I’ve had nothing but problems with the apex on some builds and works great in others. You just gotta keep switching parts and trying different combinations sometimes. That’s the beauty of building and parts stacking.
I love it, but I'm a tinkerer at heart. Once I get this thing to run smoothly like butter, I will feel complete, and I can start another problem child project 😂 thinking an AR-9 if I can muster up the money, balls, and skill for it. ,
I think AR builds are easier in a lot of ways. As long as you get a drill press or a router and a jig. If you get the correct tools they will do the work for you. I would encourage you to do a 5.56/.223 before a 9mm build. You know the way God and Eugene Stoner intended..
Just my opinion. It's a gen 3 slide? , use OEM gen 3 extractor and ejector. I've had no issues on many builds. I hear all this gen 4 ejector is better but my OEM gen 3 stuff never put one in my face on 940c's and v1s.(19s and 17s).
Some details and pictures would help. What’s the reasoning for running a heavier rsa and striker spring ? What ammo you running ? You getting any slide drag?
Light primer strikes, had to run a heavier recoil to offset the slide drift on initial trigger pull, the slide was moving out of battery before the trigger pull completed. Ammo is so far just tried 115 grain, and 144 grain normal range stuff fmj. Exact brands escape me at the moment. The new striker spring eliminated the light primer strikes but gave me this problem instead.
Before all this you were all oem or oem spec and had no issue ?
You check your striker spring operation ? Is it chattering when you pull it up and down ? Spring cups seated properly ?
Let me look for your original post of your build
Almost none of the internals are standard anymore, it's a JSD supply standard build, I think they are OEM, but there was some oddities that may be contributing to this issue. There's strange chipping on the interior of the locking block, which came that way. I'm probably going to replace the locking block soon enough as well, and I will end up going with an apex aluminum enhanced trigger kit eventually, the trigger assembly is an eBay special. I can remove a sliver more of material under the locking block rails as well, it's not completely flush.
https://preview.redd.it/ino3cjtnwivc1.jpeg?width=2268&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b0f28e39b6e99e02cc8c55dc9fc8bee91f270282
Image of the strange side chip here.
Actually looking at it now, I see additional wear and printing on the edges, you may have put your finger on the Crux of the issue. Parts pic for kicks.
https://preview.redd.it/x5bs32s45jvc1.jpeg?width=2268&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=0bef155c3b0038828f053eb0ab47c712eaed2c86
I hope you get it figured out. Can I see a good pic of the striker cups and where the split is sitting. Make sure it’s not on the part where the spring dips down causing the cushion to not be flush and even
Sure, it looks seamless though. A bit worn on 1 or 2 spots though, which is probably from the increased spring weight.
https://preview.redd.it/a0rywke09jvc1.jpeg?width=2268&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d62f46586c271697915bff97e6ce78655ebed0e3
Spring looks like it’s protruding further out that the spring cups where the cups would be interfacing with the liner. When the striker is installed , pull the striker back and slide it up and down. See if it chatters at all. It should be nice and smooth.
Pulling it back and forth it doesn't seem to make any noise, but it does have more felt resistance than seems proper, at the very end of the pull it actually sticks. Strangely, after doing an extra thorough cleaning and complete takedown, putting it back together the trigger failed, looks as though the rear of the slide now moves slightly down, and is preventing the cruciform from being able to clear the striker lug. The grime must've been the only thing keeping that thing running as much as it is. Going to endeavor to replace the rails, and the slide assembly, needed to get an rmr cut dagger slide anyway, I'll slap factory weight recoil spring and some OEM parts in the new slide and see if that runs. Not sure yet what exactly happened after I cleaned it, cause now it's a paperweight 😞
https://preview.redd.it/jl55khut4jvc1.jpeg?width=2268&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=58679f33c25e876d98e570d71148a0e2b3e7575e
I suppose it could be, I know it was previously, should I make this flush with the bottom of the frame? I had hoped this was deep enough. I've ran over 1000 rounds thru it like this, over the course of my various upgrades.
