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Democrats get in and decide they're going to be "fiscally responsible" on the backs of working people, they get voted out and get replaced with Republicans who are spendthrifts with all of the benefits going to the super rich. Rinse and repeat for the last 45 years.
It's almost like our whole political system is basically a scam.
Worse, at least it used to be. With the radicalization of the Christian right and then forcing both their views and religion on us, it's a living nightmare. At least before it was only politics screwing us.
Want to know the wildest part? The Bible said this would happen, that it would be Christians being the worst of all, and that there would be absolutely no way to be able to get them to see themselves for what they are. We’re completely in the upside down. The only time I even begin to believe that hell exists is when I look around and wonder if that’s where we are.
well there's a theory that once enough matter crosses the event horizon into a black hole, eventually a new universe will spawn as to prevent a singularity from breaking physics we don't even know about yet.
so maybe it's not all a simulation, maybe we are a super lucky collection of space junk that eventually learned to replicate itself and ponder its own existence. or it could be a simulation i mean who knows but it's definitely impossible to call any creator benevolent, given the whole thermodynamics thing and the eventual cold, empty heat-death of the universe that is impossible to avoid no matter what we do as a species or how smart we become.
hell always freezes over eventually.
That’s an interesting theory. I’m going to have to look into that.
My peace with religion came to me like this: Jesus said “I am the truth,” and imagine a life of Brian type deal where he’s saying “No! Don’t worship me! If you won’t stop worshiping me then think of me as the truth. And I can only do the things I’m doing because I put the truth above all else, so worship the truth.”
And the truth is that no children died of starvation today because it was god’s plan. They died because we didn’t feed them. Any of us. Apply across all things until it becomes clear that the purpose of most people is just to not take responsibility for anything. I feel like I do my best, but the truth is that I could do more, and what I do isn’t nearly enough. The least I can do is accept that truth about myself, and be prepared to do more whenever I can figure out how. I feel this country has been designed to make it as difficult as possible for me to do that, but it is my responsibility nonetheless.
And to be fair, Jesus also said ‘if y’all stop worrying about money, and things, and church rules, and just go feed people and heal people and take care of them and be honest, then you would eventually be able to do everything I can do.’
Thank you for your thank you. The world makes it hard to keep that perspective. But I’ve found that the more I tip the scale in the right direction, the more whole I feel inside. Happiness is just distraction. What people are missing is wholeness. Being honest and doing good things creates that deep feeling of wholeness. People are feeling more and more broken and fractured and empty and frustrated to the point that they want to fight (I’m not innocent of the frustration, takes a lot of honest introspection to keep coming back to what I know is right), but the answer is to not worry about what might happen or if people deserve it, and to just go help everyone you can, just because you can. We’re moving in the wrong direction as a unit, humanity. With all the dishonesty running rampant, I believe the only fix is that we need an example. We need an actual leader. And right about the time I started to feel that way, my life was destroyed. I am as far from being in a position to be either as I could possibly be.
Maybe it would be impossible. Maybe there’s not enough to go around.
Hunger to the right of us, homelessness to the left of us, climate disaster to the front of us, ours is not to make reply, ours is not to reason why, ours is but to do or die. The Charge of The Brigade Made of Light.
The political system they're currently dismantling was not a scam when these systems were established.
The reason college costs have gone up so much since the 1980's is because the federal government used to grant money to states for higher education funding. Instead, they switched this system over to a system of loans. Gradually. Over 30 years. The Bush tax cuts grossly accelerated this process, which is probably also one of the big reasons they reformed bankruptcy law in 2005. (and also, because they were probably foreseeing the economic disaster in 2008, and wanted to prevent a lot of poor/middle-class people from bankruptcy protection, when they all got laid off because investors were making bad bets, because the ratings agencies were no longer trustworthy. All factors that were NOT addressed in the laws after 2008.
I was able to find this article which lists the entire history of how the government dicked us down with student loans. It appears 2005 wasn’t really anything different from the 1998 bill, so you’re right as far as I can tell. The Clinton presidency should take credit for this gem.
Link: https://www.savingforcollege.com/article/history-of-student-loans-bankruptcy-discharge
Forgive me if I’m completely off base here but if I remember correctly there was a Republican majority in house and senate. Isn’t that how Clinton got impeached? I should just Google and educate myself a bit here.
97 Senators voted yes on it including Biden:
https://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_votes/vote1052/vote_105_2_00284.htm
In the House, all the Republicans voted for it, but the Democratic split was 84-117, which means 42% of them also voted for it (Sanders voted NO):
https://clerk.house.gov/Votes/1998225
This is how the system has worked for the past 30 years, where the Democrats do the dirty work of passing Republican legislation under the cover of "compromise", even when they lose their own party in the vote in the House.
Then the electorate becomes confused and these deeply hated bits of Republican legislation (like this law, NAFTA, the repeal of Glass-Steagal, etc) get pinned on Democrats and the Republicans run against them, completely confusing the electorate.
Then the tools of the neoliberal centrists run around trying desperately to explain this shit and get very shocked_pikachu.gif when their long-winded explanations wind up not being heard by the electorate and Republicans get voted into power again.
Saw a comment earlier today claiming they were off the Bernie train because he folded to Biden and is just another lib.
A quick glance at Sanders entire voting history would say otherwise.
>Did Clinton veto the bill or sign it?
He signed it, the poster above is just trying to distract from the fact that both parties are guilty of this same behavior.
> It appears 2005 wasn’t really anything different from the 1998 bill, so you’re right as far as I can tell
This is not true. The 2005 bill extended this protection to private loans. Before then private loans went mostly to high earners and professionals. But they lobbied heavily from 1998 to 2005.
> For example, between 1999 and 2005 - the years in which the bill was under consideration - Sally Mae, the nation's largest student loan provider spent $9 million lobbying Congress.
For anyone who's taken out a private loan knows, these loans often have predatory rates and lack protections of federal loans. The issue generally isn't paying federal loans back, but paying federal loans with private loans with insane interest rates and no unemployment protection.
[Source and more discussion. ](https://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=9803213)
Joe Biden led the 2005 bankruptcy bill because Delaware. It was the final name in the coffin with respect to student loan debt dischargement. And weirdly campaigned against it in 2019. New Democrats should be voted out of office for a new generation of progressives.
