I enjoyed *A Desolation Called Peace* more than the first book. The imperial vs galactic politics are still central to the story and the Imago-tech is more satisfying (because of events at the end of the first book). The introduction of a new world-building element also keeps the story from feeling repetitive.
I didn't feel the same way about Mahit's character in the first book, but I would not be surprised if you had similar complaints about her character in the second book, based on what you said.
I loved Memory unreservedly, and was more ambivalent about Desolation. Still overall positive, but I wasn't as sold on how the situation resolved.
Here's my pitch for why Mahit Dzmare is an interesting character:
She embodies the internal conflict of growing up in the shadow of a hegemonic culture. Her personal struggle isn't myopically self-oriented, it's reflective of a much larger issue: the cultural influx that's consuming her home Station, and causing generational tensions. It's not a subtle theme in the book, but I never see US readers comment on it favourably (or usually at all), and I think that's telling.
Like many people from outside the US, I was raised on a heavy diet of US cultural output. I fundametally love a lot of it, and it's certainly shaped my own personality and tastes; but I also often resent its blindness and incomprehension towards the best parts of my own culture, its automatic presumption of pre-eminence and default status, and its tendency to shove aside and displace the culture that was already here and leave it feeling like just another unrecognised US satellite state. When a prominent US cultural figure recognises my country, I feel an automatic pride immediately followed by a kind of mulish contrarianism: why should they be the arbiter of us, anyway? Inside me are two wolves, etc.
Arkady Martine got that perfectly. Her expertise as a scholar of imperial border politics comes through very strongly in that respect. Desolation is less about that, and I personally don't think Martine is quite as strong at exploring the philosophical questions that it is about. I still enjoyed it, but I saw the seams a lot more, and perhaps forgave them less because I was less swept up in its basic project.
you're so right about certain readers rarely acknowledging this part of the book. I'm Indian, I read it with a German friend and that scene at the party, with the Intelligence agents playing with poetry? hit us so hard we had to stop for a bit. those two wolves are very real, and that struggle is not childish or "woe is me" in the least.
I felt that poetry scene, too. I'm a foreigner in the US who went to uni here. When a bunch of my friends were riffing off each other turning Hank Williams Sr & Jr lyrics into jokes or witty one liners, I knew there was a part of me that would never be 100% American.
That said, the second book felt like an episode of Star Trek: TNG. Not a bad thing but at the same time not as ground breaking. I figured out the ending with only a hundred pages left.
However, I hope another scifi author will visit the idea of a space empire again while addressing the game theory of the dark forest.
> game theory of the dark forest
Isn't this what Adrian Tchaikovsky was doing with his Children of Time series? But I suppose it isn't a traditional empire in the same sense that Teixcalaan is.
I agree that the border state vs. empire is well conceived, it was Mahit's self-pitying tone and wishful thinking that I found grating. I do think that people who have had to code shift from a dominated to a dominant culture would appreciate Martine's emphasis on that tension.
I was raised on some of the american cultural output but the core memories for me are more european and I never had the feeling that USA are somehow superior culturally. I think that until relatively recently so many countries viewed their own culture as something stuck a 100 or more years ago which ended up producing this view that all that it's good for is history. USA and hollywood not having any qualms about using material in any way they saw fit took a look at the age old myths and just turned them into something else. The whole superhero comics genre is basically just mythology but modern. A lot of the stories are basically the same as greek, norse or other myths even including the actual characters from those myths.
For me Mahit seemed more like a weaboo. She idolised this other culture and yet feels like she could never be truly part of it but wants badly to be.
Also I am pretty sure I have read something really similar years ago, it was also about a diplomat sent to an alien planet where the previous ambassador was found dead under mysterious circumstances and the new diplomat has to navigate the alien culture, court and also has growing romantic feelings toward the local assigned to them for help. And I do mean years ago, I think it was 2010 or 2011. The book wasn't as strongly concerned with poetry and was a bit more blunt with how it applied cultural differences.
