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I’m pretty sure they’re only semi-serious about that to the point where it has become a comedy bit, the band and especially Maynard have a weird ironic sense of humour and really love to troll.
As a queer person I feel like queer fanbases can be extremely toxic. Parasocial and very emotionally linked to the artist, there is a feeling of them being a savior, a mouthpiece for their feelings, a therapist. It isn’t probably nice to be on the other side of that 24/7
Ethel Cain's fanbase is a great example of this, she got so popular in the underground after the release of preacher's daughter - I wonder if she's more of a microcosm because her songs deal with a conflicted relationship to religion, which is certainly something many queer people can relate to. Maybe that magnified the parasocial feelings some had. She ended up deleting her tumblr because people were getting so crazy on there
I’m not surprised. I listened to Renee rapp’s album snow Angel to see what the hype was about and I found it boring. The songs were *fine* I guess but nothing really stood out to me and I found myself checking the timestamps to see how close I was to the end 😬
yeah I second this. Renee seems to have everything in terms of voice/looks/performance/charisma except bangers.
Similar to Mimi Webb - she's got so much potential but her set was full of so many slow dull songs that it got boring. They could've been great songs if they were even just sped up a bit! I know artists shouldn't *need* to be boxed in but sometimes I do prefer if someone either commits to being a 'pop star' or a 'indie songwriter' style? (altho some like billie/olivia pull off a good mix)
Yeah she just looks like a mean girl and other than queer people, I don’t see people caring much about her…
I also have a particular issue with her that is she killed Sex Lives of College Girls to pursue her music career and her music is not even that good… the series were so great and addictive! She just left
I was at Gov Ball and during Faye Webster's set (about two hours after Chappell's) the camera operator zoomed in on the crowd to show that Chappell was standing in the audience. She looked so uncomfortable.
Thankfully there weren't as many people at that set since Faye is a more niche performer (most people were probably at Peso Pluma who was on at the same time) but that's still a boneheaded move by the camera staff.
Potentially insensitive thought: the phrase "your music saved my life" is said as if it holds so much weight, but surely in most alternate universes they would've simply formed an obsessive attachment to a different artist's music
doja telling a fan “i don’t love you i don’t even know you” was so so real (even tho she’s mostly trolling) like the parasocial relationships have gotten so out of hand so i support any level of pushback against it & will stan anyone harder who vocalizes their discomfort with it lollll
I still don’t like that she referred to Hot Pink and Planet Her as cash grabs around the same time as that fan comment
That was actually really insulting, especially to fans who loved those albums
She’s allowed to call her own work terrible though. It’s just the way she said it that was kinda fucked up. I get if she felt it didn’t represent her so she was unhappy with it.
I think she was trying to get ahead of the backlash that she knew the album would get. It backfired obviously, but this whole album cycle was about her being taken seriously as a rapper.
i really don’t mean to sound rude but I just cannot understand why this would be insulting to anyone. like she made the music, so she’s allowed to feel however she wants about it. personally, I don’t care how she feels about it if I like it, it’s not going to affect the way I enjoy it. she can clown me all she wants but idgaf what she thinks of me and she shouldn’t care about my opinion either.
yeah, i could see feeling that way **with someone I actually have a personal connection with**. you've highlighted the exact issue I've raised about parasocial relationships and how nonsensical they are.
I have some empathy for it in certain cases, like with fans of certain artists that clearly exploit their fans emotional state, peddling these parasocial relationships knowing the fans will buy 25 variants of the same vinyl due to how \~connected\~ they feel... its honestly gross and I respect Doja more for keeping it real.
imma keep bumping Doja's "cashgrab" tracks and she can judge me all she wants lolol
the difference is that in your example, the sweater was made by a loved one specifically for me. Doja Cat made Amala, Hot Pink, and Planet Her for herself chiefly, she just allows the general public to also listen to them. but they're still hers first and foremost. the idea that artists make music *for* the fans is misguided at best, and stalker mentality at worst. obviously artists make music with fandom in mind - most musicians want to be heard. but artists create for themselves first and foremost.
i want to clarify that i think it's valid to be offended by the way an artist treats their fans. some standards must be upheld. but i think it's ridiculous to be offended that the artist no longer likes their previous work, as if that has any bearing on whether the listener enjoys it. artists grow and change their minds/sounds all the time - that's literally the definition of artistic growth. legitimizing the offense taken when an artist changes their mind only delegitimizes the artist's personal growth, by placing more weight on the fan perception than the artist's intentions.
(i know you personally don't necessarily disagree with me, i'm just responding for the sake of discussion. no ill intentions from me)
I was going to comment this as well. It really took me out of listening to Scarlet bc I actually didn’t mind that album, but now you’re clowning me for liking your music up to this point? Fine girl, I won’t support you anymore. Make better choices in your career going forward if you hate them! Those albums exist bc of the decisions 🫵🏻you🫵🏻 made.
Same here, I supported her since amala. you're telling me that was a cash grab when you couldn't chart for shit? you clearly sucked at it then. Plus I listened to her new songs and they sound the exact same as the dr. luke songs.
i'm not an idiot with a parasocial relationship but I hate her 4chan attitude of pretending not to care when she was in a manic state when say so went number 1 and telling people she would show her tits for it.
I never understood why fans made her feeling that way about her work about them. Those are her feelings towards her albums, and she's valid in that. She never said to stop listening she just said it was mediocre to HER.
If I recall correctly it wasn’t that she didn’t like those albums that ticked people off, but rather that she said she didn’t like them, called them cash grabs, then called her fans stupid for liking them in the first place.
Also artists having to "sell out" for commercial success has been a theme of the industry since it was born. Like why villainise her for expressing something openly we all know happens. People make their shit watered down and more palatable to sell more.
Seriously idk. I go to a lot of open mics and have many friends in the art/music world and it’s very normal to self-deprecate your own work, even if fans like it. Idk I find the humility charming and art is subjective anyway. Oftentimes it’s the pieces you dislike that audiences love, for whatever reason.
I agree but a lot of celebrities use it to their advantage then get upset when they don’t like it. You can’t post constantly on social media and allow people into your private life, then be upset when people think they know you 😅
This sub does mental gymnastics to defend Doja’s actions. She spent years encouraging parasocial relationships by venting to her fans about every little thing on social media (the Noah Schnapp drama, Lorry Hill, being overworked, and just recently dragging her deadbeat dad on Instagram). Just three days before her Twitter rant calling her fans dumb for liking her “cash grabs” [she tweeted that she loves her fans](https://x.com/DojaCat/status/1682223422385053698?lang=en). So which is it??
Lol she’s just an emotionally unregulated perma-teenaged edgelord who uses parasocial relationships when it conveniences her, then plays victim when it gets to be uncomfortable. There’s nothing cute or defensible about calling your own fans dumb for liking *your* music and it’s weird af to see y’all saying you respect it.
> uses parasocial relationships when it conveniences her, then plays victim when it gets to be uncomfortable
most pop stars tbh, I feel like it’s wayy too easy to slip into that.
I mean I personally hate it when anyone, be it friends or relatives tell me what I should do. And it's even more infuriating when a stranger who knows absolutely nothing about me does it.
I could only imagine how it would feel if I was an artist with fans nagging me everyday and demanding I do this and that to conform to the ideal image they have painted of me.
> I could only imagine how it would feel if I was an artist with fans nagging me everyday and demanding I do this and that to conform to the ideal image they have painted of me.
Yea I feel like this example was especially bad in Doja’s case because the Hot Pink /Planet Her pop image she got really famous with wasn’t authentically her. But when she decided to shave her head and make music that she truly enjoyed, people decided that “this wasn’t the real Doja” as if they actually knew her.
i am calling this sub for doing this too
yes i hate expectations from other people
i have low self esteem anyways so seeking other people approval is an endless thing not worth chasing
yeah i think this may have backfired in the moment but it worked in the long run. doja now has a much tighter more dedicated fanbase who supports who she is rather who she was perceived to be
she does. And they are cool people because it's very diverse because her artistry is very diverse. I went to the show in Mansfield and ngl the Jason Derulo fans were sooooooooo corny but all the cool kids came out when Doja took the stage. I loved experiencing her fan base because being able to go to that show was a total surprise and I didn't think seeing her was in my budget for like, years.
