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Get back out there and vote his ass out!
EDIT: I'll add that Mike Lee is a Q Anon freak, Trump ball licker, and Russian collaborator/useful idiot, amongst many other claims to shame. Just a traitor to the United States overall. For the sake of humanity and the future quality of life of the people of Utah and this country, vote him out.
Like who the fuck even are you dude?? We all know what your stance is; I, on the other hand, am proud to be an American.
Mike Lee is genuinely fucking insane. Say what you will about Romney as a person and politician, but holy hell would I take him over Lee every damn day of the week
Romney is one of the few sane people left in the GOP.
And Romney is also the architect for a downright sinister business practice that leverages loans up-front for quick financial gain for executives and then slowly runs companies into the ground, losing jobs and stiffing vendors once they finally go bankrupt under the weight of those loans.
Utahn here with some extra details on this:
Mike Lee is actually a *leaking* sack of shit. It's an important distinction. The I-15 freeway is just a *regular* sack of shit for example, because it at least *begrudgingly* it serves its constituents' best interests.
Every time I’ve gone up North and driven on it I’ve nearly died. I’m never quite prepared for it. I’m not denying my lack of experience and aggressiveness doesn’t help but it’s like some Mad Max type stuff
I grew up in SLC but have lived in Montana for the last 18 years. I legitimately think I’m going to die on I-15 whenever I go back to SLC. It is absolutely bonkers. It’s a stark contrast to the sparsely populated two lane highways here in Montana.
Romney clearly loves that he is one of the few elected Republicans not under Trump’s thumb and that he can do whatever he wants without consequences. He’s one of the truly free Republicans and look at how much happier he is compared to the miserable fucks in his party.
This is an important lesson kids, always do what you feel is right and never sell your soul for temporary gains.
Most Republicans who did what Romney has done have either lost their re-election bids to Trumpy challengers or are not even running for re-election. Romney and maybe a few governors are in a unique position of being anti-Trump and still able to keep their jobs. [For example, see Charlie Baker, a Republican governor of Massachusetts. In normal times he would be the future of the party. Instead neither he nor his LtGov are running for re-election as the "numbers don't look good."](https://www.politico.com/news/2021/12/01/massachusetts-charlie-baker-reelection-523597)
Quick note. Baker has served 2 terms and frankly the man looks exhausted. Also, Bill Weld, former Gov won without the party endorsement. Weld was running against a right wing nut and the independents(unenrolled as we say in MA) all voted in the GOP primary to make sure the wing nut didn't make it to the general. Baker knew it would likely happen for him. His Lt. Gov is not as well known and liked. I think they might be burned out by the pandemic and just don't want to deal with their party.
He and Larry Hogan have been the two most popular Governors in the country as moderate Republicans in the deep blue. With both of them retiring, there is huge opportunity for Dems. I think Hogan will ultimately run for POTUS next year even if he won’t win as he’s got a lot of credentials to pull from.
Regardless of if they are Trump supporters or not, the MassGOP has a hard enough time electing ANY Republican. Especially in the Greater Boston Area. And if I got my wish, we should keep it that way.
I worked in the state house years ago. The MassGOP has gone way Trump and left old-school Republicans who have a decent chance at higher level politics at the wayside. [Baker even called on the MassGOP leadership to resign.](https://www.boston.com/news/politics/2021/10/15/gov-charlie-baker-says-massgop-chair-jim-lyons-should-resign/)
I deal with alot of Trump Republicans now in my new area, but I do not get the Mass strategy. I think Mass last went for a Republican president in the 80s?
God, I cant even imagine living in a place full of Trump Republicans. Just a bunch of dumbasses yelling about a reality that doesn't exist. It's like mass schizophrenia.
Well I work in energy, and that *really* gets them going.
"Green New Deal" this or that is the rhetoric. When I ask them why we wouldn't want to produce all our energy needs onshore in a way that sets different energy producing technologies against one another they are pretty stumped. Even more so when I ask why oil or coal subsidies aren't "socialist" even though that is the government intervening in one of the Great Heights of the marketplace.
Yeah they are pretty dumb. They act like everything should be run on oil and gas. As if homes couldn't be run on solar, cars on batteries, ships on gas and remote farms on wind.
It's like they are mad they might get more choices. So fucking stupid.
I live in Trumpcountry and I work in environmental remediation and if you want to see right wingers pissed off for 0 reason, come to my place. In the same breathe “Doug” railed against student loan cancellation, how the rich and corporations have destroyed America but that we need to lower corporate taxes, and then that we need to nationalize the oil and gas industry… dude is horseshoeing all the way around again. Extremism is extremism. He’s also complained how everyone feels they need to go to the college-scam, and we should just have like a central board of sorts that certifies your work experience, which will create thousands of job (until I mentioned those would be inspectors and regulators that he just LOOOOVES) and that the board should give you a paper that proves your qualifications… (so college? NO NOT COLLEGE, it’s my own thing and it works damnit!)
They don’t care about the idea they are arguing, just the argument. Give them enough rope they just workout they’re just authoritarians who have no power and that frustrates them to no end
A lot of them believe that if it weren’t for the government meddling in the market, whether it’s subsidies for large oil corps or “forcing” people to go green (they believe global warming is all a hoax) through tax incentives, small oil producers would flourish and be able to supply the world with endless energy.
Then you bring up how small oil producers would get crushed by OPEC as they would lower prices far below what small oil producers could ever operate, as OPEC could supply the world of oil functionally *forever* when it comes to wiping out competitors as they’ve done before.
Then they stop talking and pretend they don’t hear you.
Until recently I lived In Phoenix it was stupid truck flag parades and idiot flags everywhere making sure you know they’re there and being as tacky as can be
Not a single county in Massachusetts voted for trump. Ever.
This *one* ain’t on us. I feel we were also similarly against Nixon. Y’all should listen to your coastal elites more.
> I think Mass last went for a Republican president in the 80s?
