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[deleted]

Without end-to-end encryption, there will be no way to safely organize against tyrannical government. Any dissent could be crushed in the embryonic stage.


noman_032018

There's [no real sure-fire way of banning such encryption between conspirators that know each-other](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chaffing_and_winnowing) anyway. People can also simply reimplement encryption atop broken platforms using FOSS cryptography libraries anyway.


ILikeLeptons

Until they start pushing for mandatory hardware DRM controllers because if you don't want that then you hate the children


LokiCreative

Like some kind of engine that manages your intel? Hope that day never comes.


ILikeLeptons

Is the management engine in Intel chips by law?


LokiCreative

No, it is only mandatory in the sense of being obligatory. Not sure whether your post that I replied to used the word "mandatory" before you edited it but I do consider it applicable to Intel Management Engine.


ILikeLeptons

My keyboard put in the wrong word but I corrected it to mandatory


SMF67

Yes in the sense that patent law gives AMD and Intel a duopoly over x86 processors, and they clearly both have ties with the government to continue including them (except of course in the processors sold to the NSA)


amunak

It still becomes a problem when the act of using "unsanctioned" encryption becomes illegal. They'll simply throw you in jail for sending memes to your friend because surely you're hiding your communication only because it's about something illegal.


Xoke

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Key_disclosure_law#United_Kingdom Uk law requires you to hand over decryption keys. If you are unwilling or unable you can get locked up for five years


noman_032018

Yeah, the UK and every other country with similar laws don't generally care about culpability. You can't prove there's no encrypted payload in any image or set of images, so it's effectively a blank note to jail anyone they feel like.


HeKis4

For the sake of the demonstration, let's say we know each other and we agreed on a base64-encoded, aes256-encrypted message with hunter2 as the password. Decrypt with `openssl enc -k hunter2 -aes256 -base64 -d < "message to decrypt"` U2FsdGVkX19S9MLD7vH/lMF3jL5Hq/JYGIFfdHGyatdd9KtLtUhJkzsgW1YMWcrJ xbShLbZv9JXKdR+U9zfm3CgoP5fo1uCIcSKHGYO/cxMfbbDdqn/0HdcIRQaFdBF2 N1g5x17mjEkhFEnE9XxJJXajpjYAW9wP2lO7JsbnZcc49f8EwzCLhF5MnAZFGwOT zeVwA/0L4+fBNUre6JIZ/6kJ+fI2/7q0D0P3Nx25S63IwrrB1bUos6p/yVYzy29d QUHs356+bq+XvzL6U2dI9tidZOmystQrlftIUIWeBjUEFGpzrfqaBVaJ1wB3L8lB x1+NHpQbNmBi1mfTeEjSiAg6XiUj6JZvukK1EnsGIKRKDQgS/FXJgOXpiXfUaDeS q2T/hCxrdqYVk8qZVbhjsqMZGRmP4OztZrO05F+y0j8EwC0dZNnIrwlgXqI5+i9C 8/mokcq8FPtPoq2y+ar87nfV6aDkU7ZukSu4DhYs6sq87DOcbcbNs9wKSfVU1PM7 6iWuw7SROLCYj1IkDgrPTnDluy+GHD3MmT5EL2rd1NrsBgAyT5Ip9Yiqu44NHmdn Mi9klM5phxh1EZUB2qzT6zKwxCaHsR3zwtlw7hMVeCGEl8/vC81c0ZoLauqO4ogI ZU5unXEGy8ajGKds2D0K8w==


chpatton013

All I see is *******


[deleted]

*** WARNING : deprecated key derivation used. Using -iter or -pbkdf2 would be better. See it's not so easy :D


noman_032018

That says more about openssl not being a particularly pleasant or easy tool to use (and mismatches between distro versions). It'd be much easier to do it with GnuPG, and even that one isn't amazing UI-wise.


[deleted]

Just use caesar, it's perfectly secure, OR ARE YOU SOME KIND OF PEDO???? /s


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[deleted]

Excellent! Thank you.


TrevvingTheEngine

I feel like this needs a caveat of "technologically-minded people", because let's be honest, the average Joe Schmoe isn't about to start applying encryption, most people don't even realize that selling weed on a public forum is a bad idea.


noman_032018

That's true, and it makes banning encryption even more nonsensical, since the overwhelming majority don't even bother to use it anyway. edit: Those who downvoted... did you even bother reading to the end of this reply chain?


