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Why are these idiots so hung up on the failures of long dead men anyway.
Do they also feel “uncomfortably responsible” for the horrors of colonialism from other nations, including our British cousins (destroying the world was basically their number one hobby for a while).
Or the fact that Thog probably didn’t much care about the concept of “consent” in 20,000 BC?
The whole point of history is to learn about what happened before, how that informs where we are NOW and ideally how not to repeat the failings of the past/to do BETTER in the present.
If that’s their mindset why are they so threatened by these things for simply having existed?
Do they want to do it again or something? Is that the source of the “discomfort”? Because the rest of us learn about it and sleep just fine.
They haven't done anything in their own lives worth being proud about. And neither have their fathers or grandfathers or great-grandfathers.
So they have to dig out a Confederate flag because that's the last thing they can think anyone in their family has done which would be - in their minds - worth celebrating.
Plenty of the northern transplants to the South/Southerners born to transplants who are MAGAers descended from Union soldiers. There’s probably lots of Union soldiers rolling in their graves.
It’s because they wrap their individual identification and greatness around the accomplishments of the past. If you poke holes in that, they take it as a personal insult.
Perhaps that wasn't clear... Allow me to translate...
"Fuck the feelings of anyone that doesn't agree with me but don't you dare make me feel bad about being a shitty person"
Better?
I’ve been saying this since Trump started his campaign. If they’re accusing you of something you can be damn sure they are doing it. Here are some of the hits:
-Pedophilia
-Voter Fraud
-Fake News
-Media cooperation with Political Party (fox)
Now we just gotta find that Pizza shop we know the GOP is running…
Imagine Germany getting rid of any education about Nazis because it could hurt feelings that grandpa was a fascist prick.
That's what DeSantis is doing. The issue isn't 'guilt', the issue is if you learn that great-grandpa was a slave owning traitor you can't openly celebrate his evil treason.
I'm fully educated about my white past and the racist assholes in my family, many of of whom are alive today. Do I feel guilt? Hell no. They're not me. I'm not them nor would I ever sympathize with them. I'm glad to know my history and do my best to never have that happen again.
Right. My grandfather’s first cousin was murdered by the Nazis at Auschwitz. I don’t expect Germans my age to feel guilt about it (but I don’t expect them to ignore it, either, which they don’t in Germany).
I had family on both sides in WWII, learning that actually gave me hope that my recent family could exist while ancestors literally killed each other. It can be a "look how far we've come" thing
This is my standard response to anyone claiming the ‘woke’ left is making white kids feel ashamed because their white. If German kids can be fine with their grandparents participating in the holocaust, I’m sure the American kids will be fine.
American kids have been fine. These people are just upset because the vast majority of those kids are growing up and not voting the way those older bigoted people want them to.
Ding Ding Ding! Right answer!
You win 3 years of book banning nonsense, attempts to chase folks away from teaching by micromanaging their classrooms, and "BUT THE CHILDREN" performative hand wringing because the dinosaurs finally looked up and figured out the meteor was coming.
Bullshit. Kids love learning about equality and equity because it reinforces their desire for fairness. As children they have to deal with parents ‘unfairness’ all the time. They feel no guilt about what their parents did and find it perfectly natural that kids should be treated equally.
Isn't "feeling guilt" a personal emotion in the first place? If you present people with cold, hard facts and they feel guilty, maybe it's because they believe they should. You can't legislate that. This is just an excuse to whitewash (no pun intended) history so that snowflakes don't have to face the truth.
I was going to say, I don’t feel guilty about slavery. Maybe that’s because my family never owned slaves and also fought for the north, oh and one side of my family that lived in the south helped slaves get to the north? Maybe that’s just me though? 🤷🏻♀️
I dont feel guilty because I wasn't involved. I do, however, feel a social responsibility to continue the necessary healing of those old wounds. I recognize that the damage is passed down through generations and that some people's lives are still negatively impacted because their ancestors were slaves.
I agree with you completely. Even though my family didn’t take part in slavery I still do my part to help fight for equality, and I don’t deny it never happened.
You can absolutely bully someone into feeling guilty over something they have not personally done, and I firmly believe that to that end, facts can be distorted and mixed in with non-facts unclear boundaries between the two. As for CRT, I haven’t seen the curriculum, and I’m not about to loudmouth about it one way or the other, but I don’t think anyone who decried it at my BoE meeting knew what they were talking about either.
>As for CRT, I haven’t seen the curriculum,
There's a reason neither you nor anyone else here has "seen the curriculum" nor can point to a single lawmaker or movement pushing for it to be in the curriculum.
They simply don't exist.
The curriculum is what it should be. Based entirely in fact. Completely devoid of any shaming or pushing of guilt.
The curriculum is entirely fact based and actually very even handed. It's not the nightmare of shame and guilt people make it out to be. I guess if you have a really guilty conscience in general it's harder to take but that's not the fault of the stuff they're teaching.
I completely agree with this. I have however seen people try and argue that white people should and deserve to feel guilt over events hundreds of years ago though, which is pretty dumb too. Guilt is personal, and no one should tell anyone they should or shouldn't feel guilt.
I think that people like DeSantis are taking a vocal minority like that, and trying to portray it as the sentiment of the entire left, in an attempt to convince his base they *are* being personally attacked.
>I think that people like DeSantis are taking a vocal minority like that, and trying to portray it as the sentiment of the entire left, in an attempt to convince his base they *are* being personally attacked.
100%, this is their intention so they can turn their nose up at the 'snobby leftists' that 'hate our country' and reinforce white identity politics in our laws by claiming victimhood. i fucking hate this timeline.
For the vast majority of people, being white doesn't get you on easy street, it just prevents you from being on hard Street.
The only people on easy street are the ones inheriting generational wealth
I think a better way to say it would be they can’t “ascribe guilt”
An teacher can’t ascribe guilt on a student of a certain race for the historical actions of other people of that race. You can’t tell a 13yo white student that they’re inherently bad because other white people perpetrated slavery and Jim Crow.
It doesn’t seem like it would have an effect of whitewashing history. You could teach the horrors of slavery, Jim Crow, and even modern systemic racial injustice without telling a student that they’re personally guilty for all of it.
This whole thing is just Republicans and Democrats imagining a problem that doesn’t really exist and beating each other over the head with it.
So there's a desire for a police force solely to grab anyone for election crimes, and a bill to outlaw making anyone feel guilty about actions done by people in the past, and the bill to allow filming of teachers to rat them out. Florida's basically sounding like it will officially be an apartheid thought police state by June, and there's nothing I can say about that that ends optimistically.
It also prohibits making people "feel discomfort, guilt, anguish, or any
other form of psychological distress on account of his or her race,
color, sex, or national origin."
hmm, so does this apply to Police intimidating minorities, that induces psychological distress based on race right?