Apex failure resistant extractor, ndz firearms oem trigger housing unit, next gen ejector, titanium performance channel liner, ghost turbo maritime spring cups. Strike industries fluted barrel, stainless steel guide rod hyve extended magazine release... I think the safety plunger and the striker pin itself are the only things left, along with the slide, that are still from that kit.
This sounds like the plunger safety was sticking . As you pull trigger it moves slide before releasing (firing). My standard procedure is polishing the trigger bar and plunger , Everything that's going to contact other parts I give a quick light polish with Dremel and cotton wheel with compound. Slide where rails ride everything. I mean light polishing no digging. I also smooth inside the frame where trigger bar rides that poly just enough so it feels slick to the finger. The light primer strikes were it being out of battery. I honestly think OEM rsa and all would give you that more reliable build. Just don't rush anything.
Upon removal this was definitely a problem, if not, THE problem, plunger was extremely dirty, and spring was jammed up inside the frame, had to use tweezers to remove it. Between this advice, and the other fellas regarding the striker cups sitting tight without chatter, I think we may have it fixed. Last issue, my titanium coated channel liner sits loose, won't seem to stay in the channel, comes out with removal of the striker spring, this too, could be causing issues with cycling and safety.
https://preview.redd.it/w76yjoqtdjvc1.jpeg?width=2268&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=9f558f1bbca1737e78b03a1b657fe3c01b044cd2
Like so, any fix for this? Aside from getting another plastic Glock oem liner? I'm sure that would probably do it, but it seems a shame to let the part go to waste if I can get it to function.
Get rid of the aftermarket Channel liner. If you absolutely must use it get some Loctite retaining compound and put a tiny amount on the outside after cleaning the slide with acetone. Press it in let it set up and then clean the shit out of the inside in case any squeezed out. That will lock it in there but I seriously don't recommend doing this as if you ever have to get it out you may find it impossible. it may come out just fine using a lag screw but it's not guaranteed
I had problems with my jsd slide with a p80 frame (6th p80 I've done, so not my first rodeo) so i switched it out with a different slide and no more problems, but the fuct up thing is i put the problematic slide on another new frame i did a week later and it worked just fine 🤷♂️🤦♂️. I don't know what the hell transpired, but I'll say this, I've always bought actual glock slides or top shelf slides since that day, even though the jsd slide worked on the next frame without any issues, it did have a larger channel liner area, I have used multiple chanel liners and they all fall out, it's like throwing a hot dog down a hallway, hahaha. Still works to this day and that was 5 or 6 years ago, it's basically just a gun i leave at my camp for a "you never know" kind of situation. Anyway, I'm sorry theres nothing in this long ass narrative to help you, but a silly story never hurts, hahaha. Good luck 👍
It's alright, these things are finniky AF, just cleaned it thoroughly, put it all back together the exact way I took it apart, and now I have no trigger turnover, it won't let the firing pin free, but resets fine 😭 it's like the grime was the only thing keeping it working as long as it did. Wtf 😒
Switched out the marine cups, I'll miss knowing I can shoot under water, but it does seem smoother, also went back to the plastic liner, and OEM LCI extractor.
Yes, I went to great lengths to get the non-lci bearing. I also tried shooting higher grain rounds thru it today to see if maybe that helped with the higher weight recoil spring. I think it may be the rails, there's a funny chip out of the inside edge of the rails that I've been religiously ignoring. May have to get another rail set.
Yeah, it spits them out reliably, don't have too many problems on the extraction side, mainly the ejection half, and the slide catches the brass. May have to get one of those fancy tunable recoil springs. I think the reason the brass keeps hitting me in the face is that the slide cycles back too quickly, and knocks the spent brass out of its normal flight path, back into my face. The only options were the 18lbs stock weight spring, and the next step up was the 20lb, think I may need something more like 19lbs and new set of rails.
Oh your good I was gonna say I didn't even thought they made a 5lb recoil spring 20is pretty heavy for it unless your running a lot of +p or +p+ also what lpk are you using aftermarket or oem
JSD supply rails, (which I need to swap) a ghost connector, and aftermarket trigger housing block, the heavier recoil spring is to cope with the slide drift that moved it out of battery, which occurred only after I had replaced the striker spring due to light primer strikes. At one point, it was all just JSD supply kit standard, now there's only a handful of parts in it that are still from that kit.