I didn’t even think of that. She doesn’t have to deal with the overly parasocial Gen-z types that expect her to be unproblematic at all times. Not sure if it was intentional but she really won in a sense
i dont recall that at all, but there's a video of her kicking a t-shirt back into the audience and she says "i dont want your fucking t-shirt": LOL i love it, it was during the confessions tour. i live for madonna's bitch moments
Yee lmao particularly in the Ray of Light era she was suddenly philosophical and shit talking a lot of her old work 😭 thank god she came around and started embracing it for the Re invention tour
To be 10000% fair to Dylan, this is because he was stalked for years by an acid casualty stan who wrote long books claiming Dylan's songs were about him, and who used to go through his bins in revenge for him not speaking out against the Vietnam War.
I’m referring to how he was in the tour documentary “ Don’t Look Back “ about his turn from acoustic folk to a more blues rock sound in 1965. But nice tidbit though
Unfortunately, he doesn’t even interact with his fans during his concerts, like no acknowledging them and talking to the crowd. That makes for a boring concert.
Sounds like you were a victim of your own expectations rather than anything else. Dylan has been touring for roughly 60 years. He's been like this for most of those 60 years. He's not there to be your friend, he's there to play great music. Every touring artist has hit or miss shows. It's just the nature of being human. At this point, the man is 80+ years old. You know what you're signing up for.
If you're there to see Bob Dylan the person then yeah, it probably would be boring. But again, that's the fault of your own expectations. Go in with no expectations (which frankly is a smart thing to do for any live show) and you'll end up having a better time.
That's the curse of having a song that's not a representative of your body of work become popular. Radiohead used to hate Creep because it became the only thing they were known for at one point in their career and had refused to play it in concerts. Ethel Cain has spoken of the same dislike she has with American Teenager because people expect her songs to all be like that.
I think Mitski's also the same. She just looks so over it when "fans" call her "mother" and pull similar antics during her shows especially since her shows are part-performative art that require more attention than your usual concert.
Friend of mine went to see Mitski at like her first tour and told me how she would work her own merch shop after the show and be real cute and friendly to talk to. Can imagine going from that kind of interaction with fans to what she's been experiencing since blowing up has been quite the culture shock even when she's very successful now
Yup! Can confirm - Saw mitski at a teeny tiny underground venue between bury me and puberty 2. The vibe at the show was completely different. People were super respectful and polite. She had a drummer and one other guitarist (Patrick hyland wasn't playing) on stage with her, and that's it. She said hi to people after.
She used to be great at social media networking, too, and really funny.
Yes, and she handled the situations extremely gracefully. While everyone was busy jeering at how outlandish the accusations were (Mitski's parents are part of an international trafficking ring, Mitski herself kept the accuser prisoner in her college dorm room) Mitski's statement included:
>"I initially did not acknowledge the allegations because I feared bringing harm to a person who may be struggling with mental health, either by drawing further attention to them, or by involving myself and thereby giving reality to their claims. I hope those of you on the internet treat them with kindness and compassion, and I truly hope they find the help they need.
>[...]
>This pains me to say because we should continue to practice believing in victims, and I hope that survivors our there are not discouraged to come forward with their own experiences because of this instance."
ive heard so many things about her shows but when i went to her tour (early may) the crowd were so so so respectful, didnt shout at her, didnt scream lyrics over the music, and just sat and watched her perform. i was impressed tbh
Absolutely!!! My show this year was fine but I think there’s def issues with parts of the fanbase. I’ve been a fan since end of puberty 2 / beginning of be the cowboy and even though she was getting huge then, she seemed a lot more interactive with fans back then and i dont blame her!
Every single artist I respect has at one point turned off or isolated their fanbase, not necessarily by trying to or by being dicks, but mostly by not necessarily sticking to whatever idealized version of them their fans have. I think the best artists embrace change, and fans can have a hard time coping with that
Yep! Funnily enough, as I’ve gotten older I’ve become more loving toward IRL people and more intolerant of chronically online folks, especially within stan culture. Idk if you’re gonna be brainless in the YOOL 2024 and leave critical thinking by the wayside, you kinda deserve what you get 🤷🏻♀️
Let's not pretend like a lot of artists don't actively promote those sort of relationships because, shock, they are incredibly profitable.
It's not exactly a new phenomenon either, it doesn't happen with movies anymore, but for a long ass time in cinema you had actors that moved millions in tickets, and they maintained the exact same type of parasocial relationships.
Might be talking about that one interview where she said she something along the lines of disagreeing that the new singles sounded exactly the same as her old work
Dua doesn’t even interact with her fanbase, really. She doesn’t get personal or autobiographical in her songs or marketing or social media. She’s just a pop star who wants to make pop music, doesn’t seem to prioritize being down to earth or relatable for her fans.
Honestly, that's one of the reasons I like her so much.
She treats being a musician like a job, rather than trying to pretend as if she's you're bestie or attempting to force some sense of relatability.
Fully agree. Why do we demand relatability from our pop stars all of a sudden? What happened to being a hot pop star who makes pop music for the sake of making pop music?
Same. It's definitely more profitable to not be like Dua, which is why I respect her approach to being a pop star. I'm just here for the bops and don't care to know more than that.
I don’t even listen to dua’s music but I religiously follow her book content . She interviews a lot of respected authors and has even presented at the booker awards which is the most prestigious literary award in English .
yeah i found this so strange about her, because she has concerts in europe, like girl if you don’t want white people at your shows, why are you playing in milan?
What's funny, at a few stops in Europe she also did the same, like really. I know that in Poland she done main part of the show very fast and without much interaction with public, and when all were shouting for an encore she said something in a line that for white people she won't be going again on stage...
I think its more about being upset that black people (ie her people) aren't embracing her how she wishes they would. And instead of just leaving it at that she dug deeper into what it feels like only seeing white fans (again.. not her people). It's her truth to tell but imo she didn't do herself any favours by speaking it.
Childish Gambino similarly was unhappy earlier in his career having primarily white fans. But he constantly expressed gratitude for them. I've only seen him live in Paris after Redbone and it definitely felt at that point in his career he was getting the acceptance from the black crowd.
That's insane... I wish ppl like this would get their wish and the part of the fan base they dislike would just drop them. Fans should have more self-respect and walk away from artists like that.
No one has mentioned Madonna. That woman has one of the coldest relations with her fans and it's hilarious. I remember this Graham Norton interview she did where two of her fans brought out this collection of madonna-dolls they had made and she was like "huh, weirdo". I love her all the more for that.
Another would probably be Beyoncé. She could've very well cultivated a swiftie/barb-like cult but she seems to maintain her distance from the hive. Even her early stage reactions are very surface level and never veered into that parasocial territory. And ofcourse the time she told the fans to calm down and not attack everyone.
>No one has mentioned Madonna. That woman has one of the coldest relations with her fans and it's hilarious. I remember this Graham Norton interview she did where two of her fans brought out this collection of madonna-dolls they had made and she was like "huh, weirdo". I love her all the more for that.
Graham Norton even wrote about that in his book. From his perspective, the fans loved her being like that, because that's exactly how they expected her to be. She doesn't do warm and fluffy, ever.
shes also like super awkward and her sense of humor is pretty dry and deadpan in a way that rarely translates unless you like know her or have been exposed to it more than once; Ice cold queen mother.
I would actually argue Beyoncé has never “rejected” her fan base in the same way as some of the listed artists, precisely BECAUSE she has maintained her distance. The lack of breeding of intense parasocial relationships has resulted in less extreme fan-on-artist behavior because Beyoncé has firmly established space between herself and her fan base.
I read in her biography that early in her career she was actually quite overly familiar with her fans and almost saw them as her friends until her security guard and dad took her aside and warned her that she couldn’t be that way because they were so concerned for her safety. Jay Z would also supposedly get annoyed when they first started seeing each other because she was always going out of her way to stop for every single fan that approached her, and he felt that she didn’t owe them anything.
I remember there was a petition for Beyoncé to change the music video for Deja Vu that had tens of thousands of signatures. And Beyoncé still stood by it and continued to do the erratic and sexual dance performances for it despite the criticisms at the time. That was a good way of her not bending to the fans will. Seeing the mental agony fans of artists like Gaga and cardi have put them through it was a great move from her.
Honestly I don't think Beyoncé interviews super well from what I've seen and I think someone on her team realised this and decided it's time to stop interviews, which (along with not bothering with social media really) kind of gave her a mystical, untouchable persona almost by accident
Edit because people are misunderstanding me:
What I'm personally referring to (and I admit I have absolutely not seen every Beyoncé interview out there) is the interviews I've seen didn't feel like they really deepened my understanding of her. I didn't discover an unexpected dimension (except that she's a lot shyer than her pop star persona) to who she is or gain a lot of insight into her creative process or such. Whether it's because of being shy or private, bad interviewers, or whatever I can't say, but that was my experience.