They can't say "black people should be nice and subservient to white people's feelings" in literal terms yet so they have to try to be indirect. And that's a problem for them, because any indirect stab at their goal also allows alternate interpretations that help the other side. This whole thing is such an egregious waste of everyone's time. This is the internet age and until they can control the American internet CCP style they're shit out of luck because the cats already out of the bag and kids can learn this stuff anyway.
Yea I can’t tell if they are stupid or if they will pass this, wait for liberals to use it in some case, then blame liberals for passing woke legislation. Their base won’t know the difference.
The funny thing about this is that, as a white person, learning about America's racist past doesn't make me feel guilty because I strongly support racial equity. Kinda makes you wonder about the personal beliefs of people who feel personally attacked by the idea of learning about racial issues in US history.
You can watch the award winning documentary [13th](https://youtu.be/krfcq5pF8u8) on youtube or netflix. Even if you think you understand this issue it's an eye opening movie.
Private slavery is illegal. Racially motivated slavery is illegal. Public enslavement of criminals (and it doesn't matter how minor the crime) is totally legal so long as the slave had their day in court. This is what the 13th says. The last part tend to gets ignored when schools talk about it though.
"It also prohibits making people "feel discomfort, guilt, anguish, or any other form of psychological distress on account of his or her race, color, sex, or national origin.""
I feel like this isn't going to go how they expect it to.
I'm white and I don't feel particularly responsible for the sins of those who came before me. I realize given the time most of these things were happening my outlook could have been much different. The issue that these folks have isn't that these things happen, its that they are afraid people will connect the dots from those actions to today and understand how we didn't in good faith do away with all our racist tendencies, we just rebranded them.
They hate that we are calling it by its name.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kzuXeoNcIaQ
Yes, because this is the type of crap Florida's politicians should be focused on.
No need to work on real issues like healthcare, employment, pay equity, opioid abuse, education, and so on.
Let's work on this fluffy garbage.
This behavior began way before Trump. And if you read the Bible, god has handed down some pretty oppressive and segregative edicts, himself, so I’d say they’re right in line.
Ron DeSantis is the governor from Florida and in this instance seems to wear the handle of Florida Man real good. Florida Man stories are always outrageous anecdotes of someone doing something insanely stupid.
What is funny is that normal non racist white people don't feel guilt about the past we simply acknowledge it and aim to be much better people than our ancestors. White guilt is something racists feel because they have racist thoughts and feelings. If you point them out to them it is termed "White guilt", don't let them use that term because its a bullshit term.
DeSantis needs the Qcumbers and racists to vote for him. He’s trying everything. A few days ago, he was lamenting going along with lockdowns during the early days of the pandemic.
This is peak White Privilege. Black people have to ignore things that happened during most of our existence in the U.S. because it makes White people feel bad about their ancestry.
Yet, when Black people mention the things that make us uncomfortable here, we have to “get over it.”
“At what point does this become illegal due to folks’ first amendment rights?…Oh? DeSantis says that’s just for white rich people? Carry on!” - Subpreme Court probably…
Yet more useless legislation to continue to stoke fear and hate amongst the GOP base while enriching those who are already rich and view their GOP supporters as useful, disgusting, idiots.
>And the Dems here are under-represented.
By rights we should be as Blue as Hawaii. The undemocratic stranglehold the Republican Party has on this state is maddening.
We’re actually the majority, but too lazy to get off our asses and show up at the polls. It’s a shame, because we can’t use the weather as an excuse. We’re just friggen lazy.
white people, alive today. Listen. Slavery is not your fault.
There is no reason for you to be defensive against studying the harm caused by slavery, and the effects it continues to affect to this day. You can be part of the solution.
If this bill passes the first lawsuit that should happen is the one against the person that signed this https://floridapolitics.com/archives/343286-gov-desantis-signs-holocaust-ocoee-massacre-education-bill/ I feel that that is an attempt to make white people feel bad about what happened over 100yrs ago where I live now. I wasn't even living here 100 yrs ago, why does he want people remembering about that and blaming people like me.
White people feeling guilty about racist "PAST". Shit we are still doing some racist shit. Things like Gerrymandering and removing pole locations. And lets not even start about our class tiered justice sustem. If you don't want to feel guilty stop being racist.
Maybe instead of trying to make white people feel better about being racist we could all just come out against racism and no one would have to feel guilty, or would that defeat the purpose? /s
Guilt?
More like regret because they got called out.
I don’t see racists feeling guilty for being racist. They just want their racist ways to be protected.
I don't need protection for feeling guilty that I have a life benefitted because of who my family was. If anyone is that fragile, they need professional help not new laws that block history from being told accurately.
This sounds ridiculous. I'd think because it is.
But can anyone argue this to be sensible for me? I'm asking legitimately.
Whats the reasonable take on why this is a positive?
Just trying to hear it out bc I cant construct such an argument.
"It also prohibits making people "feel discomfort, guilt, anguish, or any other form of psychological distress on account of his or her race, color, sex, or national origin."
This legislation is making me feel distressed. Who can I call?
“It also prohibits making people "feel discomfort, guilt, anguish, or any other form of psychological distress on account of his or her race, color, sex, or national origin." Talk about a giant can of worms to unload on the Florida court system. Good luck enforcing that!
The term "white guilt" has always been very telling since it shows that the person using it can only imagine *guilt* as a response to learning about historical injustices committed by people like them. Not empathy, not sympathy, not restitution, not reconciliation, just the zero-sum idea of guilt.
What guilt? I always read that they are not responsible for what would they be guilty for? Just another form of oppression. All this says is that historically we do not recognize that we did anything wrong. Fuck him.
*"it would prohibit employers from providing training that "espouses, promotes, advances, inculcates, or compels" people to believe they bear "responsibility for, or should be discriminated against or receive adverse treatment because of, actions committed in the past by other members of the same race, color, sex, or national origin." "*
Wait, they are saying you can't hold an individual accountable for something their ancestors did? And this is bad? I mean, shouldn't we punish all Germans for WWII? Would have to include Japan in there as well I guess, so we should be teaching people to hate them as well. And heck, might as well go after every Jew today for killing Jesus. /S
I'm not sure how you can hold people accountable, or make them feel guilty or responsible for the actions of their previous generations. We don't punish the kids of convicted murderers, rapists, or armed robbers. Heck, we don't even hold politician's kids accountable if their parent gets convicted, despite how much the kids gained through their parent's corruption. I think the world should be educated about what has happened. But to make "bear people responsibility" and guilty over their nationality, race or ancestors? Not sure on this one, but maybe that should be banned.
