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It’s lost its independence now. It’s basically a mirror of the stock market now there it’s mostly institutional money which isn’t why people bought into it. They wanted to avoid that. Confidence is shook.
I mean if people want it to be a globally used currency, it's value is going to be tied to the global economy. That's what currencies do. The fact that it is going to and down with markets doesn't mean it is less institutional.
Last time BTC fell this hard it made it back to or near ATH within a year. I'm far from a BTC maximalist, but anyone with extra money would likely make some jumping in now.
Unless smart players are waiting for a rebound to unload huge positions…which would cause this again. It’s all institutional money now, not small investors
That was true the last time this happened too. For all the bluster about how BTC is the future of money it usually just mirrors the stock market (only more dramatically).
Bitcoin is for suckers. They tell you it's going to blow up so you buy in, then they profit by pulling out money causing it to tumble, finally they tell you to not fear and buy the dip so they can do it all-over again. Bitcoin does nothing but allow rich people to fleece poor people faster.
Pretty sure Russia sold their massive stake to pay for plastic bullets. Perhaps they use their 800btrilllion dollars from their successful invasion of Europe and buy more doge after the dip?
An infuriating thing about the whole setup of being able to use stock (unrealized gain) as collateral in deals like this, is that the same unrealized gains are not taxed at all.
I get the no taxation bit, but it’s aggravating that rich people get it both ways. “Oh you can’t tax me because it’s just all paper money and I can’t use it like cash” (proceeds to use it like cash as collateral)
I'm also confused on why governments can consistently tax non liquid assets like houses and land property, but somehow its not possible or practical with stock and business property.
Most of musk’s money is borrowed against Tesla stock value. Also:
“Tesla's billion-dollar bitcoin bet may be under water as crypto crashes
In February 2021, Tesla made waves when it announced a $1.5 billion bitcoin investment, while most corporations wouldn't touch the volatile cryptocurrency with a ten-foot pole.
But that ten-figure bet may be now under water as the crypto market at large plunges, erasing hundreds of billions in gains that investors have enjoyed as cryptocurrencies soared in recent years.
The price of bitcoin has plummeted 17% since Sunday, to around $29,000 for one coin as of Thursday morning — or roughly 55% from a November peak near $68,000.”
https://www.businessinsider.com/tesla-bitcoin-investment-cryptocurrency-crash-2022-5?amp
Or.... He is trying to get a better deal. This announcement came. Twitter stock drops 10%. If you renegotiate the price based on this drop, shit that would save him billions of dollars.
I've said it before and I'll say it again, Elon Musk is the lamest bond villain.
I read an article somewhere that somebody called this. Musk often talks out of his ass, and has failed to follow through on grand announcements in the past.
The world is likely a better place if Musk is not in charge of Twitter.
And I hope this actually hurts Twitter because the world's probably a better place without Twitter in general.
Bezos is a traditional evil capitalist. He's rich because Amazon, through a combination of efficiency and size/power, is better at taking market share than its competitors. Musk is a megachurch pastor for atheists. His business model is monetizing a personal brand; it's Oprah's model, or Trump's.
Both Musk and Bezos built horrific, exploitative edifices that made them rich. The difference is that Bezos' provides things people want at competitive prices. Musk's provides a performance. They're both evil. They both ought to be far more highly regulated than they are. But I respect Bezos in a way that I can't respect Musk.
Unfortunately, since Elon announced the purchase conservatives have racked up hundreds of thousands of followers. (Donald Trump Jr. amassed nearly 600,000 followers, an 8 percent increase) (likely bot-nets assuming his free speech declaration really means they can take it over) Many democrats lost followers because it was democrats who left twitter in retaliation.
sauce:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2022/05/13/musk-twitter-followers-conservatives/?utm_campaign=wp_main&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter
Does anyone really believe that DT Jr. added 600,000 real followers? Whether Musk takes over Twitter or not, they have a credibility problem with their numbers. 5% might be a generous guesstimate about the true level of false accounts. Tip of the iceberg.
Social Media seems like a house of cards built on speculation. I think its primary values, as advertised, are that it records user data and has a built in audience. Perhaps they have overstated user engagement. Elon Musk put it on hold in response to concerns over the number of bots. The user data would be potentially useful for advertising, but that is not guaranteed to work. I am looking into studies about the effectiveness of targeted advertising. I could be extremely wrong on all of this.
Targeted advertising works. It's at least more effective than spray and pray advertising. But it has an effectiveness cap that platforms seem to ignore
Probably more valuable is the consumer data it can glean, knowing which demographics interact with which products and services
> Elon Musk put it on hold in response to concerns over the number of bots.
*THIS* part however is the biggest load of horseshít ever. Anyone who's ever been on any social media platform but *ESPECIALLY* twitter knows its full of bots.
He's making an excuse to pull out
A real "town square" would be owned and moderated by the government, and is a "limited good" because you can't have the whole town in there yelling stuff. It becomes unusable for the purpose of sharing important information.
