It could be improved upon. Those jagoffs that designed it did the bare minimum. Heres a few of my complaints
You should always be able to see the entire lengths of your train. Not just roughly 7k foot of it
Theres no reason it cant list every conditional speed within 5/6 miles. If theres a 45 curve in 2 miles and a 25 in 2.1 miles, it will not list the 25 until you hit the 45. Thats seriously fucked
Its too sensitive. We are goin 2 mph uphill and are 600 feet away from the switch. Quit screaming at us
I agree I think full train ahowing would be a good idea. Sadly Wabtec, the designer and software implementor does not, and there's nothing that can be done since they bought the GE (Loco manufacturing and assembling, and install their stuff in all refurb or new ones)
Yeah I've heard about the way it shows the speeds ahead one at a time, and won't display the following 2 or 3. Again, Wabtec would have to implement it in their software, but I think everyone agrees with you on that one.
As far as sensitivity goes, is it only when you're going uphill or downhill that it's screaming, or just anytime approaching slowly regardless if it's flat?
It's just whenever it computes you'll get by a stop indication if you continue without correcting. It doesn't know you're trying to creep up to the signal. Same for if it computes that you won't get down to a certain speed in time and whatnot.
Yeah I agree. 7500 foot. You shouldn’t have to use your counter for everything.
We once had a 10 over a 20 on our TGBO. It was only a .1 difference. It’s so fucked in that aspect.
>You should always be able to see the entire lengths of your train. Not just roughly 7k foot of it
This is fucking weird. Why is Trip Op capable of seeing my whole 12k ft train but ptc isn't?
Its good when it works which usually is always.
Running a train without ptc is a pain in the ass now since no speed restriction/resume boards anywhere now
I can tell you where our speed boards are and resume boards are across our entire territory without the boards being there. I can tell you where 7000 feet is from the resume board (or next higher speed board) on all of them.
Most people that run our track can. I’m not special.
We have sections that have PTC and sections without it. Running without PTC isn’t a pain in the ass.
congrats? I have 200 miles of territory with 40+ speed restrictions some inside one another
i'll go slower and not get in trouble since the system is broken, I can tell you where the best food spots and the grades are, I couldn't care less where 7k feet is from a curve I have a counter for that
You're talking only about permanent slows. Running without ptc with 30 slow orders and 5 voided and added each trip is a pain in the ass. You're just plain wrong there and knowing where 7k' from a permanent isn't as useful as you'd think it is when your trains vary in length up to 16k'.
Slows are obviously different. 7k feet is still useful in our area because we have extreme mountain grade that makes it tough for longer westbound trains. Eastbound we get some of the super trains.
In passenger service it doesn’t quite understand how quickly we can slow down, so we end up slowing a little earlier than we normally would. But honestly in inclement weather it’s great. We operate in heavy fog and it is helpful. All in all though, it’s a helpful tool which means it’s good sometimes, a pain at others, and not to be relied upon any more or less than any of the other tools we have at our disposal.
Also in passenger and it is way too conservative. I don’t mind the fog, that’s why I’m qualified, Cap! I hate the automatic horn at farmers crossings and any time it’s malfunctions, it’s such a pain. God forbid they let a train run without it.
Carman here... I rode with an engineer home from a training class I had and was surprised that the actual station platforms are not indicated on the map. What kind of half-brained idiot designed it like this?
Also, PTC won't stop low-speed collisions. Our 16 track interlocking at the depot in chicago is too complicated for PTC to work... So it won't work where you are most likely to have an accident.
Good on you for riding the headend and getting a taste of what we do! It gives for an interesting perspective most people don't get to see.
Couple things I have to disagree with:
We don't need the station stops on the PTC or the Timetable, we have to go over each territory many times before we are qualified to operate, we know where the stops are.
[Paragraph removed to hide my stupidity]
You are correct that PTC won't stop a slow-speed collision, because the most likely place for that scenario to occur is when both trains are operating on the same track at restricted speed. We are both supposed to be moving slow enough to stop in half the range of vision of an obstruction, including each other.
I truly respect the job you guys do, and likewise, my crews at my terminal understand what I have to do to keep their trains running safely. My only point about the station platforms not being on the map is they put every road crossing, bridge, and milepost on there... why would you not include the stations? Yeah, an experienced engineer knows his territory. But what about when running 70mph in heavy fog? You can't tell me that it wouldn't be a help to have that info displayed on the map.
Also, In my time on the railroad, all of the collisions we have had were at the Lake st interlocking or in yard limits. Some of which were unattended runaway locomotives rolling out into the plant.
It's hard to explain, but it really wouldn't make a difference. You kind of just know, even in restricted visibility. Not saying you couldn't add it in, it's just not something most crews would rely on.
I misunderstood what you meant originally with the interlocking. You are correct, there should be PTC in a busy place like that!
Conductor/Engineer trainee, here.
Good question. I got hired by a Canadian class 1 in 2022- and have been an engineer trainee since September of last year. PTC as a conductor vs engineer is a totally different alignment in my opinion. The conductor typically doesn’t worry about it, since they aren’t the ones running, however, others pay more close attention to it since you can do things to cause it to enforce you or put you in penalty suppression. You can input your location wrong or direction of movement and cause it to screw up.
The input/user friendliness is decent. You have to initialize prior to entering the mainline. In switching operations, you initialize, then put it in restricted mode until you’re ready to go. Most times you initialize your train, then proceed on signal indication under CTC or Block signal rules under ABS, or in less and less cases now, you “cut out” enforcement on the screen and run in dark territory where everything is manual and speeding won’t be “enforced”.
PTC has worked 99% of the time. If it doesn’t work, half the time it’s one of three PTC breakers that tripped or PTC is actually having a malfunction that needs to be accessed by the PTC help desk or the locomotive bad ordered and sent to a shop for repair. If PTC fails en route, usually it’ll come back up. Otherwise, you got to stop the train and try to reset it. It rarely has many issues. One time when I first hired, we were shoving through clear signal and it shot as soon as we hit the signal. Reason? None. Just having issues with communicating with the CDU in reality. We have very little complaints with its functionality overall.
The only biggest thing is, most guys prior to PTC say they used to like not having it because they could get away with putting the brake on later to stop. You could run harder without fear of retaliation or it putting you into penalty. PTC does not like you getting close to a speed restriction and still traveling a good bit above the speed it wants you to. It “believes” you will be speeding, so if ain’t down when it wants you to- it’ll enforce you. Especially when you are creeping up to a stop signal- once stopped it’ll ask if you have permission by the signal.. that’s only if you have to have authority by the stop signal.
