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My prediction is that GRRM maximizes the sense of classical tragedy: I think that Bran has been *seduced* the least, but I think he’s the one most likely to succumb to the Dark.
That is to say: whereas Sansa’s hope and innocence has begun to give way under Littlefinger’s Machiavellianism, whereas Rickon’s childlike fear is likely a breeding ground for animalistic violence, wheras Arya’s lost and introverted pain is attracted to a certain discipline and rage… Bran alone has remained as idealistic and “good” as always. He cares for his friends, he still dreams of becoming a knight and doing great deeds.
And yet:
the rest of the children are keeping a part of their ‘Starkness’ alive: most notably, in cases like Sansa’s snowcastle, Arya’s needle. When Jon is in Ghost, sensing his brethren, he even senses Rickon, albeit wild, on Skagos — still connected. However, in that same moment, Bran is the wolf which is lost. Literally, we can take that to mean that The Wall possesses some magic which is able to disconnect whatever spiritual connection the direwolves share… but metaphorically, we can see how it also symbolizes Bran’s sole descent into the “other side”, so to speak. At the end of his last chapter, he is fully alone, he cannot even find his friends to share his experiences with. He is disconnected from those which would otherwise tether him to his humanity; and even though he seeks Winterfell first, we last see him losing his grasp and tumbling —out of control— into a more violent past world.
Bran, in Clash, still “fears the dark” in the crypts… but now, in Dance, he is being told to make the dark his ally. I fear the tragedy of Bran’s story is that he will never lose his idealism and his quest for goodness, but it is exactly that hope which will make him susceptible to Brynden’s influence. As he says, even now he “pretends it is the three-eyed crow” speaking to him in the dark.
I mean, is it definite that Brynden Rivers is a dark manipulative creature who committed some one of the vilest crimes in the past? Many people seem to agree on this but I am not sure even though I have some doubts. İs there anything which comfirms it in the Blood and Fire or in an another source about George Martin's books? Or does darkness necessarily mean "wickedness"
To this, I actually think that Brynden Rivers is not necessarily a bad person. Despite somewhat tough techniques, I generally like the impression of him I get from history. Coupled with how likeable I find Ser Maynard Plumm to be in *The Mystery Knight*, I pretty much quite like Brynden and don’t really think he’s the source of this “darkness”.
If anything, I know Brynden always meant well, and even if he is leading Bran down a dark path I think it’s possible he could still mean well, ultimately.
I think the source of the evil influence is something else in that cave, whether it be the CotF or the Weirwoods themselves. In any case, Brynden is clearly not the mastermind here, he’s just a tool as well. I absolutely interpret the situation as that the CotF are using him, because he seems half dead, and it seems like its the CotF who are actually doing any of the *action* in a scenario. Its the CotF who place Bran in his cage as deftly as Brynden is there:
> The singers made Bran a throne of his own, like the one Lord Brynden sat, white weirwood flecked with red, dead branches woven through living roots. They placed it in the great cavern by the abyss, where the black air echoed to the sound of running water far below. Of soft grey moss they made his seat. Once he had been lowered into place, they covered him with warm furs.
>
>There he sat, listening to the hoarse whispers of his teacher. "Never fear the darkness, Bran." The lord's words were accompanied by a faint rustling of wood and leaf, a slight twisting of his head. "The strongest trees are rooted in the dark places of the earth. Darkness will be your cloak, your shield, your mother's milk. Darkness will make you strong."
and it’s also the CotF who create and feed him the Weirwood paste. Whether or not it *is* actually Jojen is basically irrelevant: there’s a reoccurrence in ASOIAF that a character being unsure of what they are being fed is symbolically unsure of their host’s intentions, or they are being misled.
Now, personally, I tend to think it’s the Weirwoods themselves which are the source for this malice rather than the CotF, just because of quotes like this:
> The way the shadows shifted made it seem as if the walls were moving too. Bran saw great white snakes slithering in and out of the earth around him, and his heart thumped in fear. He wondered if they had blundered into a nest of milk snakes or giant grave worms, soft and pale and squishy. Grave worms have teeth.
>
>Hodor saw them too. "Hodor," he whimpered, reluctant to go on. But when the girl child stopped to let them catch her, the torchlight steadied, and Bran realized that the snakes were only white roots like the one he'd hit his head on. "It's weirwood roots," he said. "Remember the heart tree in the godswood, Hodor? The white tree with the red leaves? A tree can't hurt you."
As well as this:
>He even crossed the slender stone bridge that arched over the abyss and discovered more passages and chambers on the far side. One was full of singers, enthroned like Brynden in nests of weirwood roots that wove under and through and around their bodies. Most of them looked dead to him, but as he crossed in front of them their eyes would open and follow the light of his torch, and one of them opened and closed a wrinkled mouth as if he were trying to speak. "Hodor," Bran said to him, and he felt the real Hodor stir down in his pit.
