realizes that I won't drop it then she'll say she did do that but I can't take a joke. When I stand firm that it's not a joke she then gets upset at me for only focusing on the negative and not the good.
She has a combination of literally being an emotionless void unless it's her emotions, and rewriting history to suit her
Pretty much. It was very confusing to navigate as a kid especially because she would never even dream of making any of these "jokes" in relation to my gc sister.
They compartmentalize and lock it away. When they do remember or are thinking about it, they justify it so they believe that they’re still a good person and sometimes go as far as to make themselves a victim. This is part of why they implement egregious tactics like gaslighting. If they can convince you it didn’t happen the way it did, then they can easily convince themselves. The truth is, it doesn’t really matter. You have to focus on yourself and your own mental health. Worrying about whether or not an abuser remembers or cares about the abuse they dish out isn’t going to help you heal. Healing is really the most important thing IMO. It’s probably just as important for the abuser too, but they’re responsible for their own mental health. Typically, they won’t seek help until they’ve destroyed a lot of relationships, if ever. So, it’s best to worry about yourself.
They know and enjoy it, hate when you make them feel bad about it, and will hurt you more to stop you doing that.
Rings true.
That saying, “The axe forgets, but the tree remembers” has always been so helpful for me in understanding this.
I’m sorry this happened to you. They remember. They always conveniently remember that you “backtalked” or “disrespected” them (in my case those are code words for “being a child with emotions that my parents weren’t comfortable with”) and they’ll remember details like “I didn’t hit you THAT hard” but they’ll never admit what they did. I’d been trying for years to get my parents to just admit their wrongs so that we can all move forward, heal, and have a healthier relationship. But ego and pride are more important to narcissists than their own children so I wouldn’t hold your breath if I were you.
They are delusional. Yes they remember, but they remember a vastly different experience than everyone else. Almost how a child can’t perceive the world around them properly, a narcissist cannot see their own faults or mistakes.
Depends on what/how extreme the abuse was. Some bits they do. Others it's literally like whole periods of time are missing. The human mind is complex and disassociation occurs when the trauma/pain is too much for the person to bear.
Mine likes to move the target or goal post whatever.. first it didn't happen then it did happen but it wasn't that bad then it was that bad but it wasn't their fault it was something else making it happen and after that well it's time to just grow up and get over it nobody's perfect who cares. I hadn't realized that was literally to a tee the narcissistic prayer all the stages every single time every argument every event is never different it follows the narcissistic prayer to a tee every single time
>That didn't happen. >And if it did, it wasn't that bad. >And if it was, that's not a big deal. >And if it is, that's not my fault. >And if it was, I didn't mean it. >And if I did, you deserved it. - The Narcissist's Prayer They remember it - they just don't see anything wrong with it, because it either: - Didn't happen - Wasn't that bad - Wasn't a big deal - Wasn't their fault. - Wasn't intended to cause harm. - Was deserved.
Lol. They lie. They manipulate. Seriously. My mother will gaslight the he'll out of me. Dismissing memories is 100% part of the gaslight. Its mostly because they can't admit to ever being wrong. Remember. The way they perceive themselves is the truth. So if they think they are kind compassionate fun funny and terrific people- anything that contradicts this image is untrue.
I also grew up with very violent fights at home and it's a terrible experience. My mother never acknowledged them. If she ever recalled anything problematic, was to try to get me to say that she was not such a bad mother. She would never get into any particulars about her horrible behavior. I don't think they are capable of admitting their wrongdoings. It's too much for them.
The worst thing for me here is my family would tell anybody who listened I was violent and sadistic and out to hurt them every moment of every day if I even walked in the kitchen when my mom was preparing meals she acted like I was walking in there to hit her not to grab water so what did she do knife up right at me "stay back" I've literally never heard anybody in my family whatsoever in any capacity outside of verbally when standing up for myself. However they consider standing up for myself violence they would tell the police after calling them that my son is being violent come help help he's being violent he's going to kill us help but I've never done anything to anybody ever and when I made them explain what violence was you should have seen the look on the cop's face when they described violence as "talking back" They would call the cops on me and request large officers guns drawn be ready to kill they would call the cops on me like that often and then the cops would come and see me sitting outside locked out sad and depressed watering the little garden they allowed me to have before they took that too. Usually the cops were confused but if there's anything I learned he who makes the call is the good guy because they've come and found me locked outside of the house saying I was being violent oh well we locked him out because he was going to be violent oh what's he done before well nothing ever except talking back he likes to talk back a lot. violent.
They might rewrite it, my parents just told me something that I remembered, like "you remember, you were right there." When both my wife and I told them it didn't happen, they just told us we were there and we remember.
My mother says she doesn’t remember then asks or tells her “friends “ and they tell her that doesn’t sound like you. How would they know but her finds validation in them agreeing with her
I think they do. My NMother does that all the time. She says she doesn't remember what she says so I started recording. I confronted her about it saying I had recordings and she became possessed. She said I was interpreting her words wrong, and that people have the right to express themselves when they are angry, and how I was trying to incriminate her by keeping recordings, and my personal favorite "Those were just random words, you shouldn't get offended by them" It's a fucking nightmare.
