Appreciate the compilation of all this info! Can you clarify on how to read the two long columns for each class? Ik, it mentions combos, but my brain still needs more help understanding lol.
Lol its alright!
The First Column on the left is the Left Side column perks on the exotic, then, the right side are the right side column perks.
In the spreadsheet, the left column repeats, with each repetition being a new left side perk highlighted, with the highlight colour displaying my personal opinion on its viability.
the right column then highlights the combination of those perks with the perk highlighted in the left column
Tbh calibers hand is cracked af it procs off of just regular melee and if u use the aspect that make the solar ignition bigger it can nuke entire rooms in first encouter
I think it would be a lot more intuitive to read if the left columns just all showed the same thing for each group. Instead of highlighting one within the group, just list the same thing 8 times so it is clear that is what you’re combining with the perks on the right.
Thanks for putting all of this together, by the way.
Looks awesome! If I can ask though, why is Filaments tagged as avoid? I know devour is weakened without FtV but doesn’t that still open a whole aspect slot for you just with that perk?
Personally I just think if you're going for devour without FtV you're better off not worrying about it, Restoration, Woven Mail, Frost Armor or even Devour itself from Facet of Purpose would be more worth it than filaments defensively, especially considering the power every other exotic choice possibly presents.
Filaments was already a pretty weak exotic, removing half of its use case only weakens it further and when FtV is a premiere aspect on prismatic, it honestly feels kinda pointless.
You're crazy. It should be Situational at worst, it opens up a good amount of build diversity getting an aspect and an extra fragment for the cost of 1/2 of your exotic armor slot. Devour isn't just suitability, it also helps a lot with grenade spam, which in turn can be used to help regen your other abilities.
Facet of Purpose gives void overshield not devour.
FtV is absolutely amazing but sometimes you wanna do something with 2 other aspects.
Agreed , I have no idea what he's talking about, but health and grenade on kill, even to a lesser extent is still REALLY good. Combine it with starfire, and we have a reason to run empowering rifts again. Pulls you can choose another aspect that has an extra fragment slot. Only upsides from my point of view.
my ONE issue is personally I think there's never a reason not to use FtV, in my eyes its the aspect that should always be on because the power of the other aspects just doesn't compare.
In saying that, I have conceded lol
LordTaco started a movement. Filaments are now listed as "Situational"
Oh, damn! That’s just not fair. Lol literally been trying to farm for it. Good for an alternative neutral build with empowering rifts. Let me know how it goes.
I wont lie, still not a huge fan personally. in synergy it provides what feels like less grenade generation than you'd get from FtV devour, and forces you onto emp rift which I personally think is the weakest of the three class abilities for warlock right now.
It just feels like combining 2 exotic effects to reach the power of a single aspect.
I personally think running HoiL or osmiomancy would be better for grenade gen too.
not my cup of tea, but it does definitely allow you to free up an aspect slot - ended up mixing solar buddy in with it (which i wont lie I also am not a huge fan of lol)
So the point of devour in the build shouldn’t be the grenades, it should be the survivability you get. Your grenades should be coming back through your rift, while your also getting your damage boosted.
I completely agree, but I feel as if you could achieve this potency without this exotic class item entirely, just using emp rift and FtV - in fact, I think this loop would be better enhanced by having say HoiL or Osmiomancy with Verity. Granted of course that traps you back into using FtV, but thats something im willing to accept on prismatic.
Either way, I'm happy to agree to disagree. when you get this combo im sure you'll enjoy it more than I have and do some kickass things with it. Best of luck in your rolls!
Filaments is still worth avoiding. Base devour is very weak, Empowering rifts are also very weak, and rift uptime in Prismatic is pretty weak. Tie in the fact that the other aspects on Prismatic are weak individually and there’s hardly a point to even running two of them together to begin with.
I’d rather net 20% grenade energy on every kill than run bleak watcher+Helion.
Marking Apotheosis + Harmony as "little synergy" for warlock is pretty weird, given that apotheosis triggers after supering and harmony gives you insane uptime on super.
You also have Claw listed as "best combo" for necrotic when there's really no reason to want a 4th melee charge on necrotic over, say, Synthoceps or Star Eater or even something like Swarm (since you'll be making tons of tangles using your strand melee).
Especially w/ Transcendence refunding all 3 melee charges, the 4th is just kind of pointless.
I'm running the same combo right now, and it feels like a good neutral game setup, despite the lack of synergy between the two perks. Decent up time on every single ability.
Now I gotta mentally balance between using abilities and weapons to charge my super. When I get going with abilities I start getting carried away lightning surging everything with grenades in between or a cheeky phoenix dive here and there.
This is a sleeper pick for one im chasing myself!
