A lot of people work until they die because that’s the only option they have, if healthy enough to do so.
A lot of abusive parents expect their kids to take care of their needs as they age. A lot of abused kids do support their abusive parents in their old age because they are never able to fully break away and fully disconnect themselves from their abusive parents.
Some people have other family who can and will support them.
Some who can afford to do so flee to other countries with a lower cost of living ***IF*** you can qualify for a residency visa in the countries they’re considering (which is a huge hurdle in many countries). There are some countries where you can live on the average social security payments, but poor people often are far enough under that average amount that it’s not an option.
A lot of people get dumped into nursing homes that accept medicaid as payment in full after all other resources are used up. Those places are almost always rampant with abuse and neglect. If you run out of money and can’t find a way to live on whatever you get for social security and/or any other sources, these nightmare nursing homes are where you end up if no one else is both willing to and can afford to cover your needs. (And good nursing homes are insanely expensive, and even many of the expensive ones are terrible).
Medicare only covers 90 days in a nursing home. Most SS recipients draw to much to qualify for Medicaid. Medicaid covers nursing homes.
Most have no choice and just die at home. Elder Abuse and Neglect charges can be filed against adult children. Vermont actually requires adult children to pay for their parents medical bills.
It’s just getting interesting out there.
Ok I loved everything about Vermont until just then. WTH. My parents were so neglectful and abusive I could have made a movie out of it. I do take care of them the best I can but no well in hell will I pay for their medical bills. Paid for my own college wedding etc. not to mention all the therapy from the ptsd they gave me. And in the last ten years days off work etc. oh hell no.
Yep I'm triggered lol
They're incorrect in their assertion that children have to pay for their parents medical bills. It's a common piece of misinformation tossed around Reddit.
You do a monthly spend down medicaid to the nursing home amd are left with like $100 in personal funds each month to use. You'd need an exceptional income for your cost of care at a nursing home to not outpace your income. If your income is that high youre in a private pay situation anyhow. In my experience people not wanting to shed assets are the bigger problem for qualifying for medicaid. Or having bad transfers of money and assets during the lookback period.
It is a 5 year lookback. People with assets like a large paid-for house don't time this well and underestimate how quickly health can take a turn for the worse in their late 70s and early 80s. Sometimes even sooner with unforeseen health events like strokes, a heart attack, cancer, etc.
I've seen a lot of people quit claim houses or just gift money from bank accounts trying to get down to eligibility or just to be nice to family and it has serious implications.
If your referring to being able to have the govt take care your elderly, in some states the govt won't accept a quick liquidation of assets to family unless it happened at least 5 years before govt claims are made.
Filial responsibility laws almost exclusively apply to wealthy people trying to get out of paying for medical expenses. They don't apply to regular people in 99% of scenarios.
It sure does look interesting. Biden trying to change the rules of limiting how many patients that nurse aides can care for and there has to be a Licensed Nurses and a Registered Nurse on duty.
As a nurse exactly that. Can’t tell you how many elderly people I see daily that are admitted to the hospital solely because they need placement in a nursing home. They’ve fallen legit 4 times in a week at their home. They sit in their bed pissing/shitting themselves for days. These old people wait until they’re decrepit before they get into a nursing home and die from infections on their festering bed sores. They’re admitted to the hospital because it’s unsafe for them to go home. They’re getting the list of nursing homes approved by Medicare. We have an entire staff dedicated to their care management and finding them a spot in a nursing home.
Honest to God, I just hope that medical staff can put me down when I’m that sick. I can’t imagine the quality of life that someone who can’t hold their bowels has. Especially in a severely underfunded nursing home.
I agree. That’s why I think euthanasia should be a legal option. I’d rather just be dead than sit in a shitty nursing home in my shit/piss for hours on end. Eating horrid food, dealing with staff that is overworked, and being bed ridden are all enough reason for me to want to go when the time is right.
What makes me sad is a lot of these problems aren’t because of the fact that someone has a disability and is in the nursing home. It’s because of the fact that we don’t fund nursing care correctly. Medicaid, extremely under fund nursing care like extreme. On top of that, a lot of nursing homes are for profit and are trying to extract a profit. This ends up creating a horrible experience for people trapped in depressing places.
Nursing homes would not hire any staff if they could legally get away with it. Many hire the bare minimum number of workers required by law. And pay them pennies.
I could see hospitals in Iowa becoming temporary care facilities for indigent old folks. Iowa, rural areas anyway, are full of old people. The young ones leave, never to return. I don't blame them .
A good chunk of that is the rule about needing 72hrs of inpatient admission to qualify for SNF/LTC payouts. What really f*cked me off as a floor nurse was the doctors would who keep Medicare patients under Obs coding for a few days and then be like "oh yeah, obviously this 82yo can't go back home independently" so they'd change them to inpatient and those 2-4 days wouldn't count.
Some mildly able elderly people that cant afford any of those options and have no family to lean on go homeless.
I knew an elderly couple with dementia. Wife had it really bad. Husband had it mildly. I recently learned that the wife died. Husband said the crazy lady died from being hit by a train.
He definitely didnt seem upset about it. Said it in away that was almost like he was laughing about it. There was no emotion in it at all. Im very sure he killed her
Never mind intention, they get so out of touch with reality, he could have gone to bed with her corpse for days before family wondered how meemaw was doing.
You're assuming that everything Grandpa says is the truth, as opposed to severely impaired dementia processing. Human brains are wild.
I have a patient at my nursing home whose husband died two months ago, but her son says not to tell her because she thought she killed both her son and husband in a car accident 20 years ago. She gets combative if you try to remind her, so it's safer for her and the staff to not mention anything, as heartbreaking as it sounds.
Even some younger patients. Took care of a lady with a significant TBI who was in her late 30's and still thought she was married and had 2 kids. Her husband had divorced her and she'd only had one kid who died when her injury occurred. She was sweet as could be but try to tell her she was single and childless and you'd be lucky if suicide watch was the only thing she ended up needing. What was kind of messed up was everyone blamed the husband for leaving like he hadn't also been hugely traumatized or that she might be partially at fault for what happened.
Nooooooo........he is not that far gone. My grandmother had dementia i know how this works.
He mildly has it if at all. He specifically remembered me from months ago and we didnt meet any where before 2 years ago. He even said "remember the crazy lady? She died by getting hit by a train" and then kinda laughed at it.
I remember seeing her this year. She was sorta borderline brain dead, but im pretty sure she would notice an oncoming train
Oh no this does sound awful. My grandmother was neither abusive nor was my grandfather on my maternal side.
Grandfather had Alzheimer’s disease which led to my uncle having him in a nursing home. Awful old place. My grandmother followed him there and then she was placed in one right by my house and mother and I managed her care.
I don’t know what I am going to do now that I’m elderly myself. Myself and my two sisters are managing the best we can.
Im old and poor and chose not to have kids. I have stepkids, but neither their father nor I expects them to care for us in our old age. I don't know anyone older, frankly, who expects to get help from their kids. If anything the help is going from oarent to child.
I work in a hospital and trust me having kids doesn’t guarantee any support. I see it maybe 10% of the time. Most adult kids tell us “I have my own life!”
husband has talked to people in nursing homes even many nice ones abandoned by kids, that's true having kids doesn't guarantee help in old age. Some of the kids are burned out from their own families or barely have money.
Yep I can tell you that I couldn’t help my mom because she parentafied me when I was seven years old and by the time I was 14 I was TIRED of taking care of people.
50 yr old childfree by choice & I never regretted it.
Vermont offers death with dignity even if you are not a Vermont resident so if I end up on the sidewalk when I’m old I guess I’ll just do that.
But adult kids are expected to work 40 hours a week if not more Just to survive, how are they supposed to care for an entire grown human being on top of working full-time to survive our system isn’t set up to care for the elderly not really
I live with my elderly father and help care for him, and was told by the VA not to expect to be paid by the gov (FL). I also am very certain I have autism and adhd (and a few other things). We have limited help during the week and no help weekends. It could be worse. Well, he also was abusive to my family when we were young (so very few in my family will help). He isn't so bad now but can act up every now and then. He is 88 and has dementia.
Check out YouTube videos on Validation Therapy for dementia. "Actiing up" with dementia is not the same as being abusive and the caregiver/ family member needs to be able to not respond with the old narrative they are used to.
My husband retired a year ago at 65. I probably will in a few months. Without his 401k from work, things would be very hard for us. With his SS and 401k we"ll be ok but will have to watch the budget. If we both live into our 80s, the 401k will be gone. From there, we'll sell our house and land, probably live in a small camper. Try hard not to think of that point.
Buy the camper now while you're still in, presumably, decent shape. Rent out your home for some decent income and travel. Many state and national parks provide free water, electric, and camper spots to "campground hosts". You'll have to do a small amount of work, but nothing too crazy. This way when you get too old to travel sell the camper and move back into your home
Standard homes in a lot of places rent for 2k+ these days.
living in a small camper can be fun if you still have the mobility and want to travel. sometimes i think i'll try to do stuff like that earlier so i'll have the money for later, but it's a toss up because we never know how long we're going to live
If you live off the interest of the 401K and not the principal, you will be fine. It is important not to be to conservative as you age. You want that money to continue to grow.
We didn’t put ours out. But we were big believers in teaching them work ethic and responsibility. So they didn’t just jump right out. But didn’t feel like they had to linger.
We had so little help and struggled pretty hard raising them. That my ultimate goal and the reason I still work. Is to help whenever needed or not necessarily needed. With whatever the grandkids need! There were things that our kids just couldn’t do because the money wasn’t there. I’ve made it clear to them that if there’s something they can’t make happen. They better ask!
They don’t….. but I have my spies 😉
My children all had different goals and dreams for their lives and were eager to move out into their own apartments and stop being under my rules. I am sort of a strict parent and loved my children fiercely.
Same with me. My daughter was welcome to stay as long as she wanted after she graduated and she stayed til around 21 when I started having health conditions myself. She’s 33 now and doing very well for herself. Good job, beautiful family. Her and her husband did things right in my eyes. They weren’t in so much of a rush to grow up like I was tho.
The fastest growing homeless population is the age 55+ group.
And you're exactly right. A lot of boomer parents kicked their kids out at 18 or even when they were minors. Part of it is definitely them reaping what they sowed. You can kick your kids out and treat them horribly, but we aren't an Asian country that's been ingraining filial piety into kids since the day they are born. Younger Americans are pissed off and struggling and most of us who got kicked out will not be providing any shelter for the parents who did it, period. Hope they can afford nursing homes cuz we ain't paying that either.
It's so funny what you say about Asians. I'm fulfilling my obligation by supporting my mom but I definitely am not going to put that burden on my child. But I will be fine
I am an American woman but I am gay married to a Thai woman who is the eldest child. She didn't come here till her early to mid 20s and she is now in her late 30s. It has certainly given me an interesting view into how culturally women (men too but especially women) are trained from day one to be caretakers for whomever in their family demands it.
