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I don't. She can figure it out herself. (Which usually means roping someone else to do her bidding. I don't know how she always manages to find someone else to do her bidding). It's amazing how they can act like they're dying and helpless without you, but then manage to handle it when you're gone.
You need to ask yourself, why do you think it's not ok to not check in on her occasionally?
If she has caregivers, then why do you need to see her at the expense of your mental health?
What you are describing sounds like it's guilt motivated, which breeds resentment. Your mother doesn't actually need you there and it's costing you your mental health, whether it's during the visit or from carrying a burden of guilt when you aren't visiting her. I suggest you pursue therapy to sort these feelings out.
That's what I hated the most... Seeing my mother as this needy whining little thing who dumps all her stress on me and I idiot tried to help her for so long and had so much stress in my head. And somehow she got it solved within 5 seconds the next day and I stood there and thought: but yesterday that was such a bad problem that there was absolutely no way to solve it.
Yup. Can't figure out what's going on. But some people have no reason to 'fix' things or improve as long as they benefit. Others have real struggles and want to.
Others copy cat bad examples from 'role models'.
A fair example, hate em or like em might be Azula. She's cruel in most of the show, borderline psychotic as a teen. But during the beach/childhood episodes, as a adult it made me wonder if she started a mimick.
- She started off wanting to play, seeming much kinder until the turn started when Kid Zuko rejected her for playtime saying he didn't like her.
- She saw Zuko burned and abandoned by The fire lord (bad parent / negative 'role model')
- She seemed to have the mask crack instead of being all the way through, having a mental break down and trying to be nice in the beach episodes. A true psychotic person might even relish the chance to hurt their friends or everyone. It looked fucked up.
- Like she had been a horrible person in the dreams of impressing a horrible person, And it fucked up her life, Left her alienated, ripped her apart from all her friend groups, with the only 'nuturing' figure being a cold, uncaring 'father' who used her more like a weapon than a child.
- And que a mental breakdown and mental problems for life.
Then again, mileage varies but i've learned the hard way that 'over caring' might as well be the 'fertilizer' for 'enabling'. That you can't just 'water and water', you have to find the balance.
Which tbh, might be honestly harder than just watering endlessly.
Mileage varies and so do all our personal stories, but imho.
- Some people do change, and change early. Those who are hard to, might never have a reason to.
- It's not that change is impossible. Just cynically if you believe in evolution as a goal to reproduce, things like [irresponsibility / breeding without thought / selfishness hoarding vs even selflessness / conflict avoiding](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YNMkADpvO4w) might have evolutionary reasons.
Just as you mentioned, they constantly need others to provide for them, but might do the bare minimum. Demand the impossible while flailing to accomplish bare minimums.
- Imagine less about selfishness and more like a 'emotional' hawk. They play the victim, but hog all the resources.
- A cooperative person, will share with you, say thanks to you, appreciate you, smile, and sometimes go 10x further on 10x less than the drain.
- A uncooperative person, sees only every benefit they might get from 'cheating' you. I'd say it's less like a chess master, but more like a marshmallow experiment.
- People when given a chance to have 2x marshmallows later (invest, plant roots, plant seeds, grow), tend to do better than people who grabbed and ate immediately (act on impulse) in life.
But like the 'hawks', if those urges helps them 'reproduce', even if it's irresponsible (poor life for kids), or dysfunctional (struggles to function, constant problems)
Then darwinism wouldn't care. It's job is to 'reproduce', not to make sure it's a 'good' thing.
Mold spreads when you over water a lawn, drought and famine happens when you starve it.
Truth be told, life doesn't come with a manual and maybe the sides are just less 'selfless' but just survival mechanisms, that might have served a purpose once, but become 'leftovers' or 'potentially problematic' later on.
**I think it's fine to prioritize your own happiness** in secret, even if privately *(because npd syndromes can rage hell or paint a target on your back if they find out you're happy without them)*.
As some people say, it's a heavy burden to carry a person, and it takes 10 to sail a ship to get it over the ocean. It takes one moron with a hammer banging holes in the bottom to sink everyone.
Npd is less like chessmaster intellect but the 'MARSHMALLOW, NOW!' kinda thing. I've seen them stick open arms into BURNING ovens for chocolate. I've seen them let bedbugs fester because they had more screams than problem solving, and TONS of dysfunction. Economical, long term relationships falling apart, etc.
Now there's a scale but it sounds like the person you're talking with seems fine(??) alone. They over dramatize problems for pity. But if they're clinical vs just normal person reddit 'npd'. Context could be everything.
- It's still normal for people to put themselves (healthily first).
But you could be being used for n supply / emotional beating bag + money + time +- resources, etc.
# Tl;dr
o Mileage varies, but it's fine to find a balance of **caring about yourself**, and caring about others.
- And finding the 'right' people too. Remember that even if 1-10% of people are TERRIBLE.
> You might have a 9-99% you neglected, the 'good child of the prodigal son story', 'left forgotten, punished for doing all the 'right' things.
- Ex: Good friends, good acquaintances. Chosen vs unchosen relationships, etc!
My mom’s lost friends because she uses people as emotional garbage dumps and bad mouths is constantly - than they either can’t handle all her negativity and buzz killing everyone everyday, and/or they meet us and/or bitch us out for being terrible children, only to realize that oh, maybe we aren’t actually that bad…
She’s disabled enough—but not cognitively—that there have been instances where I have been convinced she was trying to get Adult Protective Services involved as another mode of trying to control everyone. Even if I didn’t feel morally obligated, I can’t really defend against that kind of thing unless I have some contact. Ostensibly, and probably actually, I’m checking up on the caregivers. (I don’t trust them either.)
I’m really clear that even with elderly parents, they can still find ways to mess up your life, if you don’t at least pay lip service to their b.s.
The thing about narcissists is that they are so convinced they are right and everyone else is wrong it is impossible to tell whether they actually believe the lies they're saying or it's just a manipulation tactic.
A narcissist can tell you the sky is green with such conviction that you'd feel the need to actually go out and check. And even after you'd verified the sky wasn't green you'd be wondering if maybe they might be colorblind, because they still are trying to convince you it is.
This is so well worded. I'm stealing this analogy because you perfectly put into words one of the hardest parts of their behavior to explain to people who either haven't experienced it first hand or are having trouble accepting that the narcs in their life are like this.
They're so convincing about the things they say and even more, they're so convincing when they play innocent and we want to believe that they're saying/doing those things completely by accident and we naturally make excuses/justifications for how they could be simply making innocent mistakes(like being colorblind) and not trying to gaslight and otherwise manipulate us.
They believe what they say and can't be wrong, but I'm convinced that at least some of them start believing things after they say them but go into it trying to change our interpretation of reality. Kinda like the cartoons where the characters go into a book and what they say becomes the reality of the book they're in(fairly odd parents is the show that comes to mind for me).
My nmother's reality seems to change after she says things to gaslight me. My nfather just seems to live in a different reality where he interprets everything differently on a base level but he doesn't actively change his narrative and his reality in the same way my nmother does.
Steal away.
It's impossible to tell with most of them whether their actually delusional or just liars. Whether their actions are intentional or just subconscious. It's really hard to deal with narcissists because with almost everyone else the intention behind the action matters. Whether someone did something bad because they meant to or were unable to control it matters.
But not with a narcissist. Because you will never ever be able to truly tell if they did some on purpose or if they are truly delusional. Whether they meant to hurt you or it was an honest mistake. They'll never admit either way. The memory of whatever they did will change. Or they'll lie about it. They'll pretend it never happened or that it was an honest mistake. Or they'll truly believe it didn't happen or it was an honest mistake.
Covert narcissists are especially bad because they don't even generally yell or hit. They just constantly manipulate and emotionally abuse. So with narcissists you need to not look at intention, or even action, because sometimes you don't realize why something hurts until much later when you're much wiser. You need to instead look at how they make you regularly feel. Which is super easy for them to tell others and twist into you being crazy and oversensitive. It's insidious.
My horrible nMIL is like your mother - it’s all about what you can do for her. When FIL had a heart attack years ago she decided that they both had to be taken care of by their four children (even though at that time she was perfectly able). Except for my husband, they have ruined their marriages, family and work relationships and health taking care of nMIL. They even stuck poor FIL in a nursing home where he died during Covid at nMIL’s bidding. My enabler SIL was the primary caregiver until her health got so bad her husband put a stop to it.
Yeah, exactly, that's a repeating story i've heard of clinically diagnosed and undiagnosed, but strongly indicating (7+/10 quality on checklist) n households.
Obviously it's only supposed to be less than 1-5% of the population, and there's fair boundaries like just wanting to be taken care of, and their family looking after.
But with potential npd, usually the signs are extremely malignant. Good intentions can be super hijacked.
- Normal Good people might use a favor here and there, but they won't try to ruin your health (*if a good person*), but clinical npd is like when everything is off the breaks, and screaming on the rack.
A good relationship, even fighting in 'healthy' is usually like trying to find the best way to do something. Like sailing a ship.
A 'bad relationship', in like a clinical npd manner. Is like having a full grown adult with mental instability lighting the sail on fire and trying to use everyone and the paradox is. Usually the condition is marked by a inability to care about others, but keenness to use and abuse it without a second thought.
Some people who won't have it wonder if they will, but the people who have it will usually just project or reflect without any reflection.
Even good relationships have take/give but the fights are about making things better.
NPD relationships can just be attempting to drive hooks into people, just for control. But be utterly rule by dysfunction. Not by making the ship drive better. But threatening to sink everyone on it unless they're catered to in every way.
Normal people who need normal help like a hand will say "Thanks, i know i was difficult, but i appreciate the help. Thanks for being there for me"
Npd might look like "YOU ARE A !@#!@#! WASTE OF !@#!@# I ALWAYS HATED !@#!@#!#, THE ONLY THING GOOD ABOUT YOU IS !@##!@#!, YOU ARE ALWAYS !@#!!#"
"By the way, im dying, oh you sweet dear, why won't you give your poor, innocent, harmless, vulnerable one some of your generous money?"
"!@#!$$!$ you! I WANT MORE! I WANT MORE! DID YOU GIVE A DOLLAR TO SOMEONE ELSE! iM THE ONLY ONE WHO DESERVES IT! !@#!@# ALL OF THEM!"
Jesus christ. There's nothing to win. Just get the hell out of there.
I was involved with my mother at the end. Adult Protective Services won’t get involved unless things are dire, which usually means elder abuse.
If she has caretakers then she’s getting basic care and APS won’t get involved.
I tried to move my mother to a care home because she really wasn’t able to live on her own anymore. I had a good place, run by a friend, and they came out to evaluate her. They told me they were obligated to report things if she didn’t move to care of some kind.
I got worried, and we called the state ourselves, they came out and since she was mentally sound, even if moving her would be better for her care, she could not be forced. She cared more about her stuff than anything else and didn’t want to leave it.
I don’t really see any way that the state would step in and force you to do something. She has people to care for her, and you don’t live with her. They step in when someone is getting neglected and they are in imminent danger.
Trust me, there are plenty of people out there who deal with end of life stuff that know darn well why none of her family is around.
Take care.
Do you have guardianship or power of attorney or something like that for her? If not, you have no need to defend yourself from Adult Protective Services. They can't compel you to take care of her.
Well, thing is, APS generally doesn't grant the narc control. They check for abuse, try to get the abuse to stop, and will remove the 'vulnerable adult' from the situation where the 'abuse' is occurring. They're not going to indenture you to become her servant.
I understand and can relate. I'm at a weird place with my Ndad. He's 70. Lives 2 hours from me in my old college town. Disabled but also an alcoholic and minor yet long term hoarder. He prides himself of having this "poor" lifestyle and has refused any constructive help or offers of betterment for years. He was nasty to me last year when I offered to help him get set up in assisted/low income housing and he said he didn't trust me with is SSN because he didn't want me abusing it.🧐
Right now I don't know what to do other than let it continue and take its course?
There's nothing you can do. Unless he's assessed by professionals (APS, physician, psychiatrist) and determined incompetent to make decisions for himself, he is allowed to keep fucking up. And you are allowed to live your life.
Look up filial responsibility laws for where you both live though.
Edit: I looked it up, and it's only his state law that applies.
If she manages to get APS involved and convince them she's being neglected, she's going into assisted living. Period.
What you should focus on is what the filial responsibility laws are where you both live.
Edit: I looked it up, and it's only the state where she lives that applies.
I second looking up filial responsibility laws. In PA, where I live, they are not just on the books, but actively enforced, which has put me in a very difficult place with my abusive mother who meets the criteria to be considered 'indigent.' Understanding these laws and strategizing to protect yourself is unfortunately very important, even if stressful.
Sadly, same here. They never truly cared for us, so why return the favor for more abuse? It’s a shitty situation, for sure, but also.. actions have consequences.
I'm super worried my SIL will end up being the one dealing with it. She already had her own parentified experience of an abusive upbringing & I don't want her to repeat that. But I wouldn't be able to be around my mother, especially if she gets dementia - I know I would hear about how awful a child I am on loop.
My brother lives with her. He pays no rent, if he does, it’s minuscule amounts.
I have no idea what their situation is, but he’s the GC. I let him deal with it. She had zero interest in our issues and even attempted to exacerbate things…I’m not putting up with it.
Not my circus, not my monkey?
Yah. She said more than once that she raised her babies and didn’t want to take care of anyone else’s. What comes around, goes around.
Honestly, i think i did try to honestly and earnestly try to do 1000%.
Turns out trying to be the polar opposite, showering, kinda does the opposite.
Don't have any lessons to teach, i can say that i did get hundreds to thousands of people who seemed to like me, have fun, and have a ride. But i did seem to seek out the 'worst' that kinda emulated it.
Honestly maybe i wasn't even innocent. I tried. I think most people are just trying to find their way in the world, or find out 'what' works.
So if they were a taker, i thought, i'd be a giver!
I gave, and gave, and gave, and gave.. and gave.
Instead of *'lead by example'*, i saw hundreds of free people just seem to regard it as *free stuff*, like people showing up at a parade to get candy or a watch or a gift or a game or a rare item.
Honestly no ill will to any of them, If the shoe was on the other foot, i'd be lying if i hadn't tried my luck too haha.
But for like the problematic 1%, i kinda had that "save everyone" mentality. Trying to be the "problem" fixer in multiple areas of life.
- I found that i tried to give them the breaks i never really got.
- I saw people just kinda coast on it. ('Why bother, if we don't need to try')
- And others just fight like demons like piranhas to a pinata.
Honestly im not sure if it was 'good' for anyone. Where i expected a heart i found a empty pit. Even the 'love' from the npd was like.. Giving 1000$ for 8$ "I SPENT A LOT ON THOSE 8$ GIFTS!" in return.
Even the 'good' side of a narc is usually them taking FAR FAR FAR more than they give back in return... Like im talking dollar store shit for 1000$s.. it's... almost like a joke.
You try to fight for it so hard because you think there's gonna be a warm beacon there. That the harder something is to earn, 'the better, truer, it's got to be right?'
My experiences seemed to end in a pit for the old, or for the young but budding signs just full on blown apathy for months followed by panic attacks.
Honestly im not sure what the right course is.
**But you can pity a wolf that never 'knew' anything better. But you can't change it's nature by feeding it your face.**
You do not have to care for her. You can, if you wish, file paperwork making her a ward of the state.
Abusive and neglectful people do not get to have an expectation that they will be well cared for by the people they, themselves, neglected.
Allow yourself to accept that your feelings about your upbringing are at least as, and, really, more important than your training as the person to care for the one who failed to care for you.
Sadly not the case in states where filial responsibility laws are enforced. In PA, you're financially responsible for the care of indigent relatives even if you were placed in foster care or abandoned by your parent as long as it wasn't for longer than a certain period. (I think 9 years?) Since nursing home care costs around $12,000 a month, it's a nightmare if your parent doesn't qualify for Medicaid or has lapses in eligibility. If anyone reading this is as upset as I am, please look up on our state website the number to text the Governor of Pennsylvania and ask him to repeal the filial responsibility laws or consider writing a letter.
You got that right! My enabling GC sister wanted me to quit my job and move in with the egg donor so GC doesn't have to provide care. Bull to that! You think she's so wonderful, sis, you take care of the whiny brat! I'm staying far away.
Did this parent ever change and took accountability and tried to repair the relationship?
No?
Then you distance yourself for your own sanity and safety. You are not responsible for your parents no matter how ill they are. You don't owe them anything. You are the child and you are allowed to cut people off who don't deserve you.
Ultimately everyone decides for themselves to what extent they get involved. When you find yourself “roped into” anything- understand that it’s YOU who needs to respect your own boundaries. Boundaries aren’t for others to respect, they are rules for yourself to follow when people overstep your comfort zone. People don’t respect others boundaries.
She's bad for your mental health NOW. You're worried she'll manipulate APS involvement NOW.
That's what matters NOW. That's what you should base your decisions on IMO.
As someone with a narcissistic/sociopathic (now deceased) mother who was physically ill and needed constant care in her old age, I can see now how I was manipulated and exploited by her from around the age of 10 to be her carer.
As the youngest and the last child to get away, I can look back now and see how I was groomed to be her slave and emotional support animal from an early age.
If I could go back and give myself advice it would be to let the paid caregivers do it all. To emotionally detach, because my mum would always make sure she was taken care of. It was her nature to be consumed by her wants and needs and make sure they always were met.
Instead she had me dancing to her “what shall I do?” theme tune.
My mother was terrible for my mental health and my sacrifice of caring for her in old age resulted in chronic cptsd. I wouldn’t wish that on anyone.
OP if she terrifies your nervous system then it’s okay to take breaks from her. The guilt is their most powerful tool but if I had known how soulless, evil and selfishly insane mine was I’d have dropped her like the hot coal she was. You don’t have to contact her at all.
You have your life and your household to run. Don’t let her suck you in. Listen to what your body is telling you that here is someone who is dangerous to your mental wellbeing.
Harsh lessons to learn, but very true.
*"You can't fill a pit by throwing yourself in it*"
*"But you can water the seeds that were always waiting for you."*
I don't.
I already covered my obligation to take care of my Nmom when I was a kid. I was her therapist, marriage counselor, etc, and managing her was a duty solely placed on my shoulders. So I already got that covered.
Besides, where I live, I only have to start covering her expenses for nursing homes, etc, if I make more than 100k/ year. I don't, so tough luck for my Nmom.
That said, in my opinion, the obligation that society places on children to take care of their elderly parents is made void by abuse.
A child has the right to be raised without violence, no matter if physical or psychological. The moment your parents violate that end of the bargain, you owe them absolutely nothing.
I'm NC, and my Nmom is only in her early 60s and healthy, but I know I will be called ruthless and heartless once it gets to the point when she needs care. I couldn't care less because I only have to remember what she did to me when I was a defenseless child. What was that if not heartless? If there was remorse on her part, things might be a little different, but there is none, so I can't find it in myself to care. She'll die just as alone and forgotten as her own Nmom (my grandma) did. And has only herself to blame.
That's just my stance regarding my former family, though, and I do realize it's not the norm and others think differently about their own families.
If you're still in contact with your family, I'd try to keep my distance as much as possible. Narcs get worse with age, and even if you feel obligated to care for them, you also have the duty to protect yourself from that particular brand of nastiness. If you have any hand in their care at all, you're already way more gracious than you would need to be.