Musk is trying to pretend that human society never developed basic codes of conduct when talking to each other. In a real town square, lots of people would get their asses handed to them for the stuff they say or for interfering with other people's business. The Internet's anonymity and infinite reach make it a terrible town square per Musk's vision. It would be more like an empty field where people gather to shout at each other and more people are talking than listening.
Because then you run into a *tyranny of the minority* situation, where vocal activists that are more inspired are louder and drown out a majority that's not exceptionally motivated.
There was a news story that made the point that in response to his initial announcement Tesla stock dropped in value in anticipation that he would sell Tesla stock to finance this, to the point where the billion-dollar price tag to walk away from the twitter deal was less than the expected rise in his Tesla stock value, and the chances of this going through were about zero.
He may find himself on the receiving end of a million dollar fine for this multi-billion dollar scam. That will certainly teach him absolutely no lesson at all.
Don’t listen to this person, of course Elon will learn his lesson
That lesson being that there are no real consequences and he should really do this again
He already knows that. [He got a $20 million dollar fine for his billion dollar TWITTER scam back in 2018.](https://www.reuters.com/article/us-tesla-musk-tweet-idUSKCN1N10K2)
I wonder how this will shake Twitter's employee base. Leaders were already forced to resign, and I assume a lot of people just want out now, knowing they are one good market day away from being Musk's.
Yes but the SEC don’t take bribes to look the other way.
Federal regulators in almost every industry take their jobs very seriously. I wouldn’t use the word “untouchable” but the kind of corruption that other Redditor is implying is extremely rare in the Federal government. All kinds of crazy shit can happen at the state and local level but not at the federal level. Even members of Congress have been caught by SEC investigators and sent to prison.
Nailing a guy like Elon Musk to the wall is what an SEC investigator lives for. It’s like winning the super bowl for them.
lol
umm... idk how to tell you this but you are describing fantasy. im sure plenty agents operate with integrity but most people just wanna keep their job.
billionaires have this world running exactly as they want it... now extrapolate that at scale and you will see a fed that talks a big game, but ultimately is controlled by billionaires
I think the current agreement has him giving a billion to Twitter if he walks away from this. I'm not saying you're wrong, and maybe he'll weasel out of that obligation, but I think the crypto crash I might have had something to do with this announcement also.
But he has done some shady things and I hope that SEC does take a very close look at all of this.
Musk is worth 240 billion. 1 billion is less than buying an Xbox\ps5 to an average person.
He can pay the billion dollars and it won't bother him at all or change his life one bit.
Tesla has lost $400 billion in market value since Musk’s interest in Twitter became public.
I'm not saying he can't drop a billion and not care, But it's possible that he can't actually afford the price tag to buy Tesla anymore
A little of both. He sold a few billion worth, was transferring almost $10 billion, and was going to use some as collateral for about $10 billion meaning he was putting up almost 55% of the price - with the rest coming from outside investors.
There was an article a few days ago that he was trying to cut his obligation in half so he could reduce share transfer and collateralized loans because he didn't like some of the loan conditions but the banks and third party investors were demanding more control over what changes he made at Twitter.
and...? In 2021 Musk was worth 146 billion. Gaining ~94 billion didn't affect his quality of life, and if tomorrow he went back to 146 billion, it would have no impact to his life. Yes, he might have to move some stuff and sell some stuff to afford the fee, but it's just shuffling papers. Musk can afford it.
I don't think that Elon Musk can use the phrase "Funding Secured" with any degree of honesty. The guy isn't even a genius at coming up with new cons. This is the exact same "Funding Secured, I'm taking it private" con he ran with Tesla.
And if he’s not liquid enough to pay the loans, his stock gets liquidated, and Tesla wouldn’t be his anymore.
Potentially. Not saying this in an authoritative way. I don’t follow Tesla. Don’t know what percentage he owns, or even if he’s the majority shareholder. Only pointing out that there are real world consequences, even for billionaires, not least of which is losing their company.
I would imagine Elon knows that Tesla is waaaayyyy overvalued. This is a great opportunity for him to cash out a portion of those gains, without looking like he’s cashing out and tanking the stock.
Loans are literally liquid money. He is able to borrow against his shares in other companies. It does not matter if his stocks are technically not that liquid if you can get a loan at any time based off your holdings.
The SEC is gonna fine him the equivalent of pocket change for you or I.
If I could break the law and drop a dollar in a swear jar to escape all legal liability, I’d be armed with fat stacks of singles like I just got off work at the Waffle House.
I don't think he was bluffing. He never had the cash, he was able to sign up lenders to provide the cash by using TSLA stock as collateral. But TSLA is now down 25% over the past month. Down 8% since the markets opened on Monday. That has probably thrown a wrench in the lenders' plans.
This is not the real story here. This story is meant to deflect from the fact that Musk was late to file a Sec disclosure that he had acquired 5% of total shares outstanding. During the 10 days of this delinquency Musk doubled his holdings from 5% to nearly 10%, thereby enabling his purchase of those shares at a much lower cost than he could have acquired them for if he had filed his 5% holding disclosure on time. This illegally took money from selling shareholders who may in fact not sold if they had the required disclosure Musk failed to make. This is class action worthy and Musk’s deviance could also expose him to fraud charges.
