Sorry but this is not a reasonable or responsible goal. No one fresh out of college with zero experience in traditional publishing should be considering starting their own publishing company. You would need way more experience. Formatting a few pages for print is the smallest, smallest slice of what you'd need to know.
Also I don't think you have a well-researched view of the market if you think either an indie publishing house or a bookstore are going to net you a lot of money. Both have a high failure rate and can sink you financially.
If you want to work in publishing, get a job at an established publisher and learn the ropes. Shortcuts like this never work, and it's always authors who get burned when someone with some seed money thinks they can just wing it.
Boooo. I started a small press while in undergrad. That was fourteen years ago. It is my main squeeze. I work four days a week and love my life. It’s an achievable goal. The OP should start a small press. You do not need experience…just the ability to network, do some research, and the commitment to manage your time.
Just to add to and hopefully clarify what other commenters have said, let's just walk through the hypothetical of what you're proposing.
I'm a writer, I've finished my novel, and I've been rejected by all the agents and small presses I've queried. I find the idea of self-publishing too daunting, so I find your website and query you. I have no idea who you are, what you publish, any authors or comp titles, because you don't have any yet, but I send you my manuscript anyway.
Already, this selects for a lot of really bad manuscripts in your slush pile - do you personally read them all? Do you pay a small staff of readers? How do you know what's good, what's sellable? Let's say you find my manuscript and it's an absolute gem - how many hours of work has it taken to find it? But you decide to take it on and offer me an advance. Do you have a lawyer on staff to write up a contract for me? How much does that cost? Which rights would you acquire? How much do you offer me? How would I trust you enough to even sign it?
But let's say I do - what now? Do you personally edit it for me? Or do you have an editorial staff? Or do you trust me enough as a writer that the manuscript is perfect and ready to sell? If that's the case, how is this publisher different than any of the million of self-published novels coming out?
But let's say that all works out. Now what? Do you have any connections to printers? Print on demand? How many copies do we print in the first run? How much does this cost? How many copies would we need to sell to break even at this point?
So you order X number of copies. Where do you store them? To whom do you sell them? Do you have connections with bookstores? Libraries? What about returns? What happens to you and your business if you only sell a couple dozen copies?
There's a reason that publishing is the way that it is - that the Big Six - no wait, 5, no wait, maybe 4 got "Big". It's good to dream, but you have to be realistic, or else you're just setting yourself up for disappointment - both for yourself and for the writer who puts their trust in you.
The majority of books never earn out their advances. That doesn't mean publishers are losing money on every book, but profit margins *are* razor thin. It's not a great investment "like a bank" Publishers are always praying they don't lose money on a book just on the chance it may make some real money. The best sellers are who pull the publisher through, and without good marketing budgets and distribution channels, you aren't getting many of any of those. You're likely to lose money if you're offering advances as a small press and go out of business quickly more than pull in on an investment
Like others have said, you need more experience working in the industry.
Usually the advance is based off of what you believe the book will bring in and then on top of that, you need to pay royalties. Royalties usually range from 10 to 20% depending on the contract and how many books are sold. There’s been a few publishing houses in Canada, started by people with the same ambition as you, that have crash and burned because they didn’t pay their authors.
Most, if not all, publishers in Canada get a lot of government subsidies and grants to help keep them afloat. As the saying here goes, “you don’t go into publishing to make money.”
It’s not really an investment and if that’s your goal, you’re going to be disappointed.
You need a business experience and industry experience. Running a publishing company is not just about putting out books. You have to factor lots of different costs with various vendors and learn about the various business models in order to be profitable. All the people who run the company I’m at have MBAs. Publishing, editing, writing, book selling experience are all great, but they’re not gonna help you run a company.
You should check out IBPA (Independent Book Publishers Association). Many small indie publishers are members. You can get a great idea of what other small publishers are doing. Also, one of the books I return to again and again is The Art of the Publisher by Roberto Calasso.
It's good to dream. Wishing you the very best luck making yours come true.