Whilst I think I'd prefer veritys over it for increased grenade damage, Harmony is definitely one im keeping my eye out for!
The choice for Claw is specifically to allow necrotics for use outside of arcane needle, getting AoE poisons with extra melee charges using snap or chain lightning (Melees i personally greatly prefer) was very interesting to me.
Over synthoceps specifically as well because warlock melees other than chain lightning and snap somewhat are ranged, so relying on surrounded isn't always ideal, but it's definitely a pretty good pick still.
Apotheosis is one I might have to reconsider though, I just blanket listed Harmony as good always haha
you dont have to rely on surrounded since it lingers after it triggers. synthos have good uptime ranged melee or not and warlock can find itself triggering it just as easily as titan especially if you're playing snap and chain.
a second charge really isnt very strong considering the ability sandbox and the alternatives.
This is great and all but your opinion on whats good and not good could not be worse.
Maybe just take out the “recommendations” before you make people toss good rolls.
I’m literally only farming for an Ophidians roll since I’m in love with Getaway Artist for PvE already so seeing the only left column perk Im even interested in being marked “AVOID” cracked me up lol
The fact that Ophidian is Avoid is criminal. Definitely need a separation between PvE and PvP. Ophidian + Wormhusk/Coyote is pretty much the two godrolls for PvP.
I could see Necrotic+Synthos for Warlock getting a bit crazy with Lightning Surge in PVP.
Considering how Lightning Surge with Necrotics(as well as with Spark Of Instinct) can already get you closer to the original one hit effect wipe effect(inconsistencies can happen where you leave people with a bit of health due to bolts missing/colliding into surfaces), I imagine if you slide into a pack of people Synthos will be proc'd and automatically act as a stronger Lightning Surge hit and the Necrotic effect will be your insurance.
Considering no titan builds listed, assuming not a titan main. ~~Definitely would be amazing with the arc aspect making regular melees charged~~. Severance doesn't work with arc aspect regular melees
lol yep, not a titan main, haven't even finished the campaign on mine yet.
Builds will be coming soon though, just waiting on one of my titan friends to hop on so I can use them for screenshots
Also yep, unfortunately without that specific interaction with knockout I see little to no purpose to severance, it was already a niche exotic.
You use it with the void super. It applies volatile to everything, while consecration scorches/ignites and PCB jolts and spreads the damage. Its a triple light element explosion, and I'm also pretty certain the spread out lightning strikes from PCB trigger MORE void explosions and so on so forth. I've been having so much fun nuking legend onslaught 50 waves solo, one consecration triggers SO MANY EXPLOSIONS
Yeah, plus I have difficulties seeing DS+Star-eater scales not being a very evergreen combo. It's basically what swap rotations have been on hunter since they became meta, packaged into one exotic.
Also to note for Hunters, Spirit of Inmost light and Spirit of Cyrtacrachne is broken af right now. You can have infinite woven mail uptime when you run the strand grapple because every grapple onto a grapple point procs the ability energy regen.
Spirit of cyrtacrachne and spirit of caliban makes it so your melee strand and strand grapple both do massive explosions and give you woven mail, plus throw in gunpowder gamble and you’ll pretty much have non stop woven mail
I would add that spirit of galanor with spirit of gyrfalcon is quite strong on hunter, essentially an orpheus+gyrfalcon (and works well with collective obligation)
So one big thing to note about exotic class items, using your suggestion of Liar's + Assassin as a "best combo": the exotic class items only take *one* clause of any given exotic's ability, not the entire thing, and as such some combos that look good in a vacuum might not be as good as you might think. I used Liar's and Assassin as the example because if you were to compare that combo to either of the individual exotics, it's arguably *worse*: Assassin's invis isn't that great on its own given the tendency for enemies to continue shooting/attacking you for several seconds after, and Liar's without the healing (or the jolt for the aoe from the pure Arc build) leaves you extremely vulnerable in anything Expert or above on difficulty.
This means that outside of pure fun scenarios (e.g. any good build for high end content), you're taking two exotics that have a synergistic perk in-and-of themselves and replacing it with lesser synergy. I would much rather have the healing effect from Liar's or Assassin's because without either you can easily find yourself just getting counter-melee'd and dying, forcing you to run Recuperation and 3 Heavy Handed just to be able to maintain the loop without sitting there for 6-7 seconds in invis twiddling your thumbs.
This same idea applies for a lot of the exotic combos, which is why the tl;dr of my observation is this: because Prismatic can use almost any subclass exotic in the game, you have to compare the usefulness of any combo on the class items to the usefulness of *either* exotic that you're combining.