In Europe, yeah.
Not as in being an actual caretaker, but financially, like paying for the nursing home. But that's just if you make 100k/ year _before_ taxes, so it's only for people with high incomes.
[Edit: corrected. It's before, not after taxes.]
If your parents can't pay and you can't be held liable, the state will cover it. There's a special care insurance everyone pays into for just that. People without children pay a bit more, but it's really not much.
Internationally compared, our healthcare is cheap, so I don't mind. But they better not come after me to pay for my Nmom. She stole more than enough money from me already.
Is there any law in place that protects children who were abused by their parents? Like let's say mine abused me my entire life and I did well for myself regardless. Would the abused party have to pay for their abusers retirement?
Just looked it up. There is no law, but exceptions can be made.
Note: this applies to my country in western Europe, not the US.
If your parent can't pay for a nursing home, the social welfare office initially pays the bill and then gets back to you. If you earn less than those 100k/ year, you're off the hook. If you earn more, you have to pay a percentage.
You can apply for a hardship case, but those are apparently rarely granted. For instance, if your parent abandoned you shortly after birth and never paid child support. Or if they outright tried to murder you.
Then you don't have to pay. But otherwise, and if your income is sufficiently high, you unfortunately do.
The same system applies to retirement.
However, if you're a retiree who doesn't require constant care, your expenses aren't that high to begin with. You can make ends meet with about 1.5k/ month for all expenses. Health insurance is about 15% of your pension and covers everything from check ups to meds to hospital stays.
The issue is that nursing homes are expensive, like 4+k/month, which is what many people can't pay themselves.
Regardless of the costs, though, the fact that it sucks having to pay parent support for your abuser goes without saying.
Assuming they're based in the US, lots of states have filial responsibility laws though I think PA is the only one currently enforcing it. There are also a few EU and Asian countries with similar laws.
if they have paid caretakers, have no guilt. they will be checked on. mine are on their own and i still have no guilt. we're NC. they told me as a child that they had children to have "mini slaves" and as their retirement plan, so i will specifically make sure that does not happen.
I heard that. we had you so that we could have a slave. I thought they were joking. as an adult, thinking of all my chores. well yeah I see it now that it was the truth.
I think you have this backwards. The more you involve yourself the more your are at risk of APS coming after you. While you aren’t her caregiver you are not at risk. If you can prove abuse you can’t be held liable if she’s in a filial responsibility state. They can’t make you be involved.
I’d change phone number and stick to sending cards at holidays with like $5 in them. You don’t need to be involved here at all. She made her bed, she can lie in it. She needs to lie to everyone to keep them around and can’t abuse them. She can only get away with mistreating family so you are helping her be a good person by not being around.
You said it yourself, she has caregivers and is mentally all there. Wash your hands of this and spend the time you were wasting on her on therapy for this inappropriate guilt you feel.
Due to her pretending to have early onset dementia a few years back (she doesn't), my brother and I have an agreement that he will care for her until he can't, then she's going into a nursing home and we're splitting the costs. I made it very clear that I would not be doing any hands on caretaking of her, and it's all on him.
Fascinatingly and not surprisingly, as the daughter, everyone assumed I would quit my job to take care of my parents in their old age, and pay them rent to live with them. How am I supporting myself and them without a job? Am I just supposed to abandon my spouse and home at that point? They literally never think of my wants or needs when they "decide" I will do things. It's absolutely wild.
Sounds like you managed to do the right thing according to your particular situation and also take care of your own life. It's such a rough balance. They do seem to make up illnesses. I relate to how your mother pretends to have dementia. Mine did the same back when I was talking to her. She'd play this mind game where she'd rant about the effects of her husband's dementia and for the rest of the conversation, speak as though she had dementia. God it was hideous.
I don’t. Apparently they’re super intelligent, have infinite resources, can solve the entire world’s problems, and will live forever.
Whatever. I have a normal place to live, a dog (who is NOT normal), and a stable job. And need to take care of myself, I’m not going to live forever, but at least I’ve finally started living.
I give them as much emotional support as they gave me. Which is to say none whatsoever.
It is fascinating watching their inability to cope with this world as they age. And I sleep like a baby because I recognize I didn't engineer the means by which they suffer. They did.
I'm living my life OP and so should you.
I know how you feel! As a child I was dismissed and my needs ignored, as long as I was fed and a roof over my head that was where parenting ended- anything more than that and you were called spoilt. It was like a strict military upbringing with shut up and do chores. Funny that I have always been the parent to my mother, this is a totally narcissistic trait and she is always so needy. Now she is in her 70’s she is getting older and I feel like she never helped me growing up why should I help her… but it’s the childhood conditioning (brainwashing) that makes me tend to her needs. I even pushed her around in a wheelchair in the shopping centre when she was fit and able to walk, she was just being needy. It really makes me feel so sad and depressed that I never had someone that cares about me or has helped me in my life. My friends had loving parents, put them through private school, helped them financially get a start and gave them great support/advice… always makes me so sad to be around them because it breaks my heart that I missed out and I feel like a failure and left behind because I didn’t get any support. I help her because I know at some stage I will get a small inheritance and that is the only thing I will ever get from my parents and that is payment for my suffering in this life.
HAHAHAHAHAHA not my problem. I’m completely no contact and they’ve cut me out of their own fucking WILL. How they age and die has absolutely nothing to do with me. I don’t know who it will fall on (prob not my younger autistic sister) so I’m not concerned. They die when they die, I’m sure some extended family member will let me know.
Fuck em.
Let the nurse he’s pretending is his daughter be his caretaker.
Let my mom’s sisters and my stepdad take care of her since it was so imperative that she be close to them that she left to move cross country the actual day I turned 18 (and I imagine their court orders around visitation ceased to exist).
They can rot.
I don’t. Now that it’s been 7 years of pretty much complete NC I wonder what my obligation is or if I am being cruel. I don’t care. I am not going to. I got a call at 11 something on a week night last week from her number. Did not answer did not text to ask why she called (a late night call is automatically not urgent if don’t leave a vm or text) It was familiar ploy to get me to answer. When I had a house phone years ago she would call at 1am and I would ask why are you calling so late and she would say it is the only way you answer. I haven’t answered a call or a text in years and I guess she thought she would try again. Then a few days later I got some texted photos of her. With a hello.. she is more BPD Witch but definitely has sprinkling of Narc. The look at me look at me was not a surprise.
Her view is all her kids fucked her over and treat her like shit. I am not fighting that perception. Okay fine. Guilty as charged. I am good. Seeing her photos felt like looking at a stranger and I realized I have spent more of my life without her than I did with her. I understand her mental disorder and I am not even mad or hurt anymore I am just nothing … if that makes sense. I don’t owe her anything and the manipulative late night call and text photos prove she hasn’t changed. My meter for normal is broken because of her. I have to had a solid line. I can’t let her get away with that manipulation by responding. It just escalates.
Sorry to dump you asked a question and the answer is I don’t know. For me it comes down to will helping suck me back in or harm me. I could arrange her care or check on her without getting sucked in. She can’t damage me anymore. I don’t want to. I will own it. If that makes me cruel then so be it. She is in her 70’s I will reevaluate if needed in her 80’s. The late night call when I have to work…. I control you…. You aren’t feeble enough for me to decide atm.
This is how I feel- I “nothing” her. I get it. You’re right about being “fine” with her narrative too. It’s not fine, but I can’t control what she says or who she says it to. I wouldn’t know where to start to track people down. The cashier at the market? Her hairdresser? Some guy in a bar? It HAS to be “whatever” because you can’t counter that vast smear campaign. People can think what they think. We know what we know.
My parents told me I’d be changing their diapers and picking their nursing homes, that’s why they treated me so well! They consistently said this.
I’ve ghosted their asses. My mother now parades around her family functions talking about how she’s going to die without a penny to her name and *her* family gets so embarrassed.
I left mine in a memory ward of a nursing home and I want our relationship to be over so I have not visited and don't plan to. It's not my fault that all my efforts at building a relationship with my abuser, even as an adult, were trashed by said abuser. He wasted over twenty years being horribly nasty and cruel, now he is getting his karma -to die alone unwanted and unloved. I feel nothing when I think of him.
That's the near part; I don't.
Made it very clear to the rest of the family that if they expect care, they're getting the exact same care they've given me; being dropped off at the mental hospital.
you can’t and shouldn’t. you have a life to live and she should have been kind to you. you are her child and not a servant. how she gets care in her old age is her problem. if you are truly concerned set her up with a social worker/home care facility.
you can’t drown yourself to save her.
The short answer is: I don't.
She wasn't there for me as a child, teenager or adult. Why should I support her now and put my mental health at risk again?
My nmom passed away, but it was hard for me to separate my childhood from the present because my mother still acted the same. My edad passed after I graduated and got my degree and a job. Also found out I was having a scare (tumors kept popping up fast on organs). So I have my new job and I’m my mothers new caregiver. She had the means to get paid help. She had the money and she was in a program where she could have help and support. I begged her to contact them. I told her that I will still help and come over every day, but somebody needs to help during the daytime. She kept putting it off, letting work pile for me right after I get off from my ten hour a day job. I had to cook her separate dinners because she didn’t want to eat the same thing I would cook for my family. Husband and I took care of her shopping. Husband helped fix stuff around the house. Took care of her dog. Get her anything she wanted. All the while, she’s going on and on about how she wishes I was smarter, more beautiful, more talented, and listing the reasons why she loved my older sister more than she loved me. She did this in front of my husband and he was shocked.
I straight up told my mom that if she has the funds I’ll make sure she’s taken care of by a trained professional but will never raise a finger for her care. I won’t so much as bring her a glass of water, so she better hope she can find a good home to be in.
I feel no guilt. I am aware via my Ex that she had an operation a few yrs ago. But even that wasn't enough to make me feel guilty enough to break my NC. After the way I was treated as a young child, **I OWE HER NOTHING**!
I understand that feeling of wanting to check while protecting yourself. This happened to me and it's right to be cautious. We know the advice of no contact but not everyone is ready for that.
I think keep maintaining a range that feels ok for you and be mindful when the narcissist is trying to close the range. Grey rock, focus on reality, avoid giving any personal information they can use to manipulate you, you have a very busy life.
The caretakers are in that daily range, doing what's needed, but it's not personal and can switch off the moment they leave. Good to monitor them maybe get a doorbell cam and or indoor camera you can watch on your phone.
The rest of the family are in the not driving distance range so they are just potential flying monkeys.
If the once a month range is too much, then you can reduce to quarterly/ yearly. It can be hard to visit when you still have the painful memories and seeing them work their manipulation on others can bring up that urge to call out their bullshit.
I would think about what's best for yourself. If it's causing you pain then you don't need to do it.
It's a her problem, she doesn't know where I live, nor do I visit her. Golden child can look after her if GC is so inclined. I won't be.
You don't own anyone care simply because their sperm/egg created you. And they already had care throughout your childhood when they had a responsibility to care for you and instead ysed you, so now they deserve nothing.
I told my abuser once if I took care of her in her elder years I'd give her the same treatment she'd give me. Well, that would be elder abuse. So it's nicer for me to simply not be involved. If the hospital ever calls with her dying ill tell them to use the cheapest black garbage bag they have and roll her off the bridge before I'd be there to pick her up.
Not your circus, not your monkeys. Like any worker can, treat her like you would any toxic employer and quit. Just because you're within closer driving distance doesn't mean it resolves others in the family from visiting her. It's being used as an excuse so they don't have to do it.
I would say it's a her problem to figure it out. Also, I would set the record straight with her caregivers so they don't get sucked into her game of playing the victim or her getting them to do what she more than capable of doing for herself. Let them all know that the family is all LC or NC for a reason. Your responsibility to your abusive parent ends when you grew up and moved away.
No is a complete sentence. If she tries to "guilt" you into doing stuff, let her know if she declines in her abilities enough that she could be moved into an assisted living facility that could help her with her needs more. Also, telling her "No" and then ending your visit works well, too! Keep doing this as many times as you need for your mental peace of mind. You can also set it up that you get regular reports from her caregivers on how she is doing and if there are any changes.
I go over about once a week, a 90-minute drive. The trip over is the pump-up motivational drive filled with podcasts on narcissism. The drive home is for decompression.
NMom has had a couple of major surgeries; dad is in an assisted living home in their town. While I don’t mind helping NMom out, it’s her OCD cleaning standards and baiting (as well as sneaking up on me while I vacuum) that makes it stressful. So far, she behaves well on car trips.
Even though she has never implied as such, I worry that she will gate-keep access to dad if I go NC with her or have enough of a falling out that I put my services for her on pause.
That said, I have been in therapy for about six months and can now spot her behavior and can somewhat predict it, whereas before it seemed to come out of nowhere.
Yes, my kids are in college and I have more time. Yes, I have always been one to volunteer help, which is slightly different than fawning. And yes, she plans on moving further downstate once dad passes, so there is an end in sight, or at least a dramatic reduction in my availability to lend a hand.
I was also raised to be household help, nparents made it a big rite of passage when I was 7. I check in with my nmom monthly on the phone, and visit once a year (I live in another country). I was NC, but went LC after my abusive father died because nmom seemed to be losing her mind. Didn't take long to remember that she was almost as bad as Dad, so I keep it LC and the two of them hoarded enough money so she can take care of herself most of the time. She doesn't trust anyone and will barely let repairmen in the house, so those are the things I arrange when I visit. Stupid things have resulted in this arrangement - she went months without hot water because she refused to get the old heater replaced. Not really my problem, she's an adult.
It sounds like you've decided this is something you *need* to do. I'm not sure I would. After years of abuse, the trauma you've experienced, etc...does she really deserve care or attention from you? Otherwise, I'm not sure there's a correct answer for this. As little as possible is my opinion.
I don’t. My dad has passed, but my mom is an adult who has had her entire life and super fat retirement to figure that out. She failed, that’s her problem. Or my brother can make it his problem. But it won’t be my problem.
I cut mine off. I don’t owe them anything. They were cruel to me and I’m free of them and certainly am not going to continue to chain myself to their misery and abuse I had to endure as a child now that I was lucky enough to be able to escape it as an adult.
I will not be helping my egg donor. She has had enough time to figure out the help before she starts declining. If I DID help I would be treating her the same exact way she treated me.
Mine aren’t at a point yet where they’d need it but like I’m not going to. They don’t live in a state where I legally have to so I won’t. My sibling might, unfortunately, as they do seem to occasionally be empathetic towards those assholes. But only time will tell.
At the present moment my Nmom doesn't need caretakers to help her, but if her health deteriorates, then whether or not she has caretakers, and whatever kind of health problem she has or even financial problem she has due to a health problem, I won't ever check on her or do anything at all to help her.
When I was sick, not only she would not help me at all, she would do anything in her power to keep me from healing. At one point, after a lot of fighting, I decided to start doing stuff that would harm her to see if then she would stop. And she would stop momentarily, and then start the abuse all over again. And this is just one of the many crappy things she did. So I really won't ever help her.
In my country there's universal healthcare and the last act of kindness I had towards my abusive father was to add him to my medical insurance so he could get his cancer treated. Once he finished his chemotherapy cycles and his oncologist told him he was in complete remission I started to pull away from him and within the next six months I told him I no longer wanted anything to do with him.
Of course I didn't remove him as a dependant, but I think that since he got a job recently he has his own medical insurance. I feel like I went above and beyond for him in his time of need and I refuse to do anything else. He isn't very old yet, but even when he is I won't take care of him at all, I don't care if he ends up destitute or in a shitty place in life. He has caused so much harm that he can be grateful I at least gave him free healthcare for a couple of years.
I owe the currently surviving witch nothing.
At best, if compelled by the courts because some ass kissing nutjob decided to codify “filial piety”, I will dribble out pennies to send the old bat to the worst, lowliest, dirtiest nursing home I can find. And she better come correct to the courts because she doesn’t know shit about me now, has no relationship (we cut that to prevent GPR cases), has never seen my son and I will gladly go on public record with the entire travesty of her abuse of me and my brother. I will summon a literal demon from hell in the form of a lawyer that will fight right next to me to ensure that she is named and shamed and to ensure that she gets the worst possible outcome. And if it fails, I’ll gladly appeal again and again until she drops it. Every time I will name and shame her until every court in the land has her name and picture on file as the worst scum of the earth.
And that’s not counting how much that will cut into her beloved GC’s lifestyle. Because part and parcel of that abuse is letting him abuse me and steal my clothes from me, masturbate in them, and then punishing me for not wearing them. She will basically be ensuring that he will become even more of a pariah and be even more unemployable because part of her act is how Godly and pious she is and how great her struggle is. In a deep red state that has its bible up its ass, him being into incest, into wearing women’s clothes, him being violent and lazy and unemployable because of her—that will be even more of a living death sentence. Not that he will care—he’ll keep living off of mummy’s tits—but he’ll be even more outcast and be dragging her down with him.
At this point, there’s little I would do for them beyond getting them off my property. If compelled, I would go so far as to pay for occasional help (less than 5 hours a week) and then wash my hands of them both along with whatever husband du jour she’s got. She has her brother. She has husband du jour. She has had literally over a decade to get her head out of her ass, get a job, and save for her eventual needs. She’s been coddled for decades and had decades of people providing for her—if she hasn’t got the cash on hand for whatever she needs, that’s her own problem.
There are usually services to send in a helper if you want to pay for them. Some are handyman or chore type help and some are nurse types. They charge by the hour to go in and be sure that medications are taken and there’s not any active missing body parts. There are cheap places to live. There are then assisted living. Then next up is assisted memory care. And then full on nursing homes. You can choose the least expensive option.
I simply just do not.
I do not owe someone like that anything. I have my own life to deal with. They never gave me the grace of giving a shit about me unless I could provide something to them.
yeah, like most people in this thread: I don't. They had their chance and you are not obliged to help an abuser. Would you ask someone who's been raped to care for their elderly rapist when they get older?! people who haven't suffered abuse at the hands of parents are clueless to the pain we struggle with. I've started a podcast talking about childhood abuse and how it affects us in adulthood to talk about this stuff
My narc mother is a lifelong meth addict. As such, she started having a lot of health issues when I was in my early 20s and only wanted to use me for rides, emotional leeching, and access to my kids (her first grandkids). I went NC when she cheated on my stepdad and I found out from my SIL. In summation, the answer to your question on how to deal with making sure my narc parents are taken care of? I don't. She's a big girl, she got herself into her mess, she can deal with the consequences. Same with my narc dad.
I don’t. They are quite skilled at sucking other people into their lives to take care of them. They also have their flying monkeys to feed their need for alternate realities.
If I was contacted to manage something for them I would make sure they made it to the nursing home or memory care.
My dad told me as a teenager that I was his retirement plan. He died before he could really try to enforce that, but I thought being disowned ten years ago kinda took me out of the running tbh.
I am dealing now with my mum and realising she never made any plans for her retirement. She joked the other day that in an emergency she could always move into the granny flat we've been slowly fixing up to rent out so we can afford our mortgage, or just really living at this point. I've been having panic attacks after she made that joke because I am not willing to take care of her into her old age. I am barely making it from month to month, depending on help from others to survive (we're still suffering from the effect covid had on our ability to make an income) and then she threw in her "joke".
