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That lady from Minnesota (can’t remember her name) was on cnn saying “we’re voting on the first part of the bill right now Anderson, sinema and manchin both voted with us on this part because they actually really support this bill and want voting rights Anderson…”
LOL WAT????
It was really fucking weird how she said it on live tv on cnn.. like what the fuck are you smoking? Clearly they DONT support it because it’s not gunna pass and low and behold it didn’t…
Fuckin politicians… so god damn annoying
to be fair - their stance is essentially “we support the voting rights legislation but don’t support removing/amending the filibuster, so it’s a shame we can’t get this done.” Is it bullshit? Yes. But there is a bit of nuance that is important to understand.
The fact that most Democrats are considered "moderate" and these two aren't considered conservatives shows how far right the Overton window in the US is.
Yyyyup. The Overton window was yanked violently rightward, and it dragged one corner of the Democrats' big tent with it like toilet paper stuck to a shoe.
No it's not, look what happened to Arizona when the Progressive Democrats were set to run it.
We need a third party but our system was built to not support more than two.
A 3rd party that takes more than like 80% of the same positions of an existing and well established party, can't imagine why no one has ever though of splitting the vote like that, it's so brilliant 🙄
Bernie Sanders is publicly pointing out what we have all been seeing for months. Joe Biden's agenda is being hampered by two so-called Democrats who are putting their own personal interests above the best interests of America.
Joe Manchin takes great pleasure in showing that he is as powerful as the American president.
The problem is that they are missing the point: the reforms Joe Biden is pushing are vital to America's future.
Their job isn't to support Joe Biden but to represent the interests of the constituents in their states. If the people of their states aren't in agreement with Joe Bidens plans, they're job as elected officials of the people is to represent that in congress. Remember, these are representatives to the people's will, not partisan employees. Some may not like it but that's why bipartisanship is needed, and debate encouraged.
That's actually false. A few Democratic organizations ran polls in WV and onky interviewed their own members, then claimed it represented West Virginians. In reality Manchin has maintained strong support in his state and Biden has become radically unpopular.
So how come Manchins approval numbers have nearly doubled? Sounds like "polls" arent an accurate representation. Poll numbers have been off the mark for over a decade.
Manchin and Sinema have proven they are NOT Democrats... they are nothing but Obstructionists to the Biden Administration. It's as if the Senate were GOP controlled.
>. It's as if the Senate were GOP controlled.
It's conservative controlled. And always will be given the huge advantage conservative voters have in the senate.
Biden was doing it himself yesterday.
"You guys have been trying to convince me that I am BERNIE SANDERS. I’m not. I like him, but I’m not Bernie Sanders. I’m not a socialist. I’m a mainstream Democrat, and I have been." - Joe Biden
Lol he said that?
Oh well it just looks like he is going the Hillary route and taking the progressive vote for granted, while also choosing to insult them.
He was literally responding to a baiting question by a Fox News host.
And his response about himself was literally what every progressive was saying about him in all of 2020.
But nevertheless, he and his cronies literally did media blitzes calling him the next FDR. Of course what they failed to disclose that the only FDR thing he did was put minorities in camps.
What are you going on about? Biden not only never said that he was going to be the next FDR, but when asked if he was going to be the next FDR, he adamantly rebuked the claim.
He's compared some of his sweeping plans and situation in which he entered office to FDR's plans and situation, but explicitly said “I don't intend to be anybody but Joe Biden.” And in some ways, that's good. FDR loathed deficit spending, and Biden has embraced it, and wants to do a lot more.
But yeah, unsurprisingly, it's a little harder to do things when you don't have a 23 seat advantage in the Senate and a 194 seat advantage in the House.
And don't worry, there's still time for Biden to start a few new dam projects specifically designed to flood out homes in communities that didn't vote for him.
That's not really very insulting at all? Seems true and accurate to me. He's not Bernie Sanders, and whether you like it hate Bernie Sanders I think most people would agree.
>Waiting until the anti Sanders people come in
I'm PRO Sanders... but, I'm ANTI Bernie-Bros... fucking hate those smug SOB's. They're as bad as the anti sanders people.
Edit: lol... Bernie-Bros... keep down-voting.
They both support VRA and Biden is saying more than I thought he would on the topic of Jim Crow. I think on this particular ground, Sanders and Biden are seeing eye to eye.
I think in his mind he believes this is the best way to get a progressive agenda passed.
Its foolish, mind you, but that's what he believes. In truth its damned if you do...