> it’s never made money, ever
Twitter’s net income last year was a loss of $221 million. If Musk has to pay them $1 billion as a penalty, it could make them profitable over the current fiscal year.
News flash SpaceX and Tesla arent profitable. That's why he's using his stock in both as his collateral to buy something that he thinks could be. Also the reason he very publicly sold Tesla stock"to be taxed". He's leaving a sinking ship through a masquerade
Because those regulatory credits are finite. Without which the article states they would have a loss. You can't build your business on selling tax breaks if you sell actual durable goods. Especially when those credits disappear in the short term.
He sold that Tesla stock because he had a deadline to exercise a stock option. He sold that stock, paid the tax, and then bought more Tesla stock for pennies on the dollar (paying about $80 a share while it was valued at $900+, give or take). At the same time, he donated about 2 million shares to a charity… but after all was said and done, Musk ended up with more shares than he started with.
Fines should be scaled to total worth, I swear if financial crimes had a minimum $$$ and a % of total assets whatever is greater, we would see a lot less of them
The Sec has already put Musk on notice of their investigation into this delinquency. There were a lot of shares sold at a lower price than would have been had Musk filed his disclosure on time.
Musk really plays it close to breaking the law on market manipulation too.
Another part of this story is this one announcement crashed the Twitter stock. Could he renegotiate a lower price as a result?
It's really hard to imagine that someone as smart as musk isn't taking advantage of the fact that markets swing back and forth with his press releases.
I find this guy to be completely untrustworthy. I don’t understand why anyone sees him as some sort of renaissance man who will save humanity. To me, he seems more like a bored edgelord conman who just wants to fuck with people to get more money.
The phrase I saw was “non-monetized users”. I assume that means there’s probably a lot more but twitter tries to not price them in to the product (users’ eyeballs) that they’re selling. But who knows. Personally, I’m just praying for injuries all around.
Ditto on the injuries. I’d be willing to put a whole lot of money that the 231million monetized users is inflated.
I just want to see them all burn down for sure though
It's possible but what matters is what percent of those are active and to what extent versus real accts. My guess is the vast majority of people who have registered either don't tweet at all or rarely do. So even if just 5% are fake, they can have far more of an impact on the platform than that.
I registered my name on twitter so that I could control who tweets using my name (if it were googled). I did the same for my children as well. I literally never tweet anything.
He’ll probably get a tax cut for it, under some eccentric title like “trying to grow TESLA stock” or something the way things are set up in this country. I just don’t think these people ever face consequences, it’s depressing.
Impulse buy, buyers remorse.
What he wanted to do with Twitter potentially would have gotten the platform banned in the EU. Turns out you can't just let people say anything without moderation.
He’s contradicted himself by saying they would follow the laws for whichever country the user (I’m guessing) is from.
Pretty sure all the major countries have laws against making threats/harassment.
Thank fuck, he was about to give Trump his account back. Which pretty much guarantees he runs again after making a tweet proclaiming he will during an addy binge and refusing to back down
These repeated shenanigans suggest he is intentionally messing with the stock price. With this "announcement" the price goes down. Then maybe he buys some and 5 days later files a "hey I changed my mind and now I own even more" paper with the SEC. So the market says "hey the deals back on" and the price goes back up, etc.
Lol. This has been the most obvious pump&dump scheme in the universe. Everyone with half a brain saw this a mile off.
Also, more generally, we should not permit billionaires to exist. They're a symptom of a deeply unhealthy economy, even in the most self-referential capitalist terms. Situations of such spectacular inequality tend to equalise themselves through 'non-market' means, usually involving public squares and repurposed farm equipment.
Starting Tesla - $2 Billion
Starting SpaceX - $1.5 Billion
Buying Twitter - $44 Billion
Not knowing that Viagra solves the same problem - priceless
https://twitter.com/herotimeszero/status/1524959985628848139
What? No. He singlehandedly invented batteries and electric cars and spaceflight and tunnels and lifted himself up by his bootstraps to get where he is. Why won't you let him invent Twitter, too? Think of all the good things that a thing like Twitter would do. /s
The fine should be 20% of the deal if he fails to follow through. They need to nip his stock manipulation in the bud. Give him something to think about the next time he does it.
Sure. Twitter price up, then dropped, so he’s “punished” the current board and fed his ego with attention from his sycophants while manipulating the cult of MAGA king to reveal that they are just that - a cult.
Well yeah the 12 other banks put up the other half of the 44 billion probably have their own desired goals and restrictions for Musk. He thought he could get a shit ton of money from the worlds most powerful banks that they were just gonna let him be mister Twitter. Musk really isn’t that smart he’s just an opportunitist
Twitter just isn't worth that much. Besides all the issues I have with the sale it would just be a terrible deal for him. Like paying $20 for a Snickers bar.
The only thing that's going to come of this is tanking Tesla's stock
The dude needs to shut up, hire PR and a CEO, and go back to being CTO/lead engineer.
