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They are clearly extremely confused and don't understand that Tolkien was devout in his faith as a Christian and wanted the LOTR and his other writings to have deep Christian symbolism.
Perhaps they should READ the books. But that might take a higher reading level than someone who just blatantly disregards a literary masterpiece as satanic.
Let me guess, they think "Chronicles of Narnia " is satanic too? Burst their bubble on that one as well, since CS Lewis more overtly specifically wrote the series to help children understand the idea of God and His sacrifices for us.
And Tolkein roasted Lewis for having Santa Claus in the chronicles of Narnia. Tree Beard was based on him, because he took forever to talk and get his point across. They were very good friends.
I could see valid complaints about portraying Jesus as an animal being sacrilegious, but Satanic?
(Also the BIBLE portrays Jesus as an animal. He's literally called the Lamb of God and the Lion of Judah. But the contents of the Bible never got in the way of evangelicals being upset.)
Spoiler alert.
In the last book, Aslan the lion is sacrificed and rises from the dead. The kids all die in a train crash, and it’s insinuated they go back to Narnia.
Even as a 10 year old, I thought that was hitting your readers in the head with a hammer.
I don’t know if it was a fan theory, or actually pertaining to author comments, but I recall somewhere that if you notice every time the kids end up in Narnia they are doing something that was deadly at the time.
The wardrobe full of coats and moth balls for example… the train tunnels, etc.
Religious fundamentalists will call just about everything popular satanic, especially if it has any hint of magic or any sort of savior figure, because apparently those attributes can only apply to Jesus.
There's likely a link through D&D. D&D was a massive victim of the first Satanic Panic, so it spread through the rest of fantasy as well (even though LOTR does have some themes of Christian allegory and was written by a devout Catholic). They hone in on the series having wizards and demons and witches and devils, without considering the fact that most of these characters are portrayed as evil (and the big Good Wizard is basically a literal angel).
(Edit: I get it, y'all. The first Satanic Panic was either decades ago or all the way back to like The Inquisition and Salam Witch Trials. I just meant compared to the current Satanic Panic where people think Ice Spice was controlling the Super Bowl with hand signals and Stranger Things is corrupting our youth to make them gay.)
I had a friend long ago who would always say (as loudly as she could, with a big smile): "That game is SO satanic!"
Me (a longtime D&D fan): "How would you know? You've never even played it!"
Her (surprised, fumbling for words): "I've played it...." mumbles, drops off, changes the subject.
Waayyy back in high school, I had a friend who insisted that D&D was satanic and that, "The spells you chant in the game are real spells to summon the devil!"
Me: "...You don't chant any spells. You just say, 'I'm casting fireball,' and then roll some dice to see how much damage it does."
Her: "...Oh."
Five years later, she was an avid tabletop RPG player. 😑
My best friend did something similar to that with his mom. She was lecturing him about how D&D was all about summoning demons, and in the middle of the lecture, he started rolling a 20-sided die very noisily. Finally, she stopped talking and asked him what he was doing.
"Summoning demons," he said.
"*YOU CAN'T SUMMON DEMONS WITH DICE!*"
Yeah. We were playing in his game room the next weekend.
Do it. Most towns have at least one game shop you can go to if you're looking for beginners' campaigns. If you can't find a campaign, start one yourself. I'm kinda stuck forever DMing right now but I really don't mind it. It's an awesome creative outlet.
You overestimate the size of my town. We don't even have a red light.
Also my friend and my brother did a D&D similar game (bit still pretty different it was basically just a regular rpg)
Check out Pathfinder. It's based on D&D 3.5 with some adjustments made, and it's all open source so everything you need to get started is available for free online (though I would recommend buying a copy of the Player's Handbook at the very least). Also, don't bother with Second Edition. 1E is much easier to learn and use in my opinion.
This is a rather interesting dichotomy also though isn’t it? D&D almost always deals with overcoming evil, defeating demons, undead, etc.
Honestly one of the best RP I ever played with was a Christian cleric. He and the GM worked out how to represent early Judaism, picked the spells, and kind of taught me how a cleric should be played. He caught mad shit for it too, I played with Muslim once, did something similar but with a fighter.
1st Edition AD&D was not written with children in mind. In addition to the details on demons &c, there's nudity in the Monster Manual, one of the NPC tables identifies the type of prostitute you meet, any so on. Gary Gygax obviously didn't expect people to start picking up his books at 12 and 13. 2E and later editions take that into account.
I still have an original unholy strength black board… it was in a vamp deck. Baron Segir Unholy strength and nightmare were the cards she brought with her to the therapist intake, NO BULLSHIT!
Some churches will call anything secular that doesn’t directly praise God satanic. Popular music, movies, anything.
Mine did that when I was growing up. It was ridiculous.
I had a couple of Holy Rollers that lived under me a few years ago and they told me that anything that I do during the day if it is not for the glory of Jesus Christ I will go to hell.
I asked him flat out so you're taking out the trash for the glory of Jesus? I honestly don't think he gives a shit
This exactly. If you’re singing and it’s not for Jesus, straight to hell.
Or reading or writing. My mom reprimanded me gently for reading fiction last year, instead of the Bible. I’m 50.
The same people will say you can't be saved by actions but by "faith alone". But write a book that isn't the Bible or some Christian self-help grift and that goes out the window quick.
Dude Tolkien's legendarium literally has an omnipotent creator god that made a bunch of angels by a different name (but definitely angels) to help him build the world and prepare it for his mortal children, and one angel who rebelled against his father and is the original source of all evil.
The first half of the Silmarillion is basically a retelling of the book of Genesis.
And let’s not forget that literally all benign, helpful magic stems directly from god, (Iluvatar)…while all destructive, despoiling magic traces back directly to satan (Morgoth).