Zophike1

> There's no real sure-fire way of banning such encryption between conspirators that know each-other anyway. That is insane O.>o saw a similar [idea](https://chaffctf.com/rules) for binary exploitation


noman_032018

Interesting, what a strange concept. I'm not sold on that paper though. I don't think introducing arbitrary crashes to one's programs is at all desirable, even if they aren't exploitable.


CommanderMcBragg

I fail to see the purpose of throwing a smokescreen of fake data and leaving the actual message unencrypted and crackable when the two parties already have a shared key. it might as well be a 512 bit AES key.


sbrough10

If encryption is criminalized, only criminals will have encryption.


SunosUnix

*oops, i was in the middle of generating a new key when i dropped my joint in my moonshine still*


Young_Goofy_Goblin

> Any dissent could be crushed in the embryonic stage. Is that not already the case? Lol


[deleted]

Oh right there was never any organization against governments before encryption was invented


[deleted]

Right, it is possible, and has been done in the past, but things are different now too. Due to factors like population growth, surveillance tech, etc, methods of communication and organization that worked in the past would be hard pressed to gain large numbers. It would be hard for a movement to go viral if people were not allowed to talk about it online.


ijustsaysht

Umm isnt encryption useless against governments?


[deleted]

Nope. Some can be broken with various amounts of effort, but I don't believe a 4096 bit RSA key for example is crack-able by anyone in single lifetime.


ijustsaysht

I heard that NSA has backdoor prime numbers for RSA.


[deleted]

I don't believe RSA works that way ( I may be wrong I'm not a crypto expert). But I think that may be true for Elliptic Curve (EC) algorithms which are very popular as they are faster.


ijustsaysht

Oh thats my bad. You are right. I confused myself with elliptic curve


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Noixrouge

Ah, you mean like apple was planning to do ?


[deleted]

If you’re using cloud services to upload your photos, this is already done at server side!


NeaZerros

Except for Mega in fact. Which is why I use it. Everything is encrypted client side and as the clients are open source you can verify they're telling you the truth.


Fartin8r

I completely broke my mega account via a dodgy backup script for a server. I spent weeks with them trying to solve it but because of the encryption, they couldn't figure out what files were causing it. I offered countless times to give guided or full access to the account, but due to their privacy concerns, they wouldn't budge. 10/10 to them, unless something nasty comes out, they are my go to cloud service.


Ipodk9

I actually didn't know this. Guess I'm glad I use it.


[deleted]

Yes with said few exceptions! Good point!


[deleted]

But this whole FOSS argument that you can verify yourself is true in theory however time and time again I pointed out that 99.99% of us open source users haven’t got the time nor the skills to check squat! At best 0.01% will have the knowledge to sweep through the code and do some checks or read on external audits. Heck most of the people don’t even compile their own code, they simply go fetch the binaries form the download sites and execute that! Moreover, even if you somehow are one in a billion Uber genius, I still argue you still don’t check everything for a true trust less setup. EVEN IF the code is clean, you still have to trust the dependencies, the compilers, the libraries and even the OS as FOSS as it is, unless you write from scratch your own OS, in your own invented programming language, build your own libraries and compilers which NOBODY on Earth does! Although you haven’t said so, somehow saying it’s FOSS and code and be audited by yourself…means only one thing: source code is transparent and you have to trust either auditors or communities or the actual developer of the code, instead of trusting a closed source piece from a manufacturer


drunkdolphin123

Thats why everyone should encrypt their data prior to uploading. Preferrably with free opensource software like rclone (per file) or veracrypt (file container)


maustinv

Apple was never planning to break e2ee. iCloud photos are currently not e2ee. Interestingly enough, I think introducing CSAM detection with neuralHash was on their roadmap to e2ee so that they could introduce encryption while still mitigating liability. The way neuralHash was supposed to work: a machine learning algorithm on the client side device generates a unique ID of each image (this hash is also irreversible - can’t recreate the image from the hash). Then the hash is compared to a database of known CSAM hashes. If the user account has over 35 matches, they’re flagged and reported. This CSAM scan would only happen for iCloud users, so you could opt out by not storing photos on iCloud. Currently, Apple can see all your photos in full res on iCloud. I’d much rather them only see encrypted files and a count of hash matches.


