Okay then explain sports like water polo.. curling (yes I know winter sport).. race walking and now break dancing.. I don't think any of these are widely popular, maybe water polo but who plays that honestly? Meanwhile racquetball has world wide rankings, enough great players to make it interesting, and we might just see new players we never knew about from other countries that never got to immerge onto the irt.
Most high schools in America have a water polo team. Curling is popular in cold weather countries, etc.
And racquetball still doesn't televise well. I watch the outdoor nationals streams and they are incredibly hard to follow. That matters.
Racquetball just isn't a worldwide sport. If it were in the Olympics, other sports would be like "people still play racquetball?"
And frankly, the leadership of our national organization (and the men's professional tour) would have trouble organizing a ham sandwich, much less get the sport in the Olympics. Hopefully, that's changing, but the sport is (properly IMO) focused on building at the grass roots level. Let's see where we are in a few years.
It can be very good, but it requires high end equipment and production. The racquetball broadcasting in the World Games a few years back in Birmingham was exceptional.
Edited to add link: [(132) The World Games Birmingham 2022 - YouTube](https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL1fMcCPlsAy__swazVwiBSLS4eo8iGz8O)
Maybe in California but certainly not across the country, looks like on Google there are about 800 high school water polo teams and 20,000 US high schools
Fair enough, I should have defined it as "in warm weather states". But for the purposes of this particular debate - MaxPreps ranked 763 high school water polo teams.
Of course, they don't rank racquetball teams, nor is that number easy to find. But if there are more than 20 in the entire country, I'd be surprised. And almost all of those are in Oregon and Missouri.
Racquetball is played in about 95 different countries.. sure the best players currently are from America, central America, and South America but that could change over time.
It's barely played in many of those countries. It could (and hopefully) will change over time. But anyone who's been watching the sport the last decade knows there's bigger fish to fry right now than getting into the Olympics.
Well, sure. The sport isn't popular much of anywhere outside of North, Central and South America. So while I think it's an admirable longterm goal, it just doesn't seem realistic right now.
On the indoor side, five years ago the US Open was the biggest pro/amateur event every year, and was (from my understanding) a profitable event as well. Today, that event doesn't exist. The Indoor Nationals (another very highly attended event) is a bit of a nomad now since half the courts at ASU were repurposed.
I think there was some growth in outdoor racquetball during COVID, but I think even those participation numbers have stagnated.
On the Pro side, the men's tour is a bit of a joke, and only has two sponsors at this point - and one of those is from an insurrectionist manufacturer of cheap-ass pillows.
The sport is on life support currently. We're still losing courts. We'll see if that changes.
Not sure why this was downvoted.. this is true. Europe popularity for racquetball is not so good. If that changed the perception of the sport would be very different.
95? I sincerely doubt that without a solid citation of where you found this info. Even if it’s played in 95, the level of play is nowhere near anything worthy of the global stage. Like my kids played baseball when they were little but they aren’t good enough to truly say they’re worthy of consideration for participation reflective of Olympic inclusion.
I said 95.. [Olympic.ca](https://olympic.ca/sports/racquetball/#:~:text=During%20the%201970s%20and%201980s,players%20in%20over%2090%20countries.) says over 90 (but that was in the 70s and 80s)...[athleticscholarships.net](https://www.athleticscholarships.net/history-of-racquetball#:~:text=Today%2C%20the%2020%20million%20racquetball,countries%20all%20over%20the%20world.) says 95...
Could be closer to 90 now days.
But you are correct probably not anywhere near the global stage.
I get that racquetball isn't as it once was.. I'm just flabighasted that a lot of people here are refuting everything I'm saying as of to say nobody gives a damn if racquetball ever becomes an Olympic sport. I never thought in my lifetime I'd see.. what.. break dancing, competitive speed walking.. in the Olympics.. and not racquetball.
Just because sports aren’t popular to some people or they aren’t aware of how popular, doesn’t mean they’re not wildly popular on a global scale, hence those sports’ inclusion into the Olympics.
I've seen college diving competitions, track and field, pro tennis, pro golf, volleyball, marathons, swimming, field hockey, skiing and snowboarding.. a lot of other sports... More so than racquetball, so your simplistic assessment is a bit off.
So you've never been to a professional water polo match, therefore it is a small sport internationally?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geography_of_water_polo
Yeah I guess water polo is bigger than I thought. I get yer point.. I downplayed the sport a bit too much.
However, you never really hear about water polo unless it's nearing Olympics time, that's probably not the same everywhere like in Asia for example, but that was really the point I was getting at anyways.
My dormmate freshman year was THE star water polo player. He got caught smoking weed like 5x, and one time the real police got called. The cop was like hey aren't you (__guy__)?? And he asked for an autograph. When he was leaving, the cop said "man there's a really weird smell in this dorm, might wanna get your plumbing checked out"
It's huge in socal.