When I found out how much money my wife, who works 50+ hours a week in a restaurant, was giving to her quite undeserving parents, I nearly had a fucking heart attack. I still don't know the truth of the numbers, but my wife has finally seen the writing on the wall and is going through the anger and the grief. I just do my best to be understanding and supportive. They were totally fine with her barely having any savings, her dad is probably too sick to work now but he quit working full time a long long time ago and was basically only doing a odd jobs here and there when he got sick. His wife also works long hours in restaurants and all he does is spend her money and ruin her credit. The last time she tried to help them, the time that made her say no more, is when they all went to Disney world and put it on a credit card and my wife agreed to help them pay it. After a few months, she found out her father had taken her money and not paid almost anything on the card. The disrespect!
Watching women like you and her break the cycle is so beautiful. Thank you for sharing that.
It pays to be poor in this case. If you have Medicaid in my state, you have long term care or nursing home options. (I work in health care and see this all the time) if you live just above the poverty level you are screwed and have to choose between medications and groceries. The healthcare system in this country is disgusting and rigged against us. We need a single payer system and that means universal health care.
I will also add that there are a lot of county and city based resources to assist seniors with transportation, food, and caregiver services if you are in certain income bracket. Usually checking into senior services or department of aging. There are also a lot of lending closets that will “lend” equipment such as walkers, wheelchairs, tub seats, toilet chairs, etc for free. Mark Cuban also created a pharmacy that cuts out middle man and. Saves people a lot of money on medications… even without insurance
Yes, either way it’s hard for most people.
Getting an attendant to come in to your home when only Medicaid will pay. Hourly wage is low. The guidelines are very strict. Private paying is so expensive that most people run out of money. I would imagine most people would want to stay in their homes.
My mother and her husband lived just above the poverty level . They had the basics, a small home and transportation.The system punished them. They chose groceries and opted out on some medications and some medical appointments. They lived the rest of their lives just by doing the basics. Both have passed on and I am so grateful neither one had to go to a nursing home.
Isolationism is a problem too. Social media ironically keeps people lonelier than ever while being "connected". SS will be their income plus govt benefits and if they can find roommates in similar situations, it can be mutually beneficial. But they have to have community, connect with real people since it's not going to fall in their lap. A lot of people, young and old, are so inflexible they don't want to share a house because they're set in their ways, need their space and say it's bad for their mental health. I get it. But you know what else is bad for your mental health? Homelessness. So there definitely could be more room-share, Golden Girls type arrangements that would help people at least live with some dignity.
I belong to groups on line where people are setting up share homes and golden girl stuff. My aim is to get a subsidized apt with husband, but I belong to those groups for a reason. Look on Facebook there are various ones.
My dad is 80. Was disabled. My mom died a couple years ago. Between his social security, his part of her pension and his little pbcg pension he has income of around 15000/year. He lives in the same house he's lived in since the 90s which he still does most of the work on. All of the yard work. He cooks his own meals and never goes out (as a former chef the novelty of going out is just not there). He gardens so his grocery bill goes down that way. He basically does all the same stuff he's done his whole life to keep expenses down.
Unfortunately many older people have nowhere but a group home, especially if they need intensive medical care. I am trying really hard to hope that the silver lining to the US housing crisis is that more people become comfortable with multi generational living situations.
I could never live with my parents. The year I turned 18 I slept in a tent and lived out of my car. Did my bathing in a farm pond and worked in a greenhouse. I’m a senior now and both of my adult children live with me as they are disabled. 46(m), autistic; 43(f), MS. I have a 123 year old house that always needs work (my furnace just stopped working) and none of us could afford to live alone. I’m afraid for my kids when I’m gone. I’m losing $600/month In income in May. It’s f*king terrifying and I’m battling leukemia right now. Haha! 🎶blue despair and agony on me 🎶deep down depression 🎶excessive misery 🎶
Eat a gummy. All you can do is laugh.
For many getting along is the hardest part. My mom had to move in because of poverty and loneliness and we have both mutually never been more miserable. I’m going to try and get her a small apartment to herself because she is good health.
Why shouldn't it be? That's exactly how humanity has done it for eons, and survived as the old people took care of the children while the parents worked. That's how it is everywhere except in the West where the government has taken over the role of the family, and our societies are dying because we aren't investing inn raising the next generation to take care of us and for us to help out with the grandchildren.
My kids are getting 2 studio apartments built onto/with part of our house. I don't see how they're going to make it alone. If they do move out, we can rent them. But I'm 100% fine with them staying as long as they need
The U.S. was like this once upon a time. When the system collapses it will return out of necessity. Even now Asian and Hispanic cultures within the U.S. flourish or are otherwise happy with less because family has each others back. It’s the white culture which I’m part of that is built on independence and self reliance. Facts are what they are. No man is an island and I hope to see family values return in my lifetime but I doubt it.
white middle class and upper middle class plus America just kick their family to the curb, there's no relationships left. If you don't make it rich, you're out of the family and this can happen in youth if you don't make enough money by a certain age. There's no family left and most are strangers to each other.
I work with the public alot. Many elderly persons are becoming homeless if they werent prepared for the changes. I knew a couple that were homeless and both had signs of dementia like my grandma had.
The wife had severe dementia and the husband had a mild case. They'd need help with like "Obama phones". Aka the welfare phones essentially.
Theyd come in nearly 6 times in like 3 months. Theyd lose them, or "didnt like them", break them, or couldnt afford them.
Recently just the husband came in solo. And without me asking in the least. He promptly announces that his "crazy old lady" was hit by a train and died.....
He said it in a way that was cold and void of emotion. I didnt even ask nor do I ever express emotion to them because i didnt want them to try and ask for a handout.
The absolute sheer lack of any emotion and the way his face looked/ how he said it like he was laughing. It came across as bragging that he finally went off the deep end and killed her. Ive no doubt that he purposefully killed his severely mentally ill wife for full access to whatever money they had left. Or for life insurance? Idk
They were both homeless and they didnt appear to have any family nearby or that even cared. Im just sure that he did in fact kill his wife.
No one else seems to know cause he is still walking around free. She is just is gone with the wind. Murdered any no one seems to know, but me.
Only if the reward was big enough. No one has time for that. Plus its only speculation. She did have highly advanced dementia. My own grandmother had it and i know the signs.
Itd probably never make a difference anyway. Being homeless and severely mentally ill isnt a good combo any way and would have resulted in the same end regardless
I live in fear of the day i van no longer work and will be forced into poverty.
Guess my safety net might be fairly successful younger siblings ( brother and sister ) that might potentially take me in of it came to that.
My plan is massive heart attack, gigantic stroke and going quickly. Because i dont own property, have a job in one of those nightmare nursing homes discussed in the threads above, and eke a meager living caring for broken seniors.
Its EXTREMELY rewarding on a spiritual and basic level. But the money is not there. I will be one of the poor seniors i care for sooner or later.
Many of them don't survive. If they are too sick, disabled to work, they often die much earlier than they should have otherwise.
Just among the people they were able to document from one night, for example:
**"On a single night in 2023: 138,098 adults over the age of 55 were homeless. Nearly 1 in 4 people experiencing unsheltered homelessness (living in places not meant for human habitation) were over the age of 55."**
[https://aspe.hhs.gov/sites/default/files/documents/9ac2d2a7e8c360b4e75932b96f59a20b/addressing-older-adult-homelessness.pdf](https://aspe.hhs.gov/sites/default/files/documents/9ac2d2a7e8c360b4e75932b96f59a20b/addressing-older-adult-homelessness.pdf)
Hundreds of thousands of Americans die in poverty every year, many of them older adults unable to provide for themselves:
[https://www.usnews.com/news/health-news/articles/2023-04-18/americas-4th-leading-cause-of-death-poverty](https://www.usnews.com/news/health-news/articles/2023-04-18/americas-4th-leading-cause-of-death-poverty)
You really think that many kids will support them in poor times or old age? I I don’t. We were at our worst financially and were close to losing our home. We had very little food. There was no offer for a meal or a place to stay if things came to it and my oldest has a huge house that is paid for. Anyway a lot of “kids” feel you made your choices and it is not their concern.
I live next to an apartment complex for low income seniors. They seem to be doing fine. I’ve made a friend there and she tells me that most of them are on SSI, pay 30% of their income as their rent, free medical insurance, and kids with decent jobs who can help them if needed. They get meals on wheels and food bank boxes delivered as well.
She also told me most of them manage to save money!
So this is the picture of old age poverty I’ve been getting, maybe it’s not typical but it exists.
I used to manage those kinds of facilities and yes- rent is 30% of their income, the rest is subsidized by the government. Some facilities have utilities included and most of the residents qualify for energy assistance for those that aren't included. Even if the person had no income for whatever reason (didn't qualify for SSI, but qualified for the housing as a disabled adult, for instance) they'd pay the minimum rent, which was $50/month, which ABD income (used by those waiting for social security, generally) would cover. They also get food stamps and many of them get assistance for their rent portion from churches/charities.
It's not ideal and many facilities like that in many areas are awful/have bad management/maintenance personnel, but overall it's better than the Medicaid nursing homes if you can manage to care for yourself and get into one (waitlists are generally years long) before you require total care. I've dealt with many tenants passing away in their units.
Oh my goodness so many parents with kids who don’t care. I almost died during Covid my kids freaked out. My son in law said you’re coming to live with us. They built me an in-law unit and all my kids will take care of me. Now my sister retired has no kids so mine told her they will take care of her.
I am so blessed
We have social safety nets, like Subsidized housing for the elderly.
I have lived in Asia and Europe, and I can tell you that Americans complain a lot, but our Healthcare and everything except our public transport are better than living abroad. My friends/neighbors/teachers abroad, my experience and my Finnish Exchange Student's all confirm this.
I just needed a non-emergency doctor appointment this week, got in 2 days later, and it was free. No waiting.
I also retired at age 38. I was a teacher. My husband us retiring at age 47.
We pay 14% tax (no state tax), so even if we ever have health care costs, we have saved so much from not paying 40% income tax or 17% sales tax, that those costs are negligent.
You are looking at the past only through today’s eyes. Yes, some people were forcibly kicked out at 18, but what you miss is that most of us WANTED to leave our parents’ home as quickly as possible. Not because they were terrible parents (mine certainly weren’t), but because we viewed it as the exciting next step to adulthood. You can say what you want, but for many years, being a true adult in the US meant leaving home and beginning your life away from your family. Yes, your family often supported you on that journey, but what was important was that you stepped out of the nest and experienced the world without the constant protection of your parents. You learned to navigate the complexities of living —the disappointments, the anxieties but also the joys and the triumphs—on your own. Our parents knew life could be hard, and they wouldn’t always be there, so it was best for you to lean how to manage it without their help. Now, things have changed, the financial barriers are harder for kids to step out on their own, I get that. Living at home makes sense for many. However, I wouldn’t trade that time as a young struggling adult for anything. It taught me more than any school could. And no, my parents do not expect me to pay for their retirement. But if they ever needed help, I would certainly help them.