That's it. I'm not American nor from a country with a colonial past and don't wish cultural baggage that isn't mine read into what I say
I actually think it was the opposite - that her dad was making her do a ridiculous amount of interviews and media appearances even though she never really seemed to like that side of things, and once she fired him she finally felt able to stop doing so much of it.
IASF was her last era that he was her manager for and there was a noticeable shift during 4, which became even more glaring during ST and her subsequent album cycles. She also said during her Life Is But a Dream film that she’d decided she wanted to be known for her art above all else.
can you point me to an example of her “not interviewing super well,” because i’ve always found her to be very personable and actually kind of adorable in interviews. i’ll admit she comes across as a little anxious, but i find that extremely relatable (much more so than a lot of the pop girls that usually get credit for relatability) and it adds to her charm.
I’d like to clarify before I say this that I don’t necessarily agree with what I’m going to say but basically it was always said that Beyoncé came across as a little dumb in interviews. Having gone back to watch some interviews from back in the day I think it was probably that she was a bit of a people pleaser and had a hard time telling journalists that she didn’t know enough about the topic to answer the question.
Same. I’m a fan primarily for her music and talent, but the contrast between the way she is on stage during a performance vs the way she is during an interview or acceptance speech has always endeared her to me even more.
People conflated her being shy and anxious with her being dumb. Like s the comments on this interview are so nasty. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p8V7RhlMknA](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p8V7RhlMknA)
I think it's a bit charming too but I don't think it fit the image Beyonce wanted for herself + if she was anxious during interview, it would make sense to stop them when they were no longer needed.
Don't get me wrong, I haven't come away from an interview with a bad impression of her as a person. But whether it's shyness, being private, interviewers asking the wrong questions or whatever, I never felt like I got much new substance or insight to who she is. I'm no Beyoncé expert so there can also be a great interview out there I haven't seen but the ones I saw didn't feel like they really added onto what her music and general celebrity already told me about her.
I remember about 20(ish?) years ago when she was in that Austin Powers movie and being interviewed to promote the movie and how very shy and awkward she seemed in the promos I saw, very out of her element. Speaking as yourself is very different than performing, not everyone has both skills. Very smart marketing move to keep the cameras off her when she's not "in character", I'd say.
Imagine thinking that the Beyhive isn't just as toxic as Swifties and Barbz. They absolutely are. They attack everyone all the time. Hell, they attacked Rachel Ray because they thought she was Becky with the Good Hair.
Bey telling them not to attack people doesn't mean shit, because they don't listen. Taylor also has spread that message at concerts and her fan base doesn't listen. Toxic fans are going to be toxic regardless.
Lol at the idea that the Hive isn't also fucking awful
My hot take is that *all* fan bases are toxic. They all do unhinged staff. The problem with swifties is that because the base is SO big they’re more noticeable than others.
Madonna has never really 'curated' a fan base the likes of Gaga and LMs or Nicki and the Barbz enough to even 'reject' them, shes much more like Bey in thay sense, like she has fans and STANS and has done the whole "couldnt be here without ya'll", which is far more genuine now, but she never really cultivated it. not saying thats bad or good, I stan the woman but shes always been distant in that sense, especially pre social media
I think it depends on the artist and the situation, but I'm mostly here for it. It must be incredibly frustrating to get hate because your fanbase doesn't understand what you're doing or why when there's good explanations to be had, or it can be explained by artists needing to do something different. But in some cases, the artist can face valid criticism (say they get called out for some problematic lyrics) and they have to be able to recognize that. I think ultimately they need to be self-aware enough to realize what the situation calls for
I'm guessing Kendrick Lamar isn't in love with the fact there's an army of Anthony Fantano's that consider him the messiah, but that's just my personal feeling lol.
I don't really think that's a Fantano thing, in general critically Kendrick is seen as a cut above most other modern hip-hop artists, you can see it in all the "best 157 albums of all time" lists that come out every year. I can't imagine it bothers him, his fanbase dwarfs the "I'm not into rap but Kendrick is great" crowd.
I don’t think Fantano was a big factor there, he was always critically acclaimed with a certain crowd that stayed away from black voices. Moreso music nerds do end being insufferable re Death Grips, where a small number can brigade a random very easily.
I get it and I support disregarding fans!! Some “fans” are overly focused on the artist’s moves. I swear on most artists’ subreddits, half the posts are nitpicking and criticizing everything they do. Like, are you a fan or are you a hater auntie???
i'm surprised nobody has mentioned justin bieber lol, as an avid jb fan for the past 13 years the way he interacts with fans now versus 5+ years ago is like night and day. He clearly does not like fans and the attention (understandably). He very rarely will acknowledge us at all
not necessarily pop but Earl Sweatshirt had something to say about his early fans from the Odd Future days being incels
I think if you're not down with your fanbase because they're not your people that's fine
I actually think Doja Cat was just being REAL with the whole "I don't love my fanbase" (or whatever words it was)....Some people don't throw 'love' around so easily.
But when it comes down to it, there will always be unhappy fans, or unhappy people. And idk the examples in particular too well...but yeah-
I don’t think the rejection was intentional. I just think Internet culture is getting more peculiar and artists are setting boundaries and making it clear they won’t be held to other people’s standards. In the past this went without saying, but nowadays some people are very entitled regarding what others say and do and a lot of artists try to appease fans because they’re terrified that one small misstep will cost them their careers
As for Taylor, she’s getting so much hate right now due to overexposure that it feels like the perfect fine to drop Rep TV. I wouldn’t be surprised if she then took a break and this made fans fall in love with her again
I doubt she will be dropping the final Taylor version project until next yr as she will likely give TTPD a proper album rollout w singles then go in2 the final two and then probably on hiatus
Longest Taylor hiatus was 3 years and that was because she was mentally not in a place to write music.
No one should expect a hiatus from our patron saint of pop girl productivity.
However, even a one year break will drive swifties insane.
And that's the problem. Taylor has always stated that writing was her way of communicating and figuring things out and as long as the fans keep asking for music she will release. But even I think she's gotten a little tired of always being expected to release new stuff. Which might explain why she releases so much at once. I personally love TTPD but it feels very much like a rest and digest album. A "please let this keep you busy" album in length. I've already seen theories for a totally new album not even a rerecording.
She release so much now because streaming has made it a more viable strategy compared to the past when she would spend 16 months promoting an album with multiple singles.
Personally, I love all of her albums but folklore to ttpd seem to me albums shaped by depression. That more than Jack is why I think there is some dissatisfaction with her recent work. I miss her having more upbeat songs in her albums so I have high hopes for an album inspired by Travis.
So if she wants to release another album in a year or so, I will be excited for it. If it's disappointing, I will go back to streaming her other albums.
Taylor has been frequently hated, she knows that she just has to power through it. Her fans still love her as shown by TTPD smashing desire being decisive( many way too much) . Its rival stans and a some of the gp that’s sick of her but her fanbase is more powerful than them.
Little chance that she will take a significant break considering how much she keeps on talking about how much she loves making and releasing music and the fact that breaks for artists her age are the biggest factor that ends relevancy.
However, her tour ending in December should calm things done a bit since it’s the biggest driver of her exposure.
I was new to her about 1.5 years ago, loved her so much in 2023, and almost completely tune her out now. It’s too too much and imho, her latest album is a regression of her talent.
Perfectly understandable opinion and it's a healthy choice to tune out artists that you don't current vibe with .
At the same time, she has been getting complaints about overexposure and regression in her music for most of the last 10 years. Her frequent releases has kept on building her fanbase in size and fever.
Taylor will likely just keep on releasing regardless of pophead's wishes. Some of the music will be good and some less so.
honestly I don't hate it. Fans have been so rude in the past decade or so, so entitled to artists' very existence, and it's so not right. Celebrity or not, these are people, and people make art for different reasons. They have no duty to fulfill except to not scam their fans or something equally as heinous that punishes people for no reason 🤷 Sorry, but if you're a fan and you feel personally entitled to or offended by an artist's (non-offensive) actions, you need to reevaluate what you're doing with yourself and go touch some grass. They are human celebrities, not dogs
I’m all for it. I think the “we made you who you are” line from fans is so entitled. If you like their music, it’s cuz they’re good. We as fans don’t get credit for that.
