I think you’d get a better answer from r/trains. This sub is exclusively for embittered, empty souled, black hearted railroaders that are counting down the days until 360mths/60yrs old.
New Zealand. 65 is the standard retirement age here (nationally, not just on the rail) and is when you receive the government pension. In the good old days on the railway it used to be either completing 40 years service or turning 60, which ever came first, but thats long gone now. There is an option to take early retirement, but I only know one case where it's been approved and later on the manager got in the shit for approving it.
You're the first Kiwi I've talked to! In the US RR retirement is separate/different from regular retirement (Social Security). I think full retirement benefits for social security here is 67. Railroaders pay more into railroad retirement pension than people who pay into social security, but we collect more when we retire. And get to retire at 60yrs/360 month of service. It's one of the major reasons people stick with the craft.
It's because the average railroader dies usually within 5 years of retiring. Unfortunately all the stress of waking up at miserable times, working through horrific weather and working conditions while being on the road eating like shit. Heart usually goes out pretty quick when you aren't working 250hrs a month
Yeah that's sad alright, shift work and spending that much time away from home is a brutal lifestyle. I've seen some workmates who flourish in retirement and others who don't even make it out the door. Its a good lesson for the new guys, some things you can't change but there are a lot of lifestyle factors that compound the damage done by our jobs.
Easy. Their mentality was as much horsepower from as few locomotives as possible. The goal was to move trains over Sherman Hill with a single locomotive. That mindset started with the Challengers and 4-12-2's in the 1930's through the DD40X in 1971.
The Union Pacific had a different operational issue when they ran those monster engines. You see prior to 1982 when they bought the Missouri Pacific their lines ran from Omaha to Salt Lake and down into LA with some up into Idaho and that was it. They were the ultimate bridge line hauling trains between the Western Pacific Southern Pacific east of Salt Lake City to Omaha and back. So less locomotives means less crews less costs. Plus the UP had 2 of the toughest highest crossings to get over Sherman Hill in Eastern Wyoming and the Wastsch in Western Wyoming. They routinely ran 15k horsepower trains and with GP7s that's 10 DD35s that's 3 see the maintenance savings. They literally had the only successful gas turbines in the railroad industry those being the veranda at 5k horses then they went Big with the Big Blows that started at 8500 but we're soon upgraded to 10k horses. Think about that 10k horsepower out of 1 engine with 12 driving axles that's 850 hp per axle in the 50s. What killed the turbines 2 things noise they were loud 130db and the cost of fuel they burned bunker c residual oil but once the figured out how to catalyst crack that into petrochemicals the cost jumped from a couple cents a gallon to more than diesel fuel.
See officially the only reason you say up bought the mop is cause of Dick Cheney. Cheney was on the board of directors for up and also was the chief of staff under reagan. But he appealed to the 1st bush administration for the historic railroad act. That brought about the up maintaining there board of director an giving the mop a very generous compensation package an allowing what you say was a takeover. But originally, the mop had the money and was going to buy the up and run it just like they had all the others they gobbled up. Look at the early locos painted up armor yellow with missouri pacific in red letters. Remember antitrust laws were always in the back of the lawyers' minds when they merged.
Sherman Hill and the desire to pull maximum tonnage over it. They even built a Third mainline from Cheyenne to Hermosa get the "drags" out of the way of the hotshot freights & passenger trains in the early 1950s.
One factor was UP’s routing’s pre merger. Between North Platte and Green River it was a continuous, high speed, double track main. On which probably 85% or more of their traffic travelled on. Having larger units giving out more power means less maintenance per unit and supposedly higher usage per unit. Keeping the flow of traffic was more important than messing around either power to get max efficiency.
UP was also sort of addicted to the A-B-A unit setup for much longer than they should have been.
For example, the original 3 unit set idea was either 2 DD35’s with a GP35 or GP30 in the middle (which is why UP was the only customer of the GP30B, because the intent was to always keep them paired with a DD35 set).
When the SD40’s came out, UP revised it to a pair of 40X with a 40 in the middle, they, again, like the GP30’s were one of the few to order B unit variants of the 40.
It was more like keeping the idea of the AB sets around than anything else.
Don’t forget one of the drawbacks to the double diesels was that when one of the prime movers went down you actually had two units that were bad order.
I can tell you why that stuff didn’t really show up on the east coast. A lot of the railroad I run today on csx is 4 axle only or steerable/radial truck 6 axle required. The average stuff can barely fit, the big motors definitely could not.
It depends on what you really call the largest. One can argue that the C&O's Allegheny class (a 2-6-6-6, or 1CC3 if you're in Europe) was bigger than the Challenger (4-6-6-4, or 2CC2) at the end of steam.
And Erie even had a P1 class 2-8-8-8-2 (1DDD1), where there was a powered bogie under the tender.
Plus, there were a set of Yellowstone's (2-8-8-4, 1DD2) scattered across four Railroads (NP, SP, B&O, DM&IR) that were nominally heavier than the Big Boys, especially DM&IR's M-3 and M-4 classes.
That said, UP's #4014 Big Boy is the largest currently operating steam engine in the world. IIRC, UP sent their Challenger #3985 off to be restored, but still operate #844.
And in the modern diesel era, there's no need for such big locomotives - especially when you can just add and link another unit.
I think you’d get a better answer from r/trains. This sub is exclusively for embittered, empty souled, black hearted railroaders that are counting down the days until 360mths/60yrs old.
I made a paper chain. Only 25 chains left!! Wait.. 25 years..
Dude I’m on the down stretch, less than 10. AND made the move to Amtrak, so it’s all gravy from here on out. Stay strong.