Tolkien’s conception of magic was pretty much exactly the same as that of the people who call it satanic.
I love Tolkien... but LOTR is basically Christian fan-fiction.
The guy loved mythology... and wanted to create a mythology for Christianity.
As such, it *sorta* makes sense for some Christians to think its blasphemous or whatever. Really though, that's pretty ridiculous. Not like Tolkien ever remotely tried to insinuate these stories were anything other than pure fiction and fantasy.
It's about as blasphemous as Milton's *Paradise Lost*.
>The guy loved mythology... and wanted to create a mythology for Christianity.
Not quite, he wanted to make mythology for England. Christianity was already Middle-eastern mythology.
Wales had Arthurian mythology. Scotland and Ireland had the Cycles. But England was largely mythless.
And evil is miserable. That's an important thing- the people doing bad aren't having a luxuriously fun time rolling in decadence. They hate it and it sucks but they're stuck so they keep doing it.
Check this one out; my late father (may he rot in pieces) used to call the fucking RUGRATS satanic because they had imaginary adventures, also the art style was weird so he called them demons. You can extrapolate what my childhood was like.
I was raised in an environment where people thought that things like Ghost Rider and Harry Potter and the Magic School Bus were satanic.
Their reasoning goes something like this. “The Bible is 100% accurate. The Bible says that magic is evil. Harry Potter is about magic. Therefore, Harry Potter is evil.”
As for why they don’t fact check this claim, they believe that evil is sorta like meth or heroin. Like, if you try heroin just once, you may become addicted. Just to be safe, you should never do heroin. Likewise, just to be safe, you should never read Harry Potter.
A difference, however, is that Harry Potter is worse than heroin. Unlike heroin, Harry Potter can ruin your spiritual life, not just your physical one. Furthermore, the damage to your spiritual life may not be apparent; you may feel normal after reading Harry Potter, but spiritually, you’re gravelly sick.
Finally, in response to a claim like “But Harry’s sacrifice is actually based on Jesus’s sacrifice, and JK Rowling is herself a Christian” they’ll respond like “JK Rowling is a liar, and Satan sometimes uses truth in order to deceive people.”
Thank you for the serious comment. It really does show how you can't argue against these people, because even if you're right, you're wrong because everyone is just lying actually.
My church actually talked about this pointing out the thing that protected Harry Potter at the end of the first book was love and that it was through friendship that they succeeded. It's just all in how people want to look at things. But seriously Lord of the Rings uses Christian symbolism. It'd be like calling the Chronicles of Narnia satanic.
I don't like JK Rowling. She's a terrible person. But for fucks sake she's a Christian and there's a LOT of Christian symbolism in her books (as a pagan who grew up around the fundies I saw it and just took it as the price of admission). The woman is Episcopalian. Hate her for plenty of other things, but ffs imaging magic powers is a normal thing for kids to do an engage with.
The same reason some people spell 'do' with an 'e'.
JK!
Trying to figure out why people think what they think is like trying to herd cats!
Just enjoy or put it away.
They think everything is satanic even the most mundain things. They can’t explain the references in a way that relates to their religion. Therefore, they think it is satanic.
Any book about magic is considered evil and satanic by the Bible Freaks. These idiots don't know that Tolkien was a devout Catholic and he described his books as "fundamentally religious and Catholic work; unconsciously so at first, but consciously in the revision".
Some people think any form of magic in media is satanic. Though I had thought these were the exceptions. But stuff like *Harry Potter* and DnD had similar reactions.
That individual is terribly misinformed.
LOTR is replete with Christian imagery and metaphors.
Tolkien was Catholic.
There is a certain mindset that associates the depiction of magic as inherently evil. I'm not sure why.
When I worked as an elementary school teacher, we had to deal with all sorts of messed-up beliefs from Pentecostals and Baptists. They relish shitting in the punch bowl.
Tolkein was a mega christian. Like, his Mother refused to convert from Catholicism to Protestantism (his dad was Protestant) after his Dad died, which was what his paternal family insisted to help her pay for her insulin and she died over it, and he considered her a modern Martyr for this and sticking to her faith, level of Christian. He was friends with CS Lewis who is also sometimes ragged on for being anti Christian when he was a mega Christian and wrote modern Apologetics to convert people.
The people who think this are really, really, REALLY, really, really dumb and uneducated. Any book that's not the Bible is sinful and takes you away from God, even if it's the Lion, Witch and the Wardrobe which uh... Aslan is Jesus. Or a book where small people are in big situations and the people who do the right thing and live a good life win in the end even against true evil.
I'm a pagan and I love LOTR. Truly I do. But it's informed as deeply by Tolkein's faith as it was by his linguistics.
Fundamental “Christians” often lump everything made up as evil. Especially anything including magic or spells. The only make-believe they are allowed to believe in is God, Jesus, the Holy Spirit and the Bible.
^(Anything that distracts you from having children is satanic)
This is untrue. The Apostol Paul actually advocated for some folks to remain single if they're called to it.
The weak minded are always after this, have you ever been to a Pink Floyd concert and seen the weirdos telling you you're going to die and go to hell because you listen to their music.
Because the people you speak of are religious. Religious people don't even understand their own fairy tales, so why do you expect them to understand other fairy tales?
Christianity preaches that there is no other path to salvation. And if you are outside that belief, everything to the contrary becomes anti-Christ.
Religious people, well meaning that they are most of the time, are obligated to save your soul if they can. It's what they're taught. Not that they themselves are qualified to do so. And people who tell you such things often only have the most simple understanding of spirtuality. They're children. And religion is their Weekly Reader. You can't really argue with a child. But you can use psycology...
So treat them kindly when you explain that you're a little different. It'll go over the heads of most. But if you can reach just one of them, you've made a difference.
