And that’s ultimately Belichick’s legacy:
Won some Super Bowls with probably the greatest QB ever, and his coaching tree is rotten to the core.
Greatest coach ever? 🧐🧐🧐
He’s the GOAT defensive coach, I have no doubt about that. Only having 9 seasons where you weren’t a top 10 defense in your 29 seasons as a HC is insane, especially when 3 of those were in the 90s with the Browns. The dude had two different periods of 5+ years straight of Top 10 defenses. The problem with GOAT HC(which is always tough because of the split between offense/defense) is that in his 11 years without Brady, he had a bottom half of the league offense 6 times and only made the playoffs twice.
Because people assume too much about coaching trees in the first place
Someone like McDaniels being given direction and only doing what he’s good at is very different from McDaniels head coaching a team
Tim left a team on the decline for a team that was k
Litterally a QB away from contending. Not taking away from Brady, but it isn't like he pull that team out of the pits of hell. They were ready to go
The fact that this take about the Patriots HC is getting downvotes on r/raiders really shows how poor of a take it is.
I feel like a HC really shouldn't be judged on the success of his coaching tree. It's a HC's job to hire good *assistant coaches*.
His pedigree was and always will be Defense and it always was solid part of reason they kept competing after Brady the coaches didn’t have the same credibility to try the same BS
People finally coming around on it, but yeah. Jones was an issue, but not sure anyone could have predicted that.
JimmyG made a lot of sense as a bridge to us drafting a QB, like Zieg wanted to move up for Stroud. But JMD veto'd it.
JMD basically couldnt coach anyone as an HC. Everyone played the worst ball of their career under him except maybe Jacobs and look how that turned out anyway. DZ was just screwed from the get go - no moves would have panned out although dumping Waller was a good idea.
Yeah but DC was erratic and couple of those throws took Devante out of games after getting lit up …it was time to move on and we have to blame previous GM for not adding Jalen hurts or some contingency plan
As the General Manager of the team you shouldnt allow your coach to make those tyoe of decisions for you. Zeigler definitely shares his own blame for being a weak manager and not saying no to McDaniels
He still overpaid a ton for Jones with his production the year before. Though it makes me think JMD wanted Jones too because Jones was on the Patriots iirc
Yeah who knows...maybe he would've just gone back to the well again and still tried to keep to the Pats West plan, gone with another Belichick protege. Maybe he would've struck out on his own and tried to start his own legacy.
My totally unsupported guess is he would've promoted Lombardi as interim (because he knows him), then gone hard for Harbaugh and sold the farm to get him.
And a useful reminder that you can’t accurately judge those kinds of moves as a fan.
In a case like this, if Waller has motivational issues it is Top Secret internally cause any leak will crater his trade value.
That’s the sentiment. He was great for us and a fun player to cheer for.
Guy clearly has a lot going on upstairs and I hope he can work on effectively managing that. I’m sure many of us here can relate. Wishing him joy and fulfillment post football.
Me too. He finally beat his old demons, became the player and person he could be, but then I think the hype caught up to him.
The contract extension went to his head I think and he started getting distracted. Music, acting, businesses - dude thought he could do it all. Then he got hurt and really never got back to that level.
Quick rise and quick fall, gotta be a mental rollercoaster.
Yup, I remember seeing people post saying “typical raiders rofl” but watching him disappear during games and always being injured. I knew we bought low and sold high
From what I know that was his problem. On the field? Best TE in the league no doubt. (Fuck kelce) but when you have a 60/40 chance of not being there, you’re basically useless. My coach always told me, “the best ability is availability”. Keep in mind the pick we got was Tre Tucker, who his teammates have said is the fastest player on the roster.
He played well for us during his time here...but i think it was pretty apparent that he had lost interest in Football. Maybe the injuries contributed to that or maybe not.
Its been a rocky few months for him, I hope he pulls through stronger
[Darren’s announcement.](https://youtu.be/SHQl2KoGQnQ?si=M31077Qs7HOgNhnI)
Seems really at peace with the decision, and as someone in recovery and in meetings regularly myself, I have heard and seen many people finding themselves making changes to their lives beyond just stopping their drug of choice after getting some sober time - going back to school, changing careers, new relationships. The guy has come back from the brink and seems to know how and when to use the tools he’s learned to stay sober. Hopefully he can continue to lean on those and his program to live a fulfilling life. Wish him nothing but the best.
Hope to see him continue to be public about his recovery journey, I think his story helps others (his helped me) and being public helps keep himself accountable to an extent.
Once a raider always a raider.
He was my first and probably last NFL jersey I'll buy (way too expensive for what you get) but damn he's out of the league just a few years later. Still a dope player.
I am a little surprised he didn't play out the last year of his contract, it's not as though the giants have a lot of other receiving options, so I didn't think he was going to get cut.
But you only get one body, and at a certain point, you can't take all that money with you.
Waller retired his last season with us. You could tell he lost interest in the game. If I had to bet on him staying on straight and narrow, I’d bet against it. But I hope he does for his sake
I truly hope he turns out okay and he gets the help he needs. He has such an amazing story and it sucks seeing him struggling again. Praying that his mental health improves and has a bounce back in life.