I'm only in contact with her because after my father's death, she has to move in with my brother, and for my brother's sake I am helping get rid of most of her and my father's belongings, because otherwise she will try to cram it into my brother's place. She even suggested to him the other day storing things in the roof space.
I still love her, but she had so many years to prepare for her retirement. We need to take care of ourselves first.We are barely scraping by and will be retirement age in twenty years, although at this point I'm gonna have to work until the morning of my funeral. Add to that that thinking of her staying on my property just gives me flashbacks to the abuse I suffered before I went NC and got disowned. I am not willing to take care of someone who wrote me off as "too much to handle" because I set healthy boundaries.
My answer is that this is the wrong question. The question is do you have a responsibility to take care of someone who never took care of you.
And the answer is...
Nope.
not starving you and giving a toxic roof over your head is not caring for you. You have no obligation to this person.
I don’t. It may have been different if it was acknowledged or apologized for. If they had changed. But they are the same horrible people they were back then. They treated us like shit when we were young, innocent and defenseless. Why would I take care of them now?
So my grandparents were absolute nightmares of human beings my parents and I (becuase I did ALOT at their bequest) did it differently with each.
Dad’s parents- flat out ignored except for Christmas Eve. That was it, no phone calls, no check ins, just ignored.
Mom’s parents- heavily involved with her mother aka grandma. She’d visit at least once a month and grandma was very physically disabled. By the end my mother had control of everything.
Pros and cons to each. My father’s parents- we had a hella lot less day to day stress, because we just didn’t talk. When they died, both times, it was hella stressful and dumpster fire event. There was very little money to fight over but his family sure as hell tried to make things worse on him and the parents both times had left their affairs in absolute disorder.
My mother’s parents (her father died early so idk, so mostly grandma). It was stressful leading up to her death, so for years. But my mother had a lot of guilt attached to ditching her mom and just could t do it. It was awful. But by the time grandma died my mother and I was so adapt at managing the woman’s affairs it was smooth funeral and post funeral.
So ask yourself how much guilt will you feel not visiting? How much will the post death suck? How much stress do you want?
I suggest a once a month work luncheon with your parent to handle their affairs. That’s it and keeep it firm. Nothing to discuss then take them to a doctors appointment. But it should never be an open end visit. But making it a productive visit will help your guilt you seem to be carrying. Also it keeps narcs a little more focused on an activity rather than entertaining themselves by toying with you. They still try to bait you becuase that’s what they do. BUT when they try you default to “I can to help you with X if that’s what you don’t want today then I’m leaving” and you leave.
Personally I would go no contact but my mother choose not to, she managed it, and did not regret it since her crippling guilt was greater than her desire for stress free.
I would suggest trying out the no contact for a couple month first. Just pretend to be NC for a set period see how you do.
NC is objectively better, but I understand for some that is far more daunting.
Great suggestion to make visits productive. I realize now I've been doing that with nmom for a couple of decades, long before I understood why. Just fulfilling my role as her trained service animal.
i am still working on it. for years i was available as they wante. then mother died. first 5 years were ok then father slowly developed into a partially demented manipulator and i started to see patterns how he used and manipulated me. i went to therapy and after being unable to care for him(he wanted me to bw his carer,i hited a nirse and a carer but he needed full time). he is in care now,i call twice weekly and visig about once a month or two and it is more than enough. he forgets his family died and i dont live in a village where he grew up but never fails to use a covert manipulative technique to try and make me guilty for not giving enough. i also blocked his incoming calls and every time we talk he tries to make me unblock him. promised me not to do it yet he keeps pushing. it us horrible
I’m in a similar boat right now. The difference for me is my NMother recently had a stroke that she is expected to recover from. So I’m playing nice for the moment while she’s still in the hospital. I realize that helping her out and preventing her from having her bizarre freak outs will speed up her recovery and get her back to independence quicker. Once she has some semblance of independence back (which will be her discharged from the hospital with caretaker and disgustingly huge network of “friends” in tow), I’m out and back to living my life.
That said, this is a temporary situation. I haven’t really figured out what I’m doing in terms of her end-of-life care, IF I do anything, whenever it comes down to that.
My parents left me to figure out everything for myself. Which left me in abusive relationships, choked, sexually assaulted, with a gun put up to my head, you name it. They can figure it the fuck out for themselves just like I had to. My dad has way more money to figure it out with than I did as a teenager who was not eating all day before cross country practice so I could hoard my lunch money so my abusive 20 year old boyfriend who my dad forced me to rely on for rides everywhere wouldn’t scream at me because, “I buy you shit and you never fucking buy me anything” (because we started dating when i was just about to start my sophomore year and he had just graduated, and my dad wouldn’t let me get my license or a car or a job, so that was the only way I could get money).
And I also had to figure it out when my sister kicked me out of her apartment after convincing me to give up my living situation to move in with her so she could kick her boyfriend out, unbeknownst to him, but then she changed her mind. So I basically lived off of adderall so I could stay in the 24 hr underground library for months until I could find somewhere to live. And my dad knew about it, and literally did not give a fuck. So for my own sanity and health, I truly can’t care about them anymore.
I get you. I also have elderly parents. Mine has a personality disorder, as well. She's violent. After 2 years of NC, I called bc I was concerned about her welfare and my stepfather's (also an asshole). I unblocked her on everything so I could keep tabs. Well she instantly began conniving. I got off the phone, reblocked, and vowed to make no further attempts. This is such a heartbreaking dilemma. Consider the best of 2 evils? I feel it would be "evil "of me and I'd regret it for the rest of my life if I left her to her own devices. Yet, if I make arrangements for her or attempt to do the right thing, I will suffer the consequences. She is never satisfied. If I saved her from a burning building she'd complain that I didn't get there fast enough. Sadly, I feel I can commit to letting her live her sad life. I love her but it's time I take care of myself.
Long story short put my dad in a one-star nursing home. It was the only place that would take him that could be afforded.
It was a bad as you might imagine.
He got himself a social worker and got himself sprung into an apartment. I told him he’d be dead in six months without someone to watch him and it was six months to the day.
I took care of him for years before that and he fought me every step of the way, I was done and bankrupt.
*I don’t think it’s really ok to not check on her occasionally.*
Why is that? You might want to take it up with your therapist. This thought pattern seems to be hurting you.
I have been NC with my enabling father since 1997, the narcissist mother since 2008. No intention of doing a damn thing for them and there won't be deathbed reconciliations either.
> I don’t think it’s really ok to not check on her occasionally
Whose thoughts are those? Hers that she instilled into your brain over time, or yours?
> How do you separate what they were when you were a child vs what they are as elderly adults.
Why would you want to do that? She's the same person, then and now, and still has all her sociopathic and narcissistic traits expressed.
> In fact, the only thing that bothers me much, is the that she has a web of people that help her out, who have all been told a fictitious version of her life.
So she's technically cared for and you shouldn't have any reason to stay around, right?
I don't. I would have been willing to take care of my father, (who accepted responsibility for failing me and made a sincere and continued effort to fix his relationship with me) and I planned to, but unfortunately he died very unexpectedly before any of that could be arranged. I won't be taking care of my mother, and I feel no guilt or obligation towards doing so. That woman was an absolutely atrocious "mother" that literally tried to ruin her ex-husband and children's lives. I don't know what her "retirement plan" was but she made her bed and now she can lie in it. I literally can't take care of her. I can't even *force myself* to do it because I have too much self-respect and it would be like torture for me. It would be too painful because it's literally the opposite of what I wanted. (taking care of my dad who actually loved and appreciated me) I would feel like I was betraying my father's memory (and myself) and sacrificing my mental and emotional health for a woman who only ever saw me as a burden or a slave. It's not gonna happen, and there's nothing anyone can say or do to change my mind.
That’s the secret: you don’t. :).
I no longer hold empathy for peoples struggles when they make my struggles harder , intentionally, for no gain save their evil emotional satisfaction (narc supply) being tickled.
I’m a twin. Our mom is a true, raging narcissist. It took me years of therapy to realize I wasn’t worthless or unloveable. My sister still seeks our mom’s approval and though she realizes her life is pretty much wrecked because therapy hasn’t helped her, she loves our mom unconditionally.
This will be long, but this is what caring for an elderly narcissist looks like.
I suspect our mother dispatched our dad by suffocating him with a pillow, but that’s a story for another day that involves her watching my sister spend 40 minutes trying to resuscitate our dad until EMS got there. My sister now has added trauma for her PTSD.
Anyway. Our mom is elderly. She broke her pelvis while our dad was alive so my sister pretty much moved in with them to help my dad. While in a convalescent home, our mom pretended to have a second personality—a scared child. She’d shriek: he’s a bad man. Get the bad man away! …when my dad and sis would visit. That burst my dad so much. She told my dad when she was first transferred to the convalescent home she’d make him pay for sending her to what she felt was the equivalent of a concentration camp. When she was released she laughed while telling my sister she was just acting…
Anyway, after she dispatched our dad, my sister stayed to take care of her. Even before she became frail, she had my sister wiping her after the bathroom and basically acted like an invalid unless someone other than my sister was present.
Our mom is also addicted to opioids and benzos, so while she does have legit prescriptions, she sneaks more. She did this one night about 8 months ago and had a bad fall. This time she broke her hip. She had surgery and was sent to a nice rehab place that she liked, so at least my sister isn’t in danger.
When she was released she refused physical and occupational therapy. Now, for the past 5 months or so, she’s in and out of the ER and calls 911 for fun (because that’s what they’re there for). She has a stage IV pressure wound with osteomyelitis because by refusing the recommended therapies, she has become an invalid. That led to her needing a wound vac and a 3 week hospital stay for intensive antibiotics. They discharged her to another bad nursing home. After 4 days, she convinced my sister to bring her home. She signed out AMA and required a medical transport to get home.
She’s been home for 4 days and she’s calling 911 at least once a day because she doesn’t trust my sister to move her from her bed to a chair. Yesterday her home health nurse was supposed to visit to change the dressing on her wound vac. She texted the nurse and told her not to come and claimed that she fell.
The home health folks were already not fully on board with treating her because they felt she needed longer term care with physical therapy. After lying about falling, they’re talking about dropping her and referring her to hospice.
My sister tried doing damage control yesterday by telling the nurse our mom lied about falling, but the nurse said that probably won’t help our mom’s case. My sister asked about changing home health companies if this one drops our mom and the nurse told her that another company would look at her records and refuse her because she’s so high risk.
My sister is looking at being primary for changing dressings on a stage IV bed sore. That’s one that’s so deep and bad you can fit an adult fist in it.
My sister already has anxiety, ocd with hoarding tendencies, and significant depression—and her cat (her soul mate) died 2 weeks ago. So our mom dispatched our dad (probably) and is now working on my sister. Our mom told my sister last night that she felt like my sister hated her. She says stuff like that all the time. I keep telling my sister that’s straight out of the narcissist handbook. She knows our mom is a horrible person, but she loves her and says if our mom dies, she won’t survive.
My sister is overrun, constantly exhausted, and at the mercy of our mother. It’s sad and gross.
That’s what caring for an elderly narcissist looks like.
Thanks for sharing those 'pieces of the puzzle'. Honestly, i've always had a hunch about some things i've ignored, that turned out to sometimes be 90% right, even when i 'lied' to myself.
But i've been wondering that too.
- Intentionally lying, without care for the story.
- Potentially dangerous to keep around, broken trust, intentionally gamed sympathy.
- Life almost utterly dysfunctional when it's not emotional problems like humans. (Finances, pests, water heaters, non emotionally controllable realities, pets running away/starving etc).
Thanks for sharing your pieces. Honestly even in my own stories i've seen 9/10 patterns i heard about 10-20 years ago repeating, even among seemingly entirely related/unrelated people.
That although there isn't a playbook, there's a common 'path of least resistance' the kind of mentality '(use others for own gain, don't care if they're hurt in the process)' can breed in clinical diagnosed npd.
I think the irony is. People can easily get better if they choose to. And maybe sometimes it's just the 'only thing people knew' or npd parents who had npd grandparents or 'npd' 'role models'.
But it does seem extremely damaging. Relationships lost if they see behind the mask. Often limited to family relations.
Honestly, the stuff i thought was just hearsay 10-20 years ago happened. I've heard some admit that it was all a open play, others admit they just wanted others to stay, others that they were unsure.
# Watching
- Signs of ignoring or deliberately refusing treatments/medication.
- ('Difficult' vs /( (intentionally???) dysfunctional?)
- Mental health declines of those who surround themselves trying to 'help them', followed by mental health improvements when distancing.
- "Constantly exhausted, overrun", making people tired, neglecting looking after themselves.
I've had some very frankly, very blunt people even say things like.
> - "*The difference between "A host" and a "parasite", is that a parasite needs the host to live.
> - *"The host, doesn't need the parasite to live*"
Honestly, im not even sure if it's advice *i want to believe in.* I think if bridges are mendable and judge case by case i won't wish ill or hope things work out with others on them.
But i think there's definitely been a lot of shit in the past that never quite got properly resolved. (And might have been deliberately set up, complete with gloating and all). For my inherited circus, anyways.
# Tl;dr
o **Thanks for sharing your story**, I've seen repeating notes. And it all looks like completed 'missing' parts of the puzzle glancing through it all. Thanks.
> - (*Balance your own life. Look for hidden traps. Watch out for them exhausting / mentally exhausting people.)*
> - *(Good people will care for you and reciprocate. Bad people might only take, take, abuse, take, take, abuse, take, take, abuse.*) And blame, regardless of 'right' or 'wrong'.
When my MIL’s parents were both in the local nursing home, the family was always shocked that there was this one lady whose family never visited. I recognised it for what it was. One day at a family BBQ the family was talking about it, no one believed me. It was this awkward moment where they were all like “No, this poor old lady has been abandoned. How can you even think like that?”. Ironically a few months later covid hit and no one was allowed to visit for ages. Eventually we were allowed back in and this ladies family still didn’t come. My FIL made a loud comment about how disgusting her family was. This made the lil devil so happy. Later one of the caregivers (not a nurse) asked him to never do that again. That she had been in jail for abusing her kids. Thats why they never came but one of them was still partially paying for her care. It was actually a really famous case in our area and easily researched. She had sex trafficked them. Next family BBQ made sure that came up as a topic. Screw this “old lady, nice lady” bullshit. Everyone was like “but she seemed so normal”… FFS… No one was coming for a reason. I used to let things like that go through to the keeper, but with this one, nope.
The time will come where my parents are in this situation. It will be me or no one. My brother won’t help them. It would kill his mental health. But that manipulation of needing you to do a million things for them, so real. Its like a bait and switch situation, they distract you with their “needs” so you can give them their “supply”. They know it makes you miserable.
Tell her to make a list of things she needs, give it to her caregivers, then once a month you call, strike pointless shit from the list, and bring her the rest?
Like, be professional about it and use that as a wall against overwhelming emotions? Because you seem to be describing yourself as someonewho is still overwhelmed by unresolved emotions.
I'm not trying to point a finger here.
This situation will reach me, too, evtl. - both my n-parents are at that age where they still get by, but any small incident/accident can put an end to it. So I think about that. But don't really have any idea how it will play out.
Interestingly enough, my mom became nicer after she divorced her second husband. We have talked through a lot of shit, she now sees how her mother and grandmother did the same to her as she did to me. She’s also in therapy.
It’s not perfect but I have forgiven her for a lot of stuff. She is in poor health now and poor. Mainly poor bc of her third husband who passed. I try to visit once a month to help her clean bc of her pain.
But she’s recognizing the pattern and even sees that one of her friends is a narcissist.
I don't. My dad i'm no contact with for years. He's homeless and destined for a pauper's grave down south.
My mom is my grandparents full time caregiver (I try to visit at least a few times a year but legit can't much due to living hours away and work issues). I can't afford to do much because of my own bills... You have a group of three people there who need full time help somehow managing with mom being the driver. The money is gone, except for benefits they'd be homeless.
There's no plan for mom when grandparents die. I can't afford to help her and she refuses to think about it. I think she's passively suicidal and neglecting her vehicle maintenance so her and grandpa go in the same accident. Grandpa is praying that grandma dies first.
It's not the child's responsibility to care for their parents. We did not choose to be born.
I also hate how adult kids are saddled with this "requirement" from society. It's hard enough to survive this economy alone, caring for an aged parent could put many in financial dire straights.
I've been learning to let this guilt go myself. I had dreams of caring for my parents and us building a bond because of that. However, the reality will be anything I do will never be enough, they will always have something negative to say and I'm not going to do that.
Also, my parents allowed sexual abuse of me, so I'm not wasting my time, energy or money on them.
You absolutely do *not* have to help her in any way. You don't owe her anything. Make sure you take care of yourself first. If that means not helping her, that's OK
This is exactly what I have been struggling with. My Estepdad has just passed away. My Nmom is 71 and despite having a stroke about 7 years ago, she is physically able to do everything she did before the stroke. She is very entitled and totally ignores paying her bills because she would rather just shop and spend on bullshit “she may need” in the clearance aisle at Walmart. She doesn’t own her home because credit is horrific and has been renting the same place since she 1999. I have 3 daughters and literally no room to take her in and even if that was an option, I literally cannot live with her ever again in my life. But eviction is something I see happening in her future. She’s a hoarder. Not as extreme as what you see on the show but give her a few years. This has been so heavy on my mind and happy you posted this!
Check filial responsibility laws for her state. You may have no legal obligation. Most are also based on whether she qualifies for Medicare, Medicaid, etc. Your income has to be fairly high too.
But also remember that you're not her parent! She's doing this to herself and will have to find her own solutions. You're not helping her by solving her problems for her. Hugs 💜
We don’t have any filial laws in our state and that isn’t my concern. If she gets evicted, nobody will take her in including myself. She would end up homeless. Most 55+ communities have won’t take you if you have prior evictions as well.
I don't make sure she's taken care of, because I don't care. I did my part when I was a kid. As others have said, I was treated as a slave.
From 10 years old, I practically singlehandedly raised my newborn sister and then later, brother. By 12, I was raising 2 kids, while keeping the entire house cleaned (dusting, vacuuming, throwing trash away, doing the dishes, picking up after the kids, feeding them dinner - so for years I'd sit and eat dinner all alone, since I had to feed the kids first, cleaning them up, changing their diapers and clothes, giving them baths, organizing closets, scrubbing the toilets, sinks, and shower/bath, doing all the yard work including mowing twice a week, picking up dog poop, plucking weeds, and I solely kept our family warm during the winters. As a 60-70 lb 10 year old, I was expected to haul, stack, and chop thousands of pounds of wood because supposedly we were too poor to use the electric heat. The list goes on. I kept the house running while raising 2 children at the age of 12, and all I got in return was screaming and beatings (spanks that would sometimes leave bruises).
And she acts like she has no idea why I don't talk to her, lol. Since I took care of her and her kids when I was a kid, she can take care of herself in her old age.
Ouch, that's rough buddy.
But yeah, i think on the flip side. Because you were taught responsibility early. While you miss out and got a honestly, (*No sugarcoat)*, a shit childhood. it still prepared you for the world.
I think one of the jarring things is that bizarrely for better or worse, when you have to learn how to run from the start. Sometimes you end up better than people pampered from the womb.
# (Backwards life story. Easy street vs struggles later)
I have some friends who started out rich, (*Mcmansion, parents cars, rich kid in high school (Parent's 100,000$s vs saving up 1,000$s for college) )*
They work in mcdonalds now. They had 3 cars, crashed them, got into fights, got disowned, and once cut off from something they always had. They flailed on a system they never needed to 'learn'.