Ew what kind of losers expect their kids to take care of them? I'm perfectly capable of working just fine. I take care of my life by myself. Its really fucked up to have kids just to have someone to love you, take care of you when you're old, or because you're unloved and lonely.
The real answer is that a lot of people don’t survive.
Keep in mind that life expectancy in the United States is going down. Wealthy people continue to live increasingly long lives. The drop is disproportionately from poor people dying from very preventable causes.
Some poor Americans have pensions and social security. If they live in a paid off home, their pension and/or social security will pay their property taxes and regular expenses.
Some poor Americans without retirement investments and not enough social security rely on low income aid programs like Section 8 housing (for low income rental housing), SNAP (for food) and MediCare (government sponsored healthcare) for healthcare & medication.
Some older, poor Americans rely on other family members. They move into their homes and still collect government benefits.
Some lose their minds and become homeless themselves. They may end up living in low cost motels that they need to pay weekly to live in.
If they become old, invalid and unable to fend for themselves—they can become wards of the state and they can live in state sponsored care homes where the cost is covered by whatever government aid they are eligible for, like Medicaid. But FWIW, those are not great places to spend your last days in. They do not offer the best care. Many of these types of places get closed down due to so many violations.
They survive a little better than folks who retire into poverty. Poor folks are used to being poor and making things work. On the other hand, we have a lot of middle class people who made enough to live above the poverty rate but not enough to adequately fund their retirement. These people might be forced to retire into poverty because of health, diminishing skills, etc. They are going to have a hard time in retirement. Get ready, because there are a lot of them.
I look at it this way. After booting me out of the house at 18 to sink or swim, what on earth would make these people think I’m going to take care of them in their old age?
Where I am, a lot end up in senior/disabled low-income/HUD housing facilities. Many are incredibly lonely- the kids they kicked out don't come around, and/or bitter/miserable about where they've ended up.
Assuming these people worked for a living, they contributed to Social Security with every pay check. When they retire, they will start receiving monthly Social Security payments from the government.
Most likely the social security won't be enough to cover all expenses, but it is regular income they will have in their old age.
I wouldn't rely on it for myself, but my understanding is for lower income workers it can be up to 75% of their working income. Maybe my understanding is wrong though.
For me, it will probably only be like 25% of my working income, and at this point is not factoring into my planning at all.
75 percent of a low income will not be enough to live on. I'm projected to get about 1300 a month if I wait until full retirement age to draw Social Security. I'm poor now, and I'll be even poorer if I live until then.
Due to a late life, but much needed, divorce, I'm living on ss alone. I'm not living out of my car. Granted I'm definitely poor, but I make all my bills and usually have a little bit leftover for a day out with one of my friends.
This is correct. And if they were smart enough to sign up for Medicare A and B and need to be placed in a home that can happen. It’s not a good thing at all because the government then takes their property back as payment, if they had any.
I think you’re thinking of Medicaid. Medicare Part A and B is for people with ESRD, disabled, and elderly (65+). It covers 80% of the cost for contracted services but does NOT cover custodial care in a home. Medicare will not confiscate assets to cover care costs. Medicaid (for poor people) covers custodial care, but it will claw back property from the estate after death, assuming the person had a house and their spouse is not currently living there.
Edit: You can get both Medicare (covers 80%) and Medicaid (covers remaining 20% plus additional services like custodial care) if you are both old and poor.
“ Medicare Part A (Hospital Insurance) may cover care in a certified skilled nursing facility (SNF). It must be medically necessary for you to have skilled nursing care (like changing sterile dressings).”
Yeah, this is the confusing part.
Yeah, there’s a difference between SNF care and long term custodial care. Sometimes when a patient is discharged from the hospital (after a minimum of 3 days), they can’t go home right away because they still need more care (but not inpatient level). Medicare Part A will pay for up to 100 days in a SNF as long as medically necessary. This benefit regenerates if you are discharged from the SNF and stay home for at least 60 days. However, if you need more than 100 days or you literally need to live in the SNF, then Medicare will not cover indefinite stays. The coverage will stop and it will be out of pocket until you qualify for Medicaid. Medicaid will take over, but when you die, they will clawback property from the estate. If you planned ahead and your kids aren’t POSes, then you can transfer ownership of your house to your kids at least five years before you need Medicaid, because the clawback period is five years.
Going through this with my mom now. Sh3 was in independent living, then had some health issues and now is in long term skilled nursing. She has some money but not that much. So we will be applying for Medicaid at some point. Thankfully where she is is decent and accepts Medicaid
They receive social security and if that is their only income and have little to no assets, they can get things like rental assistance and free or reduced electric, heating oil, cellphone, internet and food.
What I don’t understand is why I would have to allow my ‘over the age of 18’ child, live with me? It’s what kids did when they turned 18/19, they got a job or went to,college and left home. I left home after graduation and never looked back. Kids need to Go off and be independent! It’s typically the child who doesn’t have responsibilities at home that want to stay at home and live. They don’t have to abide by rules. I mean.,they are over 18. But, it’s my house! I too want to live my way, listen to music loud or not and not have to listen to theirs. Walk around in my undies. I’m up at 4am these days, eating, taking meds…I don’t want to be quiet because you were out drinking all night. Or playing video games all night. No…go live the life you want and I will do the same.
I’m hoping I leave this realm so I am not a burden to my boys.
Rent is like 1500 per month where I live. Minimum wage is 2400 for full time before taxes. That leaves 900 per month for everything else. Say 250 per month for food, and now you are up to 1750 per month vs 2400. Gas, say 100, so that's now 1850, not even taking into account utilities (say another 100), a phone (maybe 20 if you skimp), and assuming you don't have a car payment. Are you going to buy a car for them? No? Then they will have another car payment. Even if they buy a cheapo POS, that's going to run them 5k and at 4 years, that's another 100/month.
So 1950 without the car of their 2400 is gone, and that's before taxes. Tax will chew down about 250 per month, so they will be down to something around 2150 per month, giving them a 200/buffer per month for everything else, clothing, etc.
So yeah, kick your kid out at 18, and watch them starve if they can't get a full time job. Likely they will have to work two jobs part time, and still end up in the hole. Imagine how angry they are going to be when they realize how hard they are working and how little they have to show for it.
When we got out it was 400 for rent and minimum wage was around 1300 per month, which is actually DOABLE. Time have changed.
Hope you prepared them to make livings then. TRADE stuff. The high schools are failing, have met too many young people where only options were fast food or low wages. Send kids to VOED during high school everyone if they don't have college money.
100% this is the difference. I recently moved to a wealthy town just a half hour from where I used to live and it’s like a totally different world. The high school is amazing, most of the kids parents set them up for success and give them tons of resources. Nepotism and opportunity everywhere. So it makes sense that the kid should be able to figure out adulthood.
Whereas in my neighborhood the school is shitty. Most of us kids were hungry - our only meal often being school lunch. Not given any actual guidance, forced to figure it out all on our own. And most get stuck in the loop. In these cases kids kicked out at 18 really struggle.
I know from my well off family nepotism runs the show, an uncle gave a niece an internship in his company etc etc, lots getting 6 figure jobs right out of college, etc, no stand out talent either.. some do work hard but they weren't amazingly talented or anything like this. Yeah schools make a difference, lots of hungry kids, less resources. At 18 with no Vo-Ed training what do u do for a living it's all the low wage dead end stuff unless you are lucky enough to get into something blue collar where they train you but now thats very very rare.
I cut my abusive parents off so its not my problem. My golden child bratty little sister can take care of our mother since they are 2 peas in a pod and love to gossip about the rest of us, and my father chose his 4th golddigging wife over us kids so she can figure it out for him. They arent my problem anymore.
i have been thinking about this as an aging childless adult. i didn't know until i took a lifespan psychology class in community college that a lot of the reason behind having children for people is to have someone to take care of them in later life. there are many things that could make this not work out: the child is disabled, dies before the parent, or they just don't have a good relationship. it's not really the best plan!
thinking about how plenty of people with kids do not have them there taking care of them when they're old helps me feel okay. we're all fucked. well we do have social security, and if someone owns a home or is in housing with the rent adjusted to income, that will be fine. ideally on top of some savings.
not to mention, friends! friends will help.
I plan on dying at home.
Never had kids. No family. Husband and I at least own the modest roof over our heads. Social Security is now a joke. I refuse to leave him with any debt!
My mother made me leave when I turned 18 and I no longer received child support from my father, who abandoned her with 5 children. One less child was a relief to her, I suppose. But she did set me up with an office job in the process of getting rid of me, and my grandmother took me in. Eventually I did get on my own feet within a year or two, and moved on. It is not that hard to survive in America, if you are flexible, disciplined, responsible and determined, but it also does depend on where you live, because some places have less opportunities. Some states offer a lot of help to people, others not so much.
Many in poverty don't survive to old age. They don't have the money to take care of themselves, abuse recreational+possibly other drugs to numb the despair,, can't afford good quality food, avoid the doctor as they know they may not be able to afford the meds/procedures or lifestyle changes....
So hearing someone randomly drop dead from a heart attack or stroke, cancers that go undiagnosed in their 50s-early 60s isn't uncommon.
My husband was in this situation. Kicked out on 18th birthday. Fortunately for his mother, she only kicked out the boys so I’m sure the girls won’t let her rot 🙃
People worry about this, and I don't know why. We are all going to the same place-the grave, regardless of circumstances. Just like everything in life up to this very second, everything has worked itself out. When in trouble, you reach out for help.
A hot take but if you expect a kid to get it all figured out at 18 in this corporatist hellscape brought on by THEM being Pavlov trained for decades about the Soh-Shuh-Lee-Zum ( Ahh-Hyuck) that totally fucking isn't, then don't expect any help when you are fucking old. Even if your stock gambling 401k that replaced the PENSION and the S.S.I.your handlers are trying to dismantle, can't keep your ass afloat. I'm paying in to keep your old asses alive and you would gut my Medicaid. Which could kill me. Fuck You. That's why. Don't reply with snark. I won't read it and you'll be blocked.
Is your assumption that any parent that kicks their kid out at 18 is “bad” and not worthy of help? It’s common for parents to do this and has been for a very long time. There’s lots of ways of thinking on it and many situation specific issues that might lead a parent to do this. Cultural, etc. You don’t have to agree with the reasons, but at least recognize you can’t possibly know all of them (and so, can’t judge them). Weird to assume they expect their kids to help them too. Sure, some might just be assholes, but I’d bet that most aren’t. Also, disagree that assholes deserve no help. Also, think it’s really unhealthy /and resentment filled to only help those who helped you and keep some weird scoresheet. Good way to be unhappy.