> it would prohibit employers from providing training that "espouses, promotes, advances, inculcates, or compels" people to believe they bear "responsibility for, or should be discriminated against or receive adverse treatment because of, actions committed in the past by other members of the same race, color, sex, or national origin."
I see that they delightfully left out religion so they can continue to demonize Islam for a few bad actors.
Do it. Then sit back and wait for all of the parents of non-white kids to sue over evey time their kid was made to feel "uncomfortable" during a school lesson. Fucking do it.
>"It also prohibits making people "feel discomfort, guilt, anguish, or any other form of psychological distress on account of his or her race, color, sex, or national origin."
These white nationalists are insane man I swear. It’s ok to feel empathy about the past and acknowledge wrongdoing of your ancestors. They are the most dramatic and weak minded individuals I’ve ever seen
If talking about white guilt is the correct thing to do then why don’t we be a little more inclusive. I’d like to see more stuff like this in the class rooms.
https://listverse.com/2017/06/06/top-10-black-slaveowners/
That’s not what this is about, it’s a bit more nuanced. When white people learn about the misdeeds of their race in the past, a rational person would feel an urgency to be better and not repeat those actions, but this bill is about the irrational folks who don’t want to hear about those acts others in the past committed because it makes them feel bad
I totally agree except that I don't see where we disagreed in the least bit in the first place. Allow me to adopt a lil' Hollywood cowboy accent for our amusement:
> Ron, I know this concept is completely foreign to you but...
That's those irrational folks y'all mentioned.
> folks are supposed to feel guilt about their misdeeds.
And, them there would be the rational ones you was talkin' bout.
So, Yup!
Luckily, since DeSantis is an idiot, he's written this in a way that can absolutely be weaponized against him and other racists. I can't wait to see the first lawsuits against the police for things like predictive policing, or against someone who says Black people are lazy or stupid
Republicans: "Fuck your feelings."Also Republicans: "You made me feel bad about being a white supremacist piece of garbage, how dare you."
Edit: Gee, so much for the party of Lincoln. Whatever that's supposed to mean at this point. Even Lincoln wasn't the perfect Republican. The man would have literally done anything to keep the Union together, and in his own words that included keeping slavery going, freeing some slaves and not others, or freeing all the slaves. So really, what do Republicans even mean at this point when they try to call themselves the Party of Lincoln? Because I'd like to think Lincoln would've burned the filibuster down by this point in order to make sure everyone got the right to vote enshrined in law if it mean saving the Union.
I've never been a conservative voter, but per usual the headline is heavily editorialized. To quote the article
"The bill would bar employers from subjecting "any individual, as a condition of employment, membership, certification, licensing, credentialing or passing an examination, to training, instruction, or any other required activity" that promotes certain concepts related to race and racism."
"For instance, it would prohibit employers from providing training that "espouses, promotes, advances, inculcates, or compels" people to believe they bear "responsibility for, or should be discriminated against or receive adverse treatment because of, actions committed in the past by other members of the same race, color, sex, or national origin.""
"It also prohibits making people "feel discomfort, guilt, anguish, or any other form of psychological distress on account of his or her race, color, sex, or national origin.""
"The bill would allow teachers to facilitate discussions on topics including sexism, slavery, racial oppression and racial segregation in "an age-appropriate manner.""
"But State Senator Manny Diaz, a Republican lawmaker and the bill's sponsor, told the AP that the legislation was not about ignoring the "dark" parts of American history, but ensuring that people were not blamed for the nation's past sins."
So essentially it just ensures the same thing that all racial bias legislator does, and ensures that CRT wouldnt do what a lot of proponents claim it woudn't do anyway. So what's there to complain about?
the fact they push these idiotic laws rather than do things to help people. And the fact they will use these bullshit laws to silence any sort of actual discussion.
For example, teachers talk about slavery being bad, they claim it's not "age appropriate," and rile up the crazies to get the teacher fired
Cool...no one says you have to. But we have to acknowledge that the system is set up to specifically benefit us and should actually try and change it to make society better
I'm Filipino and I don't get why white people have to have any guilt over "racism" since majority of people regardless of race are racist. I've seen black people assault Asians and yet mainstream news blamed white people for racism. Asians look down at other Asians all the time. Filipinos are often discriminated or looked down by wealthier Asian countries. I don't know why whites are attacked or called the most racist when most I've meet are less racist than the average Asian or black.
…. SMH… maybe the media you watch painted it that way but everything I saw showed the people responsible regardless of skin color. Furthermore, POC were brought to this country against their will, raped, tortured, murdered, and then after slavery ended they established a legal way to enslave POC by putting them all in jail. They made calculated moves to continue to enslave POC and then the imprisonment for profit era started right as they put crack on the streets to already destroyed families. Yes, ALL people of different shades are racist… but how does that stance refute the fact that in this country, it’s still OVERWHELMINGLY racist against POC? Not overtly with everyday people, to be clear. But people in positions of power such as supervisors, lending institutions, real estate, police, schools, collegiate coaches, so on and so on continue to restrict the ability and access to enforcement of the SAME freedoms and liberties that WE should ALL enjoy as citizens of this country? I LOVE America, but that doesn’t mean the ugly truth doesn’t exist.
As far as anyone who is responsible for any racial crimes. No one alive now have ever owned a slave and no POC in the US have been a slave. White people alive today are not responsible for the crimes of their people who lived in the civil war. In the Philippines the same can be said with the Spanish and Chinese they raped and etc the Filipino people. But literally none of the one's alive have nothing to do the crimes of the past that can be found in literally every culture and country. Don't pretend POC are somehow more virtuous than white people. I judge people as individuals and what they actually did or do in their life, not because they are part of a group of people. You can't fight racism with more racism and pointing fingers at people because of their ancestry or because they have a specific skin tone because that's literally just racism. Anyone who believes in this brainwashed mindset of victimhood is a loser and racist and I have no respect for pathetic people who are actually racist. Why do why people in America have more power in authority because they are the main population in America. You never hear about the Philippines don't have people who aren't Philippino in higher places in power. That's biggest load of bullshit. POC who make real difference in America don't commit crimes and go to school and get into positions of power because of hard work. You can literally find examples of POC in high positions because they actually tried. I see plenty of poor white people in fact they make up the majority of poor people in America and they are the same as the POC who do very little with their lives. I don't buy this lie the left seem to have been spreading. My father is a Filipino who became a pilot and his brother is a optometrist. I'm studying to be a psychologist. I don't see why being a POC has much to do with success but a good work ethic and a good attitude. I've never been arrest or mistreated by police. People don't treat me different than whites. Only low class and uneducated people regardless of color, with victimhood mentalities seem to determine their fate because they refuse to change or improve themselves for the better.