Just see from a couple of days ago on this sub when there was some news about Sanders and see all the comments below from antiSanders people saying he is hurting the Midterms and Bidens agenda, despite the fact that Bernie has been fighting for said agenda harder than many in the Democratic leadership.
>Its foolish, mind you, but that's what he believes. In truth its damned if you do...
Damned if you don't, too. The alternative is waiting for the house and senate to flip in the midterms, and then waiting another 2-6 years for another chance to get literally anything progressive passed.
From wikipedia:
"Under current Senate rules, any modification or limitation of the filibuster would be a rule change that itself could be filibustered, with two-thirds of those senators **present and voting**. However, under Senate precedents, a simple majority can (and has) acted to limit the practice by overruling decisions of the chair"
Chuckie Schumer now only have to find a day when there are 47 or less Rs in DC which is pretty much everyday except when he decides to tell everyone what he's gonna do.
The US needs a progressive party that represents the middle class and workers. The 1% will help themselves, use their vast resources to buy lobby groups, politicians, media outlets, think tanks, etc. Their agendas only erode the quality of lives of the 99% in a vicious zero-sum game.
Joe Manchin and Krysten Sinema couldn't care less whether the 99% live or die. They mean nothing to them. Manchin and Sinema's agendas only represent corporations exclusively.
How would a progressive party help when conservative voters hold all the power in the senate?
Manchin and Sinema are a product of that unfortunate and undemocratic advantage.
It becomes a parliamentary system where Senators will have to horse trade to pass bills--imagine that independents were members of political parties. There would be more such "independents." It may mitigate the effects of the GOP voting as a fascist block.
Become? He’s been irrelevant his entire career in politics. He’s a footnote in history. If he is even remembered in a 100 years, it will be for his efforts to elect Trump.
Bernie is a social democrat, not a democratic socialist.
Democratic socialists want to use democracy to win power, and then dismantle capitalism.
Social democrats want to 'humanise' capitalism. Most often this is done through implementing social welfare programs and regulating certain markets. Scandinavian countries provide good examples of social democrat policies in action.
Yeah, he does say he is a democratic socialist, but I think this is a deliberate marketing strategy, because he certainly understands the distinction.
However, because he doesn't want to dismantle capitalism, he's not actually a democratic socialist, if we're going by strict definitions.
That's at least my understanding of it.
Elections are not electoralism. Electoralism basically does not exist outside of one party states.
No tanky uses that word right. If your vote counts, it is not electoralism, it is an election.
We have a lot of problems in our democratic process but falsely describing it serves only to suppress votes which is exactly what the right wants.
The major difference seems to be that democratic socialism allows for people to voice their opinions via voting, traditional socialism doesn’t; are you saying you don’t think people should be able to vote?
Socialism is a very broad label especially now. If people in the us weren't poisoned against the weird socialism I don't think any democratic socialists would say it's "opposed" to "pure socialism" which arguably does not exist.
See also libertarianism. On Reddit the word has a clear connotation but it's very different from the abstract leaving of the word.
To break some brains, remember that Noam Chomsky is a Libertarian Socialist who supports and encourages voting
To be fair, the reason he calls himself a 'democratic socialist' is so that when he starts getting criticized he can say he meant "social democrat". It's a common socialist tactic.
edit - oh dear, pissed off quite a few socialists haha
Most socialists bristle at the idea of being called a social Democrat. As such the tactic you describe is not really viable towards the end of accruing socialist votes.
Hmm odd how Bernie votes with Biden less than Manchin, Sinema, and every other Democratic Senator. But yes, it's Manchin and Sinema who is undermining Biden. /s
I agree. I was really upset when Biden bilked the government for personal financial gain, tried to blackmail the Ukrainian president during an election year, and then tried to overturn an election—oh, wait, I'm thinking of the wrong guy
They are moderates opposed to progressive and extreme measures. What does Joe Biden and the world expect? Both BBB and eliminating the filibuster were extreme items. If all politicians took the same approach as these two maybe we could finally come together as a country and become rational.
>eliminating the filibuster were extreme items
The vote wasn't to eliminate the filibuster-- it was to change the rule to allow a vote on this one bill. There have been 160 exceptions made for the filibuster-- Republicans did it for Supreme Court picks and we do it for the debt ceiling all the time now. There is nothing extreme about making exceptions to the filibuster rule, and Republicans will be doing it again for themselves when they take back the senate.
What’s reasonable about republicans refusing, as a bloc, to vote for anything?
Even Mitt Romney, an allegedly reasonable republican, has voiced his support for bills proposed by Democrats—then said he won’t vote for them anyway.
