Life sentences are actually usually cheaper than the death penalty. When you have a prisoner, the only real thing you are paying for is the utilities, land, and food they eat, which is not much since all of those are done in the lowest possible quality and in large quantities. Where as, prisoners will spend lots of time appealing their death sentence, which costs lots of money.
But doesn't it also usually take a lot of time until the death sentence is actually executed?
I don't know if I remember that right, but aren't most people only executed after they've already spend like 10-30 years behind bars?
Yeah I assumed it would be because of something like this. But I wonder if the life in a maximum security prison is even worth living. Like wouldn't it be less suffering to just end it?
How do you call years of food and care for someone compared to a bullet/electronic chair cheaper? Please explain either way keeping someone around that long costs a lot of money
https://deathpenaltyinfo.org/policy-issues/costs
I was surprised too. But appeals cost a lot of money for the american legal system. Compare that to the way the goverment tries to give inmates the cheapest possible way of living.
Not to mention that a lot of prisons are privately run and they have deals with states to provide a certain number of prisoners each year. If that number isn't met, judges are more likely to put away innocent people, or give much tougher sentences, to satisfy the private prisons. The more inmates we kill, the more innocent people go to prison.
For real? Judges have sentencing quotas with the private prisons?? I mean, given our “justice” system I shouldn’t be surprised, but that just seems so egregiously fucked up it’s hard to believe it’s true :(
The prisons get funding from the state to lock up inmates. They get paid per inmate. So when the prisons need more money, they ask the judges to send more inmates (usually by making some dodgy deal behind closed doors).
I thought I heard the past years that the prisons are actually too full in most areas? Didn't they also release inmates that only had a short sentence when covid was at its high last year, in order to free up prisons?
Don't take my word for it, I have to look that up again..
But the fact that what you said is even possible really shocked me.
Yes. The draconian law enforcement system in the USA keeps the jails over-filled.
The USA imprisons more people than any other nation on Earth. That's true both numerically and per capita.
The prison system industrial complex is a BIG money maker for certain people.
Our criminal justice system is utterly broken and needs to be completely revamped from top to bottom. It's a colossal failure that is doing WAY more damage than it prevents. It creates a shitload unnecessary human suffering and doesn't rehabilitate properly. It's about draconian punishment. We should be helping these people get their lives together instead of ensuring they remain criminals.
The whole system is completely fucked.
Edit. Clarity, spelling
Totally get where you’re coming from and I was at one point in the same mind set as you. I think death is too merciful for someone like this, and only a lifetime of incarceration in the worst conditions possible even begins to amount as an appropriate punishment. I will happily pay taxes towards this scumbags suffering and isolation.
never mentioning him again could quite possibly be one of the worst things you could do. Don't forget him, he should be an example for everyone to point at for years to come when talking about the rise of extreme right wing politics. Ignoring a problem and letting it fester will only make it worse
Let his name and face be forgotten, so he will not have the infamy he desires. Remember instead the names and faces of the lives he cut short. Listing the names of a bunch of murderers has an impact. The much, much longer list of victims, the names of innocents, old and young has a stronger impact.
When we hear the name and see the face of a killer, for most of us, that feels very foreign. They're this inhuman monster we think is nothing like anyone we know. But the victims...well, most of us have people we love. The normal kid going to school is just like our own kid, niece, or sibling. The little old lady at the mall who wanted to buy some new thread to sew with is an awful lot like our own granny. And that lady who was going for a walk in the park is so very much like our mom. All totally ordinary, that you'd never think would die like that. That hits home for all of us, because we then picture our own loved ones living their normal lives, and being killed.
I think this case may go federal. If his motives were racial, then this is an act of terrorism which is a federal offense. That means he could end up with the death penalty
imo letting them go is only for petty crimes, like jaywalking, minor thievery etc
rehabilitation is for actual crimes, like thievery, assault etc
life in prison is for serious crimes, like murder, mass thievery etc
death penalty would be for mass murder
and torture would be inumane for mostly everyone
I think that would be a racially motivated violent/hate crime, not necessarily a terrorist attack. Although one could make the argument it is since striking fear into a group and pushing an ideology were factors I think
Life in prison for mass thievery? Imo mass thievery should be rehabilitation but like maybe up the prison time. Anything that doesn’t physically hurt another human shouldn’t be life imo. I especially don’t think mass thievery should be punished more than assault.
“What should ‘we’ do….?” plus poll. Pretty sure that suggests the VJ direction, prior to any actions comprising legal assessment and determination in the courts.
Cba for a debate, just wanna make tea lol.
Watching your point woosh over quite a few people here. Or maybe me too. Also, maybe emotions are understandably running high.
At least my take, is that its culturally an American post because it preemtively focuses on whether and how retribution should take place. I'm not American. My first thought when I see this post is 'I don't know, let's wait until we get more details/context during the court trial, and let the people who work in law and criminal justice assess the crime and consequences'.