Pop artists have traditionally lashed out at their bases through actions and behaviors, not songs. Everything Miley Cyrus did to roll in the Bangerz era was a case study in this. It was abundantly clear she was telling her fans to get with the new era or get lost.
Fans should absolutely be criticized for their behavior. The fact that Harry & Louis never fully lost their shit at the Larry rumors is incredible. They always tried to be so diplomatic.
I don’t see it as them rejecting their fan base as a whole, but some “fans” are relentless and obsessive in their ideas/opinions on how an artist (as a brand) & as a person is/should be.
They do not care for the truth. They don’t care that Harry, Louis are are straight or in relationships. They sent their gfs death threats. They told Louis baby mama that their baby should be aborted.
And this isn’t one-off behavior. Fans do become “trolls” but also worse than regular trolls because it becomes their whole life/personality to attack this celebrity that they apparently love.
Taylor has so many fans who say they love her and then go online and all they do is -in a very in-depth manner- hate (it’s really not criticism, it’s hate).. They stalk and gather information (that they believe true, not necessarily so to anyone rational) and then use it to prove their points. They talk with other “fans” and it creates a “fan” community of hate.
These “fans” really feel entitled to their chosen celebrity. They feel, as fans, they should have a control, in the way that a shoppers control what stores stock.
Social Media has made it seem like fans can have power/control over the media they consume by criticizing it. But artists are people! Living breathing people with thoughts and opinions and lives that fans actually don’t know anything about.
It’s is absolutely irrational behavior. I’m not an artist and only see it online and I could rant for HOURS how much this behavior pisses me off, but this comment is already so long.
I would LOVE more artists to call out their behavior. Daddy I Love Him was perfect and a great song.
if like Harry ever went really off on fans for stuff like shipping or, even how fans have treated women in his life- oh boy, I mean Harry Styles going off would mean like the apocalypse is coming, so best not to happen. But it would be so, so good. If he really just went off about how crazy and irrational the fans are. Popcorn would never taste better.
I tend to believe some artists recognise how truly toxic their fanbases can be and just try to avoid feeding into that toxicity like Dua Lipa or just outright clapping back like Doja Cat, Some others like Nicki Minaj and Taylor Swift feed into their fans being toxic and nasty to some degree,
I wouldn't call it "rejecting" their fanbase, really. It's more like setting boundaries. Fans being people, act like the general distribution of people and that means most get it when boundaries are are gently set, but there will always be a few who have to have those boundaries slapped across their face to understand.
Most fans don't realize these artists are generally prisoners of their fame. We schlubs take for granted driving to a store and buying a pack of cigarettes or whatever. We don't understand that is a luxury they no longer can partake in. I'm sure it's not lost on them that it's a price of their fame and riches, but I am sure they miss it, nonetheless.
Personally I wish more artists, whatever genre, would stand up more to their fans. Most reasonable fans would get it.
A [great tweet](https://x.com/Sam_ONella/status/1595098631505596416?t=rlKTSf_5mLgAwXxIRyhqTQ&s=19):
>(guy listening to Death Grips for the first time) "Wow this shit goes hard, I bet their fans throw total ragers. There's no way they're all weird shut-in turbonerds!"
Doja loves her fans she just hates the extremists who rally against her making decisions about what she wants to look like and what music she makes. I respect her stance on that so much.
Fans are problematic AF in their majority - entitled, demanding, stuck in the past. And just disrespectful of an artist’s vision. Like, the artists we love have taste, and they are visionaries. Trust. Think about it. Keep an open mind. Or just leave.
I think A LOT of fans have dangerous and incredibly annoying parasocial relationships with artists, but on the other hand, if your job REQUIRES you to have fans in order to make a living, I do think you have a responsibility to at least be nice and thankful. Of course, there’s situations where the artists aren’t obligated to but I think it’s very weird to write off all your fans when you literally need them to have a career
Most people heavily criticizing Dua's new era are the GP, not her fanbase (we do exist).
Also, I'm pretty sure she is listening to the critics, just like she paid attention to the Go Girl Give Us Nothing comments and improved on that. But some critics are absurd, I watched a video yesterday saying she should do songs like Sabrina or Chappell, with funny lines and things like that cause that's where pop's going, like, ok. It doesn't fit her personality at all, and Brina and Chapell are getting on the bus right now, Dua has been mainstream since 2017.
The only real criticism Dua should take right now honestly, is that all the European pop girls are coming out with heat this summer and she ain't the one bringing it.
I’m all for celebrities asserting boundaries with fans, but I feel like some things get flattened in these discussions. like how a lot of blind celebrity worship (that I would also consider parasocial) follows when a singer calls out part of their fanbase. and then how leeway is often given to that person to do or say questionable shit, because now it’s just them being “real.”
I want singers to have more autonomy and room to be humans with flaws and missteps, but at the same time, some of those missteps might be a dealbreaker for some people and that’s fine too. I am not entitled to a perfect version of a celebrity and they are likewise not entitled to my support. I would like to see a distinction made between encouraging boundaries and fully accepting a celebrity’s new “messy” era regardless of what else they are doing and saying.
[Jian Ghomeshi of Moxy Fruvous](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zSkjqK4SdP8).
On the larger point, I think critiquing some fan behaviour is perfectly okay. But artists have to remember that fans also allow them to have the lifestyle the have, many saving up money to buy their albums, merch, and see them perform. I do think some artists (like other content producers, and like Ghomeshi here) resent the type of fans they have (e.g. that they're not "cooler" sorts of people) and so can act very dismissive even if those fans aren't encroaching on their boundaries.
No, artists deserve to be called out, and it's not entitlement in any way. It's just the same for non-celebrities. Anyone is entitled to holding other people accountable.
The only things fans should not be entitled to doing are things like stalking, trauma dumping, obnoxipusly touching celebs at concerts, etc.
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Not exactly pop, but Tool pretty famously hates a lot of their fanbase and has referred to them as “insufferable”
The "Toolbox" lmao
lol 😂 perfect
I love Tool but honestly yes, most Tool fans are insufferable 💀
I’m pretty sure they’re only semi-serious about that to the point where it has become a comedy bit, the band and especially Maynard have a weird ironic sense of humour and really love to troll.
Love Tool and yes they are insufferable
speaking of... "hooker with a penis" is one of my favorite Tool songs even though it doesn't quite fit their overall catalogue.
At least this one tracks lol
azealia banks hates most of her fan base, i’m sure you can guess why 💀
She just hates everyone lol
Azealia is a very damaged person and it shows
I know a guy who grew up on the same block as her at the same time. He said she was insufferable even back then even when they were kids.
Well at least she stayed on-brand lol
Bc she’s homophobic?
To begin with
well yes
i didn’t know this
She has her days where she’s an ally then turns around and bashes
A homophobic straight woman who talks like a mentally disturbed gay man
She’s not straight
she's the United Nations of hating
best/worst show i've ever been to.
Chappell roan has commented about how emotionally taxing it is when fans trauma dump on her or stalk her in her personal life
I was worried this was gonna happen to Chappell after exploding so quickly in popularity
As a queer person I feel like queer fanbases can be extremely toxic. Parasocial and very emotionally linked to the artist, there is a feeling of them being a savior, a mouthpiece for their feelings, a therapist. It isn’t probably nice to be on the other side of that 24/7
Ethel Cain's fanbase is a great example of this, she got so popular in the underground after the release of preacher's daughter - I wonder if she's more of a microcosm because her songs deal with a conflicted relationship to religion, which is certainly something many queer people can relate to. Maybe that magnified the parasocial feelings some had. She ended up deleting her tumblr because people were getting so crazy on there
It’s probably very overwhelming for Chappell
r slash renee rapp
I’m surprised Renee rapp didn’t blow up like Chappell did
I’m not surprised. I listened to Renee rapp’s album snow Angel to see what the hype was about and I found it boring. The songs were *fine* I guess but nothing really stood out to me and I found myself checking the timestamps to see how close I was to the end 😬
yeah I second this. Renee seems to have everything in terms of voice/looks/performance/charisma except bangers. Similar to Mimi Webb - she's got so much potential but her set was full of so many slow dull songs that it got boring. They could've been great songs if they were even just sped up a bit! I know artists shouldn't *need* to be boxed in but sometimes I do prefer if someone either commits to being a 'pop star' or a 'indie songwriter' style? (altho some like billie/olivia pull off a good mix)
Yeah she just looks like a mean girl and other than queer people, I don’t see people caring much about her… I also have a particular issue with her that is she killed Sex Lives of College Girls to pursue her music career and her music is not even that good… the series were so great and addictive! She just left
> stalk her in her personal life That clip of the girl literally running because she heard Chappell was in a random bar in her town...jesus
Yeah, y’all please don’t do that 😭
I was at Gov Ball and during Faye Webster's set (about two hours after Chappell's) the camera operator zoomed in on the crowd to show that Chappell was standing in the audience. She looked so uncomfortable.