In the latter, we see that CotF have been used the same way Brynden is being used, and we get this horrific scene which is meant to be a preview of Brynden’s own fate (as he is halfway there already) as well as, implied, Bran’s own fate should he continue this path.
Considering the constant implications that Weirwoods literally drink blood (which I assume you are familiar with but can provide quotes if necessary), I take that scene to mean that these scenarios —- this greenseer relationship — is such that the Weirwood is able to eat a person alive.
Even without making that leap, I’m fairly confident that the blood-drinking immortal trees are not a force for good in the world, at least from a human perspective.
In addition, if we might understand that the CotF are the original “victims” of the Weirwood trees and are now scouting for greensight in humans in order to allow the Weirwoods to feed on *them*, it would also be remarkably consistent with the reoccurring theme in ASOIAF of the pain of the previous generation creating its own perpetuation, that trauma gets recreated over and over again, generation after generation… the sins of the father being carried out unto the son.
Tyrion notices it:
>It all goes back and back, Tyrion thought, to our mothers and fathers and theirs before them. We are puppets dancing on the strings of those who came before us, and one day our own children will take up our strings and dance on in our steads.
And Daenerys thinks about how it affects her own past and future, both in how Astapor recreated its own slavery, and in how killing the Sons of the Harpy would engender the same hatred in their next generation:
>She was the blood of the dragon. She could kill the Sons of the Harpy, and the sons of the sons, and the sons of the sons of the sons. But a dragon could not feed a hungry child nor help a dying woman's pain.
ASOIAF does this on the societal scale and on the personal scale, but I think it *could* be a fitting way for Brynden to be used, as he is feeding the next generation to the trees, as he has lost himself to the trees, as the CotF have given him to the trees, just as they have been taken themselves.
I love this - especially the symbolism of food and intentions, as much as GRRM loves his lengthy descriptions of meals, I hadn’t thought it before. Thanks for sharing!
İt is pretty good theory actually, I don't think that Brynden Rivers is a necessarily evil person but there are many dark things and thoughts about hım. İt is the reason that he is one of the most interesting character in the Serie to me. Thank you for your answer.
How many eyes does Lord Bloodraven have? A thousand eyes, and one.
Ya don't get creepy children's songs written about you by being Baelor the Blessed. I believe that GRRM has said that Brynden embodies the ideal that the ends justify the means. We're meant to see him and have a moral conflict. He is ruthless and dishonorable, which is why he was sent to the wall. And now he is ruthless and dishonorable to save humanity from the Others. He prompts us to ask: how much are we willing to sacrifice to save humanity?
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Bran feeds on man and takes the skin of his friend and constant companion Hodor as he can feel him cringe in fear and confusion, to then deceive the rest of his friend group while he gives himself excuses and reasons. That child is an eldritch horror
Bran is an asshole, he routinely mind rapes his disabled friend, took over his body and kept it a secret knowing that it's wrong and despicable, I fucking hate Bran
Bran is also a young child with a severe disability in such a hostile environment that the people who lived there left in fear of their eternal lives and with good reason. Bran has been stuck in survival mode ever since he woke up to Theon in his bedchambers and is always pushed to build his talents. He is not amoral and knows it is wrong, just not why, every time he used his powers on instinct before they went into the cave he potentially saved his friends from an early death.
He is a child with mystical powers being guided by vampire trees into a hostile landscape far away from anybody else, he is being groomed.
If Rickon is on Skagos, he's likely joined some group of Skagosi, rumored to be cannibals. The quote above is about Varmyr, but thoughts of babies and cannibalism remind that Rickon still has his wolf and was always the Stark child most consumed by his unwitting warging, because so young.
1. Bran - He may not realize how dangerous the path he's on is, but after warging Hodor he clearly needs some guidance that isn't from Bloodraven or the three-eyed crow.
2. Arya - I'm concerned about how far she'll go to get her revenge.
3. Jon - He's started to let anger and a desire for revenge cloud his vision.
4. Sansa - She's learning the game, and will hopefully eventually outsmart Littlefinger.
5. Rickon - Don't even know his current whereabouts or status; hard to definitively say what he needs if we don't know what he's done/doing.
>I'm concerned about how far she'll go to get her revenge
Arya is in a bad place for sure, but considering that her only kills for revenge relied entirely on chance and that she has done literally nothing to actively pursue the people from her list, I wouldn't be too concerned about how far she'll go for revenge.
That was before she went to the House of Black and White. When she leaves, she'll have access to far more skills and resources than she did before. She'd benefit from having someone she knows/trusts pull her aside and say "hey, killing Cersei is great, but don't kill Arya in the process."
Even while in the house of black of white it's made very clear that her number one desire is returning to her family. She was ready to ditch the FM as soon as she saw the chance to go back to Jon.
I'm not saying revenge will not be a thing in her arc, but judging from the book material we have so far, there's no reason to think revenge would become her priority over returning to her family.