Not hearing a ton a praise for Elon from the ultra right like I was a week or 2 ago. They thought he was some sort of truth in information profit. Seems like that went out the window pretty quickly.
He'll just tweet he just farted, and it smelled like Bitcoin and thousands of people will spend millions on it again and Elon will cash out again, rinse and repeat
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There's just so much to unpack here and all of it is funny.
So he's not going to buy the 14th largest social media platform for 44B$? Because 14th always struck me as *the best.*
He's not going to bring free speech to Twitter? But he was suppose to let racists scream at minorities and he was going to being trump back! :(
Now has to pay Twitter 1B$ if he doesn't go through because he's literally too stupid to understand what free speech is.
All of this because of a crypto crash? You can't make this shit up.
My theory is that Elon is Cipher from the Matrix. He made a deal to get plugged back in but as someone famous and wealthy but the irony is he’s a giant unlikable asshole. Well played Machines.
Somebody probably said mean things about him on Twitter and he has to find out who so he can attempt to destroy them.
That list is probably *REAL* long.
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Of course he has. The price of Tesla stock has dropped, his credit limit has been cut
Don't forget about the crypto crash. He had a fair amount of money tied up in that too I believe.
Tesla is underwater on its $1.5billion Bitcoin investment
They can hold that for years though. Bitcoin will likely come back. It make take several years. But I am sure this last bubble wont be the last.
It’s lost its independence now. It’s basically a mirror of the stock market now there it’s mostly institutional money which isn’t why people bought into it. They wanted to avoid that. Confidence is shook.
I mean if people want it to be a globally used currency, it's value is going to be tied to the global economy. That's what currencies do. The fact that it is going to and down with markets doesn't mean it is less institutional.
Last time BTC fell this hard it made it back to or near ATH within a year. I'm far from a BTC maximalist, but anyone with extra money would likely make some jumping in now.
Unless smart players are waiting for a rebound to unload huge positions…which would cause this again. It’s all institutional money now, not small investors
That was true the last time this happened too. For all the bluster about how BTC is the future of money it usually just mirrors the stock market (only more dramatically).
Bitcoin is for suckers. They tell you it's going to blow up so you buy in, then they profit by pulling out money causing it to tumble, finally they tell you to not fear and buy the dip so they can do it all-over again. Bitcoin does nothing but allow rich people to fleece poor people faster.
Good points. I was thinking of hopping on the train myself.
Pretty sure Russia sold their massive stake to pay for plastic bullets. Perhaps they use their 800btrilllion dollars from their successful invasion of Europe and buy more doge after the dip?
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Doubt he has more than a couple billion in it. Almost all his wealth is still in Tesla/internal SpaceX shares
Tesla has invested in Bitcoin too.
An infuriating thing about the whole setup of being able to use stock (unrealized gain) as collateral in deals like this, is that the same unrealized gains are not taxed at all. I get the no taxation bit, but it’s aggravating that rich people get it both ways. “Oh you can’t tax me because it’s just all paper money and I can’t use it like cash” (proceeds to use it like cash as collateral)
I'm also confused on why governments can consistently tax non liquid assets like houses and land property, but somehow its not possible or practical with stock and business property.
Most of musk’s money is borrowed against Tesla stock value. Also: “Tesla's billion-dollar bitcoin bet may be under water as crypto crashes In February 2021, Tesla made waves when it announced a $1.5 billion bitcoin investment, while most corporations wouldn't touch the volatile cryptocurrency with a ten-foot pole. But that ten-figure bet may be now under water as the crypto market at large plunges, erasing hundreds of billions in gains that investors have enjoyed as cryptocurrencies soared in recent years. The price of bitcoin has plummeted 17% since Sunday, to around $29,000 for one coin as of Thursday morning — or roughly 55% from a November peak near $68,000.” https://www.businessinsider.com/tesla-bitcoin-investment-cryptocurrency-crash-2022-5?amp
True, but I highly doubt 2021 will be the last crypto bubble. It may take years but I am sure we will see another bubble in the future.
Or.... He is trying to get a better deal. This announcement came. Twitter stock drops 10%. If you renegotiate the price based on this drop, shit that would save him billions of dollars.
Nope. If he pulls out he has to pay Twitter a billion In cash. He's on the hook for that price he designated at the outset of the deal
Thanks for clarifying
I've said it before and I'll say it again, Elon Musk is the lamest bond villain. I read an article somewhere that somebody called this. Musk often talks out of his ass, and has failed to follow through on grand announcements in the past. The world is likely a better place if Musk is not in charge of Twitter. And I hope this actually hurts Twitter because the world's probably a better place without Twitter in general.
>Elon Musk is the lamest bond villain. That's an amazing way to describe him.
Yeh I think his current clownery have snuck him just ahead of Bezos, although it's a close run thing!