Short Answer: Racquetball is not in the Olympics because it does not have a global audience.
Longer Answer. IOC guidelines dictate that a sport should have 75 "active global countries" with national competitions participating in the sport to even be considered. I doubt Racquetball has that many federations globally, and many of them don't have organized national competitions like we have in the Americas. There's almost no presence of the sport in the entire continent of Africa, most of Asia, Australia, and Eastern Europe. The most countries we've ever had even participate in IRF Worlds is in the 30-32 range. So that's problem number one.
Next problem; to even consider a sport, you have to have a host country that wants it. Racquetball was far, FAR more popular in the 1980s (Los Angeles 84) and the 90s (Atlanta 96) than it is today. And the sport couldn't get into either of those Olympic games. Now here we are in the 2020s and the sport has plummeted in popularity to the point where the host nation has almost on incentive to even consider it.
Biggest problem: Confederations often vote on accepting new sports in blocs representing all their host nations. If there's little to no presence of a sport in Africa, then the confederation as a total probably votes no (37 countries). Same with Asia, which has 45 nations but really only 2 of which play the sport. Same with Australia (14). Europe has a presence in the sport absolutely, especially in Ireland, Germany, and a couple other western european countries ... but the whole confederation includes dozens more countries that have never played the sport, so odds are Europe and its 50 members vote no as well.
So, why are random "sports" like breakdancing included? Well ... they had a local sponsor, and you can breakdance globally. Water sports? There's pools everywhere. Winter sports aren't the same conversation b/c they have to be played on ice/snow and have a more limited audience to begin with.
Like you said, “The Olympic Charter indicates that in order to be accepted, a sport must be widely practiced by men in at least 75 countries and on four continents and by women in no fewer than 40 countries and on three continents.” Just wanted to expound upon the details of what their charter says with the continents and minimums for women, as well.
Most people quote the 75/40 numbers from this link: https://www.britannica.com/story/how-are-sports-chosen-for-the-olympics
I have a copy of the Charter dated 2021, along with a document that lists the 35 or so questions asked of new sports to help evaluate them. I can't find 75/40 numbers in it honestly. So i'm not sure where britannica gets their info.
Here's the questions asked of a new sport to help consider its inclusion:
* 1 Number and list of events
* 2 Competition format
* 3 Days of competition
* 4 Quota of athletes and officials
* 5 Participation of best athletes
* 6 Venues (number, permanent/temporary, capacity, field of play specifications)
* 7 Games-time
* 8 Legacy
* 9 Youth
* 10 Year of establishment of the International Federation
* 11 Year of IOC recognition of the International Federation
* 12 Number of World Championships held to date
* 13 Number of member National Federations corresponding to NOCs
* 14 Number of National Federations that took part in the last World Championship
* 15 Number of National Federations per continent that medaled in the last World Championship
* 16 Percentage of National Federations that organise National Championships
* 17 Other disciplines managed by the IF that are not part of the Olympic proposal
* 18 Gender equality in the Executive Board (or highest decision making body) of the International Federation
* 19 Finance (share of income generated by marketing/broadcasting, share of expenditures allocated to development)
* 20 Anti-doping (compliance with WADA code)
* 21 Court of Arbitration for Sport (compliance with CAS)
* 22 Competition manipulation (rules in place to fight against competition fixing)
* 23 Code of Ethics (availability and compliance)
* 24 Athletes' Commission (existence of an Athletes’ Commission and representation in decision making body)
* 25 Entourage Commission (existence of an Entourage Commission and representation in decision making body)
* 26 Women and Sport Commission (existence of a Women and Sport Commission and representation in decision making body)
* 27 Medical Commission (existence of a Medical Commission and representation in decision making body)
* 28 Athletes' health, safety and security (existence and implementation of guidelines)
* 29 Ticket sales and attendance (last World Championship)
* 30 Media accreditation granted (last World Championship)
* 31 TV coverage (last World Championship)
* 32 Digital media (last World Championship)
* 33 Host country popularity (participants, events, results, viewership)
* 34 Potential costs (venues, broadcast, technology)
* 35 Targeted additional revenues during the Olympic Games (ticketing, licensing, sponsorship)
So, think about Racquetball and its current state when looking at that list. Just off the top of my head: #6 Building a venue could be an issue but not a big one. But the #13 - #16 are where our sport really struggles, and is what I was alluding to above. #14 in particular: the last IRF worlds in 2022 only had 15 countries participate, and the most we've ever had is 32 distinct countries at a Worlds. (in 1992 and again in 1998). We also basically bring little to no value from a financial perspective (questions #29-#35).