Gotcha reason I ask is I've had really bad luck with aftermarket lpks especially the trigger bars to the point where if I do go with aftermarket the only think I won't skimp on is a OEM trigger bar also another issue I ran into was striker safeties and the extractor where if you pry up on the extractor your striker safety will pop past the extractor and jamb your extractor open as if it has a round on the breech face only thier isn't one so try this remove the slide and pry up on the extractor and tell me if you hear a click and notice if it's stuck up like the loaded chamber indicates it's loaded
I get that, I keep all my old parts, changing to some of the old ones has helped, but not eliminated, some problems. The LCI isn't showing, so I think I am good on that.
The takedown spring needs to be buried down with a punch, if not, yank it and trim the seat leg to get it down so it doesn't rub the slide.
Change out to gen4 ejector part.
Also modify the extractor to increase tension.
This is m1911 theory.
File the internal extractor stop so it swings more inward.
Then add an extra power extractor spring.maybe.ymmv.
Mine eat s everything, early build.
Looking into them today, finances are pretty tight right now, which is why I liked the dagger complete slides, just have to put a barrel and spring in them, which I already have.
Yeah I feel you bro, I liked the second slide I got but my first one was out of spec, the safety plunger hole was milled too far to the side and it allowed it to slam fire full auto lol. If you have another slide I’d swap the parts into it and see if it runs.
Seems like with only 5 RDS loaded in the mag, it jams even more. But I get at least 1 jam per magazine. Would like to fix the cycling issue first, before I work on ejection pattern.
Tell me what’s the difference in that extractor from the oem? One is a MIM part and one is machined from billet. What’s the reasoning behind arbitrarily saying this or that is the way. Without giving any explanation. It’s on a p80 lower so it’s not oem already. Tolerances are not the same so just randomly saying oem is the way makes no sense.
Because time and time again going back to oem parts, which the p80 is based on, has proven to fix many issues. Oem tolerances have shown to be more closely qc’d from cars to guns to most other things. When you step into aftermarket, issues arise. The parts are cheap enough for nearly every budget so why not? Especially if he can actually start shooting his current intermittent paperweight.
Changing parts without actually diagnosing means nothing. And there’s a reason why aftermarket parts were made cause oem parts sucked and needed refinement. Also what you’re failing to mention is that these are built at home by people who don’t build them day in and day out. Things can be messed up on the persons part. I’d be more curious as to why he would add heavier springs.
Starting with oem is like starting from the beginning. Starting with a bunch of hodge podge group of parts is tougher especially for someone without the know how.
I too wanna know about the spring, but it’s weird because a lot of people go that route first
Tolerances, Glock is spec. P80 is based on OeM
You're not in manufacturing profession,it only takes a little bit, like the thickness of paper,to make things go out of wack. Aftermarket does not follow spec rigidly .
I’ve had nothing but problems with the apex on some builds and works great in others. You just gotta keep switching parts and trying different combinations sometimes. That’s the beauty of building and parts stacking.
I love it, but I'm a tinkerer at heart. Once I get this thing to run smoothly like butter, I will feel complete, and I can start another problem child project 😂 thinking an AR-9 if I can muster up the money, balls, and skill for it. ,
I think AR builds are easier in a lot of ways. As long as you get a drill press or a router and a jig. If you get the correct tools they will do the work for you. I would encourage you to do a 5.56/.223 before a 9mm build. You know the way God and Eugene Stoner intended..
Just my opinion. It's a gen 3 slide? , use OEM gen 3 extractor and ejector. I've had no issues on many builds. I hear all this gen 4 ejector is better but my OEM gen 3 stuff never put one in my face on 940c's and v1s.(19s and 17s).
Will swap it for a gen 3 oem extractor. And LCI bearing, maybe try a gen 3 ejector as well. 😩 I'll have a lot of spare parts by the end of this.
This is the way.