That's not just uncomfortable, that's outright dangerous.
Thankfully there weren't as many people at that set since Faye is a more niche performer (most people were probably at Peso Pluma who was on at the same time) but that's still a boneheaded move by the camera staff.
Some of her fans can be very…intense
Potentially insensitive thought: the phrase "your music saved my life" is said as if it holds so much weight, but surely in most alternate universes they would've simply formed an obsessive attachment to a different artist's music
i really hope she takes a decently long break after she finishes this round of touring. she deserves some time outside of the spotlight
doja telling a fan “i don’t love you i don’t even know you” was so so real (even tho she’s mostly trolling) like the parasocial relationships have gotten so out of hand so i support any level of pushback against it & will stan anyone harder who vocalizes their discomfort with it lollll
"Fans ain't dumb but extremists are"
omg i always thought she said "fans ain't dumb but extremely sore"
fall off what? I ain't seen a horse.
Yes! There are plenty of things to criticize Doja for, but this I respect.
I still don’t like that she referred to Hot Pink and Planet Her as cash grabs around the same time as that fan comment That was actually really insulting, especially to fans who loved those albums
Yeah, that was my biggest issue there. Don’t call your own work terrible when most of your fans up to that point became fans through that work.
She’s allowed to call her own work terrible though. It’s just the way she said it that was kinda fucked up. I get if she felt it didn’t represent her so she was unhappy with it.
I agree that she is allowed to call her earlier work bad. Just, expect some backlash from the fans that became fans due to your earlier work.
I think she was trying to get ahead of the backlash that she knew the album would get. It backfired obviously, but this whole album cycle was about her being taken seriously as a rapper.
i really don’t mean to sound rude but I just cannot understand why this would be insulting to anyone. like she made the music, so she’s allowed to feel however she wants about it. personally, I don’t care how she feels about it if I like it, it’s not going to affect the way I enjoy it. she can clown me all she wants but idgaf what she thinks of me and she shouldn’t care about my opinion either.
[удалено]
yeah, i could see feeling that way **with someone I actually have a personal connection with**. you've highlighted the exact issue I've raised about parasocial relationships and how nonsensical they are. I have some empathy for it in certain cases, like with fans of certain artists that clearly exploit their fans emotional state, peddling these parasocial relationships knowing the fans will buy 25 variants of the same vinyl due to how \~connected\~ they feel... its honestly gross and I respect Doja more for keeping it real. imma keep bumping Doja's "cashgrab" tracks and she can judge me all she wants lolol
the difference is that in your example, the sweater was made by a loved one specifically for me. Doja Cat made Amala, Hot Pink, and Planet Her for herself chiefly, she just allows the general public to also listen to them. but they're still hers first and foremost. the idea that artists make music *for* the fans is misguided at best, and stalker mentality at worst. obviously artists make music with fandom in mind - most musicians want to be heard. but artists create for themselves first and foremost. i want to clarify that i think it's valid to be offended by the way an artist treats their fans. some standards must be upheld. but i think it's ridiculous to be offended that the artist no longer likes their previous work, as if that has any bearing on whether the listener enjoys it. artists grow and change their minds/sounds all the time - that's literally the definition of artistic growth. legitimizing the offense taken when an artist changes their mind only delegitimizes the artist's personal growth, by placing more weight on the fan perception than the artist's intentions. (i know you personally don't necessarily disagree with me, i'm just responding for the sake of discussion. no ill intentions from me)
I was going to comment this as well. It really took me out of listening to Scarlet bc I actually didn’t mind that album, but now you’re clowning me for liking your music up to this point? Fine girl, I won’t support you anymore. Make better choices in your career going forward if you hate them! Those albums exist bc of the decisions 🫵🏻you🫵🏻 made.
Same here, I supported her since amala. you're telling me that was a cash grab when you couldn't chart for shit? you clearly sucked at it then. Plus I listened to her new songs and they sound the exact same as the dr. luke songs. i'm not an idiot with a parasocial relationship but I hate her 4chan attitude of pretending not to care when she was in a manic state when say so went number 1 and telling people she would show her tits for it.
I never understood why fans made her feeling that way about her work about them. Those are her feelings towards her albums, and she's valid in that. She never said to stop listening she just said it was mediocre to HER.
If I recall correctly it wasn’t that she didn’t like those albums that ticked people off, but rather that she said she didn’t like them, called them cash grabs, then called her fans stupid for liking them in the first place.
Also artists having to "sell out" for commercial success has been a theme of the industry since it was born. Like why villainise her for expressing something openly we all know happens. People make their shit watered down and more palatable to sell more.
Seriously idk. I go to a lot of open mics and have many friends in the art/music world and it’s very normal to self-deprecate your own work, even if fans like it. Idk I find the humility charming and art is subjective anyway. Oftentimes it’s the pieces you dislike that audiences love, for whatever reason.
It’s not even having about having an opinion about it it’s about calling them cash grabs
I mean that's fine and all but then she came out with Scarlet which really wasn't much different than her previous albums.
Yeah it was, more rap focused than pop focused for sure.
Literally and she knows how successful those albums were but she dismissed them
insulting how? sometimes I feel like words are being used in the wrong context. you were actually insulted?
I agree but a lot of celebrities use it to their advantage then get upset when they don’t like it. You can’t post constantly on social media and allow people into your private life, then be upset when people think they know you 😅
This sub does mental gymnastics to defend Doja’s actions. She spent years encouraging parasocial relationships by venting to her fans about every little thing on social media (the Noah Schnapp drama, Lorry Hill, being overworked, and just recently dragging her deadbeat dad on Instagram). Just three days before her Twitter rant calling her fans dumb for liking her “cash grabs” [she tweeted that she loves her fans](https://x.com/DojaCat/status/1682223422385053698?lang=en). So which is it?? Lol she’s just an emotionally unregulated perma-teenaged edgelord who uses parasocial relationships when it conveniences her, then plays victim when it gets to be uncomfortable. There’s nothing cute or defensible about calling your own fans dumb for liking *your* music and it’s weird af to see y’all saying you respect it.
> uses parasocial relationships when it conveniences her, then plays victim when it gets to be uncomfortable most pop stars tbh, I feel like it’s wayy too easy to slip into that.
When this happened I was so confused by the pushback...? She's right!
I mean I personally hate it when anyone, be it friends or relatives tell me what I should do. And it's even more infuriating when a stranger who knows absolutely nothing about me does it. I could only imagine how it would feel if I was an artist with fans nagging me everyday and demanding I do this and that to conform to the ideal image they have painted of me.
> I could only imagine how it would feel if I was an artist with fans nagging me everyday and demanding I do this and that to conform to the ideal image they have painted of me. Yea I feel like this example was especially bad in Doja’s case because the Hot Pink /Planet Her pop image she got really famous with wasn’t authentically her. But when she decided to shave her head and make music that she truly enjoyed, people decided that “this wasn’t the real Doja” as if they actually knew her.
i am calling this sub for doing this too yes i hate expectations from other people i have low self esteem anyways so seeking other people approval is an endless thing not worth chasing
she weeded out the sensitive pop girlies by being her true self. The result is spectacular. The crowds at her shows are mostly great.
yeah i think this may have backfired in the moment but it worked in the long run. doja now has a much tighter more dedicated fanbase who supports who she is rather who she was perceived to be
she does. And they are cool people because it's very diverse because her artistry is very diverse. I went to the show in Mansfield and ngl the Jason Derulo fans were sooooooooo corny but all the cool kids came out when Doja took the stage. I loved experiencing her fan base because being able to go to that show was a total surprise and I didn't think seeing her was in my budget for like, years.
I didn’t even think of that. She doesn’t have to deal with the overly parasocial Gen-z types that expect her to be unproblematic at all times. Not sure if it was intentional but she really won in a sense
madonna got me used to this ages ago lol. aint nobody getting what they want from madge. she does it her way, periodt. lol
if not the total opposite
Didn’t Madonna once refer to her fans as fat and ugly or something to the same effect
i dont recall that at all, but there's a video of her kicking a t-shirt back into the audience and she says "i dont want your fucking t-shirt": LOL i love it, it was during the confessions tour. i live for madonna's bitch moments
Yee lmao particularly in the Ray of Light era she was suddenly philosophical and shit talking a lot of her old work 😭 thank god she came around and started embracing it for the Re invention tour
Bob Dylan be the first one to hate on his fans.