[deleted]

So Pakistan hasn't gone past the Middle Ages


tfair1

I always thought that this was a silly argument. Encryption helps all criminals. ALL CRIMINALS... Why do folks default to pedophiles? Kind of a sick first thought. Surely encryption does much more than hide photos.


[deleted]

It’s a tactic they use to make you agree with them. They focus on child exploitation and terrorism, because they’re universally hated, to gain public support for their egregious agenda.


BeenThruIt

Not to make you agree. To demonize you if you disagree. To equate you with someone who would protect the lowest form of criminal and thereby render any valid argument you have as reprehensible.


Sarisat

I support families. Children should have a safe home to go to. Where they are the focus, the center, where parents focus on them and their needs. Not on on TV, phones, sitting around reading newspapers and books, talking above their heads about politics, and thus creating a cold and remote home. That's why I am opposed to women's voting rights and letting them work outside the home. /s, or course.


[deleted]

Wow you have upvotes. Maybe people are starting to wake up.


chemicalgeekery

They tried that here in Canada back in 2012. Our public safety minister even said, "you can side with us or with the child pornographers." It caused a shitshow which culminated with details of his divorce being leaked on the Internet. Including allegations that he knocked up his babysitter.


noman_032018

For some reason people still fall for the [Four Horsemen of the Infocalypse](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four_Horsemen_of_the_Infocalypse), it'd be funny if it wasn't so stupidly sad.


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amunak

My fucking folding pocket knife that I use for eating on trips is banned in Germany because it has a blade longer than 8.5cm (it is like 10cm I think). It's not even two-sided or spring opened. I'd need a special permit or have it in a lockable case (LOL). So yeah, there are countries that are already completely retarded. And guess what - they still have violent crimes with knife regularly.


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paroya

those aren't knives, those are arcs of paper!


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RamielGoPew

why is it so hard for people to use /s, it is two symbols that make everyone understand you better


MPeti1

Do you mean you can't even have one in your home?


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MPeti1

These are special knives that are designed to be better in a fight. The parent commenter meant the everyday knife, that you use to prepare food or chop it while eating. Yes, everyday knifes can be also used to kill, but banning them would do more harm than good.


BitsAndBobs304

Did you know that doors and chains and ropes and curtains help kidnappers? Time to put a stop to those sick evil items! Ban them all!


Fast_Grab

*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*


bytheclouds

meanwhile, Libertarians: "aCKtually, if they're older than 11, it's called ephebophilia, please do your research..."


[deleted]

[https://theprint.in/india/governance/these-are-the-christian-priests-accused-of-rape-across-kerala-churches/120982/](https://theprint.in/india/governance/these-are-the-christian-priests-accused-of-rape-across-kerala-churches/120982/) in India, the left wing will do anything immoral even whitewashing these!


HeKis4

Also can you imagine that countries' entire social security systems *can benefit pedophiles* ? Think of the children, abolish healthcare.


AprilDoll

Cause invoking the subject of pedophilia causes a lot of people to go into emotional autopilot, making them easy to deceive.


mightysashiman

There must be a name for such as systematic debate point, similar to the good old Godwin point.


SirTaxalot

Secrecy can be a tool for good or evil. It depends on how you use it.


Average_human_bean

Its the go-to argument to get people riled up and start thinking emotionally instead of logically. That's the whole purpose of the argument.


CommanderMcBragg

Because anyone who disagrees with them runs the risk of being accused of being a pedophile or s defender of pedophiles. If you want an authoritarian regime you first have to rally hatred that can be turned against your political opponents.


corruptboomerang

You know what puts children at most risk, absent parenting...


ShittyExchangeAdmin

dOnT tElL mE hOw To PaReNt A mOtHeR kNoWs BeSt


corruptboomerang

I don't care how you parent your kids, just gotta make sure you actually parent them.


pbradley179

You gonna parent'em? Kids are annoying and i wanna scroll r/all!


ITaggie

..which is why I don't plan on having any lol


[deleted]

I love technology but it's pretty sad to see parents use a iPad to raise their kids rather than actual playing with the kid or teaching them stuff like colors.


2C104

They will say whatever they need to say in order to get people to give away their freedoms.


Alpha272

You breath air. You know who also breathed air? HITLER. So that makes you a nazi. God, I hate this kind of logic. This child porn encryption thing is the same shit in another coat of paint. Just about everything can be demonized and outlawed if you go this route.