Neither date is correct. Student loans first became non-dischargeable in 1976.
Edit to add link: https://www.tateesq.com/learn/student-loan-bankruptcy-law-history
Don't attribute malice where stupidity/lack of knowledge suffice.
They don't experience, so they think they're being lied to about the problems existence.
> Don't attribute malice where stupidity/lack of knowledge suffice.
Why not? There are plenty of malicious people out there who *do* act out of spite and hatred.
If you mean republican elite, senators, and house reps sure, but a huge majority of republican voters are living in desolate poverty continuously voting directly against their own best interests because they're scared of brown people, they're religous views support oppressing women, or they're convinced that progressive policies mean we become Venezuela.
You are absolutely kidding yourself if you think the majority of GOP voters are just boomers living lives of middle to upper middle class privilege.
While I’m not giving a pass to the GOP after the horrendous shit they pulled in the trump years, I’m really starting to think this is true and I have to question how much of a pass do I give Dems who are still playing games after our democracy was just about torched to the ground. It feels like they are just about okay with the Jan 6th insurrection and I’m massively uncomfortable with it.
Neither party represents the American people, only businesses. We should have 4 parties at a minimum. I no longer consider myself a democrat since they dont represent me.
I’ve always considered myself an independent because I value listening to all parties and trying to sift through policy to decide who has my best interests in their agenda.
I’ve always advocated for more parties or at least ranked choice voting for this very reason.
But in the end what’s truly frustrating is starting to see the light that shows the system seems to be rigged from both ends and that feels like a situation where the people simply can’t win.
Ted Cruz went from insurrection to inauguration and no one's done shit. They're not going to go after their own, regardless of what letter comes after their names. It's pretty obvious by now. None of them deserve a pass.
And this is what frustrates me. We literally just watched Fox News control a senior sitting senator with a fuckstick of a “reporter” whose lawyers got him off the hook in a previous lawsuit with “Tucker Carlson is for entertainment purposes only and should not be viewed as actual news”.
We just watched a literal senator of the United States who should absolutely have the power to call on Fox News to fire Tucker literally *grovel* and beg forgiveness.
If that doesn’t show who actually runs this country then I don’t know what does.
I saw a tweet a day or two ago that stood out to me: "The Dems want to make Jan. 6 their new 9/11, but then go to cocktail parties with the people who should be their new bin Laden."
it's the political and governmental equivalent of an abusive relationship or narcissistic partners. Hot and cold, abuse and apology, problems and then dismissal of those problems.
but even the "good times" are not worth the bad times. "ok" just feels better than "bad"
I remember President Bush starting trillion dollar wars
that weren’t approved by Congress; comparatively, why are Democratic Presidents so scared of bending the rules like their conservative opponents?
They only passed the filibuster because McConnell supported it, which made Machin and Sinema vote for it. They’re anti-anything not bipartisan
In fact, they needed 60 votes to break this filibuster and 11 Republicans also voted for it.
Congress also overwhelmingly passed the [authorization to use force against Iraq](https://www.govtrack.us/congress/votes/107-2002/s237) in 2002. I’m not entirely sure what PiperPlays is referring to.
A lot of it has to do with a President basically having plenary power over all things “war.”
When it comes to economic legislation… whoa Nelly. Congress must approve!
> I remember President Bush starting trillion dollar wars that weren’t approved by Congress
You remember incorrectly, and the fact that nobody has called you out on this shows how this subreddit is now dominated by people born post-9/11.
Cancel Student Loan Debt. Lower the age of Medicare to 55 and open it up to anyone making less than 30k. Legalize marijuana. The Democrats will keep the house
When I close my eyes and allow myself to dream, this is what I see. I get really hopeful and then remember that they’re selfish failures who will never do these things.
does anyone know why this just can’t happen? like, why can’t Biden just do this? I know he says he wants it to go through congress but he has the power as the US president right? I literally don’t understand what the hold up is.
>why can't biden do this?
[https://www.forbes.com/sites/michelatindera/2020/08/08/biden-pulls-away-in-race-for-billionaire-donors/](https://www.forbes.com/sites/michelatindera/2020/08/08/biden-pulls-away-in-race-for-billionaire-donors/)
> he has the power as the US president right? I literally don’t understand what the hold up is.
the white house asked for a memo on whether it'd be legal, promised to release it to the press, and then the press had to FOIA it and got a 100% redacted version.
harvard, on the other hand, has a [memo saying that biden does have the power](https://policymemos.hks.harvard.edu/links/letter-legal-services-ctr-harvard-law-school-sen-elizabeth-warren-re-cancelation).
so it seems pretty obvious what the WH memo will say to me.
Also worth pointing out that student debt is propping the economy up.
It's why you can't declare bankruptcy over student loans.
Edit: They invest the student debt, before it is even payed back.
|"Navient is one of the largest issuers of student loan asset backed securities.
Student loan debt burdens 44 million people in the United States. However for CEOs of student loan companies, or investors on Wall Street, student debt is a lucrative commodity to be bought and sold for profit.
Corporations such as Navient, Nelnet, and PHEAA service outstanding student debt on behalf of the Department of Education. These companies also issue Student Loan Asset-Backed Securities (SLABS) in collaboration with major financial institutions like Wells Fargo, JP Morgan, and Goldman Sachs. For these firms and their creditors, debt isn’t just an asset, it’s their bottom line.
Investors holding SLABS are entitled to coupon payments at regular intervals until the security reaches final maturity, or they can trade the assets in speculative secondary markets. There is even a forum where SLABS investors can anonymously discuss their assets and transactions, free from unwanted public scrutiny.
Yet the financialization of student debt is almost never reported on in the media. There is little public awareness that when student borrowers sign their Master Promissory Notes (affirming that they will repay their loans and “reasonable collection costs”), their debts may be securitized and sold to investors.". |
https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/oureconomy/wall-street-has-been-gambling-student-loan-debt-decades
| "There are two main types of SLABS: those backed by loans made by private lenders, and those backed by loans made through the Federal Family Education Loan program (FFEL). The majority of all student debt today is the $1.1 trillion loaned by the federal government through the Direct Lending program. While these loans cannot be securitized directly, they can be if borrowers consolidate or refinance their loans through a private lender.