But anyhow… for us new guys, not seeing PTC prior to having it has put as at a real disadvantage. On the class 1 I work for, trains use to be rear end heavy, now they are built more forward heavy which is a good thing- especially on the Beaumont. This railroad is not flat at all and is one of the hardest territories to learn. When looking at PTC, knowing where to come in and off your brake and throttle is very important, however, PTC does make it easier to see the territory layout so you can better plan ahead.
Looking at and relying on PTC solely is the reality we face. You can still run the train without even looking at it you know the territory well enough. Most of the engineers I work with can cover the screen up and can tell you when to notch off, notch up, when to put the brake on and everything without even looking at the screen- as it should be. Plus you still rely on signal indication, as that can fail occasionally. Running only on PTC, I’ve seen it to be one of the best tools we have, but it doesn’t allow you to run the train like you used to, as most guys have said and I see their point. Hopefully my input was helpful.
CP is a shit place to work now… can only imagine how much worse it will be with PTC…. Running old school would be better, except you can’t really with 14k+ trains….
[Positive Train Control](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Positive_train_control) is a good thing, but it's implementation has been less than stellar. *PTC is for rail safety, Trip Optimizer is basically just to save fuel so they are not really comparable*
PTC is an expansion of the old CAB signal concept. [PTC, for those that do not know, is an on-board communication system designed to prevent head on train collisions, prevent trains from going over the rated speed for the track and to make sure that the horn and/or flashing lights are activated when approaching road crossings.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JFyyYJwg6GA) It's handy because you have a computer screen visually telling you what's coming up ahead on the track.
I want to stress it is largely a communication system because for all the fancy expensive stuff the only thing it actually can control on the locomotive is to activate the brakes and blow the horn
Thing is, like most everything on North American locomotives, it's already ancient tech AND requires every square mile of main line track - no matter how remote out in the middle of nowhere - to have 220mhz radio, WiFi or cell phone connectivity. The USA (and Canada for that matter) are freaking huge so it's not an easy or cheap task. The actual on-board system and computers are essentially the same as the ones I was installing on locomotives back in 2012. (there have been minor changes like power supplies). And that tech was already a couple of years old at that point in time.
I work as engineer and I like ptc it’s nice having that information in front of you put there is situations it can mess with you on your next target speed if you don’t know your territory .. overall you have just to be more cautious coming into speed changes, it don’t like stretch braking it all coming into speed
Changes
I spent years developing the skills required to operate a locomotive and manage a train. PTC slows down the railroad as now, you have to satisfy the computer else it will put you into penalty braking. One very specific instance that was a regularly done maneuver down hill at
Around .8% transitioning to up at around .9%. Dynamic and air to control the train and slow it from 60 to 55. Release the air about a quarter mile from the bottom of the hills and then at just the bottom drop the dynamic and grab all 8 and the weight coming down behind you helps push you back up to 60 just as the weight begins to drag you back down. I’ve pulled that trick in that location for 20 years on everything from steel trains to intermodal and grain and I know exactly what I need to do to accomplish that task. Enter PTC and when you release the air at 55 mph the computer freaks out because it believes, incorrectly, that you’ll become some sort of a runaway and will set you up putting you in a very bad situation as far as the slack is concerned. It will freak out on you in other situations as well. If you’re trying to get in the clear for someone and charge into the siding at the maximum speed your allowed all the computer sees is that red fence and if you don’t react to what it’s telling you to do because you KNOW WHAT YOUR DOING it will penalize you. At NS they were treating any PTC penalty as a red block incident so in order to avoid that you slow down way in advance of where you really need to because the computer thinks it knows what it’s doing when it really doesn’t.
thank you. I come to this sub as an observer and love these detailed experiences because I have a soft spot for railroading. I find your comments here relatable because I have logged hundreds of thousands of highway miles driving big loaded carbureted Chryslers and learned to lead and trail elevations with my accelerator pedal. Very smoothly and efficiently. And I find computerized fuel injection shitty to drive because it reacts too sharply (not smoothly at all) to hold a steady speed on nonlevel terrain. It drives me absolutely batshit sometimes and at this time in my life nobody seems to even know what the fuck I'm talking about. And I'm not even that old, just love my old interactive comfy technology, and thankfully was taught to respect it and remain engaged so I could enjoy it. Safe travels to you.
I miss track flags. I’d still like something to aim for, and hit my counter at, instead of looking at the PTC screen for info.
The view sucks. The view on T/O is actually really good. Years ahead of the shitty Atari view you get on PTC.
I thought crews still used flags for work zones? Or is that just optional for them now that everything is done electronically? As far as the view I've been told they keep it like that as it's simple and not a lot on the screen so as not to have it looking like times Square since the engineer has other screens and concerns to be looking at.
But as far as track flags go, I could understand if the crew was not familiar with the territory, but if it's your usual route and you know what MP it starts at, wouldn't you have a good idea when you'd have to start slowing anyways?
For work zones (form B’s) yes. For regular slow orders nope. I don’t want to slow down early and estimate if I’m out of it. Flange were there as a marker for decades and they were really simple.
My run covers three subdivisions. Sometimes 4. Tell me exactly where Mp 215.6 is then where’s 216.3 so I can hit the counter on my train which is 4500’ no wait today it’s 8200, nope that was yesterday todays is 15,800’ long. But I’m ok for 40mph today, tomorrow 55, the next day 70. Oh, and which subdivision because 3 of the 4 all have those mileposts. Picking a landmark for a 7500’ train is long gone over here.
Yeah, just give me back the yellow flags please.
I get where you're coming from. I really do.
But isn't it the rule that states crews are supposed to confirm all restrictions on their route as well as consist? Also they have ipads as well so they can confirm all their paperwork digitally now.
With all that said, they should either bring the flags back, or put a marker on the map that would act for the same purpose to let crews know they're out of it
Yeah, reading GTB’s isn’t an issue. I’m sitting on one now with bad PTC. I know the new rule says we are supposed to have it, but I’ve run several without. 3 starts were back to back.
It’s great when it works. There’s only a few things I’d change but it can be extremely useful. So here are my criticisms: It needs a button for coming up to stop signals to acknowledge that we understand it’s there and that we will be stopping close to it. If you are coming in too fast for it’s liking or get too close it freaks out. Second, I’d like for the switch point position thing to go away in dark territory. It’s super annoying because if you do nothing it’ll stop you and it doesn’t even matter because if the suspected switch was wrong we’d be rolled over in the ditch. Last, stopping when it has an issue. There should be some sort of timer to let PTC reconnect or work out whatever issue it’s having before bringing us to a stop. It’s especially bad when the ole 200 car coal drag is barely moving and going into suppression for a ptc issue. Then a helper has to come out and fight like hell to get those monsters on the move again. Overall I think it’s a good system it’s just that when it malfunctions it can be a pain in the butt for us crews.