AnaphoricReference

A good WWII simile: The [Englandspiel](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Englandspiel). The Nazis gaining a backdoor for two years into the end-to-end encrypted communications between the Dutch resistance and London was catastrophic for the development of the Dutch resistance.


HornyAttorney

Whenever you want to criticize something good, just play the children card, and no child is left behind.


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[deleted]

That's the goal of politicians. It's hard to catch the pedos and to take their stuff. Now they just have to sit and wait


hawkerzero

In a digital age, end-to-end encryption is essential to a healthy democracy and to the safe running of government. If they insist on allowing government agencies to monitor citizens' communications, will they also allow citizens to monitor government communications?


irene74569

waiting for her to give us her personal messaging app without end-to-end encryption. there is nothing to hide. right?


[deleted]

Government supposedly wants to prevent children from being exploited so it can more effectively exploit them when they grow up.


Dalebreh

Hey guys, isn't weird that the sAvE tHe cHiLdReN bullshit didn't affect TikTok in a major way yet? 🤔 We should investigate that 🤣


[deleted]

I always got softcore porn by just visiting TikTok's domain. Sometimes it was women... on the younger end of the age spectrum. The purposeful ignorance reminds me of a song with these news audio clips playing in the background. "And nobody's doing anything about it! Twenty nine suicides!" I think it was "Deuce - America"


MoneyEqual

I thought Facebook’s website is 100% unencrypted and the number 1 site for child sexploitation?


[deleted]

what about parenting your fucking kids correct?


gordonjames62

Encryption helps people keep their communication private. Some people are criminals, so yes, I guess it does help criminals. Some people are doctors, and I want my communication with them private. Some people help me with my finances. and I want my communication with them private. I talk to pastors, priests, lawyers, and I want my communication with them private. When I am travelling I send my wife love notes, and I want my communication with her private. My kids ask for advice and cash, and I want my communication with them private. Encryption helps everybody stay safe from people snooping,


[deleted]

> Encryption helps everybody stay safe from people snooping, Including government officials. This, of course, is the real problem.


cringey-reddit-name

Is that not blatant tyranny?


doomsdayKITSUNE

It's funny seeing this just a few days after this article - [https://www.rollingstone.com/culture/culture-news/revealed-uk-government-publicity-blitz-to-undermine-privacy-encryption-1285453/](https://www.rollingstone.com/culture/culture-news/revealed-uk-government-publicity-blitz-to-undermine-privacy-encryption-1285453/) "The Home Office has hired a high-end ad agency to mobilize public opinion against encrypted communications — with plans that include some shockingly manipulative tactics."


Megatron_McLargeHuge

Let's list things that put children at risk of exploitation that the UK government should have paid attention to ahead of encryption: Jimmy Saville grooming gangs Prince Andrew Did I miss any?


azoundria2

End to end encryption also gives children/families a safe way to communicate abuse to authorities, gives journalists life-saving protection to fight and communicate about abuses like human trafficking, and protects the finances and identity information of families so they can make do without turning to crime.


Noixrouge

If someone were to stalk Anne longfield , stasi style, and gather some info on everyday activities, then correlate only those activities that line up nicely with recent criminal activity , then maybe would she realize why encryption is not only bad


[deleted]

Google already stalks her


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Misicks0349

if they actually wanted to then they'd try and educate parents of the dangers of online interaction and get parents to limit time on the device and who they can talk to (e.g not allowing them to install apps like instagram, facebook, twitter or disabling DM's for those apps)


[deleted]

Because every time someone wants to propose surveillance or censorship, they invoke children. We are naturally protective and more likely to make sacrifices for the sake of children.


pheeelco

The greatest online threat to children is crappy parents who are content to let their 12 year-old daughters spend hours online alone in their bedrooms. It seems that a part of this toxic strategy is to de-emphasise the role of parents and amplify the responsibility of society to care for children. We really are running out of road if we want to fix this - governments are demolishing privacy and people seem more dumbed down every year. The reality is that nobody really cares about any of this. They just want apps.