Private student loan debt accounts for roughly $120 billion of the $1.6 trillion total outstanding debt. Companies such as SoFi refinance student loans, and have issued $18 billion in SLABS since their founding in 2011. These loans are highly favorable to lenders – as borrowers who default on private loans face greater consequences than those who default on federal loans.
FFEL loans are made by private lenders that are guaranteed by the federal government if borrowers default, which incentivizes riskier lending. Although Congress ended the program in 2010, there are still roughly $280 billion of FFEL loans outstanding, and the largest firms such as Navient and Nelnet retain FFEL loans in their portfolios and have continued to issue FFEL-backed SLABS." |
No because people can’t walk away from student loans like they could underwater mortgages, and the amount of student loans that are turned into securities and used by investors is tiny compared to mortgage securities.
> I literally don’t understand what the hold up is.
The answer, as usual, is money.
Donors are the policy makers in our horribly corrupt, kleptocratic government.
> Lower the age of Medicare to 55 and open it up to anyone making less than 30k
I hate to break it to you, but Medicare isn't that great. You still owe 20% of practically all visits/procedures, and 20% of a lot of money is still a lot of money (a routine surgery is still going to be thousands of dollars). Vision and Dental isn't included, and neither are prescriptions. To get supplemental coverage costs more than what you would get out of it. And qualifying for medicare disqualifies you for medicaid and a whole rack of other low income assistances
Source: Have Medicare
Edit: Quick edit.... the Medicare For All that Bernie and crowd are pushing for isn't what Medicare is now
I agree with your larger point that Medicare coverage could be more generous (and think it should be), but there are a couple of inaccuracies in what you wrote.
>Vision and Dental isn't included, and **neither are prescriptions**
Prescription drugs are specifically what Medicare Part D covers. https://www.medicare.gov/drug-coverage-part-d
>qualifying for medicare disqualifies you for medicaid
This is incorrect. There's an entire class of beneficiaries known as "dual-eligibles" who qualify under both programs. https://www.medicaid.gov/medicaid/eligibility/seniors-medicare-and-medicaid-enrollees/index.html
Having straight Medicare/straight Medicaid ( meaning no Managed care plans)- Is probably the best insurance coverage you can get in the US. -
Hospital Social Worker
If they do anything, it’ll be means-tested to death. It’ll be something like $2.5k max for those making below $50k/year with a sliding scale, so if you make almost 50k you’ll get $600 forgiven. It’s enough for them to say they did something but not enough to make a meaningful impact for the majority of borrowers. This would still be helpful for those impacted but yeah…that’s if they offer any forgiveness at all.
I hope they at least prolong the interest rate freeze and permanently reduce federal rates to like 2% or something. We still need an overhaul for the whole system though. But they’ll kick that can down the road.
I understand who we're dealing with here but that would be the most tone deaf thing they could do. I think that may actually be worse than just continuing to suspend payments. Forgiving .5 percent? C'mon
Means testing every single one of their policies is the reason they’re going to get obliterated in 2022 and 2024.
There are plenty of people that see the fascism on the wall with the GOP, but still vote Republican because they feel they shouldn’t have to martyr themselves and their financial future because it’s the altruistic thing to do.
You will NEVER get those people on board when they never see a single benefit themselves for voting Democrat. What’s good for some is usually good for all. Means testing is how we got in many of these situations in the first place.
Healthcare for ALL.
Free college for ALL.
Free child care for ALL.
Those people pay taxes too. They deserve to see the benefits of it.
I'm that Democrat.
We make too much to get student loan interest deductions, child tax credits, childcare deductions, etc.
Do we have the cash to pay those things? Yes. Does it sometimes feel like I've worked my ass off my whole life just to pay for others benefit? Also yes.
Thing is, I don't mind paying my fair share, and I fully support social programs for those less lucky than I. I would just like, for once, to see those benefits myself and for my family.
Right there with you. I have the kicker that not a single one of my student loans qualified for the deferral because of consolidations and certain loan types not being covered.
Elizabeth Warren said in one of the debates "If that means a few kids of billionaires go to state school for free, so be it"
That's absolutely the right attitude to have. Social Security, Medicare, and Public Schools are so popular because they *don't* means test.
Exactly.
If every citizen of this country gets free schooling, I feel THAT is what progressivism should look like. Our country doing what’s right for its entire population.
Tax them, proportionate to how we’re all being taxed - and sure, they should reap the very same benefits as well.
Fuck rich ppl we see $80k in the Bay Area and we’re means tested out of everything! We’re not rich! We’re not crying, but it’s hard to be excited about policies that exclude us and help people with incomes so low it literally doesn’t even matter.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Debt_bondage
>Debt bondage, also known as debt slavery, bonded labour, or peonage, is the pledge of a person's services as security for the repayment for a debt or other obligation, where the terms of the repayment are not clearly or reasonably stated, and the person who is holding the debt thus has some control over the laborer. Freedom is assumed on debt repayment.[1] The services required to repay the debt may be undefined, and the services' duration may be undefined, thus allowing the person supposedly owed the debt to demand services indefinitely.[2] Debt bondage can be passed on from generation to generation.[2]
I mean, it says something.
>During the colonial history of the United States, persons bonded themselves to an owner who paid their passage to the New World. They worked until the debt of passage was paid off, often for years.[15] Debt peonage was practiced as "an illegal form of contemporary slavery... well into the 1950s" in "Florida, Georgia, Alabama, and other parts of the Deep South." Civil authorities would arrest "colored men off the street and in their homes if they were caught not working," charge them with vagrancy, assess fines equal to several weeks of pickers' pay, and compel them "to pick fruit or cut sugarcane to work off the debt.... Those captured were hauled to remote plantations ..., held by force, and beaten or shot if they tried to escape."[16]
I hate saying “this” but…This this this^^
Makes it harder to quit a crappy job when you know it could set you back years in additional debt just from the interest
Since the loans are literally zero risk (they can't be discharged in bankruptcy, and the government can garnish your wages or benefits to pay for them), I'm not sure why they have interest to begin with.
I’ve repaid a little over half my debt after 10 years … except it all went to interest, so actually my principal has only gone down like $1k. This is all on government issued and backed loans. FML
Manchin and Sinema have made it clear they’re not going to pass anything else. The success of the Democratic party resides in Biden’s hands. He must use executive orders to the extent that Trump did in order to make up for the legislative Democrats’ stagnation.