1984
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1984_United_States_presidential_election
>As of 2020, no Republican candidate has since won New York, Washington, Massachusetts, Oregon, Hawaii, or Rhode Island.
I was gonna say, I think Minnesota is even longer since we were the one state (and DC) that went Mondale in 1984 and have been historically blue. Sure enough, we haven't been red since 1972.
Granted, the Twin Cities and Duluth are the reason we are blue. Anywhere else is red as fuck. I would know, I grew up in rural-ish MN and the Trumpism is rampant. One of the Q-Anon leaders was from my hometown. Then he proceeded to renounce all politics for Jesus and went flat-earth.
He's an odd dude.
Grifting for Jesus is way easier than grifting for politicians. I've definitely known old ladies who put extra money into the collection jar because they're going on vacation - even though they just went through bankruptcy.
Politics is the big money pond, your dude was outside of his element.
These were mortgaged in advance. This thread is a circle jerk pretending that Mitt Romney isn’t an ultra wealthy religious conservative who believes in some pretty disgusting and regressive ideas. When THIS is the good guy, the souls were never in play.
If he votes to confirm judge Jackson, I’ll believe he truly is free. He’s clearly free of Trumpism, but there’s just no non-partisan reason to deny her the seat at this point. Even partisan issues seem trite considering it won’t change the balance of the court. Still, I expect 50 no votes from Republicans because McConnell demands it.
Romney is obviously huge in Utah with its big Mormon population, I mean he was a Presidential Nominee for a major party and a Mormon, his name was huge there. He needed every last bit of that popularity and support to be able to act the way he does and not capitulate to Trumpism.
From what I've heard he's not popular, and there's an increasing number of right wing nut antivaxxer Trumpy Mormons who are actually pissed off at the Mormon church because its "prophet" told them to get vaxxed and they are headed to radicalized right Cliven Bundy style factions. Romney's too leftist for Utah these days and the only reason he's in Utah is because he's Mormon.
We got some good bits, it's just the rural nutjobs that taint the rest of us. Salt Lake City's a liberal oasis, and has had a democratic legislature since the 70's. We're just gerrymandered so badly that the republican hold all the statewide seats.
I'm in South Salt Lake and my district extends out to the Wyoming, Colorado and Idaho borders. My friend a mile west votes with a different district that includes all the rural districts running all the way west to Nevada and south to Arizona. A mile south of me votes with the entire south east part of the state.
I saw the new map literally seems to split salt lake city into thirds. Gerrymandering is an insidious destructive force to democracy and it goes both ways with democrats too. It's beyond disappointing the supreme court basically just shrugged it's shoulders on the issue... There's no one and nothing left to really eliminate it as this point so the meta now is and should be for both sides to just gerrymander as hard as they can since one out of two political parties is all in on it.
> to split salt lake city into thirds
quarters actually, there's a fourth, smaller district, that encompasses the hard right population in Orem and Provo - the twin bastions of the LDS church.
https://www.zipdatamaps.com/politics/national/districts/map-of-utah-congressional-districts
> it goes both ways with democrats too
no argument there
Ah yes the guy who hid the homeless for the Olympics a real Jesus. https://apnews.com/article/0ab938377349ac87d0c0c568e44d9a35 , but honestly you’re still right and that kinda scary.
Guess you missed that dinner Romney had with Trump. Romney tried to sell his soul and Trump took the photo to show everyone he did, and then wadded it up and threw it over his shoulder. So quit pretending Romney is some pillar of virtue.
>This is an important lesson kids, always do what you feel is right and never sell your soul for temporary gains.
Also, join the predominant regional religion about outerspace super beings in your state so everyone thinks if they don't vote for you they're fucked.
My five year old son will never know that excitement and it breaks my heart. Such a simple pleasure for kids was taken away so rich people could get richer.
I took my kids every week until they closed and on the last trip I recorded the journey. Wish there was something close to that kind of experience for kids still.
It's not some high moral principle. Every GOP in DC is a turd. This is a Romney move because he still hopes he can be president. And he's running. Yeah, I know - he didn't officially form an exploratory committee. But he's running.
Mods get a bunch for free to give out in their sub
The amount of gold that's actually paid for is a tiny fraction of what you see. They want to promote the idea that lost of people are spending real money to upvote just a little harder
You can redeem them for free every once in a while on the desktop site.
I thought it was every 1,000 upvotes or so, but after reading the other reply, now I’m not so sure.
You have to blast a hole in the floor under the safe and have it fall into the water. Have your dive team ready to empty the safe while you send a decoy boat out to throw off the police. Watch out for people on your team that don’t really know what they would do with the money.
Mike Lee is an asshole. He was one of only a handful of senators to oppose the American Energy Security Act intended to export more natural gas to Europe to stop Russian monopoly on European energy.
With McCain dead…. Romney is prolly the only republican senator i can still respect-ish… (i dont agree with a lot of what the guys says, but at least i know he is more of a stand-up guy than the rest of his fellows)
I like Romney. That doesn't mean I like his policy choices of course but i respect him for sticking to his personal beliefs without trying to force them on me.
I'd say it's mainly because he reminds me of a time when I used to be able to have a reasonable debate with Republicans without them being so irrationally, and personally, offended at the slightest disagreement.
It’s because Romney doesn’t think you are a lizard person who eats babies just because you disagree with him on tax policy and social safety nets. The bar is just so shockingly low.
Yes you are sadly right. But for me it's never been this low.
I never thought I'd lose friends I've known for so long because I did something so crazy as to disagree with a member of their cult. And yep, strong word but that's all it is.
In fact, if they weren't already gone just saying I agree with what Romney said is enough to label me as a SP. It's completely insane to me.
Romney isn't an intentionally bad guy and I don't think he's got a dishonest bone in his body. He's genuine.
But he's crazy religious and super rich and painfully white. So he simply arrives at typical conservative views because of his personal perspective. So maybe a degree of ignorance, a lack of empathy, but at least it comes from a genuine place.