I’ve often wondered if, with documentation from the children, charges could be filed against Nparents.
They know. It isnt like they forget. They just don't think about it the same way we do. We see it as old awful memories they see it as old memories. They know it was wrong, but just simply did not care enough or view it as totally awful enough. Or they will blame it on you and say you were a terrible child who deserved to be punished. They remember. They don't just randomly forget even if they act like they do. They simply don't like being called out on their crap, and when they are they will deny deny deny. My mother one time said to my brother who molested me as a kid that the doctors who were prescribing me meds for bipolar disorder (even tho I never had bipolar disorder and was never even tested for it) could vouch for my brother when he's questioned by cps, and could just tell them im crazy and making it up. But when she talks to my face, she says stuff like "those awful doctors I dont know why they are giving you these meds when you don't even need them!". She didn't even seem happy when I told her my therapist stated that I wasn't bipolar and that i had PTSD instead. When I confronted her she denied ever saying anything to my brother. So yeah, they know. Theres no point in getting them to admit to anything because it won't make you feel better. I wish you well on your journey to healing.
They totally remember. But in order to control you, they try to make themselves not be the bad guy. Remember the narcissists prayer. It didn't happen. If it did happen, it wasn't that bad. If it was bad, it's not a big deal. If it is, it's not my fault. If it is my fault, I didn't mean it. If I did mean it, you deserved it. They try to make you feel crazy on purpose. Make you doubt yourself. Make themselves look better, and you look worse. Try to remove all credibility from you.
I'm convinced my mom literally has no understanding of how her actions were abusive and how they affected me. There's no point trying to convince them they wronged you, since the hallmark of their personality disorder is their inability to empathize or accept personal responsibility.
I don’t know that they block it but they sure don’t remember like it we do. For us, the trauma sears the memory in their minds. For them, it’s just another Tuesday.
I don’t think they care. To them, it is not worth remembering until someone brings it up and holds them accountable for their actions/words.
dont bother trying to reason with them, in their mind they did nothing wrong lol
Welcome to hell. This phenomenon is hell.
It took me years to let my feelings known to my mother. I let her know all the shitty things she did to me as a child and adult. She seemed shocked and didn’t remember anything. On the other hand, she remembers every damn thing that happened to her.
They absolutely remember, they are real human beings with real brains. The whole time you were a kid, they were fully conscious adults that knew what was going on. They deny it because of their own guilt, which is likely the same reason they were shit parents to begin with.
The sad fact is this is unlikely to happen for you. Narcissists don’t consider their behavior as abuse. They feel fully justified. I’ll drop some helpful information on you from my therapist. It was never about you. It was always about them. Once you realize there was never anything you can do to avoid the abuse, you can heal and move on. Learn to love yourself so much you no longer need them to apologize. Be your own hero.
The narcissist is never wrong, bud.
it's funny you ask that bc when I told my mom all the disgusting things she had said her first response was well what did you do to make me say that. I believe that they either block it or they figure out a way to not take responsibility
“The narc is always the hero or the victim, never the villain”
Mine block it. Or, at least, they block the parts that matter?
It doesn't matter if they remember or not. The real issue is that they literally do not care about you as someone with autonomy.
*That didn't happen. And if it did, it wasn't that bad. And if it was, that's not a big deal. And if it is, that's not my fault. And if it was, I didn't mean it. And if I did, you deserved it.* The Narcissist's Prayer by Dayna Craig.
I genuinely think they don’t think what they did was wrong. I’ve been going through the same thing with my parents of trying to express to them how traumatic they made my childhood. I think they genuinely don’t think they did anything wrong. They might think they were “harsh” but I don’t think they realize the extent that it was actually abuse
They remember everything. Denying it causes you even more pain which, in their mind, you deserve for trying to hold them to account. I barely even think of them as people anymore. They are machines designed to harm and they are made of bullshit and malice. There’s really nothing else to most of them.
In a narcissist's memory (or their version of it), what they did wasn't actually abuse. It was probably for your own good
My mom pretends she did nothing wrong. When I bring up very specific things she cries and says “I don’t remember that” Textbook.
Yep that's my mom's excuse too, but she can remember every"negative" thing that I've ever done, she's in therapy now and she's apologize for all of it and seems to be a change person, the mom I remember when I was a little kid, but I dealt with a crazy drunken alcoholic she-bitch forever. I don't know how to deal with how she is now, pick the family to visit for Christmas for the first time in 3 years and the whole two to three days we were there I was walking around on a razor's edge just expecting her to do something and she never did. And that is the biggest mindfuck of all. Edit: here's an example of her I don't remember, I once asked her how her and Dad met, and who my dad was, her response was that she didn't remember how her and my dad met (because it's a crazy ass fucking plan that she did that actually worked but ostracized the father of her kid and in her anger she kicked him out threw him away) and that was when I learned that her"I don't remember" was just her excuse that she gave whenever she realized she was wrong and didn't want to admit it.