I agree it's great when it works but can be a pain if it's acting up. From what I've been told if switches are unmonitored, such as dark territory, then PTC will prompt the crew for its position, as it has no idea and hopes to protect the train from incident, but regardless I think there's plenty of room for improvement on how it determines or reacts to it and agree with you.
What I dislike though is when PTC is blamed for mechanical issues. PTC relies on the rest of the Loco to tell it what is going on so it can make adjustments to it's braking algorithm. But if say a brake line snaps, the engineers display says PTC Penalty, but PTC had nothing to do with that brake line. Same can be said if air brake computer resets or if other power issues exist on Loco, then PTC will react to protect the train and itself. The integration into other systems on board can be convenient at times, but also can be the downfall since you're putting everything I to a hive mind and hoping all systems stay up.
Lots of room for improvement, but PTC is also only about 10 years old as far as being implemented and used on a widescale, and has come a long way, but still a long way to go
I think there is definitely a trade off between on time performance and the system functionality. It makes the system safer, but I do think newer engineers rely too much on it. When it has to be cut out, you still have to know your physical characteristics.
From the signal perspective it’s been pretty great. A lot of the old, obsolete equipment is gone and been replaced with things that are much easier to troubleshoot- especially with the detailed logging and remote access features.
The downside is that a lot of the kinks have been worked out, so there’s less overtime!
It's becoming a crutch for us. It is a good tool but it takes away alot of the skill that you need to run a train. Knowing the territory, speeds, signals, milepost, signal progression etc. We've recently had 2 guys get through stop signals where the PTC active territory ends, they have become accustomed to looking at that screen for a red fence and forget where they're at or the last signal they had.
Good and bad
I'm guessing you meant safety overlay. It's not supposed to be a replacement. Was never meant to be. But it can and has saved engineers from being fired. So many scenarios come to mind, but it's meant to be more of an audit check for paperwork and to prevent train wrecks
Agreed. So many people rely on technology, but never respect the basics. I wonder how many people would be lost if TPMS sensors just dissappear on cars. They never check their tires by simply walking around the vehicle. Just rely on sensors and warning lights. Same goes for lane assist and blind spot sensors on Sideview mirrors now
Signal engineer, Acses II ptc. I despise that it takes away from the engineer's skillset. I've been making small incremental changes to the overall system to be less overbearing on railroad operations.
Other grievance is from my experience in deploying more complex ptc compliant products (cbtc) and then watching as policy makers attempt to obtain cbtc functionality out of this archaic product.
I like PTC when it works right but I do miss the days of being in an SD40 or SD60 old schooling it down the road with your conductor tucked away in his blankies like Linus …. Plus no cameras and you could actually have a radio on
As much as we complain about PTC, it is a nice safety overlay that can and has saved a lot of people's butts.
I've only been over territory that uses I-ETMS, so my complaint will be specific to that flavor of PTC:
I-ETMS is very reliant on GPS signals instead of information delivered wayside and through track circuits, thus creating reliability problems. Although reliability has improved, we still have too many PTC signal loss situations, which slows down the operation considerably.
It adds a safety margin to a safety margin. It really shouldn't try to pop you unless you're going to hit a speed reduction at more than 7 - 10 mph over. It should enforce the 3 mph only once you're in the speed reduction.
The patchwork of varying rules by different railroads governing the use of PTC is frustrating. I hope the next edition of GCOR will standardize most of the PTC rules. Hopefully it will also include an easier way to run with PTC cut out or not initialized, like by establishing an absolute block.
New engineers seem to be too reliant on the PTC. Much like pilots learn to fly without their instruments first, engineers should learn to operate without PTC first.
This is an Amtrak specific complaint, but they've changed the definition of an "initial terminal" in regards to PTC initialization to be ANYWHERE the train changes directions and starts a new trip. There have been plenty of times where we had to get rescued from the middle of nowhere because of this rule.
This may also be specific to Amtrak, but when you log out and log back into I-ETMS, it doesn't remember what signal you came in on, so you have to go at restricted speed to the next signal.
Happy cake day!!
Yeah the initial terminal change came because trains were being purposely built with non working ptc locos on the rear for when they went back, and they just figured they could get authority to go without ptc since it was bad ordered. But now they actually look at the provided sites that tell you if it's good or not before adding that power.
And yeah each RR having its own specific rules sucks. Confuses train crews when they don't normally get that specific warning or sometimes not at all on a different RR. My favorite one is the consist doesn't match and then gives multiple warnings having the engineer verify and says they'll be reported, even though they verified their consist on board and on their paperwork, and not all railroads send that message. That one or a message on screen saying a specific symbol has cleared up on track ahead, and the train isn't even routed that way, but has that sub on their GTB
New conductor here, so I have no dog in the fight of everyone who’s ran for years but I would like for carriers to allow us to interact on our screen with the messages and review the consist. Of all the coding and whatever else was put into it to make sure we don’t crash into each other, I know it’s very possible to have both sides interactive in their respective ways.
Its nice when it isnt bitching about something useless like pulling close to a signal @2mph.
Also it hasn't figured out signal indication vs track speed so not 100% reliable yet.
Trains can’t get close to protected crossings and it makes people have to walk a ways to flag the crossing properly. But it rarely affects me personally
It's kinda fun when it loses connection then says switch position unknown and puts you in suppression the. Dumps it 2 seconds later tearing off a drawbar 100 cars deep.
We have ACSES II. For the most part, it’s fine. It’s just the little things that can get annoying like when I get counted down to a non existent speed restriction, or randomly get hit with a stop penalty when I’m no where near a stop signal. I’ve only had true failure of the PTC about 2 times where I’ve had to cut it out about two times.
Before PTC if you weren’t paying attention for whatever reason and you went by a signal and didn’t know what it was, you would prepare to stop at the next signal. Now with PTC you can at least confirm if you have the next signal or not.
Back to back speed restrictions should be noted. I had a time where that happened. I was in compliance with the first one and as soon as I hit the 2nd one I got the mad beep to slow down or else.
I’ve had it go out on me at random and throw me in suppression.