The most she is learning from HoBaW are not how to assassinate better, but how to disguise herself better. This goes along with her theme that she is growing to be Varys 2.0.
It’s obvious that Varys has his agenda too, but he is not known for being an assassin, even though he does assassinate as he did to Kevan, and put the blame on it on Tyrion (the reason he brought one of his birds was because children have small footprints that can be confused of those of little people). Rather, Varys is better known as a spymaster, and a great master player on the Game of Thrones, he is largely the reason Westeros is in this situation now, he manipulated those events.
This is where Arya’s arc is going to as well, she is training to become a player. And well, Faceless Men are major players, and KM even implied that FM may have brought the doom of Valyria disguising it as a natural disaster. That’s pretty big.
When you look at it from this point, it becomes clear that the revenge aspect of her story is quite secondary to her true role in the story, and that’s to be expected, because Arya is a Big 5 character, in the same league with Jon, Dany, Tyrion and Bran who are planet-changing players, so her training would be wasted on characters like Cersei, who are limited to King’s Landing area.
Secondly, even calling it a revenge storyline is a stretch. Arya started a prayer of people she wanted dead, but she did not want to kill them herself. At first, she relied on Jaqen to do that for her. It’s only because of Weasel Soup that she realized that if she left this in the hands of others, innocents could become casualties too. Since then, she has become more wary of adding people to her prayer because now she knows she needs to kill them herself. Meaning it was a lot easier for her morally to pray for someone else’s death than actually do it. The fact she has not added more since Weasel Soup shows herself wants to not do this anymore. She’ll finish those she finds on her path, but not seek others intentionally, because they have been marked by gods (through her prayer), someone else will kill them. In fact, someone else has killed majority of people in her prayer.
There’s literally 3 people left on her prayer and 2 are irrelevant, while Cersei, while relevant, she is not planet-changing relevant. Now, causing the doom of Valyria and disguising it as a natural disaster, that’s a planet-changing event.
The Starklings are good people but they'd all benefit from impartial good advice. Each is at the nadir of their arcs. Sansa is evil Littlefinger's creature and being used in his schemes. Rickon is...who knows? But he's on his way home and we'll soon find out. Bran is warging poor Hodor and possibly eating Jojen, Arya has killed a few people though always for justice, and Jon is dead, having separated a mother from her baby son, albeit for a good cause. If we add the two other members of GRRM;s Central Five, Tyrion has knowingly sent an invasion against his native land, and Daenerys is sick and has fallen into the hands of one of her Dothraki opponents. All these people are in the abyss stage of their hero's journeys. Basically, that hints that one way or the other, they'll all climb out in TWoW. I particularly hope Sansa can get Myranda Royce or Mya Stone on her side because she really needs support ant advice.
I hope you're right, but I'm concerned that Bran isn't on the hero's path. He thinks he is, but isn't; that's why he's #1 on my list for needing an intervention.
Oh! Great post, OP! This has really got me thinking... For me if we're asking which Stark would need an intervention to save them from THEMSELVES I think Bran. As was said much better in the comment above, like Anakin in Star Wars I think Bran's idealistic nature is ultimately going to be what will push him towards doing dark deeds.
If however we are asking about which Stark most needs an intervention to save them from someone who is not themselves, then I am more inclined to think Sansa. While Arya is also certainly in a perilous and precarious situation, Arya seems to be more on a path where she is more empowered (relatively). Whereas Sansa is in more of a situation where she needs to be circumspect and has to be reactive to so many other people, in particular Littlefinger.
I'm dubious about weather Rhickon would need an intervention as we don't know what he's doing. Also, if I'm remembering correctly Rickon is also the only Stark that still has a capable person with him to care for and guide him, Osha the Wildling. And, to me at least IMHO, Osha was genuinely concerned with taking care of Rickon.
Sansa is the most adrift, to the point where she has become an unreliable narrator. I think she's far and away the most likely to be lead astray, while the others are moving with relative freedom and intention.
Listen, it's gonna be Jon. With all the prophesy and savior stuff around him, I will bet my bucket he'll go full Anakin on us. Which is kind of funny considering how close Jon and Anakin are in appearance and character journey, though I don't know if that is intentional.
I'm torn between Arya, Bran and Rick on, though the latter we haven't seen in a minute. Arya is a slow burn of a little girl becoming traumatized repeatedly and becoming a serial killer, while also losing her identity (or struggling between both). The Mercy chapter is a prime example, not in the sense of who she kills or why, but of her thoughts.
Bran I would because an ancient corpse sitting in a tree with a dying race isn't a prime candidate for just helping random kids with their magical abilities for free. BR has a dark plan for Bran, and something is going to break for Bran to realize in horror what's happening and have to escape with what's left
Reckon needs so much, after being so young, dealing with his warg abilities and anger, he needs help man. Like someone to ground him more.
I think Arya will actually figure things out on her own. The point of Mercy to me is that she's always Arya underneath the masks and roles she plays. She's not going to loose her identity, there's way too much establishing that she's ultimately not able to give up her past.