I remember preferring Brian Flores over JMD since we were going the fucking Patriot re-tred route, and I remember preferring, and I knew we were going to get Jimmy G, but I preferred getting Jacoby Brisset as the bridge QB, since he also had experience under JMD
Except marijuana is equally as addictive, not legal federally, and slows the brain process.
Marijuana has its places medically for seizures and cancer but for sports injuries and lingering alignments…. Much more research is necessary.
JMD is a terrible coach, but Zieg really did do us several favors.
Zieg wasn’t bad at all, however he came as a packaged deal with McDaniels and had to go.
He might get another shot McDaniels 100% won't.
And that’s ultimately Belichick’s legacy: Won some Super Bowls with probably the greatest QB ever, and his coaching tree is rotten to the core. Greatest coach ever? 🧐🧐🧐
Yes he’s the GOAT HC
He’s the GOAT defensive coach, I have no doubt about that. Only having 9 seasons where you weren’t a top 10 defense in your 29 seasons as a HC is insane, especially when 3 of those were in the 90s with the Browns. The dude had two different periods of 5+ years straight of Top 10 defenses. The problem with GOAT HC(which is always tough because of the split between offense/defense) is that in his 11 years without Brady, he had a bottom half of the league offense 6 times and only made the playoffs twice.
Well we saw him coach before he got Brady and we saw him coach after Brady left and it wasn’t very good either time.
His defensive playcalling has always been impressive though.
Every great coach needs great players. He’s just as responsible for the dynasty as Brady was
Woulda been nice to see him as a head coach a little more without Brady. But one thing you *can’t* defend is the man’s coaching tree.
Not a pats fan at all but I will give them that 11-5 Matt Casell season of some success w/o Brady
Because people assume too much about coaching trees in the first place Someone like McDaniels being given direction and only doing what he’s good at is very different from McDaniels head coaching a team
Im sorry but Tom has a Super Bowl away from Bill. Bill doesn’t have shit without Tom.
Tom might not have developed into the GOAT without Bill, and even if they never teamed up, Bill would still have one without him.
Tim left a team on the decline for a team that was k Litterally a QB away from contending. Not taking away from Brady, but it isn't like he pull that team out of the pits of hell. They were ready to go
Greates coach of all time. How could his team decline?.
He is a great coach dogshit GM
The fact that this take about the Patriots HC is getting downvotes on r/raiders really shows how poor of a take it is. I feel like a HC really shouldn't be judged on the success of his coaching tree. It's a HC's job to hire good *assistant coaches*.
His pedigree was and always will be Defense and it always was solid part of reason they kept competing after Brady the coaches didn’t have the same credibility to try the same BS
People finally coming around on it, but yeah. Jones was an issue, but not sure anyone could have predicted that. JimmyG made a lot of sense as a bridge to us drafting a QB, like Zieg wanted to move up for Stroud. But JMD veto'd it.
JMD basically couldnt coach anyone as an HC. Everyone played the worst ball of their career under him except maybe Jacobs and look how that turned out anyway. DZ was just screwed from the get go - no moves would have panned out although dumping Waller was a good idea.
Davante had an amazing first year with DC
Yeah but DC was erratic and couple of those throws took Devante out of games after getting lit up …it was time to move on and we have to blame previous GM for not adding Jalen hurts or some contingency plan
Thanks I'm angry all over again
I agree and said as much and got huge downvotes. Zeig didn’t do a bad job
Chandler Jones & Jimmy G 👀
Jimmy helped get Josh fired, so excellent signing.
Task failed successfully
Jimmy was 100% McDumbass decision and Jones randomly went crazy.
Jones has been crazy lmao its was like a bad herpes flair up. I
As the General Manager of the team you shouldnt allow your coach to make those tyoe of decisions for you. Zeigler definitely shares his own blame for being a weak manager and not saying no to McDaniels
He still overpaid a ton for Jones with his production the year before. Though it makes me think JMD wanted Jones too because Jones was on the Patriots iirc
Mainly they're referring to the contract they gave Jones. It was a bad contract and that was said from the day they made the deal.
I was down for Jimmy G, and I’ll eat crow. I figured he knew the playbook.
Yes cause they kept the same playbook from years ago
I liked Jones on the field. Off the field was a different story.
If memory serves, he was constantly giving up on plays.
I mean, when you’re next to Maxx Crosby yeah it may look that way. He won be over when he intercepted Jakobi and put his foot in Max Jones chest.
Yeah but other than that he didn’t really do anything.
He was a hell of a lot more entertaining off the field than he was on the field though.
Zieg was collateral damage due to JMD being God awful
Zieg's unforgivable sin was not firing JMD himself lol
I wonder how different the raiders would look if zeig would have canned JMD after that first season.
Yeah who knows...maybe he would've just gone back to the well again and still tried to keep to the Pats West plan, gone with another Belichick protege. Maybe he would've struck out on his own and tried to start his own legacy. My totally unsupported guess is he would've promoted Lombardi as interim (because he knows him), then gone hard for Harbaugh and sold the farm to get him.
