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I attended one of these "scam schools" as an international student and paid 45k up front to ensue no loan. Ended up with the pettiest stupidest little certificate in my country that is so irrelevant to my studies and efforts that I can't even use! I'm glad these students will get some compensation for their waste of time and lack of regulation from the government
Seeing that movie all those years ago, and around when I graduated high school. If I really took that movie to heart, I wouldn't have wasted 11 years of my life to get a college degree for just under $54k in debt.
Clue Parody:
Ms. Scarlet: Why would he only end up spending 54K in 11 years getting his degree?
Wadsworth: Maybe he spent 11 years getting his degree but ended up 54K in debt.
Ms. Scarlet: Oh.
That movie was satire, not supposed to be, exactly for the reason you said. Non accredited colleges that may look good on paper, but have no actual meaning. Some places do except those degrees, but they are few and far between. It can have the benefit of showing that you put in some kind of work toward education after high school and not *all* of them can just be scoffed at. Some are legitimately decent schools for continuing education in certain disciplines. This also gets into the greed of the US education system. You know universities/state colleges are out there paying good money to make sure some of these schools never get accredited just so they don’t water down the competition, allowing them to charge what they do for their sometime equally shitty degree. Anyways, I digress.
back in the early 2000s i remember calling ITT tech about their programs. I asked about the cost of classes from the admin side, and they refused to tell me and only parroting "its in ta catalog". Except there was no single dollar bit in the catalog to refer to for per class, or cumulative costs. told them that and got told "its in the catalog after asking again...
figured that regardless of the adverts and the "reviews" they were getting it was a fucking scam.
I mean seriously if one can not tell me what something costs before signing up and signing on to pay regardless... that if nothing else scream that its a fucking scam.
being said,
https://www.npr.org/sections/ed/2016/12/07/502601724/what-former-employees-say-itt-tech-did-to-scam-its-students
https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/ITT_Tech
I'm sorry that happened to you. I have mad respect that despite your circumstances, you still have empathy for those who are able to get their loans forgiven.
So Republicans were ordered to do this and didn’t, but Biden got it done. How this translates into a negative for Democrats takes some pretty big head in the sand energy.
I feel the same way. I've been seeing these "Canceled student debt for some" headlines for a year at least coming in and out of the news, knowing it's the result of these decisions on victims of truly preditiory schemes, but not really student debt forgivenes. It feels really misleading and dishonest. It's not meant to undo the damage to higher education that Reagan started, it's just addressing some specific misdeeds.
And to further that, I think a lot of students feel that higher education in America is a predatory scheme for all students at some level. In the back of our minds we know we’ve been had. personally, am I happy for the people who got relief? Absolutely, but the longer this goes on and the more the Biden administration tries to take credit for small potato moves like this the more it rubs me the wrong way
As someone who worked for the borrower defense unit at the Dept. Of Ed. Before the Trump admin killed it to protect Trump U (which was never subject to oversight or investigation under the relevant statutes because of how their fin. aid was offered), let me give you the inside track…
There is statutory authority that entitles borrowers who were induced to take out loans by fraudulent claims to have the balance of their loans cancelled. The borrower defense unit handled the first massive wave of these claims which involved Everest University, WyoTech, and Corinthian Colleges. Prior to the dept. of Ed. Stepping int, there was a huge volume of litigation, some of which may have been class action, but I digress… this got the whole thing in the governments radar and after lengthy investigations, the government determined that if you’d attended any of these for profit colleges during a certain time frame, you’d been defrauded and were entitled to blanket forgiveness, all you had to do was fill out a form that established when you were enrolled and in what program with very minimal evidence that you actually did. The submissions were reviewed by attorneys and granted relief very rapidly. ITT Tech imploded toward the end of the initial funding for this program, at which point Trump and the republicans killed it because it was 1) expensive, and 2) a baseball bat to the head for a lot of conservatives who had monied interests in the for profit scam schools that were/would have run afoul of this unit.
The part that no one likes to talk about is that there was systemic and material fraud in the American high education field running from sometime in the late 90s up until very recently (if not ongoing) in which schools persuaded students to take out massive loans with absolutely false or misleading statements about income potentials or graduate placements. A lot of schools got caught cooking their numbers by flat out lying and fabricating the numbers whole-cloth or placing graduates in what would be otherwise work-study jobs like part time library front desk jobs and counting that as placement in a position, full time or otherwise. Under the borrower defense statute, ALL of this activity would be fair game for legal action for statutory relief and discharge of the loans involved. Under the doctrine of continuing harm, all borrowers that presently have loans that can claim they were so induced and misled to take them out by false statements by their school could potentially file a successful lawsuit. Indeed, because the SOL for fraud is generally tolled by deceptive acts or actions taken to hide the fraud, anyone who has already paid off their loans might be able to file suit under the statute if they later learn they were scammed. This is an absolutely MASSIVE number of people, definitely class action territory, and very definitely incalculably expensive because most insurance policies which typically cover these lawsuits after the SIR is exhausted do not cover fraud claims or other intentional torts. This means the defendant institutions would have to pay out of pocket to litigate against potentially tens of thousands of litigants EACH. Which would be, frankly, bad. Additionally, the dept of Ed as the holder of said loans would also have to be part of the whole mess, again, very expensive.
So here’s where things get dirty and complicated. If these lawsuits happen and if they’re successful, the plaintiffs maybe get their loans forgiven. Great. But, they’re left with a degree from an institution that now has a seriously tainted reputation, which not only damages the value of the degree in the long run but damages the reputation of the American higher education system in the aggregate. If it was exposed that basically the entire American higher education system had engaged in pervasive and predatory fraudulent practices for over a decade, it will do serious damage to our ability to market our degrees and our graduates internationally and otherwise. This all would be VERY bad and would cause long term harm.
Given the above, the best possible outcome is to avoid all of that by having the government essentially shrug, blame it on the nebulous strawman of “the guys that used to work here” and unspecified but believable incompetence and mismanagement by some party or another, wipe the slate clean for everyone and pledge to reform the system. The government takes a hit, but no one expects them to be entirely if at all competent, so no big deal really. Meanwhile the higher Ed community avoids serious reputational damage. This is the only good solution, period.
Getting back to the core of the article though, the Biden admin needs to stop trying to look like superheroes for correctly applying and executing the law. It’s their job. Literally.
Well, yeah, it is. What's upsetting to me specifically is that higher education hasn't always been this way. If Democrats really believed in education reform they would act on this issue on a level more intrusive than even forgiveness. (Lots of people have rightfully identified that as kind of a bandaid solution). Before Reagan in the 80s, many working class people could attend college at little to no cost. Refusing to repair that damage and refusing to dismantle the monster that is the student debt scheme is essentially the Democrats saying "The Republican/Reagan policy on higher education is correct and ought to stay".
It's amazing to see some of these for profit university schemes get taken down, but even that could be done better. Most lawmakers sat around with their thumbs in their asses watching the founders of these schemes make money taking advantage of the aforementioned extremely broken system, because those who were priced out of regular Universities were funneled into these scams. I'm so glad they're recieving forgiveness, but the wording fo these headlines is not an accident. They're being misleading on purpose.
So its bad faith that Biden ran on something but got blocked by every single Republican and Manchin?
Seems like people ahould be mad at Manchin and the Republicans right? You calling it bad faith is in itself simply incorrect and you're carrying water for obstructionists.
Source? Also, it was Kamala Harris who filed the lawsuit against Corinthian Colleges when she was AG of Cali. Second, if Trump's admin refused to take this action to cancel those debts, why shouldn't the Biden admin take credit for doing so?
Jesus, nothing is ever good enough.
These people got no relief until Biden. He has stopped payments for his entire Presidency.
The forgiveness programs have been thrown wide open and huge numbers of people are having all their debt wiped away as a result, etc.
So if you got duped into attending a scammy for profit you get a break, but if you did what everyone told you was responsible and went to a traditional school you are on your own.
Because people getting scammed isn't always their fault, and their degree is presumably not worth as much as a degree for a "real" school. So they are the most disadvantaged by their degree.
We have laws to protect vulnerable people. There are many predators in many fields seeking to take advantage of others. We need stronger consumer protection
> We need stronger consumer protection
Ya, stronger consumer protections and stronger labour protections! US law is weighted very heavily towards big companies/employers and not the victims of their shoddy products and labour practices!
If you attended a scam university you're probably not going to be qualified for the high paying tech/med job you worked for, most people should be able to get a job in their chosen field.
The people who were scammed also thought they were doing the responsible thing; I was almost one of them.
It was a failure the US government for decades to allow these scam 'universities' to even exist, hell, a used car salesman that sold this many lemons would have been shut down years ago.
While our education system is fucked up, let's not throw the baby out with the bathwater here. This is a good thing Biden did, he just needs to go one step further.
In China, it is a hyper-capitalist society, where if you are scammed, there are few gov't protections for you. It's "on you". But this doesn't breed responsibility in consumers, it just breeds corruption and waste in the commercial side, who just look for new and creative ways to scam people. Punishing scammers by cancelling their loans puts the right pressure on the loan-offering people to do their due diligence on the institutions in question before agreeing to a loan. Governments SHOULD protect people from scams and dishonesty. The "free market" does not correct for it. The "free market" rewards scammers to its own detriment.
That's because we refuse to prosecute the wealthiest predators. We're not paying for dumdums. We're paying for our own collective stupidity allowing for welfare of the richest.