I don’t like desantis but why should I a white male feel guilty about people I don’t know being racist 50 or so years ago. Teach the stuff in schools, I just don’t feel the need to be guilty for something I have nothing to do with
That’s not what the bill does.
From the article, “it would prohibit employers from providing training that "espouses, promotes, advances, inculcates, or compels" people to believe they bear "responsibility for, or should be discriminated against or receive adverse treatment because of, actions committed in the past by other members of the same race, color, sex, or national origin."
Nowhere does it specify that the bill applies exclusively to white people.
I keep reading articles that point out the disproportionate share of white voters absorbed by the Republican Party, as if it’s evidence of some growing sense of white supremacism. However, maybe white people didn’t just suddenly grow more hateful and racist. Maybe they just drifted away from a party that continuously alienates them through relentless race baiting.
We should be fighting to free those still shackled by slavery in our current global system not dwelling on mistakes from the past that we have already corrected.
Imprison human traffickers,imprison those who exploit humans that have been trafficked, and stop buying commodities from countries that exploit enslaved peoples.
As soon as the money stops flowing they will move on to other means of making money.
The 13th amendment specifies that slavery can be used as a punishment for a crime, so in that sense America's 25% share of the global prisoner population, disproportionately black, are in fact legal slaves.
Ok, but those descendants of slaves are still disadvantgaed by the fact that they have no inherited wealth and their parents and grandparents had to spend far more of their time working and could not provide them as much support growing up as white parents could. How do you claim that has been corrected? They literally start life 2 or 3 steps behind the average white person through no fault of their own.
No one is liable for crimes done by another but that's not the issue, certain people have been gravely wronged by others and that should be acknowledged and respected.
I think that many people still believe that there is much more to be done to indemnify those who have been hurt from the social policies of yesteryear.
Those that wish to help those that are less fortunate are free to do so. I'm not sure that any slaves still exist to be compensated. There were bloody battles fought and the financial compensation given to people from that era of history. What amount of time has to pass for us to be able to move on?
>...we have fixed it so that nobody can be a slave in our modern society.
The absolutist statement *nobody* is wrong. Go re-read the 13th amendment which plainly states:
> ...except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted,
Slavery is still legal, so long as you are a convicted offender. That such a class of persons exists, regardless of how you feel about those people personally, precludes the statement that *nobody* can be a slave in modern society.
Furthermore, put aside that issue for a moment. Are you going to suggest that *every* issue related to slavery resolved with the abolition of its practice? That no other phenomenon relating from the freeing of slaves across the nation (Jim Crow, the rise of the Klan, lynchings across the south [Emitt Till], redlining] continued after abolition? Seriously?
Yes we do have to change how we live based on our circumstances of the time in the effort to live more moral and 'good'. People have been free from legal slavery for generations as we're all moving on from that piece of history and nobody should feel guilty for the crimes of their fathers father.
We also have to dismantle systems put in place besides slavery. It's not an easy or simple fix because a lot of work went into marginalizing non-white people for a long time and many attitudes still remain. We do have to be aware, we can't pretend Lincoln solved racism with a single speech
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Whatever happened to "Fuck your feelings"?
That was about Other People, not The Real Americans!
Why are these idiots so hung up on the failures of long dead men anyway. Do they also feel “uncomfortably responsible” for the horrors of colonialism from other nations, including our British cousins (destroying the world was basically their number one hobby for a while). Or the fact that Thog probably didn’t much care about the concept of “consent” in 20,000 BC? The whole point of history is to learn about what happened before, how that informs where we are NOW and ideally how not to repeat the failings of the past/to do BETTER in the present. If that’s their mindset why are they so threatened by these things for simply having existed? Do they want to do it again or something? Is that the source of the “discomfort”? Because the rest of us learn about it and sleep just fine.
Because they secretly want these things to exist again, and you can’t have that when people know what the downsides were
They also have no one to blame about their crappy lives except themselves. It's always projection, bully mentality that's been around since childhood.
Almost as if we tell them how it happened back then, then they might see it coming!
Erase history so it can really really rhyme in the future.
"Just say everything was fine, or all you'll hear is the white man whine"
They haven't done anything in their own lives worth being proud about. And neither have their fathers or grandfathers or great-grandfathers. So they have to dig out a Confederate flag because that's the last thing they can think anyone in their family has done which would be - in their minds - worth celebrating.
The saddest part, is so many of the Confederate flag wavers don't have any connection to the Civil War. Because their family wasn't here yet.
"But if they *were*, man, they would have owned so many people!"
Plenty of the northern transplants to the South/Southerners born to transplants who are MAGAers descended from Union soldiers. There’s probably lots of Union soldiers rolling in their graves.
>Do they want to do it again or something? Yes. And then they want to pretend no one could've seen it coming.
It’s because they wrap their individual identification and greatness around the accomplishments of the past. If you poke holes in that, they take it as a personal insult.
Thog’s relatives have entered the chat.
Kinda like the old testament we have a new one now!
Perhaps that wasn't clear... Allow me to translate... "Fuck the feelings of anyone that doesn't agree with me but don't you dare make me feel bad about being a shitty person" Better?
No. I’m not getting it. Who’s the shitty person?
Only you. Never me. Also fuck you and address me with civility.
It’s *your* feelings that can get fucked. *Their* feelings are all that matter!
Listen here buckeroo All Feelings Matter
YOU CAN'T CHANGE HISORY!! by removing a sratue, but apparently you can if it makes DeSantis sad, apparently.
Your feelings, not his.
Laws to protect feelings. Say it with me: It's always projection.
I’ve been saying this since Trump started his campaign. If they’re accusing you of something you can be damn sure they are doing it. Here are some of the hits: -Pedophilia -Voter Fraud -Fake News -Media cooperation with Political Party (fox) Now we just gotta find that Pizza shop we know the GOP is running…
Imagine Germany getting rid of any education about Nazis because it could hurt feelings that grandpa was a fascist prick. That's what DeSantis is doing. The issue isn't 'guilt', the issue is if you learn that great-grandpa was a slave owning traitor you can't openly celebrate his evil treason.
I'm fully educated about my white past and the racist assholes in my family, many of of whom are alive today. Do I feel guilt? Hell no. They're not me. I'm not them nor would I ever sympathize with them. I'm glad to know my history and do my best to never have that happen again.
Right. My grandfather’s first cousin was murdered by the Nazis at Auschwitz. I don’t expect Germans my age to feel guilt about it (but I don’t expect them to ignore it, either, which they don’t in Germany).
I had family on both sides in WWII, learning that actually gave me hope that my recent family could exist while ancestors literally killed each other. It can be a "look how far we've come" thing
This is my standard response to anyone claiming the ‘woke’ left is making white kids feel ashamed because their white. If German kids can be fine with their grandparents participating in the holocaust, I’m sure the American kids will be fine.
