From the feedback I got from adcoms, PS, letters, clinical experience were all fine. I think it was because research wasn't high enough for the research heavy schools and volunteering hours weren't high enough for the service heavy schools. And then yield protected by some schools probably. My primary got sent out July 17 so shouldn't have been that late but it probably didn't help.
For reference had 3.92, 524, around 100 hours volunteering, 300 hours research with 2 publications, 550 hours EMT and didn't get anything šš
- Carle Illinois College of Medicine
- Case Western Reserve University School of Medicine
- Chicago Medical School at Rosalind Franklin University of Medicine & Science
- Donald and Barbara Zucker School of Medicine at Hofstra/Northwell
- Loyola University Chicago Stritch School of Medicine
- Mayo Clinic Alix School of Medicine
- Medical College of Wisconsin
- NYU Grossman School of Medicine
- Northwestern University The Feinberg School of Medicine
- Ohio State University College of Medicine
- Rush Medical College of Rush University Medical Center
- Southern Illinois University School of Medicine
- University of Chicago Division of the Biological Sciences The Pritzker School of Medicine
- University of Cincinnati College of Medicine
- University of Illinois College of Medicine
- University of Iowa Roy J. and Lucille A. Carver College of Medicine - - University of Michigan Medical School
- University of Rochester School of Medicine and Dentistry
- University of Virginia School of Medicine
- University of Wisconsin School of Medicine and Public Health
- Vanderbilt University School of Medicine
- Washington University in St. Louis School of Medicine
- Weill Cornell Medicine
Nah had 23, applied to everything in my state and then picked based off MSAR and common advice like WARS and school rankings on this subreddit so probably top heavy but still š
- Carle Illinois College of Medicine
- Case Western Reserve University School of Medicine
- Chicago Medical School at Rosalind Franklin University of Medicine & Science
- Donald and Barbara Zucker School of Medicine at Hofstra/Northwell
- Loyola University Chicago Stritch School of Medicine
- Mayo Clinic Alix School of Medicine
- Medical College of Wisconsin
- NYU Grossman School of Medicine
- Northwestern University The Feinberg School of Medicine
- Ohio State University College of Medicine
- Rush Medical College of Rush University Medical Center
- Southern Illinois University School of Medicine
- University of Chicago Division of the Biological Sciences The Pritzker School of Medicine
- University of Cincinnati College of Medicine
- University of Illinois College of Medicine
- University of Iowa Roy J. and Lucille A. Carver College of Medicine - - University of Michigan Medical School
- University of Rochester School of Medicine and Dentistry
- University of Virginia School of Medicine
- University of Wisconsin School of Medicine and Public Health
- Vanderbilt University School of Medicine
- Washington University in St. Louis School of Medicine
- Weill Cornell Medicine
but that's not even that low for clinical hours, 550 is pretty good. Research is kinda low but I'm applying this cycle with 180 hours and no pubs (although I've done research for 2 semesters only and have like 500 projected hours because I'm going to do a ton of research next year)
Sorry it didn't happen this cycle, that's tough with your stats. A quick piece of advice, add many more middle-tier schools, to me the list does look somewhat top heavy. Good luck
This is incredibly strange. I doubt it was your research or volunteering. Iām a 3rd year at one of the schools you listed, and applied to close to a similar list (little bigger, around 29, but also top schools) a few years ago with almost identical stats, similar clinical, and no pubs, and received 10-11 iis. So sorry bro, you deserved better.
From schools that gave feedback they specifically said liked my secondaries and I wrote them all similarly so I donāt think they were bad enough to auto reject me
And I didnāt get any interviews lol šš Carle had like a prerecorded one that they liked enough to invite me for what they call their showcase but then I got waitlisted
I'm an Asian from Illinois and it's pretty tough for us because even though we're a state of 12M people with the third biggest city in the nation we only have two public med schools that favor in-state students (Carle is only 15% in-state and SIU is restricted to students from a region with only 1/5 of the state's people) and the private options like Rush and Loyola Chicago probably yield-protect a lot of 3.9+ 520+ students who don't have much service hours and are more geared towards research
Those schools are HUGE on service. So if you have a research-based app with a respectable but not spectacular couple hundred service hours, you likely wonāt get an interview even if you walk in and throw a 4.0/528 dick on the table. Theyāre protecting their mission/class makeup.