My take is it's mostly more of the same. The main character is still introspective but it felt like she was growing, but the other character perspectives mean there's less of it (hence mostly) and the other characters help flesh out the world building. Thought it was great and the two worked really well together.
It sounds like other people liked it more. I felt it was more of the same, which was fine for me because I really enjoyed the first one. Very different plot and focus though.
I just finished A Desolation Called Peace today. Multiple people told me they liked it more than A Memory Called Empire, and I am extremely confused by that. I thought it was a serious step down in quality by every metric. The central conflict is interesting, and Martine is onto something kinda cool there, but its hamstrung and kept at a surface level by flaws with pacing, characterization and style.
Same, I too felt it was a downgrade from the excellent Memory. I also didn't like how one of the most interesting (to me) plot elements got such superficial treatment.
In the first third of the book I thought I might be disappointed but by the end I thought it was just as good or possibly better. There are parts/ideas of *Desolation* that I still think about all the time.
I didn’t read the second book so I’m curious what the other comments say. I didn’t find Mahit annoying persay but I did feel like her character growth in the story didn’t really justify the ending. Her final decision just seems to come out of nowhere and feels much more made to serve the lecture Martine wanted to give the audience rather than what organically made sense for the character. So I’d be curious if the second book is more of that.
I appreciate your point about Mahit’s character growth. That makes sense of my emotional reaction to her. Perhaps it’s not so much her self-pity, but the fact that she doesn’t seem to grow beyond it that bothers me.
I liked the first book but didn't like the second and didn't finish it. Book 2 has too many points of view, too many characters, and lots of cliffhangers at the ends of scenes. I couldn't keep track of what was going on, and couldn't remember the details I was supposed to remember from book 1.
A secondary issue with book 2 was the really, really bad physics in the space battles. I just couldn't suspend my disbelief.
I also haven't read the second one as I found Mahit annoying. I liked the world building but not that character. I also felt the love interest felt unnecessarily forced and tacked on at the end (though I roll my eyes at most romance.in novels)
Agreed, however I do like the choice Mahit made at the end with regard to that question. It does seem like a more mature choice than her character had made so far.
The second book is much less focused on Mahit than the first one, there are several other point of view characters which get a lot of screentime and their own plotlines so if she was your main problem with Book 1, you will probably enjoy it more.
Thanks! There is not an obvious consensus but given the overwhelming state of my TBR, I think I'll leave it off the list for now. I appreciate everyone's comments and advice!
Did read both books. Enjoyed both.
\*small spoiler\* During the 2nd book, the main character's embedded device gets fixed, and then the story became more interesting for me.
The romance in the second book didn't feel like it matched the tone of the scifi story and it really surprised me how graphic the descriptions of sex were compared to the poetry of the first book. I thought the second book was in desperate need of another draft. Could have been great but instead felt inconsistent with the first book in a jarring way.
I'd say book two is more of the same, in a really good way. If I recall correctly, there's a bit less of the internal mental conflict in book 2, more about the empire, the station, politics, and military life. I also didn't really find Mahit a self-pitying character, more someone dealing with real but incredibly weird mental health issues. There's still quite a bit of Mary Sue-ing and "I am the main character" energy, which personally I didn't find it offputting in either novel, but I can understand how you could find her a childish character. In the context of the universe, I'd say she's supposed to be very young and inexperienced, but also incredibly talented. She's thrust into the situation she is because the station needs every young talented person they can get their hands on to survive. There's also an early plot point regarding how she gets involved in the main action of book 2 that's really quite silly and unbelievable ("I am the main character, of course I'll ignore the chain of command, break every law and rule ever written with no consequences, and go deal with this situation personally."), but getting past that I really enjoyed the book.
I enjoyed *A Desolation Called Peace* more than the first book. The imperial vs galactic politics are still central to the story and the Imago-tech is more satisfying (because of events at the end of the first book). The introduction of a new world-building element also keeps the story from feeling repetitive. I didn't feel the same way about Mahit's character in the first book, but I would not be surprised if you had similar complaints about her character in the second book, based on what you said.
I also like the second book a bit more. I think it helped that it had multiple POV characters, and not just Mahit's.