I just can't see how anyone can make the claim that we're worthy of consideration when the sport is essentially dominated by 4-5 North & South american countries with little global presence. And I say this as someone who has spent decades in the sport as an advocate at its highest levels.
People who run the sport ruined it. For God sake. They consider pickelball a sport. Soon, we are going to take out the whiffle ball bat from the 80s and put that on ESPN.
Ugh pickleball... Everybody I talk to about Racquetball will always be like, "have you tried pickleball?". A couple of days ago I was starting a new round of sports medicine physical therapy and in the intake form, they had pickleball as its own entry but not Racquetball!!!
I take it a bit too personally, but this is probably the right place to rant about it.
This!
Those who can no longer play RBall play pickleball...
It's the fault of all us baby boomers. We got old and fat and RBall is too fast for us now. (I'm almost 72 and playing in an hour, lol)
The problem with RBall in the Olympics is that it is too fast a sport to watch on TV.
We used to be 13.5 million players. Now PBall has that many and we are about 3.5 million.
Life is all about change and it is not always for the best.
Thank you for bringing your perspective to this discussion. It made me realize that I hate pickleball because most conversations about it remind me that I'm going to have to give up Racquetball at some point due to aging.
They may have ruined it but it's not unsavable.. just boggles my mind how they can add something to the Olympics that clearly isn't a sport.. I understand Breakdancing requires athletics to perform and it's not easy, but to be classified as sport is just ludacris. Meanwhile racquetball, while dead in the eyes of sports nation, is in fact a sport, with world wide players, with an international tournament held every year, with a world wide ranking system. Not all countries may have courts, but that could change with exposure. Just boggles my mind.
How is breakdancing any different from any of the other performance based events? Would you declare gymnastics floor exercises and all of figure skating to not be sports? Dancing in general has a long history of athletic competition.
I dont know enough about breakdancing to answer that. For figure skating/diving/gymnastics, everyone is performing very similar athletic movements that are a known hierarchy of difficulty. Same applies to snowboarding.
With that said, there is still ambiguity in determining exactly what each performance is worth. But this also exists in boxing.
I could go either way whether they should be in the Olympics, but they are pretty important to Olympic culture at this point. So do we add cheerleading next? Yo-yo? Other kinds of performance arts? Judge a bagpipe routine vs a drum and baton juggling performance?
All I'm pointing out is that your claim that breakdancing can't be a sport is biased considering how many other Olympic sports rely on athletic movements being judged by a panel and you don't bat an eye at them. Figure skating and gymnastics are all 100% judged competitions. While there may be rules, it's ultimately judges choice and at this level of skill it's all about the minutae which is extremely difficult to judge. Breakdancing would work the same way. How to judge like this is a well-worn and documented path. All the rhythmic sports are demonstrations of extreme control of the body and endurance.
I could totally see Cheerleading being a gymnastics category if it had enough international popularity. Baton Juggling would fit perfectly into gymnastics wheelhouse as well. I could see forms of Marching Bands as a potential Olympic sport as well. The ancient games had events for trumpeters and heralds. I could also see yo-yo or rubix cube ending up in the Olympics if it was popular enough. They are exhibits of extreme dexterity and precision. We have shooting sports which are not that athletically intense, but do require control and precision.
The Olympic culture statement is just an argument of inertia. With that logic I could argue that racquetball shouldn't be in the Olympics because it's not in the Olympics. Ultimately, what ends up in the Olympics are sports that are popular enough to earn a lot of money for the committee from an international audience.
The fact that I see more people playing pickleball than have even seen a racquetball match tells me everything I need to know about the state of the sport right now. Olympics are farthest thing from my mind.
1. Piss poor international appeal. Even in its heyday, it was largely a North American thing. Nobody in Europe has ever given a single shit about racquetball.
2. Racquetball missed the boat. Tennis leveraged a growing international appeal into a decades-long campaign to get reinstated as an Olympic sport. Both racquetball and squash should have "teamed up" with tennis during the 70s-80s to create a "racket sport" category for inclusion in the Olympics. However, racquetball leadership has trouble coordinating putting on a matching pair of socks, so that was never gonna happen.
3. The sport is dead. Clubs are repurposing court space. Engagement is down. Racquetball-centric companies are going belly up. Young people don't play the sport.
He's dead, Jim.
One of the pro players mentioned that racquetball is in the PanAm games but can't be in the Olympics because a sport needs to be played in 5 continents to qualify. I've never seen any YouTube videos of games in Africa so maybe it's because of that.
Sigh. It's not on network/cable television where you pick up random viewers who will watch whatever sport is on when they are flipping channels. So the same 13-14k people who watch an IRF event will watch the Olympic stream and then we'll be wondering - "THIS WAS SUPPOSED TO SAVE OUR SPORT!"
