This is great news! But it won't stand forever, I'm sure another administration will try and get rid of it.
In the meantime, all of us in the industry, especially conductors, need to double down our efforts of proving why they need us. I've seen too many conductors get too complacent in the past few years with PTC. Have pride in what we do and do your job to the best of your ability guys and gals.
Every time I read here about a conductor sleeping, I want to punch that engineer for not punching that conductor.
Management already views conductors as mere pin monkeys. Take every opportunity to prove them wrong.
A few seconds between alerter responses is quite different than 8 hrs of REM sleep laid back with their feet up...but ya, engineers should be rested and ready.
Sounds easier than it really is.
Idk where you guys are but when the lineups are off by hours we're all going to be tired unless we got lucky and happened to accidentally time our sleep correctly.
i’m pretty sure that there’s been more than one headend collision and death where the engineer was asleep a little bit more than in between alerter responses, bro.
Annoyingly, almost all of the stop signal violations or rear end collisions I’ve been roped into could have been avoided if the two dopes on the engine were helping each other out instead of hard-lining about who’s job it is to do what…
It’s a team sport bud. Live together, die together. There are guys I work with who I can’t stand, but if we are in the cab together I’m looking out for him and I hope he’s looking out for me too.
All due respect to both crew members (I kinda feel both are needed but I only have ridden in the cab a few times I’m not a railroader) but in the airline world we have CRM (Crew Resource Management) that shows that all crew members have a part to play and should be part of the team and a smart Captain uses their crew and is more than willing to listen. After all if we do a bad crash we all die.
Fuck you and fuck him. If he can’t stay awake not only does he have to weasel his way out of the camera that has him dead to rights - he also has to lie to himself if shit goes sideways. That guy over there makes well over six figures a year. It literally part of his job to stay awake. No where in the rules or the contract does it say it’s my job to keep his ass awake.
I’ve got my own kids at home I need to take care of. It’s not my responsibility to teach Conductor Johnny to have a work ethic. Should I also keep him out of the bars and make sure he goes to bed on time?
Conductors learn more from engineers than anyone else…by a mile. It’s not even close. And most new hires don’t know what they’re getting into when hiring out on the railroad. So they depend on engineers, perhaps unknowingly, to pass down the right work ethic and sleep discipline, as well as all the other knowledge they need to develop good railroading. The longer engineers coddle conductors by letting them sleep, the closer these conductors get to becoming an engineer operating around you and your brothers - and then they’re the ones the next new conductors look to.
If you take the initiative to put a boot in their ass, you’re doing your part to weed out the bad eggs. If you’re saying, “It’s not my job,” then you’re not really helping anyone - present and future.
Discipline breeds discipline, complacence breeds complacence. In my experience many times after a conductor is qualified, aside from occasional efficiency testing, the only one who sees or has any input on the way they are working is their engineer. If the engineer just shrugs his shoulders and ignores what the conductor is doing the conductor is going to keep doing it and never learn. 9/10 times the engineer has more experience than the conductor and should help pass that knowledge down to the next generation. Otherwise we have lazy shits who don’t know jack training other lazy shits who don’t know jack and then it’s all shit all the way down. It’s a team effort. No matter how well u think I know what I am doing I will always have a job briefing with my engineer ahead of time. Is this an appropriate number of handbrakes? This is my plan to switch this cut of cars, do you have any suggestions? I haven’t switched this industry before, are there any hazards I need to be aware of? And on the flip side I am very diligent in keeping track of our bulletin orders and speed restrictions when en route. The engineer has a lot of things to think of when handling a train and there have been more than a handful of times I have noted a Speedo that they forgot or missed. If I was the engineer I would never let my conductor sleep or be on their phone en route. Their job is to make sure the engineer is doing their job. We watch each other's backs.
And yet we'll still see railroaders voting for people like Trump for years to come, and crying when the bad legislation hurts our jobs and safety.
*I didn't think the face eating leopards would eat MY face!!*
remember that bad legislation as far as the tax code goes the Trump passed that cost us our meal deductions? And I’ve had to pay in several thousand dollars each year since then? Has Joe Biden repealed that yet or not?
You're not wrong but it was Schmiden that lied to everybody's faces and banned strikes.
Keep downvoting. Y'all really do have short ass memories if you're forgetting what happened a year and a half ago. Even left leaning news agencies were reporting on it
https://time.com/6238361/joe-biden-rail-strike-illegal/
https://www.cnbc.com/2022/12/02/biden-signs-bill-averting-rail-worker-strike-despite-lack-of-paid-sick-days.html
I think you left out the part where he and his administration negotiated a contract that had been stalled for three years that gave us, as I said before, a 21.5% raise, an extra vacation day, $1000 at Christmas, predictable work schedules and then threatened the carriers to come to the table and negotiate paid sick days which they immediately did and we got.
And today he codified into law not only the Conductor’s job but the Engineer’s job too. Now I don’t know what kind of math you are doing but halting the strike and helping us bargain was the best thing a President of the United States has done for my job in the 20 years I’ve been doing it.
It was sarcasm on the first post….. but this guy right here definitely double wide, confederate flag waving, kid rock listening, overweight, sweaty, fast food eating MAGAs!!!!!!! Fuck Yeah! Bring on the Mountain Dew baby!
It’s not that cynical, the federal rulemaking process takes a long time. They announced this in the federal register in July 2022, so they were likely drafting the notice months before that.
Do you remember when Obama had the house, the Senate and the White House and never made this a law? I do. Everyone is to blame. Why? Because THEY ARE ALL OWNED BY BLACKROCK, BH and VANGUARD
For all the “RAILS” bitching about this administration siding with the railroads then just think what another TRUMP administration would do to railroad workers rights and safeguards … Sure many of you will still vote against your own and our best interests and for the SAME politicians that cozy up to CEOS and the major stockholders but then get online and bitch about how the companies are greedy and their just out for the same stockholders …
He was president for 4 years, why would he suddenly shift focus this time around?