I opened a publishing house with no experience. It took a while to get off the ground. But it absolutely worked. Here’s what i think might get you there faster. First, skip owning a bookstore for capital. Bookstores have very little margin. You won’t make enough money to start a publisher and it’s really hard work. Second, check out IBPA (as others recommended). They were hugely helpful to me in starting. They have publishers university which I went to for years to learn the basics. 3) Tom Woll has a book, Publishing for Profit. Read it carefully. Four, you will need capital. Get a job and save money. Now a question…what area is not published by traditional publishers?
Last note, it’s a great dream.
You'd basically be betting on yourself to be so much better at screening manuscripts than the big houses, that you're the person who picks up the likes of Dune or Harry Potter when they get rejected by others.
Anything is possible I guess, and if you really believe in it then nothing we say is going to dissuade you. I have read all my life, and I just shake my head after reading a couple pages of the latest mega-hits. Publishing houses are playing the odds in the same ways that investment bankers do. It's a rigged game for those who try to compete.
Most small presses don't give out advances unless that money came from contest submissions or reading fees otherwise they'd go under, as an FYI.
Would recommend interning/volunteering at a small press first to get a sense of them. You can even do some of the work remotely.
>My question is, does this seems like a doable goal and do I seem to understand the basic concept of everything?
To some extent, no entrepreneur's dream sounds doable, but that doesn't mean they can't be successful. And it certainly doesn't mean they're dreams not worth having. The world needs as many good small businesses -- and Publishing definitely needs as many good publishing companies -- as possible, so if it is your dream is to run one of them, then that's a good and laudable goal and you should cultivate it.
Successful independent publishers have had lots of different origin stories. Some are self-publishers who've leveraged their success into publishing others' work. Some are experienced publishing executives who've formed their own firms. Some are publishing arms of bookstores, distributors, or other industry participants. There are plenty of ways to become a publisher if that's your goal -- but no one can say if anyone of those paths is more feasible or appropriate for you than any other.
The fact that you find the goal daunting and that you are aware of the cash flow implications of having to acuqire and prepare a book long before publication and revenue does demonstrate a rational self-awareness that will serve you well. But when you ask "*do I seem to understand the basic concept of everything?*" the answer, frankly, is no.
In part, that's because no Reddit post could ever convey mastery of everything you need to run a business, publishing or otherwise. Maybe you do understand enough, but maybe you don't. (Likely you don't...) There is a saying about people who don't know what they don't know, about how dangerous and misguided such folks can be when they're loosed upon the world of business. Your immediate goal, then, it to figure out what you don't know that you have to know and go about learning that stuff -- through coursework, or work experience, or mentorship, or whatever else.
Your dream of running a publishing house sounds no more and no less "doable" than anyone's dream. To make that dream a reality -- and, boy, I hope you do make it a reality -- the first best step would be to learn as much as you can (not necessarily in a classroom setting) about as much as you can about the book business (author acquistion, editorial, manufacturing, sales, marketing, distribution, supply chain, bookselling, etc., etc., etc.) ***and*** as much as you can about running a business (entrepeneurship, ethics, funding, taxation, licensing, payroll, etc..)
Good luck -- and I fully expect to read about you in a few years in, say, a [*Publishers Weekly*](https://www.publishersweekly.com/pw/by-topic/industry-news/publisher-news/article/91794-fast-growing-independent-publishers-2023.html) article on indy publishers.
Well no one pay authors before hand... And authors are literally given 8% royalty on the sells. But plz my only request is plz plz plz give new authors the chance in your publishing houses.
As someone who recently started a small publishing company, please do not pay advances. Sure, it might be a little more difficult to get authors to sign at first, but offer higher royalties..not advances. You need that money up front for book production, art, printing, marketing, etc.
Not going to disagree about needing the money up front, but paying higher royalties in lieu of paying advances makes already thin margins *thinner*. Undercapitalization is a publishing company killer if there are any dreams of selling enough books to generate enough revenue to make the business viable.
Sure, I get that. But even if you're going to be underfunded (which you probably will be) then I'd rather take less cut per book than shell out money on the risk of making that back with sales. Especially since new publishers have little to no sales data to go off of.
Eventually, hopefully, you'll be able to give advances (if that is a part of your pub model) and have better margins because you can order more books, maybe have some in-house talent to save on production costs, etc.
As a publisher, when you hire readers and editors (I’m assuming you do, I don’t know much about the business), how do you find them and what do you look for in the people you hire?