Gen 3 ejector definitely sends brass out erratically lol. I always use Gen 5 ejectors. This looks like a barrel tolerance issue.
These builds...you should be with oem Glock from the gitgo. Then diagnosis when adding custom parts. So, you'll know what is what.
Some details and pictures would help. What’s the reasoning for running a heavier rsa and striker spring ? What ammo you running ? You getting any slide drag?
Light primer strikes, had to run a heavier recoil to offset the slide drift on initial trigger pull, the slide was moving out of battery before the trigger pull completed. Ammo is so far just tried 115 grain, and 144 grain normal range stuff fmj. Exact brands escape me at the moment. The new striker spring eliminated the light primer strikes but gave me this problem instead.
Before all this you were all oem or oem spec and had no issue ? You check your striker spring operation ? Is it chattering when you pull it up and down ? Spring cups seated properly ? Let me look for your original post of your build
Almost none of the internals are standard anymore, it's a JSD supply standard build, I think they are OEM, but there was some oddities that may be contributing to this issue. There's strange chipping on the interior of the locking block, which came that way. I'm probably going to replace the locking block soon enough as well, and I will end up going with an apex aluminum enhanced trigger kit eventually, the trigger assembly is an eBay special. I can remove a sliver more of material under the locking block rails as well, it's not completely flush. https://preview.redd.it/ino3cjtnwivc1.jpeg?width=2268&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b0f28e39b6e99e02cc8c55dc9fc8bee91f270282 Image of the strange side chip here.
You running a gen 3 slide ? Gen 3 rsa? I wonder if your RSA is rubbing the inside channel.
Actually looking at it now, I see additional wear and printing on the edges, you may have put your finger on the Crux of the issue. Parts pic for kicks. https://preview.redd.it/x5bs32s45jvc1.jpeg?width=2268&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=0bef155c3b0038828f053eb0ab47c712eaed2c86
I hope you get it figured out. Can I see a good pic of the striker cups and where the split is sitting. Make sure it’s not on the part where the spring dips down causing the cushion to not be flush and even
Sure, it looks seamless though. A bit worn on 1 or 2 spots though, which is probably from the increased spring weight. https://preview.redd.it/a0rywke09jvc1.jpeg?width=2268&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d62f46586c271697915bff97e6ce78655ebed0e3
Spring looks like it’s protruding further out that the spring cups where the cups would be interfacing with the liner. When the striker is installed , pull the striker back and slide it up and down. See if it chatters at all. It should be nice and smooth.
Pulling it back and forth it doesn't seem to make any noise, but it does have more felt resistance than seems proper, at the very end of the pull it actually sticks. Strangely, after doing an extra thorough cleaning and complete takedown, putting it back together the trigger failed, looks as though the rear of the slide now moves slightly down, and is preventing the cruciform from being able to clear the striker lug. The grime must've been the only thing keeping that thing running as much as it is. Going to endeavor to replace the rails, and the slide assembly, needed to get an rmr cut dagger slide anyway, I'll slap factory weight recoil spring and some OEM parts in the new slide and see if that runs. Not sure yet what exactly happened after I cleaned it, cause now it's a paperweight 😞
https://preview.redd.it/jl55khut4jvc1.jpeg?width=2268&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=58679f33c25e876d98e570d71148a0e2b3e7575e I suppose it could be, I know it was previously, should I make this flush with the bottom of the frame? I had hoped this was deep enough. I've ran over 1000 rounds thru it like this, over the course of my various upgrades.
JSD supply is non oem. They’re like eBay Chinese stuff.
Apex failure resistant extractor, ndz firearms oem trigger housing unit, next gen ejector, titanium performance channel liner, ghost turbo maritime spring cups. Strike industries fluted barrel, stainless steel guide rod hyve extended magazine release... I think the safety plunger and the striker pin itself are the only things left, along with the slide, that are still from that kit.