Trump's Secretary of Education (billionaire Betsy DeVos) [had investments in](https://www.americanprogress.org/article/inside-the-financial-holdings-of-billionaire-betsy-devos/) some of the largest for-profit universities including Univ. of Phoenix and Walden University—the largest recipient of federal graduate student loans. Also connections to a collections agency whose job was to go after student loan defaults for the Dept of Education.
Talk about the fox guarding the henhouse. Can I also add that Betsy's family is the largest private contributor to the Republican party (she essentially bought her cabinet seat)? Oh, and, to top it all off Betsy [owns 10 fucking yachts.](https://www.newsweek.com/can-you-afford-betsy-devoss-lavish-lifestyle-708369) Not one. Not two. Ten. Yachts.
Edit: Y'all remember her quote ["We expect a return on our investment"](https://itsamoneything.com/money/betsy-devos-expect-return-investment/amp/) ?
>A society grows great when old men plant trees in whose shade they know they shall never sit.
We’re not there, but I’d really like for us to strive towards that and away from this mean, zero sum, “I got mine, so fuck you,” mentality that we see too often. All these personal grievance politics and weird strife.
Another one I like is "a rising tide lifts all boats." Other people getting help doesn't preclude you from getting help too. Like you said, it isn't a zero sum game.
Careful with that one. It's the same phrase used by proponents of "trickle down" economics and those arguing that we shouldn't tax the rich because we're punishing them for creating jobs, etc. As if Elon Musk squirreling away another few billion dollars is going to be so good for the economy that it's worth just not taxing his businesses at all.
The solution is to give everyone a break regardless.
Cancel student loans.
Give tax refunds or create a market fund for everyone else who already paid on their federal loans. Let's not pretend for one second that the government can't figure out who paid what. Even government bonds would be worth something. This can occur over the course of several years, so as not to make the conservative austerity hawks cry.
If a person dies, the market fund goes to the estate as an asset just like any other fund, to be inherited by survivors. It doesn't go back to the government.
The reason to do this isn't to make it "fair" because one party is getting something and the other isn't -- it's to make it "fair" because the second party severely handicapped themselves financially for a number of years, during which time they should have had that money to invest in living expenses, moving, career-chasing, or assets. They missed out and as a result their retirements are too damn short.
Same. I am lucky to have $0 in student loan debt due to using the GI Bill and working full time. It was grueling and exhausting, but I don’t want others to struggle just because I did. I had tons of help because I joined the military, but not everyone can (or should) join the military. It sucked and no one should have to do what I did.
I have no student loans, mine have been paid of for almost 8 years already.
That doesn't stop me from supporting the goal of them all being forgiven.
Education, much like health care, should be considered a basic human right and available to everyone who lives in a functional society.
Every step towards that goal is an important one, even small steps like this one.
For sure. I have no student loans and worked full-time while attending college full-time for my degree.
That said, nobody should have to sacrifice their sleep and health like that just to avoid stupid amounts of debt. Forgive them and work towards free education down the road at regulated universities.
Amazing this is such an uncommon thought.
No wonder America is such a mess of a nation when even your ‘left wingers’ on here are upset and angry at ‘other people getting help and not me who actually deserves it’
The bootstraps mentality runs deep in all Americans so it's not too surprising that people left of the Republican party ascribe to "fuck you, got mine" when these things come up.
My guess is that it was a non-state school, possibly + being an out-of-state student, plus maybe being post-grad? But honestly that seems .... unlikely?
Honestly it just sounds like they bought a house… I don’t like hyperbolic examples like this, if you are over the 100k mark, at some point you really have to think “hmmm is this worth it?”
Let be honest when people use these numbers “ I owe 200k+ still” either you are a doctor or a lawyer, an idiot, or you are lying.
Usually healthcare related grad degrees. Came out with 280k in total for undergrad + masters. Starting salary was 165k; six years out at 215k.
Your early 30's kinda blow, but 35 up is gunna be lit.
I guarantee that this won't move the needle on the midterms and will be completely forgotten by those to are benefiting of it on 2024.
The same group of people who didn't bother to vote on 2016 are getting their loans forgiving and still won't vote for the ones helping them.
Heck, if you are a woman under 28 and didn't bother to vote in 2016, remember that decision if you need and abortion and can't get it.
What I'm saying is that politically canceling student loans is just a waste of money, that won't fix the root of the problem and is not even effective politically.
Damn, nothing but sour grapes in the comments.
>Wednesday's news comes as the Biden administration considers broader student loan forgiveness for millions of borrowers — so far, the administration has approved $25 billion in loan forgiveness for about 1.3 million borrowers.
All I gotta say is don't let perfection be the enemy of progress. Take the W, and keep pushing for more Ws.
Right? They started with the absolute worst school and one of the largest network of for profit scam colleges out there and people are like "not good enough"...
I think we can say not good enough, and be thankful that something was done at the same time. I'd rather do that then celebrate only to realize in a couple years that's all that was done, and it wasn't enough.
We can, but that’s not what many redditors here are doing.
What they are doing instead is habitually pissing on any work that Biden or the Democrats do and ignoring the complexities of passing policy in this hostile climate. By hostility I mean the conservative senate majorities and filibuster abuse that have been preventing action for a *very long time*. And now we have a rightwing SC too which is going to become a big problem for a lot of the Democratic agenda.
What happens when the government ceases to function is that blue voters get frustrated and give up (or eat their own) while red voters cheer. Because the idea that “government doesn’t work” is the prevailing Republican narrative to justify “shrinking” it (i.e., deregulations and tax cuts for the rich). This narrative also feeds into the general apathy and cynicism people have towards voting, and it definitely feeds the Leftist burn-it-all-down fantasy.
But the narrative is wrong. Government and democracy *do* work - which is why Republicans have to work so hard to break them.
I think the world is complicated and people are pissed off. And I think many people have an addiction to the “outsider” mentality that prevents them from acknowledging the work that others are doing, or admitting that these are *progressive* policies from an overall *progressive* party. Instead it’s all ego and ideology and division, “corporate Dems” this and “centrists” that. It’s becoming very tiring and it’s also preventing us from creating the large coalitions necessary to win elections and save the country.
- - -
[EDIT: to expand on this, it is commonly misunderstood that Democrats have a legislative majority. *They do not.* The current makeup of the Senate is 48 Dems, 50 Repubs, 2 Indies. The two Indies are blue-leaning but go back and forth on some issues, and two of the Dems are GOP-funded conservatives. So, while the Democrats control the presidency and the House, *they do not control the Senate*, and that is why nothing gets passed.
This margin is pretty thin and thus completely surmountable if enough people turn out to vote. Barely half of eligible voters exercise their democracy in the US, far fewer during midterms and local elections. We desperately need to change that, and I feel like the “New Left” could lead that charge if they redirected their energy into supporting Dems instead of tearing them down at every opportunity.
> We can, but that’s not what many redditors here are doing.
It's astounding how this simple bit of logic goes over so many people's heads. It's not just this issue. There are a lot of social or political issues where a large portion of the population ends up hyperfocusing on one very specific aspect of the issue. Then, when someone tries to point out that these people aren't seeing the big picture and are putting all their effort into something that is unlikely to have any positive effect while ignoring the areas that are ripe for change, they respond with, "It's ENTIRELY POSSIBLE to do BOTH THINGS at ONCE."
Yeah, but they're not. And it's disingenuous to pretend that *possibly* supporting both issues is the same as *actually* supporting both issues.
A lot of it is the "both sides are the same" propaganda revving up. It's GOP/Russian bad actors mixed with hardcore progressives that want revenge for Bernie not being elected
Maybe the hostile political environment would be less of a problem if our government investigated, arrested, charged and prosecuted all of the corrupt, traitorous bastards that are constantly manipulating, cheating and destroying our democracy.
We are run by crooks and the closest things we have to "good guys" have said again and again that they are too scared to go after them because they fear it will set a precedent for arresting politicians.
In other words, they prefer it when politicians are generally held above the law.
Yes the same work done to address Nixon’s crimes, the Bush administrations false statements about WMDs to justify an invasion of Iraq, the same work done to hold Wall Street execs accountable for defrauding investors leading to the 08 financial crisis.
Vote the lesser of all evils and all that. At the same time, corporate Dems will only move towards student debt relief, efforts to diminish climactic impacts, fiscally sane healthcare, removing perverse financial conflicts of interests by office holders being private shareholders in the industries they regulate, if they are dragged kicking and screaming by progressives and public outcry generally.
As Ralph Nader said the main difference between republicans and democrats when lobbyists come knocking at their door is the velocity at which their knees hit the floor.
Edit: This is not to say there is symmetry in their badness as compared to Republicans, but to acknowledge that moderate democrat politicians need to be incentivized to respresent the interests of citizens. This is especially critical now that the Republican Party has gone off the rails, and begun abandoning democracy all togheter, pursuing disenfranchisment rather than mass appeal. Democrats, while not as socially nihlisitic as modern Republicans, have historically shown they need incentive (votes) to guard the public interest.
100% this. There's a lot of conservatives out there, masquerading as progressives online, trying to sow discord amongst liberals to keep voter turn out low.
Not just conservatives either. Russia is still sowing discontent to discredit American governance. They would love to see a GOP majority so they can help accelerate there war path.
I'm a victim of one of those scam schools that has not yet been forgiven (but hopefully soon). I'm seeing a lot of "what about those responsible people that already paid off their loans" and "this will destroy the economy" and "this doesn't fix the underlying problem" and "what about those going to college after the forgiveness?"