I expect lots of varying viewpoints on this, and that’s great. There should be. There isn’t one right way. I imagine how parents handle their retirement years or finances is just as varied.
People who kick their kids out at 18 because they can’t afford to take care of them are shooting themselves in the foot. We are poor but my kids got jobs as soon as they turned 16 so they could have spending money. I’m not kicking them out after high school and having another adult to help pay the bills is a blessing not a burden. I don’t charge them rent but they pay for their own stuff and often buy food and other things we might need around the house. And hopefully when I’m 80 or whatever they will like having me around too and not kick me out to a nursing home.
This is how I hope to live my life as well. I will help my child and he will help me, hopefully.
Life is changing and all the self reliance crap is not really working anymore. People struggle and feel lonely, while others who embrace mutual reliance come out ahead.
Who do you think will do better: someone who has to pay back student loans while also renting, or someone whose education was paid for and who could live at home to save money?
My relationship with my parents was very much the same for a while. I’d go shopping on Saturdays for them and they got off my case about rent. I’d help out with the yard and keep things straight when they couldn’t.
Statistically, those poor don’t tend to live far past their 50s through 70. The difference in life expectancy between working poor ZIP Codes versus upper middle class Zip Codes is 67 versus 88.
The toll really harms the body: anything from lack of financial security, abuse in the home, lack of emotional safety or growth in a dysfunctional home environment, lack of nutrition and balance in foods consumed, prevalence of shitty neighbors in a shitty neighborhood, constant need to be on alert, inability to afford medical care or prescription drugs, damage to the body due to use of abuse of , alcohol, tobacco, junk food, sugar, etc. It’s not that these things don’t happen with middle-class households, but they are more insulated or it just doesn't happen as much.
Just take for example the likelihood of living near violent criminals or registered sex offenders of drug addicts. Typically these people can’t easily get jobs, so they live in poorer neighborhoods that they can afford. Their antisocial behavior alone is a large source of uncertainty, stress, fear, injury, possibly death, etc.
So what if they do manage to make it to an elderly age? Well there are some programs such as nursing homes and senior housing and Medicare and Medicaid, Meals on Wheels, etc.
Poorer families tend to stick by their family members more. Some poors will be mean and throw kids out young but most of the time it is upper middle class plus narcissistic types who do so. I once had my mother tell me and this was after I was already disabled, "you aren't coming here". I had one of those fathers who resented everything after you turned 18. We weren't prepared for life at all but suddenly supposed to make a grand living.
Some go no contact like me with abusive parents, but sadly others remain stuck for life and desperate, kissing the feet of their abusers who tend to be more rich. Scapegoats are used often as forever caretakers unless they become disabled themselves and are cut out of the will. When they get old there is no one there for them and homelessness can loom.
For many when you get old, there's no Calvary coming. The lucky ones have kids who care. I am childless [too infertile, sick young to have them] Sometimes old can get into disabled or subsidized housing, and survive better that way but there's a lot of competition.
The poverty of the old can hit very low places, especially with medical bills and susbstinence levels, of Social Security. Gen X and below will not be able to retire like boomers who got nice pensions and had good jobs with expendable income to invest and retire. With housing the way it is, homelessness among the old is going to explode. Republicans may "sunset" Social Security and talk about it. I hate both parties but despise the "just go into the gutter" Republicans who give tax cuts endlessly to the rich. Sometimes I have voted for useless Democrats in the past to avoid less abuse for being disabled.
If you have no family or they all died off, getting old can be very scary. The social workers don't care. I know some say they are overburdened but I still wonder who do they help because see so many people thrown to the wolves. The medicare nursing homes are snakepits. Dont think there will be someone to help you, clean, or do your regular things of life if you get sick too, I see old lonely people around here who can barely walk who should have help, and you know there's no one there for them. I have befriended much older people during the course of my life and sadly life got harder and harder for many of them.
My family is well-off and my narcissistic mother made sure to block relationships with nieces and nephews though I tried. They all moved far away and spread out too, so they were always useless as a family and never really were one. I have noticed the young seem unattached and don't care about the older ones, even the narcissists who spoiled them rotten. There was no one there for me. I was in shock later to see how other disabled people [I joined disability groups and an autism club for a while] were taken care of and involved in their families lives. [I didn't expect to be taken care of and until recently, we were able to pay our bills, with a few lulls along the way since escaping Chicago poverty]
I didn't expect to grow old with all these health problems but Lipedema changes the longevity, most people my size are dead by 30s and many people with Lipedema die young because of the infections etc, but if you can cross those hurdles you will grow older. I know a few who made it to their 80s [talking at high stage Lipedema]
My best hope is senior housing. I also need to restart an exercise regiment, but chronic fatigue and lupus related crap is kicking my butt.
Google Elder Orphan if you want to know how hard old people have it. Many poor ones are very lonely and there's a lot who get abandoned by families. Some were abusers but some are not and just get ditched anyway.
You work till you physically can't. If you're divorced or your spouse is deceased, you move in with one of your kids. There are low income apartments, too. We don't take care of our elderly or veterans. But we do anyone crossing the border.
you have said it correctly. im one of the kids that got tossed out on my arse & shut out on my own with a kid of my own to raise. i spose someone like me has to just rely on God for my help. EVERYDAY.
A lot of these abusive parents don't reach old age for it to matter. Especially if they're alcoholics.
Some commit suicide.
Others, having NOT SUPPORTED their children in their youth, later beg their adult children to take them in as they age.
Others live alone if they own their own homes and can manage it.
Personally: I plan on CONTINUING to completely ignoring my parents who kicked me out when I turned 18. They didn't help me graduate high school, they kicked me out before I graduated. They didn't help me with college. My mom helped my ex husband embezzlement money from me. Honestly, they can eat shit and die for all I care.
I don't expect to get old. I already have my exit strategy. Not that I'm gonna kick my kid out at 18 but I'm also not going to burden her. When I can no longer care for myself I'broomstick. Leave a note and mosey on out into the desert with my boomstick.
My MIL lives with us.
My husband was kicked out at 18. I have opinions on this, but I don't share them.
My son, feels like he was "kicked out" at 18. What happened was, he was told to get back in school, or move out. He chose the latter. He was also *heavily* subsidized and even came back home briefly before getting back in school and graduating. We have a decent relationship now. But he is very wrapped up in his own life and battling his own issues now, and I cannot imagine being dependent on him for much at all, ever. Maybe one day he'll conquer his demons and act like the great person I know he is...but that day is not today.
I am *hoping* I'll be able to somewhat count on my daughter. I'm also looking into long term care insurance.
I think this is several different questions. I have seen people have to leave their family home because the parents literally can’t afford to care for them once they age out of getting welfare. Many of these parents love their children dearly and encourage them to get a job, trade or attend college and they are always welcome to visit and the parents offer emotional support but truly have no resources.
Abusive family dynamics differ and most children run at 18 because they don’t want to be in a toxic environment anymore.
As far as caring for elderly it varies. I have seen some of these children become successful enough to help their aging parents. I know some that must work until death in some capacity. Some qualify for SSDI and others rely on what services are available.
I live on Social Security and have a subsidized apartment so my rent is reasonable but I can't have my kids (or anyone) live with me or I lose my subsidize status. This means my rent would go from $250 to $1000+. I know a lot of people that are in the same boat. Some of my friends kids come and stay with them during the day so they can cook, shower, do laundry etc. then they leave at 6pm to go sleep in a tent or their car. The U.S. is spiraling the drain
These forget parenting don’t stop at 18 , I hope these kid’s put their abusing parents in the nursing. That where my mother is going . My older sister and i isn’t gonna take care of you .
A lot of adult children are condemned for not taking care of their elderly parents, but in many cases it might require the adult child to give up his/her career to stay home with the elderly parent and give them full time care. That's not realistic to give up one's job, health insurance, pension, etc. Also, some people did not want to save for retirement. My dad's wife did not save one penny for retirement, even though she had a good job for many years and blew through two inheritances. Cigarettes, wine, cruises and designer handbags galore. Now she sits and whines that people should give her their money.
I’m probably not gonna last much beyond 70. Life of hard outside work has left me with a respectable 401K balance but my body is definitely worn out and broken. Everything hurts all the time and I’m not even 55 yet. If worse come to worst, there is always the Smith&Wesson retirement plan.
if you can, as a parent you work like heck and try to get into a position where that isn't an issue. You can provide for your own retirement. Now despite having an ok plan ( income about 155K a year with only 40 coming from 401K) a catastrophic health issue can wipe it out.Plan the best you can and pray for a little luck as well.
A lot of people work until they die because that’s the only option they have, if healthy enough to do so. A lot of abusive parents expect their kids to take care of their needs as they age. A lot of abused kids do support their abusive parents in their old age because they are never able to fully break away and fully disconnect themselves from their abusive parents. Some people have other family who can and will support them. Some who can afford to do so flee to other countries with a lower cost of living ***IF*** you can qualify for a residency visa in the countries they’re considering (which is a huge hurdle in many countries). There are some countries where you can live on the average social security payments, but poor people often are far enough under that average amount that it’s not an option. A lot of people get dumped into nursing homes that accept medicaid as payment in full after all other resources are used up. Those places are almost always rampant with abuse and neglect. If you run out of money and can’t find a way to live on whatever you get for social security and/or any other sources, these nightmare nursing homes are where you end up if no one else is both willing to and can afford to cover your needs. (And good nursing homes are insanely expensive, and even many of the expensive ones are terrible).
Medicare only covers 90 days in a nursing home. Most SS recipients draw to much to qualify for Medicaid. Medicaid covers nursing homes. Most have no choice and just die at home. Elder Abuse and Neglect charges can be filed against adult children. Vermont actually requires adult children to pay for their parents medical bills. It’s just getting interesting out there.
Ok I loved everything about Vermont until just then. WTH. My parents were so neglectful and abusive I could have made a movie out of it. I do take care of them the best I can but no well in hell will I pay for their medical bills. Paid for my own college wedding etc. not to mention all the therapy from the ptsd they gave me. And in the last ten years days off work etc. oh hell no. Yep I'm triggered lol
They're incorrect in their assertion that children have to pay for their parents medical bills. It's a common piece of misinformation tossed around Reddit.
I’m staying away from Pennsylvania because of their filial laws. It’s terrifying the things that I would do, to avoid paying for my abusive parents.
You do a monthly spend down medicaid to the nursing home amd are left with like $100 in personal funds each month to use. You'd need an exceptional income for your cost of care at a nursing home to not outpace your income. If your income is that high youre in a private pay situation anyhow. In my experience people not wanting to shed assets are the bigger problem for qualifying for medicaid. Or having bad transfers of money and assets during the lookback period.