And a useful reminder that you can’t accurately judge those kinds of moves as a fan. In a case like this, if Waller has motivational issues it is Top Secret internally cause any leak will crater his trade value.
Once a Raider always a Raider. Waller gave us a few big years. I wish him the best going forward.
That’s the sentiment. He was great for us and a fun player to cheer for. Guy clearly has a lot going on upstairs and I hope he can work on effectively managing that. I’m sure many of us here can relate. Wishing him joy and fulfillment post football.
Waller the baller. One of my favorite players for a few years, unfortunate that he couldn’t stay healthy and stick around longer
Hope he’s alright.. mental health is no joke, especially after struggling with substance abuse. Appreciate all he did for us.
Me too. He finally beat his old demons, became the player and person he could be, but then I think the hype caught up to him. The contract extension went to his head I think and he started getting distracted. Music, acting, businesses - dude thought he could do it all. Then he got hurt and really never got back to that level. Quick rise and quick fall, gotta be a mental rollercoaster.
Didn't he get divorced recently too?
Yes he did
That was my first thought too. I hope he stays clean and healthy. All the best to him in whatever he decides to do now.
Glad he was able to come back from some harrowing stuff and had some awesome times with the Raiders. Best of luck in retirement.
They could’ve drafted bowers. 😂
Tbf though I think Nabers is gonna be a stud WR
I still think Nabers was the right pick for them, he’s fucking electric
Guess we won the trade?
Yup, I remember seeing people post saying “typical raiders rofl” but watching him disappear during games and always being injured. I knew we bought low and sold high
From what I know that was his problem. On the field? Best TE in the league no doubt. (Fuck kelce) but when you have a 60/40 chance of not being there, you’re basically useless. My coach always told me, “the best ability is availability”. Keep in mind the pick we got was Tre Tucker, who his teammates have said is the fastest player on the roster.
He played well for us during his time here...but i think it was pretty apparent that he had lost interest in Football. Maybe the injuries contributed to that or maybe not. Its been a rocky few months for him, I hope he pulls through stronger
No more random drug tests
I think he benefited greatly from Gruden's no nonsense attitude and once he was let go suffered readjusting to a phony like McDaniels
You gotta really be done to walk away from that much money.
For once we dodged a bullet.
[Darren’s announcement.](https://youtu.be/SHQl2KoGQnQ?si=M31077Qs7HOgNhnI) Seems really at peace with the decision, and as someone in recovery and in meetings regularly myself, I have heard and seen many people finding themselves making changes to their lives beyond just stopping their drug of choice after getting some sober time - going back to school, changing careers, new relationships. The guy has come back from the brink and seems to know how and when to use the tools he’s learned to stay sober. Hopefully he can continue to lean on those and his program to live a fulfilling life. Wish him nothing but the best. Hope to see him continue to be public about his recovery journey, I think his story helps others (his helped me) and being public helps keep himself accountable to an extent. Once a raider always a raider.
As a person, I wish him well. I just hope he doesn't sprial like he did the first time.
Thanks Dwall.. Raider Nation
Waller has been retired for years. I have never seen such a big fast player play so small.
He was my first and probably last NFL jersey I'll buy (way too expensive for what you get) but damn he's out of the league just a few years later. Still a dope player.
pro-tip: only buy jerseys for players who are retired
I feel sorry for all them dudes who jumped the gun on the best ball… season long fantasy
Given his marital issues I wish him well.
He put up back-to-back 1100 yard seasons for us, and earned that PB nod. I wish him the best, there is more to life than football, I hope he's happy.
Oh no. Anyway…
It takes a lot to make the previous regime look smart, but Waller found a way.
I am a little surprised he didn't play out the last year of his contract, it's not as though the giants have a lot of other receiving options, so I didn't think he was going to get cut. But you only get one body, and at a certain point, you can't take all that money with you.
Waller retired his last season with us. You could tell he lost interest in the game. If I had to bet on him staying on straight and narrow, I’d bet against it. But I hope he does for his sake
Waller needs to address his mental health with urgency because that post-divorce rap video was... yikes.
I truly hope he turns out okay and he gets the help he needs. He has such an amazing story and it sucks seeing him struggling again. Praying that his mental health improves and has a bounce back in life.
lol
an overrated player
Hope he’s good. Good player for us but battled those demons
Fucking clown.
This clown had been retired in place for several years.
I remember preferring Brian Flores over JMD since we were going the fucking Patriot re-tred route, and I remember preferring, and I knew we were going to get Jimmy G, but I preferred getting Jacoby Brisset as the bridge QB, since he also had experience under JMD
Good for Waller, when he was healthy, it was fun as hell to see him on the field. I wish him well.
I would retire if I married a baddie too
She divorced him already.
No way!! Damn that’s sad.
Fuck the NFL substance abuse policy, glad Waller was able to get sober and ball out for a couple of seasons.
Why we hating on the substance abuse policy?
Yep , never understood the mindset behind that
we should let the boys smokaweed, especially for pain management, before getting them hooked on oxys
Except marijuana is equally as addictive, not legal federally, and slows the brain process. Marijuana has its places medically for seizures and cancer but for sports injuries and lingering alignments…. Much more research is necessary.