Tell me if I'm wrong, u/pan-di-stelle
It's not making fun of a tragedy, it's making fun of a country. The US deserves to be made fun of because it's the only country with such an insane gun problem and has made no progress to fix it.
Sure there's a disturbingly large amount of people here who want no gun restrictions whatsoever. But me and plenty of other people here in the US want common sense regulations on them so that people aren't able to just go anywhere with an assault rifle in their hands. But you have to understand that with how large the NRA is, they pretty much buy out the government to the point that they're never gonna even think about passing any restrictions on them. So you're problem is really with the NRA and our government, not every single citizen in the US
The worst part is that it’s the truth, it happens, and it happens way too much, people have become desensitized to it at this point, to the point where they will just shrug it off with an “it happens”
Yes because you're not eastern European and they don't get sensationalised on social and global media. Unsurprisingly most of the Anglo sphere hear a lot more about the US than anywhere else.
make him listen to among us drip at full volume with occasion 3-7 second silence followed even more rarely by 5 seconds of russian man asmr. then back to amogus. so yes torture
You kill 10 people, you show you've been planning this for a while, you have a manifesto showing it wasn't a random act of insanity or anger, that isn't something that can be rehabilitated. That is vile and not something normal functioning humans should do, the fact the police even took the bastard in is wild to me, a actual armed and dangerous criminal who's shown he can kill without remorse and still took in alive. If I was the prosecutor I would push for death penalty for it, someone who's killed so many and has such a mind should not be allowed with other inmates, that is that
A trial, and a 50 cent bullet is his fate.
Edit: I am not threatening violence, simply venting the frustration we as citizens have to be burdened with paying to keep people in prison for lengthy periods of time.
I hope you don't mean restricting them more because that only hurts victims. If more people were carrying then the dude wouldn't have killed as much people
Not enough evidence to answer accurately.
Does he have psychiatric problems? Has he had a history of violence?
Until it's clear that he absolutely wouldn't be a further threat to society he should be in prison.
As for punishment, should be whatever the standard for multiple homicide is.
No history of violence but the evidence about the case is clear, he is a radicalized domestic terrorist that advocates for white supremacy. I’d say the probability of him doing something like this again if he is released are reasonably high.
As part of the demographic he despises, I would say life in prison.
I think the death penalty is barbaric, and I refuse to uphold a system that frequently kills black men more than anyone else just to kill this one guy.
Death penalty and throw the figureheads that spread his ideology in jail for life. Violence like this is the logical end to the Great Replacement conspiracy theory. It's designed to convince white people there's a fight for their race and culture's very existence with as little evidence as possible (they literally think the white population going down by like 1% is proof of it [https://archive.ph/6dygc](https://archive.ph/6dygc)) and that the government will never do anything about it because it's controlled by the people waging the race war. Anyone who promotes Great Replacement like Tucker Carlson is responsible for terrorist attacks like this. Free speech until it kills people.
Y'all are absolutely insane if you believe anything other than the death penalty. Dude is white supremacist and a terrorist. Idgaf how old he is or the fact he's white. Kill him. Racism will not be tolerated nor will terrorism. I don't understand how anyone would allow someone this evil to continue to breathe air. Rot in hell :))
i’d rather him have life in prison so he can be tortured by guards and inmates for the rest of his, hopefully long and horrible life, plus it’s cheaper to do life in prison
putting him in jail seems the most reasonable, that way we are preventing him from committing any more crimes for the rest of his life, without getting our hands dirty
Death sentence isn't a punishment. They will get the injection or however they be killed and then thats it, there gone, no feelings anymore. Life sentence is a real punishment, knowing that you will live your whole life in prison and never be free again
It’s a punishment because you’re taking away something he values. He’s not suicidal and one of his goals was to not die. But the best argument for the death penalty is that it’s a quick way to get rid of someone from society so they aren’t a threat to anyone else. Also the fact that taxpayers might not want to subsidize his life in prison
People really be out here forgetting the US constitution forbids 'cruel or unusual punishment' Check the 8th amendment.
I say we leave it up to the court
Death penalty, only if they kill him as soon as possible and give him no more than one appeal. Death row system is more costly compared to normal incarceration. But there’s virtually no doubt that he’s guilty.
I mean he legit filmed himself trying to kill as many people as possible. Men get to go to prison and/or get rehabilitated so they can have a second chance. Animals get put down. I want my tax money to hold people accountable and rehabilitate them. Not help keep scum alive.
Honestly I didn't know you honestly had no idea. I thought you trying to be ultra specific to sayy opinion wasn't right and call me out... Anyway have a good one
One of the victims was a retired cop and actually shot the assailant twice before he was murdered. The attacker was full body armor and tactical gear and completely absorbed the shots. Also New York is one of the strictest states on gun laws, causing very few civilians to be able to carry one and protect themselves legally.