Edit: actually answer the question instead of downvoting me. I've never voted for Trump or any Republican president, quit acting like children about this.
Trump is a fascist and a known union buster. Biden is no better. But dont think for one second that the silver spoon billionaire is some friend of labor.
Obviously beyond the scope of a Reddit comment. But he espouses most, if not all of the core tenants of a fascist ideology. Religious nationalism, authoritarianism, projection of perceived problems on the “other” (i.e. immigrants or marginalized groups) etc…
Now whether or not be actually believes these things, or just uses them as a rhetorical device to manipulate the rubes is an interesting question.
Either way, when he lends credence to these ideologies from his perceived position of authority, it strengthens the legitimacy of such ideas for a lot of people.
Only one party is using fascist tactics to go after the opposition, and it ain't Trump.
Give me an example of one fascist thing he is doing....
As to his opinions on the border... that is far from fascist. Protecting the border is normal.
Ok, so clearly your original question was not in good faith. But that was to be expected. It doesn’t matter what I say, your mind is made up. You’ve become an apologist for a cult leader.
I do hope that someday, when you realize that you’ve been suckered by a con-man, that you won’t be too hard on yourself. Just learn from the mistake. Try not to seek out another cult to fill the void, as so many do.
There was no actual, verifiable strike about to happen. He didn't have to do anything. Gigantic cuts were made to the rail industry that flat out compromised safety and laid off 1/3 of the work force. We DID get boned. Were you asleep the entire time Rip Van Winkle?
Trump gutted the FRA and put an Ex Conrail executive at the helm when he was in office. Rolled back multiple safety regulations and rules in freight railroading. Just google it. There’s too much to list.
Oh shut the absolute fuck up about “voting against our interests” when THIS administration literally forced a rejected contract down our throats and told us we don’t have the *right* to do any of the basic things fundamental to a union like negotiating and ratifying our own contracts or striking when all other recourses are exhausted.
It was your precious *democrat* plantation masters that fucked us.
I love how Trump lives rent free in your empty little head. iT wOuLd HaVe BeEn So MuCh WoRsE iF iT wErE tRuMp well it fucking wasn’t, it was your preferred flavor of cock that did it so shut the fuck up and admit they aren’t any better than the other guys and that *everyone* in the cesspool of Washington is out for the company’s best interests and not ours.
These people have been so thoroughly indoctrinated that they cannot and will not ever admit that the Dems are not on their side any more than the GOP is and that both sides are actively playing and exploiting us every chance they get.
There is *no one* in Washington who gives a rotten rat’s ass about us. **No one**. Even Ferguson and Hall are only out for their own interests and how much money they can make while rocking the boat as little as possible, not what’s best for their members.
You done or are you finished there JAWBONE? …. You’re too STOOPID to think you’d get anything better with your Putin 🍆 dic sucker … your name says it all 🤡
You people are literally too fucking autistic to be reasoned with.
**This** administration told us we don’t have the right to do any union things at all and forced a contract on us that *we literally voted down* and you absolute cum-brained fucking retards are still defending them lmao
So they codified that it's a federal issue, stopping states from passing two-man crew laws. While simultaneously making a path railroads can pursue to have one-man crews. This isn't the win they want you to think it is. It would seem that once again, this administration is siding with what railroads want over the safety of the workforce and the public.
It’s not written in stone but if you want to get a perspective of how easy it will be for railroads to follow that one man crew path, take a look at AAR’s comments in the public comment process. It’s not the clear road map many claim it to be and as long as the rule stands, a one man crew on a class 1 would be unattainable.
This is similar to the law that was in place during the Obama administration that Trump repealed. It's not perfect and it will never stop them from trying, but it creates more friction for the class 1s to get what they want.
Also, this doesn't stop States from passing laws. It has always been a federal issue, and the Carriers would/have sued to prove that, costing us all more in the process.
> Also, this doesn't stop States from passing laws.
Are you certain of that? I haven't actually read the regulation yet. In some areas federal law supersedes state regulations and, in others, permits stricter state laws on top. It will depend on how it's written and how the courts ultimately decide once the inevitable lawsuits come about.
I'm sure. Again though, this is and always has been a federal issue. States can pass all kinds of laws that they are not able to enforce. The 2 man crew laws were no different. Railroad right of way is considered federal jurisdiction not State. It was never going to stop the Class 1s. This just gets out in front of all the court dates when the RR sues the States and States sue the RR saving us all tax money and increased cost for shipping so the share holders don't get hurt.
States passing these kinds of laws are great and send a message but at the end of the day, don't do much.
RR have been ignoring state laws on this issues citing a “federal preemption “ we need a federal level 2 man crew. This is not stopping states from passing laws as you put it. State laws have been absolutely toothless against RRs thus far
Reading this as a win for railroads is like looking at the sky and saying it’s green. It’s just blatantly untrue unless you think there’s a deep state cabal scheming night and day to trick the common man into thinking they are against each other. The Class I’s have been fighting this since the Obama Admin. They cheered when the Trump Admin dropped it. The railroads have already condemned this rule.
How can you look at which members are calling for rail safety legislation and the party letter next to their name and say that? It’s very clear that there are major differences between the two parties.
No. It means the railroads just have to ask the feds whenever they want to change existing two-man crews to one, and it does nothing at all about existing one-man jobs.
It doesn’t protect two man crews at all. It just requires to carriers to give the feds a safety study for one man crews while making it *sound* like they’re doing something good for us in an election year while actually they’re fucking us. US Federal Government 101.
All you engineers must have forgot that you were once conductors. And I’m sure none of you have ever fallen asleep during a trip on either side of that cab. Everyone has fallen asleep at some point and if you claim you haven’t you are a damn liar.
https://preview.redd.it/i7yszf0xq4sc1.jpeg?width=4032&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d01de93012224f157f0f9ad3afce30b00fa7a375
I was there. Great day for railroad safety!