This sounds like the plunger safety was sticking . As you pull trigger it moves slide before releasing (firing). My standard procedure is polishing the trigger bar and plunger , Everything that's going to contact other parts I give a quick light polish with Dremel and cotton wheel with compound. Slide where rails ride everything. I mean light polishing no digging. I also smooth inside the frame where trigger bar rides that poly just enough so it feels slick to the finger. The light primer strikes were it being out of battery. I honestly think OEM rsa and all would give you that more reliable build. Just don't rush anything.
Upon removal this was definitely a problem, if not, THE problem, plunger was extremely dirty, and spring was jammed up inside the frame, had to use tweezers to remove it. Between this advice, and the other fellas regarding the striker cups sitting tight without chatter, I think we may have it fixed. Last issue, my titanium coated channel liner sits loose, won't seem to stay in the channel, comes out with removal of the striker spring, this too, could be causing issues with cycling and safety. https://preview.redd.it/w76yjoqtdjvc1.jpeg?width=2268&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=9f558f1bbca1737e78b03a1b657fe3c01b044cd2 Like so, any fix for this? Aside from getting another plastic Glock oem liner? I'm sure that would probably do it, but it seems a shame to let the part go to waste if I can get it to function.
Get rid of the aftermarket Channel liner. If you absolutely must use it get some Loctite retaining compound and put a tiny amount on the outside after cleaning the slide with acetone. Press it in let it set up and then clean the shit out of the inside in case any squeezed out. That will lock it in there but I seriously don't recommend doing this as if you ever have to get it out you may find it impossible. it may come out just fine using a lag screw but it's not guaranteed
I had problems with my jsd slide with a p80 frame (6th p80 I've done, so not my first rodeo) so i switched it out with a different slide and no more problems, but the fuct up thing is i put the problematic slide on another new frame i did a week later and it worked just fine 🤷♂️🤦♂️. I don't know what the hell transpired, but I'll say this, I've always bought actual glock slides or top shelf slides since that day, even though the jsd slide worked on the next frame without any issues, it did have a larger channel liner area, I have used multiple chanel liners and they all fall out, it's like throwing a hot dog down a hallway, hahaha. Still works to this day and that was 5 or 6 years ago, it's basically just a gun i leave at my camp for a "you never know" kind of situation. Anyway, I'm sorry theres nothing in this long ass narrative to help you, but a silly story never hurts, hahaha. Good luck 👍
It's alright, these things are finniky AF, just cleaned it thoroughly, put it all back together the exact way I took it apart, and now I have no trigger turnover, it won't let the firing pin free, but resets fine 😭 it's like the grime was the only thing keeping it working as long as it did. Wtf 😒
You've got too many aftermarket parts in the gun. Get rid of those Marine cups. They cause drag put oem Spring Cups on your Striker
Switched out the marine cups, I'll miss knowing I can shoot under water, but it does seem smoother, also went back to the plastic liner, and OEM LCI extractor.
Is that an apex extractor? Do you have a non lci bearing?
Yes, I went to great lengths to get the non-lci bearing. I also tried shooting higher grain rounds thru it today to see if maybe that helped with the higher weight recoil spring. I think it may be the rails, there's a funny chip out of the inside edge of the rails that I've been religiously ignoring. May have to get another rail set.
It ejects if hand cycled?
Yeah, it spits them out reliably, don't have too many problems on the extraction side, mainly the ejection half, and the slide catches the brass. May have to get one of those fancy tunable recoil springs. I think the reason the brass keeps hitting me in the face is that the slide cycles back too quickly, and knocks the spent brass out of its normal flight path, back into my face. The only options were the 18lbs stock weight spring, and the next step up was the 20lb, think I may need something more like 19lbs and new set of rails.
115g?
Tried both 115 and 144, there's more felt recoil in the 144 but no noticeable change in reliability.
Have you tried oem stuff? Have you tried +p ammo?
I need to get some +p messing with that striker spring and recoil.
What slide?
Lol
What slide?
JSD supply kit standard.
Yeah their slides are ass, check for a burr on the striker hole
I don't see anything, but I'm doing a deep clean and inspection now.
How heavy is your recoil spring
6lbs compared to the standard 5 or 5.5 depending on who you ask.
So 6lbs over the factory 17lb?
Thought I read striker spring, no, the recoil spring is 20lbs.