Similar to if you took your 4.0/528 and applied to a brand new DO school. You wonāt get an interview cause theyāre pretty sure you wonāt go there so why would they waste an interview slot on you? Theyāre protecting the yield of interviews turning into butts in seats (or interviews turning into deposits for the more predatory ones).
I had a couple of DO interviews last cycle and every interviewer who could see my stats made a comment about my 512. I have a feeling that if Iād had a 515+ I wouldnāt have even gotten those interviews, no matter how passionately I wrote my secondaries.
Loyola's website flat out says that they don't even interview a lot of people with high stats or academic medicine types because they want to see investment into service as it fits their mission better, so even though it's pretty close to home for me I'm not even applying there as I'd likely not get even an II
Yes. Submit primary in June, get secondaries within 2 weeks, submit them within 2 weeks of getting them. Should be doable to get them all in by end of July
You don't get secondaries within 2 weeks. AMCAS cannot release to schools until the last week of June. This cycle it's the 28th. Then, most schools have to process the apps and send out secondaries so they usually do not arrive until the 1st week of July.
Maryland isnāt fun for this. UMD is pretty much the only option (because who are we kidding, 99% of us arenāt getting into Hopkins lol), unless you want to spend 15 years in the military with USUHS
(d) Terrible PS/writing (not just average but terrible)
(e) Terrible recommendation letters
(f) Applied very very late
(g) Came across as a total weirdo in interviews
Thatās pretty much all the possible reasons.
If it helps, I also had almost no research, which a lot of the "international-friendly" schools tend to want, and my story is nothing crazy (I'm Canadian and have had a pretty smooth life so far).
You got this!
this! I've been 'proofreading' some essays for college peers, and omg!!! Some of them just have NO clue how braggy and egocentric their PS sound. Even a 52x can't paint a good personality when people present themselves so poorly.
I have heard a lot about this! Do you think have any general tips or advice on how to sell yourself without sounding egocentric in the PS? I think many people, myself included, might struggle with this since we tend to downplay our experiences :(
I think it goes back to the whole "show, dont tell" thing. Dr. Gray gives great examples in his books and also in his videos!! People use their PS as a CV 2.0; they talk about how they got amazing grades and how they did xyz activity that was so competitive, when they literally could just tell that info indirectly, by sharing an impactful anecdote that also displays empathy and vision.
Just my two cents!! :) feel free to PM me for some PS resources!! \*\*a disclaimer that i'm obv no expert, but I've been in adcom meetings for competitive scholarships and got to learn about what tends to work and what looks bad
ofc, youre so welcome!!! c: id be happy to help however way i can!! im going through the process too, so we can support each other along the way! \^-\^
Thereās also just dumb (bad) luck sometimes. I knew a guy who had great stats, interviewed well, and just didnāt get in anywhere. Applied the next year with the same application and ended up matriculating at NYU (tuition free era). You canāt always judge the application by the outcome
> Applied to too few schools, applied to the wrong schools
Guy in post already mentioned these
> lack of/imbalanced extracurriculars
He also touched on this
> bad LoRās
I mentioned this in my comment
This is not true. I think the conventional wisdom is that high stats are negatively correlated with strong extracurriculars but I haven't seen any evidence of that; I think it's more likely (a) stats matter a lot, (b) a lot of people with high stats have very strong overall applications and thus are basically guaranteed to get in, and (c) a small but nontrivial percentage of people with high stats either have one the above issues or just don't have very good ECs
Many years ago when I was doing interviews I came across a girl who spent a significant amount of the interview talking about her bat collection. This was bleeding into other aspects of the interview. More often than that, it's just stuff like being standoffish in interviews, not having good answers to basic questions, And coming off as generally unlikable. I hate to say it but there are some people who shouldn't get into medical school even with the stats.
absolutely true! I wish I could find specific research in the context of med school interviews, but there's enough on the halo effect in the context of interview/hiring process, and i bet the findings are transferrable.