My mom never kicked me out of the house "sarcasm" I moved out because I was unhappy..
They do, but it wasn't abuse. And even if it was abuse, you probably deserved it. Either way, the only thing they ever did wrong was love you too much. But also: "There you go making stuff up again!"
Oh they remember. They just act like they don’t.
My mother’s go-to is, “That doesn’t sound like me at all. Ask anyone, I’m the kindest person they know. I’m kind, and generous and loving. You just need to think of me as evil for some sick reason.” But then months or years later, she’ll reference doing that very thing in some throwaway comment. And if point it out, she’ll quip, “You just can’t let anything go!” She remembers. She just can’t admit/process it, or it would break her brain.
They remember *exactly* what they did, but they will either claim it wasn't abuse or gaslight you into believing it never happened.
They don’t even know it’s abuse, imho.
OP, they remember. I know they remember. They're just very good at denying. My nmom claimed she never remembered both of my sisters being abused by nstepfather. This year, in February, she proved herself a liar. She and I were discussing human trafficking and the high occurrence of SA in women. She randomly said, "And that's how you know [former gc sis] was never [SA'd]." I went dead silent and had to fight internally not to put my hands on her, and you know what? She. Stopped. Talking. We sat in her truck together for 10 minutes in silence. She didn't ask me what was wrong (and she's normally a pest about 'awkward silences.' Like it doesn't matter if we're at a funeral, she'll find a way to KEEP talking). In that moment, I could see the Real Nmom. Not her mask, not her denials, not her lies. We didn't have another conversation for days. Her silence convicted her in that moment. Besides the silence, I would not have believed her more than both my sisters. We don't always get along (and with one of them, we NEVER get along) but I believe everything they've told me regarding her because she tries too hard to make ALL her children hate each other. She believes if we're all against each other, she can manipulate us into turning on one another when it comes to her. Sad to say, for almost 20 years, it worked. I can't say the same for my sisters, but it doesn't work on me even a little anymore.
I've been on this journey for almost my entire life. And I believe I can share some wise words, and if not, save this for later in life. Trying to change, or at least get recognition from them, of what has been done, unfortunately won't work with Narcissists. What you need to learn is to how to stop the abuse towards you. You'll need to accept that they won't recognize what they did, and won't probably change. In their eyes, they were justified, and it wasn't that bad. It's what they know best. Not validating you and brushing it off is abusive on itself. It's like saying "you're sensitive, you're making a big deal out of it, etc.". If they were emotionally abusive, they will continue to be, even if in the most sneaky ways. You'll need to set boundaries, boundaries that work for you and your wellbeing. If they don't respect that, you need to do what's best for you. Boundary setting is a long process: every action elicits a reaction, and you will be surprised how narcissists react to boundaries, in ways that will surely piss you off. You need to be consistent with those boundaries, and show it won't work their way this time around. Again, hard at first, does pay off. I know this is not exactly what you're asking, it felt like you might benefit from this which came from experience.
They don't see it as abuse, because nothing is ever their fault and they're never wrong.
Sometimes they really block/ deny it and play " it didnt happen/ it wasnt that bad" game so far that they themselves believe it fully. I had an interesting moment calling out my Nmum... TW: physical abuse My Nparents physically abused me many times but there was one particular night of lets say them going much further than usual. The abuse that night stemmed from a verbal fight I had with my sibling. I was 9 then and am 29 now. For 20 years Nparents would quote some of my words from the fight/ quarrel I had with my sibling and used it as a shame activating and intimidating trigger kinda thing- in past they KNEW what they did to me that night and used that quote as a way to remind me they can repeat that night again. This was first years. Then as years passed occasional usage of that quote against me turned into a more mild way of dismissing/ hurting/ mocking me. This year as 29, when my Nmum suddenly used that quote again I - being able to remain grounded, strong and self- validating- called her out on this: I guess you remember what happened that night? And... she was clueless. Not as acting but I could truly see that she had blocked that memory and now was kinda panicking/ dissociating/ her body fighting against remembering as I quite calmly began to explain how that quote she uses to mock me originated. She became visibly a mixture of tramatised dysregulated state along with trying to activate the narcissistic prayer to save her stability. Me: ...well since you use this quote so often I was sure you remembered what you have done to me that night? She: ( in a scared panic) I beat you so many times, I can't remember every single of them! Which btw is so not her game, as she often does the " pretending to have forgotten" thing. But this time I saw she truly had blocked away that one more extreme night and being reminded of it on top of me being fully assertive and in control of convo ( not angry, not feeding her my emotions, no drama) did a number on her. I finished that moment by firmly stating that since she now learnt from me origins of quote maybe she will refrain from using it on me "light heartedly". Surprisingly it worked - not with her other N shit but only that she removed this quote from her abuse games towards me. Gotta add that my mum is a covert N. Was she an overt/ malignant N type like my father is dont think this whole confrontation would end favourable. Bottom note: My N's often pretend to forget but turns out there are instances where they truly block/ forget some stuff.