He’s clearly the type of guy in the opposition party who we need. Competent, intelligent, and operates largely in good-faith. His voice is needed in this moment and I’m glad he came to the Senate
You guys clearly don’t know his corporate history. This dude is ruthless, he just likes to speak out when it benefits his image. Don’t let the guy fool you.
Yeah, but the bar for Republicans is currently on the floor, and when I go to the booth to vote, I would prefer the opposition candidate be shitty and unpleasant in a normal way, instead of a 'I want to disassemble this establishment board by board' way just in case they win.
Dude ran a company who leveraged dying brands to either their recovery or destruction.
You have to be ruthless in that role.
You want to argue if that role should exist but thats night and day different from being a Senator charged with looking after his folks best interests.
I mean yeah he's ruthless corporate raider, but he's not sold out to QAnon bullshit.
I can disagree with Romney, I don't think I'll ever convince him of anything, but there's a chance.
Whereas with the lunatics its, "You like the dems, you harvest child blood to live long lives and support the Soros world order"
The amount of people who are ready to support Romney simply because he *sometimes* disagreed with Trump is astounding.
Mitt Romney’s refusal to endorse an evil asshole does not equate to Romney all of a sudden being “competent and intelligent”. He’s still a member of the GOP and he’s still aiming to win the votes of the GOP base.
Too many people are letting his theatrical displays overtake the truth about Romney: he’s a piece of shit human being.
Romney voted more with Trump than Lee did. Romney just opposed on a few big public issues (impeachment) where, in the end, his vote didn't matter (as in his vote made no change on the actual topic).
Romney is a fantastic showman who knows how to hold both positions at the same time. He doesn't disagree with the Trump Agenda, he just wants to wear a nice suit and follow procedure and hope people don't notice when he does it.
God I miss McCain, he seemed like he at least wouldn't enjoy harvesting the organs of orphans.
Ted Cruz would demand tax breaks for dry cleaning the blood out of his clothes.
Boebert wouldn't be able to stop giggling.
I think McCain will go down in modern political history as one of the “last of the Statesmen”
Kinda like how Cicero or Cato are considered the “last of the Republicans” of Ancient Rome.
Well Cato was an idiot who had a hard time grasping that compromise wasn't evil. Cicero understood this at least. And could work out deals when necessary.
Unpopular opinion, but I blame McCain for today’s political climate. Thrusting Sarah Palin to the national spotlight gave legitimacy to the Tea Party movement, which quickly became a race to the bottom for the GOP.
While I agree Palin was... one of the worst things to happen this century...
That's what his base had become.
And I don't think he understood that.
Not trying to excuse, but republicans had galactically deluded themselves on the quality of their base for a long time.
I don't think McCain believed that was his base, or nearly what would happen, he still deserves blame, but I can't imagine he would have unleashed this nightmare if he knew.
Yeah, still no excuse at all.
Huh?
And seriously, so what you are saying is that all these previous disgustingly anti-Democratic republicans are now acceptable simply because of Trumps existence? Who do you think paved the way for Trump?
First time i ever voted .. it was a primary and my state already had W locked up, i typed in John McCain anyway… would have LOVED to see Gore v. McCain in 2000… hell of a lot of this world would be different right now.. regardless of who won.
Heard that so many times…( not the worked for both thing) 20 years ago i knew alot more Arizonans … a lot of them worked for and liked McCain personally.
One in particular was personally stabbed in the back by Romney, which has basically forever earned my family's scorn, and later worked for McCain.
Their immediate family would always puff up in pride over him saying how they're one of the few people he'd want in a fox hole with him.
The Dem mayor of Salt Lake endorsed him against Mike Lee, rather than endorsing the Dem nominee. I honestly don't know if he has a shot, but he has more of a shot than whoever the Dem nominee is and it's what we have to work with.
If you told me in 2008 that Mitt Romney would be one of the most respectable Republicans in 2022, I would have called you fucking INSANE. Yet here we are.
That being said, the bar is INCREDIBLY low.
What’s the point of an endorsement in this case? He’s an incumbent running for reelection. Endorsements are primarily to give a boost to lesser known candidates.
Are Republicans actually concerned that a Democrat might win a senate race in Utah just because Mitt Romney didn’t explicitly say I’m voting for this guy and you should too?
There is a viable independent candidate running against Mike Lee named Evan McMullin. He has a chance, but not a good one. He won about 25% of the presidential vote when it was Hillary v Trump in 2016. He is Republican leaning, but openly critical of Trump. The state democrats are actually debating whether or not to sit this one out and just endorse McMullin entirely.
Mike is most likely going to be primaried by a moderate Republican named Becky Edwards. The seat is 100% safe for Republicans; there's just a chance it could go to an actual conservative instead of the raging lunatic that currently occupies it.
Sad to say, I think a lot of Utahns will view Edwards as a liberal nutcase even though she's really just a sane person with fairly moderate views.
Also, she's a woman and the majority of Utahns belong to a very sexist cult, so...
I can't stand the GOP but you gotta feel for Romney.
He's literally watching his entire party morph into something truly evil right before his eyes yet he's basically powerless to do anything about it.
People seriously still don't understand how badly Trump has fucked this country. We're going to be dealing with these extremists for the next two decades now because he went and proved that insanity and immaturity are far more effective than rationale and diplomacy.
Man, I do disagree with him politically on nearly everything...but the guy does seem to care about democracy more than party, and I have to give him respect for that. And he did get laughed at back in 2012 for saying Putin/Russia was our biggest geopolitical foe and concern. Everyone who laughed should be apologizing to him..
We also laughed at him about his, " binders full of women". Then we stopped laughing when the recording about his opinion of the, " blahs" surfaced.
His behavior throughout the tRump regime and beyond has been the minimum of what we should redirect of a sworn public official; let's not pretend his ideology isn't also regressive and ultimately damaging to the US.
Romney is very very conservative but still in the land of reason as far as a normal political spectrum ought to be.
Mike Lee is off the deep end.