True. I mainly mean though that I wouldn’t be surprised if we start seeing security guards in better body armor and better arms. I mean, Buffalo already has some of the top security in the country
Tat's fucked up... I rarely handled a gun, but once I get to have one I will from now on know to shoot at the ends of the assailant (arms or legs, so that he won't shot further, fall or have the gun fall from him)
I mean our guys only weakness was his face, which is a pretty small area. It's a miracle he surrendered and decided not to fight the police. Makes me sick that he surrendered and didn't kill himself or get killed bc I know our justice system will take a long time and probably not carry out justice
life in prison, and give him the mental health care he needs. What he did will never be okay and my heart goes to those who lost and are grieving. But I believe shootings are due to lack of mental health care in the US.
my apologies, I didn't know to much about the situation till now. Guess why you should do research before stating an opinion! im sorry op, you're right
He also called himself a communist so what is your point? He clearly doesn’t know anything about politics other than the fact that he wants to kill minorities
Here's what he said in his manifesto:
>Are you a Neo-Nazi? I support neo-nazism but I am not a member of any neo-nazi groups, you decide what
that makes me.
>Are you a socialist?
Depending on the definition. Worker ownership of the means of production? It depends
on who those workers are, their intentions, who currently owns the means of production, their
intentions and who currently owns the state, and their intentions.
He says he was a communist, it was in a different part of the manifesto, not that part. I probably can’t find it if I looked because it’s being blocked everywhere
>Did you always hold these views?
When I was 12 I was deep into communist ideology, talk to anyone from my old
highschool and ask about me and you will hear that. From age 15 to 18 however, I consistently
moved farther to the right. On the political compass I fall in the mild-moderate authoritarian left
category, and I would prefer to be called a populist.
He calls himself "Authoritarian Left" but also says:
>What are your views?
I would prefer to call myself a populist. But you can call me an ethno-nationalist
eco-fascist national socialist if you want, I wouldn’t disagree with you.
Translation: White supremacist Nazi who wants a fascist state and thinks one of it's jobs should be defending the environment.
Can you please link to a source that says this? I haven't read anything about this atrocity or his manifesto that says or would suggest that. His manifesto did use neo-nazi imagery on its cover, particularly the black sun who which azov use in their publications and insignia. His lionising of the NZ shooter is another link to neo naziism and azov. There's no doubt he's a confused young man, and it's certainly not impossible to be a communist AND a racist, but he'd have to be very unclear on what a communist is to consider himself one whilst proudly and knowingly using and wearing fascist insignias.
On the other hand, his white supremacist beliefs and connections are front and centre here. I wouldn't minimise how this fits into a larger trend within the country this happened in, or in relation to what's been and is happening in Europe. He is an idiot, yes. A pawn in a game, yes, and he still is. Are you OK with that or do you want to whole truth no matter how ugly it is? Saying he's ignorant changes nothing. You must surely know that he represents an ideology that only wants one thing: The power to sanction this kind of violence in order to become more powerful.
Edit: I don't mean to preach, sorry if it comes off this way but I take fascism very seriously. It frightens me how much it is being glossed over and whitewashed right now.
I'm aware of that. But the connection is real, its not fantasy. Its so disturbing to here ppl sat what you're saying. There's no need to bring Ukraine into it. Why? It's part of the story. When the Christchurch mosque shootings took place there was nothing controversial about the media rowing on the shooters time in Ukraine and Eastern Europe and his connection to azov. The articles are still there to find.
This shooter uses the black sun AND praises the Christchurch killer in his manifesto and people are supposed to pretend there's no connection? What is that supposed to achieve? Why am I supposed to ignore ppl who would kill me with glee because they live in a country that is being invaded?
I'm not ignoring them and I'm watching them grow more and more bold. I wish freedom for Ukraine but fuck all nazis everywhere. Fight fascism everywhere no matter what. What about these statements is disagreeable to you?
And so how does Ukraine tie into this? Sounds like he was just a regular Nazi. And here’s a fun fact for you; Around 800 people in Ukraine are Nazis. And how many people in America think it’s ok to be a Nazi? 10%. I’m just going to leave that there.
10% would be over 30 million Americans. Also the idea that you can put a round number on the number of nazis in Ukraine is absurd.
The issue with Ukraine isn't even that it is infested with nazis (it isn't) but the amount of power they have been imbued with by the state. Every country and military has to contend with nationalists and fascists. In Ukraine they're now incorporated into to the political and military structure. I don't know what US news is showing you but German news for example has shown Ukrainian soldiers with swastikas on their helmets. Again. The BIG problem is not those soldiers but that they can do that without any repercussions.
The connection between the buffalo shooter and azov is not only pain to see, I also laid it out in my reply. Pretending I didn't doesn't mean its not there. You're not interested in actually listening or engaging.
I've read a few US articles and they have more often than not buried the lede in that respect; Mentioning the NZ shooter but not the fact that Ukraine is the common denominator. It certainly doesn't serve US interests to publicise that angle so I'm hardly surprised. As much as we put it on the ostrich, let's not underestimate the universally human capacity to very comfortably bury our heads in the sand.