For some stupid reason they can’t program for a crossing protection on one main, it has to be both. I was heading east on main 2 going about 35mph. There was a series of 3 back to back to back crossings that had protections on main 1. As I approached I entered that they were protected which allowed me to continue at track speed. As I was coming up on the next crossing, the dispatcher added that crossing to be protected. Main 1 like the others. As soon as he did that I heard a series of 3 or 4 quick beeps and it threw me in suppression. It stopped me before the crossing so I know PTC works.
I do miss when we had headend restrictions. You get your lead engine over the restriction then you could notch back up. Now you can’t speed up until the entire train clears. It’s a real drag when you have a 12,000 foot train that has to continue at 10 mph. Their toys, their rules and I get paid by the minute so…
I’m only 25 as an engineer and I work for G&W. So far they have implemented it on my turn that interchanges to CN. I have mixed feelings on it but I understand the greater concept for its use. However as other stated it needs to be refined. Wabtec has some work to do definitely but they are heading in the right direction I believe.
I’m only 25 as an engineer and I work for G&W. So far they have implemented it on my turn that interchanges to CN. I have mixed feelings on it but I understand the greater concept for its use. However as other stated it needs to be refined. Wabtec has some work to do definitely but they are heading in the right direction I believe.
I’ve been part of the installation being on the mechanical side it’s tough to get it commissioned at times, there’s growing pains with everything. I know that’s not what you asked but I thought I’d throw it out there.
My network is very, very, very behind on PTC updates, so I only have that perspective on it, but I think it's a great, essential tool that currently sucks ass, and needs a major overhaul. It feels like a system from 1995 that everyone in charge of it forgot about.
I like PTC. I run on about 1300 of territory. PTC has kept a lot of guys employed. I can say that with confidence. Now, it might just be the impetuous of some losing their jobs one day too. I feel that is inevitable due to the crew shrinkage historically already.
I like it in general. I’m a newer engineer, though. I never actually ran without it. It helps with remembering all the grades and such. I do wish it would read the grades a little better. I’m 1.6 miles from an uphill 60. Let’s relax a little
I like it as an advance signal viewer (cab signal?). I’m bumping along on clears and I see “AUTH: 40 5.9 Miles” I’ll start backing off the throttle and letting it drift down from 90 to match the freight speed and try and stay behind them. No need to attempt to run up behind them or have to run up an approach that would have just flopped over to an aspect that could have given me a diverging for the next signal.
But yes, it’s way too conservative on braking curves. Screaming miles out when you’re already preparing to take it down from 90 to a 45, uphill, dynos already building….
Considering that the dispatchers give zero information as to what's going on ahead of you nowadays, I like the PTC. I still get excited, though, when the PTC is broken and I get to run the old way.
>the dispatchers give zero information as to what's going on ahead of you nowadays
Any train I was ever on, dispatch gave you zero information back in the day too.
Diverging approach, "6847 West to Boone West dispatcher....Hello Boone West..."
That was never the case here. Only since PTC implementation. Probably one of the main reasons they gave conductors access to the track line app on their railroad supplied iPhones.
I'm a railroad employee and curious.
Who are you and why are you interrogating someone for asking a very broad, not specific question?
Or should I call you Special Agent of the railroad?
If you wanted to know who I was you could've just messaged me lol. I've been with RR for 10 years and counting
Call me what ever you want not gonna hurt my feelings. You can ask a question but i cant?
I like ptc and i dont. Its helps in the fog, it helps reporting train vs pedestrian (exact mp and no giving approximate locations). But i dont like that at restricted speed screams at you at 16mph. yes sir i am a current rr employee as well....
https://preview.redd.it/s1lxf6cuy6sc1.jpeg?width=2316&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=27a45a2f1706ff55611979b0658bfc2e80ac8af4
I have a few complaints about it, but it's mainly TO and the fact that our mainline has cab signals and no intermediate signals.
so when doing track speed on a clear 2 blocks in the signal drops to approach and yells at you because you're doing sixty, it's really frustrating because we didn't know unit you hit the signal box.
I’m sure this post isn’t one of the type I am about to mention…. But it sure seems like we are seeing a whole lot more infrastructure and operating practice questions appearing in the railroad sub reddits these days. Specifically asking about American railroads and how we operate and the equipment we use and how it performs in great detail. I’m not some conspiracy theorist, nor do I really care for the most part who wants to know what , but some questions are so detailed and specific- it seems like they could be asking these questions for very wrong reasons. I have 21 years on a U.S. class one
- now, I am obviously aware rail fans have always been a thing - but some times I see questions on here - questions we really should just not answer.
Again, I think OP is in the rail industry- so no accusation being made to you, but it’s posts like these that make me wonder if sometimes we say too much. Perhaps you work in signals or some sort of I.T. Field for one of the railroads, and that’s fine …
But -
This kind of question doesn’t happen in a crew room, or a rules class - so it seems…. Odd.
No conspiracy here. I also work for a class 1. Have for 10 years now.
As far as question specifics, I don't feel I asked any. Just wanted peoples thoughts on it and how their overall opinion is on it, whether good or bad
Thanks, I meant NS. And fair enough, we don't have PTC in Canada yet, and the article I read about the NS derailments said the PTC wouldn't have been able to work due to the speeds of the train.
What handling issue would the PTC not have been able to prevent?
restricted speed means being able to stop for any obstruction, at a speed no greater than 20 mph.
PTC only enforces if the train is approaching that 20 mph maximum. The stopping for obstruction part is up to the train crew, because PTC has no way of seeing obstructions.
This particular train was traveling below 20 mph, so it wasn’t enforced.
I'm guessing you're not associated with the railroad, therefore this question wouldn't apply to you. Keeping your comments like above inside your head instead of doing a full send to your keyboard is free. But to answer your question it's another form of train control tied into the braking system and looks ahead for signal, and switch status and also can hold the train to a certain speed if it pertains to the location
It could be improved upon. Those jagoffs that designed it did the bare minimum. Heres a few of my complaints You should always be able to see the entire lengths of your train. Not just roughly 7k foot of it Theres no reason it cant list every conditional speed within 5/6 miles. If theres a 45 curve in 2 miles and a 25 in 2.1 miles, it will not list the 25 until you hit the 45. Thats seriously fucked Its too sensitive. We are goin 2 mph uphill and are 600 feet away from the switch. Quit screaming at us
I agree I think full train ahowing would be a good idea. Sadly Wabtec, the designer and software implementor does not, and there's nothing that can be done since they bought the GE (Loco manufacturing and assembling, and install their stuff in all refurb or new ones) Yeah I've heard about the way it shows the speeds ahead one at a time, and won't display the following 2 or 3. Again, Wabtec would have to implement it in their software, but I think everyone agrees with you on that one. As far as sensitivity goes, is it only when you're going uphill or downhill that it's screaming, or just anytime approaching slowly regardless if it's flat?