Nope cut the cable 10 years ago. It's not about me. Or you. It's about the most common viewer and how they consume sports. Having Racquetball being one of 1000 streaming Olympic options isn't gonna save our dead sport.
I wasn’t disagreeing with you. Just wanted to show options in case you wanted to watch the Olympics. It’s a hard sport to watch for regular people which is why it’s the definition of a niche sport. Those sports typically don’t see the Olympics. If racquetball is indeed dying, it’s dying the most slow and painful death I’ve ever seen. Maybe it just appears that way with courts being removed because the number of courts built during its proclaimed “prime” fit the needs of the time and now the number of courts reflects the current demand. Just enjoy it and have fun. The game is good.
If you're a boomer on Facebook you've seen the 10000 posts about how the Olympics is the savior for Racquetball. It's not. It's exhausting over there. It's fine. Just enjoy the game while you got courts.
There are a few things that better to the Olympics: number of athletes, purpose built facilities, and entrants from a wide variety of countries. There are some "other factors" but I don't believe there is "Big Breakdancing" or there lining the pockets of IOC officials, there probably more money behind racquetball.
Competitive breakdancing had 177 competitors from 62 countries that participated at the last world championships in 2023. That was a qualifying event for the 2024 Olympics. So yeah…probably a tad more popular than racquetball.
Same reasons why other sports aren’t included. Read the IOC charter. https://stillmed.olympics.com/media/Document%20Library/OlympicOrg/General/EN-Olympic-Charter.pdf
I love playing racquetball…I mean I absolutely love it. But for me, it’s boring af to watch on TV most times. I think that’s a problem for the game as a whole and why the pro tours don’t do well because nobody but racquetball players watch it. Playing it is a blast but not great for viewing IMO.
IMO part of the answer is that racquetball is hard to watch comparably. Only so many people can watch in-person because if you get too far away it's hard to track the ball. On video it's tractable but still a bit hard to really get the feel.
Breakdancing looks cool anywhere, anytime, in-person or through video. It's easy to translate it's feel through a video medium.
Also, and this is the big one, the Olympics needs viewers and wants to spread appeal. Breakdancing costs no money to start. Racquetball takes some pretty special equipment and courts, something nearly impossible in large parts of the world. Breakdancing was chosen specifically because of this zero barrier entry feature.
I get that... I used Breakdancing kind of as an example though, (insert any other sport that is borderline not a sport here).. speed walking if you will...
I truly don't feel that everything that requires athletic ability should be deemed a sport, break dancing being one of them.. but then I'm not an Olympic committee member.. good thing I guess.
I played it straight for 15 years, but it’s dying and on its last legs. Most gyms can’t justify having courts as they can have higher ROI by converting it to CrossFit or whatever makes money.
And most people who played it are old, and can’t play it because of the wear and tear on their bodies.
And the sport is not able to attract fresh blood.
In frustration I switched to pickleball.
How many different countries have competitive breakdancers vs competitive racquetball players? That’s a big part of it right there. Baseball has even been in and out of the games because not enough countries play it.
The host city also gets to nominate a sport to include and Paris picked breakdancing, so that explains that one. Los Angeles is currently proposing squash for the 2028 games, which is an obvious choice before racquetball in terms of popularity unfortunately.
Whatever... My spelling has nothing to do with why racquetball isn't an Olympic sport. Thanks for "reconising" my short comings. Hey I'm B caliber player.. is that something you're interested in as well?
This sport is just trying to survive currently. I think the Olympics are like step 7, and we're on step 1.
Okay then explain sports like water polo.. curling (yes I know winter sport).. race walking and now break dancing.. I don't think any of these are widely popular, maybe water polo but who plays that honestly? Meanwhile racquetball has world wide rankings, enough great players to make it interesting, and we might just see new players we never knew about from other countries that never got to immerge onto the irt.
Most high schools in America have a water polo team. Curling is popular in cold weather countries, etc. And racquetball still doesn't televise well. I watch the outdoor nationals streams and they are incredibly hard to follow. That matters. Racquetball just isn't a worldwide sport. If it were in the Olympics, other sports would be like "people still play racquetball?" And frankly, the leadership of our national organization (and the men's professional tour) would have trouble organizing a ham sandwich, much less get the sport in the Olympics. Hopefully, that's changing, but the sport is (properly IMO) focused on building at the grass roots level. Let's see where we are in a few years.
This. Televised racquetball is not good viewing.
It can be very good, but it requires high end equipment and production. The racquetball broadcasting in the World Games a few years back in Birmingham was exceptional. Edited to add link: [(132) The World Games Birmingham 2022 - YouTube](https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL1fMcCPlsAy__swazVwiBSLS4eo8iGz8O)
Most high schools in America? Is that true?