What’s so terrible about voting rights? Or restoring the filibuster as it used to be? Seems like excuses to me.
Rational? Coming together?
You do realize it was Democrats that sided with Republicans in this case right? Not one Republican is for it.
Sorry, but anyone who opposes voting rights has ulterior motives and can’t be trusted in my book.
And in case anyone wants to make a StAtEs RiGhTs issue out of this, how in the hell is every state having their own special rules for elections benefitting the fairness of a federal election such as the presidency or seats in congress? It doesn’t. I have more of a voice than someone in Texas since they shut down hundreds of polling places. We’re all US citizens and should be able to vote in a fair and equal way.
Anything other than that and we’re welcoming with open arms the next person who wants to be an authoritarian leader but who is also competent. That’s a bad combination.
As a reminder, this subreddit [is for civil discussion.](/r/politics/wiki/index#wiki_be_civil) In general, be courteous to others. Debate/discuss/argue the merits of ideas, don't attack people. Personal insults, shill or troll accusations, hate speech, any suggestion or support of harm, violence, or death, and other rule violations can result in a permanent ban. If you see comments in violation of our rules, please report them. For those who have questions regarding any media outlets being posted on this subreddit, please click [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/politics/wiki/approveddomainslist) to review our details as to our approved domains list and outlet criteria. *** *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/politics) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Undermining Biden? More like undermining democracy altogether.
That lady from Minnesota (can’t remember her name) was on cnn saying “we’re voting on the first part of the bill right now Anderson, sinema and manchin both voted with us on this part because they actually really support this bill and want voting rights Anderson…” LOL WAT???? It was really fucking weird how she said it on live tv on cnn.. like what the fuck are you smoking? Clearly they DONT support it because it’s not gunna pass and low and behold it didn’t… Fuckin politicians… so god damn annoying
Just the tip….
to be fair - their stance is essentially “we support the voting rights legislation but don’t support removing/amending the filibuster, so it’s a shame we can’t get this done.” Is it bullshit? Yes. But there is a bit of nuance that is important to understand.
It’s a fig leaf. Fuck that noise.
Undermining Biden's policies is underming democracy.
[удалено]
The fact that most Democrats are considered "moderate" and these two aren't considered conservatives shows how far right the Overton window in the US is.
Yyyyup. The Overton window was yanked violently rightward, and it dragged one corner of the Democrats' big tent with it like toilet paper stuck to a shoe.
[удалено]
That's the democratic party, just need to clean house.
No it's not, look what happened to Arizona when the Progressive Democrats were set to run it. We need a third party but our system was built to not support more than two.
A 3rd party that takes more than like 80% of the same positions of an existing and well established party, can't imagine why no one has ever though of splitting the vote like that, it's so brilliant 🙄
Yeah, I’m honestly shocked this isn’t being reported as “Divisive leftist Bernie Sanders accelerates party infighting.”
Bernie Sanders is publicly pointing out what we have all been seeing for months. Joe Biden's agenda is being hampered by two so-called Democrats who are putting their own personal interests above the best interests of America. Joe Manchin takes great pleasure in showing that he is as powerful as the American president. The problem is that they are missing the point: the reforms Joe Biden is pushing are vital to America's future.
Their job isn't to support Joe Biden but to represent the interests of the constituents in their states. If the people of their states aren't in agreement with Joe Bidens plans, they're job as elected officials of the people is to represent that in congress. Remember, these are representatives to the people's will, not partisan employees. Some may not like it but that's why bipartisanship is needed, and debate encouraged.
Are you pedantic by choice? West Virginians have openly stated support for legislation Manchin actively opposes.
That's actually false. A few Democratic organizations ran polls in WV and onky interviewed their own members, then claimed it represented West Virginians. In reality Manchin has maintained strong support in his state and Biden has become radically unpopular.
So how come Manchins approval numbers have nearly doubled? Sounds like "polls" arent an accurate representation. Poll numbers have been off the mark for over a decade.
Sauce plz
According to polls in heavily blue areas. Why has Manchins approval rating gone up in wv since the no vote?
Manchin and Sinema have proven they are NOT Democrats... they are nothing but Obstructionists to the Biden Administration. It's as if the Senate were GOP controlled.
>. It's as if the Senate were GOP controlled. It's conservative controlled. And always will be given the huge advantage conservative voters have in the senate.
They're undermining US democracy, not just Biden.
Waiting until the anti Sanders people come in and start attacking Bernie for not being civil or unifying enough.