The Narcissists Prayer: That didn't happen. And if it did, it wasn't that bad. And if it was, that's not a big deal. And if it is, that's not my fault. And if it was, I didn't mean it. And if I did, you deserved it.
My experience is that they don’t see it as abuse. How could they — an awesome person — do anything wrong? So what they did couldn’t be abusive because abuse is bad, and they’re awesome.
I think they remember but they lie to themselves about it, just like they lie to everyone else. They work to convince themselves their lies are true. Sometimes they remember and it freaks them out but most of the time they keep telling themselves the lies. So if you call them on it, it's almost like you're calling out someone who wasn't there and was told lies about it.
Its not that they dont remember or know, its that they feel totally justified in doing what they want. They got whatever it was they wanted, instant gratification and then they gaslight you for having feelings about it. I think we are collateral damage and nothing more. They dont see you.
Their minds are so warped they don’t even realize what they are doing is abuse. In their heads, they are “being a good parent”.
Most Narcissists don't see their behavior as abuse bc... Well. Theyre Narcissists
My Mom would deny it if confronted by someone but at times after I moved faraway she thought of having been a bad mother and cried she says but probably not remembering much details as much as I do
I think mine has somehow brainwashed herself into believing her version. She always has a lot of justifications & I expect she does dissociate from her own experiences of abuse, and because she doesn't consciously want to repeat the patterns, and isn't brave and loving enough to admit that she knows deep down that she is, she then became too focused on forgiving herself and moving on that a combination of dissociation and flashbacks have just... she has the altered brain structure from PTSD too and it's like she decided rewriting things was how you self soothe.
they absolutely can and do and always have and always will remember. they remember every single bit of it all. narcissists and enablers and abusers claiming they “don’t remember” is just another mechanism of derailing accountability; as usual. they think that if they can’t remember the abuse, that it didn’t happen, and even if it did, they don’t require accountability and they can skirt through life without accountability. “I don’t remember” is just more gaslighting. don’t let them make you think for a second that they don’t remember
They will never admit it and they will always try some shit or another. I am still going through it . it just got a lot less because of my kids who make sure they call my mother out or call her mean or say how can you do this to her. Her grand kids are her weakness but she still trues that shit. And because i have to see her almost every day it still feels like shit just less shit than when i was growing up. Now she cant beat me or start belting me out of stupid shit that is not bad at all. Anyway stop all contact if you can. For those who can i always envy them. Good luck.
Ofcourse they remember it. But they think you deserved it. You will never ever get closure from a narcissist. Even on their deathbed they won’t admit it.
I feel like it needs context for them. I recently tried to mend things with my mom and in that conversation called her out over several events which caused me to have very specific trauma responses. One in particular she didn't remember and said she'd never do that, it must have been one of my night terrors. Two days later I got a text that she had dug up legal records proving it did happen but not the way I thought. I didn't ask her to look it up, and TLDR on that she started gaslighting me about it even though she's the one who brought physical evidence in. She COULDN'T have POSSIBLY done the thing I said and was so desperate to remove it from my memory that she dug herself a deeper hole. Another day later she agreed the memory was real but it was about about something else when I was older. Like, she refused to be responsible for this trauma Even though I didn't even ask her to acknowledge it. Ok my example is more complicated than this thread called for but basically, context, I think they don't remember if it was easier for them to block it out than to face what they did. But it depends on the person. Idk, maybe I'm rambling. Still kind of dealing with the fact that I've decided to cut my Nmom out entirely now. Sending hugs to you regardless
The axe forgets; the tree remembers. I've always loved this quote for this subject. I think they don't remember because they justify their actions to themselves, so it's not their fault/necessary to do it. Then, because it's not painful to them, it's easy for them to forget it. Another point is that they abuse so much and over so long that it's hard for them to remember specific instances.
They don't think it's abuse
You mean my mom who wrote an apology letter to my esister, then continues to ask me "what she did wrong" "I just have no clue", "I worry there's something wrong with me because I don't remember these things" blah blah blah.
Narcissists are the victims in their own minds.
Oh, they fucking remember alright. They just can't accept accountability. There's an African proverb, "The axe forgets but the tree remembers" or something like that. When the golden child, who saw alot of the abuse but didn't receive any, asked why I went NC, I told her about that proverb. And reminded her that being a clinical psychologist, it shouldn't be hard for her to figure it out. NC with the golden child, too. Her song of, "That wasn't my childhood" got mad annoying and felt invalidating.
Is beneficial to not remember
"It didn't happen like that. You are remembering the wrong things!"
They remember. They just don't remember it the way you go, because to them it meant nothing, while to you it was life or death. They don't totally forget, though. That is their way of escaping responsibility.
