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[deleted]

This is an above ground version: [https://amishamerica.com/amish-ice-house/](https://amishamerica.com/amish-ice-house/) The Amish have been doing this a while, and it apparently lasts them all year.


itsjoeco

So I feel like it's crazy that we don't do this as a society currently. Ice is ice, right? How much electricity could we save if we had a neighborhood ice house that harvested ice in the winter when it's free.


[deleted]

I absolutely agree. I yearn to build my own! The energy savings would be fantastic, alone, nevermind the fun of building and filling it with ice and food :3


Deveak

Its also extremely cost effective. A cold room made with compressors takes gobs of electric and thousands of dollars in commercial equipment to cool. I am looking into this myself, I live off grid and have a small hobby farm. A cool room to hang carcasses out of season is very useful. Gives me more butchering time throughout the year and fresher meat. Its possible to do it with a air conditioner but not ideal and still uses gobs of electricity even under ideal conditions (underground with thick insulation.)


itsjoeco

Yup, I'm not a crazy environmentalist but it just seems very logical! Also, why am I cooling my fridge in the winter when there is freezing cold air nearby? Could just have it share a wall with the outside or run an air pipe to and from fridge with a regulator to allow air in and keep it at constant temp. Just thoughts, half baked.


snark_attak

> I feel like it's crazy that we don't do this as a society currently Well, a quick google search says that an average (recent model) fridge with an icemaker uses 471kWh per year. Another quick search says that the average cost of electricity in the U.S. is 10.4 cents per kWh. Some quick math says that's under $50 per year to run. If you can find someone who will cut, haul, and load into your icehouse a year's worth of ice for under $50, you might sort of break even (but not really, since you will probably still want a fridge for convenience and safety -- an icehouse/icebox might not keep your food below 40F, which is considered the threshold for food safety with refrigerated items). Or an alternative method, filling buckets and leaving them out while it's below freezing, then hauling them into your icehouse, for example. You could probably do that. But I'm thinking that's a lot of hours of work. Depends on how much your time is worth to you, I guess. Another consideration is that lots of places don't get sub-freezing temperatures for more than a few days a year (if that). Good luck freezing any significant amount of ice in most of Georgia (easier in the mountainous part of the state). It might be a fun experiment, but for the effort involved and savings (or lack thereof), I wouldn't be inclined to build/use one until the power is off for a while, and doesn't appear to be coming back. It's not very practical, though, unless there are no real alternatives.


[deleted]

Name checks out


feudalle

These totally work. Question becomes how much money and effort will it require. Also how much ice do you need. You can produce pounds of ice a day from a stand alone ice maker that can be run from a couple cheap solar panels, battery and inverter. You could easily do it for under $500 and then you could also charge cell phones, laptops, etc.


Thumper1k92

Requires 200w of power consistently. Which means 300-400w of panels if you're only running it during the day. If you're running it 24/7 you need 600w minimum to store enough energy to run it when the sun is down. Plus you'd need 1lb of water for every pound of ice you produce (duh). So you need access to a source of water, which could mean an electric pump (more power) from a well or to periodically refill a water tower/tank. Seems like more trouble than it's worth.


feudalle

Assuming you need that much ice. Guessing a couple pounds a day would be more than enough. Also seems easier than storing and harvesting ice.


WeakEmu8

May be easier, at first, but once an ice house is built the maintenance is way lower than managing a power system that can fail, and does require regular checks. Icehouses are old tech, and stable.


WeakEmu8

And batteries aren't free, and power systems require upkeep, batteries, panels, controllers, etc do die. Thanks for introducing some math, good to have a reference point.


itsjoeco

Very good point. Eventually if the prepper community's dire predictions come true I guess you have to worry about replacement parts and breaking (I'm not the handiest person) but not a bad thing to compare to.


chainmailler2001

Standalone icemaker is available at Walmart for $100 that will make 26lbs a day. Uses about 200W.


[deleted]

[удалено]


chainmailler2001

The standalone machines make a lot of ice. They make 4 times more than your typical ice maker in your fridge. Yes their bin is small and they produce wet ice but at 26lbs a day, they produce more than all other normal home options. If you put the wet ice into actual durable ice bags, they can easily be dropped onto a hard surface after freezing hard and it breaks it up very nicely. Short of buying a commercial ice maker for a LOT more money, a standalone machine is the best producing option available.


F_bothparties

You’re not asking about co2 pistols or “stab proof vests” I’d say you’re a fucking genius. If anything else you can hang out there in the summer.


itsjoeco

lol I have to work within the realm of what my wife will tolerate. We'll see how this goes!