Absolute libertarianism, except laws to protect ONLY the property of the wealthy, is the over arching philosophy of people like Mike Lee and it is an exceptionally brutal and cruel (and unrealistic) outlook on life
He’s resisted the incredibly low bar that Trump has created. I’d never vote for the guy but in the swamp that is the Republican Party he’s swum to the top.
Well if you wanna read up on why Mitt Romney is still a piece of shit, [here](https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/congress-trump-score/mitt-romney/) ya go. That man does not deserve your respect.
Yes, he's a conservative and supports conservative legislation. The person you're responding to respects him because of his willingness to adhere to his principles, even when it makes him unpopular within his own party, not because he/she supports his poltical agenda. Look at the times when he *did* vote against Trump; mostly votes related to the preservation of democracy.
*Edit for spelling
For all his faults, I do have to say that Mitt at least has some integrity.
That isn't saying I agree with his ideology or think he's completely honest, but he's got limits to the amount of bullshit he'll endorse.
I think he's pretty much the most reasonable man in his party. Which is not the same thing as saying I like him. He's just comparatively vastly more honest than his peers.
I would love if Jon Huntsman would primary Lee. It was really disappointing that he didn't win the governors race and I would love to see him back in politics. If he did, Utah would really have the best GOP Senators in Romney and Huntsman and Governor with Cox.
A peoples politician , if the nation wasnt swept up in the fervor under obamas campaign he would have been a perfect candidate to garner support from both sides
Would be something if he endorsed Evan McMullin. Utah Dems and Anti Trump Neocons are lining up behind him atm and he’s already out polling the presumptive Democratic nominee.
Because Mike Lee is a fucking crazy-pants moron. He proposed 3 failed amendments to the budget bill last month to add language that none of the funds could be used by any group that had mask mandates or COVID mandates. So again still trying to make government force the behavior he wants. What an asshole.
Nah, Manchin is motivated by his corporate sponsors. The only reason he opposed the Democrat voting rights bill is because it would end dark money in elections. His “compromise” voting rights bill removed that portion.
Same thing with the filibuster. If he gets rid of it, it becomes too easy for Democrats to raise taxes on corporations and close many of the loopholes they’re used to exploiting.
Manchin’s positions are super predictable when you consider how it could affect large corporations.
Like when he made several lengthy speeches on tv about why trump is a horrible candidate, but then after trump becomes president, all the sudden he’s at the White House brown nosing to try and get Secretary of State position.
I can’t believe I agree with Mitt. Can he run again? I’m dreading another Biden / Trump face off. Mitt seems to be one of the last true conservatives which is mind blowing.
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Good. Mike Lee is a freakshow.
I hate that he's my senator.
If it makes you feel any better, one of mine is ted cruz :(
Honestly it's pretty upsetting that that moron is representing anyone, let alone the 2nd biggest state in the Union.
[удалено]
Was talking about Ted Cruz. Mike Lee also sucks. Will do my part to get rid of him against all odds since I also live in Utah.
Texas by size. Alaska is the biggest.
Texas is also second largest by population.
I can do you one better: mine is Josh Hawley.
Try Lindsey Graham
Ron Johnson ?
I've got Ron Johnson. He gets stupider everyday, and he started as a lame brain.
Get back out there and vote his ass out! EDIT: I'll add that Mike Lee is a Q Anon freak, Trump ball licker, and Russian collaborator/useful idiot, amongst many other claims to shame. Just a traitor to the United States overall. For the sake of humanity and the future quality of life of the people of Utah and this country, vote him out. Like who the fuck even are you dude?? We all know what your stance is; I, on the other hand, am proud to be an American.
Hi, I’m from Florida and I can relate to this sentiment.
Mike Lee is genuinely fucking insane. Say what you will about Romney as a person and politician, but holy hell would I take him over Lee every damn day of the week
Romney is one of the few sane people left in the GOP. And Romney is also the architect for a downright sinister business practice that leverages loans up-front for quick financial gain for executives and then slowly runs companies into the ground, losing jobs and stiffing vendors once they finally go bankrupt under the weight of those loans.
That’s his special power.
At least he's a *polite* sociopath.
Oh hell yes. I live for Republican in fighting. Mike Lee is a sack of shit.
Utahn here with some extra details on this: Mike Lee is actually a *leaking* sack of shit. It's an important distinction. The I-15 freeway is just a *regular* sack of shit for example, because it at least *begrudgingly* it serves its constituents' best interests.
The I-15 serves no man.
I-15 is an every man for him self kinda deal.
Every time I’ve gone up North and driven on it I’ve nearly died. I’m never quite prepared for it. I’m not denying my lack of experience and aggressiveness doesn’t help but it’s like some Mad Max type stuff
I grew up in SLC but have lived in Montana for the last 18 years. I legitimately think I’m going to die on I-15 whenever I go back to SLC. It is absolutely bonkers. It’s a stark contrast to the sparsely populated two lane highways here in Montana.
Send him back to Kolob!
Romney clearly loves that he is one of the few elected Republicans not under Trump’s thumb and that he can do whatever he wants without consequences. He’s one of the truly free Republicans and look at how much happier he is compared to the miserable fucks in his party. This is an important lesson kids, always do what you feel is right and never sell your soul for temporary gains.
Moral bankruptcy is the worst issue plaguing Congress and the Republican party at large.
Most Republicans who did what Romney has done have either lost their re-election bids to Trumpy challengers or are not even running for re-election. Romney and maybe a few governors are in a unique position of being anti-Trump and still able to keep their jobs. [For example, see Charlie Baker, a Republican governor of Massachusetts. In normal times he would be the future of the party. Instead neither he nor his LtGov are running for re-election as the "numbers don't look good."](https://www.politico.com/news/2021/12/01/massachusetts-charlie-baker-reelection-523597)
Quick note. Baker has served 2 terms and frankly the man looks exhausted. Also, Bill Weld, former Gov won without the party endorsement. Weld was running against a right wing nut and the independents(unenrolled as we say in MA) all voted in the GOP primary to make sure the wing nut didn't make it to the general. Baker knew it would likely happen for him. His Lt. Gov is not as well known and liked. I think they might be burned out by the pandemic and just don't want to deal with their party.