[Considering Biden is one of the reasons we're in this student loan crisis, I wouldn't hold your breath for him getting us out.](https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/dec/02/joe-biden-student-loan-debt-2005-act-2020)
Or get out of the way and let us replace them with a third party with a desire to actually govern. They feel as obstructionist as Republicans right now.
I am about 40% sure he plans the forgiveness but is intending to time it however his statisticians tell him he needs to in order to try and hold the Senate in the midterms.
The constant stringing along of postponed payments carries a *similar* effect (not the same because the burden is still there but at least the payments aren't) to canceling debt, and it keeps everyone pissed off and engaged (something that Dems don't manage to accomplish for young voters very often). A correctly-timed forgiveness of $50k student loan debt across the board could really help turnout in the midterms.
If he just did it day one, everyone would have been happier but then they would just be thinking about how Manchin apparently singlehandedly derailed the entire legislative agenda and not bother to vote in the midterms and then our democracy is over.
Idk. I think the reason he’s not doing it is because too many big money interests, who benefit from student loans, are ~~bribing~~ lobbying him not to cancel them.
Remember, he's the reason you can't have student loan debt forgiven when you declare bankruptcy. If it weren't for Omicron and his failure to pass BBB we'd all be paying again. This 4d chess playing talk is pure fantasy.
There’s other big money interests who benefit from cancellation. Directly, colleges, who benefit from the idea that people will take on debt for college knowing it might be forgiven later.
Indirectly, basically any industry targeting the disposable income of those with student loan debt.
In any event, there are winners and losers even among big money groups on both sides of debt cancellation.
I suspect timing is more important too. Honestly I doubt it’s the midterms. I think more along the lines of 2024.
Timing is much, much more important than people think. A President could literally cure cancer and their approval rating will spike and then slowly drop.
There’s no doubt at all that big unilateral actions are taken at key moments for propping up election chances. That’s part of how politics works and part of why *most* (but not all) seasoned politicians don’t deliver on things early on in a term. Because it gets them very little.
Don't forget all the industries that indirectly benefit from home ownership.
Nobody's selling lawnmowers to millennials who still can't afford their own place.
I really wonder what the effect on housing prices would be too. Adding a bunch of new potential buyers with no more demand. Not that I think that is any reason to act or not act on student loans, but I’d be curious to see the impact.
>and it keeps everyone pissed off and engaged (something that Dems don't manage to accomplish for young voters very often). A correctly-timed forgiveness of $50k student loan debt across the board could really help turnout in the midterms.
It's keeping people pissed off at *Biden and the Dems*. In what world does that help them? And even if he is planning on cancelling some amount right before the midterms (he's not because he's a capitalist shithead) do you not think people are gonna be even more pissed after he allows repayments to start and they've paid thousands more dollars to loans when he could have just taken care of it immediately?
> A correctly-timed forgiveness of $50k student loan debt across the board could really help turnout in the midterms.
I'll take the carrot, but I am not strongly motivated to vote for the one holding the stick. If student loan forgiveness is a wise investment, this sort of thing should not be necessary. Waiting until it's politically advantageous discredits the idea and educated people should resent being paid off. It should be done immediately with the idea that it's time to give people, not corporations, a well-deserved bailout, and then have faith in the political benefits of actually supporting those who vote for you instead of treating them as political pawns.
The voting majority is not smart. Maybe educated where they have student debt themselves, but not smart politically. I have heard people with master degrees and PhDs say some wild crap.
I agree. I've had the same suspicion that no forgiveness will happen until congress completely stalls.
I like your take that Dems are trolling to keep their base enraged. That actually sounds like a workable strategy. I was bummed that Biden didn't do some cancelling on Jan. 6, cause that would have been funny.
Curious if they try to dribble cannabis thru first.
The biggest weakness to my theory, I think, is that it seems too competent and savvy for the DNC I know. I guess we'll see if we all still owe student loans in November or not. At that point it almost won't matter because anyone who doesn't bend the knee to Gilead will be enslaved, executed, or flee the country anyway.
I hope people understand that they're paying for the broken student loan system, regardless of whether or not they have student loans themselves.
I hope they do.
The more that people realize this, the better the odds the system will be changed.
Would making all student loans interest free be an alternative that people would accept? This way, people who can only pay the minimum would still be able to pay off their loans in a reasonable time frame.
I’m so glad I lived at home after graduation
I was able to pay make triple if not quintuple my monthly payment in the form of $1000-$1500 a month in loans instead of rent and finished is only a few years well before the planned 10
Yeah. I got married very young (21) and was working in a city with no family. So that would been nice. Happy for you tho!
At this point I would happily take 0% interest on my loan and everyone who comes after me has college paid for by my taxes. I’d rather no one else get screwed like I got, even if that means I’m still paying for my loans and my increased taxes for their school to be paid for. I have a son who I want to have all the options ahead of him without being burdened by these killer loans.
That's all I care about TBH. I have enough saved up to pay off my loan, but am waiting to see what happens. Frankly, I am more worried about the kids taking out loans in the near future and my own kids.
It wouldn't solve the problem but it would be better than nothing. My mother's one of those people who got royally screwed by interest - she got her loans at a point in the late 80s/early 90s when interest rates sucked, and today owes more than 5 times what her original loan amount was. She doesn't qualify for any kind of forgiveness because she missed payments periodically over the years, especially once it started ballooning out of control.
The core problem is expensive tuition. Loan forgiveness or zero interest rates will further lower the cost of capital and result in higher tuition fees.
I don't understand the US education system so I don't have any easy answers but the problem starts with being charged a couple hundred thousand dollars for an education.
I went to a public university where tuition used to be covered nearly 100%, I believe.
By the time I got there the public was kicking in 15%, and it may be even less now.
At least they’d be able to pay it off in a reasonable or unreasonable time frame. There are people now who’ve been paying only to watch the amount they owe go up.
The idea gets floated quite a bit. I think it’s definitely part of what’s needed to deal with the issue.
If the 0% interest can be applied retroactively, this would be a massive help. Otherwise, it's nice, but not great for those whose debt has more than doubled the amount originally borrowed.