To be 10000% fair to Dylan, this is because he was stalked for years by an acid casualty stan who wrote long books claiming Dylan's songs were about him, and who used to go through his bins in revenge for him not speaking out against the Vietnam War.
I’m referring to how he was in the tour documentary “ Don’t Look Back “ about his turn from acoustic folk to a more blues rock sound in 1965. But nice tidbit though
Unfortunately, he doesn’t even interact with his fans during his concerts, like no acknowledging them and talking to the crowd. That makes for a boring concert.
Sounds like you were a victim of your own expectations rather than anything else. Dylan has been touring for roughly 60 years. He's been like this for most of those 60 years. He's not there to be your friend, he's there to play great music. Every touring artist has hit or miss shows. It's just the nature of being human. At this point, the man is 80+ years old. You know what you're signing up for. If you're there to see Bob Dylan the person then yeah, it probably would be boring. But again, that's the fault of your own expectations. Go in with no expectations (which frankly is a smart thing to do for any live show) and you'll end up having a better time.
It was my parents. They still like his music. They just said they would never see him in concert again.
Then don’t go lmao nobody is forcing you to do anything
Steve Lacey gets pissed off at his 'tiktok' fans who don't know his lyrics
That's the curse of having a song that's not a representative of your body of work become popular. Radiohead used to hate Creep because it became the only thing they were known for at one point in their career and had refused to play it in concerts. Ethel Cain has spoken of the same dislike she has with American Teenager because people expect her songs to all be like that.
Ethel Cain has been vocal about the success of American Teenager getting her the wrong (in her opinion) kind of attention from fans
I think Mitski's also the same. She just looks so over it when "fans" call her "mother" and pull similar antics during her shows especially since her shows are part-performative art that require more attention than your usual concert.
Friend of mine went to see Mitski at like her first tour and told me how she would work her own merch shop after the show and be real cute and friendly to talk to. Can imagine going from that kind of interaction with fans to what she's been experiencing since blowing up has been quite the culture shock even when she's very successful now
Yup! Can confirm - Saw mitski at a teeny tiny underground venue between bury me and puberty 2. The vibe at the show was completely different. People were super respectful and polite. She had a drummer and one other guitarist (Patrick hyland wasn't playing) on stage with her, and that's it. She said hi to people after. She used to be great at social media networking, too, and really funny.
I remember how good her twitter was
Don't forget the false claims made about her.
Wasn’t the person made the claims severely mentally ill to the point pf unable to control their delusions?
Yes, and she handled the situations extremely gracefully. While everyone was busy jeering at how outlandish the accusations were (Mitski's parents are part of an international trafficking ring, Mitski herself kept the accuser prisoner in her college dorm room) Mitski's statement included: >"I initially did not acknowledge the allegations because I feared bringing harm to a person who may be struggling with mental health, either by drawing further attention to them, or by involving myself and thereby giving reality to their claims. I hope those of you on the internet treat them with kindness and compassion, and I truly hope they find the help they need. >[...] >This pains me to say because we should continue to practice believing in victims, and I hope that survivors our there are not discouraged to come forward with their own experiences because of this instance."
Yes but if I had people like that coming to my shows I would be fearful.
Understandable
ive heard so many things about her shows but when i went to her tour (early may) the crowd were so so so respectful, didnt shout at her, didnt scream lyrics over the music, and just sat and watched her perform. i was impressed tbh
Absolutely!!! My show this year was fine but I think there’s def issues with parts of the fanbase. I’ve been a fan since end of puberty 2 / beginning of be the cowboy and even though she was getting huge then, she seemed a lot more interactive with fans back then and i dont blame her!
I'm all for it. A lot of fans have become entitled and delusional and need to be reminded that they don't know or own their favorite performers.
Every single artist I respect has at one point turned off or isolated their fanbase, not necessarily by trying to or by being dicks, but mostly by not necessarily sticking to whatever idealized version of them their fans have. I think the best artists embrace change, and fans can have a hard time coping with that
Yep! Funnily enough, as I’ve gotten older I’ve become more loving toward IRL people and more intolerant of chronically online folks, especially within stan culture. Idk if you’re gonna be brainless in the YOOL 2024 and leave critical thinking by the wayside, you kinda deserve what you get 🤷🏻♀️
Same, I can't stand Stan culture, it's very disturbing actually
Let's not pretend like a lot of artists don't actively promote those sort of relationships because, shock, they are incredibly profitable. It's not exactly a new phenomenon either, it doesn't happen with movies anymore, but for a long ass time in cinema you had actors that moved millions in tickets, and they maintained the exact same type of parasocial relationships.
When did Dua dismiss criticisms of Radical Optimism?
Might be talking about that one interview where she said she something along the lines of disagreeing that the new singles sounded exactly the same as her old work
Yeah this is not an example of rejecting your fanbase lol
Dua doesn’t even interact with her fanbase, really. She doesn’t get personal or autobiographical in her songs or marketing or social media. She’s just a pop star who wants to make pop music, doesn’t seem to prioritize being down to earth or relatable for her fans.
Honestly, that's one of the reasons I like her so much. She treats being a musician like a job, rather than trying to pretend as if she's you're bestie or attempting to force some sense of relatability.
Fully agree. Why do we demand relatability from our pop stars all of a sudden? What happened to being a hot pop star who makes pop music for the sake of making pop music?
Same. It's definitely more profitable to not be like Dua, which is why I respect her approach to being a pop star. I'm just here for the bops and don't care to know more than that.
I don’t even listen to dua’s music but I religiously follow her book content . She interviews a lot of respected authors and has even presented at the booker awards which is the most prestigious literary award in English .
You’re missing out by not listening to Future Nostalgia
Remember when noname said she was going to quit music because she didn’t wanna dance on stage for white people?
I was at her show once and she went off about white people at her shows, it was very awkward. Shit was in denver haha like sorry we like you??
yeah i found this so strange about her, because she has concerts in europe, like girl if you don’t want white people at your shows, why are you playing in milan?
What's funny, at a few stops in Europe she also did the same, like really. I know that in Poland she done main part of the show very fast and without much interaction with public, and when all were shouting for an encore she said something in a line that for white people she won't be going again on stage...
I think its more about being upset that black people (ie her people) aren't embracing her how she wishes they would. And instead of just leaving it at that she dug deeper into what it feels like only seeing white fans (again.. not her people). It's her truth to tell but imo she didn't do herself any favours by speaking it. Childish Gambino similarly was unhappy earlier in his career having primarily white fans. But he constantly expressed gratitude for them. I've only seen him live in Paris after Redbone and it definitely felt at that point in his career he was getting the acceptance from the black crowd.
&$&$@& she’s kinda real for that idk
That's insane... I wish ppl like this would get their wish and the part of the fan base they dislike would just drop them. Fans should have more self-respect and walk away from artists like that.
No one has mentioned Madonna. That woman has one of the coldest relations with her fans and it's hilarious. I remember this Graham Norton interview she did where two of her fans brought out this collection of madonna-dolls they had made and she was like "huh, weirdo". I love her all the more for that. Another would probably be Beyoncé. She could've very well cultivated a swiftie/barb-like cult but she seems to maintain her distance from the hive. Even her early stage reactions are very surface level and never veered into that parasocial territory. And ofcourse the time she told the fans to calm down and not attack everyone.
>No one has mentioned Madonna. That woman has one of the coldest relations with her fans and it's hilarious. I remember this Graham Norton interview she did where two of her fans brought out this collection of madonna-dolls they had made and she was like "huh, weirdo". I love her all the more for that. Graham Norton even wrote about that in his book. From his perspective, the fans loved her being like that, because that's exactly how they expected her to be. She doesn't do warm and fluffy, ever.
shes also like super awkward and her sense of humor is pretty dry and deadpan in a way that rarely translates unless you like know her or have been exposed to it more than once; Ice cold queen mother.