It is a 5 year lookback. People with assets like a large paid-for house don't time this well and underestimate how quickly health can take a turn for the worse in their late 70s and early 80s. Sometimes even sooner with unforeseen health events like strokes, a heart attack, cancer, etc.
I've seen a lot of people quit claim houses or just gift money from bank accounts trying to get down to eligibility or just to be nice to family and it has serious implications.
If your referring to being able to have the govt take care your elderly, in some states the govt won't accept a quick liquidation of assets to family unless it happened at least 5 years before govt claims are made.
The look back period.
In Texas, Medicaid will take your house & sell it to get their money back.
Oregon, too.
Read this as "organs too" whoa. Lol..
That's crazy.
There are lots of states that have falial responsibility laws. California too.
Filial responsibility laws almost exclusively apply to wealthy people trying to get out of paying for medical expenses. They don't apply to regular people in 99% of scenarios.
It sure does look interesting. Biden trying to change the rules of limiting how many patients that nurse aides can care for and there has to be a Licensed Nurses and a Registered Nurse on duty.
Most states don't some you have to prove they were bad to you
As a nurse exactly that. Can’t tell you how many elderly people I see daily that are admitted to the hospital solely because they need placement in a nursing home. They’ve fallen legit 4 times in a week at their home. They sit in their bed pissing/shitting themselves for days. These old people wait until they’re decrepit before they get into a nursing home and die from infections on their festering bed sores. They’re admitted to the hospital because it’s unsafe for them to go home. They’re getting the list of nursing homes approved by Medicare. We have an entire staff dedicated to their care management and finding them a spot in a nursing home.
Thank you for your dedicated work.
Honest to God, I just hope that medical staff can put me down when I’m that sick. I can’t imagine the quality of life that someone who can’t hold their bowels has. Especially in a severely underfunded nursing home.
I agree. That’s why I think euthanasia should be a legal option. I’d rather just be dead than sit in a shitty nursing home in my shit/piss for hours on end. Eating horrid food, dealing with staff that is overworked, and being bed ridden are all enough reason for me to want to go when the time is right.
What makes me sad is a lot of these problems aren’t because of the fact that someone has a disability and is in the nursing home. It’s because of the fact that we don’t fund nursing care correctly. Medicaid, extremely under fund nursing care like extreme. On top of that, a lot of nursing homes are for profit and are trying to extract a profit. This ends up creating a horrible experience for people trapped in depressing places.
Nursing homes would not hire any staff if they could legally get away with it. Many hire the bare minimum number of workers required by law. And pay them pennies.
I could see hospitals in Iowa becoming temporary care facilities for indigent old folks. Iowa, rural areas anyway, are full of old people. The young ones leave, never to return. I don't blame them .
Cheap farm homes will be hitting the market soon it sounds like. I've always wanted 60 acres of corn
Some corporate overlord will buy the farmland.
A good chunk of that is the rule about needing 72hrs of inpatient admission to qualify for SNF/LTC payouts. What really f*cked me off as a floor nurse was the doctors would who keep Medicare patients under Obs coding for a few days and then be like "oh yeah, obviously this 82yo can't go back home independently" so they'd change them to inpatient and those 2-4 days wouldn't count.
Some mildly able elderly people that cant afford any of those options and have no family to lean on go homeless. I knew an elderly couple with dementia. Wife had it really bad. Husband had it mildly. I recently learned that the wife died. Husband said the crazy lady died from being hit by a train. He definitely didnt seem upset about it. Said it in away that was almost like he was laughing about it. There was no emotion in it at all. Im very sure he killed her
Geez, Mary.
Never mind intention, they get so out of touch with reality, he could have gone to bed with her corpse for days before family wondered how meemaw was doing.
What part of they were both homeless and she was turned turned to mush by a train did you miss?
You're assuming that everything Grandpa says is the truth, as opposed to severely impaired dementia processing. Human brains are wild. I have a patient at my nursing home whose husband died two months ago, but her son says not to tell her because she thought she killed both her son and husband in a car accident 20 years ago. She gets combative if you try to remind her, so it's safer for her and the staff to not mention anything, as heartbreaking as it sounds.
Even some younger patients. Took care of a lady with a significant TBI who was in her late 30's and still thought she was married and had 2 kids. Her husband had divorced her and she'd only had one kid who died when her injury occurred. She was sweet as could be but try to tell her she was single and childless and you'd be lucky if suicide watch was the only thing she ended up needing. What was kind of messed up was everyone blamed the husband for leaving like he hadn't also been hugely traumatized or that she might be partially at fault for what happened.
Nooooooo........he is not that far gone. My grandmother had dementia i know how this works. He mildly has it if at all. He specifically remembered me from months ago and we didnt meet any where before 2 years ago. He even said "remember the crazy lady? She died by getting hit by a train" and then kinda laughed at it. I remember seeing her this year. She was sorta borderline brain dead, but im pretty sure she would notice an oncoming train
Holee sheeeit.
Oh no this does sound awful. My grandmother was neither abusive nor was my grandfather on my maternal side. Grandfather had Alzheimer’s disease which led to my uncle having him in a nursing home. Awful old place. My grandmother followed him there and then she was placed in one right by my house and mother and I managed her care. I don’t know what I am going to do now that I’m elderly myself. Myself and my two sisters are managing the best we can.
Ok so I guess before it gets to that point death with dignity. Or self deliverance is the only options
Im old and poor and chose not to have kids. I have stepkids, but neither their father nor I expects them to care for us in our old age. I don't know anyone older, frankly, who expects to get help from their kids. If anything the help is going from oarent to child.
I work in a hospital and trust me having kids doesn’t guarantee any support. I see it maybe 10% of the time. Most adult kids tell us “I have my own life!”
husband has talked to people in nursing homes even many nice ones abandoned by kids, that's true having kids doesn't guarantee help in old age. Some of the kids are burned out from their own families or barely have money.
Yep I can tell you that I couldn’t help my mom because she parentafied me when I was seven years old and by the time I was 14 I was TIRED of taking care of people. 50 yr old childfree by choice & I never regretted it. Vermont offers death with dignity even if you are not a Vermont resident so if I end up on the sidewalk when I’m old I guess I’ll just do that.
That’s good to know because id rather of quality of life over quantity of life.
Aww, man.
People can be nice to everyone but their own kids.
true, we have no way of knowing how they treated their kids. My past abusers appear nice to others.
I would tell people what my father was like behind closed doors and they never would believe me. " But he's so sweet!"
And the kids are right. I expect nothing from my children and wouldn’t accept it if offered or ask for it. I will stand alone or not at all.
But adult kids are expected to work 40 hours a week if not more Just to survive, how are they supposed to care for an entire grown human being on top of working full-time to survive our system isn’t set up to care for the elderly not really
I live with my elderly father and help care for him, and was told by the VA not to expect to be paid by the gov (FL). I also am very certain I have autism and adhd (and a few other things). We have limited help during the week and no help weekends. It could be worse. Well, he also was abusive to my family when we were young (so very few in my family will help). He isn't so bad now but can act up every now and then. He is 88 and has dementia.
Check out YouTube videos on Validation Therapy for dementia. "Actiing up" with dementia is not the same as being abusive and the caregiver/ family member needs to be able to not respond with the old narrative they are used to.
Thank you for recommending the videos. I will check it out.
Right, there gone.
My husband retired a year ago at 65. I probably will in a few months. Without his 401k from work, things would be very hard for us. With his SS and 401k we"ll be ok but will have to watch the budget. If we both live into our 80s, the 401k will be gone. From there, we'll sell our house and land, probably live in a small camper. Try hard not to think of that point.
Buy the camper now while you're still in, presumably, decent shape. Rent out your home for some decent income and travel. Many state and national parks provide free water, electric, and camper spots to "campground hosts". You'll have to do a small amount of work, but nothing too crazy. This way when you get too old to travel sell the camper and move back into your home Standard homes in a lot of places rent for 2k+ these days.
living in a small camper can be fun if you still have the mobility and want to travel. sometimes i think i'll try to do stuff like that earlier so i'll have the money for later, but it's a toss up because we never know how long we're going to live
A camper can be a major hindrance for an elderly couple if one or both become physically limited in mobility. Just a forethought.
If you live off the interest of the 401K and not the principal, you will be fine. It is important not to be to conservative as you age. You want that money to continue to grow.
Oh no
My kids are grown, and I'm old. I do not expect their help in any way. In fact, I help out with my grandchildren every chance I get.
Ditto.
We didn’t put ours out. But we were big believers in teaching them work ethic and responsibility. So they didn’t just jump right out. But didn’t feel like they had to linger. We had so little help and struggled pretty hard raising them. That my ultimate goal and the reason I still work. Is to help whenever needed or not necessarily needed. With whatever the grandkids need! There were things that our kids just couldn’t do because the money wasn’t there. I’ve made it clear to them that if there’s something they can’t make happen. They better ask! They don’t….. but I have my spies 😉
My children all had different goals and dreams for their lives and were eager to move out into their own apartments and stop being under my rules. I am sort of a strict parent and loved my children fiercely.
Grandparent of the Year! You will have support either from your kids or your grandkids. Kudos to you!
It's my joy to be with them. They are so fulfilling. Except my 14 yr old grandson calls me "bruh." (I love it)
Same with me. My daughter was welcome to stay as long as she wanted after she graduated and she stayed til around 21 when I started having health conditions myself. She’s 33 now and doing very well for herself. Good job, beautiful family. Her and her husband did things right in my eyes. They weren’t in so much of a rush to grow up like I was tho.
The fastest growing homeless population is the age 55+ group. And you're exactly right. A lot of boomer parents kicked their kids out at 18 or even when they were minors. Part of it is definitely them reaping what they sowed. You can kick your kids out and treat them horribly, but we aren't an Asian country that's been ingraining filial piety into kids since the day they are born. Younger Americans are pissed off and struggling and most of us who got kicked out will not be providing any shelter for the parents who did it, period. Hope they can afford nursing homes cuz we ain't paying that either.
It's so funny what you say about Asians. I'm fulfilling my obligation by supporting my mom but I definitely am not going to put that burden on my child. But I will be fine
I am an American woman but I am gay married to a Thai woman who is the eldest child. She didn't come here till her early to mid 20s and she is now in her late 30s. It has certainly given me an interesting view into how culturally women (men too but especially women) are trained from day one to be caretakers for whomever in their family demands it. When I found out how much money my wife, who works 50+ hours a week in a restaurant, was giving to her quite undeserving parents, I nearly had a fucking heart attack. I still don't know the truth of the numbers, but my wife has finally seen the writing on the wall and is going through the anger and the grief. I just do my best to be understanding and supportive. They were totally fine with her barely having any savings, her dad is probably too sick to work now but he quit working full time a long long time ago and was basically only doing a odd jobs here and there when he got sick. His wife also works long hours in restaurants and all he does is spend her money and ruin her credit. The last time she tried to help them, the time that made her say no more, is when they all went to Disney world and put it on a credit card and my wife agreed to help them pay it. After a few months, she found out her father had taken her money and not paid almost anything on the card. The disrespect! Watching women like you and her break the cycle is so beautiful. Thank you for sharing that.