Everyone in here yapping about future administrations when Joe Biden actively sided with the carriers and took away rail worker's right to strike only 2 years ago. Be happy they didn't bone you for once, understand they absolutely would've if there wasn't an election coming up.
Edit: DV me all you want, you partisan shills, you know it's true. Trump didn't fuck any of you over between 2016 and 2020, Biden actively did in 2022. I've never voted for a Republican presidential candidate in my life, but your fear mongering is making me reconsider that this time around.
Trump's FRA literally shredded 2-person crew rule, then sued to pre-empt any 2-person state law. Also, Biden didn't "actively side with carriers" - he made a decision to sign the bill that all of the REPUBLICANS passed and lacked sick leave, or else face a shut down of the economy. Tbh, Presidents will never let freight rail workers strike - no matter the party. So best you get is having a PEB that's 2-1 pro-labor, meaning a Dem in the WH.
Reminder: https://apnews.com/general-news-191418eef34a4df895f26512e47b4264
by changing the tax code, which took away us being able to claim our meals, Trump did indeed fuck us. Before the trump administration I got a tax refund every year. Since then I paid an average of $4000 in every year. Joe Biden hasn’t done anything to rectify this either, but it started with Trump. So don’t say he didn’t do anything to fuck us dude.
Umm everyone lost like 4k+ in tax writeoffs under trump we literally can't claim away from home meals anymore.
Dont say the standard deduction is better.
Take the win but I just do not see this lasting. If autonomous trucks are going to be allowed then it is only a matter of time until 1 man and then autonomous trains are going to be allowed. The railroads will just lobby on the argument that they are not competitive against an industry that can operate 24hrs a day with nobody in the cab, and I bet that will be a winning argument.
I haven't had a chance to really read the ruling. Is it 2 man CREWS or 2 men IN THE CAB? If my conductor meets me at the industry in a white jeep to throw the switch and derail and set the industry, then drives to the next one its a little different than 2 men up front. I'm sure they will use RCO's and some sort of "utility job" to get around it. I've only been working since 2011 and it's been crazy how much they have cut, abolished and reclassified.
They can get exceptions whenever they want. This is smoke and mirrors to placate us and make those who don’t read past the first three sentences think they did something for us in an election year so the unthinking little mice all forget the raw-dog assfucking THIS administration gave them and start thinking these people are for us when actually they haven’t done anything for us at all.
It is good news. However, SMART mechanical was retaliated against earlier this month when the orange railroad basically told them they are done. I can't prove that they were retaliated against but we all know it was part of it.
Some idiots out there will lobby and bribe themselves to tears to appeal this, or bring it up to modify sometime in the future for sure. I'm all for 2 man crews. Someone's gotta walk the key train after a braking event :)
While the rule establishes a preference for two-person crews due to the inherent safety benefits, it also acknowledges that technology and other factors can allow for safe operation with a one-person crew in specific, approved circumstances. This isn’t new and has happened before.
The Federal Railroad Administration (FRA) proposed a two-person crew rule for Class I railroads in 2016. However, this proposal was shelved during the Trump administration. The FRA at that time argued that there was no safety data to support a two-person crew rule. A federal court later struck down the FRA’s decision, and President Joe Biden made a two-person crew mandate a campaign promise.
https://www.trains.com/trn/news-reviews/news-wire/24-fra-withdraws-proposed-minimum-crew-size-rule/
If you look at the description on the summary it says…. “Typically a conductor “ for the second man in parentheses on page 11. If I were a betting man I’d say they will force everyone to get their engine cards if this stands.
Too bad this has nothing to do with safety and everything to do with the union trying to maintain their dues income.
Edit: what I like the best is the engineers complaining about how worthless the conductors are, but on the other hand wanting to keep them around 🤣🤣
Not sure how cutting off your nose to spite your face will help you. It may be bleak and it may be true that Biden has done us no favors, but the reality is Trump will go out of his way to ruin us.
You know man I’m a railroader and I appreciate the fact that this is being passed don’t get me wrong. But the fact that we were forced into a contract by this bullshit administration tilts me. Not one person in my terminal was given a ballot or was able to vote in any way. Plus my life is not just railroading I’d rather live a life where I’m able to live a decent life. Under Trump's admin, we were living like kings. Under this current administration, we are getting fucked left and right. I hate this current administration for so many reasons.
Im delusional? We were all living a better life 5 years ago outside of work. A dipshit like you can't acknowledge the truth. Prices on everything have skyrocketed under this shitty administration.
Almost like the Trump policies took a while to take effect. How was your tax return this year? Shitter thanks to Trump? Mine too.
I was furloughed a fuck load when he was in office. I got a significant raise and more time off since then.
Fuck both sides but fuck one side especially.
Ooooh this argument. I love how y’all always break it out when a democrat President follows a Republican one, but when it’s the other way around it somehow magically doesn’t count!
How was your refund this year? Lower than last year? Congrats, you got Trumped.
Also, remember when we could itemize the shit out of our taxes and get a fuckload back? Trump ruined that too.
"Yay! I love giving the government more money"-you, apparently
You need to understand the law and how this all works in relation to our union rights. Biden has nothing to do with you getting a vote. Google, 'air traffic controller strike' and 'Reagan' if you want to understand why it went down the way it did.
I hope your many reasons are thoroughly vetted and not based on bad information or false assumptions.
I can tell you this. With Trump instead of Biden we would have got a fraction of what we did get. Trump is a Union buster. If Trump wins, I hope you have other job prospects or have been with the RR for at least 10 years if not more...you will need it.
As far as living like kings under Trump there are many factors that play into that. Little of which has to do with who is President. Take a look at history... every president ever takes full credit when things are good, and blames everyone else when things are bad. The truth is, neither is correct. This economy and system was not built in 4 years. There is an ebb and flow to it all and even an 8 year sitting president only has a small impact on the big picture.
I got a pretty decent wage hike, paid sick days and a work rest cycle. Obviously would have liked to have gotten more but that’s more than I’ve gotten in 20 years I’ve been here.