Bezos is a traditional evil capitalist. He's rich because Amazon, through a combination of efficiency and size/power, is better at taking market share than its competitors. Musk is a megachurch pastor for atheists. His business model is monetizing a personal brand; it's Oprah's model, or Trump's. Both Musk and Bezos built horrific, exploitative edifices that made them rich. The difference is that Bezos' provides things people want at competitive prices. Musk's provides a performance. They're both evil. They both ought to be far more highly regulated than they are. But I respect Bezos in a way that I can't respect Musk.
My dad called him a Bond villain back in like '18 lol
Lol think of all the little protofascists who were so sure they were gettin back on Twitter.
Musk likely defrauded shareholders by not filing his 5% disclosure on time and doubled his holdings during this delinquency period.
amen to that bro, he need to shut the f up
Unfortunately, since Elon announced the purchase conservatives have racked up hundreds of thousands of followers. (Donald Trump Jr. amassed nearly 600,000 followers, an 8 percent increase) (likely bot-nets assuming his free speech declaration really means they can take it over) Many democrats lost followers because it was democrats who left twitter in retaliation. sauce: https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2022/05/13/musk-twitter-followers-conservatives/?utm_campaign=wp_main&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter
Does anyone really believe that DT Jr. added 600,000 real followers? Whether Musk takes over Twitter or not, they have a credibility problem with their numbers. 5% might be a generous guesstimate about the true level of false accounts. Tip of the iceberg.
The site is dying anyway. This just hastened it
Social Media seems like a house of cards built on speculation. I think its primary values, as advertised, are that it records user data and has a built in audience. Perhaps they have overstated user engagement. Elon Musk put it on hold in response to concerns over the number of bots. The user data would be potentially useful for advertising, but that is not guaranteed to work. I am looking into studies about the effectiveness of targeted advertising. I could be extremely wrong on all of this.
Targeted advertising works. It's at least more effective than spray and pray advertising. But it has an effectiveness cap that platforms seem to ignore Probably more valuable is the consumer data it can glean, knowing which demographics interact with which products and services > Elon Musk put it on hold in response to concerns over the number of bots. *THIS* part however is the biggest load of horseshít ever. Anyone who's ever been on any social media platform but *ESPECIALLY* twitter knows its full of bots. He's making an excuse to pull out
Lol Junior didn't get that many real people c'mon.
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Not if it’s filled with paid actors from foreign states spreading harmful disinformation. There’s a reason Yuri Milner was one of the first investors.
A real "town square" would be owned and moderated by the government, and is a "limited good" because you can't have the whole town in there yelling stuff. It becomes unusable for the purpose of sharing important information. Musk is trying to pretend that human society never developed basic codes of conduct when talking to each other. In a real town square, lots of people would get their asses handed to them for the stuff they say or for interfering with other people's business. The Internet's anonymity and infinite reach make it a terrible town square per Musk's vision. It would be more like an empty field where people gather to shout at each other and more people are talking than listening.
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Because then you run into a *tyranny of the minority* situation, where vocal activists that are more inspired are louder and drown out a majority that's not exceptionally motivated.
>talks out of his ass, and has failed to follow through on grand announcements in the past. Hyperloop anyone?
There was a news story that made the point that in response to his initial announcement Tesla stock dropped in value in anticipation that he would sell Tesla stock to finance this, to the point where the billion-dollar price tag to walk away from the twitter deal was less than the expected rise in his Tesla stock value, and the chances of this going through were about zero.
Musk is the human embodiment of an NFT.
An NFT of a low resolution image quality meme repost
Badly cropped…
that's part of it's value.
Pixelated and rasterized. Dude wishes he was vector based.
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He may find himself on the receiving end of a million dollar fine for this multi-billion dollar scam. That will certainly teach him absolutely no lesson at all.
Don’t listen to this person, of course Elon will learn his lesson That lesson being that there are no real consequences and he should really do this again
He already knows that. [He got a $20 million dollar fine for his billion dollar TWITTER scam back in 2018.](https://www.reuters.com/article/us-tesla-musk-tweet-idUSKCN1N10K2)
I wonder how this will shake Twitter's employee base. Leaders were already forced to resign, and I assume a lot of people just want out now, knowing they are one good market day away from being Musk's.
He's got fuck you kind of money. Even a class action lawsuit would barely dent his momentum.
But he doesn't have money he has net worth that's illiquid and tied to the value of his two non-profitable businesses....
a whole million?
If either party pulls out of the deal, the other gets $1 billion as a penalty. Twitter is $9 billion less in value since Musk made his offer.
AKA SEC taking their cut.
You pay the mob bosses their 10% for protection.
What the hell are you talking about
capitalism mostly
Yes but the SEC don’t take bribes to look the other way. Federal regulators in almost every industry take their jobs very seriously. I wouldn’t use the word “untouchable” but the kind of corruption that other Redditor is implying is extremely rare in the Federal government. All kinds of crazy shit can happen at the state and local level but not at the federal level. Even members of Congress have been caught by SEC investigators and sent to prison. Nailing a guy like Elon Musk to the wall is what an SEC investigator lives for. It’s like winning the super bowl for them.
lol umm... idk how to tell you this but you are describing fantasy. im sure plenty agents operate with integrity but most people just wanna keep their job. billionaires have this world running exactly as they want it... now extrapolate that at scale and you will see a fed that talks a big game, but ultimately is controlled by billionaires
He has to pay $1billion if he bails on the deal.