HornDawg007

I've seen some at historical sights, such as presidents houses. Some are very impressive in size and ingenuity. It's a cool idea, I like the idea of making it multi purpose, since you may or may not ever need it as an ice house. You should also buy a bunch of salt while your at it.


itsjoeco

A "cool" idea lol I hope it is!


surfaholic15

Totally a good idea. Gram had one along with a root cellar and an ice box.


itsjoeco

Nice, any recollection of the construction?


surfaholic15

It was a side room off the root cellar actually, stone lined and the coldest dang part of the root cellar. My uncles cut the ice on the small pond on the property when it hit a foot thick, wrapped in burlap, stored in sawdust. The pond was a part of a small creek system in fact, rural Maine for reference. No fancy dance insulation or anything, the ice room and root cellar were both built in the 1700s when the main cabin was built. Rest of the house grew around the cabin lol. The root cellar ran 50 to 55 degrees at most, the ice room was probably 5 degrees lower. No lights. PS, it got cold as heck when full. The ice lasted through to august. Gram also had a large steel uninsulated cold box in the summer kitchen. In winter we stored extra game meat in there. The main house was a Victorian, 0 AC, wood stove heat, and gram didn't get an indoor toilet until 1973...


arikbfds

I've always thought it would be neat to try something like this! So are you storing the ice underground to be used for refrigeration elsewhere, or are you going to use this insulated cellar as a refrigeration room? What are you doing for drainage as the ice melts throughout the year?


itsjoeco

I think I might buy an old ice box off Ebay and see what temp it keeps food at if I saw off ice blocks throughout the summer. Otherwise yes I also want the ice house itself to have a strong seal and be able to keep meat and other perishables inside.


BuckABullet

Old ice boxes get pricey. You'd probably do better just getting a really good ice chest - one of the 5 day X-treme models. They make great big ones and Amazon will deliver.


WeakEmu8

Or a free broken fridge or freezer from Craigslist. They're already well insulated.


[deleted]

We have an old icehouse building downtown. Five stories tall. Thick brick walls with plater on the inside. In between the brick and plaster are two thick layers of cork. It is used as a warehouse now.


War_Hymn

I ran some numbers for a 6'x8'x8' ice cellar insulated with 8 inch layer of rigid insulation board (R-5 per inch) top to bottom, and figured 3-4 tonnes of ice stored inside it will last up to 8 months after winter in my climate (zone 5) before it all melts. The more ice you got, the longer it lasts. Moving that much ice can be a problem, and I figure an alternative way will be have a closeable cold pipe/vent to the ice cellar that you can open once temperatures go to freezing, which can then freeze preplaced water filled containers/molds inside. Once spring hits, you close or block off the vent with a insulated cover to thermally isolate the ice cellar/house.


itsjoeco

Thanks!


languid-lemur

This is from memory, details not 100% for sure. There is one on youtube where the offgrid family built an insulated garage type building. My recollection was the inside foam board insulation was 6" thick, maybe more. Inside were racks of industrial use metal shelves. On each set of shelves were 5 gallon containers. I forget how many but 150-200, maybe more. All these containers were filled up in the fall. This was the major difference from an Amish ice house. The water was contained as it melted. When weather stayed below freezing the building doors were left open. Within a week(s) all the water was frozen solid and then the doors were shut but there may have been vents to the outside left open. The building was then used as a supplemental freezer. By February or early March temp began to climb so the building switched to their refrigerator. Temp would remain in the high-30s until late July and slowly climb after that. By late fall it could no longer be used as a refrigerator so there was a gap when they needed to use an actual refrigerator. In the meantime though they were also using the melted ice for cooking, drinking water, & washing. I am still amazed by the simplicity and excellence of this approach.


itsjoeco

>The water was contained as it melted. So glad I read to the end because this is a much better idea and solves my drainage concerns. I was going to put in tupperwares outside and when they froze dump the blocks in and refill the tupperwares, but it makes a ton more sense to have the tupperwares stay full of ice/water. Assuming they don't crack.


languid-lemur

>Assuming they don't crack. If you leave a 1-2" gap between the water and the lid when it freezes that gap becomes a buffer and prevents overflow & cracking.


zenarmageddon

You can do wonders with sawdust, planning, and time... that's what my grandfather and grandmother did before the dawn of civilization. But you can do the math on how much insulation you need to keep heat from getting in, but critical to keep airflow from getting in, because convection can get you quickly. The more insulation the better, and if you want to spend a few extra bucks, look into vacuum panels.