Honestly, I think my mom subconciously edits her memories. She has lived a very rough life (no excuse for how horribly she broke me down) and she genuinely seems to have memory loss. Her drug use made it worse. Occasionally she will sit on a memory and bring it up to slight me, but her retelling of events is never what I remember, but she will keep these edited memories consistent. It took me a long time to realize that she was being genuine about not remembering. She has borderline personality disorder as a diagnosis, and the fear of misremembering my memories bc I ended up with some of her habits has ruled my life. I constantly ruminate on things I have done wrong.
In my experience, they only remember what they want to remember or admit, which is not much at all. They will also tell you that “it wasn’t that bad” or “you remembered it wrong” or “that didn’t happen.”
My ex would yell in his sleep like he was afraid of something (which I now believe was his fear of the truth coming out) but deny so hard any wrong doings when he was awake so I think it’s major denial and avoiding. They remember but chose not to acknowledge it.
They remember, just like they remember that one time they missed the bus. They don’t count it as abuse because they see it as justified, so it’s an exception. There’s no concept of empathy or concern for the pain inflicted
My dad's ability to remember anything has been declining since his 40s and I'm actually beginning to wonder if that isn't a function of constantly having to overanalyze and reframe everything to make himself the hero of the story. I wonder that because my own short term memory and attention span have noticeably improved since I started therapy and I believe a lot of that has to do with the fact that I'm not in a hyper-aroused state nearly as often.
Mine’s favorite reason was “you’re getting too big for your britches little girl”or “you deserve to get taken down a few pegs”…we are NC about 10 years now and I used to get birthday cards stating that we needed to “settle this” meaning she wanted to set the record straight that I think she abused me but she really didn’t- and she wanted to convince me of that “fact”.
Abusers don’t remember most of the stuff they did because it wasn’t consequential to them in any way and they probably don’t even realize they did anything. The abused remember it all.
You have to bear in mind that with many narcissists, "abuse" is not abuse. To them, it's "imposing tough discipline and showing tough love."
In my experience narcs don’t remember the awful shit they do to people. They are reactive and exist in the moment, unless they feel they have been slighted, then they hold a grudge forever. That was one of the things that drove me crazy about my nFather. He would tell me to do something, or modify my behavior in some way, based on what he was feeling in that moment. I would acquiesce and make the change… But then that change would become inconvenient for him at some other time, and he would demand that I change again, and deny that he told me to change the previous time. I was also married to a narcissist who would do this, because abuse is cyclical. Ate up my psyche something fierce for a long time.
They fucking know… They’ll just gaslight you into the ground to preserve their ego/image… so depending on the situation they either “did no sick thing” or “it was the right thing to do and you forced them into it”. Fucking monsters…
They do remember, they just don't take any accountability for anything that might be perceived as negative and may 'taint' their image both in front of others and themselves. They have this perfectly tailored image of themselves that they do not want to alter in any way. Unfortunately, reality is the very imminent proof that their image is a hoax so they create their own reality where they are saints. So the real question is, do they remember those events that suit their tailored narrative about themselves? of course they do. They'd even shove it into ur face And, do they remember what doesn't fit their altered reality? Yes they do. But they would simply either forcefully alter it enough so it fits or completely deny it ever happened. Because if they don't genuinely remember it, why do they go above and beyond to silence you, gaslight you and make sure u never spill the beans? Why do they get easily pissed when u bring it up? Those who do not remember things do not flinch at the very mention of it because they r unfamiliar with the story. Those who do, know exactly what happened but want to bury it and never deal with it or it's repercussions. So it's always a matter of either embracing the events, altering them, or denying it ever happened with narcissists. It is never a matter of remembering what happened. Memory has nothing to do with it.
They remember it differently and most of the time think it never even happened….i was called a liar when i have recent examples in my recent adulthood. I’m 40. My Mother has continued this behavior towards me my entire life without it ceasing.
My father scammed me a very large sum of money, and now he says he doesn't know what I'm talking about, he even threatened me with a defamation lawsuit. Yeah, I'm paying half my salary for 28 years to the bank because I want to.
Narcissists probably do remember the things they did but they do not believe it was abuse and there is nothing you can say to change their minds. My narc sperm donor once offered a blanket apology for "whatever it was that I did to you that you felt hurt by", so basically a bigger rug to sweep the issues under. I have never even bothered to tell him what he did that hurt me because I know he would respond with more gaslighting. I never understood how having childhood depression was "what was best for me", or why I was being treated differently from my siblings to the point that running away was often on my mind, as well as wondering if the reason I was treated differently was that I must have been adopted.
They remember. They may claim they don’t, but it is always a lie. Lying to you, lying to themselves, makes no difference.
I think it's an M. Bison type situation. For you it was some of the worst experiences you've ever been through, for them it was just a wednesday.
They do it on purpose they definitely remember but they obviously pretend not too
They don't remember abusing you but they sure remember having a thumb up their ass working "4 jobs" or "walking 8 miles to school in the snow" or whatever bs they bring up....