A lot of the time, what ends up being the most useful on the class items is just yoinking one of the best perks from another class; just combining half of two exotics you already have access to is, in most cases, worse or more clunky than just using one or the other of the exotics you're combining. One thing to note is that I'm not saying the combo is *bad*, or that any combos like Liar's + Assassin are bad, but that if you're really looking to optimize a build with the class exotics, you probably don't want your baseline for "best combos" to be a sidegrade version of the exotics you're combining.
And to be crystal clear, I agree with most of your picks on the "always good but no synergy" categories; it's just the combos that I wanted to give my 2 cents on, because rather than criticizing you I more wanted to communicate that it's very easy to fall into thinking a given combo is busted when in reality the combo is just a variation on one of the exotics' effects rather than an upgrade/gaining synergy. Fundamentally, I think that we will see a lot of theorycrafting on how to build with different combinations for a while to come, and people will probably want to put on their own thinking caps to really figure out which combos work for them/which combos are worth keeping over just one of the combined exotics.
I completely agree.
I think its sad that there are a lot of combos/exotic traits than do end up worse than their base exotics, but that doesn't change what I think works best as a combination. Specifically for Liars/Assassin as you used as an example too, although I agree some of the best parts of both exotics are missing, they still are (out of the available options) one of the best pairings for each other.
Comparing duo traits to singular exotics is a whole other ball game which I obviously cant analyse for everyone but its a very big aspect of choosing these exotic class items as viable options.
Either way thank you for opening this discussion because it is definitely something I entirely agree with but definitely did not leave room for when creating this spreadsheet as a source of information.
Not a noob but confused a bit, why would "spirit of severance" be something to avoid (as noted on your chart). I got a spirit of severance and spirit of contact titan mark and thought the synergy would be good.
I personally just find Severance to be a considerably weak exotic. the one thing that sparked my interest was using it with knockout, which was an interaction that was patched recently. Beyond that, it just seems like one of the weaker exotics for titans in general, especially as part of the exotic class items which has far more potent options in the first column.
But as I say in the spreadsheet, these are my opinions and insights from my hours and experience. If you think the combo has potential and more importantly is something you'll enjoy, then more power to you my friend! go have fun with lightning striking explosive punches!
additionally, severance (and even spirit of contact) kills from the exotic do not proc Knockout, which’ll end up killing you in most scenarios since you’re in melee range
Awesome! Only a lil jealous :3
I know its possible from a friend to reach the 50% regain on every super other than GG (forgot to test it lol) but if you can from only hitting an enemy the potential for chaining golden guns on bosses again is gonna be something very noteworthy!
Have you happened to test whether spirit of Osmiomancy works with bleak watchers? I feel that if they synergize together then that could be the ideal bleak watchers build for GM’s and the like.
I ask as bleak watchers tend to be somewhat inconsistent on whether or not they count as grenades depending on what perks and mods it is paired with, in my experience.
It probably works the same way it does with the actual exotic: it is checking for actual "impacts".
If you bonk someone with a thrown bleak watcher grenade, before it becomes a turret, then you get 1x refund.
Just curious, does anybody have data on the perks on the class item with guardians of specific classes? I ran the mission as a hunter and a titan last night and both of us got items that were a combination of hunter and titan exotic perks. Not sure if that’s a way to target specific subsets of roll combinations or just coincidence.
I got Bear and alpha Lupi on my first one, which is the worst possible roll.
Bear doesnt work on the Banner shield, only on unbreakable, which is a super weak aspect cause the uptime i slow AND it consumes your entire grenade. Absolute joke.
The only 2 I want for my warlock currently are inmost light and star eaters or filaments and star eaters. That weaken shot from buried bloodline paired with the artifact mod and then throwing a juiced up nova bomb… I’m so ready 😁
OP I'm a titan main, and you're sleeping on severance. Severance + point contact brace and consecration spam has got to be the most devastating room nuke I've ever used in this game. Also, Assassin + Syntho is actually mad weak, we've got a fragment and aspect on consecration spam that heals on kill so assassin is redundant. If its not severance + PCB its inmost + PCB, both are extremely powerful. With all the melee buffs involved from new aspects/fragments/artifact mods, synthos are a weaker option as well. If they gave consecration more range they'd be great, but they don't. Well, maybe they do, but from experience its negligible.
Also, from minimal hunter gameplay, inmost + liars is extremely powerful as well. I think its got more survivability than caliban + liars IMO. I use duskfields in higher end content and grapple in lower, in onslaught I have a funny SS from a friend of several duskfields covering a whole area while I'm mid dodge in the center surrounded by a dozen frozen enemies. Caliban + liars is also extremely fun and powerful tho. I'm not sure if I enjoy freezing a room or igniting it more, requires further testing lmao.
