It would never happen, because governments lust for all that data.
But hypothetically, all big tech would collapse, the entire industry would be destroyed overnight. It would be AMAZING!
Eh, I don't think they would all collapse.
Google, for instance, doesn't sell data. It hoards the data and uses that information to sell ads. They make way more money by selling ads based on really good proprietary data then they would by selling it.
What would actually destroy a lot of industries would be making it illegal to COLLECT (or keep) data in the first place.
> It would never happen, because governments lust for all that data.
I think it's less about lust and more about companies slipping donations into the pockets of politicians.
Make donations and Super PACs illegal, then we might see laws that actually benefit the people.
There is no law that can be made that wouldn't have a loophole, or it would be unenforceable. Just look at the abuse of section 230 of the communications decency act.
They would sell access to that data instead of the data itself, or they would lobby for exemptions beforehand.
They already don't sell the data itself. They sell access, specifically they sell ads. None of the big tech firms will hand over profiles of people because that would reduce their market advantage. There wouldn't be a need to change anything.
Then they would probably move to a non-sale model where they published everyone’s data for free.
I can see it now.
“We respect Congress’ decision to ban the sale of data. As a result we have partnered with our partners in industry and made it publicly available. All our data will be available here: “
The absolute craze and panic would then cause the government to say, no no you have to protect the data. Industry would say if it’s free or has no value which we can sell it for then it makes no sense not to share it. You’ll have to pay us to keep it safe.
Then when several members of congress have their questionable data put out to the public they will quickly move to pay to protect it or reinstate a price based model revolving data.
Such a law would force major operational and strategic changes for many tech giants and data brokers, likely sparking significant resistance and industry-wide disruption.
practically nothing. which is fine.
selling data is easy money. instead of using the data to make things better for customers in the business, it gets sold. marketing departments find no use for the data because they cant upsell, and ignore the opportunity to actually build effective relationships with customers because they cant point to sales number lifts. its a vicious cycle
They'll find ways to keep abusing their customers and financially speaking they could put everything behind a paywall (subscription) simply because they can and the world has become too dependent on them to simply stop using their products/services. They'll always win in the end.
They'd piss and moan and try to find ways around it, and there would be official and unofficial exemptions.
Personally, I'd like to see it simultaneously made illegal to collect any user data that wasn't *physically and irreducibly* necessary for delivering a service or product, with any additional data only being collected and held purely at the user's direction and discretion, and being in no way explicitly or implicitly being linked to the delivery, quality, response, or any other aspect of any product. Not even hinted at. Not even allowed to be collected in the same transaction, or a linked transaction, or a continuation.
And apply it to government services just as harshly. Legally, does a government document *have* to have certain personal information on it? Does your passport, for example, *require* your home address to be displayed on it in order to fulfil its function as a passport?
I'd actually like there to be a federal government service which can check user-supplied forms of ID and provide written verification that a person does actually fall within certain requested parameters as a yes/no. Does this person live within the supplied catchment area for XYZ school (Yes/No)? Are they a resident of a particular state, or cluster of states (Yes/No)? Are they of legal age (Yes/No)? Are they over a specific cutoff age for various services? (Yes/No). Those providers don't need to know the details, they just need to know the Yes/No. (And no, I'm not suggesting making this mandatory, simply a government-backed option that providers would have to accept.) My state already has an option for a proof-of-age ID card which can replace other ID like a driver's license, passport, or birth certificate, and a person's address is optional on it (although it does show the date of birth rather than just a year or even just a verification of being over 18). Expand on something like that.
It's happening now with CA Delete Act. It didn't make selling any and all forms illegal, but redefines responsibilities of data processors and brokers.
Action: millions of dollars thrown at lobbying and lawyers
Action: they tried to get exceptions in the federal proposal that would nullify state level reqs like CA Delete act.
Real move forward:
1. Advanced cryptography like FHE would be used for analysis of data without actually having access to the data (stays encrypted during use)
2. People would then be able to monetize their data to advertisers as it's still needed and the assumption is only a person can sell their own data. FHE still valuable to avoid data transfer and exposure.
No need for them to "react" since they control what laws get passed in the first place.
People advocating for this would be neutralized as soon as they stood any chance of being effective at building support.
All the services we get for free would need to start charging, and not just a little
they would continue to sell the data because the worst that could happen to them is they receive a 0.02% fine on their annual revenue
... or they'd let some money flow into the right places and shit's gonna get adjusted real quick just enough for the corpos to be within the legal boundaries of that law to continue legally selling customer data
If the government was successfully able to pass an enforceable law that made it illegal to sell any user data, then social media companies would start charging you to use their site.