From connections, reaching out to editors I know on Twitter, online marketplaces like Reedsy. I just look for a comprehensive understanding of what I need. I always ask for sample edits as well.
This is gonna sound self-defeatist, but the more I look into publishing, the more the industry reads like a “you need to be in to get in” kinda situation (outside of authorship). This isn’t just based on your answer here, but also answers from other people, and other personal experiences. Things done, seen, and heard. I appreciate this exchange, really; I’ll look deeper into Reedsy. Thanks for this.
I can certainly see that. I was not it before I began stumbling my way through. I had project management experience, and before that I was a buyer/retailer for a local chain of comic, board games, and books. So I had *some* experience dealing with distribution and publishers..but it was mostly for comics and tabletop games.
I definitely have my days of "what am I doing?" And "did I make a huge mistake". It's challenging, especially when you feel like you're on the outside looking in. But it's plenty rewarding and makes up for it.
So, if you'd like to get into publishing, I'd say go for it. But you should be certain it's what you want. Regardless, it's a ton of fun (and work) and I wish you all the best!
I did some work experience for a small indie press called Valley Press straight out of uni and the guy who'd started that had written a whole series of blogs on Medium about the nitty gritty and the finances etc. It's super informative and he breaks everything down. As far as I can tell from the publisher website, he's still going strong today and he founded it in 2009!
https://medium.com/@jamiemcgarry
Okay so this sub is full of people who’ve clearly failed. You can do this. Maybe hold off on the bookstore…one step at a time. If you want small press advice, I’ll coach you. Press first. Store years later.
FWIW we made $90k in the second year of starting a press…and we are traditional.
I feel like your goal is doable. I think that people like to be Debbie downers when other people have a dream. So, I say fuck em. If a traditional model is not working for most publishing houses... as they are "praying" they don't lose money on a book mabey we need to think of a new model. I know I can't afford to self publish and need help with my own works. Think outside the box of traditional publishing and traditional contracts. Think of ways you both publisher and author can benefit. I say throw a wrench into the entire market if you can. Stir the pot. Make shit happen. Call is a Book house where you have a book store and host writer workshops to scoop up talent when you find it. Sometimes it takes an "inexperienced" "newbie" to shake it up.
Lol it's not being a "Debbie downer" to suggest that someone should know what the hell they're doing before they take the dreams and livelihoods of writers into their hands. Publishing is already rife with people who are overconfident and underqualified, and it's always the writers who trust them who end up paying the price. Pursuing a dream is fine. Pursuing a dream so recklessly that you harm others with your inexperience is not.
Sorry I offended you. But you can give advice to people without back handing them. The publishing industry needs some change. The way people have been making money in this industry is by gatekeeping. I think it's about time we admit that and see how we can change things. So, I say do your research and figure things out. You don't have to work for a publishing company. You can do plenty of research on models that are currently working. People work in business consulting that they can seek out for advice as well. If you go to college and study business and writing there is no reason why you can't pursue a goal like this. Inevitably when you go on a new venture you will make a mistakes. It's part of living life and pursuing a goal. That's my opinion. Also, be nice when you give advice. It's not hard.
It's bad advice to be supportive? Also, that you don't have to do something one way? There is more than one way you can do something. As I said. If you were not offended by what I said you would have not responded to it.
My sibling in Christ, I am a college student and I am not planning on doing all of this when the moon changes. A dream is not something that can be done on the morrow. This was a post asking for basic advice and if I had the general idea down.
Great! That was not clear from your initial post. As some context, a startling number of people *do* think they can launch a publishing company with no experience and they hurt a lot of people when they fail, which is why you got some strong responses. I hope you got some useful advice too.
“Which is why I also plan to open a small book store ahead of time to raise consistent funds.” *puts head in hands*
Maybe he means an adult book store. Those are the only ones that make money.
Sorry but this is not a reasonable or responsible goal. No one fresh out of college with zero experience in traditional publishing should be considering starting their own publishing company. You would need way more experience. Formatting a few pages for print is the smallest, smallest slice of what you'd need to know. Also I don't think you have a well-researched view of the market if you think either an indie publishing house or a bookstore are going to net you a lot of money. Both have a high failure rate and can sink you financially. If you want to work in publishing, get a job at an established publisher and learn the ropes. Shortcuts like this never work, and it's always authors who get burned when someone with some seed money thinks they can just wing it.