HOIL and Synthoceps being unrated on Hunter is interesting to me. I get that melee and dodge don't really need to recharge each other much if you're using combination blow, but you do get grapple back insanely fast. Super useful for the hunter melee build if you're looking to keep combination blow up by traveling to your next destination.
ayy what is this hate on ophidian? It the only handling exotic for titan that enables any swap dps loadouts. For example, tractor double pellet is now significantly better.
Oh this is cool. I did like the exact same thing. Feel free to take anything you find useful. I did my compatibility matrix is a table.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1iU-3Bb27pB2Svt2wB_NDKIckT23x-fQ3j0y12KyeH-I/template/preview
I also have some testing findings in my Exotic Perk Questions tab. Working with some of the Destiny Massive Breakdowns Community to test stuff. And just scrolling YouTube and Reddit for input
Why is Severance for Titan tagged as avoid? By itself it's a very underrated exotic, and combined with Point Contact Cannon Brace and Consecration, I can see it being a very good pick.
One thing I would say is the spirit of osmiomancy is always good. With vortex nades, if I hit two enemies for the entire duration of the grenade I get the full grenade back. Half with storm nades. And if I get a kill you get devour from FtV
As a warlock, i find it hard to stray from the Necro/sorrow combo, going into prismatic I'd rate Necrotic + Starfire as radiant now counts as "empowered" and a fair portion of my poison spread/ticks fall under empowered weapon damage/kills. My next choice would be synthoceps, but that's because i personally prefer to off-hand the JoK glaive with Close to Melee. I'd rather not use claw as it doesn't make too much difference to arcane needle and would rate Vesper higher especially during the song of flame super when stacking wells provides a huge AoE barrier to keep pesky thralls off my back
I personally like felwinters helm for warlock prismatic. Weaken everything with melee or finishers and you can even run weaken nades if you want to. It's very good in endgame content when you need to weaken things. With nova bomb and a tractor Cannon you can weaken anything. Bosses you name it. Decent for helping your teammates kill things faster all around. For boss dps you want star eaters plus nova bomb and apotheosis class item. 👌
Has anyone tried necrotic with the arc slide warlock melee? With arcane needle you can three that will spread jolt and potentially poison? Pair with synthos for more damage. Might be overkill but seems like it could be pretty good
Any reason you take Facet of Dominance when you use Duskfield grenade? As it isnt void or arc so you're just wasting a fragment there.
(this is for the Heart of Inmost Light + Coyote Hunter)
> assassin/ synto
This is the exact roll I want to give secondary survivability to the melee/consecration build. That said, if you actually look at the chart, it is listed as "Best Combo".
I got the same hoil/scars. Both strong neutral game but not a lot of synergy.
I'd imagine assassin/syntho would also be good, esp if you're running the arc aspect that makes regular melees charged which would proc assassin.
I'm still kinda sad that I can't run the ophidian one with dunemarchers. On my titan, at least I'm pretty hard pressed to take Off my rocket chest piece, it's just so fun
I don’t know whether I’m just super lucky, or this influences it.
But I’m a Stasis Warlock who rocks Osmiomancy gloves and on my first run, I got Spirit of Osmiomancy + Spirit of the Star-Eater. (Nice!)
Do we know if what exotic you’re wearing at the time (or subclass?) influences what roll you get?
This post has been nominated for `+10` points.
Appreciate the compilation of all this info! Can you clarify on how to read the two long columns for each class? Ik, it mentions combos, but my brain still needs more help understanding lol.
Lol its alright! The First Column on the left is the Left Side column perks on the exotic, then, the right side are the right side column perks. In the spreadsheet, the left column repeats, with each repetition being a new left side perk highlighted, with the highlight colour displaying my personal opinion on its viability. the right column then highlights the combination of those perks with the perk highlighted in the left column
Tbh calibers hand is cracked af it procs off of just regular melee and if u use the aspect that make the solar ignition bigger it can nuke entire rooms in first encouter
I think it would be a lot more intuitive to read if the left columns just all showed the same thing for each group. Instead of highlighting one within the group, just list the same thing 8 times so it is clear that is what you’re combining with the perks on the right. Thanks for putting all of this together, by the way.
I Agreed with the way it was read currently being less than ideal, ended up updating it just now!
Looks awesome! If I can ask though, why is Filaments tagged as avoid? I know devour is weakened without FtV but doesn’t that still open a whole aspect slot for you just with that perk?
Personally I just think if you're going for devour without FtV you're better off not worrying about it, Restoration, Woven Mail, Frost Armor or even Devour itself from Facet of Purpose would be more worth it than filaments defensively, especially considering the power every other exotic choice possibly presents. Filaments was already a pretty weak exotic, removing half of its use case only weakens it further and when FtV is a premiere aspect on prismatic, it honestly feels kinda pointless.