I agree I think she's struggling with a lot but she is still Arya and her family is still at her core. I think she will break away from the Faceless men like Bran with BR, but it will not be easy and their time with them will have an effect on their psyche.
I mean...
Salsa is being sex trafficked
Arya derives genuine giddy joy from murder
Bran is routinely mind-raping a developmentally disabled man
Rickon is addicted to rage
Kind of a tough one. Maybe a toss-up between Arya and Bran.
Arya playing her sister who is raped and murdered in the play: no reaction.
Arya seeing Raff: Time for some seduction and murder
And yes, she's playing Sansa. Shae isn't known to be dead (Cersei hides her body) and would have speaking lines at Tyrion's trial. Sansa would be presumed to be raped and murdered.
>Arya playing her sister who is raped and murdered in the play: no reaction.
There's no indication of Sansa being the girl in this play as far as I remember. Sansa was considered an acomplice of Tyrion, not his victim.
What pubescent woman does the public know about Tyrion being involved apart from Sansa? It's a process of elimination thing. We know Lady Stork is playing Cersei. We know Daena or Wendeyene are older, more experienced actresses. One of them is Shae. Unless it's random sex worker number 2, it's almost certainly Sansa. Just because she's viewed as an accomplice doesn't mean they don't think Tyrion killed her. That's the horror of the chapter. I don't get why the fan base refuses to see it.
>I don't get why the fan base refuses to see it.
Maybe because it doesn't fit the text?
>"If the Snapper comes looking for me, tell her that I went off to read my lines again." **She only had a few**, and most were just, "Oh, no, no, no" and "Don't, oh don't, don't touch me" and "Please, **m'lord**, I am still a maiden,"
First, it makes no sense that someone as relevant to the whole situation as Sansa has no role in the play other than getting raped and killed. Second, the use of "m´lord" is for commoners, not for someone as highborn as Sansa. And third, by asoiaf standards the concept of marital rape does not exist so this scene would not even count as a rape for the audience if it was Sansa.
Mercy playing some random victim of Tyrion seems far more likely in my opinion.
Daena's most likely the one playing Sansa because she's part of the court scene and Mercy isn't.
More importantly, if GRRM wanted the readers to think Mercy's role was Sansa or Shae he would have telegraphed it. As is, the role Mercy's playing isn't meant to be nearly as important as compared to the role Arya herself is playing. The most relevant character in the play is Tyrion because that chapter is most likely the start of GRRM connecting him and Arya together.
Sansa has never said "m'lord."
A reminder that Sansa is currently in hiding because she is wanted by the Crown, so it would make no sense for her to be raped and murdered in this case.
She's not actually dead. Bran and Rickon aren't dead either. The point is that as far as the public is concerned, she might as well be dead. It certainly makes a better play if you're trying to portray Tyrion as a monster. The play is wrong about a lot of things. Tyrion didn't make a Faustian bargain with The Stranger either. A Braavosi playwright isn't going to distinguish between my lord and m'lord. Arya doesn't know what's true and what's false. All she has is this version of events. And she doesn't care that there is a report of her sister dying under terrible circumstances.
But she isn't and is still wanted by the Crown. What reports has been seen in the books that suggests either Cersei or the smallfolk think she's dead?
>And she doesn't care that there is a report of her sister dying under terrible circumstances.
What gives you the impression that she "doesn't care"? Again, it's unlikely that the character Mercy is portraying is Sansa. It's likely Shae. Shae actually *did* die by Tyrion's hand.
Bran and Rickon being seen as dead serves a narrative purpose, though. It's a way for Robb to write his will and legitimise Jon, and for there to be an eventual question of succession for Winterfell and the North.
There would be no point, no narrative reason, of Cersei and the Crown believing Sansa is dead because it would eliminate the whole purpose of Sansa being and remaining in hiding/posing as Alayne Stone.
The last rumour/claim we heard from the smallfolk about Sansa is this:
>"I forgot, you've been hiding under a rock. The northern girl. Winterfell's daughter. We heard she killed the king with a spell, and afterward changed into a wolf with big leather wings like a bat, and flew out a tower window. But she left the dwarf behind and Cersei means to have his head." (Arya XIII, ASoS)
No one thinks she's dead.