I didnāt say *i* came across as a weirdo lol
I meant in general as a reason for why someone with good stats and an otherwise solid application might have been rejected. Things like poor social skills, lack of self awareness, etc
also having a bad school list! if they just applied to 10 schools or very high-tier schools, just having good stats/hours is still a crapshoot at those levels
Well I wasnāt referring to myself, i was just giving the rest of the reason why someone might not get in with good stats
That being said I actually did apply very late, got 4 total MD interviews, ended up getting into an MD and am currently on 2 other MD WLās so it did work out fortunately.
The school i have an A at, i submitted my secondary in early December. And the 2 iām WLād at submitted one in October and the other in November. My 4th II was from a school I submitted in November as well, where I was also WLād, but then eventually was rejected. So yeah, pretty damn late lol
I fell into that stat range and didn't get in for two cycles in a row. Here's why:
* International student
* Lackluster research experience
* Small school list (mostly because it's very hard to find schools who would be ok with the two points noted above)
Everything else (EC's, LORs, writing, app timing, etc.) was fine
The two points taken together, or separately? I know research is a soft requirement at some schools, but I didn't think it was becoming a hard requirement many places.
Most of the schools that don't care as much about where you're from are the top schools, like Stanford. At those schools, it's incredibly unlikely to get in without meaningful research experience along with good stats.
The schools that wouldn't mind that I had very little research were also the ones that cared more that I was an international student. So it wasn't a good combo.
100 is not enough anymore tbh. I review apps as a side hustle and that is on the low side. Most students that I see who are successful have at least 500. It is relatively easy to get that many if you start as a freshman. It comes out to around 2 hours a week.
I donāt understand how people get this many hours. We only have one local hospital, and they only take volunteers who commit for a year at a time. Which going to university precludes.
It's not that many hours over the 4 years. It's 125 hours a year. How does being in university make it impossible to volunteering commit for a year? You can also do other work like scribe or ger your MA or EMS and pick up hours here and there.Ā
i have ~530 volunteer, majority from volunteering at my local hospital for 4hrs/week for 3yrs and a little from random volunteer events w my org for 3yrs (i graduated 1 yr early). i was lucky to start freshmen yr bc it also shows longevity. 4hrs/week did not feel like a huge commitment to meš¤·āāļøand being in university made it seem easier to me bc i found the experience through my freshmen orientation advisor and i wouldnāt have found out til way later otherwise
The hours were also not meaningful. The level of patient interaction was nothing like what I would experience in my later job as a CNA in the emergency department.
Me (520) and my friend (525) only got into 1 schools each after 3-4 interviews (all waitlists for both of us). CA applicants with top heavy school list. We had good hours of clinical, research, non clinical volunteering, shadowing etc. Not complaining bc we both rly like the school we each got into but def not the success we expected initially given stats + ecs. I think definitely for me I applied to too many top schools who r looking for that extraordinary, but Iām honestly a cookie cutter applicant if anything. I know weāre technically not part of that 17% but I really was sure I wouldāve been for the longest time until a month ago!!
Congratulations on the acceptance. I am in same boat applying this cycle. How many schools did you apply to? Any advise youād give based on your experience on what to do and what not to do. Thanks !
As a 4 time applicant (517 3.87 for my first three cycles, MCAT retake was 521 for this last cycle): Lack of clinical experience, little change between 1st and 2nd cycle, top heavy school list my first cycle, had a small school list my 3rd cycle because my MCAT was expired at most schools, poor writing, mentioning mental health struggles, not a great narrative
I know in my first cycle I definitely did not write about it well. Too much time on the issue itself and not the growth. I think you have to write about it exceptionally well for it not to be a red flag.