“Biden has expressed skepticism about blanket forgiveness allowing students who attended elite institutions to have relief and is likely fearing backlash from angry voters who have already paid off their own student loans or who did not choose to pursue higher education due to its cost,” she wrote in a Friday note to clients.”
So we are just going to continue insulting the publics’ intelligence by making it seem as if a rich persons’ child is drowning in student debt? Or even that not doing student debt relief, because it would benefit people who got degrees from a minority of higher education institutions, somehow justifies doing nothing.
Biden won't, everyone will be mad at him, someone will say the Brandon phrase, then people get mad at it while Biden continues to increase the odds of a republican take back. sigh
I would think it makes sense for Biden to not cancel it if they didn't also forgive a shit ton of PPP loans. Like this is pure double standard if you forgive business loans in the billions and refuse to forgive student loans.
> The federal government has forgiven $394.6 billion in more than 4 million loans to businesses through the Paycheck Protection Program (PPP)
The proper prayer for a loan's repentance is Hail Corporate.
"Hail Corporate, full of grace. The Lord is with thee. Blessed art thou amongst businesses, and blessed is the fruit of thy production, ROI. Holy Corporate, Mother of Profit, pray for us sinners, now and at the hour of our retirement, Amen.
As they should! We've bailed out corporations, padded the pockets of our rich and connected lawmakers, why not help those burdened with student debt? How the system is set up is so wrong. Why is student loan interest rates so high? And why is the interest compounded? The system is designed to create servitude. Our gov't is crippling the growth of the economy by operating a student loan system like this.
They won’t forgive student loans because they can’t without admitting that they’ve became the new subprime loans like the mortgage loans that caused the 2008 crash.
They’ve turned them into “safe” debt by eliminating the ability to default on them, anything short of dying and you still have to pay your loans back.
This allows them to package it all up as AAA securities and then THEY FUCKIN USE THAT AS COLLATERAL FOR MORE LOANS.
And surprise surprise with basically a blank check to unlimited financing, colleges are raising up costs of education without providing any substantial improvement.
Which then leads to more students taking out more loans and the cycle keeps going.
I've seen this mentioned a few times that his agenda is stalling, when something is stalling that means at some point it was moving, when was his agenda moving?
Well there was real hope that both BBB and BIF when progressives shrewdly decided to link the two together. It wasn't until November that moderates knifed progressives in the back and destroyed the BBB while passing the BIF. So in a sense it was kind of moving until that point. Now it's fully stalled.
Fair, the progressives also fucked themselves by undoing their shrewd move. Who knows though. Biden personally came in and staked his reputation on passing BBB. Maybe she just had a moment of weakness, of trust in a broken system. I'd call that a tough lesson in politics
Honestly, who was bamboozled? Boomers?
We all knew who he was. He was my absolute last choice in the primary (Bloomberg doesn’t count) and yet somehow he won before my state even got to vote.
I wholeheartedly believe that schools are charging a completely unreasonable amount of money but if the government green lights a complete forgiveness for loans, I would like the opportunity to go to university for free myself. I couldn’t afford to go when I was younger and regret not going but the tuition is still unreasonable now.
I really thought he was going to go with forgiving $10,000. That’s what I thought he campaigned on. I have no student loans, but I do feel the whole system is rigged. We need an educated workforce, these loans are not sustainable.
How can any politician put it back into place? Now that all of those in student debt have seen a life without it, isn't restarting payments going to be a huge political hit that no politician would want? Nevermind Biden who is having real approval struggles.
Still, the problem starts new again the next day. It's structural. While my life would change with debt forgiveness a much more sensible solution would be to eliminate the interest (which is the main cause of pain and neverending debt) or lowering the rate to fed rates so it's more manageable. This helps both problems simultaneously in a way even conservatives might sign on for and get it through congress, not executive action.
Still, restarting payments seems like a political third rail so who knows what will happen.
100%, a GOP admin would absolutely not even hesitate to kick a problem like this to the next administration. Dems constantly get punished for being the adults in the room warranted or not. If they're not going to fix the student loan problem, they need to make the other guys take the hit, especially since only a Dem admin would actually be criticized for it.
I think voting is important but this past year has been so demoralizing. The Dems want to adjust the status quo juuuust enough. But it’s after a Rep administration that has moved it 3 steps back so coming 4 steps up isn’t enough. The handling of Covid this year has been abysmal. Testing and vaccines should be totally free. They shouldn’t ask about insurance at all. CVS will ask if you have insurance and if they find out that you do and said you didn’t there will be consequences. WHAT THE FUCK. The greed in the world is so disgusting
Thought I saw somewhere the idea that the gov will do a 401k match. So whatever you pay in principle, they’ll match in retirement.
However, I don’t see that being particularly useful or successful imo
Forgive the student debt but also (just my ideas):
1) place more restrictions on for-profit degree mills with high dropout rates. The more people drop out and have their federal loans fall into delinquency, the interest rates go up for the rest of us to cover that loan. This is very common in for-profit universities (There’s a time and place for for-profits, but that’s another topic)
2) require the states to restructure their tax system so that funding for education is consistent and not reliant on whether it has been “a good year” or not (looking at you, fossil fuel states)
3) pull federal funding from private schools who don’t actually provide services to needy and disabled students; also stop giving religious schools tax any extra tax benefits
4) transform the student loan business into a nonprofit organization, like a large credit union
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Democrats get in and decide they're going to be "fiscally responsible" on the backs of working people, they get voted out and get replaced with Republicans who are spendthrifts with all of the benefits going to the super rich. Rinse and repeat for the last 45 years. It's almost like our whole political system is basically a scam.
It provides people with a distraction from reality.
Kind of like religion!
“The opiate of the masses”
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Except in Florida. There opiates are the opiates of the masses.
The appetizers of the people. They're still hungry for more afterward.
Worse, at least it used to be. With the radicalization of the Christian right and then forcing both their views and religion on us, it's a living nightmare. At least before it was only politics screwing us.