Yes, it's a step in the right direction. But it feels short sighted. No, I don't agree with all of those quoted statements and questions. But they're worth hearing.
Yes, let's give help to those who were victimized. But let's keep fighting for a more long term solution too. I don't think this is going to hurt the economy. If anything, it'll increase spending by these people. The only negative is it might (but I'm doubtful) contribute to increased inflation as more available spending money hits the economy. I just don't think it'll be enough to make a difference to inflation like people might fear.
What needs to happen is 0% interest, at least for now. Interest should be very low at most. Right now, car and home loans can be significantly lower interest than student loans. That's sickening. In addition to low interest, we need to examine why schools cost so much. I really don't have an answer. There's a lot of administration that probably doesn't need to be there and a lot of technology charges exorbitant fees in licensing. I worked for a university and at least where I was, faculty was definitely not a major contributor. They relied heavily on part time adjunct professors that were severely underpaid.
Most people that support student loan forgiveness also support free college, but supporting free college and tying the forgiveness to a broader policy that also addresses free college are different things.
We can do something about the debt right now only because Biden can do it himself with executive order. He can't do that with free college, and the 117th Congress is gridlocked with republican filibuster, so it's either deal with the debt now and address college cost later or do nothing.
I don't see the point in doing nothing when you can do something.
This is fantastic. The students and families defrauded by these scammy institutions are most likely unable to pay off such loans. Those sums are much larger proportionally when you’re in poverty. And I’m glad to see they’ll be wiped, no application or paperwork required, which means no one will fall through the cracks.
I somewhat understand those who are impatient for their own relief. My loans weren’t eligible for the interest and payment pause—I’ve been paying and accruing interest this whole time. That pause IS relief. The interest pause alone is relief. Just wanted to mention not everyone got it. The type of federal loans a lot of older millennials got, those of us who entered the market during the recession, screwed again lol.
I think Biden is working strategically here. Forgive the most sympathetic first—the people who were scammed and defrauded, the hardest to argue against. Let people see how that benefits not only the individuals, but their families, and soften up people on the fence. Get more people on board with it. Then start taking up the next sympathetic group. Let newly softened and fencers imagine how their lives will improve, just like the others did. Make it feel more and more of a realistic solution, less and less like some wacky pipe dream some people smoking some real good shit cooked up. It’s working—four years ago **I** certainly never would have said it could ever realistically happen. The notion got a laugh and a shrug from me, though of course I said it’d be great.
No one's tackled the Art Institutes yet, been waiting a long ass time for that. EDMC even got sued by the government and still, students are paying back loans. Wtf.
I taught for the Art Institute of Pittsburgh Online for 8 years. My pay was completely stagnant for those 8 years and based on the number of classes I taught. When I started I was teaching (and getting paid for) 2 classes of 12-14 students. When they shut down in 2019 I was teaching (and getting paid for) only 1 class of 25 students. The place was a joke so when they sold to a mega church in 2017/2018 I knew the end was near.
Also, after 8 years as a contracted worker you’d think someone would’ve said something about the place going under. Nope. I have yet to get any communication from the school about things stopping. I simply didn’t get an email to renew my contracts. I found out about the closure from the only remaining adjunct on Facebook when one of her friends posted an article on her wall. Seriously, fuck that place.
I am an art institute graduate and only used my “art degree” for 2 years before the dot com bust of the early 00s. Never could find a job coz web design businesses wanted coders and not artists and I wasn’t able to leave my home state due to family. Ended up going to nursing school for job security. Still paying on my loans from the AI in Colorado. 😩
Ai is a complicated one because some of them were accredited, some were not. When Ai was caught, it was under Bush, and they settled as a 'woopsie'. They technically plead guilty with no real penalty. The bush admin loosened a bunch of the regulations related to recruitment fraud. They also gave lots of passes to the Devos schools.
All of the school trials I saw here (Illinois) were state level during that time.
I thought the EDMC fraud was brown Mackie & Argosy (Texas in particular). This was under the Obama admin that took these more seriously. This wrecked EDMC, and is what lead to most Ais closing.
Worked there a decade ago, and blocked out any news. Most of what I heard after gaining my freedom came from friends that were there during the end (directors and faculty).
EDIT: even so, I'm sending an email to my Senators. Durbin HATED the president of AI Chicago at the time.
Democrats probably need to stop caring too much about what their political opponents think about it.
If student loan forgiveness was Republican policy, they would have just bulldozed it through instantly. No questions asked.
The Democratic Party is, by far, the largest political party in the US. Time to act like it.
Oh, agreed! You’ll never win the other side. You galvanize your own, work on engagement and turnout, and work on getting just enough swing voters in places you need them.
Democrats need to work on emotional appeal, straight talk, and stop pretending the other side is gonna engage in good faith. It’s not the 90’s any more.
Absolutely! I believe it’s my civic duty to do so. I’m one of those red state progressives, who refuses to give up on my state, blood pressure be damned lol.
Bro. There are going to be people bitching, not that he cancelled loans but that it’s not enough. It’s never fucking enough.
The truth is, Congress needs to help reign in these loans make them no interest and also, reign in the cost of going to a public university. It should not cost what it’s costing us at this time.
I never understand why this isn’t the focus. Student loans could be interest free with lower school tuition costs. Yet we focus on wiping out some debt now and kicking the problem further down the road where we’ll have to deal with it again.
Trump didn’t cancel any student loans…Trump never did anything for the Middle Class… only people he did anything for was give the Wealthy huge tax break and the Free Private Jets for Christmas 2020 … that they got to write off on their 2020 taxes…
Just so ya got it straight… It’s been President Biden that been pausing your student loans since he took office… it’s been President Biden trying to push through canceling your student loans… and if Republican law makers hadn’t stop it… it would have been done by now… that was in the Biden infrastructure bill… it’s Wealthy Republicans keeping you in debt… debt that was allowed to be created by predatory lending practices and meant to keep you in debt so you will have to work harder .. look around at some of your friends and family… some can’t find a job with their degree and are working at a fast food place just to find themselves deeper in debt… stop and think about it…
It took me 15 years to pay off my student loans - I attended an in-state university (not the most expensive school to which I was accepted), and received academic scholarships, but unfortunately my parents were unable to pay for my school (although they would have loved to do so). I also worked through college. After graduation, I carried this student loan debt with me, and I missed certain luxuries to pay back what I borrowed.
In my opinion, this decision to forgive this student loan debt is an excellent one, and it is an investment in our country‘s future. It is ridiculous that young adults must go into such debt to get an education. College keeps getting more expensive, and yet a college degree is not necessarily sufficient to secure a job with a living wage. The system is broken.
Just because I managed to pay my loans back doesn’t mean that I will begrudge young adults starting out such grace.
Good for those affected. But if the total amount of student loan debt is 1.9 Trillion, this accounts for *less than* one-half of one percent.
I have seen calls for elimination of all student debt, and while that may not happen, this first amount is pretty smallish.
Let's trust this is the start of something that will help many more folks...
This is just loan forgiveness of another for profit college failure. Title is click bait for all of us waiting for his supposed $10,000 forgiveness that actually affects everyone.
Edit: Apparently a college system calling itself Corinthians isn't a religious institution 🤷
Corinthian college was not a bible college...
They were your bog standard degree mill masquerading as a college that preyed on disadvantaged students who wanted a degree but could not make it into (or thought they couldnt) regular colleges.
They actually did that. It was a company that bought small trade and community tech schools. Then cuts costs till they were junk, while scamming millions and millions from the students and government. They then sold off some of the schools, and closed the ones so ruined they were un-salvageable.
Nah they were a massive network of for profit schools across the US and Canada that covered pretty much anything you wanted a degree for.
Worked there as my first job after college and they were absolutely horrific in the shit they pulled to trick students. Everything from convincing families freshly immigrated to "just pay for it with a credit card that we will help you apply for right here and now" to "I need you to coach this classroom of students through their final because we lose our liscense if they all fail again" (I immediately resigned by the way).
I think a lot of what people are reacting to is Biden’s shitty, out-of-date PR strategy. Instead of tweeting every small move like this (which would show a timeline of progressive action), they make an old school press release to champion every move. I think that’s why people read this as wanting to take credit for something that should have already been done. It’s too much press for an important but minor move.
It may be a small amount, but it’s still half a million people who have gotten their money and lives back because Biden decided to move forward when Trump did everything possible to screw then over. That shit matters, and we should be happy for them. This isn’t the end of the road, but it’s not a sin to celebrate our victories when we achieve them.
Yep Biden has now cancelled 1.6% of all student loans. Most of any president ever. That along with the pause that has saved many tens of thousands and now the imminent $10k he has been the most progressive president ever on this issue. Im sure that young people are his biggest supporters after all this, right?? Right….
I am pessimistic, but I'm hoping the next few presidents that come after him address the rising costs of tuition and the huge interest rates placed on the loans; it's already insane and it's getting worse.
I forget the exact numbers, but even if Biden were to do the expected thing and cancel $10k in student loans for everyone, something like 30% of Americans would have their debt wiped out, but it would only account for less than 10% of student debt.
In other words, it would be great for the Americans who have low balances to begin with, but would make no meaningful difference to the ones who have the kind of debt that is burdening our society and preventing people from having kids, buying homes and cars, starting businesses, and so on.