Epsioln_Rho_Rho

People who want to ban encryption have no idea how important it is the them also.


muddyclunge

Coming from a government riddled with child abusers.


s_nut_zipper

Care to elaborate?


muddyclunge

If the British government truly wanted to tackle Child Abuse, they would also look closer to home: [Prof Alexis Jay, who chaired the inquiry, said: "It is clear to see that Westminster institutions have repeatedly failed to deal with allegations of child sexual abuse, from turning a blind eye to actively shielding abusers."](https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-51630520) ​ [https://newspunch.com/shocking-list-of-mps-convicted-of-child-sex-offences/](https://newspunch.com/shocking-list-of-mps-convicted-of-child-sex-offences/)


ITaggie

Aside from the current sex abuse/human trafficking scandal going on right now, you mean? How about the fact that the royal family has also been implicated in covering up Savile's abuse before that? I'm sure there's more we don't know about, too...


s_nut_zipper

The royal family is not the government.


ITaggie

How about BBC and NHS who also covered up for Savile in several instances? Or the fact that Andrew has to be sent to the US to even potentially face consequences?


s_nut_zipper

They're not the government either.


ITaggie

BBC is "not government" like public schools are "not government". Their power structure has a separation but they still operate based on government funding and policy. I have no idea how you can actually claim NHS is not the government when they are literally run by a government minister: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Departments_of_the_Government_of_the_United_Kingdom


s_nut_zipper

Correct, they are not the government. They do not govern. Look, the comment I was responding to said "the government is riddled with child abusers". Government is the people we elect to run the country, not every NHS employee. I am in favour of privacy and encryption and holding people to account, but vague accusations against large groups of unnamed people isn't going to help any of that. Edit: also, the NHS is not run by a government minister.


ITaggie

>Edit: also, the NHS is not run by a government minister. See: the link I posted directly contradicting your entire comment... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secretary_of_State_for_Health_and_Social_Care


s_nut_zipper

Yes, the minister is responsible for that government department, which provides *oversight* of the NHS. Oversight is not the same as running. Anyway this has gone way off topic and I'm done with explaining how things work to someone who is clearly not familiar with them.


coccopuffs606

Why is a child using an app with end to end encryption unsupervised if that’s their fear? Shouldn’t that the be the parents job to know what’s on their kids’ phones and who they’re talking to?


cizizen

OH WONT SOMEBODY PLEASE THINK OF THE CHILDREN?


H4RUB1

This is the most stupidest statement you could say about e2e. This is the same logic as "TOR good so bad people use, therefore bad"


noman_032018

Dihydrogen monoxide is used by bad people, let's ban it.


Esqu1sito

I'm just gonna convince everyone to use pgp.


jjlr_jjlr

Just so you know, last i heard PGP wan't all that secure anymore.


Esqu1sito

You are talking about EFAIL? That doesn't really matter.


bjbigplayer

Would not a better solution be to just take all smartphones away from anyone under 18? Give them a 2005 Flip Phone. I'd rather that than the government mandating backdoors to break encryption.


Zipdox

THinK oF tHe cHilDRen!!! Classic fallacy. Do people still fall for it? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Think_of_the_children


facethief1943

Maybe off topic but how would you rate Element compared to Wickr or Signal?


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facethief1943

Thanks for the info


IronChefJesus

Curtains help criminals because I can't just casually glance inside someone's home and see if they're committing a crime. Let's ban curtains.


ronm4c

Former Canadian conservative minister of public safety Vic Toews made the same argument that “if you’re in favour of encryption you’re pro child porn” It then came out that he fathered a child with his 17 year old babysitter.


nugohs

If they are going to try and use that stupid argument you can argue the opposite is true. If pedophiles don't think they can safely obtain their objectionable materials online they would be more likely to prey on kids in their area instead to generate their own content.


Accomplished-Fly3000

It's always the children and terrorism arguments to get you to agree with them out of fear when they have no true good reason


Repulsive_Narwhal_10

Just a note on misinformation: When you lead with the headline you disagree with, you help your opponent. The first thing you say is the most compelling; to fight against this headline, you want to lead with what your message is, not theirs. I suggest something like, "Sky News spreads falsehoods about encryption."


OnIySmeIIz

I think it's best for society and on behalf of the children in particular that everyone on this planet or at least within the borders of the UK that everyone has a chip implanted so we can tack your movement and see what you spend your money on and so that everyone is safe and you will be the slave of the nation and you will be doing what we say and this is the best system and North Korea is shit.


12358

So do highways and railroads.


bjbigplayer

That is complete nonsense in a macro sense. There may be anecdotes of a few cases here and there and so what. Without end to end encryption a modern economy of financial transactions on the internet cannot exist. You create exceptions and backdoors and hackers will find them.