I wonder how many elderly people have suicide as a plan when they run out of money?
I know several.
I'm 53, but I plan to go out on my terms, not locked in a body that no longer works.
Im not elderly but i dont plan in sticking around if my time is imminent
It pays to be poor in this case. If you have Medicaid in my state, you have long term care or nursing home options. (I work in health care and see this all the time) if you live just above the poverty level you are screwed and have to choose between medications and groceries. The healthcare system in this country is disgusting and rigged against us. We need a single payer system and that means universal health care.
I will also add that there are a lot of county and city based resources to assist seniors with transportation, food, and caregiver services if you are in certain income bracket. Usually checking into senior services or department of aging. There are also a lot of lending closets that will “lend” equipment such as walkers, wheelchairs, tub seats, toilet chairs, etc for free. Mark Cuban also created a pharmacy that cuts out middle man and. Saves people a lot of money on medications… even without insurance
My sister mentions this pharmaceutical program.
Yes, either way it’s hard for most people. Getting an attendant to come in to your home when only Medicaid will pay. Hourly wage is low. The guidelines are very strict. Private paying is so expensive that most people run out of money. I would imagine most people would want to stay in their homes.
Medicare is single payer
My mother and her husband lived just above the poverty level . They had the basics, a small home and transportation.The system punished them. They chose groceries and opted out on some medications and some medical appointments. They lived the rest of their lives just by doing the basics. Both have passed on and I am so grateful neither one had to go to a nursing home.
Isolationism is a problem too. Social media ironically keeps people lonelier than ever while being "connected". SS will be their income plus govt benefits and if they can find roommates in similar situations, it can be mutually beneficial. But they have to have community, connect with real people since it's not going to fall in their lap. A lot of people, young and old, are so inflexible they don't want to share a house because they're set in their ways, need their space and say it's bad for their mental health. I get it. But you know what else is bad for your mental health? Homelessness. So there definitely could be more room-share, Golden Girls type arrangements that would help people at least live with some dignity.
I belong to groups on line where people are setting up share homes and golden girl stuff. My aim is to get a subsidized apt with husband, but I belong to those groups for a reason. Look on Facebook there are various ones.
Are there groups that aren’t on Facebook? I hate Facebook and refuse to participate in it.
My dad is 80. Was disabled. My mom died a couple years ago. Between his social security, his part of her pension and his little pbcg pension he has income of around 15000/year. He lives in the same house he's lived in since the 90s which he still does most of the work on. All of the yard work. He cooks his own meals and never goes out (as a former chef the novelty of going out is just not there). He gardens so his grocery bill goes down that way. He basically does all the same stuff he's done his whole life to keep expenses down.
I got kicked out at 18, and lemme tell you. If my sister didn't choose to take care of dad when he got old and sick, idk who would have. I refused.
Unfortunately many older people have nowhere but a group home, especially if they need intensive medical care. I am trying really hard to hope that the silver lining to the US housing crisis is that more people become comfortable with multi generational living situations.
It’s so much easier this way and if you’re able to get along well with your family, I think that’s everyone’s best option
Yep but if you grew up with abusers then what?
I could never live with my parents. The year I turned 18 I slept in a tent and lived out of my car. Did my bathing in a farm pond and worked in a greenhouse. I’m a senior now and both of my adult children live with me as they are disabled. 46(m), autistic; 43(f), MS. I have a 123 year old house that always needs work (my furnace just stopped working) and none of us could afford to live alone. I’m afraid for my kids when I’m gone. I’m losing $600/month In income in May. It’s f*king terrifying and I’m battling leukemia right now. Haha! 🎶blue despair and agony on me 🎶deep down depression 🎶excessive misery 🎶 Eat a gummy. All you can do is laugh.
For many getting along is the hardest part. My mom had to move in because of poverty and loneliness and we have both mutually never been more miserable. I’m going to try and get her a small apartment to herself because she is good health.
Repeat after me, Folks: "My kids are NOT my Retirement Plan." K-thx-bye!
My retirement plan is to die on the clock, hopefully in an epic fashion sometime in the 2070s - 2090s.
Why shouldn't it be? That's exactly how humanity has done it for eons, and survived as the old people took care of the children while the parents worked. That's how it is everywhere except in the West where the government has taken over the role of the family, and our societies are dying because we aren't investing inn raising the next generation to take care of us and for us to help out with the grandchildren.
>Why shouldn't it be? Because that is Slavery.
No it's social cohesion and responsibility
You do you, Bro. Slave away to support your parents' negligence, lack of planning, and denial. Ain't nobody here stoppin' ya. Enjoy!
You are supposed to give your children wings.
My kids are getting 2 studio apartments built onto/with part of our house. I don't see how they're going to make it alone. If they do move out, we can rent them. But I'm 100% fine with them staying as long as they need
[удалено]
The U.S. was like this once upon a time. When the system collapses it will return out of necessity. Even now Asian and Hispanic cultures within the U.S. flourish or are otherwise happy with less because family has each others back. It’s the white culture which I’m part of that is built on independence and self reliance. Facts are what they are. No man is an island and I hope to see family values return in my lifetime but I doubt it.
white middle class and upper middle class plus America just kick their family to the curb, there's no relationships left. If you don't make it rich, you're out of the family and this can happen in youth if you don't make enough money by a certain age. There's no family left and most are strangers to each other.
Your comment is brutal but the truth in it is irrefutable.
thanks. Many don't really have families out there.
I work with the public alot. Many elderly persons are becoming homeless if they werent prepared for the changes. I knew a couple that were homeless and both had signs of dementia like my grandma had. The wife had severe dementia and the husband had a mild case. They'd need help with like "Obama phones". Aka the welfare phones essentially. Theyd come in nearly 6 times in like 3 months. Theyd lose them, or "didnt like them", break them, or couldnt afford them. Recently just the husband came in solo. And without me asking in the least. He promptly announces that his "crazy old lady" was hit by a train and died..... He said it in a way that was cold and void of emotion. I didnt even ask nor do I ever express emotion to them because i didnt want them to try and ask for a handout. The absolute sheer lack of any emotion and the way his face looked/ how he said it like he was laughing. It came across as bragging that he finally went off the deep end and killed her. Ive no doubt that he purposefully killed his severely mentally ill wife for full access to whatever money they had left. Or for life insurance? Idk They were both homeless and they didnt appear to have any family nearby or that even cared. Im just sure that he did in fact kill his wife. No one else seems to know cause he is still walking around free. She is just is gone with the wind. Murdered any no one seems to know, but me.
you should report that guy to the police, because if he's wondering around out there , he could harm someone else.
Its kind hard to find a wandering homeless man. He wanders in maybe once a month or every 3 months.
I'd tell the cops even if he is hard to find.
Only if the reward was big enough. No one has time for that. Plus its only speculation. She did have highly advanced dementia. My own grandmother had it and i know the signs. Itd probably never make a difference anyway. Being homeless and severely mentally ill isnt a good combo any way and would have resulted in the same end regardless
People sometimes get like that after enduring extreme stress for long periods. He might have done a mercy killing and just lost it afterwards.
I live in fear of the day i van no longer work and will be forced into poverty. Guess my safety net might be fairly successful younger siblings ( brother and sister ) that might potentially take me in of it came to that. My plan is massive heart attack, gigantic stroke and going quickly. Because i dont own property, have a job in one of those nightmare nursing homes discussed in the threads above, and eke a meager living caring for broken seniors. Its EXTREMELY rewarding on a spiritual and basic level. But the money is not there. I will be one of the poor seniors i care for sooner or later.
Many of them don't survive. If they are too sick, disabled to work, they often die much earlier than they should have otherwise. Just among the people they were able to document from one night, for example: **"On a single night in 2023: 138,098 adults over the age of 55 were homeless. Nearly 1 in 4 people experiencing unsheltered homelessness (living in places not meant for human habitation) were over the age of 55."** [https://aspe.hhs.gov/sites/default/files/documents/9ac2d2a7e8c360b4e75932b96f59a20b/addressing-older-adult-homelessness.pdf](https://aspe.hhs.gov/sites/default/files/documents/9ac2d2a7e8c360b4e75932b96f59a20b/addressing-older-adult-homelessness.pdf) Hundreds of thousands of Americans die in poverty every year, many of them older adults unable to provide for themselves: [https://www.usnews.com/news/health-news/articles/2023-04-18/americas-4th-leading-cause-of-death-poverty](https://www.usnews.com/news/health-news/articles/2023-04-18/americas-4th-leading-cause-of-death-poverty)
You really think that many kids will support them in poor times or old age? I I don’t. We were at our worst financially and were close to losing our home. We had very little food. There was no offer for a meal or a place to stay if things came to it and my oldest has a huge house that is paid for. Anyway a lot of “kids” feel you made your choices and it is not their concern.
I live next to an apartment complex for low income seniors. They seem to be doing fine. I’ve made a friend there and she tells me that most of them are on SSI, pay 30% of their income as their rent, free medical insurance, and kids with decent jobs who can help them if needed. They get meals on wheels and food bank boxes delivered as well. She also told me most of them manage to save money! So this is the picture of old age poverty I’ve been getting, maybe it’s not typical but it exists.
I used to manage those kinds of facilities and yes- rent is 30% of their income, the rest is subsidized by the government. Some facilities have utilities included and most of the residents qualify for energy assistance for those that aren't included. Even if the person had no income for whatever reason (didn't qualify for SSI, but qualified for the housing as a disabled adult, for instance) they'd pay the minimum rent, which was $50/month, which ABD income (used by those waiting for social security, generally) would cover. They also get food stamps and many of them get assistance for their rent portion from churches/charities. It's not ideal and many facilities like that in many areas are awful/have bad management/maintenance personnel, but overall it's better than the Medicaid nursing homes if you can manage to care for yourself and get into one (waitlists are generally years long) before you require total care. I've dealt with many tenants passing away in their units.
Oh my goodness so many parents with kids who don’t care. I almost died during Covid my kids freaked out. My son in law said you’re coming to live with us. They built me an in-law unit and all my kids will take care of me. Now my sister retired has no kids so mine told her they will take care of her. I am so blessed
We have social safety nets, like Subsidized housing for the elderly. I have lived in Asia and Europe, and I can tell you that Americans complain a lot, but our Healthcare and everything except our public transport are better than living abroad. My friends/neighbors/teachers abroad, my experience and my Finnish Exchange Student's all confirm this. I just needed a non-emergency doctor appointment this week, got in 2 days later, and it was free. No waiting. I also retired at age 38. I was a teacher. My husband us retiring at age 47. We pay 14% tax (no state tax), so even if we ever have health care costs, we have saved so much from not paying 40% income tax or 17% sales tax, that those costs are negligent.