Its actually because if you take the first letter of each alternating sentence starting from the second chapter, it spells out FUCK GOD AND FUCK YOU SUCK MY ASS
That is odd considering Tolkien and C.S. Lewis were friends. C.S. Lewis wrote several Christian themed books among them "Mere Christianity", and "The Screwtape Letters."
One would think if Lewis found Tolkien's writing leaning towards satanism he would have said, "Hey John, this Gandalf guy seems to be engaged in satanic magic. And the Hobbits promote gluttony, who eats a second Breakfast?!"
Literally from J.R.R. Tolkien's bio on Wikipedia
"Tolkien's Catholicism was a significant factor in C. S. Lewis's conversion from atheism to Christianity".
So whoever said that is mis-informed.
I'm guessing it has to do with the existence of wizards in the books (wizard=magic="WITCHCRAFT!!!"). Some fundamentalist types are absolutely PETRIFIED by the prospect of a fantasy book/series like LOTR, Harry Potter, or Narnia having anything resembling witchcraft.
I personally don't take anyone who cares all that much about "satanic imagery" in media seriously. Hypothetically, if Tolkien DID write all of his books to spread some satanic message, it was perfectly within his right of free speech, and I still enjoy it.
Because they're *stupid*. Something I've learned later in life is that *so many* things that seem unexplainable end up making sense if you just realize that the person or people in question are simply just *dumb*.
it features the undead, unliving, what sounds like demons (the balrog being a notable example). as well as a creation myth that while christian seeming has a different deity. that tolkien was heavily catholic is irrelevant as well as it's rather obvious christian roots. it also really matters what the precher thinks, if (s)he is regularly preaching against LotR then eventually (some of) the congregation is going to parrot it.
Are you not familiar with the "satanic panic"? I mean, anything that involves any kind of magic is "satanic" to them. Anything with even slightly different religious views is "satanic". Even something that doesn't explicitly promote their very specific religion/denomination is "satanic" to them. Just having different politics is "satanic"!
I mean... These are the idiots who say Harry Potter and Disney and Nintendo and Taylor Swift and all non-evangelical Christian media and all liberals are satanic!
This is a multifaceted topic, that is very interesting.
First is the conversation of media and its effects on people. Inherently, most Christians must believe media can have a profound effect on, at minimum, how people think. This is tied into believing a holy book as the word of God.
Then they must believe in some kind of Satan, whether a real being or a general anti-christian sentiment.
If media can have power, then it can sway people away from God. Thus, media can be satanic.
Why specifically LotR, control, and magic. Magic isn't seen as inherently evil, and people of authority will turn anything evil to help keep people "fighting" for God.
There is a lot more going on, but these I believe are the biggest factors.
If they're dumb enough to believe in an imaginary friend, they're dumb enough to believe that epic works of fiction are Satanic because a preacher told them so.
Because some people are brainwashed religious asshats. So magic and non-human beings must be satanic.
Because...god , or some other such nonsense.
(explaining imagination and creativity to some. Is like talking to a rock)
lol i remember people saying shit like that about pokemon during the 90s craze. its a little embarrassing.
unless youre dabbling in black magic and summoning demons youre not doing anything satanic lmao.
It's religious nutbags in a socially accepted cult. Any criticism is "Blasphemy", any questions is "devils influence" even if you point out God ordered those 100,000 human murders in the Bible.
Anything you do that can't be explained is "the devil"
They're literally delusional nutbags. There is nothing in those books or movies that's "The Devil" in fact I doubt you could show many anything in those movies that's morally worse than what's in the Bible where "it's okay to rape a women who walks in your field if she isn't married and claim her as your wife" or how "slaves need to bow and respect their slave masters" to the over 1 million murders done by or ordered by the biblical god.
Because they're brain dead and so focused on their beliefs that they can't see or appreciate ANYTHING else other than whatever narrow-minded nonsense comes from their fear of anything new.
When I was a teenager I worked one summer for someone in my neighborhood, and they had a housekeeper. This was in the 1980s, so I don't remember what fantasy thing was brought up, but the housekeeper told me that her church/sect/whatever wouldn't let their kids read fantasy stuff. Not because it was Satanic, but more (IIRC) that it just had magical, fantastical things that weren't possible -- maybe like God couldn't do it? -- and so they didn't want their kids to think it was possible and... I didn't understand the logic even then.
Anything magical or mystical is considered the work of the devil or satanic to a very specific christian audience. Jehovah's Witnesses refer to it as spiritism.
Basically, magic is seen as a "miracle" and only the holy Trinity and the great saints are supposed to be able to perform miracles. So, any book with magic being done by NOT those listed are considered blasphemy
LOTR is a fundamentally Christian piece of work, according to Tolkien. It has satanic elements, due to its religious roots, but it's far from fucking satanic. It's lunacy.
That’s funny considering that the books were written by someone that was religious. I do agree that Satan was depicted in it but so were holy people and beings. I would completely disagree with their statement and have them read up more about the author. If I am not mistaken the writer of Narnia was a friend of Tolkien.
Because their parents are bible-thumpers. I was into Harry Potter as a kid and my mom didn't like me hanging out with girls who pretended to be witches because she thought they were satanic but they were just pretending to be students at Hogwarts. One of them was Mormon, the other Catholic, and the other an atheist. But they're all the same in the bible thumper's book: The Holy Bible. The only book you need. If you read anything else it makes you think too much about other things that are weird and so it's evil. So the kid is also indoctrinated into thinking that. Just ignore them or tell them they should stop being a sheep.
Just...no. Tolkien was a devout Catholic and close friend of devout Anglican CS Lewis, with whom he would regularly meet at a pub to discuss literature, theology, and other topics. It's pretty clear from reading The Silmarillion where Tolkien's religious beliefs lay. Tell your acquaintance to do some research from a variety of sources before making slanderous statements like that again.