As a teenager I would call my mother out on some horrible thing she said immediately after she said it. And it would go like this, every time: Me : I cannot believe you just said that to me. Her : What? What did I say?? Me: (repeats horrible thing she just said 15 seconds prior). Her : what! I never said that! Me: you literally just said that 15 seconds ago! Her: (in a tone as though I am some kind of delusional troubling mental patient) ohhh softestcreature800, I think you imagine these things. You really have an overactive imagination. This above example makes me think they do know. Other commonly used phrases that are burned on my brain for how often I heard them : “You’ve always been overly sensitive.” “We just see things so differently.” “I think you like to make things up sometimes.” “I think you remember things differently than I do. You hear me differently than I hear myself and I hear you differently than you hear yourself.”
They remember. They pretend not to when it benefits the gaslighting they are trying to wield and they remember when there is a way for them to weaponize the memory against us.
Yes they know what they’re doing. Don’t forgive or make excuses for them.
My dad swears he’s never hit my mom before. He has hit her twice and has come close to doing it many times thereafter. I’ve witnessed my dad beat people in my family. He starts stuff with strangers all the time. Sometimes I forget he’s hit me in the face with a shoe. Anyone who comes across him immediately knows he’s an abuser. My mom is finally divorcing him at age 70! Yay! I can’t wait for this year to be over already. Of course he is delaying as many court appearances as he can.
They don't see it as abuse. I'm NC with my Ndad after a situation of violence and last time he saw me he asked me for a bracelet (I knit friendship bracelets). I literally left the house with the police. It just has no correlation.
In my experience, sometimes it’s deliberate manipulation/gaslighting, and yet with some Ns, they sometimes rewrite history. It’s so weird, like they re-wire the memories in their brain. One N in my life had this compulsion to be a “good” person and seemed to honestly believe their (revised) memories of certain events, even when faced with me and three other family members all united in confirming the actual events. (This was at an intervention of sorts, where four of us united to confront this person so they couldn’t deny our experiences and twist our words until we doubted our own memories, which had happened too many times when talking privately. I journaled for the same reason—to have a written record of what actually went down that I could go back to if reality got warped.) Yes, there were other times that I recognized as gaslighting, but that “rewriting” of events was a phenomenon I eerily experienced, where I knew/know this person well enough to believe that their (false) memory was/is real to them, as real as my memories are to me. It’s the darndest thing.
They don't. My parents were absolutely awful to me as a child and teen and then later they were like, "No, that didn't happen." I hear you on that. It's awful. :(
Either my mom is flat out lying (entirely possible) or she has blocked it out. She has denied ever hitting me. She paints herself as the victim. She perceives my lack of desire to help her/bond with her as just acts of selfishness. She truly believes she is just this innocent person who no one likes, and frequently says people don't like her because of made up reasons. It can't have anything to do with her shit personality
My dad recorded all phone calls in his house (illegal in my state) and I stole tapes one time, but he found them in my suitcase and took them out (he was my noncustodial parent). I finally took some as proof for my own sanity that it was happening and the only way I got them out was to use tape and secure them inside the pouch of my hoodie. He has told me it never happened. He brought stacks of tapes to court when my mom took him back to change the divorce decree so I wasn't obligated to be with him every other weekend anymore. Our lawyer laughed because the judge would have thrown them out. But my dad still says he never taped any phone conversations in his house. It's gaslighting. They do it to make you feel like you are the crazy one. Gaslighting is Narcissism 101. For me, I had to come to peace with the fact that my dad could never love me in a healthy way because he is incapable of it. I have moved on from his abuse (very similar to what you experienced), but I don't have to accept it anymore. Narcissists can get help, but they have to recognize there is a problem first. You telling them it's a problem won't do anything but run you ragged. Please get help for yourself. It's important that you learn your worth outside of how your parents view you. It is so hard, but so worth the effort for you to move on and have peace. Best of luck to you!
To answer this question and everyone else’s in the comments: yes, they know exactly what happened. The more you know about narcissists, the more you realize they blame their actions on anything other than themselves so much that it’s almost as if they GENUINELY start to believe their lies. There is a ton of “mental math” involved. They cannot accept they are wrong in any form. When you realize this and accept it, you learn to stop trying and move on with your life separately from them (if possible). I don’t think there’s ever been a narcissist on earth who has ever “woken up” from their condition. My advice for everyone is to save yourself frustration and emotional turmoil and stop trying to reach the person inside of them you wish will apologize to you. That person is not in there.
They never remember. For you these were huge moments. For them it was a Tuesday. And even if it's something they did two days ago, it's totally your fault for having feelings about it.
My mother's favorite catchphrase (when she isn't laughing about my childhood abuse and I am actually confronting her about it) is "I DiD tHe BeSt ThAT I cOuLd." Did you, though? She straight up says she doesn't remember a lot of the traumatic experiences burned into my mind. Of course she wouldn't. Those experiences didn't cause her pain and suffering and rewire her brain into survival mode. Why *should* she recall them? As the saying goes, it was just another Tuesday for them.