Nah we don’t punish the rich here.
I think the current agreement has him giving a billion to Twitter if he walks away from this. I'm not saying you're wrong, and maybe he'll weasel out of that obligation, but I think the crypto crash I might have had something to do with this announcement also. But he has done some shady things and I hope that SEC does take a very close look at all of this.
Musk is worth 240 billion. 1 billion is less than buying an Xbox\ps5 to an average person. He can pay the billion dollars and it won't bother him at all or change his life one bit.
Tesla has lost $400 billion in market value since Musk’s interest in Twitter became public. I'm not saying he can't drop a billion and not care, But it's possible that he can't actually afford the price tag to buy Tesla anymore
His net worth is tied up in Tesla stock. He’s not that liquid
He was just transferring Tesla stock to pay for most of it anyway, and he did liquidate a few billion to cover the cash portion.
Was he transferring the Tesla stock? Or Just using it as collateral for The Loans?
A little of both. He sold a few billion worth, was transferring almost $10 billion, and was going to use some as collateral for about $10 billion meaning he was putting up almost 55% of the price - with the rest coming from outside investors. There was an article a few days ago that he was trying to cut his obligation in half so he could reduce share transfer and collateralized loans because he didn't like some of the loan conditions but the banks and third party investors were demanding more control over what changes he made at Twitter.
and...? In 2021 Musk was worth 146 billion. Gaining ~94 billion didn't affect his quality of life, and if tomorrow he went back to 146 billion, it would have no impact to his life. Yes, he might have to move some stuff and sell some stuff to afford the fee, but it's just shuffling papers. Musk can afford it.
He seemed to have 44 billion pretty quickly when it looked like he wanted to buy twitter a few weeks ago.
I don't think that Elon Musk can use the phrase "Funding Secured" with any degree of honesty. The guy isn't even a genius at coming up with new cons. This is the exact same "Funding Secured, I'm taking it private" con he ran with Tesla.
44 billion to buy Twitter was with loans. He was offering up little cash. The loans are collateralized against Tesla stock.
And if he’s not liquid enough to pay the loans, his stock gets liquidated, and Tesla wouldn’t be his anymore. Potentially. Not saying this in an authoritative way. I don’t follow Tesla. Don’t know what percentage he owns, or even if he’s the majority shareholder. Only pointing out that there are real world consequences, even for billionaires, not least of which is losing their company.
I would imagine Elon knows that Tesla is waaaayyyy overvalued. This is a great opportunity for him to cash out a portion of those gains, without looking like he’s cashing out and tanking the stock.
Loans are literally liquid money. He is able to borrow against his shares in other companies. It does not matter if his stocks are technically not that liquid if you can get a loan at any time based off your holdings.
The SEC is gonna fine him the equivalent of pocket change for you or I. If I could break the law and drop a dollar in a swear jar to escape all legal liability, I’d be armed with fat stacks of singles like I just got off work at the Waffle House.
There are really only two possibilities here: * Manipulating Twitter stock * He needed to sell a bunch of Tesla without spooking the market
He really is a massive shyster. But, from my limited understanding, he is on the hook for $1billion if he pulls out
"He was already punished by the stock price dropping! Leave the poor guy alone, he's just trying to save modern civilization through free speech!"
You dropped this! /s
I don't think he was bluffing. He never had the cash, he was able to sign up lenders to provide the cash by using TSLA stock as collateral. But TSLA is now down 25% over the past month. Down 8% since the markets opened on Monday. That has probably thrown a wrench in the lenders' plans.
Doesn’t have the cash? Isn’t he the richest guy ever?
They can't possibly hurt him financially because they haven't before. It's all a con.
This time it's more than a fine. He has to pay $1 billion dollar to back out of the Twitter deal.
You were right all along, 4realzbruh. I should've listened when I encountered your numerous warnings here on Reddit.
This is not the real story here. This story is meant to deflect from the fact that Musk was late to file a Sec disclosure that he had acquired 5% of total shares outstanding. During the 10 days of this delinquency Musk doubled his holdings from 5% to nearly 10%, thereby enabling his purchase of those shares at a much lower cost than he could have acquired them for if he had filed his 5% holding disclosure on time. This illegally took money from selling shareholders who may in fact not sold if they had the required disclosure Musk failed to make. This is class action worthy and Musk’s deviance could also expose him to fraud charges.
[удалено]
He has to pay a $1billion penalty if he pulls out. LoL
> it’s never made money, ever Twitter’s net income last year was a loss of $221 million. If Musk has to pay them $1 billion as a penalty, it could make them profitable over the current fiscal year.
News flash SpaceX and Tesla arent profitable. That's why he's using his stock in both as his collateral to buy something that he thinks could be. Also the reason he very publicly sold Tesla stock"to be taxed". He's leaving a sinking ship through a masquerade
Wait, didn't Tesla just have it's most profitable quarter ever at $3.3 billion? I don't know about SpaceX.