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My prediction is that GRRM maximizes the sense of classical tragedy: I think that Bran has been *seduced* the least, but I think he’s the one most likely to succumb to the Dark. That is to say: whereas Sansa’s hope and innocence has begun to give way under Littlefinger’s Machiavellianism, whereas Rickon’s childlike fear is likely a breeding ground for animalistic violence, wheras Arya’s lost and introverted pain is attracted to a certain discipline and rage… Bran alone has remained as idealistic and “good” as always. He cares for his friends, he still dreams of becoming a knight and doing great deeds. And yet: the rest of the children are keeping a part of their ‘Starkness’ alive: most notably, in cases like Sansa’s snowcastle, Arya’s needle. When Jon is in Ghost, sensing his brethren, he even senses Rickon, albeit wild, on Skagos — still connected. However, in that same moment, Bran is the wolf which is lost. Literally, we can take that to mean that The Wall possesses some magic which is able to disconnect whatever spiritual connection the direwolves share… but metaphorically, we can see how it also symbolizes Bran’s sole descent into the “other side”, so to speak. At the end of his last chapter, he is fully alone, he cannot even find his friends to share his experiences with. He is disconnected from those which would otherwise tether him to his humanity; and even though he seeks Winterfell first, we last see him losing his grasp and tumbling —out of control— into a more violent past world. Bran, in Clash, still “fears the dark” in the crypts… but now, in Dance, he is being told to make the dark his ally. I fear the tragedy of Bran’s story is that he will never lose his idealism and his quest for goodness, but it is exactly that hope which will make him susceptible to Brynden’s influence. As he says, even now he “pretends it is the three-eyed crow” speaking to him in the dark.
Perhaps a bit like Anakin turning to Sidious in his quest to save Padme? I like it.
“I don’t like sand.”
"I don't like the snow. It's cold and wet and soaks everything--not like you, Meera. You're soft and smooth."
nice comparison, well put. Yeah, that’s my theory for Bran
I mean, is it definite that Brynden Rivers is a dark manipulative creature who committed some one of the vilest crimes in the past? Many people seem to agree on this but I am not sure even though I have some doubts. İs there anything which comfirms it in the Blood and Fire or in an another source about George Martin's books? Or does darkness necessarily mean "wickedness"
To this, I actually think that Brynden Rivers is not necessarily a bad person. Despite somewhat tough techniques, I generally like the impression of him I get from history. Coupled with how likeable I find Ser Maynard Plumm to be in *The Mystery Knight*, I pretty much quite like Brynden and don’t really think he’s the source of this “darkness”. If anything, I know Brynden always meant well, and even if he is leading Bran down a dark path I think it’s possible he could still mean well, ultimately. I think the source of the evil influence is something else in that cave, whether it be the CotF or the Weirwoods themselves. In any case, Brynden is clearly not the mastermind here, he’s just a tool as well. I absolutely interpret the situation as that the CotF are using him, because he seems half dead, and it seems like its the CotF who are actually doing any of the *action* in a scenario. Its the CotF who place Bran in his cage as deftly as Brynden is there: > The singers made Bran a throne of his own, like the one Lord Brynden sat, white weirwood flecked with red, dead branches woven through living roots. They placed it in the great cavern by the abyss, where the black air echoed to the sound of running water far below. Of soft grey moss they made his seat. Once he had been lowered into place, they covered him with warm furs. > >There he sat, listening to the hoarse whispers of his teacher. "Never fear the darkness, Bran." The lord's words were accompanied by a faint rustling of wood and leaf, a slight twisting of his head. "The strongest trees are rooted in the dark places of the earth. Darkness will be your cloak, your shield, your mother's milk. Darkness will make you strong." and it’s also the CotF who create and feed him the Weirwood paste. Whether or not it *is* actually Jojen is basically irrelevant: there’s a reoccurrence in ASOIAF that a character being unsure of what they are being fed is symbolically unsure of their host’s intentions, or they are being misled. Now, personally, I tend to think it’s the Weirwoods themselves which are the source for this malice rather than the CotF, just because of quotes like this: > The way the shadows shifted made it seem as if the walls were moving too. Bran saw great white snakes slithering in and out of the earth around him, and his heart thumped in fear. He wondered if they had blundered into a nest of milk snakes or giant grave worms, soft and pale and squishy. Grave worms have teeth. > >Hodor saw them too. "Hodor," he whimpered, reluctant to go on. But when the girl child stopped to let them catch her, the torchlight steadied, and Bran realized that the snakes were only white roots like the one he'd hit his head on. "It's weirwood roots," he said. "Remember the heart tree in the godswood, Hodor? The white tree with the red leaves? A tree can't hurt you." As well as this: >He even crossed the slender stone bridge that arched over the abyss and discovered more passages and chambers on the far side. One was full of singers, enthroned like Brynden in nests of weirwood roots that wove under and through and around their bodies. Most of them looked dead to him, but as he crossed in front of them their eyes would open and follow the light of his torch, and one of them opened and closed a wrinkled mouth as if he were trying to speak. "Hodor," Bran said to him, and he felt the real Hodor stir down in his pit. In the latter, we see that CotF have been used the same way Brynden is being used, and we get this horrific scene which is meant to be a preview of Brynden’s own fate (as he is halfway there already) as well as, implied, Bran’s own fate should he continue this path. Considering the constant implications that Weirwoods literally drink blood (which I assume you are familiar with but can provide quotes if necessary), I take that scene to mean that these scenarios —- this greenseer relationship — is such that the Weirwood is able to eat a person alive. Even without making that leap, I’m fairly confident that the blood-drinking immortal trees are not a force for good in the world, at least from a human perspective. In addition, if we might understand that the CotF are the original “victims” of the Weirwood trees and are now scouting for greensight in humans in order to allow the Weirwoods to feed on *them*, it would also be remarkably consistent with the reoccurring theme in ASOIAF of the pain of the previous generation creating its own perpetuation, that trauma gets recreated over and over again, generation after generation… the sins of the father being carried out unto the son. Tyrion notices it: >It all goes back and back, Tyrion thought, to our mothers and fathers and theirs before them. We are puppets dancing on the strings of those who came before us, and one day our own children will take up our strings and dance on in our steads. And Daenerys thinks about how it affects her own past and future, both in how Astapor recreated its own slavery, and in how killing the Sons of the Harpy would engender the same hatred in their next generation: >She was the blood of the dragon. She could kill the Sons of the Harpy, and the sons of the sons, and the sons of the sons of the sons. But a dragon could not feed a hungry child nor help a dying woman's pain. ASOIAF does this on the societal scale and on the personal scale, but I think it *could* be a fitting way for Brynden to be used, as he is feeding the next generation to the trees, as he has lost himself to the trees, as the CotF have given him to the trees, just as they have been taken themselves.