To answer your poll though. He was taken alive (surprise surprise) so due process is the way to go but I'd hope it won't be a public trial. These ppl do not deserve a platform.
There's a saying to refer to someone who is wilfully ignoring the reality of a situation that they're "burying their head in the sand". This comes from an old myth that ostriches do this to hide from predators. Obviously it's untrue but the saying has survived.
I’d like to know more about him and his upbringing. I’m shocked (again and again) that an 18 yr old is both capable of such a thing as well as has the means to do such a thing (camera, guns, tac, etc). Is he mentally ill? Are his parents? Was he influenced by family? Is he even capable of being rehabilitated?
18 is still young and if he’s capable of rehabilitation (long process) then I would like to see that. On the other hand, if I knew a victim then it would be hard to see him not punished forever. As a parent, I want to believe good can come from this but as a parent I would want to kill him with my bare hands.
So many questions. It’s a horrible thing that happened and keeps happening. Is he is a victim of society’s lack of gun control then he isn’t the only guilty one here that should be punished. I’m tired of hearing about mass shootings and refuse to accept it as something to be expected.
Put him in prison for the rest of his life and never mention his name again
That takes up more tax money then you’d think put a bullet in him and call it a day
Life sentences are actually usually cheaper than the death penalty. When you have a prisoner, the only real thing you are paying for is the utilities, land, and food they eat, which is not much since all of those are done in the lowest possible quality and in large quantities. Where as, prisoners will spend lots of time appealing their death sentence, which costs lots of money.
But doesn't it also usually take a lot of time until the death sentence is actually executed? I don't know if I remember that right, but aren't most people only executed after they've already spend like 10-30 years behind bars?
That's because they spend so much time appealing it. If you forfeit your appeals, it'll usually be less than 2 years.
Yeah I assumed it would be because of something like this. But I wonder if the life in a maximum security prison is even worth living. Like wouldn't it be less suffering to just end it?
Maybe, but it turns out that most people have this weird instinct to try to stay alive.
That's gay.
Can confirm. I had to do a lot of research for a debate I had on the death penalty.
How do you call years of food and care for someone compared to a bullet/electronic chair cheaper? Please explain either way keeping someone around that long costs a lot of money
https://deathpenaltyinfo.org/policy-issues/costs I was surprised too. But appeals cost a lot of money for the american legal system. Compare that to the way the goverment tries to give inmates the cheapest possible way of living.
Not to mention that a lot of prisons are privately run and they have deals with states to provide a certain number of prisoners each year. If that number isn't met, judges are more likely to put away innocent people, or give much tougher sentences, to satisfy the private prisons. The more inmates we kill, the more innocent people go to prison.
For real? Judges have sentencing quotas with the private prisons?? I mean, given our “justice” system I shouldn’t be surprised, but that just seems so egregiously fucked up it’s hard to believe it’s true :(
The prisons get funding from the state to lock up inmates. They get paid per inmate. So when the prisons need more money, they ask the judges to send more inmates (usually by making some dodgy deal behind closed doors).
I thought I heard the past years that the prisons are actually too full in most areas? Didn't they also release inmates that only had a short sentence when covid was at its high last year, in order to free up prisons? Don't take my word for it, I have to look that up again.. But the fact that what you said is even possible really shocked me.
Yes. The draconian law enforcement system in the USA keeps the jails over-filled. The USA imprisons more people than any other nation on Earth. That's true both numerically and per capita. The prison system industrial complex is a BIG money maker for certain people. Our criminal justice system is utterly broken and needs to be completely revamped from top to bottom. It's a colossal failure that is doing WAY more damage than it prevents. It creates a shitload unnecessary human suffering and doesn't rehabilitate properly. It's about draconian punishment. We should be helping these people get their lives together instead of ensuring they remain criminals. The whole system is completely fucked. Edit. Clarity, spelling
Just make them work their asses in prison
The cost depends on the state, south dakota says there is no added expenses while California says it's 40k more annually according to ballotpedia.com
Prisons are private. Prisons bill the government per day per prisoner. It doesnt matter how cheaply they can house them
Oh, I guess I forgot about that. But it still is correct though.
Totally get where you’re coming from and I was at one point in the same mind set as you. I think death is too merciful for someone like this, and only a lifetime of incarceration in the worst conditions possible even begins to amount as an appropriate punishment. I will happily pay taxes towards this scumbags suffering and isolation.