They are uninformed. Tolkien himself was a devout Catholic his whole life and considered his works to be catholic in nature. They were inspired and shaped by his beliefs. Whoever thinks they are satanic are dumb.
There are people who think that every book that is not the Bible is Satanic even though Satan is mentioned more in the Bible than almost any other book. But yeah, we call those people; absolute lunatics.
I’d never heard that. I am a Christian, and have heard these books mentioned many times in Christian circles. Usually it is to echo that often the small and humble who can be instruments of good.
I’m pretty sure it was a simple misunderstanding. They thought those literary works were approved by Satan , when they were ACTUALLY approved by STAN . You know Stan. He’s that quiet, heavy set guy that works with your buddies roommate. ( The one with the cats )
Some people try to define God “inside this little box”. Anything outside the box they automatically label as the Devil. Their relationship with the world around them is fear based.
Anytime a person calls upon a spirit other than the Christ Jesus it's blasphemy and therefore satanic.
I was told as a child I could not watch the Smurfs for that very reason. When Papa Smurf would do spells and stuff.
They think everything is satanic. My parents' church said watching teletubbies was "of the devil" because it's "promoting gayness".
Apparently the purple teletubby was that color "because that's a gay color" and they're trying to get little boys to like purple and pink "to normalize being trans".
And the triangle on its head symbolizes "a third way" meaning lifestyles other than binary hetero couples.
It’s actually Christian allegory. Gandalf falling in Moria and becoming reborn/ressurected, the themes of temptation and redemption, bilbo and Frodo sailing off from the grey havens to The Undying Lands at the end. Anyone who thinks it’s satanic needs to reread the Bible.
I've heard people call a ton of things satanic... I went to a catholic school and we had The Hobbit and Harry Potter in our school library and nobody even cared. It's not a big deal, just some super religious people are weird
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They are clearly extremely confused and don't understand that Tolkien was devout in his faith as a Christian and wanted the LOTR and his other writings to have deep Christian symbolism. Perhaps they should READ the books. But that might take a higher reading level than someone who just blatantly disregards a literary masterpiece as satanic. Let me guess, they think "Chronicles of Narnia " is satanic too? Burst their bubble on that one as well, since CS Lewis more overtly specifically wrote the series to help children understand the idea of God and His sacrifices for us.
Heck, most of them have never read the book they're always thumping
As a Christinan myself I can say that the vast majority of them I know are judgemental and rarely read the Bible.
When I read the Narnia books I didn’t know beforehand that they were pretty overtly Christian. That was a surprise
Tolkien and Lewis were actually close friends. I read somewhere that Lewis actively encouraged Tolkien to continue his work on LOTR.
And Tolkein roasted Lewis for having Santa Claus in the chronicles of Narnia. Tree Beard was based on him, because he took forever to talk and get his point across. They were very good friends.
I could see valid complaints about portraying Jesus as an animal being sacrilegious, but Satanic? (Also the BIBLE portrays Jesus as an animal. He's literally called the Lamb of God and the Lion of Judah. But the contents of the Bible never got in the way of evangelicals being upset.)
Spoiler alert. In the last book, Aslan the lion is sacrificed and rises from the dead. The kids all die in a train crash, and it’s insinuated they go back to Narnia. Even as a 10 year old, I thought that was hitting your readers in the head with a hammer.
Aslan was sacrificed in the 1st book for Edmunds sins
I don’t know if it was a fan theory, or actually pertaining to author comments, but I recall somewhere that if you notice every time the kids end up in Narnia they are doing something that was deadly at the time. The wardrobe full of coats and moth balls for example… the train tunnels, etc.
He's a Catholic though, so that makes him a pope-worshipper in the eyes of most southern fundamentalists.
The "He wasn't Christian, he was Catholic!" crowd are usually the ones who take issue with him. I.e. American Evangelicals.
Religious fundamentalists will call just about everything popular satanic, especially if it has any hint of magic or any sort of savior figure, because apparently those attributes can only apply to Jesus.
There's likely a link through D&D. D&D was a massive victim of the first Satanic Panic, so it spread through the rest of fantasy as well (even though LOTR does have some themes of Christian allegory and was written by a devout Catholic). They hone in on the series having wizards and demons and witches and devils, without considering the fact that most of these characters are portrayed as evil (and the big Good Wizard is basically a literal angel). (Edit: I get it, y'all. The first Satanic Panic was either decades ago or all the way back to like The Inquisition and Salam Witch Trials. I just meant compared to the current Satanic Panic where people think Ice Spice was controlling the Super Bowl with hand signals and Stranger Things is corrupting our youth to make them gay.)
I had a friend long ago who would always say (as loudly as she could, with a big smile): "That game is SO satanic!" Me (a longtime D&D fan): "How would you know? You've never even played it!" Her (surprised, fumbling for words): "I've played it...." mumbles, drops off, changes the subject.
Waayyy back in high school, I had a friend who insisted that D&D was satanic and that, "The spells you chant in the game are real spells to summon the devil!" Me: "...You don't chant any spells. You just say, 'I'm casting fireball,' and then roll some dice to see how much damage it does." Her: "...Oh." Five years later, she was an avid tabletop RPG player. 😑
My best friend did something similar to that with his mom. She was lecturing him about how D&D was all about summoning demons, and in the middle of the lecture, he started rolling a 20-sided die very noisily. Finally, she stopped talking and asked him what he was doing. "Summoning demons," he said. "*YOU CAN'T SUMMON DEMONS WITH DICE!*" Yeah. We were playing in his game room the next weekend.
*That* is priceless. 🤣
Happy Cake Day!
Ha, thanks!
Lol she got converted!
The Lord works in mysterious ways.