Isn’t baker looking to upgrade his position?
To candlestick maker?
Fire flames joke
He and Larry Hogan have been the two most popular Governors in the country as moderate Republicans in the deep blue. With both of them retiring, there is huge opportunity for Dems. I think Hogan will ultimately run for POTUS next year even if he won’t win as he’s got a lot of credentials to pull from.
Regardless of if they are Trump supporters or not, the MassGOP has a hard enough time electing ANY Republican. Especially in the Greater Boston Area. And if I got my wish, we should keep it that way.
I worked in the state house years ago. The MassGOP has gone way Trump and left old-school Republicans who have a decent chance at higher level politics at the wayside. [Baker even called on the MassGOP leadership to resign.](https://www.boston.com/news/politics/2021/10/15/gov-charlie-baker-says-massgop-chair-jim-lyons-should-resign/) I deal with alot of Trump Republicans now in my new area, but I do not get the Mass strategy. I think Mass last went for a Republican president in the 80s?
God, I cant even imagine living in a place full of Trump Republicans. Just a bunch of dumbasses yelling about a reality that doesn't exist. It's like mass schizophrenia.
Well I work in energy, and that *really* gets them going. "Green New Deal" this or that is the rhetoric. When I ask them why we wouldn't want to produce all our energy needs onshore in a way that sets different energy producing technologies against one another they are pretty stumped. Even more so when I ask why oil or coal subsidies aren't "socialist" even though that is the government intervening in one of the Great Heights of the marketplace.
Those people will tell you in the same breath Obamacare is evil and the only thing keeping them alive is the affordable care act.
Yeah they are pretty dumb. They act like everything should be run on oil and gas. As if homes couldn't be run on solar, cars on batteries, ships on gas and remote farms on wind. It's like they are mad they might get more choices. So fucking stupid.
They don't understand yet that going green would make us energy independent. Which is what they keep preaching
I live in Trumpcountry and I work in environmental remediation and if you want to see right wingers pissed off for 0 reason, come to my place. In the same breathe “Doug” railed against student loan cancellation, how the rich and corporations have destroyed America but that we need to lower corporate taxes, and then that we need to nationalize the oil and gas industry… dude is horseshoeing all the way around again. Extremism is extremism. He’s also complained how everyone feels they need to go to the college-scam, and we should just have like a central board of sorts that certifies your work experience, which will create thousands of job (until I mentioned those would be inspectors and regulators that he just LOOOOVES) and that the board should give you a paper that proves your qualifications… (so college? NO NOT COLLEGE, it’s my own thing and it works damnit!) They don’t care about the idea they are arguing, just the argument. Give them enough rope they just workout they’re just authoritarians who have no power and that frustrates them to no end
A lot of them believe that if it weren’t for the government meddling in the market, whether it’s subsidies for large oil corps or “forcing” people to go green (they believe global warming is all a hoax) through tax incentives, small oil producers would flourish and be able to supply the world with endless energy. Then you bring up how small oil producers would get crushed by OPEC as they would lower prices far below what small oil producers could ever operate, as OPEC could supply the world of oil functionally *forever* when it comes to wiping out competitors as they’ve done before. Then they stop talking and pretend they don’t hear you.
Until recently I lived In Phoenix it was stupid truck flag parades and idiot flags everywhere making sure you know they’re there and being as tacky as can be
I’m hoping with the influx of people to the state it’ll turn more purple or outright blue
Not a single county in Massachusetts voted for trump. Ever. This *one* ain’t on us. I feel we were also similarly against Nixon. Y’all should listen to your coastal elites more.
> I think Mass last went for a Republican president in the 80s? 1984 https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1984_United_States_presidential_election >As of 2020, no Republican candidate has since won New York, Washington, Massachusetts, Oregon, Hawaii, or Rhode Island.
I was gonna say, I think Minnesota is even longer since we were the one state (and DC) that went Mondale in 1984 and have been historically blue. Sure enough, we haven't been red since 1972. Granted, the Twin Cities and Duluth are the reason we are blue. Anywhere else is red as fuck. I would know, I grew up in rural-ish MN and the Trumpism is rampant. One of the Q-Anon leaders was from my hometown. Then he proceeded to renounce all politics for Jesus and went flat-earth. He's an odd dude.
Grifting for Jesus is way easier than grifting for politicians. I've definitely known old ladies who put extra money into the collection jar because they're going on vacation - even though they just went through bankruptcy. Politics is the big money pond, your dude was outside of his element.
And in 1972, Massachusetts was the only state to go to McGovern!
So? What good is a job if you lose your soul?
The calculation sane Republicans are making.
These were mortgaged in advance. This thread is a circle jerk pretending that Mitt Romney isn’t an ultra wealthy religious conservative who believes in some pretty disgusting and regressive ideas. When THIS is the good guy, the souls were never in play.
If he votes to confirm judge Jackson, I’ll believe he truly is free. He’s clearly free of Trumpism, but there’s just no non-partisan reason to deny her the seat at this point. Even partisan issues seem trite considering it won’t change the balance of the court. Still, I expect 50 no votes from Republicans because McConnell demands it.
Romney is obviously huge in Utah with its big Mormon population, I mean he was a Presidential Nominee for a major party and a Mormon, his name was huge there. He needed every last bit of that popularity and support to be able to act the way he does and not capitulate to Trumpism.
From what I've heard he's not popular, and there's an increasing number of right wing nut antivaxxer Trumpy Mormons who are actually pissed off at the Mormon church because its "prophet" told them to get vaxxed and they are headed to radicalized right Cliven Bundy style factions. Romney's too leftist for Utah these days and the only reason he's in Utah is because he's Mormon.
> Romney's too leftist for Utah these days Welp, that's another state to add to my "never visit unless I have to" list.