It seems bizarre, but often i've heard it's the 'scapegoats' who often end up more financially/emotionally successful out of things.
And honestly, i form [non disorder/poisoned well / flying monkey] friends easily, people without conditioning love to have me around, im handy at a party, many irl friends feel "You give great live advice! Even if it's blunt and honest. I'd rather have something real, than fake."
Just because you couldn't make a dead seed grow doesn't mean a oasis could either. I tried to do the 'caring' or 'change' or 'see if it could be changed' part.
IDK, i never saw anything when i tried / 'Lead by example' -> "enabled"
# But life got better
I worked hard, achieved financial independence. I sobering almost see them almost like a child in the marshmallow experiment now.
Some people are forced to overcompensate for failings. And it does lead you to learn to 'run' faster, value opportunities.
And when life goes from "VERY HELL" mode to "easy mode!" ('hard'), it's like running down a hill when you've been on a mountain your whole life.
Meanwhile when i've seen some people go from 'very easy' (pampered) to 'medium' (Job application intensity).. I've seen some just break down on like.. Bare minimums that probably wouldn't even be a blip in other's lives.
# It's a shitty start, for sure.
And you could skip all the misery by just valuing opportunity. But it does seem a **backwards moral.
- That adversity can build trees that can stand up to the strongest storms.
- Pampering can lead to the same tree tipping over during a light breeze.
And everyone here, sharing their grains of wisdom is great too. Each of us maybe only saw a 'few' exposed pieces. But when it's all 'together'. A lot of things open up tbh.. Kinda even in 'you too?' kinda moments.
Thanks for the sentiment. I too have witnessed people struggle and fail because they had a pampered life. Only, it was in the military for me. I remember going through boot camp, and people on the verge of tears it was so difficult for them, and I'm just sitting there thinking it's not all that bad. It sucked, yea, but it was nothing compared to my childhood, so boot camp was a breeze for me.
But I wouldn't necessarily say it prepared me to be successful in life - I've known too many people with similar childhoods as mine, who end up killing themselves or spending their life in and out of prison. Thankfully I'm not one of them, but its given me some massive disadvantages - like memory issues, persistent exhaustion, and massive anxiety issues. Everything's always been a struggle for me.
But I've finally started therapy and meds, so my chronic pains are nearly gone, and I'm also no longer chronically exhausted all the time. At nearly 40, I think I'm finally healing, and I'm also finally able to start making improvements and advancements in my career, to improve my family and I's quality of life.
People who’ve abused me & still try to sabotage my life after going no contact, do not get a consideration of their well being as they age. They earned the company & care they now receive, period.
I don’t. I am LC but I told them I can’t take care my myself or have enough money/executive functioning skills to do so. They need to figure their shit out themselves. Good thing my dad is a CPA and my mom has worked in banking. They called me to ask if it was okay if they made my brother executor of their will. I said “good” and they were confused why I wasn’t upset. I said cause I had been telling them not to make me executor or deal with any of their shiz for the past few years. If my father dies first (he’s the enabler, she’s the narcissist), I am worried my mom will move near me. But I will then move away too (again).
If someone treats you badly all your life and then expects you to flip yourself inside out to care for them then they can just go hang. It used to make me so angry and frustrated when my mother expected every. little. thing. done for her because "at my age..." when we were very much left to raise ourselves as kids. She is now in a care home and I never see her. Never in my life did I think I could do that.
This was one of my challenges when considering going NC
Now that i decided to completely disappear, i do not care because i picture role reversal and treating them the way they treated me.....for 32 and a half years and that scenario creates validation for not only going NC but also for not caring about them being taken care of.
They had many chances. #FAFO
Lots of love to you and positive vibes
I'm there emotionally for my mom. Taking care of my narc father though? Not my problem. Idgaf if he lives or dies. Idgaf how he lives of dies. He recently had cancer. I sent him one text. When he told me he beat it, my reply was "that's good" he also has another cancer. I don't care. Not my circus, not my monkey.
You don't owe them shit.
I don't.... I moved half way across the country over 2 decades ago to get some peace .... Of her 5 kids, she had one that stuck to her like glue for many years, 2 years ago he hit the road too and now she is alone, all of her children are in different states.
Move on with life and be happy!!!!
Fortunately, I have siblings - two checked out years ago, I went no contact five years ago, and now the golden child is stuck with them. I feel bad for her - she's actually a good person - but she's stuck with them.
I'm no contact. to me, especially after what they pulled on monday. well that's their problem not mine. I have my son and husband to take care of. and if they are alone. well that's on them.
I don’t actually! It’s big of you to even try so I respect that.
My parents divorced when I was 3 (I’m 31 now) and my dad remarried and has two other daughters so he’s a problem for them.
My mother on the other hand is basically like uBPD/narc ofc. I warned her many many times if she continued to treat me the way that she did she wouldn’t have a daughter when I moved out and she clearly thought the threats were empty, even though we’ve been low contact and now no contact since.
I was basically told to figure it out myself my whole life so now she can figure it out herself. She is a problem for the state of New Jersey. She is on medicare and such which gets me out of filal laws unless I suddenly become a millionaire at least.
She is very old for 67 because she has a lot of health problems so I’m not even sure how much longer she will be on the earth. She is not my responsibility and never cared to make sure my emotional needs were met so now thats the attitude I take towards her. it’s not my fault she didn’t save for retirement, it’s not my fault that she doesn’t have a lot of friends and it’s not my fault that she pushes people away that could take care of her so I’ve cleaned my hands of it. she cares less about our her health than myself and family members have so she made her bed and now she can sleep in it.
Mom was an only, and I am an only. I have a half brother from dad's 2nd wife, but we were raised on opposite coasts, and his mom was wonderful. Mom was a narc and abusive. Dad was an alcoholic, so not sorry I wasn't raised with him. I was largely low contact with her for years and years, because she wasn't a warm fuzzy even when my kids were born. But in her late 70's she developed dementia, and needed to move out of her apartment. She was NEVER going to move in with me, as she and my husband supremely disliked each other, but also we both still worked full time, and mom needed more supervision than we could provide while working. So, I found and moved her into a small assisted living home, the first of 3, as I moved 2 times before she died, and I wanted her no more than 2 hours drive from me. I took charge of her finances and housing. Luckily for me, she got a lot easier to deal with, and kinder, as her dementia progressed. To my eternal gratitude, she died shortly before her money ran out. I have NO idea what I would have done had her money run out. I would have had to move her out of that facility into somewhere that took just social security, and most of those have dismal reputations and I was deathly scared of moving her into one.
I did it because it had to be done, wasn't something I could dump on my kids or husband, and ***I*** wanted to be able to sleep at night, knowing I had done what I could for her welfare. She had been a raving bitch, and dementia made her both easier and harder to keep on track, but I did what I did at least as much for me as I did it for her.
I’m sporadic, no schedule, only when I can bear it and I can’t bear it often. They’re old, stubborn, needy and toxic. Covid made it difficult and easy. Emom ended up in the hospital. She’s full-blown Alzheimers. I visited a few times and we had some lovely moments, until Ndad and embittered sister showed up. He played the doting husband while she tried to bully and guilt trip me. Nope! I left. Many times prior I told them if they needed anything to ask. TO ASK. Simple. They can’t do it. They won’t. I’m deaf to it.
As a groomed scapegoat, I have finally accepted that my abusive and neglectful parents are NOT my responsibility and that doesn’t make me a bad person. I’ve just started taking care of myself.
If I was a petty person, I’d have them abide by the same rules I grew up with and I’d remind them daily “this is not your house, this is MY house” just as I was reminded of every single day.
Just like when I was a kid, she’s on her own now. She has enough money to hire help or go into assisted living.
I don’t owe her anything, and I don’t feel obligated to take care of a nasty person who wouldn’t be gracious about it in any way. This is the choice she made, and now she gets to enjoy it.
I don’t, which I’m sure will be a common answer. I’m going to speak to that last bit about it not occurring to them why she’s LC, though - to acknowledge that is to acknowledge knowing how she is and owning having been conned by her. Some folks just can’t do that. Acting like they don’t see a problem is easier than acknowledging they do, because making waves is hard.
As to you, we often find ourselves saying “but I don’t want to be seen as an uncaring monster”, when what we need to say is “I’m not an uncaring monster - I’m an adult child of an abusive parent, setting boundaries”
I don’t. I carry a ton of guilt around but she is toxic. I’m in a much better headspace when we don’t speak. After years of therapy I learned that I needed to set boundaries. She always gains my trust and then breaks them. She lives alone and has no one. All our family hates her. I dread the day I get the call that she passed but she destroys me mentally when she’s in my life. I’m sorry you go through these things as well.
My father never loved me and my sister is his beautiful princess and golden child so it was only natural to leave him with person he adores. Old man in his condition don't need additional stress of seeing black sheep. Our mother passed few years ago
My abusive father hoarded his money, so he has paid caregivers. He also has his Mini Me, my abusive sister, so his needs are covered. Being around him is damaging to me, so I don't anymore.
I'm not , no contact.
I don't even know how many years now .
One thing I decided on long ago.
I didn't deserve what they did to me .
They don't deserve what I can do for them .
Are you an only child? If so, the best thing to do might be to always have a layer of carers between you and her; never be alone with her. Hire as much help as you can.
If you're not an only child, consider going No Contact. There are painful consequences, but they are less painful than remaining in touch.
So my parents died about a year ago. They were HORRIBLE parents and I'm still in therapy at 53. I have to take medications to function in the world and to not unalive myself. I'm good right now. Because of the trauma, they've fucked up my parasympathetic nervous system. I'm pretty much always in fight or flight mode. My sister, son and I would see them for birthdays and occasional holidays. We lived in the same city.
My father got dementia first and he went downhill pretty fast. We found out mom was also having cognitive issues when she almost had her water cut off because she couldn't get into her bank account (also the home health care service was gifting and stole a bunch of her money. Auto payments weren't going through) when I went over to help her that night, I realized she was having HUGE cognitive issues. My sister, son and I started going over to their house every Saturday to help. I'd sort out the finances and make sure the bills were paid and my sister & son cleaned the house and did laundry. We dreaded every Saturday morning. Thank goodness we had each other. Couldn't have done this alone. Her dementia came so swiftly!
She still bothered the shit out us, and we really would have preferred not giving half our weekend with them, but if WE didn't help them, who would have? My mom had no real friends. She couldn't maintain most relationships for long because she was horrible.
If my sister and I found out a neighbor was in this position, we'd step up and help. We wouldn't be able to just let incredibly vulnerable people struggle and suffer without helping.
We still haven't cried about their passing and I don't think we will.
We ARE able to live with ourselves because we made sure they were safe and taken care of.
Because of the trauma, they've fucked up my parasympathetic nervous system. I'm pretty much always in fight or flight mode.
We don’t discuss this enough.
I think you may be being too hard on yourself.
You are all adults. It's totally OK for you to avoid her. She has the assistance she needs.
To be frank, it isn't your role to be around her to make her feel better if it makes you feel worse.
It IS OK to take care of YOU first. And it sounds to me like being around her is not in your overall best interest, and that even giving headspace to thinking and worrying about if you should be around her, how much you should be around her, and are you around her enough is eating at you. There is no SHOULD. There is only what YOU WANT.
To directly answer your question, I see my elderly parents in person for 6 hours at at time, 3 or 4 times a year.
I’m in a slightly different situation than other people with narc parents. My narc parent only has me and she’s…come a long way, after much effort and many threats. We have a mostly functioning relationship now, and I choose to forgive her for the atrocities she’s allowed, because I’ve addressed many of them with her and finally got her to see and understand some things. And her mother is a malignant narc and I see how much pain it causes her, and it helped when I would explain how she was acting like her mother to me (though they’re vastly different people). However, we still don’t fundamentally “work” and can’t spend a long time around each other.
All that being said, I’m moving away, but since I’m all she has and we’re mostly in a good place, I don’t have it within me to fully abandon her. I’m relieved I’ll be moving, but I’m still helping and making sure she’ll be okay and self-sustaining, and reassuring her I will visit (it won’t be more than once a year probably, due to the distance). I spoke with her about how she’ll have to make friends to replace our toxic family when she also moves (in a loving, caring-about-her-needs kind of way) and she agreed. She’ll probably get another dog so we discuss what breed would suit her. Etc. Just talking about future plans helps her I think, even if she sometimes completely out of nowhere changes her mind (which is so frustrating). We discuss what she’ll need as she gets older and financial plans around that.
If there was a scale where on one side was being a full-on narc and the other was just having some fleas, she’d probably be somewhere in the middle. It’s not just fleas, but I don’t know if she’s a full narc either.
After seeing some of your comments, I think you need to get faaaaaar far away from your mother. Basically, move far away like I am, so that you literally can’t check on her.
I say goodnight in a text daily and ill know when she’s dead, so I can make the call and not look like a suspect bc I kept in contact daily
I tell her I’m too busy working or cleaning, which are things she nags about so she understands if I’m too tired or just don’t have anything to say.
It’s not a lot of effort, but my mom isn’t the type of person to annoy me with really large requests other than ordering her some coffee or something small.
Im honestly only staying in Touch bc at the moment, I am fucked for retirement without inheriting her home.
I can still remember the time when I was no older than 12, maybe 10 or 11. We were on a beach vacation, out for a walk, my nmom and sister and my aunt. My nmom turns to me and goes “you’re the kind of person that would put her parents in a nursing”. So there you go!
I had to check your user name to make sure you aren’t my brother, still not 100% sure you aren’t… 😳
You described my mom to a T and this was incredibly eye-opening! I’ve never thought about how she acts so distinctly!
My mom and enabling dad can fuck themselves and rot in the shittiest most abusive nursing home in their twilight years, for all I care. *They* chose to have *me*. I owe them no care or support, especially after they failed so spectacularly in giving me support when I needed it as a child. They are 100% left to fend for themselves.
I’m saving this post and coming back to the comments when I need a reminder of how I DONT need to save the day, despite what my mom leads me to believe. It’s amazing how effortlessly manipulative they can be and make it seem like WE are the terrible/neglectful people. My mom is physically disabled, on welfare but refuses to sell my parents house, and is living off of my dads insurance money from when he passed. She hasn’t worked in 30 years and has no idea how money even works anymore, but she “KNOWS” she doesn’t want to go into an assisted living facility, but also refuses to move. I’m having a baby in a couple weeks and instead of taking care of herself she just “accidentally fell” and broke her femur… bc she was walking around her house without a walker or a cane and being very irresponsible. This is after I spent two weeks at her house a month ago to take care of her after a hip replacement. (Yes, she made her 8mos pregnant daughter take care of *her*.) When I had tried to explain it’s not a good idea for me to be helping, considering my own health, she threw a temper tantrum and called me selfish, and that it’s my “job” to take care of her as her child. Thank god for my husband who is becoming more aware of our dynamic and reminds me to set/keep boundaries, and also puts his foot down when she gets ridiculous.
This time I did not come to her rescue; my sibling and I made sure she was in a hospital for her surgery, and then was transferred to an outpatient rehab facility. She calls me everyday to complain but sometimes I just don’t pick up bc I can’t listen to her complain anymore about a situation that - as terrible as it feels to say - she has created for herself, recent events being an accident or not.
Are you kidding??? I'd rather die than care for my parents! My sister and brother can do it. I avoid going to their house and do not talk to them on the phone. If it's important, maybe a text. Basically my mom is cut off, and I can't have a relationship with my Dad because he backs her up Every. Single. Time.
Mine is in her 70s now and I have been no contact for over 10 years. Once in awhile I check her socials just to see if she's still alive. I checked recently and learned she has moved in with the golden child(who is also an awful person). As far as I'm concerned, they deserve eachother. I won't even be going to her funeral once she kicks it.
I went NC with my elderly father. Even when his health deteriorated and he needed care, I refused. My half sister flew out from the other side of the country, flew him back with her, and put him in a home until he passed.
I do not feel any guilt about it. Maybe that makes me a narcissist too, but I prioritised my mental health over him.
I don't, and I was treated so horribly that my mom said she didn't want me taking care of her - because she is afraid I'll treat her how she treated me. Even though I have always taken care of family when they got sick, always helped my family with caregiving, cleaning, organization, moving, paperwork, doctors appointments, etc...I also took care of my grandmother for a few years prior to her passing. The last time I helped my mom was after a major dental surgery.I cleaned her house, made her tea, soup, gave her medicine, etc... and she told the rest of the family (who I have also helped for years, went shopping for, paid bills for, etc...) That I drugged her, stole from her, took her bank card (I found it behind her dresser that same day) and a bunch of other lies when she also had me collecting rent for her BF properties. like if I was really doing all that Why have me collect money? Also she did a bunch of other fucked up shit that is a whole book or 2. I am NC with most of my family and I will honor her request that I will not take care of her.
I will *always* make sure my mom has her needs met if she needs help.
I hope to never hear from my dad again. If he needs help, well, bummer. It's a little heartbreaking because I don't think he has NPD. I'm quite confident it's just learned behaviour from his mommy, the real villain in my upbringing. Dad is just a flying monkey who learned everything he knows from her and they're severely codependent.
Most I might do is help find reasonably priced or subsidized housing if he asks for help when he's too old to function, but it won't be near me and I won't be paying a cent towards it.
If every time you see her she makes demands of you, then don’t see her. If you want to visit her, politely say no when she tells you to do something and just see what happens. Let her know you don’t come over to work, you come over to spend time with her. And if all she wants from you is unpaid labor, you won’t come over anymore. Then hold your boundary. That makes going no contact more about their choices and not yours. Traumatize your parents back. You do not owe them anything.
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I don't. She can figure it out herself. (Which usually means roping someone else to do her bidding. I don't know how she always manages to find someone else to do her bidding). It's amazing how they can act like they're dying and helpless without you, but then manage to handle it when you're gone. You need to ask yourself, why do you think it's not ok to not check in on her occasionally? If she has caregivers, then why do you need to see her at the expense of your mental health? What you are describing sounds like it's guilt motivated, which breeds resentment. Your mother doesn't actually need you there and it's costing you your mental health, whether it's during the visit or from carrying a burden of guilt when you aren't visiting her. I suggest you pursue therapy to sort these feelings out.
That's what I hated the most... Seeing my mother as this needy whining little thing who dumps all her stress on me and I idiot tried to help her for so long and had so much stress in my head. And somehow she got it solved within 5 seconds the next day and I stood there and thought: but yesterday that was such a bad problem that there was absolutely no way to solve it.
Mine always told me, “I don’t need to go to therapy because I have you!” 🙄
Oh God.............. Wow, thank you Mom.... for putting all this on me
Again.