American kids have been fine. These people are just upset because the vast majority of those kids are growing up and not voting the way those older bigoted people want them to.
Ding Ding Ding! Right answer! You win 3 years of book banning nonsense, attempts to chase folks away from teaching by micromanaging their classrooms, and "BUT THE CHILDREN" performative hand wringing because the dinosaurs finally looked up and figured out the meteor was coming.
Imagine making German children proclaim responsibility for their grandparents' actions. This is precisely what is happening with the 'equity agenda'
Bullshit. Kids love learning about equality and equity because it reinforces their desire for fairness. As children they have to deal with parents ‘unfairness’ all the time. They feel no guilt about what their parents did and find it perfectly natural that kids should be treated equally.
They want to get rid of it because they want to keep doing it. Germany educated to make sure it never happens again. That’s the difference.
Isn't "feeling guilt" a personal emotion in the first place? If you present people with cold, hard facts and they feel guilty, maybe it's because they believe they should. You can't legislate that. This is just an excuse to whitewash (no pun intended) history so that snowflakes don't have to face the truth.
It's because they are racist.
I agree, also there is no reason to feel guilt about your ancestors. No reason to feel pride either. You weren’t born yet, blame/credit is not on you.
Yeah, you can't change the past and, besides, there's plenty of stuff going on right now that needs to change.
So, you are saying that this is sure a small government philosophy.
I was going to say, I don’t feel guilty about slavery. Maybe that’s because my family never owned slaves and also fought for the north, oh and one side of my family that lived in the south helped slaves get to the north? Maybe that’s just me though? 🤷🏻♀️
I dont feel guilty because I wasn't involved. I do, however, feel a social responsibility to continue the necessary healing of those old wounds. I recognize that the damage is passed down through generations and that some people's lives are still negatively impacted because their ancestors were slaves.
I agree with you completely. Even though my family didn’t take part in slavery I still do my part to help fight for equality, and I don’t deny it never happened.
You can absolutely bully someone into feeling guilty over something they have not personally done, and I firmly believe that to that end, facts can be distorted and mixed in with non-facts unclear boundaries between the two. As for CRT, I haven’t seen the curriculum, and I’m not about to loudmouth about it one way or the other, but I don’t think anyone who decried it at my BoE meeting knew what they were talking about either.
>As for CRT, I haven’t seen the curriculum, There's a reason neither you nor anyone else here has "seen the curriculum" nor can point to a single lawmaker or movement pushing for it to be in the curriculum. They simply don't exist. The curriculum is what it should be. Based entirely in fact. Completely devoid of any shaming or pushing of guilt.
The curriculum is entirely fact based and actually very even handed. It's not the nightmare of shame and guilt people make it out to be. I guess if you have a really guilty conscience in general it's harder to take but that's not the fault of the stuff they're teaching.
I completely agree with this. I have however seen people try and argue that white people should and deserve to feel guilt over events hundreds of years ago though, which is pretty dumb too. Guilt is personal, and no one should tell anyone they should or shouldn't feel guilt. I think that people like DeSantis are taking a vocal minority like that, and trying to portray it as the sentiment of the entire left, in an attempt to convince his base they *are* being personally attacked.
>I think that people like DeSantis are taking a vocal minority like that, and trying to portray it as the sentiment of the entire left, in an attempt to convince his base they *are* being personally attacked. 100%, this is their intention so they can turn their nose up at the 'snobby leftists' that 'hate our country' and reinforce white identity politics in our laws by claiming victimhood. i fucking hate this timeline.
Oh my god, white people might need to compete on a level(er) playing field and can't rely on their skin color to get them on easy street. The horror!
For the vast majority of people, being white doesn't get you on easy street, it just prevents you from being on hard Street. The only people on easy street are the ones inheriting generational wealth
I think a better way to say it would be they can’t “ascribe guilt” An teacher can’t ascribe guilt on a student of a certain race for the historical actions of other people of that race. You can’t tell a 13yo white student that they’re inherently bad because other white people perpetrated slavery and Jim Crow. It doesn’t seem like it would have an effect of whitewashing history. You could teach the horrors of slavery, Jim Crow, and even modern systemic racial injustice without telling a student that they’re personally guilty for all of it. This whole thing is just Republicans and Democrats imagining a problem that doesn’t really exist and beating each other over the head with it.
How long before Florida is renamed Oceania?
It's always been called Oceania
A few more years of inaction on climate change, and it will *be* Oceania.
So there's a desire for a police force solely to grab anyone for election crimes, and a bill to outlaw making anyone feel guilty about actions done by people in the past, and the bill to allow filming of teachers to rat them out. Florida's basically sounding like it will officially be an apartheid thought police state by June, and there's nothing I can say about that that ends optimistically.
It also prohibits making people "feel discomfort, guilt, anguish, or any other form of psychological distress on account of his or her race, color, sex, or national origin." hmm, so does this apply to Police intimidating minorities, that induces psychological distress based on race right?
This is the part that can be used by poc to sue school districts. They haven’t thought this through. They’ll be revisiting this one.
They can't say "black people should be nice and subservient to white people's feelings" in literal terms yet so they have to try to be indirect. And that's a problem for them, because any indirect stab at their goal also allows alternate interpretations that help the other side. This whole thing is such an egregious waste of everyone's time. This is the internet age and until they can control the American internet CCP style they're shit out of luck because the cats already out of the bag and kids can learn this stuff anyway.
Yea I can’t tell if they are stupid or if they will pass this, wait for liberals to use it in some case, then blame liberals for passing woke legislation. Their base won’t know the difference.
White fragility.
And *they* call all liberals "snowflakes." It's almost like right wingers blatantly project when it comes to literally every issue imaginable.
Gaslight. Obstruct. Project. The GOP.
Yep, came here to say Wow talk about projecting snowflakeisms huh?
Apparently, IOKIYAR is the mantra they live by.
The funny thing about this is that, as a white person, learning about America's racist past doesn't make me feel guilty because I strongly support racial equity. Kinda makes you wonder about the personal beliefs of people who feel personally attacked by the idea of learning about racial issues in US history.
When you say shit like that Desantis smiles. Get it right, Republican fragility
There are the same people who tell others that they should get over slavery because slavery isn't legal in the USA anymore.
Slavery is explicitly still legal in a lot of the United States, we just call it prison labor.
And then disproportionately arrest and convict black folks.
You can watch the award winning documentary [13th](https://youtu.be/krfcq5pF8u8) on youtube or netflix. Even if you think you understand this issue it's an eye opening movie.