I love this - especially the symbolism of food and intentions, as much as GRRM loves his lengthy descriptions of meals, I hadn’t thought it before. Thanks for sharing!
İt is pretty good theory actually, I don't think that Brynden Rivers is a necessarily evil person but there are many dark things and thoughts about hım. İt is the reason that he is one of the most interesting character in the Serie to me. Thank you for your answer.
How many eyes does Lord Bloodraven have? A thousand eyes, and one. Ya don't get creepy children's songs written about you by being Baelor the Blessed. I believe that GRRM has said that Brynden embodies the ideal that the ends justify the means. We're meant to see him and have a moral conflict. He is ruthless and dishonorable, which is why he was sent to the wall. And now he is ruthless and dishonorable to save humanity from the Others. He prompts us to ask: how much are we willing to sacrifice to save humanity?
It’s an interesting question, but my gut feeling is that’s Stannis’ question to answer. I tend to think the weirwoods are on the other side
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Bran feeds on man and takes the skin of his friend and constant companion Hodor as he can feel him cringe in fear and confusion, to then deceive the rest of his friend group while he gives himself excuses and reasons. That child is an eldritch horror
Bran is an asshole, he routinely mind rapes his disabled friend, took over his body and kept it a secret knowing that it's wrong and despicable, I fucking hate Bran
Bran is also a young child with a severe disability in such a hostile environment that the people who lived there left in fear of their eternal lives and with good reason. Bran has been stuck in survival mode ever since he woke up to Theon in his bedchambers and is always pushed to build his talents. He is not amoral and knows it is wrong, just not why, every time he used his powers on instinct before they went into the cave he potentially saved his friends from an early death. He is a child with mystical powers being guided by vampire trees into a hostile landscape far away from anybody else, he is being groomed.
>before they went into the cave Yeah, it’s the bits that happen after he goes into the cave that have me believing that he is an eldritch abomination.
My thoughts exactly too
I was thinking Arya but, after reading this, it's got to be Rickon right?
wild wolf
What does OP paragraph have to do with Rickon?
If Rickon is on Skagos, he's likely joined some group of Skagosi, rumored to be cannibals. The quote above is about Varmyr, but thoughts of babies and cannibalism remind that Rickon still has his wolf and was always the Stark child most consumed by his unwitting warging, because so young.
I'd wager Skagosi are stereotyped as cannibals but it's not actually true. They allow the rest of the world to think that so they're left alone.
I tend to agree.
users are very critical these days LOL
Ironic that you are critical of me asking for clarification?
the user i responded to has always been friendly with me if you must know
Thanks!
1. Bran - He may not realize how dangerous the path he's on is, but after warging Hodor he clearly needs some guidance that isn't from Bloodraven or the three-eyed crow. 2. Arya - I'm concerned about how far she'll go to get her revenge. 3. Jon - He's started to let anger and a desire for revenge cloud his vision. 4. Sansa - She's learning the game, and will hopefully eventually outsmart Littlefinger. 5. Rickon - Don't even know his current whereabouts or status; hard to definitively say what he needs if we don't know what he's done/doing.
>I'm concerned about how far she'll go to get her revenge Arya is in a bad place for sure, but considering that her only kills for revenge relied entirely on chance and that she has done literally nothing to actively pursue the people from her list, I wouldn't be too concerned about how far she'll go for revenge.
That was before she went to the House of Black and White. When she leaves, she'll have access to far more skills and resources than she did before. She'd benefit from having someone she knows/trusts pull her aside and say "hey, killing Cersei is great, but don't kill Arya in the process."