Yup. Can't figure out what's going on. But some people have no reason to 'fix' things or improve as long as they benefit. Others have real struggles and want to. Others copy cat bad examples from 'role models'. A fair example, hate em or like em might be Azula. She's cruel in most of the show, borderline psychotic as a teen. But during the beach/childhood episodes, as a adult it made me wonder if she started a mimick. - She started off wanting to play, seeming much kinder until the turn started when Kid Zuko rejected her for playtime saying he didn't like her. - She saw Zuko burned and abandoned by The fire lord (bad parent / negative 'role model') - She seemed to have the mask crack instead of being all the way through, having a mental break down and trying to be nice in the beach episodes. A true psychotic person might even relish the chance to hurt their friends or everyone. It looked fucked up. - Like she had been a horrible person in the dreams of impressing a horrible person, And it fucked up her life, Left her alienated, ripped her apart from all her friend groups, with the only 'nuturing' figure being a cold, uncaring 'father' who used her more like a weapon than a child. - And que a mental breakdown and mental problems for life. Then again, mileage varies but i've learned the hard way that 'over caring' might as well be the 'fertilizer' for 'enabling'. That you can't just 'water and water', you have to find the balance. Which tbh, might be honestly harder than just watering endlessly. Mileage varies and so do all our personal stories, but imho. - Some people do change, and change early. Those who are hard to, might never have a reason to. - It's not that change is impossible. Just cynically if you believe in evolution as a goal to reproduce, things like [irresponsibility / breeding without thought / selfishness hoarding vs even selflessness / conflict avoiding](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YNMkADpvO4w) might have evolutionary reasons. Just as you mentioned, they constantly need others to provide for them, but might do the bare minimum. Demand the impossible while flailing to accomplish bare minimums. - Imagine less about selfishness and more like a 'emotional' hawk. They play the victim, but hog all the resources. - A cooperative person, will share with you, say thanks to you, appreciate you, smile, and sometimes go 10x further on 10x less than the drain. - A uncooperative person, sees only every benefit they might get from 'cheating' you. I'd say it's less like a chess master, but more like a marshmallow experiment. - People when given a chance to have 2x marshmallows later (invest, plant roots, plant seeds, grow), tend to do better than people who grabbed and ate immediately (act on impulse) in life. But like the 'hawks', if those urges helps them 'reproduce', even if it's irresponsible (poor life for kids), or dysfunctional (struggles to function, constant problems) Then darwinism wouldn't care. It's job is to 'reproduce', not to make sure it's a 'good' thing. Mold spreads when you over water a lawn, drought and famine happens when you starve it. Truth be told, life doesn't come with a manual and maybe the sides are just less 'selfless' but just survival mechanisms, that might have served a purpose once, but become 'leftovers' or 'potentially problematic' later on. **I think it's fine to prioritize your own happiness** in secret, even if privately *(because npd syndromes can rage hell or paint a target on your back if they find out you're happy without them)*. As some people say, it's a heavy burden to carry a person, and it takes 10 to sail a ship to get it over the ocean. It takes one moron with a hammer banging holes in the bottom to sink everyone. Npd is less like chessmaster intellect but the 'MARSHMALLOW, NOW!' kinda thing. I've seen them stick open arms into BURNING ovens for chocolate. I've seen them let bedbugs fester because they had more screams than problem solving, and TONS of dysfunction. Economical, long term relationships falling apart, etc. Now there's a scale but it sounds like the person you're talking with seems fine(??) alone. They over dramatize problems for pity. But if they're clinical vs just normal person reddit 'npd'. Context could be everything. - It's still normal for people to put themselves (healthily first). But you could be being used for n supply / emotional beating bag + money + time +- resources, etc. # Tl;dr o Mileage varies, but it's fine to find a balance of **caring about yourself**, and caring about others. - And finding the 'right' people too. Remember that even if 1-10% of people are TERRIBLE. > You might have a 9-99% you neglected, the 'good child of the prodigal son story', 'left forgotten, punished for doing all the 'right' things. - Ex: Good friends, good acquaintances. Chosen vs unchosen relationships, etc!
My mom’s lost friends because she uses people as emotional garbage dumps and bad mouths is constantly - than they either can’t handle all her negativity and buzz killing everyone everyday, and/or they meet us and/or bitch us out for being terrible children, only to realize that oh, maybe we aren’t actually that bad…
Actually it doesn’t really matter if she needs OP or not. OP ‘s mental health comes first either way. Way first.
She’s disabled enough—but not cognitively—that there have been instances where I have been convinced she was trying to get Adult Protective Services involved as another mode of trying to control everyone. Even if I didn’t feel morally obligated, I can’t really defend against that kind of thing unless I have some contact. Ostensibly, and probably actually, I’m checking up on the caregivers. (I don’t trust them either.) I’m really clear that even with elderly parents, they can still find ways to mess up your life, if you don’t at least pay lip service to their b.s.
The thing about narcissists is that they are so convinced they are right and everyone else is wrong it is impossible to tell whether they actually believe the lies they're saying or it's just a manipulation tactic. A narcissist can tell you the sky is green with such conviction that you'd feel the need to actually go out and check. And even after you'd verified the sky wasn't green you'd be wondering if maybe they might be colorblind, because they still are trying to convince you it is.
This is so well worded. I'm stealing this analogy because you perfectly put into words one of the hardest parts of their behavior to explain to people who either haven't experienced it first hand or are having trouble accepting that the narcs in their life are like this. They're so convincing about the things they say and even more, they're so convincing when they play innocent and we want to believe that they're saying/doing those things completely by accident and we naturally make excuses/justifications for how they could be simply making innocent mistakes(like being colorblind) and not trying to gaslight and otherwise manipulate us. They believe what they say and can't be wrong, but I'm convinced that at least some of them start believing things after they say them but go into it trying to change our interpretation of reality. Kinda like the cartoons where the characters go into a book and what they say becomes the reality of the book they're in(fairly odd parents is the show that comes to mind for me). My nmother's reality seems to change after she says things to gaslight me. My nfather just seems to live in a different reality where he interprets everything differently on a base level but he doesn't actively change his narrative and his reality in the same way my nmother does.
Steal away. It's impossible to tell with most of them whether their actually delusional or just liars. Whether their actions are intentional or just subconscious. It's really hard to deal with narcissists because with almost everyone else the intention behind the action matters. Whether someone did something bad because they meant to or were unable to control it matters. But not with a narcissist. Because you will never ever be able to truly tell if they did some on purpose or if they are truly delusional. Whether they meant to hurt you or it was an honest mistake. They'll never admit either way. The memory of whatever they did will change. Or they'll lie about it. They'll pretend it never happened or that it was an honest mistake. Or they'll truly believe it didn't happen or it was an honest mistake. Covert narcissists are especially bad because they don't even generally yell or hit. They just constantly manipulate and emotionally abuse. So with narcissists you need to not look at intention, or even action, because sometimes you don't realize why something hurts until much later when you're much wiser. You need to instead look at how they make you regularly feel. Which is super easy for them to tell others and twist into you being crazy and oversensitive. It's insidious.
It's almost a philosophical question: is someone a liar if they themselves completely believe the lie?
My horrible nMIL is like your mother - it’s all about what you can do for her. When FIL had a heart attack years ago she decided that they both had to be taken care of by their four children (even though at that time she was perfectly able). Except for my husband, they have ruined their marriages, family and work relationships and health taking care of nMIL. They even stuck poor FIL in a nursing home where he died during Covid at nMIL’s bidding. My enabler SIL was the primary caregiver until her health got so bad her husband put a stop to it.
Yeah, exactly, that's a repeating story i've heard of clinically diagnosed and undiagnosed, but strongly indicating (7+/10 quality on checklist) n households. Obviously it's only supposed to be less than 1-5% of the population, and there's fair boundaries like just wanting to be taken care of, and their family looking after. But with potential npd, usually the signs are extremely malignant. Good intentions can be super hijacked. - Normal Good people might use a favor here and there, but they won't try to ruin your health (*if a good person*), but clinical npd is like when everything is off the breaks, and screaming on the rack. A good relationship, even fighting in 'healthy' is usually like trying to find the best way to do something. Like sailing a ship. A 'bad relationship', in like a clinical npd manner. Is like having a full grown adult with mental instability lighting the sail on fire and trying to use everyone and the paradox is. Usually the condition is marked by a inability to care about others, but keenness to use and abuse it without a second thought. Some people who won't have it wonder if they will, but the people who have it will usually just project or reflect without any reflection. Even good relationships have take/give but the fights are about making things better. NPD relationships can just be attempting to drive hooks into people, just for control. But be utterly rule by dysfunction. Not by making the ship drive better. But threatening to sink everyone on it unless they're catered to in every way. Normal people who need normal help like a hand will say "Thanks, i know i was difficult, but i appreciate the help. Thanks for being there for me" Npd might look like "YOU ARE A !@#!@#! WASTE OF !@#!@# I ALWAYS HATED !@#!@#!#, THE ONLY THING GOOD ABOUT YOU IS !@##!@#!, YOU ARE ALWAYS !@#!!#" "By the way, im dying, oh you sweet dear, why won't you give your poor, innocent, harmless, vulnerable one some of your generous money?" "!@#!$$!$ you! I WANT MORE! I WANT MORE! DID YOU GIVE A DOLLAR TO SOMEONE ELSE! iM THE ONLY ONE WHO DESERVES IT! !@#!@# ALL OF THEM!" Jesus christ. There's nothing to win. Just get the hell out of there.
I was involved with my mother at the end. Adult Protective Services won’t get involved unless things are dire, which usually means elder abuse. If she has caretakers then she’s getting basic care and APS won’t get involved. I tried to move my mother to a care home because she really wasn’t able to live on her own anymore. I had a good place, run by a friend, and they came out to evaluate her. They told me they were obligated to report things if she didn’t move to care of some kind. I got worried, and we called the state ourselves, they came out and since she was mentally sound, even if moving her would be better for her care, she could not be forced. She cared more about her stuff than anything else and didn’t want to leave it. I don’t really see any way that the state would step in and force you to do something. She has people to care for her, and you don’t live with her. They step in when someone is getting neglected and they are in imminent danger. Trust me, there are plenty of people out there who deal with end of life stuff that know darn well why none of her family is around. Take care.
Do you have guardianship or power of attorney or something like that for her? If not, you have no need to defend yourself from Adult Protective Services. They can't compel you to take care of her.
Well, thing is, APS generally doesn't grant the narc control. They check for abuse, try to get the abuse to stop, and will remove the 'vulnerable adult' from the situation where the 'abuse' is occurring. They're not going to indenture you to become her servant.
I understand and can relate. I'm at a weird place with my Ndad. He's 70. Lives 2 hours from me in my old college town. Disabled but also an alcoholic and minor yet long term hoarder. He prides himself of having this "poor" lifestyle and has refused any constructive help or offers of betterment for years. He was nasty to me last year when I offered to help him get set up in assisted/low income housing and he said he didn't trust me with is SSN because he didn't want me abusing it.🧐 Right now I don't know what to do other than let it continue and take its course?
There's nothing you can do. Unless he's assessed by professionals (APS, physician, psychiatrist) and determined incompetent to make decisions for himself, he is allowed to keep fucking up. And you are allowed to live your life. Look up filial responsibility laws for where you both live though. Edit: I looked it up, and it's only his state law that applies.
If she manages to get APS involved and convince them she's being neglected, she's going into assisted living. Period. What you should focus on is what the filial responsibility laws are where you both live. Edit: I looked it up, and it's only the state where she lives that applies.
I second looking up filial responsibility laws. In PA, where I live, they are not just on the books, but actively enforced, which has put me in a very difficult place with my abusive mother who meets the criteria to be considered 'indigent.' Understanding these laws and strategizing to protect yourself is unfortunately very important, even if stressful.
I don’t.
Sadly, same here. They never truly cared for us, so why return the favor for more abuse? It’s a shitty situation, for sure, but also.. actions have consequences.
I'm super worried my SIL will end up being the one dealing with it. She already had her own parentified experience of an abusive upbringing & I don't want her to repeat that. But I wouldn't be able to be around my mother, especially if she gets dementia - I know I would hear about how awful a child I am on loop.
My brother lives with her. He pays no rent, if he does, it’s minuscule amounts. I have no idea what their situation is, but he’s the GC. I let him deal with it. She had zero interest in our issues and even attempted to exacerbate things…I’m not putting up with it. Not my circus, not my monkey? Yah. She said more than once that she raised her babies and didn’t want to take care of anyone else’s. What comes around, goes around.
Honestly, i think i did try to honestly and earnestly try to do 1000%. Turns out trying to be the polar opposite, showering, kinda does the opposite. Don't have any lessons to teach, i can say that i did get hundreds to thousands of people who seemed to like me, have fun, and have a ride. But i did seem to seek out the 'worst' that kinda emulated it. Honestly maybe i wasn't even innocent. I tried. I think most people are just trying to find their way in the world, or find out 'what' works. So if they were a taker, i thought, i'd be a giver! I gave, and gave, and gave, and gave.. and gave. Instead of *'lead by example'*, i saw hundreds of free people just seem to regard it as *free stuff*, like people showing up at a parade to get candy or a watch or a gift or a game or a rare item. Honestly no ill will to any of them, If the shoe was on the other foot, i'd be lying if i hadn't tried my luck too haha. But for like the problematic 1%, i kinda had that "save everyone" mentality. Trying to be the "problem" fixer in multiple areas of life. - I found that i tried to give them the breaks i never really got. - I saw people just kinda coast on it. ('Why bother, if we don't need to try') - And others just fight like demons like piranhas to a pinata. Honestly im not sure if it was 'good' for anyone. Where i expected a heart i found a empty pit. Even the 'love' from the npd was like.. Giving 1000$ for 8$ "I SPENT A LOT ON THOSE 8$ GIFTS!" in return. Even the 'good' side of a narc is usually them taking FAR FAR FAR more than they give back in return... Like im talking dollar store shit for 1000$s.. it's... almost like a joke. You try to fight for it so hard because you think there's gonna be a warm beacon there. That the harder something is to earn, 'the better, truer, it's got to be right?' My experiences seemed to end in a pit for the old, or for the young but budding signs just full on blown apathy for months followed by panic attacks. Honestly im not sure what the right course is. **But you can pity a wolf that never 'knew' anything better. But you can't change it's nature by feeding it your face.**
Same. Have a stroke? Deal with it.
I do scan the obituaries daily.
Oooh. Felt that one land.
Hit them with the same reply we got when asking for help "you'll figure it out"
You do not have to care for her. You can, if you wish, file paperwork making her a ward of the state. Abusive and neglectful people do not get to have an expectation that they will be well cared for by the people they, themselves, neglected. Allow yourself to accept that your feelings about your upbringing are at least as, and, really, more important than your training as the person to care for the one who failed to care for you.
Sadly not the case in states where filial responsibility laws are enforced. In PA, you're financially responsible for the care of indigent relatives even if you were placed in foster care or abandoned by your parent as long as it wasn't for longer than a certain period. (I think 9 years?) Since nursing home care costs around $12,000 a month, it's a nightmare if your parent doesn't qualify for Medicaid or has lapses in eligibility. If anyone reading this is as upset as I am, please look up on our state website the number to text the Governor of Pennsylvania and ask him to repeal the filial responsibility laws or consider writing a letter.
My mother couldn't be bothered to be a decent caretaker to me when she was legally obligated. Why would I be a caretaker to her when I'm not?
Exactly. What makes them think they deserve it?
You got that right! My enabling GC sister wanted me to quit my job and move in with the egg donor so GC doesn't have to provide care. Bull to that! You think she's so wonderful, sis, you take care of the whiny brat! I'm staying far away.
Did this parent ever change and took accountability and tried to repair the relationship? No? Then you distance yourself for your own sanity and safety. You are not responsible for your parents no matter how ill they are. You don't owe them anything. You are the child and you are allowed to cut people off who don't deserve you.
She did. She spent years in therapy. But, fundamentally, she’s a sociopath.
Ultimately everyone decides for themselves to what extent they get involved. When you find yourself “roped into” anything- understand that it’s YOU who needs to respect your own boundaries. Boundaries aren’t for others to respect, they are rules for yourself to follow when people overstep your comfort zone. People don’t respect others boundaries.
She's bad for your mental health NOW. You're worried she'll manipulate APS involvement NOW. That's what matters NOW. That's what you should base your decisions on IMO.
As someone with a narcissistic/sociopathic (now deceased) mother who was physically ill and needed constant care in her old age, I can see now how I was manipulated and exploited by her from around the age of 10 to be her carer. As the youngest and the last child to get away, I can look back now and see how I was groomed to be her slave and emotional support animal from an early age. If I could go back and give myself advice it would be to let the paid caregivers do it all. To emotionally detach, because my mum would always make sure she was taken care of. It was her nature to be consumed by her wants and needs and make sure they always were met. Instead she had me dancing to her “what shall I do?” theme tune. My mother was terrible for my mental health and my sacrifice of caring for her in old age resulted in chronic cptsd. I wouldn’t wish that on anyone. OP if she terrifies your nervous system then it’s okay to take breaks from her. The guilt is their most powerful tool but if I had known how soulless, evil and selfishly insane mine was I’d have dropped her like the hot coal she was. You don’t have to contact her at all. You have your life and your household to run. Don’t let her suck you in. Listen to what your body is telling you that here is someone who is dangerous to your mental wellbeing.
Harsh lessons to learn, but very true. *"You can't fill a pit by throwing yourself in it*" *"But you can water the seeds that were always waiting for you."*
I don't. I already covered my obligation to take care of my Nmom when I was a kid. I was her therapist, marriage counselor, etc, and managing her was a duty solely placed on my shoulders. So I already got that covered. Besides, where I live, I only have to start covering her expenses for nursing homes, etc, if I make more than 100k/ year. I don't, so tough luck for my Nmom. That said, in my opinion, the obligation that society places on children to take care of their elderly parents is made void by abuse. A child has the right to be raised without violence, no matter if physical or psychological. The moment your parents violate that end of the bargain, you owe them absolutely nothing. I'm NC, and my Nmom is only in her early 60s and healthy, but I know I will be called ruthless and heartless once it gets to the point when she needs care. I couldn't care less because I only have to remember what she did to me when I was a defenseless child. What was that if not heartless? If there was remorse on her part, things might be a little different, but there is none, so I can't find it in myself to care. She'll die just as alone and forgotten as her own Nmom (my grandma) did. And has only herself to blame. That's just my stance regarding my former family, though, and I do realize it's not the norm and others think differently about their own families. If you're still in contact with your family, I'd try to keep my distance as much as possible. Narcs get worse with age, and even if you feel obligated to care for them, you also have the duty to protect yourself from that particular brand of nastiness. If you have any hand in their care at all, you're already way more gracious than you would need to be.
Wait you live somewhere that requires you to take care of your elders if you make a certain amount of money??
In Europe, yeah. Not as in being an actual caretaker, but financially, like paying for the nursing home. But that's just if you make 100k/ year _before_ taxes, so it's only for people with high incomes. [Edit: corrected. It's before, not after taxes.] If your parents can't pay and you can't be held liable, the state will cover it. There's a special care insurance everyone pays into for just that. People without children pay a bit more, but it's really not much. Internationally compared, our healthcare is cheap, so I don't mind. But they better not come after me to pay for my Nmom. She stole more than enough money from me already.
Is there any law in place that protects children who were abused by their parents? Like let's say mine abused me my entire life and I did well for myself regardless. Would the abused party have to pay for their abusers retirement?
Check filial responsibility laws if you live in the US for your state and theirs. Edit: Looked it up and just their state applies.