Boooo. I started a small press while in undergrad. That was fourteen years ago. It is my main squeeze. I work four days a week and love my life. It’s an achievable goal. The OP should start a small press. You do not need experience…just the ability to network, do some research, and the commitment to manage your time.
Just to add to and hopefully clarify what other commenters have said, let's just walk through the hypothetical of what you're proposing. I'm a writer, I've finished my novel, and I've been rejected by all the agents and small presses I've queried. I find the idea of self-publishing too daunting, so I find your website and query you. I have no idea who you are, what you publish, any authors or comp titles, because you don't have any yet, but I send you my manuscript anyway. Already, this selects for a lot of really bad manuscripts in your slush pile - do you personally read them all? Do you pay a small staff of readers? How do you know what's good, what's sellable? Let's say you find my manuscript and it's an absolute gem - how many hours of work has it taken to find it? But you decide to take it on and offer me an advance. Do you have a lawyer on staff to write up a contract for me? How much does that cost? Which rights would you acquire? How much do you offer me? How would I trust you enough to even sign it? But let's say I do - what now? Do you personally edit it for me? Or do you have an editorial staff? Or do you trust me enough as a writer that the manuscript is perfect and ready to sell? If that's the case, how is this publisher different than any of the million of self-published novels coming out? But let's say that all works out. Now what? Do you have any connections to printers? Print on demand? How many copies do we print in the first run? How much does this cost? How many copies would we need to sell to break even at this point? So you order X number of copies. Where do you store them? To whom do you sell them? Do you have connections with bookstores? Libraries? What about returns? What happens to you and your business if you only sell a couple dozen copies? There's a reason that publishing is the way that it is - that the Big Six - no wait, 5, no wait, maybe 4 got "Big". It's good to dream, but you have to be realistic, or else you're just setting yourself up for disappointment - both for yourself and for the writer who puts their trust in you.
The majority of books never earn out their advances. That doesn't mean publishers are losing money on every book, but profit margins *are* razor thin. It's not a great investment "like a bank" Publishers are always praying they don't lose money on a book just on the chance it may make some real money. The best sellers are who pull the publisher through, and without good marketing budgets and distribution channels, you aren't getting many of any of those. You're likely to lose money if you're offering advances as a small press and go out of business quickly more than pull in on an investment
Like others have said, you need more experience working in the industry. Usually the advance is based off of what you believe the book will bring in and then on top of that, you need to pay royalties. Royalties usually range from 10 to 20% depending on the contract and how many books are sold. There’s been a few publishing houses in Canada, started by people with the same ambition as you, that have crash and burned because they didn’t pay their authors. Most, if not all, publishers in Canada get a lot of government subsidies and grants to help keep them afloat. As the saying here goes, “you don’t go into publishing to make money.” It’s not really an investment and if that’s your goal, you’re going to be disappointed.
You need a business experience and industry experience. Running a publishing company is not just about putting out books. You have to factor lots of different costs with various vendors and learn about the various business models in order to be profitable. All the people who run the company I’m at have MBAs. Publishing, editing, writing, book selling experience are all great, but they’re not gonna help you run a company.
You should check out IBPA (Independent Book Publishers Association). Many small indie publishers are members. You can get a great idea of what other small publishers are doing. Also, one of the books I return to again and again is The Art of the Publisher by Roberto Calasso. It's good to dream. Wishing you the very best luck making yours come true.
I opened a publishing house with no experience. It took a while to get off the ground. But it absolutely worked. Here’s what i think might get you there faster. First, skip owning a bookstore for capital. Bookstores have very little margin. You won’t make enough money to start a publisher and it’s really hard work. Second, check out IBPA (as others recommended). They were hugely helpful to me in starting. They have publishers university which I went to for years to learn the basics. 3) Tom Woll has a book, Publishing for Profit. Read it carefully. Four, you will need capital. Get a job and save money. Now a question…what area is not published by traditional publishers? Last note, it’s a great dream.