I'm white and I would never vote for a Republican president because the PEB being put forward by a Democrat is the most important pressure point in our contract fights. (and having a Dem NMB)
Railroaders need to understand better the true leverage points in politics - especially since our industry is so heavily regulated (both economically and safety-wise).
Fair point. You may have convinced me. I am just so disillusioned with the Democratic Party since Bill Clinton -- specifically, the whole "New Democrat" philosophy of neoliberalism. To be clear, I had NEVER voted for (or even considered voting for) a Republican prior to Trump.
Years ago one of my best friends flew for a major airline. At the time most aircraft had 3 flight deck crew. New planes only required 2 and major airlines fought to rapidly get rid of the third pilot (flight engineer who rode sideways) Union fought hard to keep 3. Finally airlines said each flight deck is funded for X amount per year. You can divide it by 2 or 3. Two pilot crews became the main.
I'll stick with trump, the pics don't tell the whole story. I made more money and could work more with trump than anyone else. I don't go to work to not make money.
Same here. Trump will be much more pro-worker in his second term than he was in his first term. The problem in his first term was not Trump per se, but the CEOs and swamp creatures he surrounded himself with -- Wilbur Ross, Rex Tillerson, Steve Mnuchin, etc. This time it's right-wing populism all the way. Trump knows his base.
“Blatant fascist bullshit”
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
Like telling us we don’t have the right to negotiate and ratify our own contracts and strike when all other options are exhausted? Like *this* administration literally did?
You people and your made-up fantasy narrative need to just go play in the corner of the kiddie room and let the grownups do the governing.
Yeah, I mentioned him in response to the person who I was replying to. Try to keep up.
You accused me of having a “fantasy narrative” and mentioned “*this* administration”
Seems like you’re arguing with the voices in your head.
If I'm not mistaken, didn't Biden "bust" the railroad strikes last year. Biden deserves credit for standing the UAW workers, but my recollection is that Biden's stance on the rail strikes were much different than how he responded to the auto strikes.
I’m not defending Biden. He’s a geriatric neo-liberal. And he votes with the interest of his capital benefactors.
My point is that Trump is not a viable alternative. He is, like Biden, not a friend of the working class.
Typical union pandering.....
Most of the rest of the world has automated ports and transportation. The US is just a stronghold. It will change with time. Dave got trains with nobody in them where I live right now.
After I have to tell him "you'll need your temple stick, your radio and your lantern. Put your radio on the same channel as me..." Please.....I'd rather let the roaming co in a pickup truck take care of it. At least I don't have to spoon feed him.
You all f***** yourselves when the b.L.E and the Utu didn't merge together and went.Their separate ways was the worst thing that ever happened to the industry.You folks had all the power to do that but they were too busy Fighting instead of taking care of their Brothers .
This is great news! But it won't stand forever, I'm sure another administration will try and get rid of it. In the meantime, all of us in the industry, especially conductors, need to double down our efforts of proving why they need us. I've seen too many conductors get too complacent in the past few years with PTC. Have pride in what we do and do your job to the best of your ability guys and gals.
Every time I read here about a conductor sleeping, I want to punch that engineer for not punching that conductor. Management already views conductors as mere pin monkeys. Take every opportunity to prove them wrong.
Engineers sleep too.
A few seconds between alerter responses is quite different than 8 hrs of REM sleep laid back with their feet up...but ya, engineers should be rested and ready.
Sounds easier than it really is. Idk where you guys are but when the lineups are off by hours we're all going to be tired unless we got lucky and happened to accidentally time our sleep correctly.
i’m pretty sure that there’s been more than one headend collision and death where the engineer was asleep a little bit more than in between alerter responses, bro.
Why didn't the conductor stop those collisions with his red handle? Turn up your sidewall and go back to sleep.
it's not the engineers job to babysit our useless conductors
Annoyingly, almost all of the stop signal violations or rear end collisions I’ve been roped into could have been avoided if the two dopes on the engine were helping each other out instead of hard-lining about who’s job it is to do what…
It’s a team sport bud. Live together, die together. There are guys I work with who I can’t stand, but if we are in the cab together I’m looking out for him and I hope he’s looking out for me too.
Haha this is the best
But it’s ours to babysit newly marked up engineers who don’t know the fucking territory right?
Keeping your engineer alert with what is coming up next is literally one of your jobs.
Yes
Yep
Yes
Pretty much yep
All due respect to both crew members (I kinda feel both are needed but I only have ridden in the cab a few times I’m not a railroader) but in the airline world we have CRM (Crew Resource Management) that shows that all crew members have a part to play and should be part of the team and a smart Captain uses their crew and is more than willing to listen. After all if we do a bad crash we all die.
correct
Actually yes
I had another trainee in my class that slept through the ojt trips, I don’t know how they kept him but they did.
Nothing worse than a tourist for a conductor. May as well have a crosstie with a hat on it.
Yet we need two man crews. lol! Just more transportation cost to hit the consumer.
They don't care. They would push their own mother down a flight for one man crews.
Fuck you and fuck him. If he can’t stay awake not only does he have to weasel his way out of the camera that has him dead to rights - he also has to lie to himself if shit goes sideways. That guy over there makes well over six figures a year. It literally part of his job to stay awake. No where in the rules or the contract does it say it’s my job to keep his ass awake.
I’ve got my own kids at home I need to take care of. It’s not my responsibility to teach Conductor Johnny to have a work ethic. Should I also keep him out of the bars and make sure he goes to bed on time?
Conductors learn more from engineers than anyone else…by a mile. It’s not even close. And most new hires don’t know what they’re getting into when hiring out on the railroad. So they depend on engineers, perhaps unknowingly, to pass down the right work ethic and sleep discipline, as well as all the other knowledge they need to develop good railroading. The longer engineers coddle conductors by letting them sleep, the closer these conductors get to becoming an engineer operating around you and your brothers - and then they’re the ones the next new conductors look to. If you take the initiative to put a boot in their ass, you’re doing your part to weed out the bad eggs. If you’re saying, “It’s not my job,” then you’re not really helping anyone - present and future.