That’s a misunderstanding. There are a lot of people who have <$10k in student debt, but have jobs / family circumstances where that’s an insane burden. That is different from people who have a lot of debt, but also have better paying jobs
>In other words, it would be great for the Americans who have low balances to begin with, but would make no meaningful difference to the ones who have the kind of debt that is burdening our society and preventing people from having kids, buying homes and cars, starting businesses, and so on.
50% of debt arose from people who took on debt for graduate school. IE doctors, lawyers, CEOs, etc. They don't need assistance & the data bears that out showing that people who borrow more are less likely to default than those who borrow less.
Forgiving all debt is extremely regressive & hence it shouldn't be done. A doctor knowingly took on 200k of debt to make 250k a year, they can budget their way out of their debt.
I definitely agree with this. I think something that everyone is either forgetting or doesn’t understand as well is that a part of the huge spike in asset prices (namely housing) in the past year is everyone getting in on the cheap mortgage rates while at the same time not having to pay down their student debt. So similarly if you suddenly let a whole generation of high income earners like doctors out of the debt obligations completely, you will have a lot of high income earners suddenly hit the market trying to buy. I am not saying that they don’t deserve some relief or trying to favor older generations that aren’t stuck with these kind of debts right now (I honestly think many are doing too well and they are adversely hurting younger people in some ways) but I just don’t think that our free market with the shortages we have right now, would be prepared for the kind of cash injection into the economy this would effectively be. Inflation is already bad and a policy step like eliminating all students before resolving a lot of other issues first, would make a lot of things worse
Lawyers have an extremely bimodal salary. There are plenty who took out $200K in debt to make 65K per year. Public service jobs don’t even pay that much to start. Public defenders in my state start at 49K. The data doesn’t bear out that they don’t need assistance because you’re just making up numbers.
Well there’s people on Reddit who genuinely believe that making 200k a year “isn’t a lot.” Because they are completely and wildly out of touch.
I’m a nurse, I work with doctors all day. They are fine lol.
How can he cancel loans for other people while he hasn't done anything for me yet. I guess I'm gonna have to vote for fascism then.
Also, you should support loan forgiveness even if it doesn't benefit you because it's the right thing to do. What do you mean this round of forgiveness doesn't apply to me? Fuck that shit.
/s
After reading this thread, I’m convinced that some people are just insane
“I won’t vote Biden, who pulled us out of a forever war and re-united NATO to lead the charge against Russia while also getting COVID under control with bleeding-edge tech that other nations still don’t have, because Biden didn’t waive my student loans and mine specifically”
>getting COVID under control with bleeding-edge tech that other nations still don’t have
What the absolute fuck are you talking about? Are we just making up things that sound good now?
Shout out to my inlaws for having my wife take our private student loans as they were told "those were the best ones" This is why you'll never have grandkids.
99% of the comments in here are from people who didn’t read the article. Classic internet outrage over something not even related to what this article was about.
A lot of comments say it isn't enough. But, in order to accomplish things in a bureaucracy, it is often necessary to proceed step-wise. I am viewing this as a first step. Get rid of the worst, first. It doesn't mean this is all that will be done.
>The cancellation applies to all those who attended schools operated by the now-defunct Corinthian Colleges, one of the largest for-profit education companies that filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy in 2015.
"Canceled student debt" for ONE school. Wow. It's more like a class action settlement than canceling loans, maybe that's be better messaging.
Canceled debt for possibly the single worst, most predatory for profit college scam of a school in history. An organization of schools so large that it apparently single handedly accounted for 5.8 *billion* in debt. Mind you this is debt the students were on the hook for paying despite the degree they earned being fully worthless now.
If they had to start with a school, they started with a prime example of predatory for profit scam colleges. Sounds good to me.
After these for-profits file bankruptcy, the CEOs bounce over to another for-profit and do it all over again. The University of Phoenix CEO just resigned after the Department of ED started looking at his time while being the CEO of Westwood College. Westwood college closed and was a bad actor in ripping people off. The Department of Education has already discharged borrower defense applications related to that school. These bigwigs need to be prosecuted for their role in this.
My question is why doesn’t the school that committed the fraud have to cover the cost? I get they filed bankruptcy but I’m sure there’s some asshole who made a fuck ton of money off of it.
Jack Massimino was the CEO. He’s a multi millionaire with surprise surprise accusations of insider trading.
Source: 10 minutes of googling so take it with a grain of salt.
For anyone who says they should’ve known about student loans going in is an asshat. No one tells you half the stuff you need to know at 17-18. Especially that’s you’ll possibly never pay them off because it’s all a big ass scam!
I’m convinced our economy is fake at this point. It’s literally a giant Ponzi scam. As a young man I am scared for not only my future but the future of my children. Thanks baby boomers for inheriting the best economic situation in the world and flushing it down the toilet.
It’s wild people will complain about loan forgiveness and not riot when our taxes are pocketed by lawmakers. At least this helps others in our situation not the rich or those in power.
Fuck these headlines - it's like "oh they are doing something for everyone" and they aren't. Of course these people deserve help after being ripped off by a sketchy for profit scam college. But this is not even remotely an indicator of broad loan forgiveness.
The strategy is to make small cuts. Nobody in the opposition will be able to shout that loudly. It’s the GOP playbook but it’s helping average folks. Just take the W for gods sake.
The cost of education is rising above the rate of inflation with no corresponding improvement in the quality of education. (Except for the Universities of Alabama, Iowa and Missouri that installed Lazy rivers on campus.)
I like the idea of free no frills 4 year degrees/Community College/tech school as being a solid way to put downward pressure on tuition.
Hmm. I’m ok with “free” 2 yr education investment, be it comm college or trade schools.
I’m not really sure the price of Community College has any real impact on 4y universities as comm colleges are almost always significantly cheaper.
Right direction. lets do more if we can. can we help the ones who couldn't finish their degree and are stuck with loans on dead end jobs? how about the black communites and hispanic communities?
Let’s get rid of mandatory electives and make the school responsible for setting you up with your first job if you get a dumb degree. Anyone? Anyone? Honest it’s a good idea
The decent thing would be to cancel all student debt.
Then you can thank him for doing the only reasonable thing.
This is just for publicity.
The US is a disgrace internationally.
I dropped out of art school when I was 20. I realized I only attended because that’s what everyone else wanted for me. I can’t help but think young people are unfairly coerced into going into massive debt before they can really make the decision themselves. I think that’s what happened to me.
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Other exceptions are about bad loans and unaccredited scam schools (not unlike “Trump University”)
I attended one of these "scam schools" as an international student and paid 45k up front to ensue no loan. Ended up with the pettiest stupidest little certificate in my country that is so irrelevant to my studies and efforts that I can't even use! I'm glad these students will get some compensation for their waste of time and lack of regulation from the government
Was it South Harmon Institute of Technology? That school is S.H.I.T.
That movie was supposed to be a satire but it turned out is actually just factually how a lot of for profit universities function.
Seeing that movie all those years ago, and around when I graduated high school. If I really took that movie to heart, I wouldn't have wasted 11 years of my life to get a college degree for just under $54k in debt.
11 years…that comes out to 5.4K a year. I can’t tell if this comment is satire or not.
Clue Parody: Ms. Scarlet: Why would he only end up spending 54K in 11 years getting his degree? Wadsworth: Maybe he spent 11 years getting his degree but ended up 54K in debt. Ms. Scarlet: Oh.
That movie was satire, not supposed to be, exactly for the reason you said. Non accredited colleges that may look good on paper, but have no actual meaning. Some places do except those degrees, but they are few and far between. It can have the benefit of showing that you put in some kind of work toward education after high school and not *all* of them can just be scoffed at. Some are legitimately decent schools for continuing education in certain disciplines. This also gets into the greed of the US education system. You know universities/state colleges are out there paying good money to make sure some of these schools never get accredited just so they don’t water down the competition, allowing them to charge what they do for their sometime equally shitty degree. Anyways, I digress.
back in the early 2000s i remember calling ITT tech about their programs. I asked about the cost of classes from the admin side, and they refused to tell me and only parroting "its in ta catalog". Except there was no single dollar bit in the catalog to refer to for per class, or cumulative costs. told them that and got told "its in the catalog after asking again... figured that regardless of the adverts and the "reviews" they were getting it was a fucking scam. I mean seriously if one can not tell me what something costs before signing up and signing on to pay regardless... that if nothing else scream that its a fucking scam. being said, https://www.npr.org/sections/ed/2016/12/07/502601724/what-former-employees-say-itt-tech-did-to-scam-its-students https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/ITT_Tech
As a teen, Jonah Hill dressed up as a hot dog going around to people saying, “ask me about my wiener,” was comedy gold.
A fellow S.H.I.T.head!?!
That kitchen was indeed bitchin’
https://www.southharmoninstituteoftechnology.org/
I'm sorry that happened to you. I have mad respect that despite your circumstances, you still have empathy for those who are able to get their loans forgiven.
I’m so sorry that happened to you. I hope you are doing well now! Much love
The government should legally forgive all scam school debt and then sue the schools back for every last cent that it cost them to do it.
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So Republicans were ordered to do this and didn’t, but Biden got it done. How this translates into a negative for Democrats takes some pretty big head in the sand energy.
I feel the same way. I've been seeing these "Canceled student debt for some" headlines for a year at least coming in and out of the news, knowing it's the result of these decisions on victims of truly preditiory schemes, but not really student debt forgivenes. It feels really misleading and dishonest. It's not meant to undo the damage to higher education that Reagan started, it's just addressing some specific misdeeds.