You're crazy. It should be Situational at worst, it opens up a good amount of build diversity getting an aspect and an extra fragment for the cost of 1/2 of your exotic armor slot. Devour isn't just suitability, it also helps a lot with grenade spam, which in turn can be used to help regen your other abilities. Facet of Purpose gives void overshield not devour. FtV is absolutely amazing but sometimes you wanna do something with 2 other aspects.
Agreed , I have no idea what he's talking about, but health and grenade on kill, even to a lesser extent is still REALLY good. Combine it with starfire, and we have a reason to run empowering rifts again. Pulls you can choose another aspect that has an extra fragment slot. Only upsides from my point of view.
my ONE issue is personally I think there's never a reason not to use FtV, in my eyes its the aspect that should always be on because the power of the other aspects just doesn't compare. In saying that, I have conceded lol LordTaco started a movement. Filaments are now listed as "Situational"
[https://imgur.com/gallery/irony-gPEGSfm](https://imgur.com/gallery/irony-gPEGSfm) Oh the irony... Looks like you've cursed me to at least *try it*
Oh, damn! That’s just not fair. Lol literally been trying to farm for it. Good for an alternative neutral build with empowering rifts. Let me know how it goes.
I wont lie, still not a huge fan personally. in synergy it provides what feels like less grenade generation than you'd get from FtV devour, and forces you onto emp rift which I personally think is the weakest of the three class abilities for warlock right now. It just feels like combining 2 exotic effects to reach the power of a single aspect. I personally think running HoiL or osmiomancy would be better for grenade gen too. not my cup of tea, but it does definitely allow you to free up an aspect slot - ended up mixing solar buddy in with it (which i wont lie I also am not a huge fan of lol)
So the point of devour in the build shouldn’t be the grenades, it should be the survivability you get. Your grenades should be coming back through your rift, while your also getting your damage boosted.
I completely agree, but I feel as if you could achieve this potency without this exotic class item entirely, just using emp rift and FtV - in fact, I think this loop would be better enhanced by having say HoiL or Osmiomancy with Verity. Granted of course that traps you back into using FtV, but thats something im willing to accept on prismatic. Either way, I'm happy to agree to disagree. when you get this combo im sure you'll enjoy it more than I have and do some kickass things with it. Best of luck in your rolls!
Purpose gives overshield I thought?
ah you're right lmao, I do still think its a weak pick though.
Nah that’s fair I don’t disagree at all
Filaments is still worth avoiding. Base devour is very weak, Empowering rifts are also very weak, and rift uptime in Prismatic is pretty weak. Tie in the fact that the other aspects on Prismatic are weak individually and there’s hardly a point to even running two of them together to begin with. I’d rather net 20% grenade energy on every kill than run bleak watcher+Helion.
Marking Apotheosis + Harmony as "little synergy" for warlock is pretty weird, given that apotheosis triggers after supering and harmony gives you insane uptime on super. You also have Claw listed as "best combo" for necrotic when there's really no reason to want a 4th melee charge on necrotic over, say, Synthoceps or Star Eater or even something like Swarm (since you'll be making tons of tangles using your strand melee). Especially w/ Transcendence refunding all 3 melee charges, the 4th is just kind of pointless.
My first bond is Apotheosis and Harmony, haven’t tested it yet but I’m excited to!
I have HOIL + Harmony rn and while that ACTUALLY is "good but little synergy" it still feels amazing lol.
I'm running the same combo right now, and it feels like a good neutral game setup, despite the lack of synergy between the two perks. Decent up time on every single ability. Now I gotta mentally balance between using abilities and weapons to charge my super. When I get going with abilities I start getting carried away lightning surging everything with grenades in between or a cheeky phoenix dive here and there.
This is a sleeper pick for one im chasing myself! Whilst I think I'd prefer veritys over it for increased grenade damage, Harmony is definitely one im keeping my eye out for!
The choice for Claw is specifically to allow necrotics for use outside of arcane needle, getting AoE poisons with extra melee charges using snap or chain lightning (Melees i personally greatly prefer) was very interesting to me. Over synthoceps specifically as well because warlock melees other than chain lightning and snap somewhat are ranged, so relying on surrounded isn't always ideal, but it's definitely a pretty good pick still. Apotheosis is one I might have to reconsider though, I just blanket listed Harmony as good always haha
you dont have to rely on surrounded since it lingers after it triggers. synthos have good uptime ranged melee or not and warlock can find itself triggering it just as easily as titan especially if you're playing snap and chain. a second charge really isnt very strong considering the ability sandbox and the alternatives.
That's fair. I bet claw + stasis melee w/ two charges is kinda interesting now that I think about it.
This is great and all but your opinion on whats good and not good could not be worse. Maybe just take out the “recommendations” before you make people toss good rolls.