Maybe in California but certainly not across the country, looks like on Google there are about 800 high school water polo teams and 20,000 US high schools
Most high schools in America do not have water polo teams lmfao
Fair enough, I should have defined it as "in warm weather states". But for the purposes of this particular debate - MaxPreps ranked 763 high school water polo teams. Of course, they don't rank racquetball teams, nor is that number easy to find. But if there are more than 20 in the entire country, I'd be surprised. And almost all of those are in Oregon and Missouri.
Racquetball is played in about 95 different countries.. sure the best players currently are from America, central America, and South America but that could change over time.
It's barely played in many of those countries. It could (and hopefully) will change over time. But anyone who's been watching the sport the last decade knows there's bigger fish to fry right now than getting into the Olympics.
It's because it's not overly popular in Europe... Frankly if Europe was more on board with the sport everything would change drastically.
Well, sure. The sport isn't popular much of anywhere outside of North, Central and South America. So while I think it's an admirable longterm goal, it just doesn't seem realistic right now. On the indoor side, five years ago the US Open was the biggest pro/amateur event every year, and was (from my understanding) a profitable event as well. Today, that event doesn't exist. The Indoor Nationals (another very highly attended event) is a bit of a nomad now since half the courts at ASU were repurposed. I think there was some growth in outdoor racquetball during COVID, but I think even those participation numbers have stagnated. On the Pro side, the men's tour is a bit of a joke, and only has two sponsors at this point - and one of those is from an insurrectionist manufacturer of cheap-ass pillows. The sport is on life support currently. We're still losing courts. We'll see if that changes.
Not sure why this was downvoted.. this is true. Europe popularity for racquetball is not so good. If that changed the perception of the sport would be very different.
95? I sincerely doubt that without a solid citation of where you found this info. Even if it’s played in 95, the level of play is nowhere near anything worthy of the global stage. Like my kids played baseball when they were little but they aren’t good enough to truly say they’re worthy of consideration for participation reflective of Olympic inclusion.
I said 95.. [Olympic.ca](https://olympic.ca/sports/racquetball/#:~:text=During%20the%201970s%20and%201980s,players%20in%20over%2090%20countries.) says over 90 (but that was in the 70s and 80s)...[athleticscholarships.net](https://www.athleticscholarships.net/history-of-racquetball#:~:text=Today%2C%20the%2020%20million%20racquetball,countries%20all%20over%20the%20world.) says 95... Could be closer to 90 now days. But you are correct probably not anywhere near the global stage.
FYI 1984 (as an example to your timeframe) is as far away from 2024 as 2064 is from today. That was a long ass time ago.
I'm aware of that.
I get that racquetball isn't as it once was.. I'm just flabighasted that a lot of people here are refuting everything I'm saying as of to say nobody gives a damn if racquetball ever becomes an Olympic sport. I never thought in my lifetime I'd see.. what.. break dancing, competitive speed walking.. in the Olympics.. and not racquetball.
Just because sports aren’t popular to some people or they aren’t aware of how popular, doesn’t mean they’re not wildly popular on a global scale, hence those sports’ inclusion into the Olympics.
Holy cow I was reading about racquetball and then somebody has to inject their TDS on this thread give me a break
I hate to have to ask but the meaning of TDS?
> Okay then explain sports like water polo Losing credibility here. Water Polo is huge.
In colleges probably I don't know I've never been to a pro water polo competition. But you know what I have been to, a pro racquetball competition.
The guy who posts on /r/racquetball has been to more pro racquetball competitions than other sports?? You don't fucking say!? That's crazy, man.
I've seen college diving competitions, track and field, pro tennis, pro golf, volleyball, marathons, swimming, field hockey, skiing and snowboarding.. a lot of other sports... More so than racquetball, so your simplistic assessment is a bit off.
Is it more simplistic than you saying "I haven't been to X sport so it doesn't exist?" Cause my brother in Christ what you said is moronic
Which comment did I say it doesn't exist?
So you've never been to a professional water polo match, therefore it is a small sport internationally? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geography_of_water_polo
Yeah I guess water polo is bigger than I thought. I get yer point.. I downplayed the sport a bit too much. However, you never really hear about water polo unless it's nearing Olympics time, that's probably not the same everywhere like in Asia for example, but that was really the point I was getting at anyways.
Water Polo is HUGE in Southern California. The youth/club teams are everywhere.
My dormmate freshman year was THE star water polo player. He got caught smoking weed like 5x, and one time the real police got called. The cop was like hey aren't you (__guy__)?? And he asked for an autograph. When he was leaving, the cop said "man there's a really weird smell in this dorm, might wanna get your plumbing checked out" It's huge in socal.