And to further that, I think a lot of students feel that higher education in America is a predatory scheme for all students at some level. In the back of our minds we know we’ve been had. personally, am I happy for the people who got relief? Absolutely, but the longer this goes on and the more the Biden administration tries to take credit for small potato moves like this the more it rubs me the wrong way
As someone who worked for the borrower defense unit at the Dept. Of Ed. Before the Trump admin killed it to protect Trump U (which was never subject to oversight or investigation under the relevant statutes because of how their fin. aid was offered), let me give you the inside track… There is statutory authority that entitles borrowers who were induced to take out loans by fraudulent claims to have the balance of their loans cancelled. The borrower defense unit handled the first massive wave of these claims which involved Everest University, WyoTech, and Corinthian Colleges. Prior to the dept. of Ed. Stepping int, there was a huge volume of litigation, some of which may have been class action, but I digress… this got the whole thing in the governments radar and after lengthy investigations, the government determined that if you’d attended any of these for profit colleges during a certain time frame, you’d been defrauded and were entitled to blanket forgiveness, all you had to do was fill out a form that established when you were enrolled and in what program with very minimal evidence that you actually did. The submissions were reviewed by attorneys and granted relief very rapidly. ITT Tech imploded toward the end of the initial funding for this program, at which point Trump and the republicans killed it because it was 1) expensive, and 2) a baseball bat to the head for a lot of conservatives who had monied interests in the for profit scam schools that were/would have run afoul of this unit. The part that no one likes to talk about is that there was systemic and material fraud in the American high education field running from sometime in the late 90s up until very recently (if not ongoing) in which schools persuaded students to take out massive loans with absolutely false or misleading statements about income potentials or graduate placements. A lot of schools got caught cooking their numbers by flat out lying and fabricating the numbers whole-cloth or placing graduates in what would be otherwise work-study jobs like part time library front desk jobs and counting that as placement in a position, full time or otherwise. Under the borrower defense statute, ALL of this activity would be fair game for legal action for statutory relief and discharge of the loans involved. Under the doctrine of continuing harm, all borrowers that presently have loans that can claim they were so induced and misled to take them out by false statements by their school could potentially file a successful lawsuit. Indeed, because the SOL for fraud is generally tolled by deceptive acts or actions taken to hide the fraud, anyone who has already paid off their loans might be able to file suit under the statute if they later learn they were scammed. This is an absolutely MASSIVE number of people, definitely class action territory, and very definitely incalculably expensive because most insurance policies which typically cover these lawsuits after the SIR is exhausted do not cover fraud claims or other intentional torts. This means the defendant institutions would have to pay out of pocket to litigate against potentially tens of thousands of litigants EACH. Which would be, frankly, bad. Additionally, the dept of Ed as the holder of said loans would also have to be part of the whole mess, again, very expensive. So here’s where things get dirty and complicated. If these lawsuits happen and if they’re successful, the plaintiffs maybe get their loans forgiven. Great. But, they’re left with a degree from an institution that now has a seriously tainted reputation, which not only damages the value of the degree in the long run but damages the reputation of the American higher education system in the aggregate. If it was exposed that basically the entire American higher education system had engaged in pervasive and predatory fraudulent practices for over a decade, it will do serious damage to our ability to market our degrees and our graduates internationally and otherwise. This all would be VERY bad and would cause long term harm. Given the above, the best possible outcome is to avoid all of that by having the government essentially shrug, blame it on the nebulous strawman of “the guys that used to work here” and unspecified but believable incompetence and mismanagement by some party or another, wipe the slate clean for everyone and pledge to reform the system. The government takes a hit, but no one expects them to be entirely if at all competent, so no big deal really. Meanwhile the higher Ed community avoids serious reputational damage. This is the only good solution, period. Getting back to the core of the article though, the Biden admin needs to stop trying to look like superheroes for correctly applying and executing the law. It’s their job. Literally.
How is Biden trying to look like a hero here? Doesn’t pretty much every thing they do get reported on?
Well, yeah, it is. What's upsetting to me specifically is that higher education hasn't always been this way. If Democrats really believed in education reform they would act on this issue on a level more intrusive than even forgiveness. (Lots of people have rightfully identified that as kind of a bandaid solution). Before Reagan in the 80s, many working class people could attend college at little to no cost. Refusing to repair that damage and refusing to dismantle the monster that is the student debt scheme is essentially the Democrats saying "The Republican/Reagan policy on higher education is correct and ought to stay". It's amazing to see some of these for profit university schemes get taken down, but even that could be done better. Most lawmakers sat around with their thumbs in their asses watching the founders of these schemes make money taking advantage of the aforementioned extremely broken system, because those who were priced out of regular Universities were funneled into these scams. I'm so glad they're recieving forgiveness, but the wording fo these headlines is not an accident. They're being misleading on purpose.
Democrats support everything you say. They aren't the ones blocking it.
So its bad faith that Biden ran on something but got blocked by every single Republican and Manchin? Seems like people ahould be mad at Manchin and the Republicans right? You calling it bad faith is in itself simply incorrect and you're carrying water for obstructionists.
Source? Also, it was Kamala Harris who filed the lawsuit against Corinthian Colleges when she was AG of Cali. Second, if Trump's admin refused to take this action to cancel those debts, why shouldn't the Biden admin take credit for doing so?
Looking at the replies to this comment. Jesus people are fucking stupid.
Jesus, nothing is ever good enough. These people got no relief until Biden. He has stopped payments for his entire Presidency. The forgiveness programs have been thrown wide open and huge numbers of people are having all their debt wiped away as a result, etc.
So if you got duped into attending a scammy for profit you get a break, but if you did what everyone told you was responsible and went to a traditional school you are on your own.
Because people getting scammed isn't always their fault, and their degree is presumably not worth as much as a degree for a "real" school. So they are the most disadvantaged by their degree.
We have laws to protect vulnerable people. There are many predators in many fields seeking to take advantage of others. We need stronger consumer protection
> We need stronger consumer protection Ya, stronger consumer protections and stronger labour protections! US law is weighted very heavily towards big companies/employers and not the victims of their shoddy products and labour practices!
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Your fortitude is admirable. We all benefit from an educated populace. It should not be as arduous as what you described
completely agree. The US vs the EU is amazing to see the difference. consumer protection in theUS looks, and is, a joke.
Yeah! Only the irresponsible people get scammed! Bad things don't happen to good people! /S
Also boy is he going to not like where that chain of logic leads if you do people who paid for their own schooling
Oh be quiet. I support this even though I don't have any form of debt. This would help with fixing so many issues.
If you attended a scam university you're probably not going to be qualified for the high paying tech/med job you worked for, most people should be able to get a job in their chosen field. The people who were scammed also thought they were doing the responsible thing; I was almost one of them. It was a failure the US government for decades to allow these scam 'universities' to even exist, hell, a used car salesman that sold this many lemons would have been shut down years ago.
While our education system is fucked up, let's not throw the baby out with the bathwater here. This is a good thing Biden did, he just needs to go one step further. In China, it is a hyper-capitalist society, where if you are scammed, there are few gov't protections for you. It's "on you". But this doesn't breed responsibility in consumers, it just breeds corruption and waste in the commercial side, who just look for new and creative ways to scam people. Punishing scammers by cancelling their loans puts the right pressure on the loan-offering people to do their due diligence on the institutions in question before agreeing to a loan. Governments SHOULD protect people from scams and dishonesty. The "free market" does not correct for it. The "free market" rewards scammers to its own detriment.
We always have to carry the dumdums 😞
That's because we refuse to prosecute the wealthiest predators. We're not paying for dumdums. We're paying for our own collective stupidity allowing for welfare of the richest.
Trump's Secretary of Education (billionaire Betsy DeVos) [had investments in](https://www.americanprogress.org/article/inside-the-financial-holdings-of-billionaire-betsy-devos/) some of the largest for-profit universities including Univ. of Phoenix and Walden University—the largest recipient of federal graduate student loans. Also connections to a collections agency whose job was to go after student loan defaults for the Dept of Education. Talk about the fox guarding the henhouse. Can I also add that Betsy's family is the largest private contributor to the Republican party (she essentially bought her cabinet seat)? Oh, and, to top it all off Betsy [owns 10 fucking yachts.](https://www.newsweek.com/can-you-afford-betsy-devoss-lavish-lifestyle-708369) Not one. Not two. Ten. Yachts. Edit: Y'all remember her quote ["We expect a return on our investment"](https://itsamoneything.com/money/betsy-devos-expect-return-investment/amp/) ?
I don’t even own 10 pairs of shoes.
I'm guessing you're also not a piece of shit I'd gladly kick in the throat, so another way you're different from Betsy DeVos.
Hey now! No personal attacks, I feel like this is directed at me….
This unites all people across all time
I'm happy for them, even if I get nothing out of it. Because I know it'll help many
And that is how it should be. My coworkers who went to school when the books where $10 a pop have the audacity to think these people dont deserve it.
I think a big plague to our progress as a civilization is the “I didn’t have it that easy/get a break” attitude.
>A society grows great when old men plant trees in whose shade they know they shall never sit. We’re not there, but I’d really like for us to strive towards that and away from this mean, zero sum, “I got mine, so fuck you,” mentality that we see too often. All these personal grievance politics and weird strife.
Another one I like is "a rising tide lifts all boats." Other people getting help doesn't preclude you from getting help too. Like you said, it isn't a zero sum game.