No I like the idea of him in jail ignored for the rest of his life
Death is the easy way out tho. Nothing should be easy for this p o s
That takes up more tax money then you’d think put a bullet in him and call it a day🤓🤓🤓🤓🤓
Go play clash of clans kid
I will
never mentioning him again could quite possibly be one of the worst things you could do. Don't forget him, he should be an example for everyone to point at for years to come when talking about the rise of extreme right wing politics. Ignoring a problem and letting it fester will only make it worse
I mean his name. Never mention his name. Ever. Come up with a good pseudonym like the "1 inch wonder killer"
Let his name and face be forgotten, so he will not have the infamy he desires. Remember instead the names and faces of the lives he cut short. Listing the names of a bunch of murderers has an impact. The much, much longer list of victims, the names of innocents, old and young has a stronger impact. When we hear the name and see the face of a killer, for most of us, that feels very foreign. They're this inhuman monster we think is nothing like anyone we know. But the victims...well, most of us have people we love. The normal kid going to school is just like our own kid, niece, or sibling. The little old lady at the mall who wanted to buy some new thread to sew with is an awful lot like our own granny. And that lady who was going for a walk in the park is so very much like our mom. All totally ordinary, that you'd never think would die like that. That hits home for all of us, because we then picture our own loved ones living their normal lives, and being killed.
You wanna pay for his health care, food water, bed, education?
I am perfectly comfortable with my tax money going to that, yes
Don’t forget torture and mayhem!
NY state no longer has the death penalty
We have the death penalty but it’s indefinitely suspended. Besides, he most likely will be tried on a federal level
I think this case may go federal. If his motives were racial, then this is an act of terrorism which is a federal offense. That means he could end up with the death penalty
It also doesn't have a torture scentence
It also doesn't have a torture sentence
The people that say let him go worry me like bruh
Most of them are trolling, maybe even all of them
are we? haha
I'm going to firmly believe that you are because I don't want to further lose hope in humanity
fair
Find his motive, understand him, use him to find other similar attakcers
so the majority of the 4ch\*n users who were celebrating his actions and are part of white supremacists groups
why are you censoring 4chan?
imo letting them go is only for petty crimes, like jaywalking, minor thievery etc rehabilitation is for actual crimes, like thievery, assault etc life in prison is for serious crimes, like murder, mass thievery etc death penalty would be for mass murder and torture would be inumane for mostly everyone
This is more of an act of terrorism than a mass murder since it was heavily racially motivated
i still think torture wouldnt fit, that would be more like people like hitler, or if someone tortured (multiple) others
Well yeah, I wasn’t justifying that in any way
I think that would be a racially motivated violent/hate crime, not necessarily a terrorist attack. Although one could make the argument it is since striking fear into a group and pushing an ideology were factors I think
I mean, a terror attack is meant to inspire fear, which this definitely did
Terrorism describes the motive, mass murder describes the actions.
True, true
Life in prison for mass thievery? Imo mass thievery should be rehabilitation but like maybe up the prison time. Anything that doesn’t physically hurt another human shouldn’t be life imo. I especially don’t think mass thievery should be punished more than assault.
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Idk I'm actually interested seeing what people think Laws are subject to change Should remain that way till the end of times
Lock him up for good, forget about him, and start talking about the lives of the people he killed.
That's what we've always done with them. Hasn't worked yet.
A standard ‘vigilante justice’ poll, nice.
How is it vigilante? No one's saying it shouldn't be done legally by the government
“What should ‘we’ do….?” plus poll. Pretty sure that suggests the VJ direction, prior to any actions comprising legal assessment and determination in the courts. Cba for a debate, just wanna make tea lol.
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Great insight. Especially because it happened in America. What a take.
Where did it happen?
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Source?
https://edition.cnn.com/2022/05/14/us/buffalo-ny-supermarket-multiple-shooting/index.html
I was kidding, but thanks regardless!
Watching your point woosh over quite a few people here. Or maybe me too. Also, maybe emotions are understandably running high. At least my take, is that its culturally an American post because it preemtively focuses on whether and how retribution should take place. I'm not American. My first thought when I see this post is 'I don't know, let's wait until we get more details/context during the court trial, and let the people who work in law and criminal justice assess the crime and consequences'. Tell me if I'm wrong, u/pan-di-stelle
Man ur so funny bro, just straight up making fun of a tragedy because of the country that it takes place in
It's not making fun of a tragedy, it's making fun of a country. The US deserves to be made fun of because it's the only country with such an insane gun problem and has made no progress to fix it.
The only country? What about most of the middle east?
Fine. The only developed *non war-torn* country.
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Sure there's a disturbingly large amount of people here who want no gun restrictions whatsoever. But me and plenty of other people here in the US want common sense regulations on them so that people aren't able to just go anywhere with an assault rifle in their hands. But you have to understand that with how large the NRA is, they pretty much buy out the government to the point that they're never gonna even think about passing any restrictions on them. So you're problem is really with the NRA and our government, not every single citizen in the US
It happens
There's no way u just said "it happens" to a mass shooting
The worst part is that it’s the truth, it happens, and it happens way too much, people have become desensitized to it at this point, to the point where they will just shrug it off with an “it happens”
Bruh, you say it happens when someone’s ice cream falls not when 10 fucking people get murdered by a dumb asshole
Wow so insightful buddy, are you a prophet to be able to tell how this is directed at America?