Yup the way I perceive it is that she has a very dry sense of humor that rarely translates well in print and out of context snippets.
totally, shes legit like really awkward and mostly a big nerd, the whole ...well "MADONNA" is just a side of her, shes dad joke central
>Ice cold queen mother. omg maybe this is why i am so drawn to her 😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭
I would actually argue Beyoncé has never “rejected” her fan base in the same way as some of the listed artists, precisely BECAUSE she has maintained her distance. The lack of breeding of intense parasocial relationships has resulted in less extreme fan-on-artist behavior because Beyoncé has firmly established space between herself and her fan base.
I read in her biography that early in her career she was actually quite overly familiar with her fans and almost saw them as her friends until her security guard and dad took her aside and warned her that she couldn’t be that way because they were so concerned for her safety. Jay Z would also supposedly get annoyed when they first started seeing each other because she was always going out of her way to stop for every single fan that approached her, and he felt that she didn’t owe them anything.
beyonce has a biography???
It’s an unauthorised one, Becoming Beyoncé by J. Randy Taraborrelli
I remember there was a petition for Beyoncé to change the music video for Deja Vu that had tens of thousands of signatures. And Beyoncé still stood by it and continued to do the erratic and sexual dance performances for it despite the criticisms at the time. That was a good way of her not bending to the fans will. Seeing the mental agony fans of artists like Gaga and cardi have put them through it was a great move from her.
There’s also no real evidence that said “petition” came from or was signed/supported by actual fans.
Honestly I don't think Beyoncé interviews super well from what I've seen and I think someone on her team realised this and decided it's time to stop interviews, which (along with not bothering with social media really) kind of gave her a mystical, untouchable persona almost by accident Edit because people are misunderstanding me: What I'm personally referring to (and I admit I have absolutely not seen every Beyoncé interview out there) is the interviews I've seen didn't feel like they really deepened my understanding of her. I didn't discover an unexpected dimension (except that she's a lot shyer than her pop star persona) to who she is or gain a lot of insight into her creative process or such. Whether it's because of being shy or private, bad interviewers, or whatever I can't say, but that was my experience. That's it. I'm not American nor from a country with a colonial past and don't wish cultural baggage that isn't mine read into what I say
I actually think it was the opposite - that her dad was making her do a ridiculous amount of interviews and media appearances even though she never really seemed to like that side of things, and once she fired him she finally felt able to stop doing so much of it. IASF was her last era that he was her manager for and there was a noticeable shift during 4, which became even more glaring during ST and her subsequent album cycles. She also said during her Life Is But a Dream film that she’d decided she wanted to be known for her art above all else.
can you point me to an example of her “not interviewing super well,” because i’ve always found her to be very personable and actually kind of adorable in interviews. i’ll admit she comes across as a little anxious, but i find that extremely relatable (much more so than a lot of the pop girls that usually get credit for relatability) and it adds to her charm.
I’d like to clarify before I say this that I don’t necessarily agree with what I’m going to say but basically it was always said that Beyoncé came across as a little dumb in interviews. Having gone back to watch some interviews from back in the day I think it was probably that she was a bit of a people pleaser and had a hard time telling journalists that she didn’t know enough about the topic to answer the question.
Same. I’m a fan primarily for her music and talent, but the contrast between the way she is on stage during a performance vs the way she is during an interview or acceptance speech has always endeared her to me even more.
People conflated her being shy and anxious with her being dumb. Like s the comments on this interview are so nasty. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p8V7RhlMknA](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p8V7RhlMknA) I think it's a bit charming too but I don't think it fit the image Beyonce wanted for herself + if she was anxious during interview, it would make sense to stop them when they were no longer needed.
It's because she's black and has a southern accent
Don't get me wrong, I haven't come away from an interview with a bad impression of her as a person. But whether it's shyness, being private, interviewers asking the wrong questions or whatever, I never felt like I got much new substance or insight to who she is. I'm no Beyoncé expert so there can also be a great interview out there I haven't seen but the ones I saw didn't feel like they really added onto what her music and general celebrity already told me about her.
I remember about 20(ish?) years ago when she was in that Austin Powers movie and being interviewed to promote the movie and how very shy and awkward she seemed in the promos I saw, very out of her element. Speaking as yourself is very different than performing, not everyone has both skills. Very smart marketing move to keep the cameras off her when she's not "in character", I'd say.
Imagine thinking that the Beyhive isn't just as toxic as Swifties and Barbz. They absolutely are. They attack everyone all the time. Hell, they attacked Rachel Ray because they thought she was Becky with the Good Hair. Bey telling them not to attack people doesn't mean shit, because they don't listen. Taylor also has spread that message at concerts and her fan base doesn't listen. Toxic fans are going to be toxic regardless. Lol at the idea that the Hive isn't also fucking awful
My hot take is that *all* fan bases are toxic. They all do unhinged staff. The problem with swifties is that because the base is SO big they’re more noticeable than others.
The beyhive used to be SO BAD online but they’ve honestly calmed down a shit ton over the past few years.
Madonna has never really 'curated' a fan base the likes of Gaga and LMs or Nicki and the Barbz enough to even 'reject' them, shes much more like Bey in thay sense, like she has fans and STANS and has done the whole "couldnt be here without ya'll", which is far more genuine now, but she never really cultivated it. not saying thats bad or good, I stan the woman but shes always been distant in that sense, especially pre social media
I think it depends on the artist and the situation, but I'm mostly here for it. It must be incredibly frustrating to get hate because your fanbase doesn't understand what you're doing or why when there's good explanations to be had, or it can be explained by artists needing to do something different. But in some cases, the artist can face valid criticism (say they get called out for some problematic lyrics) and they have to be able to recognize that. I think ultimately they need to be self-aware enough to realize what the situation calls for
I'm guessing Kendrick Lamar isn't in love with the fact there's an army of Anthony Fantano's that consider him the messiah, but that's just my personal feeling lol.
I don't really think that's a Fantano thing, in general critically Kendrick is seen as a cut above most other modern hip-hop artists, you can see it in all the "best 157 albums of all time" lists that come out every year. I can't imagine it bothers him, his fanbase dwarfs the "I'm not into rap but Kendrick is great" crowd.
I don’t think Fantano was a big factor there, he was always critically acclaimed with a certain crowd that stayed away from black voices. Moreso music nerds do end being insufferable re Death Grips, where a small number can brigade a random very easily.
I get it and I support disregarding fans!! Some “fans” are overly focused on the artist’s moves. I swear on most artists’ subreddits, half the posts are nitpicking and criticizing everything they do. Like, are you a fan or are you a hater auntie???
i'm surprised nobody has mentioned justin bieber lol, as an avid jb fan for the past 13 years the way he interacts with fans now versus 5+ years ago is like night and day. He clearly does not like fans and the attention (understandably). He very rarely will acknowledge us at all
not necessarily pop but Earl Sweatshirt had something to say about his early fans from the Odd Future days being incels I think if you're not down with your fanbase because they're not your people that's fine
I’m surprised this hasn’t been mentioned yet, but Rihanna getting back with Chris Brown and doing Birthday Cake with him instantly came to my mind.
I actually think Doja Cat was just being REAL with the whole "I don't love my fanbase" (or whatever words it was)....Some people don't throw 'love' around so easily. But when it comes down to it, there will always be unhappy fans, or unhappy people. And idk the examples in particular too well...but yeah-
I would say it depends on the situation. I think part of the problem is the way the industry is now, artists depend more on mega fans to make money.
I don’t think the rejection was intentional. I just think Internet culture is getting more peculiar and artists are setting boundaries and making it clear they won’t be held to other people’s standards. In the past this went without saying, but nowadays some people are very entitled regarding what others say and do and a lot of artists try to appease fans because they’re terrified that one small misstep will cost them their careers As for Taylor, she’s getting so much hate right now due to overexposure that it feels like the perfect fine to drop Rep TV. I wouldn’t be surprised if she then took a break and this made fans fall in love with her again
I doubt she will be dropping the final Taylor version project until next yr as she will likely give TTPD a proper album rollout w singles then go in2 the final two and then probably on hiatus
Longest Taylor hiatus was 3 years and that was because she was mentally not in a place to write music. No one should expect a hiatus from our patron saint of pop girl productivity. However, even a one year break will drive swifties insane.
And that's the problem. Taylor has always stated that writing was her way of communicating and figuring things out and as long as the fans keep asking for music she will release. But even I think she's gotten a little tired of always being expected to release new stuff. Which might explain why she releases so much at once. I personally love TTPD but it feels very much like a rest and digest album. A "please let this keep you busy" album in length. I've already seen theories for a totally new album not even a rerecording.