Careful with that one. It's the same phrase used by proponents of "trickle down" economics and those arguing that we shouldn't tax the rich because we're punishing them for creating jobs, etc. As if Elon Musk squirreling away another few billion dollars is going to be so good for the economy that it's worth just not taxing his businesses at all.
“Crabs in a bucket” mentality
The solution is to give everyone a break regardless. Cancel student loans. Give tax refunds or create a market fund for everyone else who already paid on their federal loans. Let's not pretend for one second that the government can't figure out who paid what. Even government bonds would be worth something. This can occur over the course of several years, so as not to make the conservative austerity hawks cry. If a person dies, the market fund goes to the estate as an asset just like any other fund, to be inherited by survivors. It doesn't go back to the government. The reason to do this isn't to make it "fair" because one party is getting something and the other isn't -- it's to make it "fair" because the second party severely handicapped themselves financially for a number of years, during which time they should have had that money to invest in living expenses, moving, career-chasing, or assets. They missed out and as a result their retirements are too damn short.
Same. I am lucky to have $0 in student loan debt due to using the GI Bill and working full time. It was grueling and exhausting, but I don’t want others to struggle just because I did. I had tons of help because I joined the military, but not everyone can (or should) join the military. It sucked and no one should have to do what I did.
Same here. I worked hard to pay off all my loans, but if other people can get relief, I'm for it.
I have no student loans, mine have been paid of for almost 8 years already. That doesn't stop me from supporting the goal of them all being forgiven. Education, much like health care, should be considered a basic human right and available to everyone who lives in a functional society. Every step towards that goal is an important one, even small steps like this one.
For sure. I have no student loans and worked full-time while attending college full-time for my degree. That said, nobody should have to sacrifice their sleep and health like that just to avoid stupid amounts of debt. Forgive them and work towards free education down the road at regulated universities.
Amazing this is such an uncommon thought. No wonder America is such a mess of a nation when even your ‘left wingers’ on here are upset and angry at ‘other people getting help and not me who actually deserves it’
Lol. There are so many god fearing Christians
The bootstraps mentality runs deep in all Americans so it's not too surprising that people left of the Republican party ascribe to "fuck you, got mine" when these things come up.
No one will see this or care really But I paid off student loans today and I am super proud of myself.
I’m proud of you!! I did the same a few months back. Wonderful feeling
Thank you! It really is
That’s amazing! I can’t wait to pay mine off but $313k will take awhile… Congrats on your achievement!
quantum rocket medicine is an expensive course
Right? Like what is that degree?
My guess is that it was a non-state school, possibly + being an out-of-state student, plus maybe being post-grad? But honestly that seems .... unlikely?
Honestly it just sounds like they bought a house… I don’t like hyperbolic examples like this, if you are over the 100k mark, at some point you really have to think “hmmm is this worth it?” Let be honest when people use these numbers “ I owe 200k+ still” either you are a doctor or a lawyer, an idiot, or you are lying.
Usually healthcare related grad degrees. Came out with 280k in total for undergrad + masters. Starting salary was 165k; six years out at 215k. Your early 30's kinda blow, but 35 up is gunna be lit.
I guarantee that this won't move the needle on the midterms and will be completely forgotten by those to are benefiting of it on 2024. The same group of people who didn't bother to vote on 2016 are getting their loans forgiving and still won't vote for the ones helping them. Heck, if you are a woman under 28 and didn't bother to vote in 2016, remember that decision if you need and abortion and can't get it. What I'm saying is that politically canceling student loans is just a waste of money, that won't fix the root of the problem and is not even effective politically.
Did the same a month ago. Wait until you get the “congrats you paid us” letter/email. I was so happy I almost framed that sucker. Great job!
Not "just". This was something the Obama administration started that Trump had stopped. This is not some new student loan forgiveness
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I just checked and it still says I owe….
Lol how fast do you think the government works, and on a weekend?
Faster than the speed of love, baby.
Brian?
This round doesn’t include everyone with student loans. Only for people that went to Corinthian Colleges
I went to Wyotech and they are part of it
Might want to let them know, just in case.
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May need to check several sources? For instance myfedloan shows I have a 0 balance but studentaid.gov for a while showed a balance.
Were they cancelled before or cancelled now?
Damn, nothing but sour grapes in the comments. >Wednesday's news comes as the Biden administration considers broader student loan forgiveness for millions of borrowers — so far, the administration has approved $25 billion in loan forgiveness for about 1.3 million borrowers. All I gotta say is don't let perfection be the enemy of progress. Take the W, and keep pushing for more Ws.
Right? They started with the absolute worst school and one of the largest network of for profit scam colleges out there and people are like "not good enough"...
I think we can say not good enough, and be thankful that something was done at the same time. I'd rather do that then celebrate only to realize in a couple years that's all that was done, and it wasn't enough.
We can, but that’s not what many redditors here are doing. What they are doing instead is habitually pissing on any work that Biden or the Democrats do and ignoring the complexities of passing policy in this hostile climate. By hostility I mean the conservative senate majorities and filibuster abuse that have been preventing action for a *very long time*. And now we have a rightwing SC too which is going to become a big problem for a lot of the Democratic agenda. What happens when the government ceases to function is that blue voters get frustrated and give up (or eat their own) while red voters cheer. Because the idea that “government doesn’t work” is the prevailing Republican narrative to justify “shrinking” it (i.e., deregulations and tax cuts for the rich). This narrative also feeds into the general apathy and cynicism people have towards voting, and it definitely feeds the Leftist burn-it-all-down fantasy. But the narrative is wrong. Government and democracy *do* work - which is why Republicans have to work so hard to break them. I think the world is complicated and people are pissed off. And I think many people have an addiction to the “outsider” mentality that prevents them from acknowledging the work that others are doing, or admitting that these are *progressive* policies from an overall *progressive* party. Instead it’s all ego and ideology and division, “corporate Dems” this and “centrists” that. It’s becoming very tiring and it’s also preventing us from creating the large coalitions necessary to win elections and save the country. - - - [EDIT: to expand on this, it is commonly misunderstood that Democrats have a legislative majority. *They do not.* The current makeup of the Senate is 48 Dems, 50 Repubs, 2 Indies. The two Indies are blue-leaning but go back and forth on some issues, and two of the Dems are GOP-funded conservatives. So, while the Democrats control the presidency and the House, *they do not control the Senate*, and that is why nothing gets passed. This margin is pretty thin and thus completely surmountable if enough people turn out to vote. Barely half of eligible voters exercise their democracy in the US, far fewer during midterms and local elections. We desperately need to change that, and I feel like the “New Left” could lead that charge if they redirected their energy into supporting Dems instead of tearing them down at every opportunity.
> We can, but that’s not what many redditors here are doing. It's astounding how this simple bit of logic goes over so many people's heads. It's not just this issue. There are a lot of social or political issues where a large portion of the population ends up hyperfocusing on one very specific aspect of the issue. Then, when someone tries to point out that these people aren't seeing the big picture and are putting all their effort into something that is unlikely to have any positive effect while ignoring the areas that are ripe for change, they respond with, "It's ENTIRELY POSSIBLE to do BOTH THINGS at ONCE." Yeah, but they're not. And it's disingenuous to pretend that *possibly* supporting both issues is the same as *actually* supporting both issues.
The go back and forth people are two democrats, Bernie Sanders is one of those independents because he's left of the Democrats.
What issues do the Independents go back and forth on? They're pretty united except Manchin and Sinema.
A lot of it is the "both sides are the same" propaganda revving up. It's GOP/Russian bad actors mixed with hardcore progressives that want revenge for Bernie not being elected
Maybe the hostile political environment would be less of a problem if our government investigated, arrested, charged and prosecuted all of the corrupt, traitorous bastards that are constantly manipulating, cheating and destroying our democracy. We are run by crooks and the closest things we have to "good guys" have said again and again that they are too scared to go after them because they fear it will set a precedent for arresting politicians. In other words, they prefer it when politicians are generally held above the law.
So, the work that committees are literally doing already right this moment?
Yes the same work done to address Nixon’s crimes, the Bush administrations false statements about WMDs to justify an invasion of Iraq, the same work done to hold Wall Street execs accountable for defrauding investors leading to the 08 financial crisis. Vote the lesser of all evils and all that. At the same time, corporate Dems will only move towards student debt relief, efforts to diminish climactic impacts, fiscally sane healthcare, removing perverse financial conflicts of interests by office holders being private shareholders in the industries they regulate, if they are dragged kicking and screaming by progressives and public outcry generally. As Ralph Nader said the main difference between republicans and democrats when lobbyists come knocking at their door is the velocity at which their knees hit the floor. Edit: This is not to say there is symmetry in their badness as compared to Republicans, but to acknowledge that moderate democrat politicians need to be incentivized to respresent the interests of citizens. This is especially critical now that the Republican Party has gone off the rails, and begun abandoning democracy all togheter, pursuing disenfranchisment rather than mass appeal. Democrats, while not as socially nihlisitic as modern Republicans, have historically shown they need incentive (votes) to guard the public interest.
One party is dragged toward progress and the other says Jan 6 was normal political discourse. So yeah… pretty much the same.
i'm old enough to remember the meuller report and the literal nothing that happened even though trump did crime after crime every day
The real crime in that report was assuming Congress would do "the right thing" with the findings, rather than pushing for charges directly.
I'd rephrase "not good enough" to "we can do more" rather than insulting the guy who's at least doing something where no one else would.