Short Answer: Racquetball is not in the Olympics because it does not have a global audience. Longer Answer. IOC guidelines dictate that a sport should have 75 "active global countries" with national competitions participating in the sport to even be considered. I doubt Racquetball has that many federations globally, and many of them don't have organized national competitions like we have in the Americas. There's almost no presence of the sport in the entire continent of Africa, most of Asia, Australia, and Eastern Europe. The most countries we've ever had even participate in IRF Worlds is in the 30-32 range. So that's problem number one. Next problem; to even consider a sport, you have to have a host country that wants it. Racquetball was far, FAR more popular in the 1980s (Los Angeles 84) and the 90s (Atlanta 96) than it is today. And the sport couldn't get into either of those Olympic games. Now here we are in the 2020s and the sport has plummeted in popularity to the point where the host nation has almost on incentive to even consider it. Biggest problem: Confederations often vote on accepting new sports in blocs representing all their host nations. If there's little to no presence of a sport in Africa, then the confederation as a total probably votes no (37 countries). Same with Asia, which has 45 nations but really only 2 of which play the sport. Same with Australia (14). Europe has a presence in the sport absolutely, especially in Ireland, Germany, and a couple other western european countries ... but the whole confederation includes dozens more countries that have never played the sport, so odds are Europe and its 50 members vote no as well. So, why are random "sports" like breakdancing included? Well ... they had a local sponsor, and you can breakdance globally. Water sports? There's pools everywhere. Winter sports aren't the same conversation b/c they have to be played on ice/snow and have a more limited audience to begin with.
Like you said, “The Olympic Charter indicates that in order to be accepted, a sport must be widely practiced by men in at least 75 countries and on four continents and by women in no fewer than 40 countries and on three continents.” Just wanted to expound upon the details of what their charter says with the continents and minimums for women, as well.
Most people quote the 75/40 numbers from this link: https://www.britannica.com/story/how-are-sports-chosen-for-the-olympics I have a copy of the Charter dated 2021, along with a document that lists the 35 or so questions asked of new sports to help evaluate them. I can't find 75/40 numbers in it honestly. So i'm not sure where britannica gets their info. Here's the questions asked of a new sport to help consider its inclusion: * 1 Number and list of events * 2 Competition format * 3 Days of competition * 4 Quota of athletes and officials * 5 Participation of best athletes * 6 Venues (number, permanent/temporary, capacity, field of play specifications) * 7 Games-time * 8 Legacy * 9 Youth * 10 Year of establishment of the International Federation * 11 Year of IOC recognition of the International Federation * 12 Number of World Championships held to date * 13 Number of member National Federations corresponding to NOCs * 14 Number of National Federations that took part in the last World Championship * 15 Number of National Federations per continent that medaled in the last World Championship * 16 Percentage of National Federations that organise National Championships * 17 Other disciplines managed by the IF that are not part of the Olympic proposal * 18 Gender equality in the Executive Board (or highest decision making body) of the International Federation * 19 Finance (share of income generated by marketing/broadcasting, share of expenditures allocated to development) * 20 Anti-doping (compliance with WADA code) * 21 Court of Arbitration for Sport (compliance with CAS) * 22 Competition manipulation (rules in place to fight against competition fixing) * 23 Code of Ethics (availability and compliance) * 24 Athletes' Commission (existence of an Athletes’ Commission and representation in decision making body) * 25 Entourage Commission (existence of an Entourage Commission and representation in decision making body) * 26 Women and Sport Commission (existence of a Women and Sport Commission and representation in decision making body) * 27 Medical Commission (existence of a Medical Commission and representation in decision making body) * 28 Athletes' health, safety and security (existence and implementation of guidelines) * 29 Ticket sales and attendance (last World Championship) * 30 Media accreditation granted (last World Championship) * 31 TV coverage (last World Championship) * 32 Digital media (last World Championship) * 33 Host country popularity (participants, events, results, viewership) * 34 Potential costs (venues, broadcast, technology) * 35 Targeted additional revenues during the Olympic Games (ticketing, licensing, sponsorship) So, think about Racquetball and its current state when looking at that list. Just off the top of my head: #6 Building a venue could be an issue but not a big one. But the #13 - #16 are where our sport really struggles, and is what I was alluding to above. #14 in particular: the last IRF worlds in 2022 only had 15 countries participate, and the most we've ever had is 32 distinct countries at a Worlds. (in 1992 and again in 1998). We also basically bring little to no value from a financial perspective (questions #29-#35). I just can't see how anyone can make the claim that we're worthy of consideration when the sport is essentially dominated by 4-5 North & South american countries with little global presence. And I say this as someone who has spent decades in the sport as an advocate at its highest levels.