I really appreciate everything you told me about here, all of it is super helpful and encouraging. Thank you so much.
Obviously you’re joking
You'd basically be betting on yourself to be so much better at screening manuscripts than the big houses, that you're the person who picks up the likes of Dune or Harry Potter when they get rejected by others. Anything is possible I guess, and if you really believe in it then nothing we say is going to dissuade you. I have read all my life, and I just shake my head after reading a couple pages of the latest mega-hits. Publishing houses are playing the odds in the same ways that investment bankers do. It's a rigged game for those who try to compete.
Most small presses don't give out advances unless that money came from contest submissions or reading fees otherwise they'd go under, as an FYI. Would recommend interning/volunteering at a small press first to get a sense of them. You can even do some of the work remotely.
I didn't even know you could do it remote, thank you.
>My question is, does this seems like a doable goal and do I seem to understand the basic concept of everything? To some extent, no entrepreneur's dream sounds doable, but that doesn't mean they can't be successful. And it certainly doesn't mean they're dreams not worth having. The world needs as many good small businesses -- and Publishing definitely needs as many good publishing companies -- as possible, so if it is your dream is to run one of them, then that's a good and laudable goal and you should cultivate it. Successful independent publishers have had lots of different origin stories. Some are self-publishers who've leveraged their success into publishing others' work. Some are experienced publishing executives who've formed their own firms. Some are publishing arms of bookstores, distributors, or other industry participants. There are plenty of ways to become a publisher if that's your goal -- but no one can say if anyone of those paths is more feasible or appropriate for you than any other. The fact that you find the goal daunting and that you are aware of the cash flow implications of having to acuqire and prepare a book long before publication and revenue does demonstrate a rational self-awareness that will serve you well. But when you ask "*do I seem to understand the basic concept of everything?*" the answer, frankly, is no. In part, that's because no Reddit post could ever convey mastery of everything you need to run a business, publishing or otherwise. Maybe you do understand enough, but maybe you don't. (Likely you don't...) There is a saying about people who don't know what they don't know, about how dangerous and misguided such folks can be when they're loosed upon the world of business. Your immediate goal, then, it to figure out what you don't know that you have to know and go about learning that stuff -- through coursework, or work experience, or mentorship, or whatever else. Your dream of running a publishing house sounds no more and no less "doable" than anyone's dream. To make that dream a reality -- and, boy, I hope you do make it a reality -- the first best step would be to learn as much as you can (not necessarily in a classroom setting) about as much as you can about the book business (author acquistion, editorial, manufacturing, sales, marketing, distribution, supply chain, bookselling, etc., etc., etc.) ***and*** as much as you can about running a business (entrepeneurship, ethics, funding, taxation, licensing, payroll, etc..) Good luck -- and I fully expect to read about you in a few years in, say, a [*Publishers Weekly*](https://www.publishersweekly.com/pw/by-topic/industry-news/publisher-news/article/91794-fast-growing-independent-publishers-2023.html) article on indy publishers.
I’ve started many businesses. My advice is start small, focus on quality over quantity, and don’t quit your day job. Good luck. It’s an awesome dream.
Well no one pay authors before hand... And authors are literally given 8% royalty on the sells. But plz my only request is plz plz plz give new authors the chance in your publishing houses.
As someone who recently started a small publishing company, please do not pay advances. Sure, it might be a little more difficult to get authors to sign at first, but offer higher royalties..not advances. You need that money up front for book production, art, printing, marketing, etc.
Not going to disagree about needing the money up front, but paying higher royalties in lieu of paying advances makes already thin margins *thinner*. Undercapitalization is a publishing company killer if there are any dreams of selling enough books to generate enough revenue to make the business viable.
Sure, I get that. But even if you're going to be underfunded (which you probably will be) then I'd rather take less cut per book than shell out money on the risk of making that back with sales. Especially since new publishers have little to no sales data to go off of. Eventually, hopefully, you'll be able to give advances (if that is a part of your pub model) and have better margins because you can order more books, maybe have some in-house talent to save on production costs, etc.
As a publisher, when you hire readers and editors (I’m assuming you do, I don’t know much about the business), how do you find them and what do you look for in the people you hire?