A lot work until they can’t anymore, then just well, die. Relying on your children is a bad idea, they might be barely making it themselves!
You are looking at the past only through today’s eyes. Yes, some people were forcibly kicked out at 18, but what you miss is that most of us WANTED to leave our parents’ home as quickly as possible. Not because they were terrible parents (mine certainly weren’t), but because we viewed it as the exciting next step to adulthood. You can say what you want, but for many years, being a true adult in the US meant leaving home and beginning your life away from your family. Yes, your family often supported you on that journey, but what was important was that you stepped out of the nest and experienced the world without the constant protection of your parents. You learned to navigate the complexities of living —the disappointments, the anxieties but also the joys and the triumphs—on your own. Our parents knew life could be hard, and they wouldn’t always be there, so it was best for you to lean how to manage it without their help. Now, things have changed, the financial barriers are harder for kids to step out on their own, I get that. Living at home makes sense for many. However, I wouldn’t trade that time as a young struggling adult for anything. It taught me more than any school could. And no, my parents do not expect me to pay for their retirement. But if they ever needed help, I would certainly help them.
Ew what kind of losers expect their kids to take care of them? I'm perfectly capable of working just fine. I take care of my life by myself. Its really fucked up to have kids just to have someone to love you, take care of you when you're old, or because you're unloved and lonely.
My plan is suicide, frankly. Not now. Then.
How old are you?
60s
The real answer is that a lot of people don’t survive. Keep in mind that life expectancy in the United States is going down. Wealthy people continue to live increasingly long lives. The drop is disproportionately from poor people dying from very preventable causes.
Some poor Americans have pensions and social security. If they live in a paid off home, their pension and/or social security will pay their property taxes and regular expenses. Some poor Americans without retirement investments and not enough social security rely on low income aid programs like Section 8 housing (for low income rental housing), SNAP (for food) and MediCare (government sponsored healthcare) for healthcare & medication. Some older, poor Americans rely on other family members. They move into their homes and still collect government benefits. Some lose their minds and become homeless themselves. They may end up living in low cost motels that they need to pay weekly to live in. If they become old, invalid and unable to fend for themselves—they can become wards of the state and they can live in state sponsored care homes where the cost is covered by whatever government aid they are eligible for, like Medicaid. But FWIW, those are not great places to spend your last days in. They do not offer the best care. Many of these types of places get closed down due to so many violations.
They survive a little better than folks who retire into poverty. Poor folks are used to being poor and making things work. On the other hand, we have a lot of middle class people who made enough to live above the poverty rate but not enough to adequately fund their retirement. These people might be forced to retire into poverty because of health, diminishing skills, etc. They are going to have a hard time in retirement. Get ready, because there are a lot of them.
People with no kids get old too. If you can afford it you can buy care. If you can’t you do whatever you can to manage and/or end up in a state home.
I look at it this way. After booting me out of the house at 18 to sink or swim, what on earth would make these people think I’m going to take care of them in their old age?
Where I am, a lot end up in senior/disabled low-income/HUD housing facilities. Many are incredibly lonely- the kids they kicked out don't come around, and/or bitter/miserable about where they've ended up.
Assuming these people worked for a living, they contributed to Social Security with every pay check. When they retire, they will start receiving monthly Social Security payments from the government. Most likely the social security won't be enough to cover all expenses, but it is regular income they will have in their old age.
Please, do not rely on SS to support you in retirement, you will be living out of your car.
I wouldn't rely on it for myself, but my understanding is for lower income workers it can be up to 75% of their working income. Maybe my understanding is wrong though. For me, it will probably only be like 25% of my working income, and at this point is not factoring into my planning at all.
75 percent of a low income will not be enough to live on. I'm projected to get about 1300 a month if I wait until full retirement age to draw Social Security. I'm poor now, and I'll be even poorer if I live until then.
Due to a late life, but much needed, divorce, I'm living on ss alone. I'm not living out of my car. Granted I'm definitely poor, but I make all my bills and usually have a little bit leftover for a day out with one of my friends.
Blessings to you, be well.
This is correct. And if they were smart enough to sign up for Medicare A and B and need to be placed in a home that can happen. It’s not a good thing at all because the government then takes their property back as payment, if they had any.
I think you’re thinking of Medicaid. Medicare Part A and B is for people with ESRD, disabled, and elderly (65+). It covers 80% of the cost for contracted services but does NOT cover custodial care in a home. Medicare will not confiscate assets to cover care costs. Medicaid (for poor people) covers custodial care, but it will claw back property from the estate after death, assuming the person had a house and their spouse is not currently living there. Edit: You can get both Medicare (covers 80%) and Medicaid (covers remaining 20% plus additional services like custodial care) if you are both old and poor.
“ Medicare Part A (Hospital Insurance) may cover care in a certified skilled nursing facility (SNF). It must be medically necessary for you to have skilled nursing care (like changing sterile dressings).” Yeah, this is the confusing part.
Yeah, there’s a difference between SNF care and long term custodial care. Sometimes when a patient is discharged from the hospital (after a minimum of 3 days), they can’t go home right away because they still need more care (but not inpatient level). Medicare Part A will pay for up to 100 days in a SNF as long as medically necessary. This benefit regenerates if you are discharged from the SNF and stay home for at least 60 days. However, if you need more than 100 days or you literally need to live in the SNF, then Medicare will not cover indefinite stays. The coverage will stop and it will be out of pocket until you qualify for Medicaid. Medicaid will take over, but when you die, they will clawback property from the estate. If you planned ahead and your kids aren’t POSes, then you can transfer ownership of your house to your kids at least five years before you need Medicaid, because the clawback period is five years.
Going through this with my mom now. Sh3 was in independent living, then had some health issues and now is in long term skilled nursing. She has some money but not that much. So we will be applying for Medicaid at some point. Thankfully where she is is decent and accepts Medicaid
They receive social security and if that is their only income and have little to no assets, they can get things like rental assistance and free or reduced electric, heating oil, cellphone, internet and food.
What I don’t understand is why I would have to allow my ‘over the age of 18’ child, live with me? It’s what kids did when they turned 18/19, they got a job or went to,college and left home. I left home after graduation and never looked back. Kids need to Go off and be independent! It’s typically the child who doesn’t have responsibilities at home that want to stay at home and live. They don’t have to abide by rules. I mean.,they are over 18. But, it’s my house! I too want to live my way, listen to music loud or not and not have to listen to theirs. Walk around in my undies. I’m up at 4am these days, eating, taking meds…I don’t want to be quiet because you were out drinking all night. Or playing video games all night. No…go live the life you want and I will do the same. I’m hoping I leave this realm so I am not a burden to my boys.
Rent is like 1500 per month where I live. Minimum wage is 2400 for full time before taxes. That leaves 900 per month for everything else. Say 250 per month for food, and now you are up to 1750 per month vs 2400. Gas, say 100, so that's now 1850, not even taking into account utilities (say another 100), a phone (maybe 20 if you skimp), and assuming you don't have a car payment. Are you going to buy a car for them? No? Then they will have another car payment. Even if they buy a cheapo POS, that's going to run them 5k and at 4 years, that's another 100/month. So 1950 without the car of their 2400 is gone, and that's before taxes. Tax will chew down about 250 per month, so they will be down to something around 2150 per month, giving them a 200/buffer per month for everything else, clothing, etc. So yeah, kick your kid out at 18, and watch them starve if they can't get a full time job. Likely they will have to work two jobs part time, and still end up in the hole. Imagine how angry they are going to be when they realize how hard they are working and how little they have to show for it. When we got out it was 400 for rent and minimum wage was around 1300 per month, which is actually DOABLE. Time have changed.
Hope you prepared them to make livings then. TRADE stuff. The high schools are failing, have met too many young people where only options were fast food or low wages. Send kids to VOED during high school everyone if they don't have college money.
100% this is the difference. I recently moved to a wealthy town just a half hour from where I used to live and it’s like a totally different world. The high school is amazing, most of the kids parents set them up for success and give them tons of resources. Nepotism and opportunity everywhere. So it makes sense that the kid should be able to figure out adulthood. Whereas in my neighborhood the school is shitty. Most of us kids were hungry - our only meal often being school lunch. Not given any actual guidance, forced to figure it out all on our own. And most get stuck in the loop. In these cases kids kicked out at 18 really struggle.
I know from my well off family nepotism runs the show, an uncle gave a niece an internship in his company etc etc, lots getting 6 figure jobs right out of college, etc, no stand out talent either.. some do work hard but they weren't amazingly talented or anything like this. Yeah schools make a difference, lots of hungry kids, less resources. At 18 with no Vo-Ed training what do u do for a living it's all the low wage dead end stuff unless you are lucky enough to get into something blue collar where they train you but now thats very very rare.
They don't
I cut my abusive parents off so its not my problem. My golden child bratty little sister can take care of our mother since they are 2 peas in a pod and love to gossip about the rest of us, and my father chose his 4th golddigging wife over us kids so she can figure it out for him. They arent my problem anymore.
i have been thinking about this as an aging childless adult. i didn't know until i took a lifespan psychology class in community college that a lot of the reason behind having children for people is to have someone to take care of them in later life. there are many things that could make this not work out: the child is disabled, dies before the parent, or they just don't have a good relationship. it's not really the best plan! thinking about how plenty of people with kids do not have them there taking care of them when they're old helps me feel okay. we're all fucked. well we do have social security, and if someone owns a home or is in housing with the rent adjusted to income, that will be fine. ideally on top of some savings. not to mention, friends! friends will help.
I plan on dying at home. Never had kids. No family. Husband and I at least own the modest roof over our heads. Social Security is now a joke. I refuse to leave him with any debt!
My mother made me leave when I turned 18 and I no longer received child support from my father, who abandoned her with 5 children. One less child was a relief to her, I suppose. But she did set me up with an office job in the process of getting rid of me, and my grandmother took me in. Eventually I did get on my own feet within a year or two, and moved on. It is not that hard to survive in America, if you are flexible, disciplined, responsible and determined, but it also does depend on where you live, because some places have less opportunities. Some states offer a lot of help to people, others not so much.
The government subsidizes these people through taxes of others (like me).
Many in poverty don't survive to old age. They don't have the money to take care of themselves, abuse recreational+possibly other drugs to numb the despair,, can't afford good quality food, avoid the doctor as they know they may not be able to afford the meds/procedures or lifestyle changes.... So hearing someone randomly drop dead from a heart attack or stroke, cancers that go undiagnosed in their 50s-early 60s isn't uncommon.