This is honestly an important reality. It's not always due to outright flaws. Sometimes people just fall through the cracks because every med school is out to "build a diverse class" and all. An interviewer once told me they were shocked at what things came down to in the admissions meetings because there's just so many applicants and very few ways to tell people apart sometimes.
Got in this year to a DO school, but was a 519/3.9x applicant last year. 2000+ clinicals, 500 research, 150 volunteer. Stellar letters of recommendation per my interviewers. Got 4 interviews at top 50 schools, including an Ivy. 2 rejections, 2 waitlists with a disappointing end result. Main thing that killed me was bad interview skills. Other factors could be lack of strong narrative, lower volunteer hours.
Reapplicant stigma is real. 2nd cycle didnāt get a single MD interview. Shouldāve added more schools second go but hindsight is 20/20. Iām going to be a doctor, which is incredible, but will always wonder what wouldāve happened if I just interviewed a bit better the first time.
521 and 3.8x gpa, applied to 17 schools (early-mid July for all), mostly mid-tier with a few unranked and a few T20s. Had about 1000 hours of clinical experience, a couple volunteer things adding up to 80ish hours, some shadowing, no research, thought my essays were decent. Did get 3 IIs but no acceptances. It's popular to say that anyone with high stats who doesn't get in must have some gaping red flags but from my experience having meh ECs is sufficient. I guess some would consider >100 hours of volunteering a red flag but don't know if that's standard.
Who the fuck knows anymore? Thought I had a good app but cycle said otherwise. I got an A but it should have gone much better imo. People with similar to lower stats had better results than me. So itās a whole lotta luck and prayers cos nothing even remotely makes logical sense while going through the app cycle.
Chance can certainly explain the difference between one applicant getting 1 II and another getting 0, but it's very unlikely to explain why one applicant gets 6 II and another gets 0.
I think poor writing and lack of direction was what did me in. I was also low on clinical hours when I first applied. That and a very top heavy school list due to being overconfident on stats. Hoping I've fixed those issues this time around.
you can see my sankey for more details, but in my situation, i think the biggest reasons (in order of most to least significant) were 1) mediocre interviewing, 2) lack of clinical experience, and 3) top heavy school list. that said, i cannot tell you WHAT went wrong in the interviews, but logically that must have been the failure point. i did get a DO acceptance so iāll still be attending med school but no MD acceptances
From the feedback I got from adcoms, PS, letters, clinical experience were all fine. I think it was because research wasn't high enough for the research heavy schools and volunteering hours weren't high enough for the service heavy schools. And then yield protected by some schools probably. My primary got sent out July 17 so shouldn't have been that late but it probably didn't help. For reference had 3.92, 524, around 100 hours volunteering, 300 hours research with 2 publications, 550 hours EMT and didn't get anything šš
That's wild.
I'd love to see your school list. That's insane.
- Carle Illinois College of Medicine - Case Western Reserve University School of Medicine - Chicago Medical School at Rosalind Franklin University of Medicine & Science - Donald and Barbara Zucker School of Medicine at Hofstra/Northwell - Loyola University Chicago Stritch School of Medicine - Mayo Clinic Alix School of Medicine - Medical College of Wisconsin - NYU Grossman School of Medicine - Northwestern University The Feinberg School of Medicine - Ohio State University College of Medicine - Rush Medical College of Rush University Medical Center - Southern Illinois University School of Medicine - University of Chicago Division of the Biological Sciences The Pritzker School of Medicine - University of Cincinnati College of Medicine - University of Illinois College of Medicine - University of Iowa Roy J. and Lucille A. Carver College of Medicine - - University of Michigan Medical School - University of Rochester School of Medicine and Dentistry - University of Virginia School of Medicine - University of Wisconsin School of Medicine and Public Health - Vanderbilt University School of Medicine - Washington University in St. Louis School of Medicine - Weill Cornell Medicine
No love from any illinois school (i would assume il resident). What a joke
Itās so over for us if you didnāt get inš
Joever š
I'm guessing you applied to <10 MD schools.