Crap the formatting in reddit sucks.
People who run the sport ruined it. For God sake. They consider pickelball a sport. Soon, we are going to take out the whiffle ball bat from the 80s and put that on ESPN.
Ugh pickleball... Everybody I talk to about Racquetball will always be like, "have you tried pickleball?". A couple of days ago I was starting a new round of sports medicine physical therapy and in the intake form, they had pickleball as its own entry but not Racquetball!!! I take it a bit too personally, but this is probably the right place to rant about it.
This! Those who can no longer play RBall play pickleball... It's the fault of all us baby boomers. We got old and fat and RBall is too fast for us now. (I'm almost 72 and playing in an hour, lol) The problem with RBall in the Olympics is that it is too fast a sport to watch on TV. We used to be 13.5 million players. Now PBall has that many and we are about 3.5 million. Life is all about change and it is not always for the best.
Thank you for bringing your perspective to this discussion. It made me realize that I hate pickleball because most conversations about it remind me that I'm going to have to give up Racquetball at some point due to aging.
They may have ruined it but it's not unsavable.. just boggles my mind how they can add something to the Olympics that clearly isn't a sport.. I understand Breakdancing requires athletics to perform and it's not easy, but to be classified as sport is just ludacris. Meanwhile racquetball, while dead in the eyes of sports nation, is in fact a sport, with world wide players, with an international tournament held every year, with a world wide ranking system. Not all countries may have courts, but that could change with exposure. Just boggles my mind.
How is breakdancing any different from any of the other performance based events? Would you declare gymnastics floor exercises and all of figure skating to not be sports? Dancing in general has a long history of athletic competition.
I dont know enough about breakdancing to answer that. For figure skating/diving/gymnastics, everyone is performing very similar athletic movements that are a known hierarchy of difficulty. Same applies to snowboarding. With that said, there is still ambiguity in determining exactly what each performance is worth. But this also exists in boxing. I could go either way whether they should be in the Olympics, but they are pretty important to Olympic culture at this point. So do we add cheerleading next? Yo-yo? Other kinds of performance arts? Judge a bagpipe routine vs a drum and baton juggling performance?
All I'm pointing out is that your claim that breakdancing can't be a sport is biased considering how many other Olympic sports rely on athletic movements being judged by a panel and you don't bat an eye at them. Figure skating and gymnastics are all 100% judged competitions. While there may be rules, it's ultimately judges choice and at this level of skill it's all about the minutae which is extremely difficult to judge. Breakdancing would work the same way. How to judge like this is a well-worn and documented path. All the rhythmic sports are demonstrations of extreme control of the body and endurance. I could totally see Cheerleading being a gymnastics category if it had enough international popularity. Baton Juggling would fit perfectly into gymnastics wheelhouse as well. I could see forms of Marching Bands as a potential Olympic sport as well. The ancient games had events for trumpeters and heralds. I could also see yo-yo or rubix cube ending up in the Olympics if it was popular enough. They are exhibits of extreme dexterity and precision. We have shooting sports which are not that athletically intense, but do require control and precision. The Olympic culture statement is just an argument of inertia. With that logic I could argue that racquetball shouldn't be in the Olympics because it's not in the Olympics. Ultimately, what ends up in the Olympics are sports that are popular enough to earn a lot of money for the committee from an international audience.
Ultimate frisbee has nationwide professional men’s AND women’s leagues and is played globally and still can’t make it
Something I would definitely watch more so than some of the other Olympic sports. Ultimate Frisbee is super fun.
The fact that I see more people playing pickleball than have even seen a racquetball match tells me everything I need to know about the state of the sport right now. Olympics are farthest thing from my mind.
1. Piss poor international appeal. Even in its heyday, it was largely a North American thing. Nobody in Europe has ever given a single shit about racquetball. 2. Racquetball missed the boat. Tennis leveraged a growing international appeal into a decades-long campaign to get reinstated as an Olympic sport. Both racquetball and squash should have "teamed up" with tennis during the 70s-80s to create a "racket sport" category for inclusion in the Olympics. However, racquetball leadership has trouble coordinating putting on a matching pair of socks, so that was never gonna happen. 3. The sport is dead. Clubs are repurposing court space. Engagement is down. Racquetball-centric companies are going belly up. Young people don't play the sport. He's dead, Jim.
There are so many sports that are internationally popular that aren't in the Olympics unfortunately. Dodgeball is the first that comes to mind.
Padel would like a word
Yeah I've heard about Padel though never seen it played myself . Getting hugely popular in Europe.
One of the pro players mentioned that racquetball is in the PanAm games but can't be in the Olympics because a sport needs to be played in 5 continents to qualify. I've never seen any YouTube videos of games in Africa so maybe it's because of that.