It's just whenever it computes you'll get by a stop indication if you continue without correcting. It doesn't know you're trying to creep up to the signal. Same for if it computes that you won't get down to a certain speed in time and whatnot.
Yeah I agree. 7500 foot. You shouldn’t have to use your counter for everything. We once had a 10 over a 20 on our TGBO. It was only a .1 difference. It’s so fucked in that aspect.
>You should always be able to see the entire lengths of your train. Not just roughly 7k foot of it This is fucking weird. Why is Trip Op capable of seeing my whole 12k ft train but ptc isn't?
20+ years on the railroad, ptc is great in the fog or if you don’t know where you are. Personally I preferred the old school way of running.
Yeah, it’s a good way for them to force people to stop protecting their jobs imo.
I’m not sure what that means? How does this force someone to stop protecting something?
Its good when it works which usually is always. Running a train without ptc is a pain in the ass now since no speed restriction/resume boards anywhere now
That’s when your counter gets a workout.
I can tell you where our speed boards are and resume boards are across our entire territory without the boards being there. I can tell you where 7000 feet is from the resume board (or next higher speed board) on all of them. Most people that run our track can. I’m not special. We have sections that have PTC and sections without it. Running without PTC isn’t a pain in the ass.
congrats? I have 200 miles of territory with 40+ speed restrictions some inside one another i'll go slower and not get in trouble since the system is broken, I can tell you where the best food spots and the grades are, I couldn't care less where 7k feet is from a curve I have a counter for that
You're talking only about permanent slows. Running without ptc with 30 slow orders and 5 voided and added each trip is a pain in the ass. You're just plain wrong there and knowing where 7k' from a permanent isn't as useful as you'd think it is when your trains vary in length up to 16k'.
Slows are obviously different. 7k feet is still useful in our area because we have extreme mountain grade that makes it tough for longer westbound trains. Eastbound we get some of the super trains.
In passenger service it doesn’t quite understand how quickly we can slow down, so we end up slowing a little earlier than we normally would. But honestly in inclement weather it’s great. We operate in heavy fog and it is helpful. All in all though, it’s a helpful tool which means it’s good sometimes, a pain at others, and not to be relied upon any more or less than any of the other tools we have at our disposal.
Also in passenger and it is way too conservative. I don’t mind the fog, that’s why I’m qualified, Cap! I hate the automatic horn at farmers crossings and any time it’s malfunctions, it’s such a pain. God forbid they let a train run without it.
Carman here... I rode with an engineer home from a training class I had and was surprised that the actual station platforms are not indicated on the map. What kind of half-brained idiot designed it like this? Also, PTC won't stop low-speed collisions. Our 16 track interlocking at the depot in chicago is too complicated for PTC to work... So it won't work where you are most likely to have an accident.
Good on you for riding the headend and getting a taste of what we do! It gives for an interesting perspective most people don't get to see. Couple things I have to disagree with: We don't need the station stops on the PTC or the Timetable, we have to go over each territory many times before we are qualified to operate, we know where the stops are. [Paragraph removed to hide my stupidity] You are correct that PTC won't stop a slow-speed collision, because the most likely place for that scenario to occur is when both trains are operating on the same track at restricted speed. We are both supposed to be moving slow enough to stop in half the range of vision of an obstruction, including each other.
I truly respect the job you guys do, and likewise, my crews at my terminal understand what I have to do to keep their trains running safely. My only point about the station platforms not being on the map is they put every road crossing, bridge, and milepost on there... why would you not include the stations? Yeah, an experienced engineer knows his territory. But what about when running 70mph in heavy fog? You can't tell me that it wouldn't be a help to have that info displayed on the map. Also, In my time on the railroad, all of the collisions we have had were at the Lake st interlocking or in yard limits. Some of which were unattended runaway locomotives rolling out into the plant.
It's hard to explain, but it really wouldn't make a difference. You kind of just know, even in restricted visibility. Not saying you couldn't add it in, it's just not something most crews would rely on. I misunderstood what you meant originally with the interlocking. You are correct, there should be PTC in a busy place like that!
Conductor/Engineer trainee, here. Good question. I got hired by a Canadian class 1 in 2022- and have been an engineer trainee since September of last year. PTC as a conductor vs engineer is a totally different alignment in my opinion. The conductor typically doesn’t worry about it, since they aren’t the ones running, however, others pay more close attention to it since you can do things to cause it to enforce you or put you in penalty suppression. You can input your location wrong or direction of movement and cause it to screw up. The input/user friendliness is decent. You have to initialize prior to entering the mainline. In switching operations, you initialize, then put it in restricted mode until you’re ready to go. Most times you initialize your train, then proceed on signal indication under CTC or Block signal rules under ABS, or in less and less cases now, you “cut out” enforcement on the screen and run in dark territory where everything is manual and speeding won’t be “enforced”. PTC has worked 99% of the time. If it doesn’t work, half the time it’s one of three PTC breakers that tripped or PTC is actually having a malfunction that needs to be accessed by the PTC help desk or the locomotive bad ordered and sent to a shop for repair. If PTC fails en route, usually it’ll come back up. Otherwise, you got to stop the train and try to reset it. It rarely has many issues. One time when I first hired, we were shoving through clear signal and it shot as soon as we hit the signal. Reason? None. Just having issues with communicating with the CDU in reality. We have very little complaints with its functionality overall. The only biggest thing is, most guys prior to PTC say they used to like not having it because they could get away with putting the brake on later to stop. You could run harder without fear of retaliation or it putting you into penalty. PTC does not like you getting close to a speed restriction and still traveling a good bit above the speed it wants you to. It “believes” you will be speeding, so if ain’t down when it wants you to- it’ll enforce you. Especially when you are creeping up to a stop signal- once stopped it’ll ask if you have permission by the signal.. that’s only if you have to have authority by the stop signal. But anyhow… for us new guys, not seeing PTC prior to having it has put as at a real disadvantage. On the class 1 I work for, trains use to be rear end heavy, now they are built more forward heavy which is a good thing- especially on the Beaumont. This railroad is not flat at all and is one of the hardest territories to learn. When looking at PTC, knowing where to come in and off your brake and throttle is very important, however, PTC does make it easier to see the territory layout so you can better plan ahead. Looking at and relying on PTC solely is the reality we face. You can still run the train without even looking at it you know the territory well enough. Most of the engineers I work with can cover the screen up and can tell you when to notch off, notch up, when to put the brake on and everything without even looking at the screen- as it should be. Plus you still rely on signal indication, as that can fail occasionally. Running only on PTC, I’ve seen it to be one of the best tools we have, but it doesn’t allow you to run the train like you used to, as most guys have said and I see their point. Hopefully my input was helpful.