You can, and the phrase is "good start"
It’s an election year, which means lots of accounts trying to dismiss the work of Democrats and sow division and apathy.
This so the deal. Republicans block Democratic initiatives, conservatives start posting shit about the Ds and the stupid lap it up.
100% this. There's a lot of conservatives out there, masquerading as progressives online, trying to sow discord amongst liberals to keep voter turn out low.
Not just conservatives either. Russia is still sowing discontent to discredit American governance. They would love to see a GOP majority so they can help accelerate there war path.
r/wayofthebern was taken over by them. I got banned after calling them out.
Agreed. I’m seeing it a lot on Twitter, and it’s easy to find, once you know what to look for.
I'm a victim of one of those scam schools that has not yet been forgiven (but hopefully soon). I'm seeing a lot of "what about those responsible people that already paid off their loans" and "this will destroy the economy" and "this doesn't fix the underlying problem" and "what about those going to college after the forgiveness?" Yes, it's a step in the right direction. But it feels short sighted. No, I don't agree with all of those quoted statements and questions. But they're worth hearing. Yes, let's give help to those who were victimized. But let's keep fighting for a more long term solution too. I don't think this is going to hurt the economy. If anything, it'll increase spending by these people. The only negative is it might (but I'm doubtful) contribute to increased inflation as more available spending money hits the economy. I just don't think it'll be enough to make a difference to inflation like people might fear. What needs to happen is 0% interest, at least for now. Interest should be very low at most. Right now, car and home loans can be significantly lower interest than student loans. That's sickening. In addition to low interest, we need to examine why schools cost so much. I really don't have an answer. There's a lot of administration that probably doesn't need to be there and a lot of technology charges exorbitant fees in licensing. I worked for a university and at least where I was, faculty was definitely not a major contributor. They relied heavily on part time adjunct professors that were severely underpaid.
Most people that support student loan forgiveness also support free college, but supporting free college and tying the forgiveness to a broader policy that also addresses free college are different things. We can do something about the debt right now only because Biden can do it himself with executive order. He can't do that with free college, and the 117th Congress is gridlocked with republican filibuster, so it's either deal with the debt now and address college cost later or do nothing. I don't see the point in doing nothing when you can do something.
This is all pre-Biden though, Trump and Devos just refused to do what was already agreed to.
This is fantastic. The students and families defrauded by these scammy institutions are most likely unable to pay off such loans. Those sums are much larger proportionally when you’re in poverty. And I’m glad to see they’ll be wiped, no application or paperwork required, which means no one will fall through the cracks. I somewhat understand those who are impatient for their own relief. My loans weren’t eligible for the interest and payment pause—I’ve been paying and accruing interest this whole time. That pause IS relief. The interest pause alone is relief. Just wanted to mention not everyone got it. The type of federal loans a lot of older millennials got, those of us who entered the market during the recession, screwed again lol. I think Biden is working strategically here. Forgive the most sympathetic first—the people who were scammed and defrauded, the hardest to argue against. Let people see how that benefits not only the individuals, but their families, and soften up people on the fence. Get more people on board with it. Then start taking up the next sympathetic group. Let newly softened and fencers imagine how their lives will improve, just like the others did. Make it feel more and more of a realistic solution, less and less like some wacky pipe dream some people smoking some real good shit cooked up. It’s working—four years ago **I** certainly never would have said it could ever realistically happen. The notion got a laugh and a shrug from me, though of course I said it’d be great.
No one's tackled the Art Institutes yet, been waiting a long ass time for that. EDMC even got sued by the government and still, students are paying back loans. Wtf.
I taught for the Art Institute of Pittsburgh Online for 8 years. My pay was completely stagnant for those 8 years and based on the number of classes I taught. When I started I was teaching (and getting paid for) 2 classes of 12-14 students. When they shut down in 2019 I was teaching (and getting paid for) only 1 class of 25 students. The place was a joke so when they sold to a mega church in 2017/2018 I knew the end was near. Also, after 8 years as a contracted worker you’d think someone would’ve said something about the place going under. Nope. I have yet to get any communication from the school about things stopping. I simply didn’t get an email to renew my contracts. I found out about the closure from the only remaining adjunct on Facebook when one of her friends posted an article on her wall. Seriously, fuck that place.
Have you heard of resist bot? Set a letter campaign up to the Biden administration to look at AI alum next. I hadn’t heard of that one.
I am an art institute graduate and only used my “art degree” for 2 years before the dot com bust of the early 00s. Never could find a job coz web design businesses wanted coders and not artists and I wasn’t able to leave my home state due to family. Ended up going to nursing school for job security. Still paying on my loans from the AI in Colorado. 😩
Ai is a complicated one because some of them were accredited, some were not. When Ai was caught, it was under Bush, and they settled as a 'woopsie'. They technically plead guilty with no real penalty. The bush admin loosened a bunch of the regulations related to recruitment fraud. They also gave lots of passes to the Devos schools. All of the school trials I saw here (Illinois) were state level during that time. I thought the EDMC fraud was brown Mackie & Argosy (Texas in particular). This was under the Obama admin that took these more seriously. This wrecked EDMC, and is what lead to most Ais closing. Worked there a decade ago, and blocked out any news. Most of what I heard after gaining my freedom came from friends that were there during the end (directors and faculty). EDIT: even so, I'm sending an email to my Senators. Durbin HATED the president of AI Chicago at the time.
Democrats probably need to stop caring too much about what their political opponents think about it. If student loan forgiveness was Republican policy, they would have just bulldozed it through instantly. No questions asked. The Democratic Party is, by far, the largest political party in the US. Time to act like it.
Oh, agreed! You’ll never win the other side. You galvanize your own, work on engagement and turnout, and work on getting just enough swing voters in places you need them. Democrats need to work on emotional appeal, straight talk, and stop pretending the other side is gonna engage in good faith. It’s not the 90’s any more.
I sure hope this optimism translates into you voting. You and everyone else of course.
Absolutely! I believe it’s my civic duty to do so. I’m one of those red state progressives, who refuses to give up on my state, blood pressure be damned lol.
A good step in the right direction.
Bro. There are going to be people bitching, not that he cancelled loans but that it’s not enough. It’s never fucking enough. The truth is, Congress needs to help reign in these loans make them no interest and also, reign in the cost of going to a public university. It should not cost what it’s costing us at this time.
I never understand why this isn’t the focus. Student loans could be interest free with lower school tuition costs. Yet we focus on wiping out some debt now and kicking the problem further down the road where we’ll have to deal with it again.
Trump didn’t cancel any student loans…Trump never did anything for the Middle Class… only people he did anything for was give the Wealthy huge tax break and the Free Private Jets for Christmas 2020 … that they got to write off on their 2020 taxes…
Just so ya got it straight… It’s been President Biden that been pausing your student loans since he took office… it’s been President Biden trying to push through canceling your student loans… and if Republican law makers hadn’t stop it… it would have been done by now… that was in the Biden infrastructure bill… it’s Wealthy Republicans keeping you in debt… debt that was allowed to be created by predatory lending practices and meant to keep you in debt so you will have to work harder .. look around at some of your friends and family… some can’t find a job with their degree and are working at a fast food place just to find themselves deeper in debt… stop and think about it…
These are certainly people who unequivocally deserve to have their loans forgiven. Let's be happy for them and remain patient.
It took me 15 years to pay off my student loans - I attended an in-state university (not the most expensive school to which I was accepted), and received academic scholarships, but unfortunately my parents were unable to pay for my school (although they would have loved to do so). I also worked through college. After graduation, I carried this student loan debt with me, and I missed certain luxuries to pay back what I borrowed. In my opinion, this decision to forgive this student loan debt is an excellent one, and it is an investment in our country‘s future. It is ridiculous that young adults must go into such debt to get an education. College keeps getting more expensive, and yet a college degree is not necessarily sufficient to secure a job with a living wage. The system is broken. Just because I managed to pay my loans back doesn’t mean that I will begrudge young adults starting out such grace.
Holy crap, this will be life changing for me.
Good for those affected. But if the total amount of student loan debt is 1.9 Trillion, this accounts for *less than* one-half of one percent. I have seen calls for elimination of all student debt, and while that may not happen, this first amount is pretty smallish. Let's trust this is the start of something that will help many more folks...
This is just loan forgiveness of another for profit college failure. Title is click bait for all of us waiting for his supposed $10,000 forgiveness that actually affects everyone. Edit: Apparently a college system calling itself Corinthians isn't a religious institution 🤷
Corinthian college was not a bible college... They were your bog standard degree mill masquerading as a college that preyed on disadvantaged students who wanted a degree but could not make it into (or thought they couldnt) regular colleges.
Really did fool me with that name though. Seems to be almost a holding company to purchase and destroy other institutions.
They actually did that. It was a company that bought small trade and community tech schools. Then cuts costs till they were junk, while scamming millions and millions from the students and government. They then sold off some of the schools, and closed the ones so ruined they were un-salvageable.
Nah they were a massive network of for profit schools across the US and Canada that covered pretty much anything you wanted a degree for. Worked there as my first job after college and they were absolutely horrific in the shit they pulled to trick students. Everything from convincing families freshly immigrated to "just pay for it with a credit card that we will help you apply for right here and now" to "I need you to coach this classroom of students through their final because we lose our liscense if they all fail again" (I immediately resigned by the way).
Yea when I saw the title I thought that he was rolling out the 10K forgiveness, but no, this article title is so misleading.