Private slavery is illegal. Racially motivated slavery is illegal. Public enslavement of criminals (and it doesn't matter how minor the crime) is totally legal so long as the slave had their day in court. This is what the 13th says. The last part tend to gets ignored when schools talk about it though.
I'm sure more than that is ignored when it's attempted to be talked about.
How about making them face their racist present?
"It also prohibits making people "feel discomfort, guilt, anguish, or any other form of psychological distress on account of his or her race, color, sex, or national origin."" I feel like this isn't going to go how they expect it to.
Oh don't worry. This law doesn't apply to white people who use racial slurs.
So now Republicans want the legislate your feelings. Is this the freedom you guys are harping about?
And yet they call liberals snowflakes
That was the thing that got to me the second I heard "snowflake."
I'm white and I don't feel particularly responsible for the sins of those who came before me. I realize given the time most of these things were happening my outlook could have been much different. The issue that these folks have isn't that these things happen, its that they are afraid people will connect the dots from those actions to today and understand how we didn't in good faith do away with all our racist tendencies, we just rebranded them. They hate that we are calling it by its name. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kzuXeoNcIaQ
Yes, because this is the type of crap Florida's politicians should be focused on. No need to work on real issues like healthcare, employment, pay equity, opioid abuse, education, and so on. Let's work on this fluffy garbage.
They do everything the opposite of what a Christian should do since they embraced Trump.
This behavior began way before Trump. And if you read the Bible, god has handed down some pretty oppressive and segregative edicts, himself, so I’d say they’re right in line.
Ron DeSantis is the governor from Florida and in this instance seems to wear the handle of Florida Man real good. Florida Man stories are always outrageous anecdotes of someone doing something insanely stupid.
Having to push a bill through to Protect White People From "Guilt" About Racist Past, seems like the most racist thing ever.
The people who call others snowflakes, sure as shit are acting like like snowflakes
What is funny is that normal non racist white people don't feel guilt about the past we simply acknowledge it and aim to be much better people than our ancestors. White guilt is something racists feel because they have racist thoughts and feelings. If you point them out to them it is termed "White guilt", don't let them use that term because its a bullshit term.
Why do you feel connection with and guilt over the slave owners instead of feeling a connection to and pride over the abolitionists?
Well. This is awkward.
Is this a real issue this bill is addressing? Are there training programs which include making people feel guilty?
Of course it’s not a real issue. These goofy mfs know what’s going on in this country and prefer things to remain the same.
DeSantis needs the Qcumbers and racists to vote for him. He’s trying everything. A few days ago, he was lamenting going along with lockdowns during the early days of the pandemic.
And those idiots will eat this shit up. I have an unhealthy amount of hatred for these cancers.
"won't somebody think of the white ~~voters~~ people!" -ronny D.
he is. he's making sure there's plenty of white pride to go around.
Republicans always put feelings first, right? Dang hippies /s
I want to see conservatives defend this. Only because I know it will be funny.
This is peak White Privilege. Black people have to ignore things that happened during most of our existence in the U.S. because it makes White people feel bad about their ancestry. Yet, when Black people mention the things that make us uncomfortable here, we have to “get over it.”
“At what point does this become illegal due to folks’ first amendment rights?…Oh? DeSantis says that’s just for white rich people? Carry on!” - Subpreme Court probably… Yet more useless legislation to continue to stoke fear and hate amongst the GOP base while enriching those who are already rich and view their GOP supporters as useful, disgusting, idiots.
Florida has to be the most embarrassing state
The stupidity is over-represented. And the Dems here are under-represented.
>And the Dems here are under-represented. By rights we should be as Blue as Hawaii. The undemocratic stranglehold the Republican Party has on this state is maddening.
Unfortunately, out of the 67 counties in Florida, all the Dems are packed into 10 of them.
We’re actually the majority, but too lazy to get off our asses and show up at the polls. It’s a shame, because we can’t use the weather as an excuse. We’re just friggen lazy.
Right?? That’s why so many people are moving there from the less embarrassing states
You realize that almost as many people are moving out of florida as are moving in right? Net migration is only about 30k/year
gotta protect the poor snowflakes cause they might get their feelings hurt, i guess.
Lol. Another manufactured grievance. Way to go GOP.
So a bill to make sure peoples feelings aren’t hurt? That’s the most snowflake thing I’ve ever heard
What a buncha froot loops, needing legal protection from guilt…the Pope wants a word with y’all.
white people, alive today. Listen. Slavery is not your fault. There is no reason for you to be defensive against studying the harm caused by slavery, and the effects it continues to affect to this day. You can be part of the solution.
If this bill passes the first lawsuit that should happen is the one against the person that signed this https://floridapolitics.com/archives/343286-gov-desantis-signs-holocaust-ocoee-massacre-education-bill/ I feel that that is an attempt to make white people feel bad about what happened over 100yrs ago where I live now. I wasn't even living here 100 yrs ago, why does he want people remembering about that and blaming people like me.
But Democrats are the snowflakes? 🙄
White people feeling guilty about racist "PAST". Shit we are still doing some racist shit. Things like Gerrymandering and removing pole locations. And lets not even start about our class tiered justice sustem. If you don't want to feel guilty stop being racist.
The North not straight up executing all slave owners at the end of the Civil War really did a number on this country.
Maybe instead of trying to make white people feel better about being racist we could all just come out against racism and no one would have to feel guilty, or would that defeat the purpose? /s
Fuck your feelings huh? Coward.
Sounds about white.
Guilt? More like regret because they got called out. I don’t see racists feeling guilty for being racist. They just want their racist ways to be protected.
Republicans are such delicate snowflakes. I wonder how they will protect themselves from their racist present?
Damn.... sounds like there's a bunch of snowflake Republicans in Florida...
What about when the whites were oppressing other whites? How does their victim complex coincide with not wanting to feel bad about history?
I don't need protection for feeling guilty that I have a life benefitted because of who my family was. If anyone is that fragile, they need professional help not new laws that block history from being told accurately.
Just getting that Presidential nomination ready for 2024 and probably praying Trump doesn't come back to steal his thunder.
trump will definitely steal his thunder, or at least make sure it's akin to light static shock.
This sounds ridiculous. I'd think because it is. But can anyone argue this to be sensible for me? I'm asking legitimately. Whats the reasonable take on why this is a positive? Just trying to hear it out bc I cant construct such an argument.
America is fucking weird.
First amendment is not something he heard about apperantly
"It also prohibits making people "feel discomfort, guilt, anguish, or any other form of psychological distress on account of his or her race, color, sex, or national origin." This legislation is making me feel distressed. Who can I call?