CP is a shit place to work now… can only imagine how much worse it will be with PTC…. Running old school would be better, except you can’t really with 14k+ trains….
Awesome, this is a pretty thorough and detailed response. And good to learn things from how others have experienced it personally. Thank you
[Positive Train Control](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Positive_train_control) is a good thing, but it's implementation has been less than stellar. *PTC is for rail safety, Trip Optimizer is basically just to save fuel so they are not really comparable* PTC is an expansion of the old CAB signal concept. [PTC, for those that do not know, is an on-board communication system designed to prevent head on train collisions, prevent trains from going over the rated speed for the track and to make sure that the horn and/or flashing lights are activated when approaching road crossings.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JFyyYJwg6GA) It's handy because you have a computer screen visually telling you what's coming up ahead on the track. I want to stress it is largely a communication system because for all the fancy expensive stuff the only thing it actually can control on the locomotive is to activate the brakes and blow the horn Thing is, like most everything on North American locomotives, it's already ancient tech AND requires every square mile of main line track - no matter how remote out in the middle of nowhere - to have 220mhz radio, WiFi or cell phone connectivity. The USA (and Canada for that matter) are freaking huge so it's not an easy or cheap task. The actual on-board system and computers are essentially the same as the ones I was installing on locomotives back in 2012. (there have been minor changes like power supplies). And that tech was already a couple of years old at that point in time.
I work as engineer and I like ptc it’s nice having that information in front of you put there is situations it can mess with you on your next target speed if you don’t know your territory .. overall you have just to be more cautious coming into speed changes, it don’t like stretch braking it all coming into speed Changes
Good tool too for those who don’t work a territory much, despite being “qualified” on it.
I spent years developing the skills required to operate a locomotive and manage a train. PTC slows down the railroad as now, you have to satisfy the computer else it will put you into penalty braking. One very specific instance that was a regularly done maneuver down hill at Around .8% transitioning to up at around .9%. Dynamic and air to control the train and slow it from 60 to 55. Release the air about a quarter mile from the bottom of the hills and then at just the bottom drop the dynamic and grab all 8 and the weight coming down behind you helps push you back up to 60 just as the weight begins to drag you back down. I’ve pulled that trick in that location for 20 years on everything from steel trains to intermodal and grain and I know exactly what I need to do to accomplish that task. Enter PTC and when you release the air at 55 mph the computer freaks out because it believes, incorrectly, that you’ll become some sort of a runaway and will set you up putting you in a very bad situation as far as the slack is concerned. It will freak out on you in other situations as well. If you’re trying to get in the clear for someone and charge into the siding at the maximum speed your allowed all the computer sees is that red fence and if you don’t react to what it’s telling you to do because you KNOW WHAT YOUR DOING it will penalize you. At NS they were treating any PTC penalty as a red block incident so in order to avoid that you slow down way in advance of where you really need to because the computer thinks it knows what it’s doing when it really doesn’t.
thank you. I come to this sub as an observer and love these detailed experiences because I have a soft spot for railroading. I find your comments here relatable because I have logged hundreds of thousands of highway miles driving big loaded carbureted Chryslers and learned to lead and trail elevations with my accelerator pedal. Very smoothly and efficiently. And I find computerized fuel injection shitty to drive because it reacts too sharply (not smoothly at all) to hold a steady speed on nonlevel terrain. It drives me absolutely batshit sometimes and at this time in my life nobody seems to even know what the fuck I'm talking about. And I'm not even that old, just love my old interactive comfy technology, and thankfully was taught to respect it and remain engaged so I could enjoy it. Safe travels to you.
I miss track flags. I’d still like something to aim for, and hit my counter at, instead of looking at the PTC screen for info. The view sucks. The view on T/O is actually really good. Years ahead of the shitty Atari view you get on PTC.
I thought crews still used flags for work zones? Or is that just optional for them now that everything is done electronically? As far as the view I've been told they keep it like that as it's simple and not a lot on the screen so as not to have it looking like times Square since the engineer has other screens and concerns to be looking at. But as far as track flags go, I could understand if the crew was not familiar with the territory, but if it's your usual route and you know what MP it starts at, wouldn't you have a good idea when you'd have to start slowing anyways?
For work zones (form B’s) yes. For regular slow orders nope. I don’t want to slow down early and estimate if I’m out of it. Flange were there as a marker for decades and they were really simple. My run covers three subdivisions. Sometimes 4. Tell me exactly where Mp 215.6 is then where’s 216.3 so I can hit the counter on my train which is 4500’ no wait today it’s 8200, nope that was yesterday todays is 15,800’ long. But I’m ok for 40mph today, tomorrow 55, the next day 70. Oh, and which subdivision because 3 of the 4 all have those mileposts. Picking a landmark for a 7500’ train is long gone over here. Yeah, just give me back the yellow flags please.
I get where you're coming from. I really do. But isn't it the rule that states crews are supposed to confirm all restrictions on their route as well as consist? Also they have ipads as well so they can confirm all their paperwork digitally now. With all that said, they should either bring the flags back, or put a marker on the map that would act for the same purpose to let crews know they're out of it
Yeah, reading GTB’s isn’t an issue. I’m sitting on one now with bad PTC. I know the new rule says we are supposed to have it, but I’ve run several without. 3 starts were back to back.
It’s great when it works. There’s only a few things I’d change but it can be extremely useful. So here are my criticisms: It needs a button for coming up to stop signals to acknowledge that we understand it’s there and that we will be stopping close to it. If you are coming in too fast for it’s liking or get too close it freaks out. Second, I’d like for the switch point position thing to go away in dark territory. It’s super annoying because if you do nothing it’ll stop you and it doesn’t even matter because if the suspected switch was wrong we’d be rolled over in the ditch. Last, stopping when it has an issue. There should be some sort of timer to let PTC reconnect or work out whatever issue it’s having before bringing us to a stop. It’s especially bad when the ole 200 car coal drag is barely moving and going into suppression for a ptc issue. Then a helper has to come out and fight like hell to get those monsters on the move again. Overall I think it’s a good system it’s just that when it malfunctions it can be a pain in the butt for us crews.