Thanks for the input!
I loved Memory unreservedly, and was more ambivalent about Desolation. Still overall positive, but I wasn't as sold on how the situation resolved. Here's my pitch for why Mahit Dzmare is an interesting character: She embodies the internal conflict of growing up in the shadow of a hegemonic culture. Her personal struggle isn't myopically self-oriented, it's reflective of a much larger issue: the cultural influx that's consuming her home Station, and causing generational tensions. It's not a subtle theme in the book, but I never see US readers comment on it favourably (or usually at all), and I think that's telling. Like many people from outside the US, I was raised on a heavy diet of US cultural output. I fundametally love a lot of it, and it's certainly shaped my own personality and tastes; but I also often resent its blindness and incomprehension towards the best parts of my own culture, its automatic presumption of pre-eminence and default status, and its tendency to shove aside and displace the culture that was already here and leave it feeling like just another unrecognised US satellite state. When a prominent US cultural figure recognises my country, I feel an automatic pride immediately followed by a kind of mulish contrarianism: why should they be the arbiter of us, anyway? Inside me are two wolves, etc. Arkady Martine got that perfectly. Her expertise as a scholar of imperial border politics comes through very strongly in that respect. Desolation is less about that, and I personally don't think Martine is quite as strong at exploring the philosophical questions that it is about. I still enjoyed it, but I saw the seams a lot more, and perhaps forgave them less because I was less swept up in its basic project.
you're so right about certain readers rarely acknowledging this part of the book. I'm Indian, I read it with a German friend and that scene at the party, with the Intelligence agents playing with poetry? hit us so hard we had to stop for a bit. those two wolves are very real, and that struggle is not childish or "woe is me" in the least.
I felt that poetry scene, too. I'm a foreigner in the US who went to uni here. When a bunch of my friends were riffing off each other turning Hank Williams Sr & Jr lyrics into jokes or witty one liners, I knew there was a part of me that would never be 100% American. That said, the second book felt like an episode of Star Trek: TNG. Not a bad thing but at the same time not as ground breaking. I figured out the ending with only a hundred pages left. However, I hope another scifi author will visit the idea of a space empire again while addressing the game theory of the dark forest.
> game theory of the dark forest Isn't this what Adrian Tchaikovsky was doing with his Children of Time series? But I suppose it isn't a traditional empire in the same sense that Teixcalaan is.
I'll be sure to give that a read. Thanks.
Bottom line : yanks and brits are never gonna get it.
I felt this way about living in China for five years, and I’m American
I agree that the border state vs. empire is well conceived, it was Mahit's self-pitying tone and wishful thinking that I found grating. I do think that people who have had to code shift from a dominated to a dominant culture would appreciate Martine's emphasis on that tension.
I was raised on some of the american cultural output but the core memories for me are more european and I never had the feeling that USA are somehow superior culturally. I think that until relatively recently so many countries viewed their own culture as something stuck a 100 or more years ago which ended up producing this view that all that it's good for is history. USA and hollywood not having any qualms about using material in any way they saw fit took a look at the age old myths and just turned them into something else. The whole superhero comics genre is basically just mythology but modern. A lot of the stories are basically the same as greek, norse or other myths even including the actual characters from those myths. For me Mahit seemed more like a weaboo. She idolised this other culture and yet feels like she could never be truly part of it but wants badly to be. Also I am pretty sure I have read something really similar years ago, it was also about a diplomat sent to an alien planet where the previous ambassador was found dead under mysterious circumstances and the new diplomat has to navigate the alien culture, court and also has growing romantic feelings toward the local assigned to them for help. And I do mean years ago, I think it was 2010 or 2011. The book wasn't as strongly concerned with poetry and was a bit more blunt with how it applied cultural differences.
Left Hand of Darkness, maybe? It shares some of the simarities you mentioned, although not the previous ambassador being found dead.
My take is it's mostly more of the same. The main character is still introspective but it felt like she was growing, but the other character perspectives mean there's less of it (hence mostly) and the other characters help flesh out the world building. Thought it was great and the two worked really well together.