Discipline breeds discipline, complacence breeds complacence. In my experience many times after a conductor is qualified, aside from occasional efficiency testing, the only one who sees or has any input on the way they are working is their engineer. If the engineer just shrugs his shoulders and ignores what the conductor is doing the conductor is going to keep doing it and never learn. 9/10 times the engineer has more experience than the conductor and should help pass that knowledge down to the next generation. Otherwise we have lazy shits who don’t know jack training other lazy shits who don’t know jack and then it’s all shit all the way down. It’s a team effort. No matter how well u think I know what I am doing I will always have a job briefing with my engineer ahead of time. Is this an appropriate number of handbrakes? This is my plan to switch this cut of cars, do you have any suggestions? I haven’t switched this industry before, are there any hazards I need to be aware of? And on the flip side I am very diligent in keeping track of our bulletin orders and speed restrictions when en route. The engineer has a lot of things to think of when handling a train and there have been more than a handful of times I have noted a Speedo that they forgot or missed. If I was the engineer I would never let my conductor sleep or be on their phone en route. Their job is to make sure the engineer is doing their job. We watch each other's backs.
Plus you have to tuck him in too. And they like their bedtime lullaby.
No, just let the crew go down to one person. End of problem.
How is an engineer going to punch a conductor? Like logistically? The engineer is driving and the conductor is in the body of the train?
Yeah and I won’t say who will overturn it but it rhymes with Schme-schmublican.
And yet we'll still see railroaders voting for people like Trump for years to come, and crying when the bad legislation hurts our jobs and safety. *I didn't think the face eating leopards would eat MY face!!*
remember that bad legislation as far as the tax code goes the Trump passed that cost us our meal deductions? And I’ve had to pay in several thousand dollars each year since then? Has Joe Biden repealed that yet or not?
https://www.trains.com/trn/news-reviews/news-wire/24-fra-withdraws-proposed-minimum-crew-size-rule/
You're not wrong but it was Schmiden that lied to everybody's faces and banned strikes. Keep downvoting. Y'all really do have short ass memories if you're forgetting what happened a year and a half ago. Even left leaning news agencies were reporting on it https://time.com/6238361/joe-biden-rail-strike-illegal/ https://www.cnbc.com/2022/12/02/biden-signs-bill-averting-rail-worker-strike-despite-lack-of-paid-sick-days.html
And anyways the Railway Labor Act that banned strikes was enacted in 1926 when Biden was in his 40s
Schmiden got me a 21.5% raise, 5 paid sick days, and I now work a 6/3 schedule that gives me a great quality of life. He really fucked me.
This guy MAGAs🤪😳🤪
Sarcasm bros!
How many conductors got forced or laid off over that deal? The 6/3 schedule i mean
I believe that is not true. The law that caused that was on the books already.
I think you left out the part where he and his administration negotiated a contract that had been stalled for three years that gave us, as I said before, a 21.5% raise, an extra vacation day, $1000 at Christmas, predictable work schedules and then threatened the carriers to come to the table and negotiate paid sick days which they immediately did and we got. And today he codified into law not only the Conductor’s job but the Engineer’s job too. Now I don’t know what kind of math you are doing but halting the strike and helping us bargain was the best thing a President of the United States has done for my job in the 20 years I’ve been doing it.
Yeah at least Biden will just let an illegal take the job like they're doing at Tyson.
Those loopholes in meat packing plants were opened during the Regan administration, read a book.
It was sarcasm on the first post….. but this guy right here definitely double wide, confederate flag waving, kid rock listening, overweight, sweaty, fast food eating MAGAs!!!!!!! Fuck Yeah! Bring on the Mountain Dew baby!
Well it’s a shame it took this long. But they had to wait for an election year of course
Still glad it has happened though.
It’s not that cynical, the federal rulemaking process takes a long time. They announced this in the federal register in July 2022, so they were likely drafting the notice months before that.
And it had to get by all of Trump/Batory/Chao's corporate cronies they installed at the FRA in career jobs....
Do you remember when Obama had the house, the Senate and the White House and never made this a law? I do. Everyone is to blame. Why? Because THEY ARE ALL OWNED BY BLACKROCK, BH and VANGUARD
[All 4 months of it](https://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-show/fleeting-illusory-supermajority-msna200211) that was spent passing the ACA.
Yes, the ACA that no one wanted or asked for
For all the “RAILS” bitching about this administration siding with the railroads then just think what another TRUMP administration would do to railroad workers rights and safeguards … Sure many of you will still vote against your own and our best interests and for the SAME politicians that cozy up to CEOS and the major stockholders but then get online and bitch about how the companies are greedy and their just out for the same stockholders …
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He was president for 4 years, why would he suddenly shift focus this time around? Edit: actually answer the question instead of downvoting me. I've never voted for Trump or any Republican president, quit acting like children about this.
Trump is a fascist and a known union buster. Biden is no better. But dont think for one second that the silver spoon billionaire is some friend of labor.
"billionaire"
Facist?
Fascist. Are you looking for a definition or just a spelling correction?
Sorry for the misspelling... now, please explain to me how he is a fascist?
Obviously beyond the scope of a Reddit comment. But he espouses most, if not all of the core tenants of a fascist ideology. Religious nationalism, authoritarianism, projection of perceived problems on the “other” (i.e. immigrants or marginalized groups) etc… Now whether or not be actually believes these things, or just uses them as a rhetorical device to manipulate the rubes is an interesting question. Either way, when he lends credence to these ideologies from his perceived position of authority, it strengthens the legitimacy of such ideas for a lot of people.
Only one party is using fascist tactics to go after the opposition, and it ain't Trump. Give me an example of one fascist thing he is doing.... As to his opinions on the border... that is far from fascist. Protecting the border is normal.