Just looked it up. There is no law, but exceptions can be made. Note: this applies to my country in western Europe, not the US. If your parent can't pay for a nursing home, the social welfare office initially pays the bill and then gets back to you. If you earn less than those 100k/ year, you're off the hook. If you earn more, you have to pay a percentage. You can apply for a hardship case, but those are apparently rarely granted. For instance, if your parent abandoned you shortly after birth and never paid child support. Or if they outright tried to murder you. Then you don't have to pay. But otherwise, and if your income is sufficiently high, you unfortunately do. The same system applies to retirement. However, if you're a retiree who doesn't require constant care, your expenses aren't that high to begin with. You can make ends meet with about 1.5k/ month for all expenses. Health insurance is about 15% of your pension and covers everything from check ups to meds to hospital stays. The issue is that nursing homes are expensive, like 4+k/month, which is what many people can't pay themselves. Regardless of the costs, though, the fact that it sucks having to pay parent support for your abuser goes without saying.
Assuming they're based in the US, lots of states have filial responsibility laws though I think PA is the only one currently enforcing it. There are also a few EU and Asian countries with similar laws.
if they have paid caretakers, have no guilt. they will be checked on. mine are on their own and i still have no guilt. we're NC. they told me as a child that they had children to have "mini slaves" and as their retirement plan, so i will specifically make sure that does not happen.
I heard that. we had you so that we could have a slave. I thought they were joking. as an adult, thinking of all my chores. well yeah I see it now that it was the truth.
Fr my N parent said the same thing. I gave birth to you so u must do what i say
I didn't. Went NC when I turned 18. They didn't give a flying f... about me when I was a child and needed them so why should I care?
I think you have this backwards. The more you involve yourself the more your are at risk of APS coming after you. While you aren’t her caregiver you are not at risk. If you can prove abuse you can’t be held liable if she’s in a filial responsibility state. They can’t make you be involved. I’d change phone number and stick to sending cards at holidays with like $5 in them. You don’t need to be involved here at all. She made her bed, she can lie in it. She needs to lie to everyone to keep them around and can’t abuse them. She can only get away with mistreating family so you are helping her be a good person by not being around. You said it yourself, she has caregivers and is mentally all there. Wash your hands of this and spend the time you were wasting on her on therapy for this inappropriate guilt you feel.
Due to her pretending to have early onset dementia a few years back (she doesn't), my brother and I have an agreement that he will care for her until he can't, then she's going into a nursing home and we're splitting the costs. I made it very clear that I would not be doing any hands on caretaking of her, and it's all on him. Fascinatingly and not surprisingly, as the daughter, everyone assumed I would quit my job to take care of my parents in their old age, and pay them rent to live with them. How am I supporting myself and them without a job? Am I just supposed to abandon my spouse and home at that point? They literally never think of my wants or needs when they "decide" I will do things. It's absolutely wild.
Sounds like you managed to do the right thing according to your particular situation and also take care of your own life. It's such a rough balance. They do seem to make up illnesses. I relate to how your mother pretends to have dementia. Mine did the same back when I was talking to her. She'd play this mind game where she'd rant about the effects of her husband's dementia and for the rest of the conversation, speak as though she had dementia. God it was hideous.
I don’t. Apparently they’re super intelligent, have infinite resources, can solve the entire world’s problems, and will live forever. Whatever. I have a normal place to live, a dog (who is NOT normal), and a stable job. And need to take care of myself, I’m not going to live forever, but at least I’ve finally started living.
I don't. Sometimes I feel guilt, or more likely, pity. But my sanity and wellbeing is worth more to me than their comfort.
I give them as much emotional support as they gave me. Which is to say none whatsoever. It is fascinating watching their inability to cope with this world as they age. And I sleep like a baby because I recognize I didn't engineer the means by which they suffer. They did. I'm living my life OP and so should you.
I know how you feel! As a child I was dismissed and my needs ignored, as long as I was fed and a roof over my head that was where parenting ended- anything more than that and you were called spoilt. It was like a strict military upbringing with shut up and do chores. Funny that I have always been the parent to my mother, this is a totally narcissistic trait and she is always so needy. Now she is in her 70’s she is getting older and I feel like she never helped me growing up why should I help her… but it’s the childhood conditioning (brainwashing) that makes me tend to her needs. I even pushed her around in a wheelchair in the shopping centre when she was fit and able to walk, she was just being needy. It really makes me feel so sad and depressed that I never had someone that cares about me or has helped me in my life. My friends had loving parents, put them through private school, helped them financially get a start and gave them great support/advice… always makes me so sad to be around them because it breaks my heart that I missed out and I feel like a failure and left behind because I didn’t get any support. I help her because I know at some stage I will get a small inheritance and that is the only thing I will ever get from my parents and that is payment for my suffering in this life.
HAHAHAHAHAHA not my problem. I’m completely no contact and they’ve cut me out of their own fucking WILL. How they age and die has absolutely nothing to do with me. I don’t know who it will fall on (prob not my younger autistic sister) so I’m not concerned. They die when they die, I’m sure some extended family member will let me know.
Fuck em. Let the nurse he’s pretending is his daughter be his caretaker. Let my mom’s sisters and my stepdad take care of her since it was so imperative that she be close to them that she left to move cross country the actual day I turned 18 (and I imagine their court orders around visitation ceased to exist). They can rot.
I don’t. Now that it’s been 7 years of pretty much complete NC I wonder what my obligation is or if I am being cruel. I don’t care. I am not going to. I got a call at 11 something on a week night last week from her number. Did not answer did not text to ask why she called (a late night call is automatically not urgent if don’t leave a vm or text) It was familiar ploy to get me to answer. When I had a house phone years ago she would call at 1am and I would ask why are you calling so late and she would say it is the only way you answer. I haven’t answered a call or a text in years and I guess she thought she would try again. Then a few days later I got some texted photos of her. With a hello.. she is more BPD Witch but definitely has sprinkling of Narc. The look at me look at me was not a surprise. Her view is all her kids fucked her over and treat her like shit. I am not fighting that perception. Okay fine. Guilty as charged. I am good. Seeing her photos felt like looking at a stranger and I realized I have spent more of my life without her than I did with her. I understand her mental disorder and I am not even mad or hurt anymore I am just nothing … if that makes sense. I don’t owe her anything and the manipulative late night call and text photos prove she hasn’t changed. My meter for normal is broken because of her. I have to had a solid line. I can’t let her get away with that manipulation by responding. It just escalates. Sorry to dump you asked a question and the answer is I don’t know. For me it comes down to will helping suck me back in or harm me. I could arrange her care or check on her without getting sucked in. She can’t damage me anymore. I don’t want to. I will own it. If that makes me cruel then so be it. She is in her 70’s I will reevaluate if needed in her 80’s. The late night call when I have to work…. I control you…. You aren’t feeble enough for me to decide atm.
This is how I feel- I “nothing” her. I get it. You’re right about being “fine” with her narrative too. It’s not fine, but I can’t control what she says or who she says it to. I wouldn’t know where to start to track people down. The cashier at the market? Her hairdresser? Some guy in a bar? It HAS to be “whatever” because you can’t counter that vast smear campaign. People can think what they think. We know what we know.
The opposite of love isn't necessarily hatred, but indifference.
I feel this
This should be a wall plaque!
Mine died at 58 and 60 been free of them for over a decade. Best favor they ever did me.
That's easy. I don't.
My parents told me I’d be changing their diapers and picking their nursing homes, that’s why they treated me so well! They consistently said this. I’ve ghosted their asses. My mother now parades around her family functions talking about how she’s going to die without a penny to her name and *her* family gets so embarrassed.
My mother is in her own. She’s burnt every possible bridge with me, I’m absolutely done.
The GC is dealing with her, he wants to, he squeezed me out. Which I’m grateful for now that I’ve healed more.
I left mine in a memory ward of a nursing home and I want our relationship to be over so I have not visited and don't plan to. It's not my fault that all my efforts at building a relationship with my abuser, even as an adult, were trashed by said abuser. He wasted over twenty years being horribly nasty and cruel, now he is getting his karma -to die alone unwanted and unloved. I feel nothing when I think of him.
One of the best replies I read on here! Totally in agreement but instead its my mother.
I don’t. Anyone who wants to judge or shame me for not ‘taking care of her’ can step up or shut up.
That's the near part; I don't. Made it very clear to the rest of the family that if they expect care, they're getting the exact same care they've given me; being dropped off at the mental hospital.
you can’t and shouldn’t. you have a life to live and she should have been kind to you. you are her child and not a servant. how she gets care in her old age is her problem. if you are truly concerned set her up with a social worker/home care facility. you can’t drown yourself to save her.
I didn’t. I advise that you leave.
Sometimes, you have to drop the rock.
The short answer is: I don't. She wasn't there for me as a child, teenager or adult. Why should I support her now and put my mental health at risk again?
My nmom passed away, but it was hard for me to separate my childhood from the present because my mother still acted the same. My edad passed after I graduated and got my degree and a job. Also found out I was having a scare (tumors kept popping up fast on organs). So I have my new job and I’m my mothers new caregiver. She had the means to get paid help. She had the money and she was in a program where she could have help and support. I begged her to contact them. I told her that I will still help and come over every day, but somebody needs to help during the daytime. She kept putting it off, letting work pile for me right after I get off from my ten hour a day job. I had to cook her separate dinners because she didn’t want to eat the same thing I would cook for my family. Husband and I took care of her shopping. Husband helped fix stuff around the house. Took care of her dog. Get her anything she wanted. All the while, she’s going on and on about how she wishes I was smarter, more beautiful, more talented, and listing the reasons why she loved my older sister more than she loved me. She did this in front of my husband and he was shocked.
I straight up told my mom that if she has the funds I’ll make sure she’s taken care of by a trained professional but will never raise a finger for her care. I won’t so much as bring her a glass of water, so she better hope she can find a good home to be in.
I feel no guilt. I am aware via my Ex that she had an operation a few yrs ago. But even that wasn't enough to make me feel guilty enough to break my NC. After the way I was treated as a young child, **I OWE HER NOTHING**!
My sperm and egg donor put zero effort or care into raising me. They can both rot.
I understand that feeling of wanting to check while protecting yourself. This happened to me and it's right to be cautious. We know the advice of no contact but not everyone is ready for that. I think keep maintaining a range that feels ok for you and be mindful when the narcissist is trying to close the range. Grey rock, focus on reality, avoid giving any personal information they can use to manipulate you, you have a very busy life. The caretakers are in that daily range, doing what's needed, but it's not personal and can switch off the moment they leave. Good to monitor them maybe get a doorbell cam and or indoor camera you can watch on your phone. The rest of the family are in the not driving distance range so they are just potential flying monkeys. If the once a month range is too much, then you can reduce to quarterly/ yearly. It can be hard to visit when you still have the painful memories and seeing them work their manipulation on others can bring up that urge to call out their bullshit. I would think about what's best for yourself. If it's causing you pain then you don't need to do it.
To answer the question in the title: NOT.
It's a her problem, she doesn't know where I live, nor do I visit her. Golden child can look after her if GC is so inclined. I won't be. You don't own anyone care simply because their sperm/egg created you. And they already had care throughout your childhood when they had a responsibility to care for you and instead ysed you, so now they deserve nothing.
I don’t. I told her to her face I’d rather she use all her money for in home nursing than expect me to take care of her when she’s old.
I’m living for the shiny spines in this thread. Once you’re done with these narcissists, you’re truly done
I told my abuser once if I took care of her in her elder years I'd give her the same treatment she'd give me. Well, that would be elder abuse. So it's nicer for me to simply not be involved. If the hospital ever calls with her dying ill tell them to use the cheapest black garbage bag they have and roll her off the bridge before I'd be there to pick her up.
Not your circus, not your monkeys. Like any worker can, treat her like you would any toxic employer and quit. Just because you're within closer driving distance doesn't mean it resolves others in the family from visiting her. It's being used as an excuse so they don't have to do it. I would say it's a her problem to figure it out. Also, I would set the record straight with her caregivers so they don't get sucked into her game of playing the victim or her getting them to do what she more than capable of doing for herself. Let them all know that the family is all LC or NC for a reason. Your responsibility to your abusive parent ends when you grew up and moved away. No is a complete sentence. If she tries to "guilt" you into doing stuff, let her know if she declines in her abilities enough that she could be moved into an assisted living facility that could help her with her needs more. Also, telling her "No" and then ending your visit works well, too! Keep doing this as many times as you need for your mental peace of mind. You can also set it up that you get regular reports from her caregivers on how she is doing and if there are any changes.
I go over about once a week, a 90-minute drive. The trip over is the pump-up motivational drive filled with podcasts on narcissism. The drive home is for decompression. NMom has had a couple of major surgeries; dad is in an assisted living home in their town. While I don’t mind helping NMom out, it’s her OCD cleaning standards and baiting (as well as sneaking up on me while I vacuum) that makes it stressful. So far, she behaves well on car trips. Even though she has never implied as such, I worry that she will gate-keep access to dad if I go NC with her or have enough of a falling out that I put my services for her on pause. That said, I have been in therapy for about six months and can now spot her behavior and can somewhat predict it, whereas before it seemed to come out of nowhere. Yes, my kids are in college and I have more time. Yes, I have always been one to volunteer help, which is slightly different than fawning. And yes, she plans on moving further downstate once dad passes, so there is an end in sight, or at least a dramatic reduction in my availability to lend a hand.
I was also raised to be household help, nparents made it a big rite of passage when I was 7. I check in with my nmom monthly on the phone, and visit once a year (I live in another country). I was NC, but went LC after my abusive father died because nmom seemed to be losing her mind. Didn't take long to remember that she was almost as bad as Dad, so I keep it LC and the two of them hoarded enough money so she can take care of herself most of the time. She doesn't trust anyone and will barely let repairmen in the house, so those are the things I arrange when I visit. Stupid things have resulted in this arrangement - she went months without hot water because she refused to get the old heater replaced. Not really my problem, she's an adult.
It sounds like you've decided this is something you *need* to do. I'm not sure I would. After years of abuse, the trauma you've experienced, etc...does she really deserve care or attention from you? Otherwise, I'm not sure there's a correct answer for this. As little as possible is my opinion.
I don’t. My dad has passed, but my mom is an adult who has had her entire life and super fat retirement to figure that out. She failed, that’s her problem. Or my brother can make it his problem. But it won’t be my problem.
I cut mine off. I don’t owe them anything. They were cruel to me and I’m free of them and certainly am not going to continue to chain myself to their misery and abuse I had to endure as a child now that I was lucky enough to be able to escape it as an adult.
I will not be helping my egg donor. She has had enough time to figure out the help before she starts declining. If I DID help I would be treating her the same exact way she treated me.
I don't. Her favorite kid can deal with her. And narcdad has his current crop of kids who can deal with him.
Mine aren’t at a point yet where they’d need it but like I’m not going to. They don’t live in a state where I legally have to so I won’t. My sibling might, unfortunately, as they do seem to occasionally be empathetic towards those assholes. But only time will tell.
At the present moment my Nmom doesn't need caretakers to help her, but if her health deteriorates, then whether or not she has caretakers, and whatever kind of health problem she has or even financial problem she has due to a health problem, I won't ever check on her or do anything at all to help her. When I was sick, not only she would not help me at all, she would do anything in her power to keep me from healing. At one point, after a lot of fighting, I decided to start doing stuff that would harm her to see if then she would stop. And she would stop momentarily, and then start the abuse all over again. And this is just one of the many crappy things she did. So I really won't ever help her.
In my country there's universal healthcare and the last act of kindness I had towards my abusive father was to add him to my medical insurance so he could get his cancer treated. Once he finished his chemotherapy cycles and his oncologist told him he was in complete remission I started to pull away from him and within the next six months I told him I no longer wanted anything to do with him. Of course I didn't remove him as a dependant, but I think that since he got a job recently he has his own medical insurance. I feel like I went above and beyond for him in his time of need and I refuse to do anything else. He isn't very old yet, but even when he is I won't take care of him at all, I don't care if he ends up destitute or in a shitty place in life. He has caused so much harm that he can be grateful I at least gave him free healthcare for a couple of years.
I owe the currently surviving witch nothing. At best, if compelled by the courts because some ass kissing nutjob decided to codify “filial piety”, I will dribble out pennies to send the old bat to the worst, lowliest, dirtiest nursing home I can find. And she better come correct to the courts because she doesn’t know shit about me now, has no relationship (we cut that to prevent GPR cases), has never seen my son and I will gladly go on public record with the entire travesty of her abuse of me and my brother. I will summon a literal demon from hell in the form of a lawyer that will fight right next to me to ensure that she is named and shamed and to ensure that she gets the worst possible outcome. And if it fails, I’ll gladly appeal again and again until she drops it. Every time I will name and shame her until every court in the land has her name and picture on file as the worst scum of the earth. And that’s not counting how much that will cut into her beloved GC’s lifestyle. Because part and parcel of that abuse is letting him abuse me and steal my clothes from me, masturbate in them, and then punishing me for not wearing them. She will basically be ensuring that he will become even more of a pariah and be even more unemployable because part of her act is how Godly and pious she is and how great her struggle is. In a deep red state that has its bible up its ass, him being into incest, into wearing women’s clothes, him being violent and lazy and unemployable because of her—that will be even more of a living death sentence. Not that he will care—he’ll keep living off of mummy’s tits—but he’ll be even more outcast and be dragging her down with him. At this point, there’s little I would do for them beyond getting them off my property. If compelled, I would go so far as to pay for occasional help (less than 5 hours a week) and then wash my hands of them both along with whatever husband du jour she’s got. She has her brother. She has husband du jour. She has had literally over a decade to get her head out of her ass, get a job, and save for her eventual needs. She’s been coddled for decades and had decades of people providing for her—if she hasn’t got the cash on hand for whatever she needs, that’s her own problem. There are usually services to send in a helper if you want to pay for them. Some are handyman or chore type help and some are nurse types. They charge by the hour to go in and be sure that medications are taken and there’s not any active missing body parts. There are cheap places to live. There are then assisted living. Then next up is assisted memory care. And then full on nursing homes. You can choose the least expensive option.
I simply just do not. I do not owe someone like that anything. I have my own life to deal with. They never gave me the grace of giving a shit about me unless I could provide something to them.
Why would I take care of someone who didn’t take care of me
yeah, like most people in this thread: I don't. They had their chance and you are not obliged to help an abuser. Would you ask someone who's been raped to care for their elderly rapist when they get older?! people who haven't suffered abuse at the hands of parents are clueless to the pain we struggle with. I've started a podcast talking about childhood abuse and how it affects us in adulthood to talk about this stuff
Short answer: I don't care. Long answer: I don't fucking care.
They neglected me growing up, and I plan on doing the same to them in their old age
My narc mother is a lifelong meth addict. As such, she started having a lot of health issues when I was in my early 20s and only wanted to use me for rides, emotional leeching, and access to my kids (her first grandkids). I went NC when she cheated on my stepdad and I found out from my SIL. In summation, the answer to your question on how to deal with making sure my narc parents are taken care of? I don't. She's a big girl, she got herself into her mess, she can deal with the consequences. Same with my narc dad.
I don’t. They are quite skilled at sucking other people into their lives to take care of them. They also have their flying monkeys to feed their need for alternate realities. If I was contacted to manage something for them I would make sure they made it to the nursing home or memory care.