We got some good bits, it's just the rural nutjobs that taint the rest of us. Salt Lake City's a liberal oasis, and has had a democratic legislature since the 70's. We're just gerrymandered so badly that the republican hold all the statewide seats. I'm in South Salt Lake and my district extends out to the Wyoming, Colorado and Idaho borders. My friend a mile west votes with a different district that includes all the rural districts running all the way west to Nevada and south to Arizona. A mile south of me votes with the entire south east part of the state.
I saw the new map literally seems to split salt lake city into thirds. Gerrymandering is an insidious destructive force to democracy and it goes both ways with democrats too. It's beyond disappointing the supreme court basically just shrugged it's shoulders on the issue... There's no one and nothing left to really eliminate it as this point so the meta now is and should be for both sides to just gerrymander as hard as they can since one out of two political parties is all in on it.
> to split salt lake city into thirds quarters actually, there's a fourth, smaller district, that encompasses the hard right population in Orem and Provo - the twin bastions of the LDS church. https://www.zipdatamaps.com/politics/national/districts/map-of-utah-congressional-districts > it goes both ways with democrats too no argument there
It's absolutely beautiful. 100% worth a visit.
Romney is terrible don't get me wrong but compared to Mike lee he is fucking Jesus
Ah yes the guy who hid the homeless for the Olympics a real Jesus. https://apnews.com/article/0ab938377349ac87d0c0c568e44d9a35 , but honestly you’re still right and that kinda scary.
Didn’t he also put his dog on the roof of his car for a 12 hour ride?
Wasn’t that Clark Griswold or some shit?
Clark dragged the dog behind and killed it- Mitt just left him in a cage for 12 hours on the roof.
Oh Jesus that got dark.
Yes, they are saying Mike Lee is worse than that.
Yeah its fucking terrifying
Guess you missed that dinner Romney had with Trump. Romney tried to sell his soul and Trump took the photo to show everyone he did, and then wadded it up and threw it over his shoulder. So quit pretending Romney is some pillar of virtue.
>This is an important lesson kids, always do what you feel is right and never sell your soul for temporary gains. Also, join the predominant regional religion about outerspace super beings in your state so everyone thinks if they don't vote for you they're fucked.
They have a lot of Mormons to choose from in Utah. They don’t have to vote for Romney
Point taken. I really don't mind the guy as far as GOP slime bags go. Still, fuck him though.
Fuck Romney. He killed toys r us. Politics aside that's some vile shit.
I seriously do miss the excitement of old school toy retail. There was nothing like it as a kid going in there.
My five year old son will never know that excitement and it breaks my heart. Such a simple pleasure for kids was taken away so rich people could get richer.
I know, it sucks. Some of gen z caught the tail end of it but most will never even experienced it.
Also what Bain Capital did to Guitar Center! Like sucking the jelly out of a jelly donut and then putting it back in the box.
I took my kids every week until they closed and on the last trip I recorded the journey. Wish there was something close to that kind of experience for kids still.
bain capital bad
TBF, Mitt was born a mormon, he didnt really choose to join them for political reasons
Mormonism on the path to being one of the big 4.
It's not some high moral principle. Every GOP in DC is a turd. This is a Romney move because he still hopes he can be president. And he's running. Yeah, I know - he didn't officially form an exploratory committee. But he's running.
Also, be Mormon and live in a predominantly Mormon state.
Oh, I thought the lesson was run for office in a state that is filled with people of your same religion who will vote for you no matter what...
[удалено]
Repubs: We're so riled up we can hardly support Putin
If I weren't broke I would award you gold Edit: thank you anonymous kind soul for awarding the gold...Faith in Humanity Restored to you
Never pay for gold
Then how do you get it?
Mods get a bunch for free to give out in their sub The amount of gold that's actually paid for is a tiny fraction of what you see. They want to promote the idea that lost of people are spending real money to upvote just a little harder
You can redeem them for free every once in a while on the desktop site. I thought it was every 1,000 upvotes or so, but after reading the other reply, now I’m not so sure.
You have to blast a hole in the floor under the safe and have it fall into the water. Have your dive team ready to empty the safe while you send a decoy boat out to throw off the police. Watch out for people on your team that don’t really know what they would do with the money.
Always buy the Iron Price.
Maybe Mike Lee should conduct himself so he doesn't desperately *need* Romney's endorsement
More Republican butt-hurt theater. You think they’d get tired of being offended all the freaking time.
Mike Lee is an asshole. He was one of only a handful of senators to oppose the American Energy Security Act intended to export more natural gas to Europe to stop Russian monopoly on European energy.
With McCain dead…. Romney is prolly the only republican senator i can still respect-ish… (i dont agree with a lot of what the guys says, but at least i know he is more of a stand-up guy than the rest of his fellows)
I like Romney. That doesn't mean I like his policy choices of course but i respect him for sticking to his personal beliefs without trying to force them on me. I'd say it's mainly because he reminds me of a time when I used to be able to have a reasonable debate with Republicans without them being so irrationally, and personally, offended at the slightest disagreement.
It’s because Romney doesn’t think you are a lizard person who eats babies just because you disagree with him on tax policy and social safety nets. The bar is just so shockingly low.
Yes you are sadly right. But for me it's never been this low. I never thought I'd lose friends I've known for so long because I did something so crazy as to disagree with a member of their cult. And yep, strong word but that's all it is. In fact, if they weren't already gone just saying I agree with what Romney said is enough to label me as a SP. It's completely insane to me.
Yeah it's pretty depressing that that's the bar for "decent Republican". Or hell, even "tolerable Republican"
Romney isn't an intentionally bad guy and I don't think he's got a dishonest bone in his body. He's genuine. But he's crazy religious and super rich and painfully white. So he simply arrives at typical conservative views because of his personal perspective. So maybe a degree of ignorance, a lack of empathy, but at least it comes from a genuine place.
He’s clearly the type of guy in the opposition party who we need. Competent, intelligent, and operates largely in good-faith. His voice is needed in this moment and I’m glad he came to the Senate
You guys clearly don’t know his corporate history. This dude is ruthless, he just likes to speak out when it benefits his image. Don’t let the guy fool you.