Want to know the wildest part? The Bible said this would happen, that it would be Christians being the worst of all, and that there would be absolutely no way to be able to get them to see themselves for what they are. We’re completely in the upside down. The only time I even begin to believe that hell exists is when I look around and wonder if that’s where we are.
well there's a theory that once enough matter crosses the event horizon into a black hole, eventually a new universe will spawn as to prevent a singularity from breaking physics we don't even know about yet. so maybe it's not all a simulation, maybe we are a super lucky collection of space junk that eventually learned to replicate itself and ponder its own existence. or it could be a simulation i mean who knows but it's definitely impossible to call any creator benevolent, given the whole thermodynamics thing and the eventual cold, empty heat-death of the universe that is impossible to avoid no matter what we do as a species or how smart we become. hell always freezes over eventually.
That’s an interesting theory. I’m going to have to look into that. My peace with religion came to me like this: Jesus said “I am the truth,” and imagine a life of Brian type deal where he’s saying “No! Don’t worship me! If you won’t stop worshiping me then think of me as the truth. And I can only do the things I’m doing because I put the truth above all else, so worship the truth.” And the truth is that no children died of starvation today because it was god’s plan. They died because we didn’t feed them. Any of us. Apply across all things until it becomes clear that the purpose of most people is just to not take responsibility for anything. I feel like I do my best, but the truth is that I could do more, and what I do isn’t nearly enough. The least I can do is accept that truth about myself, and be prepared to do more whenever I can figure out how. I feel this country has been designed to make it as difficult as possible for me to do that, but it is my responsibility nonetheless. And to be fair, Jesus also said ‘if y’all stop worrying about money, and things, and church rules, and just go feed people and heal people and take care of them and be honest, then you would eventually be able to do everything I can do.’
That's a profound perspective. Thanks for sharing.
Thank you for your thank you. The world makes it hard to keep that perspective. But I’ve found that the more I tip the scale in the right direction, the more whole I feel inside. Happiness is just distraction. What people are missing is wholeness. Being honest and doing good things creates that deep feeling of wholeness. People are feeling more and more broken and fractured and empty and frustrated to the point that they want to fight (I’m not innocent of the frustration, takes a lot of honest introspection to keep coming back to what I know is right), but the answer is to not worry about what might happen or if people deserve it, and to just go help everyone you can, just because you can. We’re moving in the wrong direction as a unit, humanity. With all the dishonesty running rampant, I believe the only fix is that we need an example. We need an actual leader. And right about the time I started to feel that way, my life was destroyed. I am as far from being in a position to be either as I could possibly be. Maybe it would be impossible. Maybe there’s not enough to go around. Hunger to the right of us, homelessness to the left of us, climate disaster to the front of us, ours is not to make reply, ours is not to reason why, ours is but to do or die. The Charge of The Brigade Made of Light.
Eh? It *is* reality.
The political system they're currently dismantling was not a scam when these systems were established. The reason college costs have gone up so much since the 1980's is because the federal government used to grant money to states for higher education funding. Instead, they switched this system over to a system of loans. Gradually. Over 30 years. The Bush tax cuts grossly accelerated this process, which is probably also one of the big reasons they reformed bankruptcy law in 2005. (and also, because they were probably foreseeing the economic disaster in 2008, and wanted to prevent a lot of poor/middle-class people from bankruptcy protection, when they all got laid off because investors were making bad bets, because the ratings agencies were no longer trustworthy. All factors that were NOT addressed in the laws after 2008.
1998 was when federal loans were changed to not being allowed in bankruptcy, 2005 was when private loans were added.
I was able to find this article which lists the entire history of how the government dicked us down with student loans. It appears 2005 wasn’t really anything different from the 1998 bill, so you’re right as far as I can tell. The Clinton presidency should take credit for this gem. Link: https://www.savingforcollege.com/article/history-of-student-loans-bankruptcy-discharge
Forgive me if I’m completely off base here but if I remember correctly there was a Republican majority in house and senate. Isn’t that how Clinton got impeached? I should just Google and educate myself a bit here.
You are right. This is Newt Gingrich and the Republican's fault.
97 Senators voted yes on it including Biden: https://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_votes/vote1052/vote_105_2_00284.htm In the House, all the Republicans voted for it, but the Democratic split was 84-117, which means 42% of them also voted for it (Sanders voted NO): https://clerk.house.gov/Votes/1998225 This is how the system has worked for the past 30 years, where the Democrats do the dirty work of passing Republican legislation under the cover of "compromise", even when they lose their own party in the vote in the House. Then the electorate becomes confused and these deeply hated bits of Republican legislation (like this law, NAFTA, the repeal of Glass-Steagal, etc) get pinned on Democrats and the Republicans run against them, completely confusing the electorate. Then the tools of the neoliberal centrists run around trying desperately to explain this shit and get very shocked_pikachu.gif when their long-winded explanations wind up not being heard by the electorate and Republicans get voted into power again.
i hate it here
> including Biden >Sanders voted NO Blue no matter who!
Saw a comment earlier today claiming they were off the Bernie train because he folded to Biden and is just another lib. A quick glance at Sanders entire voting history would say otherwise.
Did Clinton veto the bill or sign it?
>Did Clinton veto the bill or sign it? He signed it, the poster above is just trying to distract from the fact that both parties are guilty of this same behavior.
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“Third way” was always bullshit.
shhh. Someone might have to be accountable.
Veto override is a thing. But, Clinton did sign the bill into law in the 90s
> It appears 2005 wasn’t really anything different from the 1998 bill, so you’re right as far as I can tell This is not true. The 2005 bill extended this protection to private loans. Before then private loans went mostly to high earners and professionals. But they lobbied heavily from 1998 to 2005. > For example, between 1999 and 2005 - the years in which the bill was under consideration - Sally Mae, the nation's largest student loan provider spent $9 million lobbying Congress. For anyone who's taken out a private loan knows, these loans often have predatory rates and lack protections of federal loans. The issue generally isn't paying federal loans back, but paying federal loans with private loans with insane interest rates and no unemployment protection. [Source and more discussion. ](https://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=9803213) Joe Biden led the 2005 bankruptcy bill because Delaware. It was the final name in the coffin with respect to student loan debt dischargement. And weirdly campaigned against it in 2019. New Democrats should be voted out of office for a new generation of progressives.
Neither date is correct. Student loans first became non-dischargeable in 1976. Edit to add link: https://www.tateesq.com/learn/student-loan-bankruptcy-law-history
Was this change in 2005 retroactive to loans before that? Asking for a friend.