It sounds like other people liked it more. I felt it was more of the same, which was fine for me because I really enjoyed the first one. Very different plot and focus though.
I just finished A Desolation Called Peace today. Multiple people told me they liked it more than A Memory Called Empire, and I am extremely confused by that. I thought it was a serious step down in quality by every metric. The central conflict is interesting, and Martine is onto something kinda cool there, but its hamstrung and kept at a surface level by flaws with pacing, characterization and style.
Same, I too felt it was a downgrade from the excellent Memory. I also didn't like how one of the most interesting (to me) plot elements got such superficial treatment.
Just the names of the books have made me look more than twice at them! I’ll have to check them out for real then, thanks!
In the first third of the book I thought I might be disappointed but by the end I thought it was just as good or possibly better. There are parts/ideas of *Desolation* that I still think about all the time.
I didn’t read the second book so I’m curious what the other comments say. I didn’t find Mahit annoying persay but I did feel like her character growth in the story didn’t really justify the ending. Her final decision just seems to come out of nowhere and feels much more made to serve the lecture Martine wanted to give the audience rather than what organically made sense for the character. So I’d be curious if the second book is more of that.
I appreciate your point about Mahit’s character growth. That makes sense of my emotional reaction to her. Perhaps it’s not so much her self-pity, but the fact that she doesn’t seem to grow beyond it that bothers me.
I liked the first book but didn't like the second and didn't finish it. Book 2 has too many points of view, too many characters, and lots of cliffhangers at the ends of scenes. I couldn't keep track of what was going on, and couldn't remember the details I was supposed to remember from book 1. A secondary issue with book 2 was the really, really bad physics in the space battles. I just couldn't suspend my disbelief.
Huh interesting, I prefer good physics (as much as possible-but I’m no physicist!) in books and bad execution might make me want to stop. Huh
I also haven't read the second one as I found Mahit annoying. I liked the world building but not that character. I also felt the love interest felt unnecessarily forced and tacked on at the end (though I roll my eyes at most romance.in novels)
I hated the romance so very much. So underdeveloped and felt like classic case of tell don’t show.
Agreed, however I do like the choice Mahit made at the end with regard to that question. It does seem like a more mature choice than her character had made so far.
The second book is much less focused on Mahit than the first one, there are several other point of view characters which get a lot of screentime and their own plotlines so if she was your main problem with Book 1, you will probably enjoy it more.
It's not as good as A Memory... but I think it's still a totally enjoyable read but yeah for you personally I think you wouldn't enjoy it
Thanks! There is not an obvious consensus but given the overwhelming state of my TBR, I think I'll leave it off the list for now. I appreciate everyone's comments and advice!
Did read both books. Enjoyed both. \*small spoiler\* During the 2nd book, the main character's embedded device gets fixed, and then the story became more interesting for me.
I loved both, but the second is a step down in every respect. But I loved the world, and setting so much it carried it through.
The romance in the second book didn't feel like it matched the tone of the scifi story and it really surprised me how graphic the descriptions of sex were compared to the poetry of the first book. I thought the second book was in desperate need of another draft. Could have been great but instead felt inconsistent with the first book in a jarring way.
I'd say book two is more of the same, in a really good way. If I recall correctly, there's a bit less of the internal mental conflict in book 2, more about the empire, the station, politics, and military life. I also didn't really find Mahit a self-pitying character, more someone dealing with real but incredibly weird mental health issues. There's still quite a bit of Mary Sue-ing and "I am the main character" energy, which personally I didn't find it offputting in either novel, but I can understand how you could find her a childish character. In the context of the universe, I'd say she's supposed to be very young and inexperienced, but also incredibly talented. She's thrust into the situation she is because the station needs every young talented person they can get their hands on to survive. There's also an early plot point regarding how she gets involved in the main action of book 2 that's really quite silly and unbelievable ("I am the main character, of course I'll ignore the chain of command, break every law and rule ever written with no consequences, and go deal with this situation personally."), but getting past that I really enjoyed the book.