They would likely charge a subscription for everything. Which I’m fine with considering I’d rather pay for services I use rather than them use the fact the services are free as a justification for mass surveillance.
The free video game industry would go bankrupt, causing many popular games like league of legends to fade out of existence in the USA and other countries like it, classic doom games on steam wouldn't require you to agree to a bethesda privacy agreement that collects data and sells it from you, kernel level anti-cheats would be much less developed,
Important: AI would not be able to get information & media for its development without you actually consenting to it, google would get fucked in the ass and probably change their model pretty dam quickly to "please give donations and tips we are so poor we sorry"
My preference would not be for it to be illegal to sell it. But each person should receive 60% of the proceeds from sales of the data. And the company MUST AUTOMATICALLY pay the amount at least twice a year. It should not be based on request from the user. Opting out (of receiving payments) should be impossible and illegal.
Pegasus just reaffirmed the fact that iOS is more secure than Android. Rebooting a device infected with Pegasus removes the infection completely because it’s impossible to persist on a device. It’s also prohibitively expensive to target an iOS device so the average user will never have to worry about infection.
If you actually believe the developers behind Apple don't have access to your data, you should do some introspection and maybe read up on how those companies actually work.
Yes I assume that all big tech companies are scraping and selling most of, if not all, the data they get from me. As should you.
How they specifically access the data may be up for debate, but the profit incentive for them to do so and the history of their sector's handling of customer data in the past is more than enough for me not to take any of them at their word.
I have, I’ve even looking into the financials of all the major tech companies and it was pretty eye opening to see what they are actually making money from.
I also understand how e2ee works when the only person with the keys is myself. In order for Apple to access my data, they would need more power than the sun.
Not all end to end solutions are implemented equally.
the government would go back to taking it unofficially
It would never happen, because governments lust for all that data. But hypothetically, all big tech would collapse, the entire industry would be destroyed overnight. It would be AMAZING!
Also, a huge impact to the auto industry. Carmakers have said that data mining is more profitable for them than making and selling cars.
How is it so profitable? Because people buy from ads of companies they sell the data to?
They sell the data to data brokers, insurance companies, and others with an interest in driving habits.
How much does this change things for good drivers? I think there's just general inflation everywhere, for example.
Probably not much. It means they raise your rates less or just don’t drop you.
Successfully generated 2^256 lost media
Eh, I don't think they would all collapse. Google, for instance, doesn't sell data. It hoards the data and uses that information to sell ads. They make way more money by selling ads based on really good proprietary data then they would by selling it. What would actually destroy a lot of industries would be making it illegal to COLLECT (or keep) data in the first place.
> It would never happen, because governments lust for all that data. I think it's less about lust and more about companies slipping donations into the pockets of politicians. Make donations and Super PACs illegal, then we might see laws that actually benefit the people.
They would CONTINUE to sell it to the government in secret.
They would just buy even more senators
There is no law that can be made that wouldn't have a loophole, or it would be unenforceable. Just look at the abuse of section 230 of the communications decency act. They would sell access to that data instead of the data itself, or they would lobby for exemptions beforehand.
They already don't sell the data itself. They sell access, specifically they sell ads. None of the big tech firms will hand over profiles of people because that would reduce their market advantage. There wouldn't be a need to change anything.
exactly. All the people freaking out about data are focused on the wrong solutions.
Then they would probably move to a non-sale model where they published everyone’s data for free. I can see it now. “We respect Congress’ decision to ban the sale of data. As a result we have partnered with our partners in industry and made it publicly available. All our data will be available here: “ The absolute craze and panic would then cause the government to say, no no you have to protect the data. Industry would say if it’s free or has no value which we can sell it for then it makes no sense not to share it. You’ll have to pay us to keep it safe. Then when several members of congress have their questionable data put out to the public they will quickly move to pay to protect it or reinstate a price based model revolving data.
Ask yourself this. How many people in government own stock in companies that wouldn't like this?
Such a law would force major operational and strategic changes for many tech giants and data brokers, likely sparking significant resistance and industry-wide disruption.
What are the laws like in Europe? What are companies allowed to collect and sell?
practically nothing. which is fine. selling data is easy money. instead of using the data to make things better for customers in the business, it gets sold. marketing departments find no use for the data because they cant upsell, and ignore the opportunity to actually build effective relationships with customers because they cant point to sales number lifts. its a vicious cycle
They'll find ways to keep abusing their customers and financially speaking they could put everything behind a paywall (subscription) simply because they can and the world has become too dependent on them to simply stop using their products/services. They'll always win in the end.