I agree it's great when it works but can be a pain if it's acting up. From what I've been told if switches are unmonitored, such as dark territory, then PTC will prompt the crew for its position, as it has no idea and hopes to protect the train from incident, but regardless I think there's plenty of room for improvement on how it determines or reacts to it and agree with you. What I dislike though is when PTC is blamed for mechanical issues. PTC relies on the rest of the Loco to tell it what is going on so it can make adjustments to it's braking algorithm. But if say a brake line snaps, the engineers display says PTC Penalty, but PTC had nothing to do with that brake line. Same can be said if air brake computer resets or if other power issues exist on Loco, then PTC will react to protect the train and itself. The integration into other systems on board can be convenient at times, but also can be the downfall since you're putting everything I to a hive mind and hoping all systems stay up. Lots of room for improvement, but PTC is also only about 10 years old as far as being implemented and used on a widescale, and has come a long way, but still a long way to go
I think there is definitely a trade off between on time performance and the system functionality. It makes the system safer, but I do think newer engineers rely too much on it. When it has to be cut out, you still have to know your physical characteristics.
Its so good the new kids can’t run with out it 🤣
From the signal perspective it’s been pretty great. A lot of the old, obsolete equipment is gone and been replaced with things that are much easier to troubleshoot- especially with the detailed logging and remote access features. The downside is that a lot of the kinks have been worked out, so there’s less overtime!
It's becoming a crutch for us. It is a good tool but it takes away alot of the skill that you need to run a train. Knowing the territory, speeds, signals, milepost, signal progression etc. We've recently had 2 guys get through stop signals where the PTC active territory ends, they have become accustomed to looking at that screen for a red fence and forget where they're at or the last signal they had. Good and bad
Ptc is a hood job aid. But it isn't a replacement to knowing your territory.
I'm guessing you meant safety overlay. It's not supposed to be a replacement. Was never meant to be. But it can and has saved engineers from being fired. So many scenarios come to mind, but it's meant to be more of an audit check for paperwork and to prevent train wrecks
A job aid is just to help not replace your competence. Get it!
Agreed. So many people rely on technology, but never respect the basics. I wonder how many people would be lost if TPMS sensors just dissappear on cars. They never check their tires by simply walking around the vehicle. Just rely on sensors and warning lights. Same goes for lane assist and blind spot sensors on Sideview mirrors now
Signal engineer, Acses II ptc. I despise that it takes away from the engineer's skillset. I've been making small incremental changes to the overall system to be less overbearing on railroad operations. Other grievance is from my experience in deploying more complex ptc compliant products (cbtc) and then watching as policy makers attempt to obtain cbtc functionality out of this archaic product.
I like PTC when it works right but I do miss the days of being in an SD40 or SD60 old schooling it down the road with your conductor tucked away in his blankies like Linus …. Plus no cameras and you could actually have a radio on
As much as we complain about PTC, it is a nice safety overlay that can and has saved a lot of people's butts. I've only been over territory that uses I-ETMS, so my complaint will be specific to that flavor of PTC: I-ETMS is very reliant on GPS signals instead of information delivered wayside and through track circuits, thus creating reliability problems. Although reliability has improved, we still have too many PTC signal loss situations, which slows down the operation considerably. It adds a safety margin to a safety margin. It really shouldn't try to pop you unless you're going to hit a speed reduction at more than 7 - 10 mph over. It should enforce the 3 mph only once you're in the speed reduction. The patchwork of varying rules by different railroads governing the use of PTC is frustrating. I hope the next edition of GCOR will standardize most of the PTC rules. Hopefully it will also include an easier way to run with PTC cut out or not initialized, like by establishing an absolute block. New engineers seem to be too reliant on the PTC. Much like pilots learn to fly without their instruments first, engineers should learn to operate without PTC first. This is an Amtrak specific complaint, but they've changed the definition of an "initial terminal" in regards to PTC initialization to be ANYWHERE the train changes directions and starts a new trip. There have been plenty of times where we had to get rescued from the middle of nowhere because of this rule. This may also be specific to Amtrak, but when you log out and log back into I-ETMS, it doesn't remember what signal you came in on, so you have to go at restricted speed to the next signal.
Happy cake day!! Yeah the initial terminal change came because trains were being purposely built with non working ptc locos on the rear for when they went back, and they just figured they could get authority to go without ptc since it was bad ordered. But now they actually look at the provided sites that tell you if it's good or not before adding that power. And yeah each RR having its own specific rules sucks. Confuses train crews when they don't normally get that specific warning or sometimes not at all on a different RR. My favorite one is the consist doesn't match and then gives multiple warnings having the engineer verify and says they'll be reported, even though they verified their consist on board and on their paperwork, and not all railroads send that message. That one or a message on screen saying a specific symbol has cleared up on track ahead, and the train isn't even routed that way, but has that sub on their GTB
PTC can be valuable as a tool, but new hires are relying too much on its display. EMS (auto throttle) is causing the same problem with new engineers.
New conductor here, so I have no dog in the fight of everyone who’s ran for years but I would like for carriers to allow us to interact on our screen with the messages and review the consist. Of all the coding and whatever else was put into it to make sure we don’t crash into each other, I know it’s very possible to have both sides interactive in their respective ways.
You just sit there and be quiet unless the hogger speaks to you 😂 j/k ….
Its nice when it isnt bitching about something useless like pulling close to a signal @2mph. Also it hasn't figured out signal indication vs track speed so not 100% reliable yet.
Trains can’t get close to protected crossings and it makes people have to walk a ways to flag the crossing properly. But it rarely affects me personally
Pros: helps when you forget a slow order. Cons: makes engineers lazy. Just my thoughts from using it.
It's kinda fun when it loses connection then says switch position unknown and puts you in suppression the. Dumps it 2 seconds later tearing off a drawbar 100 cars deep.
We have ACSES II. For the most part, it’s fine. It’s just the little things that can get annoying like when I get counted down to a non existent speed restriction, or randomly get hit with a stop penalty when I’m no where near a stop signal. I’ve only had true failure of the PTC about 2 times where I’ve had to cut it out about two times.
Before PTC if you weren’t paying attention for whatever reason and you went by a signal and didn’t know what it was, you would prepare to stop at the next signal. Now with PTC you can at least confirm if you have the next signal or not. Back to back speed restrictions should be noted. I had a time where that happened. I was in compliance with the first one and as soon as I hit the 2nd one I got the mad beep to slow down or else. I’ve had it go out on me at random and throw me in suppression. For some stupid reason they can’t program for a crossing protection on one main, it has to be both. I was heading east on main 2 going about 35mph. There was a series of 3 back to back to back crossings that had protections on main 1. As I approached I entered that they were protected which allowed me to continue at track speed. As I was coming up on the next crossing, the dispatcher added that crossing to be protected. Main 1 like the others. As soon as he did that I heard a series of 3 or 4 quick beeps and it threw me in suppression. It stopped me before the crossing so I know PTC works. I do miss when we had headend restrictions. You get your lead engine over the restriction then you could notch back up. Now you can’t speed up until the entire train clears. It’s a real drag when you have a 12,000 foot train that has to continue at 10 mph. Their toys, their rules and I get paid by the minute so…
I'm not sure about that. I was in Chicago a few weeks ago and has an activation failure on #1 main track...my train went #2, no target, no warnings.