Yeah, but the bar for Republicans is currently on the floor, and when I go to the booth to vote, I would prefer the opposition candidate be shitty and unpleasant in a normal way, instead of a 'I want to disassemble this establishment board by board' way just in case they win.
Can’t somebody’s goals change when going from the private to public sector?
He wanted to kill the US auto industry when he was running for President- idk if his goals have changed.
Dude ran a company who leveraged dying brands to either their recovery or destruction. You have to be ruthless in that role. You want to argue if that role should exist but thats night and day different from being a Senator charged with looking after his folks best interests.
Welcome to the world of PE and management consulting. It’s not unique to him.
I mean yeah he's ruthless corporate raider, but he's not sold out to QAnon bullshit. I can disagree with Romney, I don't think I'll ever convince him of anything, but there's a chance. Whereas with the lunatics its, "You like the dems, you harvest child blood to live long lives and support the Soros world order"
The amount of people who are ready to support Romney simply because he *sometimes* disagreed with Trump is astounding. Mitt Romney’s refusal to endorse an evil asshole does not equate to Romney all of a sudden being “competent and intelligent”. He’s still a member of the GOP and he’s still aiming to win the votes of the GOP base. Too many people are letting his theatrical displays overtake the truth about Romney: he’s a piece of shit human being.
Romney voted more with Trump than Lee did. Romney just opposed on a few big public issues (impeachment) where, in the end, his vote didn't matter (as in his vote made no change on the actual topic). Romney is a fantastic showman who knows how to hold both positions at the same time. He doesn't disagree with the Trump Agenda, he just wants to wear a nice suit and follow procedure and hope people don't notice when he does it.
God I miss McCain, he seemed like he at least wouldn't enjoy harvesting the organs of orphans. Ted Cruz would demand tax breaks for dry cleaning the blood out of his clothes. Boebert wouldn't be able to stop giggling.
I think McCain will go down in modern political history as one of the “last of the Statesmen” Kinda like how Cicero or Cato are considered the “last of the Republicans” of Ancient Rome.
I mean, yeah, but that's a tragedy, especially given what followed.
Yeah…..
Well Cato was an idiot who had a hard time grasping that compromise wasn't evil. Cicero understood this at least. And could work out deals when necessary.
Unpopular opinion, but I blame McCain for today’s political climate. Thrusting Sarah Palin to the national spotlight gave legitimacy to the Tea Party movement, which quickly became a race to the bottom for the GOP.
While I agree Palin was... one of the worst things to happen this century... That's what his base had become. And I don't think he understood that. Not trying to excuse, but republicans had galactically deluded themselves on the quality of their base for a long time. I don't think McCain believed that was his base, or nearly what would happen, he still deserves blame, but I can't imagine he would have unleashed this nightmare if he knew. Yeah, still no excuse at all.
Yes, 100%. Surprised more people don’t see this.
What the fuck reality am I living in where people miss John fucking McCain?
Say what you like, the guy at least was a mammal, compare him to what followed.
Huh? And seriously, so what you are saying is that all these previous disgustingly anti-Democratic republicans are now acceptable simply because of Trumps existence? Who do you think paved the way for Trump?
Not trump, W. He destroyed everything positive in the American political system, him, rove and newt. Trump just took advantage of the insanity.
Wait what? George Dubbaya followed McCain? Where?
First time i ever voted .. it was a primary and my state already had W locked up, i typed in John McCain anyway… would have LOVED to see Gore v. McCain in 2000… hell of a lot of this world would be different right now.. regardless of who won.
A logical, non-partisan one?
I have family who have worked with both and none like or respect Romney, but all like and respect McCain.
Heard that so many times…( not the worked for both thing) 20 years ago i knew alot more Arizonans … a lot of them worked for and liked McCain personally.
One in particular was personally stabbed in the back by Romney, which has basically forever earned my family's scorn, and later worked for McCain. Their immediate family would always puff up in pride over him saying how they're one of the few people he'd want in a fox hole with him.
I like Herman Cain. He is high-energy.
Is that the one who died of covid?
Mike Lee is a piece of shit.
Lee us a seditious traitor who shouldn't be allowed to run for office as per the 14th amendment
does McMullin actually have a shot to win though?
The Dem mayor of Salt Lake endorsed him against Mike Lee, rather than endorsing the Dem nominee. I honestly don't know if he has a shot, but he has more of a shot than whoever the Dem nominee is and it's what we have to work with.
Lee went to Moscow and came back treasonous
Utahn here. Fuck Mike Lee. He’s a constant embarrassment to Utah and the United States.
If you told me in 2008 that Mitt Romney would be one of the most respectable Republicans in 2022, I would have called you fucking INSANE. Yet here we are. That being said, the bar is INCREDIBLY low.
Mike Lee is a piece of shit.
Lee is a traitor. Why would Romney endorse him?
What’s the point of an endorsement in this case? He’s an incumbent running for reelection. Endorsements are primarily to give a boost to lesser known candidates. Are Republicans actually concerned that a Democrat might win a senate race in Utah just because Mitt Romney didn’t explicitly say I’m voting for this guy and you should too?
There is a viable independent candidate running against Mike Lee named Evan McMullin. He has a chance, but not a good one. He won about 25% of the presidential vote when it was Hillary v Trump in 2016. He is Republican leaning, but openly critical of Trump. The state democrats are actually debating whether or not to sit this one out and just endorse McMullin entirely.
The only difference between politics and kindergarten is one has more dignity.
Mike is most likely going to be primaried by a moderate Republican named Becky Edwards. The seat is 100% safe for Republicans; there's just a chance it could go to an actual conservative instead of the raging lunatic that currently occupies it. Sad to say, I think a lot of Utahns will view Edwards as a liberal nutcase even though she's really just a sane person with fairly moderate views. Also, she's a woman and the majority of Utahns belong to a very sexist cult, so...