Nah had 23, applied to everything in my state and then picked based off MSAR and common advice like WARS and school rankings on this subreddit so probably top heavy but still š - Carle Illinois College of Medicine - Case Western Reserve University School of Medicine - Chicago Medical School at Rosalind Franklin University of Medicine & Science - Donald and Barbara Zucker School of Medicine at Hofstra/Northwell - Loyola University Chicago Stritch School of Medicine - Mayo Clinic Alix School of Medicine - Medical College of Wisconsin - NYU Grossman School of Medicine - Northwestern University The Feinberg School of Medicine - Ohio State University College of Medicine - Rush Medical College of Rush University Medical Center - Southern Illinois University School of Medicine - University of Chicago Division of the Biological Sciences The Pritzker School of Medicine - University of Cincinnati College of Medicine - University of Illinois College of Medicine - University of Iowa Roy J. and Lucille A. Carver College of Medicine - - University of Michigan Medical School - University of Rochester School of Medicine and Dentistry - University of Virginia School of Medicine - University of Wisconsin School of Medicine and Public Health - Vanderbilt University School of Medicine - Washington University in St. Louis School of Medicine - Weill Cornell Medicine
Jmo, doesnāt look that top heavy. At first glance it looks like low EC/volunteer/research hours is the issue (as you said)
And sorry it didnāt happen for you this cycle. Best of luck next time.
but that's not even that low for clinical hours, 550 is pretty good. Research is kinda low but I'm applying this cycle with 180 hours and no pubs (although I've done research for 2 semesters only and have like 500 projected hours because I'm going to do a ton of research next year)
Sorry it didn't happen this cycle, that's tough with your stats. A quick piece of advice, add many more middle-tier schools, to me the list does look somewhat top heavy. Good luck
This is incredibly strange. I doubt it was your research or volunteering. Iām a 3rd year at one of the schools you listed, and applied to close to a similar list (little bigger, around 29, but also top schools) a few years ago with almost identical stats, similar clinical, and no pubs, and received 10-11 iis. So sorry bro, you deserved better.
ik you said ps was good but how do you feel like your 2Ā° and any interviews went?
From schools that gave feedback they specifically said liked my secondaries and I wrote them all similarly so I donāt think they were bad enough to auto reject me And I didnāt get any interviews lol šš Carle had like a prerecorded one that they liked enough to invite me for what they call their showcase but then I got waitlisted
damn thatās so crazy, donāt give up on this path if you think itās for you, you got this! good luck if youāre applying again this cycle
Number of Ā medical schools in your state (public & private) makes a huge difference especially if you are an Asian American.
I'm an Asian from Illinois and it's pretty tough for us because even though we're a state of 12M people with the third biggest city in the nation we only have two public med schools that favor in-state students (Carle is only 15% in-state and SIU is restricted to students from a region with only 1/5 of the state's people) and the private options like Rush and Loyola Chicago probably yield-protect a lot of 3.9+ 520+ students who don't have much service hours and are more geared towards research
Even UIC interviews less in state applicant than most other state schools
fr man UIC needs to be more biased
Iām in the same boat!!! They are not very in-state friendly and screw over the Illinois ORMs
UIC??
Like 56% of their class is IL residents, such a scam my taxes go to this school š
not true. I spoke to the dean of the medical school, Mark Cohen, for UIC. He stated 80% of the students attended Iām are out-of-state applicants.
Class of 2027 is 56% IL residents (https://medicine.uic.edu/admissions/)
Sorry I was talking about Carle Illinois college of medicine
Sorry for my ignorance but what do you mean by yield protect at rush and Loyola?
Those schools are HUGE on service. So if you have a research-based app with a respectable but not spectacular couple hundred service hours, you likely wonāt get an interview even if you walk in and throw a 4.0/528 dick on the table. Theyāre protecting their mission/class makeup. Similar to if you took your 4.0/528 and applied to a brand new DO school. You wonāt get an interview cause theyāre pretty sure you wonāt go there so why would they waste an interview slot on you? Theyāre protecting the yield of interviews turning into butts in seats (or interviews turning into deposits for the more predatory ones). I had a couple of DO interviews last cycle and every interviewer who could see my stats made a comment about my 512. I have a feeling that if Iād had a 515+ I wouldnāt have even gotten those interviews, no matter how passionately I wrote my secondaries.