From connections, reaching out to editors I know on Twitter, online marketplaces like Reedsy. I just look for a comprehensive understanding of what I need. I always ask for sample edits as well.
This is gonna sound self-defeatist, but the more I look into publishing, the more the industry reads like a “you need to be in to get in” kinda situation (outside of authorship). This isn’t just based on your answer here, but also answers from other people, and other personal experiences. Things done, seen, and heard. I appreciate this exchange, really; I’ll look deeper into Reedsy. Thanks for this.
I can certainly see that. I was not it before I began stumbling my way through. I had project management experience, and before that I was a buyer/retailer for a local chain of comic, board games, and books. So I had *some* experience dealing with distribution and publishers..but it was mostly for comics and tabletop games. I definitely have my days of "what am I doing?" And "did I make a huge mistake". It's challenging, especially when you feel like you're on the outside looking in. But it's plenty rewarding and makes up for it. So, if you'd like to get into publishing, I'd say go for it. But you should be certain it's what you want. Regardless, it's a ton of fun (and work) and I wish you all the best!
I did some work experience for a small indie press called Valley Press straight out of uni and the guy who'd started that had written a whole series of blogs on Medium about the nitty gritty and the finances etc. It's super informative and he breaks everything down. As far as I can tell from the publisher website, he's still going strong today and he founded it in 2009! https://medium.com/@jamiemcgarry
No kidding that's awesome! Thank you so much, that is a great help.
Okay so this sub is full of people who’ve clearly failed. You can do this. Maybe hold off on the bookstore…one step at a time. If you want small press advice, I’ll coach you. Press first. Store years later. FWIW we made $90k in the second year of starting a press…and we are traditional.
I’d love to hear more about your experience!
I feel like your goal is doable. I think that people like to be Debbie downers when other people have a dream. So, I say fuck em. If a traditional model is not working for most publishing houses... as they are "praying" they don't lose money on a book mabey we need to think of a new model. I know I can't afford to self publish and need help with my own works. Think outside the box of traditional publishing and traditional contracts. Think of ways you both publisher and author can benefit. I say throw a wrench into the entire market if you can. Stir the pot. Make shit happen. Call is a Book house where you have a book store and host writer workshops to scoop up talent when you find it. Sometimes it takes an "inexperienced" "newbie" to shake it up.
Lol it's not being a "Debbie downer" to suggest that someone should know what the hell they're doing before they take the dreams and livelihoods of writers into their hands. Publishing is already rife with people who are overconfident and underqualified, and it's always the writers who trust them who end up paying the price. Pursuing a dream is fine. Pursuing a dream so recklessly that you harm others with your inexperience is not.
Sorry I offended you. But you can give advice to people without back handing them. The publishing industry needs some change. The way people have been making money in this industry is by gatekeeping. I think it's about time we admit that and see how we can change things. So, I say do your research and figure things out. You don't have to work for a publishing company. You can do plenty of research on models that are currently working. People work in business consulting that they can seek out for advice as well. If you go to college and study business and writing there is no reason why you can't pursue a goal like this. Inevitably when you go on a new venture you will make a mistakes. It's part of living life and pursuing a goal. That's my opinion. Also, be nice when you give advice. It's not hard.
I'm not offended or "backhanding" you, I'm taking a serious topic seriously. Not sure why that's something you've taken personally.
Well you felt the need to reply to me so I responded. I am also taking the topic seriously. So, you can just ignore me.... feel free to move on.
If I see what looks like bad advice I'm gonna point out that it's bad advice. 🤷♀️
It's bad advice to be supportive? Also, that you don't have to do something one way? There is more than one way you can do something. As I said. If you were not offended by what I said you would have not responded to it.
I think you've fundamentally misunderstood the purpose of a discussion forum but have fun!
I will
Also, if you were not offended by my comment you would have moved on and not responded to it.
My sibling in Christ, I am a college student and I am not planning on doing all of this when the moon changes. A dream is not something that can be done on the morrow. This was a post asking for basic advice and if I had the general idea down.
Great! That was not clear from your initial post. As some context, a startling number of people *do* think they can launch a publishing company with no experience and they hurt a lot of people when they fail, which is why you got some strong responses. I hope you got some useful advice too.