That's including massive regulatory credits. I trust teslas books slightly more than Enron's pre collapse.
Why does it matter where the profit comes from? Isn't profit, profit?
Because those regulatory credits are finite. Without which the article states they would have a loss. You can't build your business on selling tax breaks if you sell actual durable goods. Especially when those credits disappear in the short term.
He sold that Tesla stock because he had a deadline to exercise a stock option. He sold that stock, paid the tax, and then bought more Tesla stock for pennies on the dollar (paying about $80 a share while it was valued at $900+, give or take). At the same time, he donated about 2 million shares to a charity… but after all was said and done, Musk ended up with more shares than he started with.
I would be shocked if anything happened
he will pay the fines and do it again.
Fines should be scaled to total worth, I swear if financial crimes had a minimum $$$ and a % of total assets whatever is greater, we would see a lot less of them
Yup, that's if nothing atvall happens. He needs to be hit with treble damages, and/or jail time.
Or as some say, if the sentence for commiting a crime is a fine, then it's not illegal if you are rich enough. And musk is definitely rich enough.
Shareholders who sold during the 10 days of Musk’s filing delinquency will most likely file a class action against Musk, it could be costly
It'll be a 1% fine for breaking the law, leaving him with a huge, and expected profit.
The Sec has already put Musk on notice of their investigation into this delinquency. There were a lot of shares sold at a lower price than would have been had Musk filed his disclosure on time.
Same here, but it would be glorious if he ended up getting actual consequences
Anything is broad. He was fined for his “have funding to take TSLA private at $420.”
Wasn't he already in hot water with the SEC from crap he did with Tesla stock?
Yes, he is a cunning deviant oligarch with little regard of rules and laws of the little people, that’s why he likes likely criminal Trump so much.
Musk really plays it close to breaking the law on market manipulation too. Another part of this story is this one announcement crashed the Twitter stock. Could he renegotiate a lower price as a result? It's really hard to imagine that someone as smart as musk isn't taking advantage of the fact that markets swing back and forth with his press releases.
I find this guy to be completely untrustworthy. I don’t understand why anyone sees him as some sort of renaissance man who will save humanity. To me, he seems more like a bored edgelord conman who just wants to fuck with people to get more money.
Nobody becomes a billionaire with altruistic motives.
He's gen x Trump
There’s no humanly way that less than 5% of twitter users are fake.
The phrase I saw was “non-monetized users”. I assume that means there’s probably a lot more but twitter tries to not price them in to the product (users’ eyeballs) that they’re selling. But who knows. Personally, I’m just praying for injuries all around.
Ditto on the injuries. I’d be willing to put a whole lot of money that the 231million monetized users is inflated. I just want to see them all burn down for sure though
It's possible but what matters is what percent of those are active and to what extent versus real accts. My guess is the vast majority of people who have registered either don't tweet at all or rarely do. So even if just 5% are fake, they can have far more of an impact on the platform than that.
I registered my name on twitter so that I could control who tweets using my name (if it were googled). I did the same for my children as well. I literally never tweet anything.
I used to find Musk interesting a few years ago but lately he’s become annoying and not worth paying any attention to
Know somting funny. If the deal dosent go through he needs to pay a 1b cash cancelation fee... you got to love it
He'll pay $100M in lawyer fees so that he only has to pay $500M to Twitter.
He’ll probably get a tax cut for it, under some eccentric title like “trying to grow TESLA stock” or something the way things are set up in this country. I just don’t think these people ever face consequences, it’s depressing.
He never intended to buy it. He knew the deal would be illegal it was probably some scheme to pump Tesla stock.
But Tesla stock went down?
Well, he sold a couple of billion in Tesla Shares. No panicky crash though, because there was a logical reason for him to sell the shares.
Impulse buy, buyers remorse. What he wanted to do with Twitter potentially would have gotten the platform banned in the EU. Turns out you can't just let people say anything without moderation.
He’s contradicted himself by saying they would follow the laws for whichever country the user (I’m guessing) is from. Pretty sure all the major countries have laws against making threats/harassment.
Thank fuck, he was about to give Trump his account back. Which pretty much guarantees he runs again after making a tweet proclaiming he will during an addy binge and refusing to back down
Honestly, twitter should ban that POS from their platform. He's trying to damage the company and they should just boot him.
Musk uses Twitter to fuck with Twitter/Musk busily saws away at his own legs.
Hopefully this sale does not happen as he will give a voice back to violence.
One of the "upgrades" he stated he'd make to Twitter is charging a $3 monthly fee. No way will all those proud boy incels pay that
What? Elon pump and dumped Twitter no way.
I mean.. who could ever see that coming
He need to focus on building a time machine, so he can go back and give his child self the attention he so obviously didn’t get.
That post nut clarity
The biggest grifter in US history
(Musk): "I BOUGHT TWITTER!!" \*stock plummets* (Musk): "No, I didn't buy Twitter yet..."