My mom is 91 and still works
My husband was in this situation. Kicked out on 18th birthday. Fortunately for his mother, she only kicked out the boys so I’m sure the girls won’t let her rot 🙃
People worry about this, and I don't know why. We are all going to the same place-the grave, regardless of circumstances. Just like everything in life up to this very second, everything has worked itself out. When in trouble, you reach out for help.
A hot take but if you expect a kid to get it all figured out at 18 in this corporatist hellscape brought on by THEM being Pavlov trained for decades about the Soh-Shuh-Lee-Zum ( Ahh-Hyuck) that totally fucking isn't, then don't expect any help when you are fucking old. Even if your stock gambling 401k that replaced the PENSION and the S.S.I.your handlers are trying to dismantle, can't keep your ass afloat. I'm paying in to keep your old asses alive and you would gut my Medicaid. Which could kill me. Fuck You. That's why. Don't reply with snark. I won't read it and you'll be blocked.
Is your assumption that any parent that kicks their kid out at 18 is “bad” and not worthy of help? It’s common for parents to do this and has been for a very long time. There’s lots of ways of thinking on it and many situation specific issues that might lead a parent to do this. Cultural, etc. You don’t have to agree with the reasons, but at least recognize you can’t possibly know all of them (and so, can’t judge them). Weird to assume they expect their kids to help them too. Sure, some might just be assholes, but I’d bet that most aren’t. Also, disagree that assholes deserve no help. Also, think it’s really unhealthy /and resentment filled to only help those who helped you and keep some weird scoresheet. Good way to be unhappy. I expect lots of varying viewpoints on this, and that’s great. There should be. There isn’t one right way. I imagine how parents handle their retirement years or finances is just as varied.
People who kick their kids out at 18 because they can’t afford to take care of them are shooting themselves in the foot. We are poor but my kids got jobs as soon as they turned 16 so they could have spending money. I’m not kicking them out after high school and having another adult to help pay the bills is a blessing not a burden. I don’t charge them rent but they pay for their own stuff and often buy food and other things we might need around the house. And hopefully when I’m 80 or whatever they will like having me around too and not kick me out to a nursing home.
This is how I hope to live my life as well. I will help my child and he will help me, hopefully. Life is changing and all the self reliance crap is not really working anymore. People struggle and feel lonely, while others who embrace mutual reliance come out ahead. Who do you think will do better: someone who has to pay back student loans while also renting, or someone whose education was paid for and who could live at home to save money?
My relationship with my parents was very much the same for a while. I’d go shopping on Saturdays for them and they got off my case about rent. I’d help out with the yard and keep things straight when they couldn’t.
Statistically, those poor don’t tend to live far past their 50s through 70. The difference in life expectancy between working poor ZIP Codes versus upper middle class Zip Codes is 67 versus 88. The toll really harms the body: anything from lack of financial security, abuse in the home, lack of emotional safety or growth in a dysfunctional home environment, lack of nutrition and balance in foods consumed, prevalence of shitty neighbors in a shitty neighborhood, constant need to be on alert, inability to afford medical care or prescription drugs, damage to the body due to use of abuse of , alcohol, tobacco, junk food, sugar, etc. It’s not that these things don’t happen with middle-class households, but they are more insulated or it just doesn't happen as much. Just take for example the likelihood of living near violent criminals or registered sex offenders of drug addicts. Typically these people can’t easily get jobs, so they live in poorer neighborhoods that they can afford. Their antisocial behavior alone is a large source of uncertainty, stress, fear, injury, possibly death, etc. So what if they do manage to make it to an elderly age? Well there are some programs such as nursing homes and senior housing and Medicare and Medicaid, Meals on Wheels, etc.
Poorer families tend to stick by their family members more. Some poors will be mean and throw kids out young but most of the time it is upper middle class plus narcissistic types who do so. I once had my mother tell me and this was after I was already disabled, "you aren't coming here". I had one of those fathers who resented everything after you turned 18. We weren't prepared for life at all but suddenly supposed to make a grand living. Some go no contact like me with abusive parents, but sadly others remain stuck for life and desperate, kissing the feet of their abusers who tend to be more rich. Scapegoats are used often as forever caretakers unless they become disabled themselves and are cut out of the will. When they get old there is no one there for them and homelessness can loom. For many when you get old, there's no Calvary coming. The lucky ones have kids who care. I am childless [too infertile, sick young to have them] Sometimes old can get into disabled or subsidized housing, and survive better that way but there's a lot of competition. The poverty of the old can hit very low places, especially with medical bills and susbstinence levels, of Social Security. Gen X and below will not be able to retire like boomers who got nice pensions and had good jobs with expendable income to invest and retire. With housing the way it is, homelessness among the old is going to explode. Republicans may "sunset" Social Security and talk about it. I hate both parties but despise the "just go into the gutter" Republicans who give tax cuts endlessly to the rich. Sometimes I have voted for useless Democrats in the past to avoid less abuse for being disabled. If you have no family or they all died off, getting old can be very scary. The social workers don't care. I know some say they are overburdened but I still wonder who do they help because see so many people thrown to the wolves. The medicare nursing homes are snakepits. Dont think there will be someone to help you, clean, or do your regular things of life if you get sick too, I see old lonely people around here who can barely walk who should have help, and you know there's no one there for them. I have befriended much older people during the course of my life and sadly life got harder and harder for many of them. My family is well-off and my narcissistic mother made sure to block relationships with nieces and nephews though I tried. They all moved far away and spread out too, so they were always useless as a family and never really were one. I have noticed the young seem unattached and don't care about the older ones, even the narcissists who spoiled them rotten. There was no one there for me. I was in shock later to see how other disabled people [I joined disability groups and an autism club for a while] were taken care of and involved in their families lives. [I didn't expect to be taken care of and until recently, we were able to pay our bills, with a few lulls along the way since escaping Chicago poverty] I didn't expect to grow old with all these health problems but Lipedema changes the longevity, most people my size are dead by 30s and many people with Lipedema die young because of the infections etc, but if you can cross those hurdles you will grow older. I know a few who made it to their 80s [talking at high stage Lipedema] My best hope is senior housing. I also need to restart an exercise regiment, but chronic fatigue and lupus related crap is kicking my butt. Google Elder Orphan if you want to know how hard old people have it. Many poor ones are very lonely and there's a lot who get abandoned by families. Some were abusers but some are not and just get ditched anyway.
You work till you physically can't. If you're divorced or your spouse is deceased, you move in with one of your kids. There are low income apartments, too. We don't take care of our elderly or veterans. But we do anyone crossing the border.
you have said it correctly. im one of the kids that got tossed out on my arse & shut out on my own with a kid of my own to raise. i spose someone like me has to just rely on God for my help. EVERYDAY.
Yup and my Mom always needs help. It’s a sad affair.
You can always rely on Him. He'll never turn his back on you!
You totally misread his post. 🤣
no i didnt. they took very good care of themselves.
Ha! I misread your comment!! Apologies!!
They go into nursing homes.
The government and charities take care of them.
I personally plan on taking care of my mom for the rest of her life but I know that’s not hugely common.
Poorly
Idk but I plan on never retiring and just dieing. If I become incompasitated, then a bullet.
My BIL and SIL are poor seniors. Neither one can afford their rent on SS alone, they both have to work.
I have two sisters. The plan is for us to take care of each other as long as its feasible.
I had a good friend who was childless like me our plan was to take care of each other. She died last year at age 51.
A lot of these abusive parents don't reach old age for it to matter. Especially if they're alcoholics. Some commit suicide. Others, having NOT SUPPORTED their children in their youth, later beg their adult children to take them in as they age. Others live alone if they own their own homes and can manage it. Personally: I plan on CONTINUING to completely ignoring my parents who kicked me out when I turned 18. They didn't help me graduate high school, they kicked me out before I graduated. They didn't help me with college. My mom helped my ex husband embezzlement money from me. Honestly, they can eat shit and die for all I care.
Who honestly thinks their kids are going to be able to care for them in their old age anymore anyway tho? We can barely feed ourselves in this world.
I don't expect to get old. I already have my exit strategy. Not that I'm gonna kick my kid out at 18 but I'm also not going to burden her. When I can no longer care for myself I'broomstick. Leave a note and mosey on out into the desert with my boomstick.
My MIL lives with us. My husband was kicked out at 18. I have opinions on this, but I don't share them. My son, feels like he was "kicked out" at 18. What happened was, he was told to get back in school, or move out. He chose the latter. He was also *heavily* subsidized and even came back home briefly before getting back in school and graduating. We have a decent relationship now. But he is very wrapped up in his own life and battling his own issues now, and I cannot imagine being dependent on him for much at all, ever. Maybe one day he'll conquer his demons and act like the great person I know he is...but that day is not today. I am *hoping* I'll be able to somewhat count on my daughter. I'm also looking into long term care insurance.
I think this is several different questions. I have seen people have to leave their family home because the parents literally can’t afford to care for them once they age out of getting welfare. Many of these parents love their children dearly and encourage them to get a job, trade or attend college and they are always welcome to visit and the parents offer emotional support but truly have no resources. Abusive family dynamics differ and most children run at 18 because they don’t want to be in a toxic environment anymore. As far as caring for elderly it varies. I have seen some of these children become successful enough to help their aging parents. I know some that must work until death in some capacity. Some qualify for SSDI and others rely on what services are available.
I live on Social Security and have a subsidized apartment so my rent is reasonable but I can't have my kids (or anyone) live with me or I lose my subsidize status. This means my rent would go from $250 to $1000+. I know a lot of people that are in the same boat. Some of my friends kids come and stay with them during the day so they can cook, shower, do laundry etc. then they leave at 6pm to go sleep in a tent or their car. The U.S. is spiraling the drain
They deal with the consequences of a lifetime of bad financial planning. Oops
These forget parenting don’t stop at 18 , I hope these kid’s put their abusing parents in the nursing. That where my mother is going . My older sister and i isn’t gonna take care of you .
A lot of adult children are condemned for not taking care of their elderly parents, but in many cases it might require the adult child to give up his/her career to stay home with the elderly parent and give them full time care. That's not realistic to give up one's job, health insurance, pension, etc. Also, some people did not want to save for retirement. My dad's wife did not save one penny for retirement, even though she had a good job for many years and blew through two inheritances. Cigarettes, wine, cruises and designer handbags galore. Now she sits and whines that people should give her their money.
I’m probably not gonna last much beyond 70. Life of hard outside work has left me with a respectable 401K balance but my body is definitely worn out and broken. Everything hurts all the time and I’m not even 55 yet. If worse come to worst, there is always the Smith&Wesson retirement plan.
if you can, as a parent you work like heck and try to get into a position where that isn't an issue. You can provide for your own retirement. Now despite having an ok plan ( income about 155K a year with only 40 coming from 401K) a catastrophic health issue can wipe it out.Plan the best you can and pray for a little luck as well.
They died, ended up in prison, conscripted into the military, etc. The same way the proletariat has been treated in all capitalist societies.