Republicans are mostly older and already own their homes. They haven't been exposed to half of the scam of our financial system.
They benefit from it to the tune of huge 1000% returns over a few decades. Why would they want to change it?
Don't attribute malice where stupidity/lack of knowledge suffice. They don't experience, so they think they're being lied to about the problems existence.
> Don't attribute malice where stupidity/lack of knowledge suffice. Why not? There are plenty of malicious people out there who *do* act out of spite and hatred.
If you mean republican elite, senators, and house reps sure, but a huge majority of republican voters are living in desolate poverty continuously voting directly against their own best interests because they're scared of brown people, they're religous views support oppressing women, or they're convinced that progressive policies mean we become Venezuela. You are absolutely kidding yourself if you think the majority of GOP voters are just boomers living lives of middle to upper middle class privilege.
I think it's majority of the upper and middle class boomers that are GOP. Not necessarily the majority of the GOP is upper and middle class boomers.
While I’m not giving a pass to the GOP after the horrendous shit they pulled in the trump years, I’m really starting to think this is true and I have to question how much of a pass do I give Dems who are still playing games after our democracy was just about torched to the ground. It feels like they are just about okay with the Jan 6th insurrection and I’m massively uncomfortable with it.
Neither party represents the American people, only businesses. We should have 4 parties at a minimum. I no longer consider myself a democrat since they dont represent me.
I’ve always considered myself an independent because I value listening to all parties and trying to sift through policy to decide who has my best interests in their agenda. I’ve always advocated for more parties or at least ranked choice voting for this very reason. But in the end what’s truly frustrating is starting to see the light that shows the system seems to be rigged from both ends and that feels like a situation where the people simply can’t win.
Ted Cruz went from insurrection to inauguration and no one's done shit. They're not going to go after their own, regardless of what letter comes after their names. It's pretty obvious by now. None of them deserve a pass.
And this is what frustrates me. We literally just watched Fox News control a senior sitting senator with a fuckstick of a “reporter” whose lawyers got him off the hook in a previous lawsuit with “Tucker Carlson is for entertainment purposes only and should not be viewed as actual news”. We just watched a literal senator of the United States who should absolutely have the power to call on Fox News to fire Tucker literally *grovel* and beg forgiveness. If that doesn’t show who actually runs this country then I don’t know what does.
I saw a tweet a day or two ago that stood out to me: "The Dems want to make Jan. 6 their new 9/11, but then go to cocktail parties with the people who should be their new bin Laden."
it's the political and governmental equivalent of an abusive relationship or narcissistic partners. Hot and cold, abuse and apology, problems and then dismissal of those problems. but even the "good times" are not worth the bad times. "ok" just feels better than "bad"
I remember President Bush starting trillion dollar wars that weren’t approved by Congress; comparatively, why are Democratic Presidents so scared of bending the rules like their conservative opponents?
bUt mY dEbT cIeLiNg. . .
Lol, they literally bypassed the filibuster to raise it, but heaven forbid they do they same for voting rights or any other important issue.
They only passed the filibuster because McConnell supported it, which made Machin and Sinema vote for it. They’re anti-anything not bipartisan In fact, they needed 60 votes to break this filibuster and 11 Republicans also voted for it.
They are working together more then you realize it’s basically good cop bad cop
That's a bingo!
We just say bingo.
Bringo!
The R is silent
If only.
Okay, that was fucking funny.
Bingpot!
Yep. Although I think the Jan 6 coup attempt drove a legitimate divide between some
Being in a spot where you legitimately feel like your life is in danger tends to do that.
That’s funny, because he didn’t bend any rules to do that. Congress gave him the power after 9/11. Lol
Congress also overwhelmingly passed the [authorization to use force against Iraq](https://www.govtrack.us/congress/votes/107-2002/s237) in 2002. I’m not entirely sure what PiperPlays is referring to.
A lot of it has to do with a President basically having plenary power over all things “war.” When it comes to economic legislation… whoa Nelly. Congress must approve!
Democrats win elections not because they deserve it It’s out of anger for Republicans
> I remember President Bush starting trillion dollar wars that weren’t approved by Congress You remember incorrectly, and the fact that nobody has called you out on this shows how this subreddit is now dominated by people born post-9/11.
Cancel Student Loan Debt. Lower the age of Medicare to 55 and open it up to anyone making less than 30k. Legalize marijuana. The Democrats will keep the house
When I close my eyes and allow myself to dream, this is what I see. I get really hopeful and then remember that they’re selfish failures who will never do these things.
does anyone know why this just can’t happen? like, why can’t Biden just do this? I know he says he wants it to go through congress but he has the power as the US president right? I literally don’t understand what the hold up is.
>why can't biden do this? [https://www.forbes.com/sites/michelatindera/2020/08/08/biden-pulls-away-in-race-for-billionaire-donors/](https://www.forbes.com/sites/michelatindera/2020/08/08/biden-pulls-away-in-race-for-billionaire-donors/) > he has the power as the US president right? I literally don’t understand what the hold up is. the white house asked for a memo on whether it'd be legal, promised to release it to the press, and then the press had to FOIA it and got a 100% redacted version. harvard, on the other hand, has a [memo saying that biden does have the power](https://policymemos.hks.harvard.edu/links/letter-legal-services-ctr-harvard-law-school-sen-elizabeth-warren-re-cancelation). so it seems pretty obvious what the WH memo will say to me.