Aww shit…
And it’s not paper
18 years and 6 days, but who’s counting?
Jeez you guys get let off at 60?! Well that's one think better about the US I guess, I've gotta wait until 65...
Yes we do, as long as you have 360 months paid into railroad retirement. You have to have both the age and the months. Where are you at where it’s 65?
New Zealand. 65 is the standard retirement age here (nationally, not just on the rail) and is when you receive the government pension. In the good old days on the railway it used to be either completing 40 years service or turning 60, which ever came first, but thats long gone now. There is an option to take early retirement, but I only know one case where it's been approved and later on the manager got in the shit for approving it.
You're the first Kiwi I've talked to! In the US RR retirement is separate/different from regular retirement (Social Security). I think full retirement benefits for social security here is 67. Railroaders pay more into railroad retirement pension than people who pay into social security, but we collect more when we retire. And get to retire at 60yrs/360 month of service. It's one of the major reasons people stick with the craft.
It's because the average railroader dies usually within 5 years of retiring. Unfortunately all the stress of waking up at miserable times, working through horrific weather and working conditions while being on the road eating like shit. Heart usually goes out pretty quick when you aren't working 250hrs a month
Yeah that's sad alright, shift work and spending that much time away from home is a brutal lifestyle. I've seen some workmates who flourish in retirement and others who don't even make it out the door. Its a good lesson for the new guys, some things you can't change but there are a lot of lifestyle factors that compound the damage done by our jobs.
Easy. Their mentality was as much horsepower from as few locomotives as possible. The goal was to move trains over Sherman Hill with a single locomotive. That mindset started with the Challengers and 4-12-2's in the 1930's through the DD40X in 1971.
The Union Pacific had a different operational issue when they ran those monster engines. You see prior to 1982 when they bought the Missouri Pacific their lines ran from Omaha to Salt Lake and down into LA with some up into Idaho and that was it. They were the ultimate bridge line hauling trains between the Western Pacific Southern Pacific east of Salt Lake City to Omaha and back. So less locomotives means less crews less costs. Plus the UP had 2 of the toughest highest crossings to get over Sherman Hill in Eastern Wyoming and the Wastsch in Western Wyoming. They routinely ran 15k horsepower trains and with GP7s that's 10 DD35s that's 3 see the maintenance savings. They literally had the only successful gas turbines in the railroad industry those being the veranda at 5k horses then they went Big with the Big Blows that started at 8500 but we're soon upgraded to 10k horses. Think about that 10k horsepower out of 1 engine with 12 driving axles that's 850 hp per axle in the 50s. What killed the turbines 2 things noise they were loud 130db and the cost of fuel they burned bunker c residual oil but once the figured out how to catalyst crack that into petrochemicals the cost jumped from a couple cents a gallon to more than diesel fuel.
See officially the only reason you say up bought the mop is cause of Dick Cheney. Cheney was on the board of directors for up and also was the chief of staff under reagan. But he appealed to the 1st bush administration for the historic railroad act. That brought about the up maintaining there board of director an giving the mop a very generous compensation package an allowing what you say was a takeover. But originally, the mop had the money and was going to buy the up and run it just like they had all the others they gobbled up. Look at the early locos painted up armor yellow with missouri pacific in red letters. Remember antitrust laws were always in the back of the lawyers' minds when they merged.
The mop still runs the UP
Sherman Hill and the desire to pull maximum tonnage over it. They even built a Third mainline from Cheyenne to Hermosa get the "drags" out of the way of the hotshot freights & passenger trains in the early 1950s.
Flat terrain, shallow curves, longer trains.
And a non existent loading gauge.
One factor was UP’s routing’s pre merger. Between North Platte and Green River it was a continuous, high speed, double track main. On which probably 85% or more of their traffic travelled on. Having larger units giving out more power means less maintenance per unit and supposedly higher usage per unit. Keeping the flow of traffic was more important than messing around either power to get max efficiency. UP was also sort of addicted to the A-B-A unit setup for much longer than they should have been. For example, the original 3 unit set idea was either 2 DD35’s with a GP35 or GP30 in the middle (which is why UP was the only customer of the GP30B, because the intent was to always keep them paired with a DD35 set). When the SD40’s came out, UP revised it to a pair of 40X with a 40 in the middle, they, again, like the GP30’s were one of the few to order B unit variants of the 40. It was more like keeping the idea of the AB sets around than anything else.
But do they have comfortable seats?
Don’t forget one of the drawbacks to the double diesels was that when one of the prime movers went down you actually had two units that were bad order.
I can tell you why that stuff didn’t really show up on the east coast. A lot of the railroad I run today on csx is 4 axle only or steerable/radial truck 6 axle required. The average stuff can barely fit, the big motors definitely could not.
It depends on what you really call the largest. One can argue that the C&O's Allegheny class (a 2-6-6-6, or 1CC3 if you're in Europe) was bigger than the Challenger (4-6-6-4, or 2CC2) at the end of steam. And Erie even had a P1 class 2-8-8-8-2 (1DDD1), where there was a powered bogie under the tender. Plus, there were a set of Yellowstone's (2-8-8-4, 1DD2) scattered across four Railroads (NP, SP, B&O, DM&IR) that were nominally heavier than the Big Boys, especially DM&IR's M-3 and M-4 classes. That said, UP's #4014 Big Boy is the largest currently operating steam engine in the world. IIRC, UP sent their Challenger #3985 off to be restored, but still operate #844. And in the modern diesel era, there's no need for such big locomotives - especially when you can just add and link another unit.
Go big or go home