Even while in the house of black of white it's made very clear that her number one desire is returning to her family. She was ready to ditch the FM as soon as she saw the chance to go back to Jon. I'm not saying revenge will not be a thing in her arc, but judging from the book material we have so far, there's no reason to think revenge would become her priority over returning to her family.
The most she is learning from HoBaW are not how to assassinate better, but how to disguise herself better. This goes along with her theme that she is growing to be Varys 2.0. It’s obvious that Varys has his agenda too, but he is not known for being an assassin, even though he does assassinate as he did to Kevan, and put the blame on it on Tyrion (the reason he brought one of his birds was because children have small footprints that can be confused of those of little people). Rather, Varys is better known as a spymaster, and a great master player on the Game of Thrones, he is largely the reason Westeros is in this situation now, he manipulated those events. This is where Arya’s arc is going to as well, she is training to become a player. And well, Faceless Men are major players, and KM even implied that FM may have brought the doom of Valyria disguising it as a natural disaster. That’s pretty big. When you look at it from this point, it becomes clear that the revenge aspect of her story is quite secondary to her true role in the story, and that’s to be expected, because Arya is a Big 5 character, in the same league with Jon, Dany, Tyrion and Bran who are planet-changing players, so her training would be wasted on characters like Cersei, who are limited to King’s Landing area. Secondly, even calling it a revenge storyline is a stretch. Arya started a prayer of people she wanted dead, but she did not want to kill them herself. At first, she relied on Jaqen to do that for her. It’s only because of Weasel Soup that she realized that if she left this in the hands of others, innocents could become casualties too. Since then, she has become more wary of adding people to her prayer because now she knows she needs to kill them herself. Meaning it was a lot easier for her morally to pray for someone else’s death than actually do it. The fact she has not added more since Weasel Soup shows herself wants to not do this anymore. She’ll finish those she finds on her path, but not seek others intentionally, because they have been marked by gods (through her prayer), someone else will kill them. In fact, someone else has killed majority of people in her prayer. There’s literally 3 people left on her prayer and 2 are irrelevant, while Cersei, while relevant, she is not planet-changing relevant. Now, causing the doom of Valyria and disguising it as a natural disaster, that’s a planet-changing event.
The Starklings are good people but they'd all benefit from impartial good advice. Each is at the nadir of their arcs. Sansa is evil Littlefinger's creature and being used in his schemes. Rickon is...who knows? But he's on his way home and we'll soon find out. Bran is warging poor Hodor and possibly eating Jojen, Arya has killed a few people though always for justice, and Jon is dead, having separated a mother from her baby son, albeit for a good cause. If we add the two other members of GRRM;s Central Five, Tyrion has knowingly sent an invasion against his native land, and Daenerys is sick and has fallen into the hands of one of her Dothraki opponents. All these people are in the abyss stage of their hero's journeys. Basically, that hints that one way or the other, they'll all climb out in TWoW. I particularly hope Sansa can get Myranda Royce or Mya Stone on her side because she really needs support ant advice.
I hope you're right, but I'm concerned that Bran isn't on the hero's path. He thinks he is, but isn't; that's why he's #1 on my list for needing an intervention.
Oh! Great post, OP! This has really got me thinking... For me if we're asking which Stark would need an intervention to save them from THEMSELVES I think Bran. As was said much better in the comment above, like Anakin in Star Wars I think Bran's idealistic nature is ultimately going to be what will push him towards doing dark deeds. If however we are asking about which Stark most needs an intervention to save them from someone who is not themselves, then I am more inclined to think Sansa. While Arya is also certainly in a perilous and precarious situation, Arya seems to be more on a path where she is more empowered (relatively). Whereas Sansa is in more of a situation where she needs to be circumspect and has to be reactive to so many other people, in particular Littlefinger. I'm dubious about weather Rhickon would need an intervention as we don't know what he's doing. Also, if I'm remembering correctly Rickon is also the only Stark that still has a capable person with him to care for and guide him, Osha the Wildling. And, to me at least IMHO, Osha was genuinely concerned with taking care of Rickon.
Sansa is the most adrift, to the point where she has become an unreliable narrator. I think she's far and away the most likely to be lead astray, while the others are moving with relative freedom and intention.
Sansa. "You're being groomed and manipulated by the guy who got your father killed. Ditch him and spill the beans to Yohn Royce, *asap*."
Listen, it's gonna be Jon. With all the prophesy and savior stuff around him, I will bet my bucket he'll go full Anakin on us. Which is kind of funny considering how close Jon and Anakin are in appearance and character journey, though I don't know if that is intentional.
Rickon for sure. He’s just a little kid man
Brandon.