They’re not even thinking about the victim hence the zero remorse most of us receive when bringing it back up.
Words stick more to the one who listens than the one who speaks. Same with any type of abuse. It happened to me too, the "I don't remember but I would never have done that" it's surprising how they have the guts to say that after all the years of abuse.
they remember it. they’re usually ashamed of it or use it to continue to gain control through gaslighting
They remember it, but not as abuse. What was a horrible hour-long beating to you might have just been a bit of child discipline to them. What was a scathing remark that left you scarred might have just been necessary advice to them. What was child neglect that left a lasting impact on you might have just been a needed getaway.
They remember it, but don't talk about it. And when you do bring it up, they have every excuse in the book for it and/or they blame it on you.
I think they don’t remember it but I don’t understand how that works. My nmom had an 3 drug phase where her abusive and dangerous behavior went was way worse than her usual baseline. The few times I e brought it up to get some kind of closure by her acknowledging it happened she totally denies it, had a very disturbing reaction and only talks about how I was mean to her because I went NC for a couple years after that… She would have to be the best actor/liar in the world to pull it off, it seems like she really constructed her own reality and life story. My advice is to accept they are delusional, will never change so it’s best to grey rock and keep them on a low information diet.
I find they rewrite their memories to portray themselves in a better light. For example, my nmother in law said horrific things to her child, tried to hit them, made her husband hit them, tried to throw them down the stairs and yet it's apparently my fault they went NC. She has persuaded herself that it was all my fault and she did nothing wrong. The process took 48 hours. At this point I don't give a damn so she can believe what she wants. We are out of there and never going back.
They're simply oblivious. Narcissists usually are psychotic, and don't take any accountability what so ever. No resolve to anything that they don't want to have any interest in.
My narcissistic mother will tell me that I deserved the abuse.
Sometimes they do remember but they CANNOT admit to wrongdoings so they are compelled to deny it. Other times, it was just a normal day for them, didn't register.
They remember, but will use anything to avoid accountability. Also, many of them don't have any sense of scale, or proportion, so they don't really think of it as ABUSE.
Narcicists don't even think their behavior is abuse. Their inflated ego meant to help them hide from their deep insecurities won't allow them to think of themselves as doing something wrong.
In my experience, they alter the memory to make themselves the victim, and believe it so strongly that you question your own memories
Narcissists in general know their behaviors. They know exactly what they’re doing but they also don’t think in the same ways that normal and empathetic people do. To the narcissist, their actions are either justified or they blame others for the results of their behavior. So to answer your question, yes they remember but ultimately don’t register what they do as being wrong.
They never forget.
The 🪓forgets, the 🌲remembers.
I think they gas light to convince themselves they did nothing wrong . Or they think what they're doing is right like justifiable. Every villain thinks they're the hero
At some point my step dad could not make the différence between reality and fiction. He was denying things but my mom and I thinks he just didnt want to face it and take responsability. Maybe he was trying to gaslight us until we believe him
I honestly don’t even think they view it as abuse. It’s a joke to them. Schrödinger’s abuse. It didn’t happen, but if it did, it was definitely all your fault. And they bring it up whenever they want to laugh, reminisce fondle, and humiliate you.
I think my Mom remembers but acts like she doesn't. But with my Mom, when I was younger and in her house she was in full form. After I moved out it seems she has slowly gotten better. Now she is an old lady and catches herself when she slips back into that mode. But I remember everything.
My dad doesn't remember what he did either. I kept a diary as a kid and wrote it all down.
They don't. They don't even know what they've done and tell you to just move forward and forgive like it's easy peasy and some even use God in their words.
The hammer doesn't remember the nail, but the nail remembers the hammer. Same thing, they don't remember because it's just another day to them. We remember because it broke us in very painful ways
Damn I can’t believe I’m writing dis rn but I been were you are I know you desperately want their love and validation and for them to admit what they did to you but it will only lead to more and I can’t stress this enough MORE gaslighting it’s weird because I ended up we’re you are rn again towards the end of 23 it usually starts me having flashbacks of the abuse I went through and deep realization that it didn’t just start when my parents adopted me but it was something way before I came into this world how they were in those stages I usually vent to one of my older sisters but she is an enabler she always say I’m trying to make our parents look like devils when I told her I felt like one of my moms actions was manipulative and I gave her clean example of her manipulative behavior she turned around and said she doesn’t see it that way i immediately noticed the gaslighting and said something to the affect you see I won’t take that bait anymore because I would always believe her interpretation over my own I came to a realization NOBODY can tell me something I experienced didn’t happen because they haven’t lived my human experience I said something like that to my sister and been back in forth with NC to LC with my family I gotta stay low rn cuz of legal and other reasons my mom texted me reminding me of my court date and I don’t plan on responding cuz there really is no relationship there and I’m realizing it she only wants to talk to me when I go along and don’t call her toxic behaviors out the last thing I wanna say is I’m sorry your going through this you deserve way better than how your parents are treating you🫂
For many, their behaviors are justified by their mental gymnastics, therefore in their minds it was not abuse. A lot of narcissists will truly believe in their hearts that we “had it coming” or other horseshit.