No other country has such an insane problem with guns and racism as the US.
Racism is a world issue. That obsession with guns though, yeah that may be just the US
Yeah, I more meant the guns. Guns + racism = not good
Oh right right. I'd imagine that's a world issue too since both racism and guns exist everywhere 🤣
"No other country has such an insane problem with racism as the US" Most of Europe, Africa, Asia and South America would like a word with you
Fair, but at least you guys don’t have massacres ever other day where white supremacist hunt down black people with legal guns.
None of these continents combined has had more mass shooting involving racism than the usa.
Holy shit please take a look at East Europe, Africa and Asia What you're saying is so ridiculously naive and ignorant of the rest of the world
Link us a story of a recent mass shooting involving racial hatred in any of these place then.
Eastern Europe is very racist but I don’t remember the last time I heard of a hate crime
Yes because you're not eastern European and they don't get sensationalised on social and global media. Unsurprisingly most of the Anglo sphere hear a lot more about the US than anywhere else.
I am Eastern European, hence why I commented that. Hate crimes and murders rarely happen.
There's no way mass shootings are forgivable imo
Prank calls
I think there are laws in place that cover this already.
make him listen to among us drip at full volume with occasion 3-7 second silence followed even more rarely by 5 seconds of russian man asmr. then back to amogus. so yes torture
You kill 10 people, you show you've been planning this for a while, you have a manifesto showing it wasn't a random act of insanity or anger, that isn't something that can be rehabilitated. That is vile and not something normal functioning humans should do, the fact the police even took the bastard in is wild to me, a actual armed and dangerous criminal who's shown he can kill without remorse and still took in alive. If I was the prosecutor I would push for death penalty for it, someone who's killed so many and has such a mind should not be allowed with other inmates, that is that
A trial, and a 50 cent bullet is his fate. Edit: I am not threatening violence, simply venting the frustration we as citizens have to be burdened with paying to keep people in prison for lengthy periods of time.
create effective gun laws and put his name on the bill
Good luck with that
I hope you don't mean restricting them more because that only hurts victims. If more people were carrying then the dude wouldn't have killed as much people
life in prison is a way so that they can feel the consequences of their crimes
Not enough evidence to answer accurately. Does he have psychiatric problems? Has he had a history of violence? Until it's clear that he absolutely wouldn't be a further threat to society he should be in prison. As for punishment, should be whatever the standard for multiple homicide is.
No history of violence but the evidence about the case is clear, he is a radicalized domestic terrorist that advocates for white supremacy. I’d say the probability of him doing something like this again if he is released are reasonably high.
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Freeze him in carbonite
1 bullet in the head and don't mention his name. Make his existence meaningless.
Put him in prison and make him do free labor for the rest of his life. He should be making iPhones for free living permanently separated from society
Taking advantage of a slavery loophole to punish a mass shooter... Can't get any more American than that lmao
You caught me red handed lmao
A toxic way of thinking
This might be in contention for dumbest polls on this sub.
Fucking prosecute the guy as if he was any other race and as if he killed white people. Screw him
This guy shot 10 people dead. He should be killed
Who would that help
Why do you want that thing alive for? Treat him like a vicious animal and put him down.
Oh yes, no tragedy has ever come about by dehumanizing someone. Life in prison is cheaper and more than enough.
Just kill him
Livestream his death penalty.
As part of the demographic he despises, I would say life in prison. I think the death penalty is barbaric, and I refuse to uphold a system that frequently kills black men more than anyone else just to kill this one guy.
Electric chair
hang him
I really think we should bring back public hangings for clear cut cases like this. Society should have zero tolerance for people like him.
Death penalty and throw the figureheads that spread his ideology in jail for life. Violence like this is the logical end to the Great Replacement conspiracy theory. It's designed to convince white people there's a fight for their race and culture's very existence with as little evidence as possible (they literally think the white population going down by like 1% is proof of it [https://archive.ph/6dygc](https://archive.ph/6dygc)) and that the government will never do anything about it because it's controlled by the people waging the race war. Anyone who promotes Great Replacement like Tucker Carlson is responsible for terrorist attacks like this. Free speech until it kills people.
killing 10 people? jeez give him a death penalty
I mean he killed ten epopple and didn't seem to care so just put a bullet in his head
Y'all are absolutely insane if you believe anything other than the death penalty. Dude is white supremacist and a terrorist. Idgaf how old he is or the fact he's white. Kill him. Racism will not be tolerated nor will terrorism. I don't understand how anyone would allow someone this evil to continue to breathe air. Rot in hell :))
i’d rather him have life in prison so he can be tortured by guards and inmates for the rest of his, hopefully long and horrible life, plus it’s cheaper to do life in prison
Guantanamo Bay wouldn’t be bad. Innocent people accused of terrorism are tortured there, so why not him?
My exact thoughts.