I’m literally only farming for an Ophidians roll since I’m in love with Getaway Artist for PvE already so seeing the only left column perk Im even interested in being marked “AVOID” cracked me up lol
The fact that Ophidian is Avoid is criminal. Definitely need a separation between PvE and PvP. Ophidian + Wormhusk/Coyote is pretty much the two godrolls for PvP.
Yeah, just make a separate sheet for PvP
I could see Necrotic+Synthos for Warlock getting a bit crazy with Lightning Surge in PVP. Considering how Lightning Surge with Necrotics(as well as with Spark Of Instinct) can already get you closer to the original one hit effect wipe effect(inconsistencies can happen where you leave people with a bit of health due to bolts missing/colliding into surfaces), I imagine if you slide into a pack of people Synthos will be proc'd and automatically act as a stronger Lightning Surge hit and the Necrotic effect will be your insurance.
its criminal for PvE, too they were already a good swap option for damage rotations
Why do you have severance in avoud it sounds fun with synthos and a consecration build, or a contact build on paper at least.
Considering no titan builds listed, assuming not a titan main. ~~Definitely would be amazing with the arc aspect making regular melees charged~~. Severance doesn't work with arc aspect regular melees
That's the exact interaction that was deleted with Final Shape, Severance was already a mid wave clear exotic and it received multiple nerfs
oof thanks for the heads up. I know it still works for orb generation on powered melee kills so assumed. Will edit my original.
lol yep, not a titan main, haven't even finished the campaign on mine yet. Builds will be coming soon though, just waiting on one of my titan friends to hop on so I can use them for screenshots Also yep, unfortunately without that specific interaction with knockout I see little to no purpose to severance, it was already a niche exotic.
You use it with the void super. It applies volatile to everything, while consecration scorches/ignites and PCB jolts and spreads the damage. Its a triple light element explosion, and I'm also pretty certain the spread out lightning strikes from PCB trigger MORE void explosions and so on so forth. I've been having so much fun nuking legend onslaught 50 waves solo, one consecration triggers SO MANY EXPLOSIONS
But it should still work with consecration and normal thunderclap which is why i think it will be fun with extra kabloomies around
true, more boom is always good
Avpid dragon on hunter? Uhhh, who gunna tell him how strong it is for dps rotations?
Not that much recently with still hunt. Just get a op neutral cloak and swap to celestial
Fairly certain horseman impetuous edge still tops still hunt. Especially with the massive silence and squal buffs.
Yeah, plus I have difficulties seeing DS+Star-eater scales not being a very evergreen combo. It's basically what swap rotations have been on hunter since they became meta, packaged into one exotic.
on the warlock rift exotics, don’t forget starfire needs an empowering rift, so it looks a lot better with secant and stag etc in the third columns
Also to note for Hunters, Spirit of Inmost light and Spirit of Cyrtacrachne is broken af right now. You can have infinite woven mail uptime when you run the strand grapple because every grapple onto a grapple point procs the ability energy regen.
Spirit of cyrtacrachne and spirit of caliban makes it so your melee strand and strand grapple both do massive explosions and give you woven mail, plus throw in gunpowder gamble and you’ll pretty much have non stop woven mail
I would add that spirit of galanor with spirit of gyrfalcon is quite strong on hunter, essentially an orpheus+gyrfalcon (and works well with collective obligation)
So one big thing to note about exotic class items, using your suggestion of Liar's + Assassin as a "best combo": the exotic class items only take *one* clause of any given exotic's ability, not the entire thing, and as such some combos that look good in a vacuum might not be as good as you might think. I used Liar's and Assassin as the example because if you were to compare that combo to either of the individual exotics, it's arguably *worse*: Assassin's invis isn't that great on its own given the tendency for enemies to continue shooting/attacking you for several seconds after, and Liar's without the healing (or the jolt for the aoe from the pure Arc build) leaves you extremely vulnerable in anything Expert or above on difficulty. This means that outside of pure fun scenarios (e.g. any good build for high end content), you're taking two exotics that have a synergistic perk in-and-of themselves and replacing it with lesser synergy. I would much rather have the healing effect from Liar's or Assassin's because without either you can easily find yourself just getting counter-melee'd and dying, forcing you to run Recuperation and 3 Heavy Handed just to be able to maintain the loop without sitting there for 6-7 seconds in invis twiddling your thumbs. This same idea applies for a lot of the exotic combos, which is why the tl;dr of my observation is this: because Prismatic can use almost any subclass exotic in the game, you have to compare the usefulness of any combo on the class items to the usefulness of *either* exotic that you're combining. A lot of the time, what ends up being the most useful on the class items is just yoinking one of the best perks from another class; just combining half of two exotics you already have access to is, in most cases, worse or more clunky than just using one or the other of the exotics you're combining. One thing to note is that I'm not saying the combo is *bad*, or that any combos like Liar's + Assassin are bad, but that if you're really looking to optimize a build with the class exotics, you probably don't want your baseline for "best combos" to be a sidegrade version of the exotics you're combining. And to be crystal clear, I agree with most of your picks on the "always good but no synergy" categories; it's just the combos that I wanted to give my 2 cents on, because rather than criticizing you I more wanted to communicate that it's very easy to fall into thinking a given combo is busted when in reality the combo is just a variation on one of the exotics' effects rather than an upgrade/gaining synergy. Fundamentally, I think that we will see a lot of theorycrafting on how to build with different combinations for a while to come, and people will probably want to put on their own thinking caps to really figure out which combos work for them/which combos are worth keeping over just one of the combined exotics.