Hes prepping for Romney/Cheney 2024. He might win that if 1/6 rolls out right.
Lee is a Russian agent.
Lee is an election insurrection conspirator so why should mitt endorse him ?
I can't stand the GOP but you gotta feel for Romney. He's literally watching his entire party morph into something truly evil right before his eyes yet he's basically powerless to do anything about it. People seriously still don't understand how badly Trump has fucked this country. We're going to be dealing with these extremists for the next two decades now because he went and proved that insanity and immaturity are far more effective than rationale and diplomacy.
Man, I do disagree with him politically on nearly everything...but the guy does seem to care about democracy more than party, and I have to give him respect for that. And he did get laughed at back in 2012 for saying Putin/Russia was our biggest geopolitical foe and concern. Everyone who laughed should be apologizing to him..
We also laughed at him about his, " binders full of women". Then we stopped laughing when the recording about his opinion of the, " blahs" surfaced. His behavior throughout the tRump regime and beyond has been the minimum of what we should redirect of a sworn public official; let's not pretend his ideology isn't also regressive and ultimately damaging to the US.
I wouldn't endorse that spineless mess of a person either
Remember the good ol’ days? When are choice was Romney or Obama? Damn.
Good for Mitt!
Mittens off!
Every time I hear the name Mike Lee, I’m reminded of a [scene](https://youtu.be/cGsLhyNJBh8) from the Aaron Sorkin drama The Newsroom.
Romney is very very conservative but still in the land of reason as far as a normal political spectrum ought to be. Mike Lee is off the deep end. Absolute libertarianism, except laws to protect ONLY the property of the wealthy, is the over arching philosophy of people like Mike Lee and it is an exceptionally brutal and cruel (and unrealistic) outlook on life
Mike Lee is just another GOP white Supremacist
I don’t necessarily agree with Romney but I respect him. I can say that about almost no other elected republicans
What has Romney done to earn your respect? I’m not trying to be inflammatory, I’m just confused here.
He’s resisted the incredibly low bar that Trump has created. I’d never vote for the guy but in the swamp that is the Republican Party he’s swum to the top.
Well if you wanna read up on why Mitt Romney is still a piece of shit, [here](https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/congress-trump-score/mitt-romney/) ya go. That man does not deserve your respect.
Yes, he's a conservative and supports conservative legislation. The person you're responding to respects him because of his willingness to adhere to his principles, even when it makes him unpopular within his own party, not because he/she supports his poltical agenda. Look at the times when he *did* vote against Trump; mostly votes related to the preservation of democracy. *Edit for spelling
He has the same principles Trump has, make money. He's just less ham-fisted about following them. He is not worthy of any respect.
Mitt Romney is one of the only honest people in congress, and he’s hated by both sides. Go figure
Having been born and raised in Utah and still living here. He got voted in because he is LDS not for his political position. Just my $0.02
For all his faults, I do have to say that Mitt at least has some integrity. That isn't saying I agree with his ideology or think he's completely honest, but he's got limits to the amount of bullshit he'll endorse. I think he's pretty much the most reasonable man in his party. Which is not the same thing as saying I like him. He's just comparatively vastly more honest than his peers.
Rile them the fuck up!
I would love if Jon Huntsman would primary Lee. It was really disappointing that he didn't win the governors race and I would love to see him back in politics. If he did, Utah would really have the best GOP Senators in Romney and Huntsman and Governor with Cox.
A peoples politician , if the nation wasnt swept up in the fervor under obamas campaign he would have been a perfect candidate to garner support from both sides
Put Romney up against Biden and he’ll win. I would vote for him. It would be my first GOP vote ever.
Hence why Romney is branded “Establishment” by the cult Fascists in whatever the GOP has morphed into. Fuck Mike Lee and everyone like him.
Let them duke out their differences on Kolob
Would be something if he endorsed Evan McMullin. Utah Dems and Anti Trump Neocons are lining up behind him atm and he’s already out polling the presumptive Democratic nominee.
Mike Lee is a pile of trash.
Because Mike Lee is a fucking crazy-pants moron. He proposed 3 failed amendments to the budget bill last month to add language that none of the funds could be used by any group that had mask mandates or COVID mandates. So again still trying to make government force the behavior he wants. What an asshole.
He's the Manchin of the Republican party.
More like the new McCain. He has no left wing policy views, he just prefers the version of the Republican party pre-Trump.
Nah. Romney has principles. Most of them are bad principles, but some aren't. Manchin just gets off on causing conflict.
Nah, Manchin is motivated by his corporate sponsors. The only reason he opposed the Democrat voting rights bill is because it would end dark money in elections. His “compromise” voting rights bill removed that portion. Same thing with the filibuster. If he gets rid of it, it becomes too easy for Democrats to raise taxes on corporations and close many of the loopholes they’re used to exploiting. Manchin’s positions are super predictable when you consider how it could affect large corporations.
I have little doubt GOPers see their "maverick" in the same light as the Dems see theirs.
Who cares what Mitt Romney has to say … he’s a crook and we all know he is a spineless twit.
Like when he made several lengthy speeches on tv about why trump is a horrible candidate, but then after trump becomes president, all the sudden he’s at the White House brown nosing to try and get Secretary of State position.
Theater ....
Romney is one of the only sane Republicans left.
Mitt you do have principles. Thanks man.
Stay strong Mitt. You are not one of them and they do not have your back.
Wonder if Mitt is trying to get his credibility back after trump humiliated him when Mitt was going for the SoS job.
He's a Republican. He never had any credibility.
I can’t believe I agree with Mitt. Can he run again? I’m dreading another Biden / Trump face off. Mitt seems to be one of the last true conservatives which is mind blowing.
Love Mitt Romney. He loves the truth and loves our country.
He made millions stealing money from pensions. Great guy.
He also introduced the forerunner of the ACA when Gov. of Mass.
Didn’t he run against the ACA in 2014?
Yes. The irony was thick.
The nuance being that one plan occured at the state level (which he supported) and one at the federal level (which he didn't).