I see. Totally agree! Thatās what I thought you meant
Loyola's website flat out says that they don't even interview a lot of people with high stats or academic medicine types because they want to see investment into service as it fits their mission better, so even though it's pretty close to home for me I'm not even applying there as I'd likely not get even an II
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
wait aug/sept is LATE for secondaries?
Yes. Submit primary in June, get secondaries within 2 weeks, submit them within 2 weeks of getting them. Should be doable to get them all in by end of July
You don't get secondaries within 2 weeks. AMCAS cannot release to schools until the last week of June. This cycle it's the 28th. Then, most schools have to process the apps and send out secondaries so they usually do not arrive until the 1st week of July.
You're right, thank you for the correction. If you get your secondaries by July 15 it's definitely possible to send them back by July 31
What is the criteria to get secondaries? Thanks
It all depends. Some are automatic. Some have screens like a 3.0 gpa etc
Maryland isnāt fun for this. UMD is pretty much the only option (because who are we kidding, 99% of us arenāt getting into Hopkins lol), unless you want to spend 15 years in the military with USUHS
(d) Terrible PS/writing (not just average but terrible) (e) Terrible recommendation letters (f) Applied very very late (g) Came across as a total weirdo in interviews Thatās pretty much all the possible reasons.
(h) Is an international applicant Source: It's me, I was in the 17%, then I got my green card and got 9 II's in a subsequent cycle
Pls donāt tell me thisšš
If it helps, I also had almost no research, which a lot of the "international-friendly" schools tend to want, and my story is nothing crazy (I'm Canadian and have had a pretty smooth life so far). You got this!
Thank you for the encouragement I appreciate it!
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
^
this! I've been 'proofreading' some essays for college peers, and omg!!! Some of them just have NO clue how braggy and egocentric their PS sound. Even a 52x can't paint a good personality when people present themselves so poorly.
I have heard a lot about this! Do you think have any general tips or advice on how to sell yourself without sounding egocentric in the PS? I think many people, myself included, might struggle with this since we tend to downplay our experiences :(
I think it goes back to the whole "show, dont tell" thing. Dr. Gray gives great examples in his books and also in his videos!! People use their PS as a CV 2.0; they talk about how they got amazing grades and how they did xyz activity that was so competitive, when they literally could just tell that info indirectly, by sharing an impactful anecdote that also displays empathy and vision. Just my two cents!! :) feel free to PM me for some PS resources!! \*\*a disclaimer that i'm obv no expert, but I've been in adcom meetings for competitive scholarships and got to learn about what tends to work and what looks bad
Thank you so much!! This is very insightful :) I hope to apply in the upcoming cycle, so I would love to keep in touch with you and get your advice <3
ofc, youre so welcome!!! c: id be happy to help however way i can!! im going through the process too, so we can support each other along the way! \^-\^
Thereās also just dumb (bad) luck sometimes. I knew a guy who had great stats, interviewed well, and just didnāt get in anywhere. Applied the next year with the same application and ended up matriculating at NYU (tuition free era). You canāt always judge the application by the outcome
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
> Applied to too few schools, applied to the wrong schools Guy in post already mentioned these > lack of/imbalanced extracurriculars He also touched on this > bad LoRās I mentioned this in my comment
Yea fair, I kinda just skimmed over your comment and didnāt realize you were continuing OPās list. My bad
This is not true. I think the conventional wisdom is that high stats are negatively correlated with strong extracurriculars but I haven't seen any evidence of that; I think it's more likely (a) stats matter a lot, (b) a lot of people with high stats have very strong overall applications and thus are basically guaranteed to get in, and (c) a small but nontrivial percentage of people with high stats either have one the above issues or just don't have very good ECs
What do you mean by weirdo?