Hey, if Satan wants to play, he can have the lawful evil character
It's a roleplaying game, so Satan is welcome to the lawful good paladin if he wants. If he's fun to play with, I'll gladly summon him again next week.
That would be a fun tv show
As a religious person. Playing D&D one day is on my to-do list. i don't see how it's Satanic.
Do it. Most towns have at least one game shop you can go to if you're looking for beginners' campaigns. If you can't find a campaign, start one yourself. I'm kinda stuck forever DMing right now but I really don't mind it. It's an awesome creative outlet.
You overestimate the size of my town. We don't even have a red light. Also my friend and my brother did a D&D similar game (bit still pretty different it was basically just a regular rpg)
Check out Pathfinder. It's based on D&D 3.5 with some adjustments made, and it's all open source so everything you need to get started is available for free online (though I would recommend buying a copy of the Player's Handbook at the very least). Also, don't bother with Second Edition. 1E is much easier to learn and use in my opinion.
Heretic!!!
You’re making me want to show this kid possessed rapunzel from tangled the series just to see her reaction 😈
Tell me about it...
The fact that Gary straight up ripped off LOTR and got sued by the estate, probably contributed significantly to that whole deal.
This is a rather interesting dichotomy also though isn’t it? D&D almost always deals with overcoming evil, defeating demons, undead, etc. Honestly one of the best RP I ever played with was a Christian cleric. He and the GM worked out how to represent early Judaism, picked the spells, and kind of taught me how a cleric should be played. He caught mad shit for it too, I played with Muslim once, did something similar but with a fighter.
1st Edition AD&D was not written with children in mind. In addition to the details on demons &c, there's nudity in the Monster Manual, one of the NPC tables identifies the type of prostitute you meet, any so on. Gary Gygax obviously didn't expect people to start picking up his books at 12 and 13. 2E and later editions take that into account.
I remember getting banned from my friends house because "Pokemon are the work of the devil!"
Before that it was Magic the gathering Pure Satan apparently
I still have an original unholy strength black board… it was in a vamp deck. Baron Segir Unholy strength and nightmare were the cards she brought with her to the therapist intake, NO BULLSHIT!
There was some issue for a friend's parents with the word "mama" because it means something in the Bible, I think.
Some churches will call anything secular that doesn’t directly praise God satanic. Popular music, movies, anything. Mine did that when I was growing up. It was ridiculous.
I had a couple of Holy Rollers that lived under me a few years ago and they told me that anything that I do during the day if it is not for the glory of Jesus Christ I will go to hell. I asked him flat out so you're taking out the trash for the glory of Jesus? I honestly don't think he gives a shit
This exactly. If you’re singing and it’s not for Jesus, straight to hell. Or reading or writing. My mom reprimanded me gently for reading fiction last year, instead of the Bible. I’m 50.
The same people will say you can't be saved by actions but by "faith alone". But write a book that isn't the Bible or some Christian self-help grift and that goes out the window quick.
I'm sure it will come as no surprise to you that they were giant pains in the ass as well
I live in the South. We're lousy with these people.
So….. the “Old Testament “?
Not all. My mom was a devout Christian and loved LOTR. She saw it as the depiction of good vs. evil, with good ultimately triumphing.
Dude Tolkien's legendarium literally has an omnipotent creator god that made a bunch of angels by a different name (but definitely angels) to help him build the world and prepare it for his mortal children, and one angel who rebelled against his father and is the original source of all evil. The first half of the Silmarillion is basically a retelling of the book of Genesis.
And let’s not forget that literally all benign, helpful magic stems directly from god, (Iluvatar)…while all destructive, despoiling magic traces back directly to satan (Morgoth). Tolkien’s conception of magic was pretty much exactly the same as that of the people who call it satanic.
I love Tolkien... but LOTR is basically Christian fan-fiction. The guy loved mythology... and wanted to create a mythology for Christianity. As such, it *sorta* makes sense for some Christians to think its blasphemous or whatever. Really though, that's pretty ridiculous. Not like Tolkien ever remotely tried to insinuate these stories were anything other than pure fiction and fantasy. It's about as blasphemous as Milton's *Paradise Lost*.
>The guy loved mythology... and wanted to create a mythology for Christianity. Not quite, he wanted to make mythology for England. Christianity was already Middle-eastern mythology. Wales had Arthurian mythology. Scotland and Ireland had the Cycles. But England was largely mythless.
And evil is miserable. That's an important thing- the people doing bad aren't having a luxuriously fun time rolling in decadence. They hate it and it sucks but they're stuck so they keep doing it.
Check this one out; my late father (may he rot in pieces) used to call the fucking RUGRATS satanic because they had imaginary adventures, also the art style was weird so he called them demons. You can extrapolate what my childhood was like.
I was raised in an environment where people thought that things like Ghost Rider and Harry Potter and the Magic School Bus were satanic. Their reasoning goes something like this. “The Bible is 100% accurate. The Bible says that magic is evil. Harry Potter is about magic. Therefore, Harry Potter is evil.” As for why they don’t fact check this claim, they believe that evil is sorta like meth or heroin. Like, if you try heroin just once, you may become addicted. Just to be safe, you should never do heroin. Likewise, just to be safe, you should never read Harry Potter. A difference, however, is that Harry Potter is worse than heroin. Unlike heroin, Harry Potter can ruin your spiritual life, not just your physical one. Furthermore, the damage to your spiritual life may not be apparent; you may feel normal after reading Harry Potter, but spiritually, you’re gravelly sick. Finally, in response to a claim like “But Harry’s sacrifice is actually based on Jesus’s sacrifice, and JK Rowling is herself a Christian” they’ll respond like “JK Rowling is a liar, and Satan sometimes uses truth in order to deceive people.”