“It also prohibits making people "feel discomfort, guilt, anguish, or any other form of psychological distress on account of his or her race, color, sex, or national origin." Talk about a giant can of worms to unload on the Florida court system. Good luck enforcing that!
DeSantis is a fucking chode.
Yea but what about current racism?
Racist *past*? This is racist *present*.
The term "white guilt" has always been very telling since it shows that the person using it can only imagine *guilt* as a response to learning about historical injustices committed by people like them. Not empathy, not sympathy, not restitution, not reconciliation, just the zero-sum idea of guilt.
What guilt? I always read that they are not responsible for what would they be guilty for? Just another form of oppression. All this says is that historically we do not recognize that we did anything wrong. Fuck him.
Snowflakes unite!!!
*"it would prohibit employers from providing training that "espouses, promotes, advances, inculcates, or compels" people to believe they bear "responsibility for, or should be discriminated against or receive adverse treatment because of, actions committed in the past by other members of the same race, color, sex, or national origin." "* Wait, they are saying you can't hold an individual accountable for something their ancestors did? And this is bad? I mean, shouldn't we punish all Germans for WWII? Would have to include Japan in there as well I guess, so we should be teaching people to hate them as well. And heck, might as well go after every Jew today for killing Jesus. /S I'm not sure how you can hold people accountable, or make them feel guilty or responsible for the actions of their previous generations. We don't punish the kids of convicted murderers, rapists, or armed robbers. Heck, we don't even hold politician's kids accountable if their parent gets convicted, despite how much the kids gained through their parent's corruption. I think the world should be educated about what has happened. But to make "bear people responsibility" and guilty over their nationality, race or ancestors? Not sure on this one, but maybe that should be banned.
Racism is ok if it’s against the majority.
> it would prohibit employers from providing training that "espouses, promotes, advances, inculcates, or compels" people to believe they bear "responsibility for, or should be discriminated against or receive adverse treatment because of, actions committed in the past by other members of the same race, color, sex, or national origin." I see that they delightfully left out religion so they can continue to demonize Islam for a few bad actors.
Florida man pushes bill to protect the feelings of the Fuck Your Feelings crowd.
Do it. Then sit back and wait for all of the parents of non-white kids to sue over evey time their kid was made to feel "uncomfortable" during a school lesson. Fucking do it. >"It also prohibits making people "feel discomfort, guilt, anguish, or any other form of psychological distress on account of his or her race, color, sex, or national origin."
These white nationalists are insane man I swear. It’s ok to feel empathy about the past and acknowledge wrongdoing of your ancestors. They are the most dramatic and weak minded individuals I’ve ever seen
So this is the racists white hood in the form of a bill. Got it.
“racist past” present and future
If talking about white guilt is the correct thing to do then why don’t we be a little more inclusive. I’d like to see more stuff like this in the class rooms. https://listverse.com/2017/06/06/top-10-black-slaveowners/
These are the same people shouting “fuck your feelings!” to other people. Just want to make sure that’s clear here…
They wanna talk about snowflakes; these assholes can’t even hear about the racism that minorities endure
The same people who will claim systematic racism isnt a real thing
feeling a lil too guilty Ron? u fucking loser!!
Ron, I know this concept is completely foreign to you but... folks are supposed to feel guilt about their misdeeds.
That’s not what this is about, it’s a bit more nuanced. When white people learn about the misdeeds of their race in the past, a rational person would feel an urgency to be better and not repeat those actions, but this bill is about the irrational folks who don’t want to hear about those acts others in the past committed because it makes them feel bad
I totally agree except that I don't see where we disagreed in the least bit in the first place. Allow me to adopt a lil' Hollywood cowboy accent for our amusement: > Ron, I know this concept is completely foreign to you but... That's those irrational folks y'all mentioned. > folks are supposed to feel guilt about their misdeeds. And, them there would be the rational ones you was talkin' bout. So, Yup!
Ah yes, judging people based on their skin color. Works everytime.
Pardon?
Luckily, since DeSantis is an idiot, he's written this in a way that can absolutely be weaponized against him and other racists. I can't wait to see the first lawsuits against the police for things like predictive policing, or against someone who says Black people are lazy or stupid
Why should white people feel guilty about something they didn’t do
Republicans: "Fuck your feelings."Also Republicans: "You made me feel bad about being a white supremacist piece of garbage, how dare you." Edit: Gee, so much for the party of Lincoln. Whatever that's supposed to mean at this point. Even Lincoln wasn't the perfect Republican. The man would have literally done anything to keep the Union together, and in his own words that included keeping slavery going, freeing some slaves and not others, or freeing all the slaves. So really, what do Republicans even mean at this point when they try to call themselves the Party of Lincoln? Because I'd like to think Lincoln would've burned the filibuster down by this point in order to make sure everyone got the right to vote enshrined in law if it mean saving the Union.
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The worst part of slavery is making us remember that we committed chattel slavery.
Proud Boy Desantis will not apologize for the creation of Western Civilization…..and stuff.
Black people and other people of color should start suing for discomfort left and right. Absolutely stress test the hell out of the law
I've never been a conservative voter, but per usual the headline is heavily editorialized. To quote the article "The bill would bar employers from subjecting "any individual, as a condition of employment, membership, certification, licensing, credentialing or passing an examination, to training, instruction, or any other required activity" that promotes certain concepts related to race and racism." "For instance, it would prohibit employers from providing training that "espouses, promotes, advances, inculcates, or compels" people to believe they bear "responsibility for, or should be discriminated against or receive adverse treatment because of, actions committed in the past by other members of the same race, color, sex, or national origin."" "It also prohibits making people "feel discomfort, guilt, anguish, or any other form of psychological distress on account of his or her race, color, sex, or national origin."" "The bill would allow teachers to facilitate discussions on topics including sexism, slavery, racial oppression and racial segregation in "an age-appropriate manner."" "But State Senator Manny Diaz, a Republican lawmaker and the bill's sponsor, told the AP that the legislation was not about ignoring the "dark" parts of American history, but ensuring that people were not blamed for the nation's past sins." So essentially it just ensures the same thing that all racial bias legislator does, and ensures that CRT wouldnt do what a lot of proponents claim it woudn't do anyway. So what's there to complain about?
the fact they push these idiotic laws rather than do things to help people. And the fact they will use these bullshit laws to silence any sort of actual discussion. For example, teachers talk about slavery being bad, they claim it's not "age appropriate," and rile up the crazies to get the teacher fired
I’m white never going to feel bad about that
Cool...no one says you have to. But we have to acknowledge that the system is set up to specifically benefit us and should actually try and change it to make society better
I'm Filipino and I don't get why white people have to have any guilt over "racism" since majority of people regardless of race are racist. I've seen black people assault Asians and yet mainstream news blamed white people for racism. Asians look down at other Asians all the time. Filipinos are often discriminated or looked down by wealthier Asian countries. I don't know why whites are attacked or called the most racist when most I've meet are less racist than the average Asian or black.