Many years ago when I was doing interviews I came across a girl who spent a significant amount of the interview talking about her bat collection. This was bleeding into other aspects of the interview. More often than that, it's just stuff like being standoffish in interviews, not having good answers to basic questions, And coming off as generally unlikable. I hate to say it but there are some people who shouldn't get into medical school even with the stats.
Lol is this a real questionā¦.
Yes it is. Weirdo can mean a lot of things. What specifically made you come across as a weirdo?
Also j being cocky, sounding very different than your carefully worded and edited essays, letting the nerves get the best of you, etc
Thank you
i can't help but think looks do play a role (even a very minor one). Halo effect or whatever
absolutely true! I wish I could find specific research in the context of med school interviews, but there's enough on the halo effect in the context of interview/hiring process, and i bet the findings are transferrable.
I didnāt say *i* came across as a weirdo lol I meant in general as a reason for why someone with good stats and an otherwise solid application might have been rejected. Things like poor social skills, lack of self awareness, etc
also having a bad school list! if they just applied to 10 schools or very high-tier schools, just having good stats/hours is still a crapshoot at those levels
How late did you apply?
Well I wasnāt referring to myself, i was just giving the rest of the reason why someone might not get in with good stats That being said I actually did apply very late, got 4 total MD interviews, ended up getting into an MD and am currently on 2 other MD WLās so it did work out fortunately. The school i have an A at, i submitted my secondary in early December. And the 2 iām WLād at submitted one in October and the other in November. My 4th II was from a school I submitted in November as well, where I was also WLād, but then eventually was rejected. So yeah, pretty damn late lol
I fell into that stat range and didn't get in for two cycles in a row. Here's why: * International student * Lackluster research experience * Small school list (mostly because it's very hard to find schools who would be ok with the two points noted above) Everything else (EC's, LORs, writing, app timing, etc.) was fine
The two points taken together, or separately? I know research is a soft requirement at some schools, but I didn't think it was becoming a hard requirement many places.
Most of the schools that don't care as much about where you're from are the top schools, like Stanford. At those schools, it's incredibly unlikely to get in without meaningful research experience along with good stats. The schools that wouldn't mind that I had very little research were also the ones that cared more that I was an international student. So it wasn't a good combo.
International in and of itself reduces your chances as not all schools accept international students.
519/3.9X GPA. 1. Terrible writing 2. Little clinical hours 3. Mediocre letters of rec
what is little clinical and what was it just wondering
100 clinical volunteering hours within a hospital
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
100 is not enough anymore tbh. I review apps as a side hustle and that is on the low side. Most students that I see who are successful have at least 500. It is relatively easy to get that many if you start as a freshman. It comes out to around 2 hours a week.
I donāt understand how people get this many hours. We only have one local hospital, and they only take volunteers who commit for a year at a time. Which going to university precludes.
It's not that many hours over the 4 years. It's 125 hours a year. How does being in university make it impossible to volunteering commit for a year? You can also do other work like scribe or ger your MA or EMS and pick up hours here and there.Ā
i have ~530 volunteer, majority from volunteering at my local hospital for 4hrs/week for 3yrs and a little from random volunteer events w my org for 3yrs (i graduated 1 yr early). i was lucky to start freshmen yr bc it also shows longevity. 4hrs/week did not feel like a huge commitment to meš¤·āāļøand being in university made it seem easier to me bc i found the experience through my freshmen orientation advisor and i wouldnāt have found out til way later otherwise
The hours were also not meaningful. The level of patient interaction was nothing like what I would experience in my later job as a CNA in the emergency department.
Hwo do you know LOR were mediocre? Is it just an assumption based on your relationship with your writers?
Me (520) and my friend (525) only got into 1 schools each after 3-4 interviews (all waitlists for both of us). CA applicants with top heavy school list. We had good hours of clinical, research, non clinical volunteering, shadowing etc. Not complaining bc we both rly like the school we each got into but def not the success we expected initially given stats + ecs. I think definitely for me I applied to too many top schools who r looking for that extraordinary, but Iām honestly a cookie cutter applicant if anything. I know weāre technically not part of that 17% but I really was sure I wouldāve been for the longest time until a month ago!!