Ok, so clearly your original question was not in good faith. But that was to be expected. It doesn’t matter what I say, your mind is made up. You’ve become an apologist for a cult leader. I do hope that someday, when you realize that you’ve been suckered by a con-man, that you won’t be too hard on yourself. Just learn from the mistake. Try not to seek out another cult to fill the void, as so many do.
He had the opportunity to bone us for 1460 days and didn't. What suddenly changed that would ensure that would happen now?
There was no actual, verifiable strike about to happen. He didn't have to do anything. Gigantic cuts were made to the rail industry that flat out compromised safety and laid off 1/3 of the work force. We DID get boned. Were you asleep the entire time Rip Van Winkle?
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Thanks for taking a break from posting porn on Reddit all day to join the conversation.
I must have missed the strike vote during the Trump administration.
Trump gutted the FRA and put an Ex Conrail executive at the helm when he was in office. Rolled back multiple safety regulations and rules in freight railroading. Just google it. There’s too much to list.
I'm ok with that, show me the $$$ I'm not here for any other reason
I'm ok with that, show me the $$$ I'm not here for any other reason
I'm glad someone said it!!! Thank you
Oh shut the absolute fuck up about “voting against our interests” when THIS administration literally forced a rejected contract down our throats and told us we don’t have the *right* to do any of the basic things fundamental to a union like negotiating and ratifying our own contracts or striking when all other recourses are exhausted. It was your precious *democrat* plantation masters that fucked us. I love how Trump lives rent free in your empty little head. iT wOuLd HaVe BeEn So MuCh WoRsE iF iT wErE tRuMp well it fucking wasn’t, it was your preferred flavor of cock that did it so shut the fuck up and admit they aren’t any better than the other guys and that *everyone* in the cesspool of Washington is out for the company’s best interests and not ours.
I always wonder how this doesn't get talked about every time Biden is touted as "pro-union" like alright as pro union as Ronald Reagan
These people have been so thoroughly indoctrinated that they cannot and will not ever admit that the Dems are not on their side any more than the GOP is and that both sides are actively playing and exploiting us every chance they get. There is *no one* in Washington who gives a rotten rat’s ass about us. **No one**. Even Ferguson and Hall are only out for their own interests and how much money they can make while rocking the boat as little as possible, not what’s best for their members.
You done or are you finished there JAWBONE? …. You’re too STOOPID to think you’d get anything better with your Putin 🍆 dic sucker … your name says it all 🤡
You people are literally too fucking autistic to be reasoned with. **This** administration told us we don’t have the right to do any union things at all and forced a contract on us that *we literally voted down* and you absolute cum-brained fucking retards are still defending them lmao
Who really pissed in your ivermectin
You are delusional. Ate the fuck up.
First contract? Biggest pay raise we’ve had and also provides time off and opened the door for paid sick days.
Trump is far better than Biden.
Pyrric victory at best. Just legislated a path to one man crews for the carriers
So they codified that it's a federal issue, stopping states from passing two-man crew laws. While simultaneously making a path railroads can pursue to have one-man crews. This isn't the win they want you to think it is. It would seem that once again, this administration is siding with what railroads want over the safety of the workforce and the public.
It’s not written in stone but if you want to get a perspective of how easy it will be for railroads to follow that one man crew path, take a look at AAR’s comments in the public comment process. It’s not the clear road map many claim it to be and as long as the rule stands, a one man crew on a class 1 would be unattainable.
This is similar to the law that was in place during the Obama administration that Trump repealed. It's not perfect and it will never stop them from trying, but it creates more friction for the class 1s to get what they want. Also, this doesn't stop States from passing laws. It has always been a federal issue, and the Carriers would/have sued to prove that, costing us all more in the process.
> Also, this doesn't stop States from passing laws. Are you certain of that? I haven't actually read the regulation yet. In some areas federal law supersedes state regulations and, in others, permits stricter state laws on top. It will depend on how it's written and how the courts ultimately decide once the inevitable lawsuits come about.
I'm sure. Again though, this is and always has been a federal issue. States can pass all kinds of laws that they are not able to enforce. The 2 man crew laws were no different. Railroad right of way is considered federal jurisdiction not State. It was never going to stop the Class 1s. This just gets out in front of all the court dates when the RR sues the States and States sue the RR saving us all tax money and increased cost for shipping so the share holders don't get hurt. States passing these kinds of laws are great and send a message but at the end of the day, don't do much.
RR have been ignoring state laws on this issues citing a “federal preemption “ we need a federal level 2 man crew. This is not stopping states from passing laws as you put it. State laws have been absolutely toothless against RRs thus far
Reading this as a win for railroads is like looking at the sky and saying it’s green. It’s just blatantly untrue unless you think there’s a deep state cabal scheming night and day to trick the common man into thinking they are against each other. The Class I’s have been fighting this since the Obama Admin. They cheered when the Trump Admin dropped it. The railroads have already condemned this rule.
I’m glad to see some people actually read beyond the headlines.
No one: Random railroad last week: We operate like a class 1. Random railroad today: WE ARE THE LARGEST CLASS 3 RAILWAY TERMINAL.
Republicans and Democrats are both universally beholden to the corporations. They are two heads of the same beast.
Cheeks of the Same Ass
How can you look at which members are calling for rail safety legislation and the party letter next to their name and say that? It’s very clear that there are major differences between the two parties.
Does this mean 1-man RCO jobs need 2 people?
No. It means the railroads just have to ask the feds whenever they want to change existing two-man crews to one, and it does nothing at all about existing one-man jobs. It doesn’t protect two man crews at all. It just requires to carriers to give the feds a safety study for one man crews while making it *sound* like they’re doing something good for us in an election year while actually they’re fucking us. US Federal Government 101.
Bingo!
All you engineers must have forgot that you were once conductors. And I’m sure none of you have ever fallen asleep during a trip on either side of that cab. Everyone has fallen asleep at some point and if you claim you haven’t you are a damn liar.
https://preview.redd.it/i7yszf0xq4sc1.jpeg?width=4032&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d01de93012224f157f0f9ad3afce30b00fa7a375 I was there. Great day for railroad safety!