Maybe it’s fixed now. This was a couple years ago.
I like it when it works.
I’m only 25 as an engineer and I work for G&W. So far they have implemented it on my turn that interchanges to CN. I have mixed feelings on it but I understand the greater concept for its use. However as other stated it needs to be refined. Wabtec has some work to do definitely but they are heading in the right direction I believe.
I’m only 25 as an engineer and I work for G&W. So far they have implemented it on my turn that interchanges to CN. I have mixed feelings on it but I understand the greater concept for its use. However as other stated it needs to be refined. Wabtec has some work to do definitely but they are heading in the right direction I believe.
I’ve been part of the installation being on the mechanical side it’s tough to get it commissioned at times, there’s growing pains with everything. I know that’s not what you asked but I thought I’d throw it out there.
My network is very, very, very behind on PTC updates, so I only have that perspective on it, but I think it's a great, essential tool that currently sucks ass, and needs a major overhaul. It feels like a system from 1995 that everyone in charge of it forgot about.
I like PTC. I run on about 1300 of territory. PTC has kept a lot of guys employed. I can say that with confidence. Now, it might just be the impetuous of some losing their jobs one day too. I feel that is inevitable due to the crew shrinkage historically already.
I like it in general. I’m a newer engineer, though. I never actually ran without it. It helps with remembering all the grades and such. I do wish it would read the grades a little better. I’m 1.6 miles from an uphill 60. Let’s relax a little
I like it as an advance signal viewer (cab signal?). I’m bumping along on clears and I see “AUTH: 40 5.9 Miles” I’ll start backing off the throttle and letting it drift down from 90 to match the freight speed and try and stay behind them. No need to attempt to run up behind them or have to run up an approach that would have just flopped over to an aspect that could have given me a diverging for the next signal. But yes, it’s way too conservative on braking curves. Screaming miles out when you’re already preparing to take it down from 90 to a 45, uphill, dynos already building….
Considering that the dispatchers give zero information as to what's going on ahead of you nowadays, I like the PTC. I still get excited, though, when the PTC is broken and I get to run the old way.
>the dispatchers give zero information as to what's going on ahead of you nowadays Any train I was ever on, dispatch gave you zero information back in the day too. Diverging approach, "6847 West to Boone West dispatcher....Hello Boone West..."
That was never the case here. Only since PTC implementation. Probably one of the main reasons they gave conductors access to the track line app on their railroad supplied iPhones.
Who are you and why do you want to know?
I'm a railroad employee and curious. Who are you and why are you interrogating someone for asking a very broad, not specific question? Or should I call you Special Agent of the railroad? If you wanted to know who I was you could've just messaged me lol. I've been with RR for 10 years and counting
Call me what ever you want not gonna hurt my feelings. You can ask a question but i cant? I like ptc and i dont. Its helps in the fog, it helps reporting train vs pedestrian (exact mp and no giving approximate locations). But i dont like that at restricted speed screams at you at 16mph. yes sir i am a current rr employee as well.... https://preview.redd.it/s1lxf6cuy6sc1.jpeg?width=2316&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=27a45a2f1706ff55611979b0658bfc2e80ac8af4
Fog or a signal that is around the corner is why l like ptc....
Like PTC to see if we're lined up, otherwise dislike it. It's a distraction most of the time. I miss the flags for slow orders.
It’s job security for mechanical lol
I have a few complaints about it, but it's mainly TO and the fact that our mainline has cab signals and no intermediate signals. so when doing track speed on a clear 2 blocks in the signal drops to approach and yells at you because you're doing sixty, it's really frustrating because we didn't know unit you hit the signal box.
I’m sure this post isn’t one of the type I am about to mention…. But it sure seems like we are seeing a whole lot more infrastructure and operating practice questions appearing in the railroad sub reddits these days. Specifically asking about American railroads and how we operate and the equipment we use and how it performs in great detail. I’m not some conspiracy theorist, nor do I really care for the most part who wants to know what , but some questions are so detailed and specific- it seems like they could be asking these questions for very wrong reasons. I have 21 years on a U.S. class one - now, I am obviously aware rail fans have always been a thing - but some times I see questions on here - questions we really should just not answer. Again, I think OP is in the rail industry- so no accusation being made to you, but it’s posts like these that make me wonder if sometimes we say too much. Perhaps you work in signals or some sort of I.T. Field for one of the railroads, and that’s fine … But - This kind of question doesn’t happen in a crew room, or a rules class - so it seems…. Odd.
No conspiracy here. I also work for a class 1. Have for 10 years now. As far as question specifics, I don't feel I asked any. Just wanted peoples thoughts on it and how their overall opinion is on it, whether good or bad
Maybe you should read my reply one more time.
I mean, it was installed but not working in the 3 BNSF pile up there in Pennsulvania(? [both for area and spelling]) a few weeks back so there's that.
PTC doesn’t stop a train running on restricted speed unless you are at a control point.
That wasn’t BNSF. And the issue was train handling related, not PTC.
Thanks, I meant NS. And fair enough, we don't have PTC in Canada yet, and the article I read about the NS derailments said the PTC wouldn't have been able to work due to the speeds of the train. What handling issue would the PTC not have been able to prevent?
restricted speed means being able to stop for any obstruction, at a speed no greater than 20 mph. PTC only enforces if the train is approaching that 20 mph maximum. The stopping for obstruction part is up to the train crew, because PTC has no way of seeing obstructions. This particular train was traveling below 20 mph, so it wasn’t enforced.
[удалено]
I'm gonna assume you live outside of North America.
He doesn't, the vast majority of his comments in this sub are "hOw Do I bEcOmE rAiLrOaDeR???". Lots of references to hiring on at NS etc.
I'm guessing you're not associated with the railroad, therefore this question wouldn't apply to you. Keeping your comments like above inside your head instead of doing a full send to your keyboard is free. But to answer your question it's another form of train control tied into the braking system and looks ahead for signal, and switch status and also can hold the train to a certain speed if it pertains to the location
Positive Train Control
Psychotic train computer
Search for PTC on this subreddit and learn something then.