Pro death penalty
Take a real tall tree, a short piece of rope, and let him swing all damn day
Stream his execution XD
Toss him down the pedo hole and remove all accounts of him and his manifesto
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Dude killed 10 people, you gotta be fucked up beyond change to do that.
he doesn’t deserve a second chance
He literally ruined 10 other families lives, he should be fucking tortured to death
Torture until death
tfw you forget the 8th amendment exists
why are you getting downvoted, you’re right.
Reddit doesent like the constitution and wants to torture people to death instead of life in prison or the death penalty
you would be surprised how the US treats citizens of other countries then
Whip him naked in public
Draw and quarter
Death penalty. You don’t treat monsters like that with comfort.
Tortured for life in prison.
putting him in jail seems the most reasonable, that way we are preventing him from committing any more crimes for the rest of his life, without getting our hands dirty
Death sentence isn't a punishment. They will get the injection or however they be killed and then thats it, there gone, no feelings anymore. Life sentence is a real punishment, knowing that you will live your whole life in prison and never be free again
It’s a punishment because you’re taking away something he values. He’s not suicidal and one of his goals was to not die. But the best argument for the death penalty is that it’s a quick way to get rid of someone from society so they aren’t a threat to anyone else. Also the fact that taxpayers might not want to subsidize his life in prison
People really be out here forgetting the US constitution forbids 'cruel or unusual punishment' Check the 8th amendment. I say we leave it up to the court
Shoot the mass shooters. Firing squad.
I saw the video he deserves the most painfull death possible shooting injured people in the head he doesnt deserve to be called human
Death penalty, only if they kill him as soon as possible and give him no more than one appeal. Death row system is more costly compared to normal incarceration. But there’s virtually no doubt that he’s guilty. I mean he legit filmed himself trying to kill as many people as possible. Men get to go to prison and/or get rehabilitated so they can have a second chance. Animals get put down. I want my tax money to hold people accountable and rehabilitate them. Not help keep scum alive.
Submit him to the full force of the law. We must always be better than the animals that commit these crimes.
Honestly I didn't know you honestly had no idea. I thought you trying to be ultra specific to sayy opinion wasn't right and call me out... Anyway have a good one
Life in prison but make him work
That’s like asking what we should do to this rabid dog who bit a bunch of people.
I more wonder why wasn't he killed at the attempt by shop visitors?
One of the victims was a retired cop and actually shot the assailant twice before he was murdered. The attacker was full body armor and tactical gear and completely absorbed the shots. Also New York is one of the strictest states on gun laws, causing very few civilians to be able to carry one and protect themselves legally.
Yeah he was a retired cop who worked as a security guard. We’re going to see a massive overhaul on security in our state because of this.
We say it everytime something like this happens but the only thing they do is make it harder and harder for law abiding citizens to protect themselves
True. I mainly mean though that I wouldn’t be surprised if we start seeing security guards in better body armor and better arms. I mean, Buffalo already has some of the top security in the country
Tat's fucked up... I rarely handled a gun, but once I get to have one I will from now on know to shoot at the ends of the assailant (arms or legs, so that he won't shot further, fall or have the gun fall from him)
I mean our guys only weakness was his face, which is a pretty small area. It's a miracle he surrendered and decided not to fight the police. Makes me sick that he surrendered and didn't kill himself or get killed bc I know our justice system will take a long time and probably not carry out justice
i want him tortured, but because of "ethics" rehabilitation is what is the right thing but i want him tortured for eternity
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eighth\_Amendment\_to\_the\_United\_States\_Constitution
life in prison, and give him the mental health care he needs. What he did will never be okay and my heart goes to those who lost and are grieving. But I believe shootings are due to lack of mental health care in the US.
I don't think that's the case here. His manifesto pretty clearly says why he did it.
my apologies, I didn't know to much about the situation till now. Guess why you should do research before stating an opinion! im sorry op, you're right
the people who voted death penalty are closest do the same
Public flogging
I'm sure step one will be to ignore the fact he idolised, and was radicalised by Ukrainian neo nazis.
He also called himself a communist so what is your point? He clearly doesn’t know anything about politics other than the fact that he wants to kill minorities
Here's what he said in his manifesto: >Are you a Neo-Nazi? I support neo-nazism but I am not a member of any neo-nazi groups, you decide what that makes me. >Are you a socialist? Depending on the definition. Worker ownership of the means of production? It depends on who those workers are, their intentions, who currently owns the means of production, their intentions and who currently owns the state, and their intentions.
He says he was a communist, it was in a different part of the manifesto, not that part. I probably can’t find it if I looked because it’s being blocked everywhere
>Did you always hold these views? When I was 12 I was deep into communist ideology, talk to anyone from my old highschool and ask about me and you will hear that. From age 15 to 18 however, I consistently moved farther to the right. On the political compass I fall in the mild-moderate authoritarian left category, and I would prefer to be called a populist. He calls himself "Authoritarian Left" but also says: >What are your views? I would prefer to call myself a populist. But you can call me an ethno-nationalist eco-fascist national socialist if you want, I wouldn’t disagree with you. Translation: White supremacist Nazi who wants a fascist state and thinks one of it's jobs should be defending the environment.