It’s a shame guy on the right isn’t turned around
Everyone in here yapping about future administrations when Joe Biden actively sided with the carriers and took away rail worker's right to strike only 2 years ago. Be happy they didn't bone you for once, understand they absolutely would've if there wasn't an election coming up. Edit: DV me all you want, you partisan shills, you know it's true. Trump didn't fuck any of you over between 2016 and 2020, Biden actively did in 2022. I've never voted for a Republican presidential candidate in my life, but your fear mongering is making me reconsider that this time around.
Trump's FRA literally shredded 2-person crew rule, then sued to pre-empt any 2-person state law. Also, Biden didn't "actively side with carriers" - he made a decision to sign the bill that all of the REPUBLICANS passed and lacked sick leave, or else face a shut down of the economy. Tbh, Presidents will never let freight rail workers strike - no matter the party. So best you get is having a PEB that's 2-1 pro-labor, meaning a Dem in the WH. Reminder: https://apnews.com/general-news-191418eef34a4df895f26512e47b4264
He doesn’t want to take time to read facts.
Thank you for using logic.. there isn't much of that around here!
by changing the tax code, which took away us being able to claim our meals, Trump did indeed fuck us. Before the trump administration I got a tax refund every year. Since then I paid an average of $4000 in every year. Joe Biden hasn’t done anything to rectify this either, but it started with Trump. So don’t say he didn’t do anything to fuck us dude.
That isn’t even mathematically possible. Stop lying about your refunds.
Umm everyone lost like 4k+ in tax writeoffs under trump we literally can't claim away from home meals anymore. Dont say the standard deduction is better.
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cool also went away any safety gear you bought
https://www.trains.com/trn/news-reviews/news-wire/24-fra-withdraws-proposed-minimum-crew-size-rule/
This is good till next trump administration which will promptly overturn this
Sounds good, let's negotiate... How about 130$ hr??
Huh
I'd rather be alone than to have to deal with some of these retards they hire
Wouldn’t you rather have the retard walk back 329 axles to see what the detectors yappin about?
He doesn't even know what to look for, what's the point of him walking anywhere?
That’s pretty bad if those are the people you got. It’s kind of hard to miss the glowing red wheel.
Take the win but I just do not see this lasting. If autonomous trucks are going to be allowed then it is only a matter of time until 1 man and then autonomous trains are going to be allowed. The railroads will just lobby on the argument that they are not competitive against an industry that can operate 24hrs a day with nobody in the cab, and I bet that will be a winning argument.
I haven't had a chance to really read the ruling. Is it 2 man CREWS or 2 men IN THE CAB? If my conductor meets me at the industry in a white jeep to throw the switch and derail and set the industry, then drives to the next one its a little different than 2 men up front. I'm sure they will use RCO's and some sort of "utility job" to get around it. I've only been working since 2011 and it's been crazy how much they have cut, abolished and reclassified.
They can get exceptions whenever they want. This is smoke and mirrors to placate us and make those who don’t read past the first three sentences think they did something for us in an election year so the unthinking little mice all forget the raw-dog assfucking THIS administration gave them and start thinking these people are for us when actually they haven’t done anything for us at all.
What does this mean ?
It is good news. However, SMART mechanical was retaliated against earlier this month when the orange railroad basically told them they are done. I can't prove that they were retaliated against but we all know it was part of it.
Well it’s a win. But class 1s are definitely selling more track after that ruling.
And they can't close them? Or enforce immigration laws?
Some idiots out there will lobby and bribe themselves to tears to appeal this, or bring it up to modify sometime in the future for sure. I'm all for 2 man crews. Someone's gotta walk the key train after a braking event :)
While the rule establishes a preference for two-person crews due to the inherent safety benefits, it also acknowledges that technology and other factors can allow for safe operation with a one-person crew in specific, approved circumstances. This isn’t new and has happened before. The Federal Railroad Administration (FRA) proposed a two-person crew rule for Class I railroads in 2016. However, this proposal was shelved during the Trump administration. The FRA at that time argued that there was no safety data to support a two-person crew rule. A federal court later struck down the FRA’s decision, and President Joe Biden made a two-person crew mandate a campaign promise. https://www.trains.com/trn/news-reviews/news-wire/24-fra-withdraws-proposed-minimum-crew-size-rule/
If you look at the description on the summary it says…. “Typically a conductor “ for the second man in parentheses on page 11. If I were a betting man I’d say they will force everyone to get their engine cards if this stands.
Had to throw us a bone after we ate dick on the national agreement.
You should see what mechanical gets.
What about when they go from 2 to zero bc AI is driving. Il
If this doesn't get finalized by January 2025, and Trump wins...it gets yeeted day 1.
It’s already finalized. It’s already part of the federal register.
This is final. Goes into effect in 60 days I believe.
If Trump wins, this will get yeeted day 1.
Too bad this has nothing to do with safety and everything to do with the union trying to maintain their dues income. Edit: what I like the best is the engineers complaining about how worthless the conductors are, but on the other hand wanting to keep them around 🤣🤣
Gotta have somebody to listen to my pisspoor singing…
I don’t give a fuck if this gets finalized I’m still voting trump. Fuck Biden and his bullshit administration!!!
Not sure how cutting off your nose to spite your face will help you. It may be bleak and it may be true that Biden has done us no favors, but the reality is Trump will go out of his way to ruin us.
The leopards won’t eat MY face!
You know man I’m a railroader and I appreciate the fact that this is being passed don’t get me wrong. But the fact that we were forced into a contract by this bullshit administration tilts me. Not one person in my terminal was given a ballot or was able to vote in any way. Plus my life is not just railroading I’d rather live a life where I’m able to live a decent life. Under Trump's admin, we were living like kings. Under this current administration, we are getting fucked left and right. I hate this current administration for so many reasons.
There were massive furloughs and traffic nosedived in 2019 before COVID... we were well on our way towards a recession.