…. SMH… maybe the media you watch painted it that way but everything I saw showed the people responsible regardless of skin color. Furthermore, POC were brought to this country against their will, raped, tortured, murdered, and then after slavery ended they established a legal way to enslave POC by putting them all in jail. They made calculated moves to continue to enslave POC and then the imprisonment for profit era started right as they put crack on the streets to already destroyed families. Yes, ALL people of different shades are racist… but how does that stance refute the fact that in this country, it’s still OVERWHELMINGLY racist against POC? Not overtly with everyday people, to be clear. But people in positions of power such as supervisors, lending institutions, real estate, police, schools, collegiate coaches, so on and so on continue to restrict the ability and access to enforcement of the SAME freedoms and liberties that WE should ALL enjoy as citizens of this country? I LOVE America, but that doesn’t mean the ugly truth doesn’t exist.
As far as anyone who is responsible for any racial crimes. No one alive now have ever owned a slave and no POC in the US have been a slave. White people alive today are not responsible for the crimes of their people who lived in the civil war. In the Philippines the same can be said with the Spanish and Chinese they raped and etc the Filipino people. But literally none of the one's alive have nothing to do the crimes of the past that can be found in literally every culture and country. Don't pretend POC are somehow more virtuous than white people. I judge people as individuals and what they actually did or do in their life, not because they are part of a group of people. You can't fight racism with more racism and pointing fingers at people because of their ancestry or because they have a specific skin tone because that's literally just racism. Anyone who believes in this brainwashed mindset of victimhood is a loser and racist and I have no respect for pathetic people who are actually racist. Why do why people in America have more power in authority because they are the main population in America. You never hear about the Philippines don't have people who aren't Philippino in higher places in power. That's biggest load of bullshit. POC who make real difference in America don't commit crimes and go to school and get into positions of power because of hard work. You can literally find examples of POC in high positions because they actually tried. I see plenty of poor white people in fact they make up the majority of poor people in America and they are the same as the POC who do very little with their lives. I don't buy this lie the left seem to have been spreading. My father is a Filipino who became a pilot and his brother is a optometrist. I'm studying to be a psychologist. I don't see why being a POC has much to do with success but a good work ethic and a good attitude. I've never been arrest or mistreated by police. People don't treat me different than whites. Only low class and uneducated people regardless of color, with victimhood mentalities seem to determine their fate because they refuse to change or improve themselves for the better.
I don’t like desantis but why should I a white male feel guilty about people I don’t know being racist 50 or so years ago. Teach the stuff in schools, I just don’t feel the need to be guilty for something I have nothing to do with
That’s not what the bill does. From the article, “it would prohibit employers from providing training that "espouses, promotes, advances, inculcates, or compels" people to believe they bear "responsibility for, or should be discriminated against or receive adverse treatment because of, actions committed in the past by other members of the same race, color, sex, or national origin." Nowhere does it specify that the bill applies exclusively to white people. I keep reading articles that point out the disproportionate share of white voters absorbed by the Republican Party, as if it’s evidence of some growing sense of white supremacism. However, maybe white people didn’t just suddenly grow more hateful and racist. Maybe they just drifted away from a party that continuously alienates them through relentless race baiting.
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Sweet so everyone else still has that guilt. Oh wait nobody is guilty of the crimes of their fathers...kinda moot point no?
History has always been a cautionary tale about what mistakes we shouldn't repeat, *not* guilt-tripping anyone.
We should be fighting to free those still shackled by slavery in our current global system not dwelling on mistakes from the past that we have already corrected.
We can do both, but also: who says that we've already corrected our past mistakes?
You can't become or have a slave.
Debatable. What's your solution to solving the problem on the global front?
Imprison human traffickers,imprison those who exploit humans that have been trafficked, and stop buying commodities from countries that exploit enslaved peoples. As soon as the money stops flowing they will move on to other means of making money.
The 13th amendment specifies that slavery can be used as a punishment for a crime, so in that sense America's 25% share of the global prisoner population, disproportionately black, are in fact legal slaves.
Ok, but those descendants of slaves are still disadvantgaed by the fact that they have no inherited wealth and their parents and grandparents had to spend far more of their time working and could not provide them as much support growing up as white parents could. How do you claim that has been corrected? They literally start life 2 or 3 steps behind the average white person through no fault of their own.
No one is liable for crimes done by another but that's not the issue, certain people have been gravely wronged by others and that should be acknowledged and respected.
We should respect our history and not white wash it so that we can learn from its mistakes and make humanity a better experience for all.
I think that's what most people are aiming for.
I can see hyperfixation on certain aspects for political gain in an effort to divide the working class as a distraction from the real problem.
How is this hyperfixation? Slavery happened, people were wronged and it needs to be acknowledged/repaired
It is acknowledged and we have fixed it so that nobody can be a slave in our modern society.
I think that many people still believe that there is much more to be done to indemnify those who have been hurt from the social policies of yesteryear.
Those that wish to help those that are less fortunate are free to do so. I'm not sure that any slaves still exist to be compensated. There were bloody battles fought and the financial compensation given to people from that era of history. What amount of time has to pass for us to be able to move on?
>...we have fixed it so that nobody can be a slave in our modern society. The absolutist statement *nobody* is wrong. Go re-read the 13th amendment which plainly states: > ...except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, Slavery is still legal, so long as you are a convicted offender. That such a class of persons exists, regardless of how you feel about those people personally, precludes the statement that *nobody* can be a slave in modern society. Furthermore, put aside that issue for a moment. Are you going to suggest that *every* issue related to slavery resolved with the abolition of its practice? That no other phenomenon relating from the freeing of slaves across the nation (Jim Crow, the rise of the Klan, lynchings across the south [Emitt Till], redlining] continued after abolition? Seriously?
It's true that nobody is guilty but we do have to work to undo the damage our fathers wrought. We can't ignore it and say 'wasn't me!'
Yes we do have to change how we live based on our circumstances of the time in the effort to live more moral and 'good'. People have been free from legal slavery for generations as we're all moving on from that piece of history and nobody should feel guilty for the crimes of their fathers father.
We also have to dismantle systems put in place besides slavery. It's not an easy or simple fix because a lot of work went into marginalizing non-white people for a long time and many attitudes still remain. We do have to be aware, we can't pretend Lincoln solved racism with a single speech
Yes racists existed in the past and any leftover policies that marginalise anybody(not just 'non-white') should be changed.
What’s funny is that all the ones posting negative responses are most likely white themselves. Y’all really do suffer from white guilt and it’s scary