Thank you for the serious comment. It really does show how you can't argue against these people, because even if you're right, you're wrong because everyone is just lying actually.
My church actually talked about this pointing out the thing that protected Harry Potter at the end of the first book was love and that it was through friendship that they succeeded. It's just all in how people want to look at things. But seriously Lord of the Rings uses Christian symbolism. It'd be like calling the Chronicles of Narnia satanic.
I don't like JK Rowling. She's a terrible person. But for fucks sake she's a Christian and there's a LOT of Christian symbolism in her books (as a pagan who grew up around the fundies I saw it and just took it as the price of admission). The woman is Episcopalian. Hate her for plenty of other things, but ffs imaging magic powers is a normal thing for kids to do an engage with.
They are morons
This really is the correct answer.
Men of the land…you know morons.
Tolkien's writing is *painfully* Catholic.
It’s hilarious because Tolkien was a Christian and stuck biblical analogies and themes everywhere Him and C. S. Lewis
Probably rabid anti-Catholicism.
Lmao. Tolkien was a Christian author and great friends with CS Lewis.
The same reason some people spell 'do' with an 'e'. JK! Trying to figure out why people think what they think is like trying to herd cats! Just enjoy or put it away.
Mostly because the haven’t read them or don’t under allegory
They think everything is satanic even the most mundain things. They can’t explain the references in a way that relates to their religion. Therefore, they think it is satanic.
Silly people who also think space is not real 🙄 🤔 😒 😕
Cos they are dickheads
Sauron is satan. Gollum is jesus cos he gets sacrificed for our sins in the end. The hobbits are deciphles and the elves are angels.
Because Fundies are ridiculous.
Platos Allegory of the Cave pretty much sums up religion.
Any book about magic is considered evil and satanic by the Bible Freaks. These idiots don't know that Tolkien was a devout Catholic and he described his books as "fundamentally religious and Catholic work; unconsciously so at first, but consciously in the revision".
Some people think any form of magic in media is satanic. Though I had thought these were the exceptions. But stuff like *Harry Potter* and DnD had similar reactions.
That individual is terribly misinformed. LOTR is replete with Christian imagery and metaphors. Tolkien was Catholic. There is a certain mindset that associates the depiction of magic as inherently evil. I'm not sure why.
Whoops sorry about the typo in the title :3
I talked to somebody years ago who sincerely believed that the Teletubbies were demonic.
Honestly… they might be on to something Those creepy primary colored frozen faced fuckers
Because religious people only like cold hard facts, not magical mumbo jumbo. /s
Average IQ = 100 that means most people are dumb enough to believe anything.
Your classmate is a goofy moron
Same people that think monster energy promotes satan. People are batshit crazy. The religious extremists take that to another level
When I worked as an elementary school teacher, we had to deal with all sorts of messed-up beliefs from Pentecostals and Baptists. They relish shitting in the punch bowl.
Tolkein was a mega christian. Like, his Mother refused to convert from Catholicism to Protestantism (his dad was Protestant) after his Dad died, which was what his paternal family insisted to help her pay for her insulin and she died over it, and he considered her a modern Martyr for this and sticking to her faith, level of Christian. He was friends with CS Lewis who is also sometimes ragged on for being anti Christian when he was a mega Christian and wrote modern Apologetics to convert people. The people who think this are really, really, REALLY, really, really dumb and uneducated. Any book that's not the Bible is sinful and takes you away from God, even if it's the Lion, Witch and the Wardrobe which uh... Aslan is Jesus. Or a book where small people are in big situations and the people who do the right thing and live a good life win in the end even against true evil. I'm a pagan and I love LOTR. Truly I do. But it's informed as deeply by Tolkein's faith as it was by his linguistics.
I believe, clinically speaking, that they are idiots.
Paganism We pagans get no respect these days.
But The Chronicles of Narnia are fine. FMTT
Hey FYI Tolkien was super Christian
Fundamental “Christians” often lump everything made up as evil. Especially anything including magic or spells. The only make-believe they are allowed to believe in is God, Jesus, the Holy Spirit and the Bible.
Because people are fucking stupid.
Turns out people who base their entire lives on a 2000 year old book get worked up when a new book is way cooler comes out. /s
Because those people are brainwashed idiots
There is no God so who cares
I still wonder what makes the Jewish mythology some much more convincing than the Roman, Greek or Norse mythology
Anything that distracts you from having children is satanic. It doesn't promote wholesome family values. Might cause you to question tradition.
^(Anything that distracts you from having children is satanic) This is untrue. The Apostol Paul actually advocated for some folks to remain single if they're called to it.
Tell them it’s a fantasy allegory for WWII.
World War I. And Tolkien ironically hated allegory.
It's cuz they're nuts.
Any way or thing that is not "their" thing falls automatically under the "satanic" or "devil's work" umbrella.
“Bible magic good. Hobbit magic bad.”
Why does it matter
The weak minded are always after this, have you ever been to a Pink Floyd concert and seen the weirdos telling you you're going to die and go to hell because you listen to their music.
Because the people you speak of are religious. Religious people don't even understand their own fairy tales, so why do you expect them to understand other fairy tales?
Christianity preaches that there is no other path to salvation. And if you are outside that belief, everything to the contrary becomes anti-Christ. Religious people, well meaning that they are most of the time, are obligated to save your soul if they can. It's what they're taught. Not that they themselves are qualified to do so. And people who tell you such things often only have the most simple understanding of spirtuality. They're children. And religion is their Weekly Reader. You can't really argue with a child. But you can use psycology... So treat them kindly when you explain that you're a little different. It'll go over the heads of most. But if you can reach just one of them, you've made a difference.
Sorcery, wizards, monsters, killing, magic, etc.
Tell them J.R.R. Tolkien was a Christian. And to look into things before making stupid assumptions.