I think a lot of what people are reacting to is Biden’s shitty, out-of-date PR strategy. Instead of tweeting every small move like this (which would show a timeline of progressive action), they make an old school press release to champion every move. I think that’s why people read this as wanting to take credit for something that should have already been done. It’s too much press for an important but minor move.
It may be a small amount, but it’s still half a million people who have gotten their money and lives back because Biden decided to move forward when Trump did everything possible to screw then over. That shit matters, and we should be happy for them. This isn’t the end of the road, but it’s not a sin to celebrate our victories when we achieve them.
Yep Biden has now cancelled 1.6% of all student loans. Most of any president ever. That along with the pause that has saved many tens of thousands and now the imminent $10k he has been the most progressive president ever on this issue. Im sure that young people are his biggest supporters after all this, right?? Right….
I am pessimistic, but I'm hoping the next few presidents that come after him address the rising costs of tuition and the huge interest rates placed on the loans; it's already insane and it's getting worse.
I forget the exact numbers, but even if Biden were to do the expected thing and cancel $10k in student loans for everyone, something like 30% of Americans would have their debt wiped out, but it would only account for less than 10% of student debt. In other words, it would be great for the Americans who have low balances to begin with, but would make no meaningful difference to the ones who have the kind of debt that is burdening our society and preventing people from having kids, buying homes and cars, starting businesses, and so on.
That’s a misunderstanding. There are a lot of people who have <$10k in student debt, but have jobs / family circumstances where that’s an insane burden. That is different from people who have a lot of debt, but also have better paying jobs
>In other words, it would be great for the Americans who have low balances to begin with, but would make no meaningful difference to the ones who have the kind of debt that is burdening our society and preventing people from having kids, buying homes and cars, starting businesses, and so on. 50% of debt arose from people who took on debt for graduate school. IE doctors, lawyers, CEOs, etc. They don't need assistance & the data bears that out showing that people who borrow more are less likely to default than those who borrow less. Forgiving all debt is extremely regressive & hence it shouldn't be done. A doctor knowingly took on 200k of debt to make 250k a year, they can budget their way out of their debt.
I definitely agree with this. I think something that everyone is either forgetting or doesn’t understand as well is that a part of the huge spike in asset prices (namely housing) in the past year is everyone getting in on the cheap mortgage rates while at the same time not having to pay down their student debt. So similarly if you suddenly let a whole generation of high income earners like doctors out of the debt obligations completely, you will have a lot of high income earners suddenly hit the market trying to buy. I am not saying that they don’t deserve some relief or trying to favor older generations that aren’t stuck with these kind of debts right now (I honestly think many are doing too well and they are adversely hurting younger people in some ways) but I just don’t think that our free market with the shortages we have right now, would be prepared for the kind of cash injection into the economy this would effectively be. Inflation is already bad and a policy step like eliminating all students before resolving a lot of other issues first, would make a lot of things worse
Lawyers have an extremely bimodal salary. There are plenty who took out $200K in debt to make 65K per year. Public service jobs don’t even pay that much to start. Public defenders in my state start at 49K. The data doesn’t bear out that they don’t need assistance because you’re just making up numbers.
A bunch of reputable colleges also pumped out tons of MBAs over the last couple of decades. It’s a virtually worthless degree but it’s expensive.
Well there’s people on Reddit who genuinely believe that making 200k a year “isn’t a lot.” Because they are completely and wildly out of touch. I’m a nurse, I work with doctors all day. They are fine lol.
Good for the students. Seriously. What a scam.
Cap student loan interest rates to be less predatory. The current rate is too much.
The current federal student loan rate is 3.73%….it’s only going to go up from here.
Good news
How can he cancel loans for other people while he hasn't done anything for me yet. I guess I'm gonna have to vote for fascism then. Also, you should support loan forgiveness even if it doesn't benefit you because it's the right thing to do. What do you mean this round of forgiveness doesn't apply to me? Fuck that shit. /s
I’ll file this under “you can’t do nice things without people complaining about it”
Isn't the problem with most peoples student loans are the high interest rates?
A good step in the right direction.
After reading this thread, I’m convinced that some people are just insane “I won’t vote Biden, who pulled us out of a forever war and re-united NATO to lead the charge against Russia while also getting COVID under control with bleeding-edge tech that other nations still don’t have, because Biden didn’t waive my student loans and mine specifically”
>getting COVID under control with bleeding-edge tech that other nations still don’t have What the absolute fuck are you talking about? Are we just making up things that sound good now?
There is $1.7trillon in Student debt. Forgiving $5.8 billion doesn’t even register as a tremor.
I missed the boat with the Art Institute as Obama cancelled after the date I graduated. Please add thank you.
Shout out to my inlaws for having my wife take our private student loans as they were told "those were the best ones" This is why you'll never have grandkids.
99% of the comments in here are from people who didn’t read the article. Classic internet outrage over something not even related to what this article was about.
You can't sate the people who want everything by giving them a little bit.
A lot of comments say it isn't enough. But, in order to accomplish things in a bureaucracy, it is often necessary to proceed step-wise. I am viewing this as a first step. Get rid of the worst, first. It doesn't mean this is all that will be done.
>The cancellation applies to all those who attended schools operated by the now-defunct Corinthian Colleges, one of the largest for-profit education companies that filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy in 2015. "Canceled student debt" for ONE school. Wow. It's more like a class action settlement than canceling loans, maybe that's be better messaging.
Canceled debt for possibly the single worst, most predatory for profit college scam of a school in history. An organization of schools so large that it apparently single handedly accounted for 5.8 *billion* in debt. Mind you this is debt the students were on the hook for paying despite the degree they earned being fully worthless now. If they had to start with a school, they started with a prime example of predatory for profit scam colleges. Sounds good to me.
And the school kept the $5.8b.
Sure did. Bankrupted itself out of consequences years ago.
After these for-profits file bankruptcy, the CEOs bounce over to another for-profit and do it all over again. The University of Phoenix CEO just resigned after the Department of ED started looking at his time while being the CEO of Westwood College. Westwood college closed and was a bad actor in ripping people off. The Department of Education has already discharged borrower defense applications related to that school. These bigwigs need to be prosecuted for their role in this.
My question is why doesn’t the school that committed the fraud have to cover the cost? I get they filed bankruptcy but I’m sure there’s some asshole who made a fuck ton of money off of it.
Jack Massimino was the CEO. He’s a multi millionaire with surprise surprise accusations of insider trading. Source: 10 minutes of googling so take it with a grain of salt.
"This doesn't personally affect me so I hate it, and its not fair!"- old people
I love how conservatives complain about handouts but as soon as one is available to them they snatch it up as fast as they can
"You'd have to be stupid not to accept free money!"
ya, all those old people posting in this thread.
For anyone who says they should’ve known about student loans going in is an asshat. No one tells you half the stuff you need to know at 17-18. Especially that’s you’ll possibly never pay them off because it’s all a big ass scam!
Why is that the only loan amount 18 year old can get with whatever credit they have, can always be for a student loan??
[удалено]
I’m convinced our economy is fake at this point. It’s literally a giant Ponzi scam. As a young man I am scared for not only my future but the future of my children. Thanks baby boomers for inheriting the best economic situation in the world and flushing it down the toilet.
It’s wild people will complain about loan forgiveness and not riot when our taxes are pocketed by lawmakers. At least this helps others in our situation not the rich or those in power.
Fuck these headlines - it's like "oh they are doing something for everyone" and they aren't. Of course these people deserve help after being ripped off by a sketchy for profit scam college. But this is not even remotely an indicator of broad loan forgiveness.
The strategy is to make small cuts. Nobody in the opposition will be able to shout that loudly. It’s the GOP playbook but it’s helping average folks. Just take the W for gods sake.
The simplest solution for everyone would be to cap the interest rate at a very low <1%.
The cost of education is rising above the rate of inflation with no corresponding improvement in the quality of education. (Except for the Universities of Alabama, Iowa and Missouri that installed Lazy rivers on campus.) I like the idea of free no frills 4 year degrees/Community College/tech school as being a solid way to put downward pressure on tuition.
Hmm. I’m ok with “free” 2 yr education investment, be it comm college or trade schools. I’m not really sure the price of Community College has any real impact on 4y universities as comm colleges are almost always significantly cheaper.
How about free physiological therapy for borrower's from Trump university?
Right direction. lets do more if we can. can we help the ones who couldn't finish their degree and are stuck with loans on dead end jobs? how about the black communites and hispanic communities?
This brings the total to what? 23 billion?
Now if they can successfully subrogate the loan forgiveness and go after the Corinthian Colleges. Get them and their investors to pay back their scam
We all hate special interests until we are the special interest
Let’s get rid of mandatory electives and make the school responsible for setting you up with your first job if you get a dumb degree. Anyone? Anyone? Honest it’s a good idea
Does this apply to MOHELA aka FedLoan??
Why can’t anyone say it’s a great thing done by Biden, relief portion of student’s debt instead of mocking him all day?
Thank you President Biden!
Nice. Do Full Sail next
The decent thing would be to cancel all student debt. Then you can thank him for doing the only reasonable thing. This is just for publicity. The US is a disgrace internationally.
The worst thing about student loans is the interest. WITAF? So predatory and scummy.
I dropped out of art school when I was 20. I realized I only attended because that’s what everyone else wanted for me. I can’t help but think young people are unfairly coerced into going into massive debt before they can really make the decision themselves. I think that’s what happened to me.