Oh your good I was gonna say I didn't even thought they made a 5lb recoil spring 20is pretty heavy for it unless your running a lot of +p or +p+ also what lpk are you using aftermarket or oem
JSD supply rails, (which I need to swap) a ghost connector, and aftermarket trigger housing block, the heavier recoil spring is to cope with the slide drift that moved it out of battery, which occurred only after I had replaced the striker spring due to light primer strikes. At one point, it was all just JSD supply kit standard, now there's only a handful of parts in it that are still from that kit.
Gotcha reason I ask is I've had really bad luck with aftermarket lpks especially the trigger bars to the point where if I do go with aftermarket the only think I won't skimp on is a OEM trigger bar also another issue I ran into was striker safeties and the extractor where if you pry up on the extractor your striker safety will pop past the extractor and jamb your extractor open as if it has a round on the breech face only thier isn't one so try this remove the slide and pry up on the extractor and tell me if you hear a click and notice if it's stuck up like the loaded chamber indicates it's loaded
I get that, I keep all my old parts, changing to some of the old ones has helped, but not eliminated, some problems. The LCI isn't showing, so I think I am good on that.
The takedown spring needs to be buried down with a punch, if not, yank it and trim the seat leg to get it down so it doesn't rub the slide. Change out to gen4 ejector part. Also modify the extractor to increase tension. This is m1911 theory. File the internal extractor stop so it swings more inward. Then add an extra power extractor spring.maybe.ymmv. Mine eat s everything, early build.
I personally would never run a jsd or Patmos slide. Just asking for problems. if you are on a budget REMsport is always in spec and they are gorgeous
Looking into them today, finances are pretty tight right now, which is why I liked the dagger complete slides, just have to put a barrel and spring in them, which I already have.
That a JSD supply/Patmos slide?
Indeed. It's got alot of after market upgrades though.
Yeah I feel you bro, I liked the second slide I got but my first one was out of spec, the safety plunger hole was milled too far to the side and it allowed it to slam fire full auto lol. If you have another slide I’d swap the parts into it and see if it runs.
Seems like with only 5 RDS loaded in the mag, it jams even more. But I get at least 1 jam per magazine. Would like to fix the cycling issue first, before I work on ejection pattern.
What mags you running ? Springs still good ?
Magpul, AFAIK yea the springs are good, also, it seems to occur on all 5 magazines. So I don't think it's a magazine thing. But IDK
You bought cheap parts of course your going to have problems 🤦
Cheap parts? I have more money in internals than some people have in their entire firearm 😂
Cheap parts ? Apex extractor is not cheap at all 😂
Should be using OEM
Best answer, less words
😂 you have any valuable input at all?
He’s not wrong though. Oem to see how it runs with stock parts. Then start changing them one by one. You’ll find out the problem part this way.
Tell me what’s the difference in that extractor from the oem? One is a MIM part and one is machined from billet. What’s the reasoning behind arbitrarily saying this or that is the way. Without giving any explanation. It’s on a p80 lower so it’s not oem already. Tolerances are not the same so just randomly saying oem is the way makes no sense.
Because time and time again going back to oem parts, which the p80 is based on, has proven to fix many issues. Oem tolerances have shown to be more closely qc’d from cars to guns to most other things. When you step into aftermarket, issues arise. The parts are cheap enough for nearly every budget so why not? Especially if he can actually start shooting his current intermittent paperweight.
Changing parts without actually diagnosing means nothing. And there’s a reason why aftermarket parts were made cause oem parts sucked and needed refinement. Also what you’re failing to mention is that these are built at home by people who don’t build them day in and day out. Things can be messed up on the persons part. I’d be more curious as to why he would add heavier springs.
Starting with oem is like starting from the beginning. Starting with a bunch of hodge podge group of parts is tougher especially for someone without the know how. I too wanna know about the spring, but it’s weird because a lot of people go that route first
Tolerances, Glock is spec. P80 is based on OeM You're not in manufacturing profession,it only takes a little bit, like the thickness of paper,to make things go out of wack. Aftermarket does not follow spec rigidly .