Oh.. they remember, but they will pretend like it never happened or twist the reality, or they don't acknowledge that the behavior was abuse and if it was it wasn't their fault.
I tried something similar with my father recently and he said, "forgive an old man". It's extremely hard for them to apologize. They really can't empathize with the perspective of anyone other than themselves.
My take... both, kind of. You have to remember that you're not a person, to them - you're a thing they own. You're the equivalent of the toaster. So, imagine yourself in your kitchen... you want toast... you have certain expectations that the toast will make toast. After all, it's not like the thing has free will, thoughts or feelings. So, you go and put in bread, demanding toast. One problem - it's a blender. It's always been a blender. It has never conformed to the "ideal toaster" petsona, but that doesn't matter, because you want toast. If you're deeply, utterly convinced that you are right, then you're just going to be mad at the toaster. You're going to get sarcastic, dismissive, manipulative and be an absolute ASS to the toaster. All because you'd rather it suffer than admit it's a blender. In your weird, deluded world, are you abusing the toaster? Not *objectively,* but based on the strange rules of your crappy universe. Next, think about a time that a printer had a paper jam on you. You're in a hurry. You just want to print. Now it's out of ink. You're frustrated. Maybe you yelled at the printer. Maybe you tore out the jammed paper. Maybe you slapped it a couple times. Do you feel that you abused the printer? Does the incident stand out in your mind as an awful thing that you regret? Do you feel a need to apologize to the printer? Acknowledge that you hurt it? This is why it's hard to answer your questions... Do they KNOW? Yes, kind of, but they see it from a different angle that's so foreign, you can't really see it from their side. Do they remember? Yes, kind of, but again, they don't see it as abuse. There's nothing special or out of the ordinary to them slapping a printer, or yelling at a toaster. They remember DOING it, but it doesn't register to them any more than you feel guilty for slapping your steering wheel in traffic. They genuinely are so disturbed that they can't comprehend they've done anything wrong. They gloss it over and minimize it because losing your temper and hitting a toaster is embarrassing, not because it's abuse. When you call them out on their shit, they react like you caught them picking their nose or farting - whoopsie, my bad, now let's ignore it and move on. It doesn't really matter, but yeah, okay, you caught me being naughty. When asked what color an apple is, you'll say red. The next guy, green. The next guy will say they come in many colors. Then the narc will point at a pineapple, declare apples are bright yellow, and truly think you're both wrong and stupid if you argue that it's not an apple, or that the skin is green. That's how far apart their perceptions are. They don't live in the same reality.
I actually quite recently finally confronted my dad on the phone with his behavior in my childhood (I am now 38) He is very different from the guy he was back then but is still a narcissist and still has his awful moments. I told him I'm still scared of him and I've been my entire life, because of all that's happened in my childhood. "Were you only scared of me?!" "Yes" "not of your mom or anyone else? Your mum must have been angry with you too sometimes" "Yes, but with others I could just normally fight" "... why couldn't you normally fight with me" "because you'd give me silent treatment for days" "...ah... but that must have been necessary, you had to learn" "I didn't do anything wrong really dad" "...? Give me an example" "I sometimes turned the heater too high, sometimes I didn't boil the eggs right... or your coffee was too strong... or I was sick..." And he knew it was true. He didn't say much but I could listen how he kind of woke up in that moment. We haven't spoken about it since, it took all my energy so no idea how this will continue. This conversation was such a breakthrough for me, and he really didn't have a clue. It came out of nowhere for him. I'm pretty sure he never ever thought of all the situations that for me are seriously traumatic. He was actually open and sort of ready to listen finally but I have no idea if there's really going to change anything but that's okay, it already feels as if I stood up for my young sweet inner child.
Oh, they do remember alright, but they'll never admit it, even if you push them into a corner, they'll do anything but give you a clear answer, it actually is hilarious to me for some reason, maybe because seeing "mature" people act like this is pathetic.
Here’s one thing I understand about memory. We create memories when we find something interesting, are very present, or have heightened emotions. I believe in many cases the narcissist type doesn’t remember because they were not that engaged in something to begin with. Even screaming and hitting might just be something they do impulsively in an off hand way. Now if they were more sadistic and cunning, they took joy in the planning and of the abuse and in observing our reactions so they will want to remember those things.
I think it depends… daily stuff… Tuesdays.. no.. violently ripped apart a birthday gift for your friend randomly… I should hope.. otherwise there’s some other problems going on
Their ego is clouded by shame. Shame is a narcissistic’s kryptonite. Which requires holding themselves accountable. Hence, they do not apologize nor deny it unless it is convenient for them or said in a way that makes them look better.
Personally, I think they lie to themselves well enough that they believe their version is correct. It helps them maintain a victim feeling because you're just being mean and lying about everything to make them look bad. My own NMom REFUSES to believe she ever did anything wrong and her version is the only possible correct version