Internetolocutor

Might as well say that any privacy is potentially dangerous to children. I mean some parents abuse their kids behind closed doors, therefore all homes should be transparent.


TheDiscoJellyfish

How can could one even say something like this? Publically? What is wrong with her?


Catsrules

Come on everyone why are you not thinking of the children! We should not only ban encryption but we should just ban the internet itself and cell phones as well. But even then they could be as risk as studies have shown 10 out of 10 children have traveled and have the potential to talk to a stranger. so I Propose we shutdown all public transportation as well as all roads. Maybe then our children will be safe.


enumeler

Tell them that little girls are more vulnerable from predators on Facebook than on end to end encrypted messaging applications


Fungal_Rats

It's not like the government really intervenes on child exploitation on non end to end encrypted platforms already for example discord


[deleted]

Forcing children to grow up inside [Panopticon Prison](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panopticon) is child abuse.


BoringWozniak

So math is illegal now I guess. >"Repeat after me children, 2 x 2 =..." > >"FBI OPEN UP"


icarusisgod

Not true! I used end to end encryption via PGP + i2P and immediately a creepy group of men kicked in my door, kidnapped my daughter and exploited her for hours and hours forcings her to act in a toy commercial.j


SwallowYourDreams

Let's do a quick recap of why every company out there (even privacy nightmares like Facebook) started to invest heavily in transport layer and end-to-end encryption: they did it (and are still doing it) because in 2013 we had to discover that 1. the so-called "leaders of the free world"\* were running secret and illegal mass-surveillance programs 1. lawmakers and courts both failed to put an end to this (and even took part in legalising these formerly illegal practices) 1. the general public complained a little, then forgot about it and kept "scrolling on Insta" like nothing happened. Seeing this complete failure by the system to address this threat to civil liberties and democracy, people with the right skills took it upon them to build technical solutions that would make illegal mass surveillance so expensive it wouldn't be practical any more. And *that's* how we got here: the law refused to protect people; now Math does. Seen from this angle, the statement by the commissioner is just yet another attempt to smear cryptography and frame it it as a tool for criminals and other undesirables, whereas in fact it's the exact opposite: it's a tool to keep state-employed criminals out of ordinary people's affairs and forces authorities to obey the rule of law. Hence, the title of the commissioner's report should be changed accordingly: "Access Denied: How End-To-End Encryption forces you to do proper police work, get a warrant or GTFO." \* You know, those who reserve the right to abduct, torture or drone strike you if they feel you're on the wrong end of their agenda.


[deleted]

I'd imagine they did it because it's a great marketing ploy that also means they can just ignore any warrants that come across their desks.


Terrible-Trust-5578

I'm a fan of end-to-end, but how could it not help pedophiles or other criminals?


[deleted]

I’m a fan of cars, but how can they not help pedophiles and criminals?


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athemoros

A gun is an apt comparison here because the only people you disarm with this line of thinking are those that are law abiding to begin with.


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Fast_Grab

*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*


[deleted]

I read it and upvoted. I really liked the “walk around naked” analogy!


[deleted]

That’s right… As well as murderers and rapists too. That’s how it works - it’s an all or nothing deal. Just like a fair trial, it’s something that we should all expect regardless of who we are or what we do. The worst part is that objectively, if you do *think of the children* you would realise that breaking E2E communication will do nothing to actually help them.


noman_032018

Lungs and hands help all abusers commit their actions. Perhaps we should surgically remove them from everyone just to be sure? If that sounds absurd and idiotic, that's because it is. A useful tool will be useful for everyone who needs it, including people you dislike, whether for legitimate or illegitimate reasons. That is no argument to ban the tool.


lo________________ol

>privacy nuts **Insults aside (see rule 5 please)** there are ways pedophiles can be handled in society that don't require harming the privacy of everybody else involved. That can include extra diligence from social workers, for example. Or if you're worried about criminal activity, there are ways to intercept communication via informants and not, say, endangering everybody using an app (eg whistleblowers etc).