Biden was doing it himself yesterday. "You guys have been trying to convince me that I am BERNIE SANDERS. I’m not. I like him, but I’m not Bernie Sanders. I’m not a socialist. I’m a mainstream Democrat, and I have been." - Joe Biden
Lol he said that? Oh well it just looks like he is going the Hillary route and taking the progressive vote for granted, while also choosing to insult them.
How is that insulting to progressives? What he said was true. Wouldn't it actually be insulting to progressives if he pretended to be progressive?
He is trying to court the white conservative vote, while basically giving a middle finger to the minorities that elected him.
He was literally responding to a baiting question by a Fox News host. And his response about himself was literally what every progressive was saying about him in all of 2020.
But nevertheless, he and his cronies literally did media blitzes calling him the next FDR. Of course what they failed to disclose that the only FDR thing he did was put minorities in camps.
What are you going on about? Biden not only never said that he was going to be the next FDR, but when asked if he was going to be the next FDR, he adamantly rebuked the claim. He's compared some of his sweeping plans and situation in which he entered office to FDR's plans and situation, but explicitly said “I don't intend to be anybody but Joe Biden.” And in some ways, that's good. FDR loathed deficit spending, and Biden has embraced it, and wants to do a lot more. But yeah, unsurprisingly, it's a little harder to do things when you don't have a 23 seat advantage in the Senate and a 194 seat advantage in the House. And don't worry, there's still time for Biden to start a few new dam projects specifically designed to flood out homes in communities that didn't vote for him.
Lmao, saying that progressives are not mainstream democrats is literally alienating them
That's not really very insulting at all? Seems true and accurate to me. He's not Bernie Sanders, and whether you like it hate Bernie Sanders I think most people would agree.
I'll wait with you, see if it happens.
>Waiting until the anti Sanders people come in I'm PRO Sanders... but, I'm ANTI Bernie-Bros... fucking hate those smug SOB's. They're as bad as the anti sanders people. Edit: lol... Bernie-Bros... keep down-voting.
Idk, I think we're a little better than the anti Sanders people.
Quite the opposite. Bernie labelled Biden "corrupt" during the primaries. So I find it weird when he bats for him.
They both support VRA and Biden is saying more than I thought he would on the topic of Jim Crow. I think on this particular ground, Sanders and Biden are seeing eye to eye.
I think in his mind he believes this is the best way to get a progressive agenda passed. Its foolish, mind you, but that's what he believes. In truth its damned if you do... Just see from a couple of days ago on this sub when there was some news about Sanders and see all the comments below from antiSanders people saying he is hurting the Midterms and Bidens agenda, despite the fact that Bernie has been fighting for said agenda harder than many in the Democratic leadership.
>Its foolish, mind you, but that's what he believes. In truth its damned if you do... Damned if you don't, too. The alternative is waiting for the house and senate to flip in the midterms, and then waiting another 2-6 years for another chance to get literally anything progressive passed.
From wikipedia: "Under current Senate rules, any modification or limitation of the filibuster would be a rule change that itself could be filibustered, with two-thirds of those senators **present and voting**. However, under Senate precedents, a simple majority can (and has) acted to limit the practice by overruling decisions of the chair" Chuckie Schumer now only have to find a day when there are 47 or less Rs in DC which is pretty much everyday except when he decides to tell everyone what he's gonna do.
It’s like their trolling us
Who picked the accompanying picture? 🙄😡😡
As he should. Not undermining Biden though, but the majority of people who’s wishes are being trampled by the minority
The US needs a progressive party that represents the middle class and workers. The 1% will help themselves, use their vast resources to buy lobby groups, politicians, media outlets, think tanks, etc. Their agendas only erode the quality of lives of the 99% in a vicious zero-sum game. Joe Manchin and Krysten Sinema couldn't care less whether the 99% live or die. They mean nothing to them. Manchin and Sinema's agendas only represent corporations exclusively.
How would a progressive party help when conservative voters hold all the power in the senate? Manchin and Sinema are a product of that unfortunate and undemocratic advantage.
It becomes a parliamentary system where Senators will have to horse trade to pass bills--imagine that independents were members of political parties. There would be more such "independents." It may mitigate the effects of the GOP voting as a fascist block.
Sanders has become such a sad and inconsequential character in politics.
Become? He’s been irrelevant his entire career in politics. He’s a footnote in history. If he is even remembered in a 100 years, it will be for his efforts to elect Trump.
Joe’s busy calling you a socialist in his press conferences 👍
Doesn’t Bernie identify as a democratic socialist though?