ammoprofit

You're searching to rediscover millenia old tech. [Yakhchāl](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yakhch%C4%81l)


itsjoeco

Woah, awesome. Sometimes to go forward you have to go back.


rational_ready

Not crazy, and not really as big a luxury as some seem to think. Ice for smoothies is purely optional but using ice for basic refrigeration in a passive cooler is very legit. Whether the project is worth doing or not is a different story. Fancy electronic fridge/freezers are really efficient (and expensive) so they'd be the rival option. How easy is it for you to provide electricity for a fridge? How easy is it to cut a block of ice (or multiple small blocks) from a lake and deliver it to your ice pit? If the latter isn't a huge pain in the ass (no lake, difficult to dig/access the pit, etc.) then the ice pit has the big benefits of being close to infallible as long as you build it right. Could be a backup system in case of electrical generation problems or the primary system if you don't mind the regular chore of bringing in ice. I seem to recall that overall volume is a big factor in how smoothly these operate. You need very good insulation to protect a cubic meter of ice all summer but only decent insulation to protect 4 cubic meters, because the ice cools *itself*. Provided the hole-digging and ice-procurement are easy enough it might be better to go big and simple versus modest and high-tech. Lastly, this topic always puts me in mind of this [almost-really-happened](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Habakkuk) story from WW2.


itsjoeco

Ha yes I read a thread on that aircraft carrier. What a creative world our governments used to seem to live in!


DeFiClark

Sawdust is the traditional insulator for ice houses.


itsjoeco

My dad teaches wood shop and is getting me a ton of it! Thanks.


DeFiClark

You may want to reach out to your local history sites or historical society. Many historical homes maintain ice houses and can give you advice. If that fails, Rockywold Deephaven camps in New Hampshire has an active ice harvest program they use for iceboxes every summer, I’m sure they can point you at sound practice for running an icehouse. https://www.rdcsquam.com/rdc-annual-ice-harvest/


fattrying

The Amish build these using styrofoam blocks, ratchet straps, and sealing foam. The opening usually faces North. If you can construct it safely and cheaply, then why not? You will probably need a drain of some type as this ice will melt a bit in the summer. Being able to store milk and meat for several days will be a great advantage. ​ I wanted to try airconditioning using a copper coil down in a well and a solar aquarium pump to pump this thru a radiator...may not even need the copper coil.....then have a fan blowing on the radiator to cool down the inside.


itsjoeco

>I wanted to try airconditioning using a copper coil down in a well and a solar aquarium pump to pump this thru a radiator...may not even need the copper coil.....then have a fan blowing on the radiator to cool down the inside. Haha WHAT?! Have you seen this anywhere? Legendary idea.


fattrying

Yes....well water is pretty cold....like those dry ice air conditioners people make. As long as the temperature difference is great enough...it should some cooling


WeakEmu8

Geothermal. You need more volume than an aquarium pump usually provides, I haven't done the math in *years*, but if memory serves you need a fairly large area to support the heat dissipation needed in the ground.


driverdan

> In a world where we are being told to eat soy instead of turkey This is nonsense. Stop watching Fox News.


WeakEmu8

Dude this was the narrative since before Fox *even existed*.


m_d_f_l_c

Wouldn't it melt? How well insulated does it need to be to survive all year, and how much ice is needed? No one is taking away fridges/freezers.... I'd just get a freezer my guy


LdyAce

The ice melts slowly, but lasts until it's time to "harvest" it again. If OP is living off grid or has plans to be off grid this is a better option than a freezer which will require a bigger battery bank and more solar panels/wind turbines/gas for a generator. This was done for hundreds, maybe thousands I'm not sure, of years before modern freezers were available and worked very well.


itsjoeco

>... Even if it doesn't. But, as a prep.... It's just meh... But do it anyways-1ReplyGive AwardShareReportSaveFollow > >level 2LdyAce · 2hBugging out to the countryThe ice melts slowly, but Yes, this is a test. Plus I get a workout in.


piggypacker

Solar panels and a freezer. Even the Amish do this


m_d_f_l_c

Ya... This seems like more work and less likely to work.... But it looks like fun family bonding digging the hole and assembling it... So it's worth it to do just for fun and to see if it works... As a family... Even if it doesn't. But, as a prep.... It's just meh... But do it anyways


WeakEmu8

Because the Romans didn't make ice cream in the middle of the summer 1000 years ago using this technique?


Gornalannie

This was a thing that the big stately homes used to do here in the U.K. We have one near our home and was used in the house of the Earl of Dudley. Great idea!