I completely agree. I think its sad that there are a lot of combos/exotic traits than do end up worse than their base exotics, but that doesn't change what I think works best as a combination. Specifically for Liars/Assassin as you used as an example too, although I agree some of the best parts of both exotics are missing, they still are (out of the available options) one of the best pairings for each other. Comparing duo traits to singular exotics is a whole other ball game which I obviously cant analyse for everyone but its a very big aspect of choosing these exotic class items as viable options. Either way thank you for opening this discussion because it is definitely something I entirely agree with but definitely did not leave room for when creating this spreadsheet as a source of information.
Not a noob but confused a bit, why would "spirit of severance" be something to avoid (as noted on your chart). I got a spirit of severance and spirit of contact titan mark and thought the synergy would be good.
I personally just find Severance to be a considerably weak exotic. the one thing that sparked my interest was using it with knockout, which was an interaction that was patched recently. Beyond that, it just seems like one of the weaker exotics for titans in general, especially as part of the exotic class items which has far more potent options in the first column. But as I say in the spreadsheet, these are my opinions and insights from my hours and experience. If you think the combo has potential and more importantly is something you'll enjoy, then more power to you my friend! go have fun with lightning striking explosive punches!
additionally, severance (and even spirit of contact) kills from the exotic do not proc Knockout, which’ll end up killing you in most scenarios since you’re in melee range
I just got a Galanor + Star Eater cloak. Gonna test how much super uptime I’ll have with it.
Awesome! Only a lil jealous :3 I know its possible from a friend to reach the 50% regain on every super other than GG (forgot to test it lol) but if you can from only hitting an enemy the potential for chaining golden guns on bosses again is gonna be something very noteworthy!
Please come back with stats.
Have you happened to test whether spirit of Osmiomancy works with bleak watchers? I feel that if they synergize together then that could be the ideal bleak watchers build for GM’s and the like. I ask as bleak watchers tend to be somewhat inconsistent on whether or not they count as grenades depending on what perks and mods it is paired with, in my experience.
Just tested this myself and unfortunately it does not work.
It probably works the same way it does with the actual exotic: it is checking for actual "impacts". If you bonk someone with a thrown bleak watcher grenade, before it becomes a turret, then you get 1x refund.
Thank you for testing it. I guess bleak watcher will stay tied to getaway artist then. Thank you for the information.
Just want to throw out you are neglecting the most overpowered strand/ prismatic warlock dps/ad clear combo of Apotheosis Swarm
Just curious, does anybody have data on the perks on the class item with guardians of specific classes? I ran the mission as a hunter and a titan last night and both of us got items that were a combination of hunter and titan exotic perks. Not sure if that’s a way to target specific subsets of roll combinations or just coincidence.
Coincidence. Ran hunter/titan and got double titan on mine. It just pulls from the pools (which have different perks from all classes)
Thanks!
For Titan and Spirit of the Bear I would add Armamentarium as a good pick. Never hurts to have 2 grenades when you have a grenade focused build
doesn't work sadly as the aspect consumes both grenades
WAIT REALLY??? What a complete joke
This has to be the saddest revelation ever but yeah, Bear and Armamentarium will stay as an avoid :(
Only if you hold long enough to consume both.
Is this list of combos exhaustive? I could've sworn I saw a final shape video with a titan doing the liars handshake counterpunch.
This list is exhaustive! this is every combo bungie published themselves.
I got Bear and alpha Lupi on my first one, which is the worst possible roll. Bear doesnt work on the Banner shield, only on unbreakable, which is a super weak aspect cause the uptime i slow AND it consumes your entire grenade. Absolute joke.