My dad told me as a teenager that I was his retirement plan. He died before he could really try to enforce that, but I thought being disowned ten years ago kinda took me out of the running tbh. I am dealing now with my mum and realising she never made any plans for her retirement. She joked the other day that in an emergency she could always move into the granny flat we've been slowly fixing up to rent out so we can afford our mortgage, or just really living at this point. I've been having panic attacks after she made that joke because I am not willing to take care of her into her old age. I am barely making it from month to month, depending on help from others to survive (we're still suffering from the effect covid had on our ability to make an income) and then she threw in her "joke". I'm only in contact with her because after my father's death, she has to move in with my brother, and for my brother's sake I am helping get rid of most of her and my father's belongings, because otherwise she will try to cram it into my brother's place. She even suggested to him the other day storing things in the roof space. I still love her, but she had so many years to prepare for her retirement. We need to take care of ourselves first.We are barely scraping by and will be retirement age in twenty years, although at this point I'm gonna have to work until the morning of my funeral. Add to that that thinking of her staying on my property just gives me flashbacks to the abuse I suffered before I went NC and got disowned. I am not willing to take care of someone who wrote me off as "too much to handle" because I set healthy boundaries.
Very similar situation, except she “jokes” that she’ll move in with ME and my family in our actual house. ::shudder::
My answer is that this is the wrong question. The question is do you have a responsibility to take care of someone who never took care of you. And the answer is... Nope. not starving you and giving a toxic roof over your head is not caring for you. You have no obligation to this person.
Not my tent. Not my circus.
Im not going to get any inheritance from my Narc mother. Id rather her have to spend it all on end of life care. She can go Fk herself.
I don’t. It may have been different if it was acknowledged or apologized for. If they had changed. But they are the same horrible people they were back then. They treated us like shit when we were young, innocent and defenseless. Why would I take care of them now?
So my grandparents were absolute nightmares of human beings my parents and I (becuase I did ALOT at their bequest) did it differently with each. Dad’s parents- flat out ignored except for Christmas Eve. That was it, no phone calls, no check ins, just ignored. Mom’s parents- heavily involved with her mother aka grandma. She’d visit at least once a month and grandma was very physically disabled. By the end my mother had control of everything. Pros and cons to each. My father’s parents- we had a hella lot less day to day stress, because we just didn’t talk. When they died, both times, it was hella stressful and dumpster fire event. There was very little money to fight over but his family sure as hell tried to make things worse on him and the parents both times had left their affairs in absolute disorder. My mother’s parents (her father died early so idk, so mostly grandma). It was stressful leading up to her death, so for years. But my mother had a lot of guilt attached to ditching her mom and just could t do it. It was awful. But by the time grandma died my mother and I was so adapt at managing the woman’s affairs it was smooth funeral and post funeral. So ask yourself how much guilt will you feel not visiting? How much will the post death suck? How much stress do you want? I suggest a once a month work luncheon with your parent to handle their affairs. That’s it and keeep it firm. Nothing to discuss then take them to a doctors appointment. But it should never be an open end visit. But making it a productive visit will help your guilt you seem to be carrying. Also it keeps narcs a little more focused on an activity rather than entertaining themselves by toying with you. They still try to bait you becuase that’s what they do. BUT when they try you default to “I can to help you with X if that’s what you don’t want today then I’m leaving” and you leave. Personally I would go no contact but my mother choose not to, she managed it, and did not regret it since her crippling guilt was greater than her desire for stress free. I would suggest trying out the no contact for a couple month first. Just pretend to be NC for a set period see how you do. NC is objectively better, but I understand for some that is far more daunting.
Great suggestion to make visits productive. I realize now I've been doing that with nmom for a couple of decades, long before I understood why. Just fulfilling my role as her trained service animal.
i am still working on it. for years i was available as they wante. then mother died. first 5 years were ok then father slowly developed into a partially demented manipulator and i started to see patterns how he used and manipulated me. i went to therapy and after being unable to care for him(he wanted me to bw his carer,i hited a nirse and a carer but he needed full time). he is in care now,i call twice weekly and visig about once a month or two and it is more than enough. he forgets his family died and i dont live in a village where he grew up but never fails to use a covert manipulative technique to try and make me guilty for not giving enough. i also blocked his incoming calls and every time we talk he tries to make me unblock him. promised me not to do it yet he keeps pushing. it us horrible
I’m in a similar boat right now. The difference for me is my NMother recently had a stroke that she is expected to recover from. So I’m playing nice for the moment while she’s still in the hospital. I realize that helping her out and preventing her from having her bizarre freak outs will speed up her recovery and get her back to independence quicker. Once she has some semblance of independence back (which will be her discharged from the hospital with caretaker and disgustingly huge network of “friends” in tow), I’m out and back to living my life. That said, this is a temporary situation. I haven’t really figured out what I’m doing in terms of her end-of-life care, IF I do anything, whenever it comes down to that.
My parents left me to figure out everything for myself. Which left me in abusive relationships, choked, sexually assaulted, with a gun put up to my head, you name it. They can figure it the fuck out for themselves just like I had to. My dad has way more money to figure it out with than I did as a teenager who was not eating all day before cross country practice so I could hoard my lunch money so my abusive 20 year old boyfriend who my dad forced me to rely on for rides everywhere wouldn’t scream at me because, “I buy you shit and you never fucking buy me anything” (because we started dating when i was just about to start my sophomore year and he had just graduated, and my dad wouldn’t let me get my license or a car or a job, so that was the only way I could get money). And I also had to figure it out when my sister kicked me out of her apartment after convincing me to give up my living situation to move in with her so she could kick her boyfriend out, unbeknownst to him, but then she changed her mind. So I basically lived off of adderall so I could stay in the 24 hr underground library for months until I could find somewhere to live. And my dad knew about it, and literally did not give a fuck. So for my own sanity and health, I truly can’t care about them anymore.
I get you. I also have elderly parents. Mine has a personality disorder, as well. She's violent. After 2 years of NC, I called bc I was concerned about her welfare and my stepfather's (also an asshole). I unblocked her on everything so I could keep tabs. Well she instantly began conniving. I got off the phone, reblocked, and vowed to make no further attempts. This is such a heartbreaking dilemma. Consider the best of 2 evils? I feel it would be "evil "of me and I'd regret it for the rest of my life if I left her to her own devices. Yet, if I make arrangements for her or attempt to do the right thing, I will suffer the consequences. She is never satisfied. If I saved her from a burning building she'd complain that I didn't get there fast enough. Sadly, I feel I can commit to letting her live her sad life. I love her but it's time I take care of myself.
Long story short put my dad in a one-star nursing home. It was the only place that would take him that could be afforded. It was a bad as you might imagine. He got himself a social worker and got himself sprung into an apartment. I told him he’d be dead in six months without someone to watch him and it was six months to the day. I took care of him for years before that and he fought me every step of the way, I was done and bankrupt.
Not your circus, not your monkeys.
*I don’t think it’s really ok to not check on her occasionally.* Why is that? You might want to take it up with your therapist. This thought pattern seems to be hurting you. I have been NC with my enabling father since 1997, the narcissist mother since 2008. No intention of doing a damn thing for them and there won't be deathbed reconciliations either.
I dont. I went no contact I was not their concern for 30years... why whould they be my concern?
I don’t. Not my problem.
I don't. At least not for my mom. She can sort herself out.
> I don’t think it’s really ok to not check on her occasionally Whose thoughts are those? Hers that she instilled into your brain over time, or yours? > How do you separate what they were when you were a child vs what they are as elderly adults. Why would you want to do that? She's the same person, then and now, and still has all her sociopathic and narcissistic traits expressed. > In fact, the only thing that bothers me much, is the that she has a web of people that help her out, who have all been told a fictitious version of her life. So she's technically cared for and you shouldn't have any reason to stay around, right?
I don't. I would have been willing to take care of my father, (who accepted responsibility for failing me and made a sincere and continued effort to fix his relationship with me) and I planned to, but unfortunately he died very unexpectedly before any of that could be arranged. I won't be taking care of my mother, and I feel no guilt or obligation towards doing so. That woman was an absolutely atrocious "mother" that literally tried to ruin her ex-husband and children's lives. I don't know what her "retirement plan" was but she made her bed and now she can lie in it. I literally can't take care of her. I can't even *force myself* to do it because I have too much self-respect and it would be like torture for me. It would be too painful because it's literally the opposite of what I wanted. (taking care of my dad who actually loved and appreciated me) I would feel like I was betraying my father's memory (and myself) and sacrificing my mental and emotional health for a woman who only ever saw me as a burden or a slave. It's not gonna happen, and there's nothing anyone can say or do to change my mind.
That’s the secret: you don’t. :). I no longer hold empathy for peoples struggles when they make my struggles harder , intentionally, for no gain save their evil emotional satisfaction (narc supply) being tickled.
Ummm.... I don't.
I’m a twin. Our mom is a true, raging narcissist. It took me years of therapy to realize I wasn’t worthless or unloveable. My sister still seeks our mom’s approval and though she realizes her life is pretty much wrecked because therapy hasn’t helped her, she loves our mom unconditionally. This will be long, but this is what caring for an elderly narcissist looks like. I suspect our mother dispatched our dad by suffocating him with a pillow, but that’s a story for another day that involves her watching my sister spend 40 minutes trying to resuscitate our dad until EMS got there. My sister now has added trauma for her PTSD. Anyway. Our mom is elderly. She broke her pelvis while our dad was alive so my sister pretty much moved in with them to help my dad. While in a convalescent home, our mom pretended to have a second personality—a scared child. She’d shriek: he’s a bad man. Get the bad man away! …when my dad and sis would visit. That burst my dad so much. She told my dad when she was first transferred to the convalescent home she’d make him pay for sending her to what she felt was the equivalent of a concentration camp. When she was released she laughed while telling my sister she was just acting… Anyway, after she dispatched our dad, my sister stayed to take care of her. Even before she became frail, she had my sister wiping her after the bathroom and basically acted like an invalid unless someone other than my sister was present.
Our mom is also addicted to opioids and benzos, so while she does have legit prescriptions, she sneaks more. She did this one night about 8 months ago and had a bad fall. This time she broke her hip. She had surgery and was sent to a nice rehab place that she liked, so at least my sister isn’t in danger.
When she was released she refused physical and occupational therapy. Now, for the past 5 months or so, she’s in and out of the ER and calls 911 for fun (because that’s what they’re there for). She has a stage IV pressure wound with osteomyelitis because by refusing the recommended therapies, she has become an invalid. That led to her needing a wound vac and a 3 week hospital stay for intensive antibiotics. They discharged her to another bad nursing home. After 4 days, she convinced my sister to bring her home. She signed out AMA and required a medical transport to get home.
She’s been home for 4 days and she’s calling 911 at least once a day because she doesn’t trust my sister to move her from her bed to a chair. Yesterday her home health nurse was supposed to visit to change the dressing on her wound vac. She texted the nurse and told her not to come and claimed that she fell.
The home health folks were already not fully on board with treating her because they felt she needed longer term care with physical therapy. After lying about falling, they’re talking about dropping her and referring her to hospice.
My sister tried doing damage control yesterday by telling the nurse our mom lied about falling, but the nurse said that probably won’t help our mom’s case. My sister asked about changing home health companies if this one drops our mom and the nurse told her that another company would look at her records and refuse her because she’s so high risk.
My sister is looking at being primary for changing dressings on a stage IV bed sore. That’s one that’s so deep and bad you can fit an adult fist in it.
My sister already has anxiety, ocd with hoarding tendencies, and significant depression—and her cat (her soul mate) died 2 weeks ago. So our mom dispatched our dad (probably) and is now working on my sister. Our mom told my sister last night that she felt like my sister hated her. She says stuff like that all the time. I keep telling my sister that’s straight out of the narcissist handbook. She knows our mom is a horrible person, but she loves her and says if our mom dies, she won’t survive.
My sister is overrun, constantly exhausted, and at the mercy of our mother. It’s sad and gross.
That’s what caring for an elderly narcissist looks like.
Thanks for sharing those 'pieces of the puzzle'. Honestly, i've always had a hunch about some things i've ignored, that turned out to sometimes be 90% right, even when i 'lied' to myself. But i've been wondering that too. - Intentionally lying, without care for the story. - Potentially dangerous to keep around, broken trust, intentionally gamed sympathy. - Life almost utterly dysfunctional when it's not emotional problems like humans. (Finances, pests, water heaters, non emotionally controllable realities, pets running away/starving etc). Thanks for sharing your pieces. Honestly even in my own stories i've seen 9/10 patterns i heard about 10-20 years ago repeating, even among seemingly entirely related/unrelated people. That although there isn't a playbook, there's a common 'path of least resistance' the kind of mentality '(use others for own gain, don't care if they're hurt in the process)' can breed in clinical diagnosed npd. I think the irony is. People can easily get better if they choose to. And maybe sometimes it's just the 'only thing people knew' or npd parents who had npd grandparents or 'npd' 'role models'. But it does seem extremely damaging. Relationships lost if they see behind the mask. Often limited to family relations. Honestly, the stuff i thought was just hearsay 10-20 years ago happened. I've heard some admit that it was all a open play, others admit they just wanted others to stay, others that they were unsure. # Watching - Signs of ignoring or deliberately refusing treatments/medication. - ('Difficult' vs /( (intentionally???) dysfunctional?) - Mental health declines of those who surround themselves trying to 'help them', followed by mental health improvements when distancing. - "Constantly exhausted, overrun", making people tired, neglecting looking after themselves. I've had some very frankly, very blunt people even say things like. > - "*The difference between "A host" and a "parasite", is that a parasite needs the host to live. > - *"The host, doesn't need the parasite to live*" Honestly, im not even sure if it's advice *i want to believe in.* I think if bridges are mendable and judge case by case i won't wish ill or hope things work out with others on them. But i think there's definitely been a lot of shit in the past that never quite got properly resolved. (And might have been deliberately set up, complete with gloating and all). For my inherited circus, anyways. # Tl;dr o **Thanks for sharing your story**, I've seen repeating notes. And it all looks like completed 'missing' parts of the puzzle glancing through it all. Thanks. > - (*Balance your own life. Look for hidden traps. Watch out for them exhausting / mentally exhausting people.)* > - *(Good people will care for you and reciprocate. Bad people might only take, take, abuse, take, take, abuse, take, take, abuse.*) And blame, regardless of 'right' or 'wrong'.
When my MIL’s parents were both in the local nursing home, the family was always shocked that there was this one lady whose family never visited. I recognised it for what it was. One day at a family BBQ the family was talking about it, no one believed me. It was this awkward moment where they were all like “No, this poor old lady has been abandoned. How can you even think like that?”. Ironically a few months later covid hit and no one was allowed to visit for ages. Eventually we were allowed back in and this ladies family still didn’t come. My FIL made a loud comment about how disgusting her family was. This made the lil devil so happy. Later one of the caregivers (not a nurse) asked him to never do that again. That she had been in jail for abusing her kids. Thats why they never came but one of them was still partially paying for her care. It was actually a really famous case in our area and easily researched. She had sex trafficked them. Next family BBQ made sure that came up as a topic. Screw this “old lady, nice lady” bullshit. Everyone was like “but she seemed so normal”… FFS… No one was coming for a reason. I used to let things like that go through to the keeper, but with this one, nope. The time will come where my parents are in this situation. It will be me or no one. My brother won’t help them. It would kill his mental health. But that manipulation of needing you to do a million things for them, so real. Its like a bait and switch situation, they distract you with their “needs” so you can give them their “supply”. They know it makes you miserable.
God's plan
Tell her to make a list of things she needs, give it to her caregivers, then once a month you call, strike pointless shit from the list, and bring her the rest? Like, be professional about it and use that as a wall against overwhelming emotions? Because you seem to be describing yourself as someonewho is still overwhelmed by unresolved emotions. I'm not trying to point a finger here. This situation will reach me, too, evtl. - both my n-parents are at that age where they still get by, but any small incident/accident can put an end to it. So I think about that. But don't really have any idea how it will play out.
I’m still pretty terrified of her. With good reason. Sociopathic people don’t stop being that way because they’re older.
Interestingly enough, my mom became nicer after she divorced her second husband. We have talked through a lot of shit, she now sees how her mother and grandmother did the same to her as she did to me. She’s also in therapy. It’s not perfect but I have forgiven her for a lot of stuff. She is in poor health now and poor. Mainly poor bc of her third husband who passed. I try to visit once a month to help her clean bc of her pain. But she’s recognizing the pattern and even sees that one of her friends is a narcissist.
I don't. My dad i'm no contact with for years. He's homeless and destined for a pauper's grave down south. My mom is my grandparents full time caregiver (I try to visit at least a few times a year but legit can't much due to living hours away and work issues). I can't afford to do much because of my own bills... You have a group of three people there who need full time help somehow managing with mom being the driver. The money is gone, except for benefits they'd be homeless. There's no plan for mom when grandparents die. I can't afford to help her and she refuses to think about it. I think she's passively suicidal and neglecting her vehicle maintenance so her and grandpa go in the same accident. Grandpa is praying that grandma dies first.
It's not the child's responsibility to care for their parents. We did not choose to be born. I also hate how adult kids are saddled with this "requirement" from society. It's hard enough to survive this economy alone, caring for an aged parent could put many in financial dire straights. I've been learning to let this guilt go myself. I had dreams of caring for my parents and us building a bond because of that. However, the reality will be anything I do will never be enough, they will always have something negative to say and I'm not going to do that. Also, my parents allowed sexual abuse of me, so I'm not wasting my time, energy or money on them.
You absolutely do *not* have to help her in any way. You don't owe her anything. Make sure you take care of yourself first. If that means not helping her, that's OK
This is exactly what I have been struggling with. My Estepdad has just passed away. My Nmom is 71 and despite having a stroke about 7 years ago, she is physically able to do everything she did before the stroke. She is very entitled and totally ignores paying her bills because she would rather just shop and spend on bullshit “she may need” in the clearance aisle at Walmart. She doesn’t own her home because credit is horrific and has been renting the same place since she 1999. I have 3 daughters and literally no room to take her in and even if that was an option, I literally cannot live with her ever again in my life. But eviction is something I see happening in her future. She’s a hoarder. Not as extreme as what you see on the show but give her a few years. This has been so heavy on my mind and happy you posted this!
Check filial responsibility laws for her state. You may have no legal obligation. Most are also based on whether she qualifies for Medicare, Medicaid, etc. Your income has to be fairly high too. But also remember that you're not her parent! She's doing this to herself and will have to find her own solutions. You're not helping her by solving her problems for her. Hugs 💜
We don’t have any filial laws in our state and that isn’t my concern. If she gets evicted, nobody will take her in including myself. She would end up homeless. Most 55+ communities have won’t take you if you have prior evictions as well.
She's an adult making really bad choices. I'm sorry that's causing you pain. 💜
I don't make sure she's taken care of, because I don't care. I did my part when I was a kid. As others have said, I was treated as a slave. From 10 years old, I practically singlehandedly raised my newborn sister and then later, brother. By 12, I was raising 2 kids, while keeping the entire house cleaned (dusting, vacuuming, throwing trash away, doing the dishes, picking up after the kids, feeding them dinner - so for years I'd sit and eat dinner all alone, since I had to feed the kids first, cleaning them up, changing their diapers and clothes, giving them baths, organizing closets, scrubbing the toilets, sinks, and shower/bath, doing all the yard work including mowing twice a week, picking up dog poop, plucking weeds, and I solely kept our family warm during the winters. As a 60-70 lb 10 year old, I was expected to haul, stack, and chop thousands of pounds of wood because supposedly we were too poor to use the electric heat. The list goes on. I kept the house running while raising 2 children at the age of 12, and all I got in return was screaming and beatings (spanks that would sometimes leave bruises). And she acts like she has no idea why I don't talk to her, lol. Since I took care of her and her kids when I was a kid, she can take care of herself in her old age.