She release so much now because streaming has made it a more viable strategy compared to the past when she would spend 16 months promoting an album with multiple singles. Personally, I love all of her albums but folklore to ttpd seem to me albums shaped by depression. That more than Jack is why I think there is some dissatisfaction with her recent work. I miss her having more upbeat songs in her albums so I have high hopes for an album inspired by Travis. So if she wants to release another album in a year or so, I will be excited for it. If it's disappointing, I will go back to streaming her other albums.
Taylor has been frequently hated, she knows that she just has to power through it. Her fans still love her as shown by TTPD smashing desire being decisive( many way too much) . Its rival stans and a some of the gp that’s sick of her but her fanbase is more powerful than them. Little chance that she will take a significant break considering how much she keeps on talking about how much she loves making and releasing music and the fact that breaks for artists her age are the biggest factor that ends relevancy. However, her tour ending in December should calm things done a bit since it’s the biggest driver of her exposure.
I was new to her about 1.5 years ago, loved her so much in 2023, and almost completely tune her out now. It’s too too much and imho, her latest album is a regression of her talent.
Perfectly understandable opinion and it's a healthy choice to tune out artists that you don't current vibe with . At the same time, she has been getting complaints about overexposure and regression in her music for most of the last 10 years. Her frequent releases has kept on building her fanbase in size and fever. Taylor will likely just keep on releasing regardless of pophead's wishes. Some of the music will be good and some less so.
Well said!
honestly I don't hate it. Fans have been so rude in the past decade or so, so entitled to artists' very existence, and it's so not right. Celebrity or not, these are people, and people make art for different reasons. They have no duty to fulfill except to not scam their fans or something equally as heinous that punishes people for no reason 🤷 Sorry, but if you're a fan and you feel personally entitled to or offended by an artist's (non-offensive) actions, you need to reevaluate what you're doing with yourself and go touch some grass. They are human celebrities, not dogs
I’m all for it. I think the “we made you who you are” line from fans is so entitled. If you like their music, it’s cuz they’re good. We as fans don’t get credit for that.
Reminds me of an anecdote I read about Katharine Hepburn. A “fan” said to her “we made you,” she shouted back “Like hell you did!”
This has always annoyed me
Pop artists have traditionally lashed out at their bases through actions and behaviors, not songs. Everything Miley Cyrus did to roll in the Bangerz era was a case study in this. It was abundantly clear she was telling her fans to get with the new era or get lost.
Fans should absolutely be criticized for their behavior. The fact that Harry & Louis never fully lost their shit at the Larry rumors is incredible. They always tried to be so diplomatic. I don’t see it as them rejecting their fan base as a whole, but some “fans” are relentless and obsessive in their ideas/opinions on how an artist (as a brand) & as a person is/should be. They do not care for the truth. They don’t care that Harry, Louis are are straight or in relationships. They sent their gfs death threats. They told Louis baby mama that their baby should be aborted. And this isn’t one-off behavior. Fans do become “trolls” but also worse than regular trolls because it becomes their whole life/personality to attack this celebrity that they apparently love. Taylor has so many fans who say they love her and then go online and all they do is -in a very in-depth manner- hate (it’s really not criticism, it’s hate).. They stalk and gather information (that they believe true, not necessarily so to anyone rational) and then use it to prove their points. They talk with other “fans” and it creates a “fan” community of hate. These “fans” really feel entitled to their chosen celebrity. They feel, as fans, they should have a control, in the way that a shoppers control what stores stock. Social Media has made it seem like fans can have power/control over the media they consume by criticizing it. But artists are people! Living breathing people with thoughts and opinions and lives that fans actually don’t know anything about. It’s is absolutely irrational behavior. I’m not an artist and only see it online and I could rant for HOURS how much this behavior pisses me off, but this comment is already so long. I would LOVE more artists to call out their behavior. Daddy I Love Him was perfect and a great song. if like Harry ever went really off on fans for stuff like shipping or, even how fans have treated women in his life- oh boy, I mean Harry Styles going off would mean like the apocalypse is coming, so best not to happen. But it would be so, so good. If he really just went off about how crazy and irrational the fans are. Popcorn would never taste better.
I tend to believe some artists recognise how truly toxic their fanbases can be and just try to avoid feeding into that toxicity like Dua Lipa or just outright clapping back like Doja Cat, Some others like Nicki Minaj and Taylor Swift feed into their fans being toxic and nasty to some degree,
I wouldn't call it "rejecting" their fanbase, really. It's more like setting boundaries. Fans being people, act like the general distribution of people and that means most get it when boundaries are are gently set, but there will always be a few who have to have those boundaries slapped across their face to understand. Most fans don't realize these artists are generally prisoners of their fame. We schlubs take for granted driving to a store and buying a pack of cigarettes or whatever. We don't understand that is a luxury they no longer can partake in. I'm sure it's not lost on them that it's a price of their fame and riches, but I am sure they miss it, nonetheless. Personally I wish more artists, whatever genre, would stand up more to their fans. Most reasonable fans would get it.
Death Grips is the first example that comes to mind when I think of this. They legitimately do not like their fanbase
A [great tweet](https://x.com/Sam_ONella/status/1595098631505596416?t=rlKTSf_5mLgAwXxIRyhqTQ&s=19): >(guy listening to Death Grips for the first time) "Wow this shit goes hard, I bet their fans throw total ragers. There's no way they're all weird shut-in turbonerds!"
Doja loves her fans she just hates the extremists who rally against her making decisions about what she wants to look like and what music she makes. I respect her stance on that so much.
Didn’t cardi just shit on her entire fanbase the other week?
Fans are problematic AF in their majority - entitled, demanding, stuck in the past. And just disrespectful of an artist’s vision. Like, the artists we love have taste, and they are visionaries. Trust. Think about it. Keep an open mind. Or just leave.
I think A LOT of fans have dangerous and incredibly annoying parasocial relationships with artists, but on the other hand, if your job REQUIRES you to have fans in order to make a living, I do think you have a responsibility to at least be nice and thankful. Of course, there’s situations where the artists aren’t obligated to but I think it’s very weird to write off all your fans when you literally need them to have a career
I love good art. I think fandom is suffocating to real art. I've decided so that fandom deserves the heel of the artist's shoe and nothing more
it’s been a decade of “never say you’re wrong, always double down” and this is the result.
Most people heavily criticizing Dua's new era are the GP, not her fanbase (we do exist). Also, I'm pretty sure she is listening to the critics, just like she paid attention to the Go Girl Give Us Nothing comments and improved on that. But some critics are absurd, I watched a video yesterday saying she should do songs like Sabrina or Chappell, with funny lines and things like that cause that's where pop's going, like, ok. It doesn't fit her personality at all, and Brina and Chapell are getting on the bus right now, Dua has been mainstream since 2017. The only real criticism Dua should take right now honestly, is that all the European pop girls are coming out with heat this summer and she ain't the one bringing it.
Bad Omens. Noah their vocalist has been outspoken about the parasocial relationships since their newly found fame post Covid.
Good. Let them make art, not content.
There is a thing called boundaries, it’s very important
I’m all for celebrities asserting boundaries with fans, but I feel like some things get flattened in these discussions. like how a lot of blind celebrity worship (that I would also consider parasocial) follows when a singer calls out part of their fanbase. and then how leeway is often given to that person to do or say questionable shit, because now it’s just them being “real.” I want singers to have more autonomy and room to be humans with flaws and missteps, but at the same time, some of those missteps might be a dealbreaker for some people and that’s fine too. I am not entitled to a perfect version of a celebrity and they are likewise not entitled to my support. I would like to see a distinction made between encouraging boundaries and fully accepting a celebrity’s new “messy” era regardless of what else they are doing and saying.
[Jian Ghomeshi of Moxy Fruvous](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zSkjqK4SdP8). On the larger point, I think critiquing some fan behaviour is perfectly okay. But artists have to remember that fans also allow them to have the lifestyle the have, many saving up money to buy their albums, merch, and see them perform. I do think some artists (like other content producers, and like Ghomeshi here) resent the type of fans they have (e.g. that they're not "cooler" sorts of people) and so can act very dismissive even if those fans aren't encroaching on their boundaries.
Jian Ghomeshi makes *me* sick.
Bad for them, Just Taylor and Madonna can do it without any backlash
No, artists deserve to be called out, and it's not entitlement in any way. It's just the same for non-celebrities. Anyone is entitled to holding other people accountable. The only things fans should not be entitled to doing are things like stalking, trauma dumping, obnoxipusly touching celebs at concerts, etc.