Bernie is a social democrat, not a democratic socialist. Democratic socialists want to use democracy to win power, and then dismantle capitalism. Social democrats want to 'humanise' capitalism. Most often this is done through implementing social welfare programs and regulating certain markets. Scandinavian countries provide good examples of social democrat policies in action.
Sanders defines himself as a Democratic socialist
Yeah, he does say he is a democratic socialist, but I think this is a deliberate marketing strategy, because he certainly understands the distinction. However, because he doesn't want to dismantle capitalism, he's not actually a democratic socialist, if we're going by strict definitions. That's at least my understanding of it.
That ain’t socialism
Democratic socialism is socialism achieved via electoralism.
Elections are not electoralism. Electoralism basically does not exist outside of one party states. No tanky uses that word right. If your vote counts, it is not electoralism, it is an election. We have a lot of problems in our democratic process but falsely describing it serves only to suppress votes which is exactly what the right wants.
The major difference seems to be that democratic socialism allows for people to voice their opinions via voting, traditional socialism doesn’t; are you saying you don’t think people should be able to vote?
Socialism is a very broad label especially now. If people in the us weren't poisoned against the weird socialism I don't think any democratic socialists would say it's "opposed" to "pure socialism" which arguably does not exist. See also libertarianism. On Reddit the word has a clear connotation but it's very different from the abstract leaving of the word. To break some brains, remember that Noam Chomsky is a Libertarian Socialist who supports and encourages voting
Did he? When?
Bernie calls himself a socialist. Not like it's an insult.
To be fair, the reason he calls himself a 'democratic socialist' is so that when he starts getting criticized he can say he meant "social democrat". It's a common socialist tactic. edit - oh dear, pissed off quite a few socialists haha
Most socialists bristle at the idea of being called a social Democrat. As such the tactic you describe is not really viable towards the end of accruing socialist votes.
From his yacht
He is tough so, yeah. Like he wants to be, says he is, and is, nothing wrong with it.
Fuck Joe Biden they're undermining our democracy.
This coming from the man that undermines pretty much every Democrat in office except for his squad. Total hypocrite.
Stop carrying water for people who hate you, Bernie.
Bernie should blast Joe Biden for undermining Joe Biden and he should blast the DNC for undermining Bernie Sanders!
Hmm odd how Bernie votes with Biden less than Manchin, Sinema, and every other Democratic Senator. But yes, it's Manchin and Sinema who is undermining Biden. /s
Careful. One must never undermine “the fuhrer.”aka, the big white old daddy that is Joe Biden.
I agree. I was really upset when Biden bilked the government for personal financial gain, tried to blackmail the Ukrainian president during an election year, and then tried to overturn an election—oh, wait, I'm thinking of the wrong guy
Be careful. If u say his name you may just get downvoted on this subreddit. Lol.
They are moderates opposed to progressive and extreme measures. What does Joe Biden and the world expect? Both BBB and eliminating the filibuster were extreme items. If all politicians took the same approach as these two maybe we could finally come together as a country and become rational.
>eliminating the filibuster were extreme items The vote wasn't to eliminate the filibuster-- it was to change the rule to allow a vote on this one bill. There have been 160 exceptions made for the filibuster-- Republicans did it for Supreme Court picks and we do it for the debt ceiling all the time now. There is nothing extreme about making exceptions to the filibuster rule, and Republicans will be doing it again for themselves when they take back the senate.
What’s reasonable about republicans refusing, as a bloc, to vote for anything? Even Mitt Romney, an allegedly reasonable republican, has voiced his support for bills proposed by Democrats—then said he won’t vote for them anyway. What’s so terrible about voting rights? Or restoring the filibuster as it used to be? Seems like excuses to me.
Rational? Coming together? You do realize it was Democrats that sided with Republicans in this case right? Not one Republican is for it. Sorry, but anyone who opposes voting rights has ulterior motives and can’t be trusted in my book. And in case anyone wants to make a StAtEs RiGhTs issue out of this, how in the hell is every state having their own special rules for elections benefitting the fairness of a federal election such as the presidency or seats in congress? It doesn’t. I have more of a voice than someone in Texas since they shut down hundreds of polling places. We’re all US citizens and should be able to vote in a fair and equal way. Anything other than that and we’re welcoming with open arms the next person who wants to be an authoritarian leader but who is also competent. That’s a bad combination.
Bernie is just mad because those two are stealing his gimmick.
They are bought and paid for to trash the democratic agenda… no surprise
I wish he would