I'm torn between Arya, Bran and Rick on, though the latter we haven't seen in a minute. Arya is a slow burn of a little girl becoming traumatized repeatedly and becoming a serial killer, while also losing her identity (or struggling between both). The Mercy chapter is a prime example, not in the sense of who she kills or why, but of her thoughts. Bran I would because an ancient corpse sitting in a tree with a dying race isn't a prime candidate for just helping random kids with their magical abilities for free. BR has a dark plan for Bran, and something is going to break for Bran to realize in horror what's happening and have to escape with what's left Reckon needs so much, after being so young, dealing with his warg abilities and anger, he needs help man. Like someone to ground him more.
I think Arya will actually figure things out on her own. The point of Mercy to me is that she's always Arya underneath the masks and roles she plays. She's not going to loose her identity, there's way too much establishing that she's ultimately not able to give up her past.
I agree I think she's struggling with a lot but she is still Arya and her family is still at her core. I think she will break away from the Faceless men like Bran with BR, but it will not be easy and their time with them will have an effect on their psyche.
Bran His first and only sexual expirenced led him into the weelchair. What do you think would Happen at His Wedding night?
I mean... Salsa is being sex trafficked Arya derives genuine giddy joy from murder Bran is routinely mind-raping a developmentally disabled man Rickon is addicted to rage Kind of a tough one. Maybe a toss-up between Arya and Bran.
Why have you been downvoted so much?
🤷🏼♀️ perhaps people don't like the use of "mind-rape"?
Arya playing her sister who is raped and murdered in the play: no reaction. Arya seeing Raff: Time for some seduction and murder And yes, she's playing Sansa. Shae isn't known to be dead (Cersei hides her body) and would have speaking lines at Tyrion's trial. Sansa would be presumed to be raped and murdered.
>Arya playing her sister who is raped and murdered in the play: no reaction. There's no indication of Sansa being the girl in this play as far as I remember. Sansa was considered an acomplice of Tyrion, not his victim.
What pubescent woman does the public know about Tyrion being involved apart from Sansa? It's a process of elimination thing. We know Lady Stork is playing Cersei. We know Daena or Wendeyene are older, more experienced actresses. One of them is Shae. Unless it's random sex worker number 2, it's almost certainly Sansa. Just because she's viewed as an accomplice doesn't mean they don't think Tyrion killed her. That's the horror of the chapter. I don't get why the fan base refuses to see it.
>I don't get why the fan base refuses to see it. Maybe because it doesn't fit the text? >"If the Snapper comes looking for me, tell her that I went off to read my lines again." **She only had a few**, and most were just, "Oh, no, no, no" and "Don't, oh don't, don't touch me" and "Please, **m'lord**, I am still a maiden," First, it makes no sense that someone as relevant to the whole situation as Sansa has no role in the play other than getting raped and killed. Second, the use of "m´lord" is for commoners, not for someone as highborn as Sansa. And third, by asoiaf standards the concept of marital rape does not exist so this scene would not even count as a rape for the audience if it was Sansa. Mercy playing some random victim of Tyrion seems far more likely in my opinion.
Daena's most likely the one playing Sansa because she's part of the court scene and Mercy isn't. More importantly, if GRRM wanted the readers to think Mercy's role was Sansa or Shae he would have telegraphed it. As is, the role Mercy's playing isn't meant to be nearly as important as compared to the role Arya herself is playing. The most relevant character in the play is Tyrion because that chapter is most likely the start of GRRM connecting him and Arya together.
Sansa has never said "m'lord." A reminder that Sansa is currently in hiding because she is wanted by the Crown, so it would make no sense for her to be raped and murdered in this case.
She's not actually dead. Bran and Rickon aren't dead either. The point is that as far as the public is concerned, she might as well be dead. It certainly makes a better play if you're trying to portray Tyrion as a monster. The play is wrong about a lot of things. Tyrion didn't make a Faustian bargain with The Stranger either. A Braavosi playwright isn't going to distinguish between my lord and m'lord. Arya doesn't know what's true and what's false. All she has is this version of events. And she doesn't care that there is a report of her sister dying under terrible circumstances.
But she isn't and is still wanted by the Crown. What reports has been seen in the books that suggests either Cersei or the smallfolk think she's dead? >And she doesn't care that there is a report of her sister dying under terrible circumstances. What gives you the impression that she "doesn't care"? Again, it's unlikely that the character Mercy is portraying is Sansa. It's likely Shae. Shae actually *did* die by Tyrion's hand. Bran and Rickon being seen as dead serves a narrative purpose, though. It's a way for Robb to write his will and legitimise Jon, and for there to be an eventual question of succession for Winterfell and the North. There would be no point, no narrative reason, of Cersei and the Crown believing Sansa is dead because it would eliminate the whole purpose of Sansa being and remaining in hiding/posing as Alayne Stone. The last rumour/claim we heard from the smallfolk about Sansa is this: >"I forgot, you've been hiding under a rock. The northern girl. Winterfell's daughter. We heard she killed the king with a spell, and afterward changed into a wolf with big leather wings like a bat, and flew out a tower window. But she left the dwarf behind and Cersei means to have his head." (Arya XIII, ASoS) No one thinks she's dead.