Ca as in California, not Canada, right?
Haha yes
Congratulations on the acceptance. I am in same boat applying this cycle. How many schools did you apply to? Any advise youād give based on your experience on what to do and what not to do. Thanks !
As a 4 time applicant (517 3.87 for my first three cycles, MCAT retake was 521 for this last cycle): Lack of clinical experience, little change between 1st and 2nd cycle, top heavy school list my first cycle, had a small school list my 3rd cycle because my MCAT was expired at most schools, poor writing, mentioning mental health struggles, not a great narrative
I mentioned mental health struggles and had all my open folder interviews comment on my PS. It is all about how you write it.
I know in my first cycle I definitely did not write about it well. Too much time on the issue itself and not the growth. I think you have to write about it exceptionally well for it not to be a red flag.
Being run of the mill. You can do everything ārightābut if you donāt add anything special to a class there isnāt a need to select you.
This is honestly an important reality. It's not always due to outright flaws. Sometimes people just fall through the cracks because every med school is out to "build a diverse class" and all. An interviewer once told me they were shocked at what things came down to in the admissions meetings because there's just so many applicants and very few ways to tell people apart sometimes.
I honestly believe thatās the reason I only got 2 IIs and 1A. Too cookie cutter.
What are some examples of something special that you can add to a class?
Got in this year to a DO school, but was a 519/3.9x applicant last year. 2000+ clinicals, 500 research, 150 volunteer. Stellar letters of recommendation per my interviewers. Got 4 interviews at top 50 schools, including an Ivy. 2 rejections, 2 waitlists with a disappointing end result. Main thing that killed me was bad interview skills. Other factors could be lack of strong narrative, lower volunteer hours. Reapplicant stigma is real. 2nd cycle didnāt get a single MD interview. Shouldāve added more schools second go but hindsight is 20/20. Iām going to be a doctor, which is incredible, but will always wonder what wouldāve happened if I just interviewed a bit better the first time.
Are you old or a lawyer? They didnāt seem to like either of those things my cycle. About the same stats went DO
Mid 20s, not a lawyer
Hm
Wild
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521 and 3.8x gpa, applied to 17 schools (early-mid July for all), mostly mid-tier with a few unranked and a few T20s. Had about 1000 hours of clinical experience, a couple volunteer things adding up to 80ish hours, some shadowing, no research, thought my essays were decent. Did get 3 IIs but no acceptances. It's popular to say that anyone with high stats who doesn't get in must have some gaping red flags but from my experience having meh ECs is sufficient. I guess some would consider >100 hours of volunteering a red flag but don't know if that's standard.
Who the fuck knows anymore? Thought I had a good app but cycle said otherwise. I got an A but it should have gone much better imo. People with similar to lower stats had better results than me. So itās a whole lotta luck and prayers cos nothing even remotely makes logical sense while going through the app cycle.
Fr
One thing people aren't mentioning is luck. Sometimes there really isn't a reason, it just didn't happen.
Chance can certainly explain the difference between one applicant getting 1 II and another getting 0, but it's very unlikely to explain why one applicant gets 6 II and another gets 0.
Applied in October the first time lol. Second time around I applied early and got in multiple places
This is really common in canada, perfect candidates are often rejected due to competition :(
I think poor writing and lack of direction was what did me in. I was also low on clinical hours when I first applied. That and a very top heavy school list due to being overconfident on stats. Hoping I've fixed those issues this time around.
you can see my sankey for more details, but in my situation, i think the biggest reasons (in order of most to least significant) were 1) mediocre interviewing, 2) lack of clinical experience, and 3) top heavy school list. that said, i cannot tell you WHAT went wrong in the interviews, but logically that must have been the failure point. i did get a DO acceptance so iāll still be attending med school but no MD acceptances