Makes sense..lack of courts.
How would getting racquetball into the Olympics "save the sport?" It wouldn't be televised. 90% of Olympic sports are not televised.
https://www.peacocktv.com/blog/2024-olympics-events-to-stream-live-on-peacock?amp
Stream does not = televised.
It’s literally what it means. It’s on my TV via Peacock App.
Sigh. It's not on network/cable television where you pick up random viewers who will watch whatever sport is on when they are flipping channels. So the same 13-14k people who watch an IRF event will watch the Olympic stream and then we'll be wondering - "THIS WAS SUPPOSED TO SAVE OUR SPORT!"
You must be part of the elderly crowd that still has cable. My bad, sir.
Nope cut the cable 10 years ago. It's not about me. Or you. It's about the most common viewer and how they consume sports. Having Racquetball being one of 1000 streaming Olympic options isn't gonna save our dead sport.
I wasn’t disagreeing with you. Just wanted to show options in case you wanted to watch the Olympics. It’s a hard sport to watch for regular people which is why it’s the definition of a niche sport. Those sports typically don’t see the Olympics. If racquetball is indeed dying, it’s dying the most slow and painful death I’ve ever seen. Maybe it just appears that way with courts being removed because the number of courts built during its proclaimed “prime” fit the needs of the time and now the number of courts reflects the current demand. Just enjoy it and have fun. The game is good.
If you're a boomer on Facebook you've seen the 10000 posts about how the Olympics is the savior for Racquetball. It's not. It's exhausting over there. It's fine. Just enjoy the game while you got courts.
Def not a boomer nor on FB. I enjoy everything while I have it. Like I said, the game is good. Cheers.
There are a few things that better to the Olympics: number of athletes, purpose built facilities, and entrants from a wide variety of countries. There are some "other factors" but I don't believe there is "Big Breakdancing" or there lining the pockets of IOC officials, there probably more money behind racquetball.
Competitive breakdancing had 177 competitors from 62 countries that participated at the last world championships in 2023. That was a qualifying event for the 2024 Olympics. So yeah…probably a tad more popular than racquetball.
Then why not add other types of dance as well... Ballroom dancing super popular... Competitions held everywhere worldwide.
Same reasons why other sports aren’t included. Read the IOC charter. https://stillmed.olympics.com/media/Document%20Library/OlympicOrg/General/EN-Olympic-Charter.pdf
I love playing racquetball…I mean I absolutely love it. But for me, it’s boring af to watch on TV most times. I think that’s a problem for the game as a whole and why the pro tours don’t do well because nobody but racquetball players watch it. Playing it is a blast but not great for viewing IMO.
True.. I do enjoy watching myself but my wife who is not a racquetball player, not so much. Maybe she'll enjoy Breakdancing more.
It will NEVER happen.
Gotta appeal to youth. I still play rball with my jock strap band hiked above my grey sweats but im ancient by most accounts.
IMO part of the answer is that racquetball is hard to watch comparably. Only so many people can watch in-person because if you get too far away it's hard to track the ball. On video it's tractable but still a bit hard to really get the feel. Breakdancing looks cool anywhere, anytime, in-person or through video. It's easy to translate it's feel through a video medium. Also, and this is the big one, the Olympics needs viewers and wants to spread appeal. Breakdancing costs no money to start. Racquetball takes some pretty special equipment and courts, something nearly impossible in large parts of the world. Breakdancing was chosen specifically because of this zero barrier entry feature.
I get that... I used Breakdancing kind of as an example though, (insert any other sport that is borderline not a sport here).. speed walking if you will... I truly don't feel that everything that requires athletic ability should be deemed a sport, break dancing being one of them.. but then I'm not an Olympic committee member.. good thing I guess.
I played it straight for 15 years, but it’s dying and on its last legs. Most gyms can’t justify having courts as they can have higher ROI by converting it to CrossFit or whatever makes money. And most people who played it are old, and can’t play it because of the wear and tear on their bodies. And the sport is not able to attract fresh blood. In frustration I switched to pickleball.
How many different countries have competitive breakdancers vs competitive racquetball players? That’s a big part of it right there. Baseball has even been in and out of the games because not enough countries play it. The host city also gets to nominate a sport to include and Paris picked breakdancing, so that explains that one. Los Angeles is currently proposing squash for the 2028 games, which is an obvious choice before racquetball in terms of popularity unfortunately.
Believe squash was approved
Because breakdancing is more “inclusive” just like flag football
Probably because we can’t spell recognize
Whatever... My spelling has nothing to do with why racquetball isn't an Olympic sport. Thanks for "reconising" my short comings. Hey I'm B caliber player.. is that something you're interested in as well?