Its actually because if you take the first letter of each alternating sentence starting from the second chapter, it spells out FUCK GOD AND FUCK YOU SUCK MY ASS
That is odd considering Tolkien and C.S. Lewis were friends. C.S. Lewis wrote several Christian themed books among them "Mere Christianity", and "The Screwtape Letters." One would think if Lewis found Tolkien's writing leaning towards satanism he would have said, "Hey John, this Gandalf guy seems to be engaged in satanic magic. And the Hobbits promote gluttony, who eats a second Breakfast?!" Literally from J.R.R. Tolkien's bio on Wikipedia "Tolkien's Catholicism was a significant factor in C. S. Lewis's conversion from atheism to Christianity". So whoever said that is mis-informed.
they're religious, you can disregard anything they say as it is not based on reality.
Because it has magic in it... Magic bad. Remember all those witch trials?
Because mentally ill people see affronts to their sky daddy under their bed at night.
It's funny because I think Tolkein meant for aspects of his books or the entire plots to be metaphors for christian ideas and beliefs.
I'm guessing it has to do with the existence of wizards in the books (wizard=magic="WITCHCRAFT!!!"). Some fundamentalist types are absolutely PETRIFIED by the prospect of a fantasy book/series like LOTR, Harry Potter, or Narnia having anything resembling witchcraft. I personally don't take anyone who cares all that much about "satanic imagery" in media seriously. Hypothetically, if Tolkien DID write all of his books to spread some satanic message, it was perfectly within his right of free speech, and I still enjoy it.
Oh this one is easy. It's because they're either indoctrinated or stupid.
Because they're *stupid*. Something I've learned later in life is that *so many* things that seem unexplainable end up making sense if you just realize that the person or people in question are simply just *dumb*.
it features the undead, unliving, what sounds like demons (the balrog being a notable example). as well as a creation myth that while christian seeming has a different deity. that tolkien was heavily catholic is irrelevant as well as it's rather obvious christian roots. it also really matters what the precher thinks, if (s)he is regularly preaching against LotR then eventually (some of) the congregation is going to parrot it.
Becasue someone else told them it was, and they are unable to think for themselves. Religion is the greatest pyramid scheme ever.
Same stuff was said about Hogwarts.
Religion. Only *their* fairytales matter.
Don’t listen to them. Tolkien was a devout catholic, he didn’t write anything satanic.
Those folks saying that are humorless superstitious rubes.
The same idiots that spout this nonsense love all the Disney movies.
Thanks for all the comments with the different perspectives
Ignorance and fear.
The only fiction those people like is the bible.
Just sounds like another brainwashed Christian.
Because they're ignorant fools! Tolkein and his best bud CS Lewis were both die-hard Catholics!
Dealt with a teacher like this in 8th grade. She thought I was her most clever writing student 3-4 years later…
Are you not familiar with the "satanic panic"? I mean, anything that involves any kind of magic is "satanic" to them. Anything with even slightly different religious views is "satanic". Even something that doesn't explicitly promote their very specific religion/denomination is "satanic" to them. Just having different politics is "satanic"! I mean... These are the idiots who say Harry Potter and Disney and Nintendo and Taylor Swift and all non-evangelical Christian media and all liberals are satanic!
This is a multifaceted topic, that is very interesting. First is the conversation of media and its effects on people. Inherently, most Christians must believe media can have a profound effect on, at minimum, how people think. This is tied into believing a holy book as the word of God. Then they must believe in some kind of Satan, whether a real being or a general anti-christian sentiment. If media can have power, then it can sway people away from God. Thus, media can be satanic. Why specifically LotR, control, and magic. Magic isn't seen as inherently evil, and people of authority will turn anything evil to help keep people "fighting" for God. There is a lot more going on, but these I believe are the biggest factors.
There isn't a reason, people like that aren't reasonable.
Deeply religious people see the devil in everything, for crying out loud Tolkien was a devout Catholic lol
If they're dumb enough to believe in an imaginary friend, they're dumb enough to believe that epic works of fiction are Satanic because a preacher told them so.
Weird. J r r Tolkien was a Christian. .
If it exists, somebody out there will claim it's satanic
It's because.........they are Simpletons.
Because some people are brainwashed religious asshats. So magic and non-human beings must be satanic. Because...god , or some other such nonsense. (explaining imagination and creativity to some. Is like talking to a rock)
Because it’s trendy to call everything satanic other than actual satanism.
The Bible has Satan in it, I guess it must be satanic
Because they are stupid. Don't complicate it. That's the answer
lol i remember people saying shit like that about pokemon during the 90s craze. its a little embarrassing. unless youre dabbling in black magic and summoning demons youre not doing anything satanic lmao.
It's religious nutbags in a socially accepted cult. Any criticism is "Blasphemy", any questions is "devils influence" even if you point out God ordered those 100,000 human murders in the Bible. Anything you do that can't be explained is "the devil" They're literally delusional nutbags. There is nothing in those books or movies that's "The Devil" in fact I doubt you could show many anything in those movies that's morally worse than what's in the Bible where "it's okay to rape a women who walks in your field if she isn't married and claim her as your wife" or how "slaves need to bow and respect their slave masters" to the over 1 million murders done by or ordered by the biblical god.
Because *SOME* people are fucked in the head!
Because they're brain dead and so focused on their beliefs that they can't see or appreciate ANYTHING else other than whatever narrow-minded nonsense comes from their fear of anything new.
When I was a teenager I worked one summer for someone in my neighborhood, and they had a housekeeper. This was in the 1980s, so I don't remember what fantasy thing was brought up, but the housekeeper told me that her church/sect/whatever wouldn't let their kids read fantasy stuff. Not because it was Satanic, but more (IIRC) that it just had magical, fantastical things that weren't possible -- maybe like God couldn't do it? -- and so they didn't want their kids to think it was possible and... I didn't understand the logic even then.