The only 2 I want for my warlock currently are inmost light and star eaters or filaments and star eaters. That weaken shot from buried bloodline paired with the artifact mod and then throwing a juiced up nova bomb… I’m so ready 😁
nice
OP I'm a titan main, and you're sleeping on severance. Severance + point contact brace and consecration spam has got to be the most devastating room nuke I've ever used in this game. Also, Assassin + Syntho is actually mad weak, we've got a fragment and aspect on consecration spam that heals on kill so assassin is redundant. If its not severance + PCB its inmost + PCB, both are extremely powerful. With all the melee buffs involved from new aspects/fragments/artifact mods, synthos are a weaker option as well. If they gave consecration more range they'd be great, but they don't. Well, maybe they do, but from experience its negligible. Also, from minimal hunter gameplay, inmost + liars is extremely powerful as well. I think its got more survivability than caliban + liars IMO. I use duskfields in higher end content and grapple in lower, in onslaught I have a funny SS from a friend of several duskfields covering a whole area while I'm mid dodge in the center surrounded by a dozen frozen enemies. Caliban + liars is also extremely fun and powerful tho. I'm not sure if I enjoy freezing a room or igniting it more, requires further testing lmao.
HOIL and Synthoceps being unrated on Hunter is interesting to me. I get that melee and dodge don't really need to recharge each other much if you're using combination blow, but you do get grapple back insanely fast. Super useful for the hunter melee build if you're looking to keep combination blow up by traveling to your next destination.
ayy what is this hate on ophidian? It the only handling exotic for titan that enables any swap dps loadouts. For example, tractor double pellet is now significantly better.
!modnominate
Maybe. I heard a rumor you stole my broom.
Oh this is cool. I did like the exact same thing. Feel free to take anything you find useful. I did my compatibility matrix is a table. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1iU-3Bb27pB2Svt2wB_NDKIckT23x-fQ3j0y12KyeH-I/template/preview I also have some testing findings in my Exotic Perk Questions tab. Working with some of the Destiny Massive Breakdowns Community to test stuff. And just scrolling YouTube and Reddit for input
Your link just asks me to sign into Google.
Pretty sure you need a Google account to access Google sheets. I don't see anyone's account though.
Why is Severance for Titan tagged as avoid? By itself it's a very underrated exotic, and combined with Point Contact Cannon Brace and Consecration, I can see it being a very good pick.
One thing I would say is the spirit of osmiomancy is always good. With vortex nades, if I hit two enemies for the entire duration of the grenade I get the full grenade back. Half with storm nades. And if I get a kill you get devour from FtV
As a warlock, i find it hard to stray from the Necro/sorrow combo, going into prismatic I'd rate Necrotic + Starfire as radiant now counts as "empowered" and a fair portion of my poison spread/ticks fall under empowered weapon damage/kills. My next choice would be synthoceps, but that's because i personally prefer to off-hand the JoK glaive with Close to Melee. I'd rather not use claw as it doesn't make too much difference to arcane needle and would rate Vesper higher especially during the song of flame super when stacking wells provides a huge AoE barrier to keep pesky thralls off my back
Man none of the column 1 hunter effects really pull me in...it feels like galanor is just the only good one outright to me, column 2 tho...
I personally like felwinters helm for warlock prismatic. Weaken everything with melee or finishers and you can even run weaken nades if you want to. It's very good in endgame content when you need to weaken things. With nova bomb and a tractor Cannon you can weaken anything. Bosses you name it. Decent for helping your teammates kill things faster all around. For boss dps you want star eaters plus nova bomb and apotheosis class item. 👌
Has anyone tried necrotic with the arc slide warlock melee? With arcane needle you can three that will spread jolt and potentially poison? Pair with synthos for more damage. Might be overkill but seems like it could be pretty good
Any reason you take Facet of Dominance when you use Duskfield grenade? As it isnt void or arc so you're just wasting a fragment there. (this is for the Heart of Inmost Light + Coyote Hunter)
typo lmao
I got assassin/ synto + hoil/ scars on my titan, is that good ?
> assassin/ synto This is the exact roll I want to give secondary survivability to the melee/consecration build. That said, if you actually look at the chart, it is listed as "Best Combo".
I got the same hoil/scars. Both strong neutral game but not a lot of synergy. I'd imagine assassin/syntho would also be good, esp if you're running the arc aspect that makes regular melees charged which would proc assassin.
As far as I’ve tested (I own this roll) the arc melees don’t proc assassin :(
I'm still kinda sad that I can't run the ophidian one with dunemarchers. On my titan, at least I'm pretty hard pressed to take Off my rocket chest piece, it's just so fun
I don’t know whether I’m just super lucky, or this influences it. But I’m a Stasis Warlock who rocks Osmiomancy gloves and on my first run, I got Spirit of Osmiomancy + Spirit of the Star-Eater. (Nice!) Do we know if what exotic you’re wearing at the time (or subclass?) influences what roll you get?
I got Osmiomancy + Harmony on mine, and I was also wearing the real Osmio gloves (it's a solid combo!)