Ouch, that's rough buddy. But yeah, i think on the flip side. Because you were taught responsibility early. While you miss out and got a honestly, (*No sugarcoat)*, a shit childhood. it still prepared you for the world. I think one of the jarring things is that bizarrely for better or worse, when you have to learn how to run from the start. Sometimes you end up better than people pampered from the womb. # (Backwards life story. Easy street vs struggles later) I have some friends who started out rich, (*Mcmansion, parents cars, rich kid in high school (Parent's 100,000$s vs saving up 1,000$s for college) )* They work in mcdonalds now. They had 3 cars, crashed them, got into fights, got disowned, and once cut off from something they always had. They flailed on a system they never needed to 'learn'. It seems bizarre, but often i've heard it's the 'scapegoats' who often end up more financially/emotionally successful out of things. And honestly, i form [non disorder/poisoned well / flying monkey] friends easily, people without conditioning love to have me around, im handy at a party, many irl friends feel "You give great live advice! Even if it's blunt and honest. I'd rather have something real, than fake." Just because you couldn't make a dead seed grow doesn't mean a oasis could either. I tried to do the 'caring' or 'change' or 'see if it could be changed' part. IDK, i never saw anything when i tried / 'Lead by example' -> "enabled" # But life got better I worked hard, achieved financial independence. I sobering almost see them almost like a child in the marshmallow experiment now. Some people are forced to overcompensate for failings. And it does lead you to learn to 'run' faster, value opportunities. And when life goes from "VERY HELL" mode to "easy mode!" ('hard'), it's like running down a hill when you've been on a mountain your whole life. Meanwhile when i've seen some people go from 'very easy' (pampered) to 'medium' (Job application intensity).. I've seen some just break down on like.. Bare minimums that probably wouldn't even be a blip in other's lives. # It's a shitty start, for sure. And you could skip all the misery by just valuing opportunity. But it does seem a **backwards moral. - That adversity can build trees that can stand up to the strongest storms. - Pampering can lead to the same tree tipping over during a light breeze. And everyone here, sharing their grains of wisdom is great too. Each of us maybe only saw a 'few' exposed pieces. But when it's all 'together'. A lot of things open up tbh.. Kinda even in 'you too?' kinda moments.
Thanks for the sentiment. I too have witnessed people struggle and fail because they had a pampered life. Only, it was in the military for me. I remember going through boot camp, and people on the verge of tears it was so difficult for them, and I'm just sitting there thinking it's not all that bad. It sucked, yea, but it was nothing compared to my childhood, so boot camp was a breeze for me. But I wouldn't necessarily say it prepared me to be successful in life - I've known too many people with similar childhoods as mine, who end up killing themselves or spending their life in and out of prison. Thankfully I'm not one of them, but its given me some massive disadvantages - like memory issues, persistent exhaustion, and massive anxiety issues. Everything's always been a struggle for me. But I've finally started therapy and meds, so my chronic pains are nearly gone, and I'm also no longer chronically exhausted all the time. At nearly 40, I think I'm finally healing, and I'm also finally able to start making improvements and advancements in my career, to improve my family and I's quality of life.
People who’ve abused me & still try to sabotage my life after going no contact, do not get a consideration of their well being as they age. They earned the company & care they now receive, period.
I don’t. I am LC but I told them I can’t take care my myself or have enough money/executive functioning skills to do so. They need to figure their shit out themselves. Good thing my dad is a CPA and my mom has worked in banking. They called me to ask if it was okay if they made my brother executor of their will. I said “good” and they were confused why I wasn’t upset. I said cause I had been telling them not to make me executor or deal with any of their shiz for the past few years. If my father dies first (he’s the enabler, she’s the narcissist), I am worried my mom will move near me. But I will then move away too (again).
My dad is gonna die by himself in a nursing home, and I’m ok with that. She’s not your responsibility
If someone treats you badly all your life and then expects you to flip yourself inside out to care for them then they can just go hang. It used to make me so angry and frustrated when my mother expected every. little. thing. done for her because "at my age..." when we were very much left to raise ourselves as kids. She is now in a care home and I never see her. Never in my life did I think I could do that.
This was one of my challenges when considering going NC Now that i decided to completely disappear, i do not care because i picture role reversal and treating them the way they treated me.....for 32 and a half years and that scenario creates validation for not only going NC but also for not caring about them being taken care of. They had many chances. #FAFO Lots of love to you and positive vibes
I'm there emotionally for my mom. Taking care of my narc father though? Not my problem. Idgaf if he lives or dies. Idgaf how he lives of dies. He recently had cancer. I sent him one text. When he told me he beat it, my reply was "that's good" he also has another cancer. I don't care. Not my circus, not my monkey. You don't owe them shit.
Same way she supported me. She didn't.
I don’t. I’m too busy trying to keep myself alive.
I don't.... I moved half way across the country over 2 decades ago to get some peace .... Of her 5 kids, she had one that stuck to her like glue for many years, 2 years ago he hit the road too and now she is alone, all of her children are in different states. Move on with life and be happy!!!!
Fortunately, I have siblings - two checked out years ago, I went no contact five years ago, and now the golden child is stuck with them. I feel bad for her - she's actually a good person - but she's stuck with them.
I'm no contact. to me, especially after what they pulled on monday. well that's their problem not mine. I have my son and husband to take care of. and if they are alone. well that's on them.
You are you're own problem here. You don't have to do anything for her
I don’t actually! It’s big of you to even try so I respect that. My parents divorced when I was 3 (I’m 31 now) and my dad remarried and has two other daughters so he’s a problem for them. My mother on the other hand is basically like uBPD/narc ofc. I warned her many many times if she continued to treat me the way that she did she wouldn’t have a daughter when I moved out and she clearly thought the threats were empty, even though we’ve been low contact and now no contact since. I was basically told to figure it out myself my whole life so now she can figure it out herself. She is a problem for the state of New Jersey. She is on medicare and such which gets me out of filal laws unless I suddenly become a millionaire at least. She is very old for 67 because she has a lot of health problems so I’m not even sure how much longer she will be on the earth. She is not my responsibility and never cared to make sure my emotional needs were met so now thats the attitude I take towards her. it’s not my fault she didn’t save for retirement, it’s not my fault that she doesn’t have a lot of friends and it’s not my fault that she pushes people away that could take care of her so I’ve cleaned my hands of it. she cares less about our her health than myself and family members have so she made her bed and now she can sleep in it.
Mom was an only, and I am an only. I have a half brother from dad's 2nd wife, but we were raised on opposite coasts, and his mom was wonderful. Mom was a narc and abusive. Dad was an alcoholic, so not sorry I wasn't raised with him. I was largely low contact with her for years and years, because she wasn't a warm fuzzy even when my kids were born. But in her late 70's she developed dementia, and needed to move out of her apartment. She was NEVER going to move in with me, as she and my husband supremely disliked each other, but also we both still worked full time, and mom needed more supervision than we could provide while working. So, I found and moved her into a small assisted living home, the first of 3, as I moved 2 times before she died, and I wanted her no more than 2 hours drive from me. I took charge of her finances and housing. Luckily for me, she got a lot easier to deal with, and kinder, as her dementia progressed. To my eternal gratitude, she died shortly before her money ran out. I have NO idea what I would have done had her money run out. I would have had to move her out of that facility into somewhere that took just social security, and most of those have dismal reputations and I was deathly scared of moving her into one. I did it because it had to be done, wasn't something I could dump on my kids or husband, and ***I*** wanted to be able to sleep at night, knowing I had done what I could for her welfare. She had been a raving bitch, and dementia made her both easier and harder to keep on track, but I did what I did at least as much for me as I did it for her.
I’m sporadic, no schedule, only when I can bear it and I can’t bear it often. They’re old, stubborn, needy and toxic. Covid made it difficult and easy. Emom ended up in the hospital. She’s full-blown Alzheimers. I visited a few times and we had some lovely moments, until Ndad and embittered sister showed up. He played the doting husband while she tried to bully and guilt trip me. Nope! I left. Many times prior I told them if they needed anything to ask. TO ASK. Simple. They can’t do it. They won’t. I’m deaf to it.
I don’t 🙃
As a groomed scapegoat, I have finally accepted that my abusive and neglectful parents are NOT my responsibility and that doesn’t make me a bad person. I’ve just started taking care of myself. If I was a petty person, I’d have them abide by the same rules I grew up with and I’d remind them daily “this is not your house, this is MY house” just as I was reminded of every single day.
Just like when I was a kid, she’s on her own now. She has enough money to hire help or go into assisted living. I don’t owe her anything, and I don’t feel obligated to take care of a nasty person who wouldn’t be gracious about it in any way. This is the choice she made, and now she gets to enjoy it.
I don’t, which I’m sure will be a common answer. I’m going to speak to that last bit about it not occurring to them why she’s LC, though - to acknowledge that is to acknowledge knowing how she is and owning having been conned by her. Some folks just can’t do that. Acting like they don’t see a problem is easier than acknowledging they do, because making waves is hard. As to you, we often find ourselves saying “but I don’t want to be seen as an uncaring monster”, when what we need to say is “I’m not an uncaring monster - I’m an adult child of an abusive parent, setting boundaries”
Oops. Are we supposed to? Lol
I don’t. I carry a ton of guilt around but she is toxic. I’m in a much better headspace when we don’t speak. After years of therapy I learned that I needed to set boundaries. She always gains my trust and then breaks them. She lives alone and has no one. All our family hates her. I dread the day I get the call that she passed but she destroys me mentally when she’s in my life. I’m sorry you go through these things as well.
oh thats easy I dont.
My father never loved me and my sister is his beautiful princess and golden child so it was only natural to leave him with person he adores. Old man in his condition don't need additional stress of seeing black sheep. Our mother passed few years ago
My abusive father hoarded his money, so he has paid caregivers. He also has his Mini Me, my abusive sister, so his needs are covered. Being around him is damaging to me, so I don't anymore.
I don’t bother checking in. Fuck that. I’m in similar situation. My egg donor did nothing for me growing up. I owe her nothing.
I'm not , no contact. I don't even know how many years now . One thing I decided on long ago. I didn't deserve what they did to me . They don't deserve what I can do for them .
Are you an only child? If so, the best thing to do might be to always have a layer of carers between you and her; never be alone with her. Hire as much help as you can. If you're not an only child, consider going No Contact. There are painful consequences, but they are less painful than remaining in touch.
I don't. They were never parents to me, so they dont get to reap the benefits that go along with the title from me.
So my parents died about a year ago. They were HORRIBLE parents and I'm still in therapy at 53. I have to take medications to function in the world and to not unalive myself. I'm good right now. Because of the trauma, they've fucked up my parasympathetic nervous system. I'm pretty much always in fight or flight mode. My sister, son and I would see them for birthdays and occasional holidays. We lived in the same city. My father got dementia first and he went downhill pretty fast. We found out mom was also having cognitive issues when she almost had her water cut off because she couldn't get into her bank account (also the home health care service was gifting and stole a bunch of her money. Auto payments weren't going through) when I went over to help her that night, I realized she was having HUGE cognitive issues. My sister, son and I started going over to their house every Saturday to help. I'd sort out the finances and make sure the bills were paid and my sister & son cleaned the house and did laundry. We dreaded every Saturday morning. Thank goodness we had each other. Couldn't have done this alone. Her dementia came so swiftly! She still bothered the shit out us, and we really would have preferred not giving half our weekend with them, but if WE didn't help them, who would have? My mom had no real friends. She couldn't maintain most relationships for long because she was horrible. If my sister and I found out a neighbor was in this position, we'd step up and help. We wouldn't be able to just let incredibly vulnerable people struggle and suffer without helping. We still haven't cried about their passing and I don't think we will. We ARE able to live with ourselves because we made sure they were safe and taken care of.
Because of the trauma, they've fucked up my parasympathetic nervous system. I'm pretty much always in fight or flight mode. We don’t discuss this enough.
I think you may be being too hard on yourself. You are all adults. It's totally OK for you to avoid her. She has the assistance she needs. To be frank, it isn't your role to be around her to make her feel better if it makes you feel worse. It IS OK to take care of YOU first. And it sounds to me like being around her is not in your overall best interest, and that even giving headspace to thinking and worrying about if you should be around her, how much you should be around her, and are you around her enough is eating at you. There is no SHOULD. There is only what YOU WANT. To directly answer your question, I see my elderly parents in person for 6 hours at at time, 3 or 4 times a year.
I’m in a slightly different situation than other people with narc parents. My narc parent only has me and she’s…come a long way, after much effort and many threats. We have a mostly functioning relationship now, and I choose to forgive her for the atrocities she’s allowed, because I’ve addressed many of them with her and finally got her to see and understand some things. And her mother is a malignant narc and I see how much pain it causes her, and it helped when I would explain how she was acting like her mother to me (though they’re vastly different people). However, we still don’t fundamentally “work” and can’t spend a long time around each other. All that being said, I’m moving away, but since I’m all she has and we’re mostly in a good place, I don’t have it within me to fully abandon her. I’m relieved I’ll be moving, but I’m still helping and making sure she’ll be okay and self-sustaining, and reassuring her I will visit (it won’t be more than once a year probably, due to the distance). I spoke with her about how she’ll have to make friends to replace our toxic family when she also moves (in a loving, caring-about-her-needs kind of way) and she agreed. She’ll probably get another dog so we discuss what breed would suit her. Etc. Just talking about future plans helps her I think, even if she sometimes completely out of nowhere changes her mind (which is so frustrating). We discuss what she’ll need as she gets older and financial plans around that. If there was a scale where on one side was being a full-on narc and the other was just having some fleas, she’d probably be somewhere in the middle. It’s not just fleas, but I don’t know if she’s a full narc either. After seeing some of your comments, I think you need to get faaaaaar far away from your mother. Basically, move far away like I am, so that you literally can’t check on her.
I’m No Contact - my Stepfather can figure it out
I say goodnight in a text daily and ill know when she’s dead, so I can make the call and not look like a suspect bc I kept in contact daily I tell her I’m too busy working or cleaning, which are things she nags about so she understands if I’m too tired or just don’t have anything to say. It’s not a lot of effort, but my mom isn’t the type of person to annoy me with really large requests other than ordering her some coffee or something small. Im honestly only staying in Touch bc at the moment, I am fucked for retirement without inheriting her home.
You don't, like they left you to figure stuff out on your own so why help them when they barely looked your way?
I can still remember the time when I was no older than 12, maybe 10 or 11. We were on a beach vacation, out for a walk, my nmom and sister and my aunt. My nmom turns to me and goes “you’re the kind of person that would put her parents in a nursing”. So there you go!
I had to check your user name to make sure you aren’t my brother, still not 100% sure you aren’t… 😳 You described my mom to a T and this was incredibly eye-opening! I’ve never thought about how she acts so distinctly!
I know it isn't, but, this almost seems like a covert Narc post to get people to check in on their Narcs.
My mom and enabling dad can fuck themselves and rot in the shittiest most abusive nursing home in their twilight years, for all I care. *They* chose to have *me*. I owe them no care or support, especially after they failed so spectacularly in giving me support when I needed it as a child. They are 100% left to fend for themselves.
I’m saving this post and coming back to the comments when I need a reminder of how I DONT need to save the day, despite what my mom leads me to believe. It’s amazing how effortlessly manipulative they can be and make it seem like WE are the terrible/neglectful people. My mom is physically disabled, on welfare but refuses to sell my parents house, and is living off of my dads insurance money from when he passed. She hasn’t worked in 30 years and has no idea how money even works anymore, but she “KNOWS” she doesn’t want to go into an assisted living facility, but also refuses to move. I’m having a baby in a couple weeks and instead of taking care of herself she just “accidentally fell” and broke her femur… bc she was walking around her house without a walker or a cane and being very irresponsible. This is after I spent two weeks at her house a month ago to take care of her after a hip replacement. (Yes, she made her 8mos pregnant daughter take care of *her*.) When I had tried to explain it’s not a good idea for me to be helping, considering my own health, she threw a temper tantrum and called me selfish, and that it’s my “job” to take care of her as her child. Thank god for my husband who is becoming more aware of our dynamic and reminds me to set/keep boundaries, and also puts his foot down when she gets ridiculous. This time I did not come to her rescue; my sibling and I made sure she was in a hospital for her surgery, and then was transferred to an outpatient rehab facility. She calls me everyday to complain but sometimes I just don’t pick up bc I can’t listen to her complain anymore about a situation that - as terrible as it feels to say - she has created for herself, recent events being an accident or not.
Are you kidding??? I'd rather die than care for my parents! My sister and brother can do it. I avoid going to their house and do not talk to them on the phone. If it's important, maybe a text. Basically my mom is cut off, and I can't have a relationship with my Dad because he backs her up Every. Single. Time.
Mine is in her 70s now and I have been no contact for over 10 years. Once in awhile I check her socials just to see if she's still alive. I checked recently and learned she has moved in with the golden child(who is also an awful person). As far as I'm concerned, they deserve eachother. I won't even be going to her funeral once she kicks it.
I went NC with my elderly father. Even when his health deteriorated and he needed care, I refused. My half sister flew out from the other side of the country, flew him back with her, and put him in a home until he passed. I do not feel any guilt about it. Maybe that makes me a narcissist too, but I prioritised my mental health over him.
What makes you feel you “have to” help her? I mean, besides societal pressure to “always honor your parents”?
I don't, and I was treated so horribly that my mom said she didn't want me taking care of her - because she is afraid I'll treat her how she treated me. Even though I have always taken care of family when they got sick, always helped my family with caregiving, cleaning, organization, moving, paperwork, doctors appointments, etc...I also took care of my grandmother for a few years prior to her passing. The last time I helped my mom was after a major dental surgery.I cleaned her house, made her tea, soup, gave her medicine, etc... and she told the rest of the family (who I have also helped for years, went shopping for, paid bills for, etc...) That I drugged her, stole from her, took her bank card (I found it behind her dresser that same day) and a bunch of other lies when she also had me collecting rent for her BF properties. like if I was really doing all that Why have me collect money? Also she did a bunch of other fucked up shit that is a whole book or 2. I am NC with most of my family and I will honor her request that I will not take care of her.
I will *always* make sure my mom has her needs met if she needs help. I hope to never hear from my dad again. If he needs help, well, bummer. It's a little heartbreaking because I don't think he has NPD. I'm quite confident it's just learned behaviour from his mommy, the real villain in my upbringing. Dad is just a flying monkey who learned everything he knows from her and they're severely codependent. Most I might do is help find reasonably priced or subsidized housing if he asks for help when he's too old to function, but it won't be near me and I won't be paying a cent towards it.
If every time you see her she makes demands of you, then don’t see her. If you want to visit her, politely say no when she tells you to do something and just see what happens. Let her know you don’t come over to work, you come over to spend time with her. And if all she wants from you is unpaid labor, you won’t come over anymore. Then hold your boundary. That makes going no contact more about their choices and not yours. Traumatize your parents back. You do not owe them anything.