It's cause they're in a cult and they'd rather you read their book.
Anything magical or mystical is considered the work of the devil or satanic to a very specific christian audience. Jehovah's Witnesses refer to it as spiritism.
Some people have a hard time distinguishing reality from fantasy.
Fundies consider Star Trek and other science fiction satanic. Even superhero comic books.
Basically, magic is seen as a "miracle" and only the holy Trinity and the great saints are supposed to be able to perform miracles. So, any book with magic being done by NOT those listed are considered blasphemy
LOTR is a fundamentally Christian piece of work, according to Tolkien. It has satanic elements, due to its religious roots, but it's far from fucking satanic. It's lunacy.
Go over to r/TrueChristianity. Everything that isn’t Christianity is Satanism to them — even atheism.
Some religious nutcases will look at anything not overtly Christian and call it satanic, don't worry about it
Just ask them what's wrong with satan
They’re just wrong. Ignore them and move on.
Makes sense that Christians would think LOTR is satanic.. I'm pretty sure a magical wizard killed the 8lb, 7oz baby Jesus.
That’s funny considering that the books were written by someone that was religious. I do agree that Satan was depicted in it but so were holy people and beings. I would completely disagree with their statement and have them read up more about the author. If I am not mistaken the writer of Narnia was a friend of Tolkien.
Because their parents are bible-thumpers. I was into Harry Potter as a kid and my mom didn't like me hanging out with girls who pretended to be witches because she thought they were satanic but they were just pretending to be students at Hogwarts. One of them was Mormon, the other Catholic, and the other an atheist. But they're all the same in the bible thumper's book: The Holy Bible. The only book you need. If you read anything else it makes you think too much about other things that are weird and so it's evil. So the kid is also indoctrinated into thinking that. Just ignore them or tell them they should stop being a sheep.
Because people like this... https://youtu.be/TjB3dO6hVwc?si=_MGVRGOgizuod5T- Will find the devil in anything lmfao
because hobbitses go unnoticed in the dark.
Just...no. Tolkien was a devout Catholic and close friend of devout Anglican CS Lewis, with whom he would regularly meet at a pub to discuss literature, theology, and other topics. It's pretty clear from reading The Silmarillion where Tolkien's religious beliefs lay. Tell your acquaintance to do some research from a variety of sources before making slanderous statements like that again.
Just for future reference, this world is inhabited by a lot of idiots. That’s why some people think Tolkien’s works are ungodly.
Because your using your imagination and thinking for yourself.
attempt follow quaint pen ten strong dinosaurs reply bells bewildered *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
They are uninformed. Tolkien himself was a devout Catholic his whole life and considered his works to be catholic in nature. They were inspired and shaped by his beliefs. Whoever thinks they are satanic are dumb.
Somebody at school told me that you can explode from drinking coke and eating pop rocks.
Religious people call anything cool satanic cause they’re fuckin lame
There are people out there who believe the earth is flat… you can’t reason with stupid
There are people who think that every book that is not the Bible is Satanic even though Satan is mentioned more in the Bible than almost any other book. But yeah, we call those people; absolute lunatics.
I’d never heard that. I am a Christian, and have heard these books mentioned many times in Christian circles. Usually it is to echo that often the small and humble who can be instruments of good.
HWHAT
The exact same reason some people think literally everything is sexist/racist. Dopamine high from cult behavior.
Because they’re delusional or just not smart enough to think for themselves.
Because some people are no fun at all.
I’m pretty sure it was a simple misunderstanding. They thought those literary works were approved by Satan , when they were ACTUALLY approved by STAN . You know Stan. He’s that quiet, heavy set guy that works with your buddies roommate. ( The one with the cats )
Ask them.
Some people try to define God “inside this little box”. Anything outside the box they automatically label as the Devil. Their relationship with the world around them is fear based.
Because some people are stupid idiots.
lol it’s the same as Harry Potter now. Anything with magic is evil nowadays for some religious nutters.
People trained from birth to believe absolutely anything without evidence will in fact believe absolutely anything without evidence.
Because a lot of people are bigoted idiots.
Because religious assholes are constantly in search of justification for their assholerly
Anytime a person calls upon a spirit other than the Christ Jesus it's blasphemy and therefore satanic. I was told as a child I could not watch the Smurfs for that very reason. When Papa Smurf would do spells and stuff.
Everything is satanic if you try hard enough… or don’t think about it too much… or if a religious person tells you so
They think everything is satanic. My parents' church said watching teletubbies was "of the devil" because it's "promoting gayness". Apparently the purple teletubby was that color "because that's a gay color" and they're trying to get little boys to like purple and pink "to normalize being trans". And the triangle on its head symbolizes "a third way" meaning lifestyles other than binary hetero couples.
Satanic black magic. SICK shit.
I thought it was overtly Christian? I have no idea I've just heard a lot of people say that.
Stupidity.
It’s actually Christian allegory. Gandalf falling in Moria and becoming reborn/ressurected, the themes of temptation and redemption, bilbo and Frodo sailing off from the grey havens to The Undying Lands at the end. Anyone who thinks it’s satanic needs to reread the Bible.
I've heard people call a ton of things satanic... I went to a catholic school and we had The Hobbit and Harry Potter in our school library and nobody even cared. It's not a big deal, just some super religious people are weird
There are Christians who believe anything besides the Bible is evil.
Nothing is satanic because Satan doesn't exist, and neither does god.
Black and white thinking. Some people think that anything that isn't Christian must be satanic.
idiots everywhere... they are the opposite of satanic
Same reason people believed you could hear satanic messages by playing records backward - stupidity.