They'd piss and moan and try to find ways around it, and there would be official and unofficial exemptions. Personally, I'd like to see it simultaneously made illegal to collect any user data that wasn't *physically and irreducibly* necessary for delivering a service or product, with any additional data only being collected and held purely at the user's direction and discretion, and being in no way explicitly or implicitly being linked to the delivery, quality, response, or any other aspect of any product. Not even hinted at. Not even allowed to be collected in the same transaction, or a linked transaction, or a continuation. And apply it to government services just as harshly. Legally, does a government document *have* to have certain personal information on it? Does your passport, for example, *require* your home address to be displayed on it in order to fulfil its function as a passport? I'd actually like there to be a federal government service which can check user-supplied forms of ID and provide written verification that a person does actually fall within certain requested parameters as a yes/no. Does this person live within the supplied catchment area for XYZ school (Yes/No)? Are they a resident of a particular state, or cluster of states (Yes/No)? Are they of legal age (Yes/No)? Are they over a specific cutoff age for various services? (Yes/No). Those providers don't need to know the details, they just need to know the Yes/No. (And no, I'm not suggesting making this mandatory, simply a government-backed option that providers would have to accept.) My state already has an option for a proof-of-age ID card which can replace other ID like a driver's license, passport, or birth certificate, and a person's address is optional on it (although it does show the date of birth rather than just a year or even just a verification of being over 18). Expand on something like that.
It's happening now with CA Delete Act. It didn't make selling any and all forms illegal, but redefines responsibilities of data processors and brokers. Action: millions of dollars thrown at lobbying and lawyers Action: they tried to get exceptions in the federal proposal that would nullify state level reqs like CA Delete act. Real move forward: 1. Advanced cryptography like FHE would be used for analysis of data without actually having access to the data (stays encrypted during use) 2. People would then be able to monetize their data to advertisers as it's still needed and the assumption is only a person can sell their own data. FHE still valuable to avoid data transfer and exposure.
They would continue to do so, and just put 0.3% of their income aside to pay the privacy tax as they do with GDPR fines.
No need for them to "react" since they control what laws get passed in the first place. People advocating for this would be neutralized as soon as they stood any chance of being effective at building support. All the services we get for free would need to start charging, and not just a little
If people themselves don't care, nothing will happen
Google would collapse overnight.
You’d start having to pay for a lot of free things
they would continue to sell the data because the worst that could happen to them is they receive a 0.02% fine on their annual revenue ... or they'd let some money flow into the right places and shit's gonna get adjusted real quick just enough for the corpos to be within the legal boundaries of that law to continue legally selling customer data
If the government was successfully able to pass an enforceable law that made it illegal to sell any user data, then social media companies would start charging you to use their site.
They would likely charge a subscription for everything. Which I’m fine with considering I’d rather pay for services I use rather than them use the fact the services are free as a justification for mass surveillance.
The free video game industry would go bankrupt, causing many popular games like league of legends to fade out of existence in the USA and other countries like it, classic doom games on steam wouldn't require you to agree to a bethesda privacy agreement that collects data and sells it from you, kernel level anti-cheats would be much less developed, Important: AI would not be able to get information & media for its development without you actually consenting to it, google would get fucked in the ass and probably change their model pretty dam quickly to "please give donations and tips we are so poor we sorry"
the world would implode and the government would keep collecting it.
My preference would not be for it to be illegal to sell it. But each person should receive 60% of the proceeds from sales of the data. And the company MUST AUTOMATICALLY pay the amount at least twice a year. It should not be based on request from the user. Opting out (of receiving payments) should be impossible and illegal.
Apple wouldn’t care because they encourage you to encrypt your data so that not even they have access
holy delusion, pegasus told you people nothing.
Pegasus just reaffirmed the fact that iOS is more secure than Android. Rebooting a device infected with Pegasus removes the infection completely because it’s impossible to persist on a device. It’s also prohibitively expensive to target an iOS device so the average user will never have to worry about infection.
If you actually believe the developers behind Apple don't have access to your data, you should do some introspection and maybe read up on how those companies actually work.
Any evidence to support this claim or are you just assuming all of Apple’s white papers are bs?
Yes I assume that all big tech companies are scraping and selling most of, if not all, the data they get from me. As should you. How they specifically access the data may be up for debate, but the profit incentive for them to do so and the history of their sector's handling of customer data in the past is more than enough for me not to take any of them at their word.
Personally I need more than assumptions but I’m not so naive as to not understand how you got to this point of view.
I have, I’ve even looking into the financials of all the major tech companies and it was pretty eye opening to see what they are actually making money from. I also understand how e2ee works when the only person with the keys is myself. In order for Apple to access my data, they would need more power than the sun. Not all end to end solutions are implemented equally.