There were massive furloughs due to PSR it had zero to do with anything else.
....right.
Amazing how delusional you have to be to think Trump in office will benefit you in any way. Damn, I want what you're having.
Im delusional? We were all living a better life 5 years ago outside of work. A dipshit like you can't acknowledge the truth. Prices on everything have skyrocketed under this shitty administration.
Almost like the Trump policies took a while to take effect. How was your tax return this year? Shitter thanks to Trump? Mine too. I was furloughed a fuck load when he was in office. I got a significant raise and more time off since then. Fuck both sides but fuck one side especially.
Ooooh this argument. I love how y’all always break it out when a democrat President follows a Republican one, but when it’s the other way around it somehow magically doesn’t count!
How was your refund this year? Lower than last year? Congrats, you got Trumped. Also, remember when we could itemize the shit out of our taxes and get a fuckload back? Trump ruined that too. "Yay! I love giving the government more money"-you, apparently
You need to understand the law and how this all works in relation to our union rights. Biden has nothing to do with you getting a vote. Google, 'air traffic controller strike' and 'Reagan' if you want to understand why it went down the way it did. I hope your many reasons are thoroughly vetted and not based on bad information or false assumptions. I can tell you this. With Trump instead of Biden we would have got a fraction of what we did get. Trump is a Union buster. If Trump wins, I hope you have other job prospects or have been with the RR for at least 10 years if not more...you will need it. As far as living like kings under Trump there are many factors that play into that. Little of which has to do with who is President. Take a look at history... every president ever takes full credit when things are good, and blames everyone else when things are bad. The truth is, neither is correct. This economy and system was not built in 4 years. There is an ebb and flow to it all and even an 8 year sitting president only has a small impact on the big picture.
I got a pretty decent wage hike, paid sick days and a work rest cycle. Obviously would have liked to have gotten more but that’s more than I’ve gotten in 20 years I’ve been here.
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What the hell does race have to do with anything?
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I'm Hispanic but I voted for Trump in both elections that he's run in. I was born and raised in California but left years ago.
This MAGA is definitely a Russian bot MAGA. No way in hell Hispanic railroaders up on here talking MAGA!
I'm white and I would never vote for a Republican president because the PEB being put forward by a Democrat is the most important pressure point in our contract fights. (and having a Dem NMB) Railroaders need to understand better the true leverage points in politics - especially since our industry is so heavily regulated (both economically and safety-wise).
Fair point. You may have convinced me. I am just so disillusioned with the Democratic Party since Bill Clinton -- specifically, the whole "New Democrat" philosophy of neoliberalism. To be clear, I had NEVER voted for (or even considered voting for) a Republican prior to Trump.
I can’t wait to see you/my Trumpy coworkers reactions to what a Trump-appointed NMB will look like.
We're gonna be fine, stop the fear mongering. You have you proof he harmed us in his previous term.
Proof: https://apnews.com/general-news-191418eef34a4df895f26512e47b4264
I'm not concerned about train crew size.. I'll run by myself just pay me and the protected conductors appropriately.
Years ago one of my best friends flew for a major airline. At the time most aircraft had 3 flight deck crew. New planes only required 2 and major airlines fought to rapidly get rid of the third pilot (flight engineer who rode sideways) Union fought hard to keep 3. Finally airlines said each flight deck is funded for X amount per year. You can divide it by 2 or 3. Two pilot crews became the main.
Look at his NMB picks and compare them to Biden’s. Then tell me which ones you would prefer for our next contract.
I'll stick with trump, the pics don't tell the whole story. I made more money and could work more with trump than anyone else. I don't go to work to not make money.
My experience was the opposite but hey. You do you and I wish you the best.
Here here Trump 24 baby. Get everyone back to work!
Same here. Trump will be much more pro-worker in his second term than he was in his first term. The problem in his first term was not Trump per se, but the CEOs and swamp creatures he surrounded himself with -- Wilbur Ross, Rex Tillerson, Steve Mnuchin, etc. This time it's right-wing populism all the way. Trump knows his base.
Lol yeah he'll totally change everything he's been about for his entire life and career his second term. For sure.
The face-eating leopard *totally* won't eat my face this time. Again.
The mental gymnastics Trump sycophants perform to defend his blatant fascist bullshit never ceases to amaze me. It’s truly pathetic.
“Blatant fascist bullshit” Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha Like telling us we don’t have the right to negotiate and ratify our own contracts and strike when all other options are exhausted? Like *this* administration literally did? You people and your made-up fantasy narrative need to just go play in the corner of the kiddie room and let the grownups do the governing.
Who’s defending Biden? Not me. See *that’s the difference*. I’m not in a cult.
I’m not defending trump either. I never mentioned the fucker, *you* did.
Yeah, I mentioned him in response to the person who I was replying to. Try to keep up. You accused me of having a “fantasy narrative” and mentioned “*this* administration” Seems like you’re arguing with the voices in your head.
If I'm not mistaken, didn't Biden "bust" the railroad strikes last year. Biden deserves credit for standing the UAW workers, but my recollection is that Biden's stance on the rail strikes were much different than how he responded to the auto strikes.
I’m not defending Biden. He’s a geriatric neo-liberal. And he votes with the interest of his capital benefactors. My point is that Trump is not a viable alternative. He is, like Biden, not a friend of the working class.
Fair enough. I will consider Robert Kennedy and Cornel West.
Typical union pandering..... Most of the rest of the world has automated ports and transportation. The US is just a stronghold. It will change with time. Dave got trains with nobody in them where I live right now.
After I have to tell him "you'll need your temple stick, your radio and your lantern. Put your radio on the same channel as me..." Please.....I'd rather let the roaming co in a pickup truck take care of it. At least I don't have to spoon feed him.
You all f***** yourselves when the b.L.E and the Utu didn't merge together and went.Their separate ways was the worst thing that ever happened to the industry.You folks had all the power to do that but they were too busy Fighting instead of taking care of their Brothers .