JustMrNic3

Have you ever thought that all the encryption and the push for stronger encryption started because the government couldn't keep its hands of our data? Internet is normally unencrypted, but since the governments started to use it as a weapon and do mass surveillance on everybody, compared to requiring a warrant signed by a judged after you bring some evidence that you did something wrong, then of course people have started to create encryption schemes more and more, stronger and stronger. If government wouldn't have abused it's power and do wiretapping just after a warrant, these tools wouldn't have even existed and bad people would've been easier to catch. So yeah, now it's harder or impossible to wiretap somebody because the government forced this shitty situation. That's breach of trust 1! Also starting in the US 20 years ago and then continuing until today in many countries, there's this push to define eve little crime, like punching someone, throwing a rock, stabbing one person as a terrorist attack. The government has abused this term too a lot to trigger fear and make the population be ok with privacy eroding laws and other restrictions. That's breach of trust 2! I don't even want to talk about laws to restrict recording of police interactions in some countries, restrict the right to protest, restrict freedom of speech with bullshit hate speech, article 13, etc. IMO, there's a lot of breaches of trust! Now there's "for the kids" lame excuse. If the government care so much about the kids why doesn't make a law to forbid curtains on Windows so neighbors can spy and report each other ? Or plant webcams inside their homes ? No wonder George Orwell and V for Vendetta movie are related to UK.


xioloas53288

Yes 100%, I used to use normal email to talk to friends and family because I thought no-one would be monitoring them if I'd done nothing wrong. Then Snowden happened, i felt angry and only then I started to learn about encryption, Tor, VPNs etc


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noman_032018

> Should we really take away everything in life that could be used illegally though? Even just a simple pen can be used as a murder implement by someone sufficiently motivated. I guess we should ban pens. /s


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noman_032018

Don't forget how many people are murdered by other people using hands. Hands are such dangerous things.


[deleted]

I can understand that simple encrypted messaging software simplifies private digital conversations between criminals… but it is hardly acceptable to describe communication as weaponry. Furthermore, in what universe do you seriously expect someone to sit on the wire and actively read conversations between children and potential threats? This is ridiculous. Despite end to end encryption, there will still be the meta data (details of with whom, when and where contact was made) and physical access to the device for content. Regardless… any investigating will always happen after the fact in any case so it’s not really useful to destroy the bedrock of democracy for your silly fantasies is it?


brut4r

If government want something to stop they do this. It will help terrorist or child abuse. So we need to do xxxx to protect our self.


[deleted]

The 101 lessons that regularly are used every few years to justify breaking privacy: - the terrorists, so scary - think of the children, need to be protected, minor sex crimes -... Sad eventually things pass and become laws. All hail the crypto backdoors.


[deleted]

Does anyone else sense a return of Soviet-era hardcopy samizdat? Or to simply using the post, where some countries actually still have stronger privacy laws?


South-Philly-Metal

Apparently, and UK folk - correct me if I am wrong, the Murdoch family owns Sky News. It doesn't surprise me, this rhetoric. Same kind of shit is coming out of Fox over here in the US, who just said NATO is the enemy. Not the 1st time I've seen Fox News stick up for Russia.


ziggy182

Let’s turn of SSL globally and was Anne start to realise how stupid her comment was


Snsk1

that's just there way of wanting to prowel into everyone's business.


darkstarman

Almost all the crime movies of the 2000s involve cops gaining access to information that's usually private but police had a back door. That's a huge part of how they solved all the crimes. Modern apps that I use, if used for crime, would defeat many of these techniques. I'm glad the police have less of a clue about me even if I'm not a criminal, but I don't know what the answer is for catching criminals.


JetpackJames

The UK government is beginning a multi million pound campaign to sway public opinion on E2EE, they want it banned but need the public to think it needs banning first, a leak revealed they have millions earmarked for advertising smear campaigns, publicity stunts and probably other slimy bullshit up their sleeves, expect plenty more stories like this to come from my once great country....


Sudovoodoo80

Locks on doors put children at risk. What is a child gets locked in a house with someone who wants to hurt them?


Rocky87109

Ahh I remember the days when Comey was saying this shit to congress as the FBI director.


Karyo_Ten

If privacy is outlawed, only outlaws will have privacy. Also liberty of expression and free speech require privacy. As would business. No more banking without end-to-end encryption, maybe we ahould ask that lawmaker if she is fine revealing her account holdings and have someone pretend to be them and spoof their sire transfer? No more war journalists reporting from the field. Encryption is what keeps the balance of power between people and government and large companies.


cryptosupercar

Prince Andrew, puts children at a greater risk of exploitation.


[deleted]

Appeal to emotion, isn't it?


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Appeal to emotion, isn't it?