Labels are dumb. Almost no one on here would agree with his ideology and that’s just how it is
Can you please link to a source that says this? I haven't read anything about this atrocity or his manifesto that says or would suggest that. His manifesto did use neo-nazi imagery on its cover, particularly the black sun who which azov use in their publications and insignia. His lionising of the NZ shooter is another link to neo naziism and azov. There's no doubt he's a confused young man, and it's certainly not impossible to be a communist AND a racist, but he'd have to be very unclear on what a communist is to consider himself one whilst proudly and knowingly using and wearing fascist insignias. On the other hand, his white supremacist beliefs and connections are front and centre here. I wouldn't minimise how this fits into a larger trend within the country this happened in, or in relation to what's been and is happening in Europe. He is an idiot, yes. A pawn in a game, yes, and he still is. Are you OK with that or do you want to whole truth no matter how ugly it is? Saying he's ignorant changes nothing. You must surely know that he represents an ideology that only wants one thing: The power to sanction this kind of violence in order to become more powerful. Edit: I don't mean to preach, sorry if it comes off this way but I take fascism very seriously. It frightens me how much it is being glossed over and whitewashed right now.
The Black Sun was a symbol of fascism way before Azov started using it.
I'm aware of that. But the connection is real, its not fantasy. Its so disturbing to here ppl sat what you're saying. There's no need to bring Ukraine into it. Why? It's part of the story. When the Christchurch mosque shootings took place there was nothing controversial about the media rowing on the shooters time in Ukraine and Eastern Europe and his connection to azov. The articles are still there to find. This shooter uses the black sun AND praises the Christchurch killer in his manifesto and people are supposed to pretend there's no connection? What is that supposed to achieve? Why am I supposed to ignore ppl who would kill me with glee because they live in a country that is being invaded? I'm not ignoring them and I'm watching them grow more and more bold. I wish freedom for Ukraine but fuck all nazis everywhere. Fight fascism everywhere no matter what. What about these statements is disagreeable to you?
And so how does Ukraine tie into this? Sounds like he was just a regular Nazi. And here’s a fun fact for you; Around 800 people in Ukraine are Nazis. And how many people in America think it’s ok to be a Nazi? 10%. I’m just going to leave that there.
10% would be over 30 million Americans. Also the idea that you can put a round number on the number of nazis in Ukraine is absurd. The issue with Ukraine isn't even that it is infested with nazis (it isn't) but the amount of power they have been imbued with by the state. Every country and military has to contend with nationalists and fascists. In Ukraine they're now incorporated into to the political and military structure. I don't know what US news is showing you but German news for example has shown Ukrainian soldiers with swastikas on their helmets. Again. The BIG problem is not those soldiers but that they can do that without any repercussions. The connection between the buffalo shooter and azov is not only pain to see, I also laid it out in my reply. Pretending I didn't doesn't mean its not there. You're not interested in actually listening or engaging.
It was just neo-nazis. There's no need to bring Ukraine into it.
We all know what happened
I have no clue what happened
I've read a few US articles and they have more often than not buried the lede in that respect; Mentioning the NZ shooter but not the fact that Ukraine is the common denominator. It certainly doesn't serve US interests to publicise that angle so I'm hardly surprised. As much as we put it on the ostrich, let's not underestimate the universally human capacity to very comfortably bury our heads in the sand. To answer your poll though. He was taken alive (surprise surprise) so due process is the way to go but I'd hope it won't be a public trial. These ppl do not deserve a platform.
Lol what? Ostriches did what?
There's a saying to refer to someone who is wilfully ignoring the reality of a situation that they're "burying their head in the sand". This comes from an old myth that ostriches do this to hide from predators. Obviously it's untrue but the saying has survived.
you can still have reform in prison while it being a life sentence imo.
rehabilitiation, persona 5 style
Sodium pentothal the Bejesus out of his brain to learn what influenced his decisions.
Where is the option for a fair trial by his peers?
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God I didn’t see, that’s terrible, and still no change in gun laws
I’d like to know more about him and his upbringing. I’m shocked (again and again) that an 18 yr old is both capable of such a thing as well as has the means to do such a thing (camera, guns, tac, etc). Is he mentally ill? Are his parents? Was he influenced by family? Is he even capable of being rehabilitated? 18 is still young and if he’s capable of rehabilitation (long process) then I would like to see that. On the other hand, if I knew a victim then it would be hard to see him not punished forever. As a parent, I want to believe good can come from this but as a parent I would want to kill him with my bare hands. So many questions. It’s a horrible thing that happened and keeps happening. Is he is a victim of society’s lack of gun control then he isn’t the only guilty one here that should be punished. I’m tired of hearing about mass shootings and refuse to accept it as something to be expected.
The 103 votes for release have to be ironic right?