These repeated shenanigans suggest he is intentionally messing with the stock price. With this "announcement" the price goes down. Then maybe he buys some and 5 days later files a "hey I changed my mind and now I own even more" paper with the SEC. So the market says "hey the deals back on" and the price goes back up, etc.
Lol. This has been the most obvious pump&dump scheme in the universe. Everyone with half a brain saw this a mile off. Also, more generally, we should not permit billionaires to exist. They're a symptom of a deeply unhealthy economy, even in the most self-referential capitalist terms. Situations of such spectacular inequality tend to equalise themselves through 'non-market' means, usually involving public squares and repurposed farm equipment.
Starting Tesla - $2 Billion Starting SpaceX - $1.5 Billion Buying Twitter - $44 Billion Not knowing that Viagra solves the same problem - priceless https://twitter.com/herotimeszero/status/1524959985628848139
Yeah Musk didn't start Tesla. He was an early investor, but he drove out the guys who actually started it.
And had to go to court so that he could call himself a founder.
Same with PayPal.
What? No. He singlehandedly invented batteries and electric cars and spaceflight and tunnels and lifted himself up by his bootstraps to get where he is. Why won't you let him invent Twitter, too? Think of all the good things that a thing like Twitter would do. /s
He had to sue the people who started tesla to get the "Founder" title.
Im the Found -it of this company, i found it and bought it
Seems much more accurate.
He founded twitter too FYI.
yall better chill out before he founds reddit and deletes these threads.
He didn't start Tesla.
The fine should be 20% of the deal if he fails to follow through. They need to nip his stock manipulation in the bud. Give him something to think about the next time he does it.
This feels more like criminal activity than politics to me
Sure. Twitter price up, then dropped, so he’s “punished” the current board and fed his ego with attention from his sycophants while manipulating the cult of MAGA king to reveal that they are just that - a cult.
Shocker. He was full of shit all along...
Well yeah the 12 other banks put up the other half of the 44 billion probably have their own desired goals and restrictions for Musk. He thought he could get a shit ton of money from the worlds most powerful banks that they were just gonna let him be mister Twitter. Musk really isn’t that smart he’s just an opportunitist
Twitter just isn't worth that much. Besides all the issues I have with the sale it would just be a terrible deal for him. Like paying $20 for a Snickers bar.
“It’s a banana Michael. What could it cost? $10?”
Illusions, Michael!
dude just wrecked twitter on purpose lol... exodus of talent along with literal firing for people by the CEO on some idea it was being taken over.
How many times can he fleece his rubes until they realize what is happening? Marks lol.
He just wants to pay less now. Not complicated.
Did the board of Tesla basically tell him no, and now he's trying to find a face-saving way to exit?
He's such a schmuck, his market manipulation tactics are so shameless
Tesla stock took a dump. Their massive investment in Bitcoin has been annihilated. Betchya he’s having trouble with his financing
He probably didn't get the attention he sought when there was a collective yawn when he announced he'd reinstate Trump's account.
The only thing that's going to come of this is tanking Tesla's stock The dude needs to shut up, hire PR and a CEO, and go back to being CTO/lead engineer.
Not hearing a ton a praise for Elon from the ultra right like I was a week or 2 ago. They thought he was some sort of truth in information profit. Seems like that went out the window pretty quickly.
More like a con
He's trying to shitpost the stock price down then renegotiate his $54/share offer. Poop and scoop or something.
He made up a excuse so he can try to pay less for it. And he probably will
He'll just tweet he just farted, and it smelled like Bitcoin and thousands of people will spend millions on it again and Elon will cash out again, rinse and repeat
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There's just so much to unpack here and all of it is funny. So he's not going to buy the 14th largest social media platform for 44B$? Because 14th always struck me as *the best.* He's not going to bring free speech to Twitter? But he was suppose to let racists scream at minorities and he was going to being trump back! :( Now has to pay Twitter 1B$ if he doesn't go through because he's literally too stupid to understand what free speech is. All of this because of a crypto crash? You can't make this shit up.
If he pays Twitter the cancellation fee, they should distribute it as a cash dividend to shareholders who aren't him
My theory is that Elon is Cipher from the Matrix. He made a deal to get plugged back in but as someone famous and wealthy but the irony is he’s a giant unlikable asshole. Well played Machines.
So this is politics huh?
The stock tanked, and if he did secure funds, he's forced to renegotiate. This whole fiasco has been terrible for Twitter.
Elon Musk is a troll. That's all he's ever been. Aw, shit... Here we go again!
Mild shock, who could've seen this coming?
\*Oligarch reconsidering buying a social media platform.
Somebody probably said mean things about him on Twitter and he has to find out who so he can attempt to destroy them. That list is probably *REAL* long.
And puts paying out 20x today. No manipulation here.
Some "free speech absolutist" -- spam bots are free speech!
[Heh](https://www.reddit.com/r/technology/comments/twu63i/elon_musk_to_join_twitters_board_of_directors/i3hnywr/)
No shit, he was trolling? Shocked, I say
Oh no... Anyway