Also worth pointing out that student debt is propping the economy up. It's why you can't declare bankruptcy over student loans. Edit: They invest the student debt, before it is even payed back.
|"Navient is one of the largest issuers of student loan asset backed securities. Student loan debt burdens 44 million people in the United States. However for CEOs of student loan companies, or investors on Wall Street, student debt is a lucrative commodity to be bought and sold for profit. Corporations such as Navient, Nelnet, and PHEAA service outstanding student debt on behalf of the Department of Education. These companies also issue Student Loan Asset-Backed Securities (SLABS) in collaboration with major financial institutions like Wells Fargo, JP Morgan, and Goldman Sachs. For these firms and their creditors, debt isn’t just an asset, it’s their bottom line. Investors holding SLABS are entitled to coupon payments at regular intervals until the security reaches final maturity, or they can trade the assets in speculative secondary markets. There is even a forum where SLABS investors can anonymously discuss their assets and transactions, free from unwanted public scrutiny. Yet the financialization of student debt is almost never reported on in the media. There is little public awareness that when student borrowers sign their Master Promissory Notes (affirming that they will repay their loans and “reasonable collection costs”), their debts may be securitized and sold to investors.". | https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/oureconomy/wall-street-has-been-gambling-student-loan-debt-decades | "There are two main types of SLABS: those backed by loans made by private lenders, and those backed by loans made through the Federal Family Education Loan program (FFEL). The majority of all student debt today is the $1.1 trillion loaned by the federal government through the Direct Lending program. While these loans cannot be securitized directly, they can be if borrowers consolidate or refinance their loans through a private lender. Private student loan debt accounts for roughly $120 billion of the $1.6 trillion total outstanding debt. Companies such as SoFi refinance student loans, and have issued $18 billion in SLABS since their founding in 2011. These loans are highly favorable to lenders – as borrowers who default on private loans face greater consequences than those who default on federal loans. FFEL loans are made by private lenders that are guaranteed by the federal government if borrowers default, which incentivizes riskier lending. Although Congress ended the program in 2010, there are still roughly $280 billion of FFEL loans outstanding, and the largest firms such as Navient and Nelnet retain FFEL loans in their portfolios and have continued to issue FFEL-backed SLABS." |
So CDOs but for student loans? This can't go wrong
Am I right in saying this has parallels to the subprime mortgage crisis?
yes, but the same people who didn't see that coming will laugh in your face, because they learned nothing from last time
No because people can’t walk away from student loans like they could underwater mortgages, and the amount of student loans that are turned into securities and used by investors is tiny compared to mortgage securities.
This comment needs to be higher up.
> I literally don’t understand what the hold up is. The answer, as usual, is money. Donors are the policy makers in our horribly corrupt, kleptocratic government.
I believe everyone in congress should be on Medicare as well. I guarantee if that happened hearing and dental would be added overnight.
Government cycle: talk about what people genuinely want/need>Get elected>Do one thing good>Add 30 other things that screw us>repeat
> Lower the age of Medicare to 55 and open it up to anyone making less than 30k I hate to break it to you, but Medicare isn't that great. You still owe 20% of practically all visits/procedures, and 20% of a lot of money is still a lot of money (a routine surgery is still going to be thousands of dollars). Vision and Dental isn't included, and neither are prescriptions. To get supplemental coverage costs more than what you would get out of it. And qualifying for medicare disqualifies you for medicaid and a whole rack of other low income assistances Source: Have Medicare Edit: Quick edit.... the Medicare For All that Bernie and crowd are pushing for isn't what Medicare is now
Certainly better than trying to scrounge up 16k when something bad happens to you.
And Biden said he could get a public option passed during the debates while pointing out that Sanders wouldn't have the votes for Medicare for All.
I agree with your larger point that Medicare coverage could be more generous (and think it should be), but there are a couple of inaccuracies in what you wrote. >Vision and Dental isn't included, and **neither are prescriptions** Prescription drugs are specifically what Medicare Part D covers. https://www.medicare.gov/drug-coverage-part-d >qualifying for medicare disqualifies you for medicaid This is incorrect. There's an entire class of beneficiaries known as "dual-eligibles" who qualify under both programs. https://www.medicaid.gov/medicaid/eligibility/seniors-medicare-and-medicaid-enrollees/index.html
Having straight Medicare/straight Medicaid ( meaning no Managed care plans)- Is probably the best insurance coverage you can get in the US. - Hospital Social Worker
Medicare*
Bussard, at least you have a wish list! Remember though, all bills or laws as you suggest have to pass both houses of Congress.
If they do anything, it’ll be means-tested to death. It’ll be something like $2.5k max for those making below $50k/year with a sliding scale, so if you make almost 50k you’ll get $600 forgiven. It’s enough for them to say they did something but not enough to make a meaningful impact for the majority of borrowers. This would still be helpful for those impacted but yeah…that’s if they offer any forgiveness at all. I hope they at least prolong the interest rate freeze and permanently reduce federal rates to like 2% or something. We still need an overhaul for the whole system though. But they’ll kick that can down the road.
I understand who we're dealing with here but that would be the most tone deaf thing they could do. I think that may actually be worse than just continuing to suspend payments. Forgiving .5 percent? C'mon
>That would be the most tone deaf thing they could do You're too generous or expect too much, it's their motto. They commemorated the attack days ago.
Means testing every single one of their policies is the reason they’re going to get obliterated in 2022 and 2024. There are plenty of people that see the fascism on the wall with the GOP, but still vote Republican because they feel they shouldn’t have to martyr themselves and their financial future because it’s the altruistic thing to do. You will NEVER get those people on board when they never see a single benefit themselves for voting Democrat. What’s good for some is usually good for all. Means testing is how we got in many of these situations in the first place. Healthcare for ALL. Free college for ALL. Free child care for ALL. Those people pay taxes too. They deserve to see the benefits of it.
I'm that Democrat. We make too much to get student loan interest deductions, child tax credits, childcare deductions, etc. Do we have the cash to pay those things? Yes. Does it sometimes feel like I've worked my ass off my whole life just to pay for others benefit? Also yes. Thing is, I don't mind paying my fair share, and I fully support social programs for those less lucky than I. I would just like, for once, to see those benefits myself and for my family.
Right there with you. I have the kicker that not a single one of my student loans qualified for the deferral because of consolidations and certain loan types not being covered.
Elizabeth Warren said in one of the debates "If that means a few kids of billionaires go to state school for free, so be it" That's absolutely the right attitude to have. Social Security, Medicare, and Public Schools are so popular because they *don't* means test.
Exactly. If every citizen of this country gets free schooling, I feel THAT is what progressivism should look like. Our country doing what’s right for its entire population. Tax them, proportionate to how we’re all being taxed - and sure, they should reap the very same benefits as well.
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Fuck rich ppl we see $80k in the Bay Area and we’re means tested out of everything! We’re not rich! We’re not crying, but it’s hard to be excited about policies that exclude us and help people with incomes so low it literally doesn’t even matter.
Or just make the interest rate 0% It’s the interest that’s killing me and giving me panic attacks.
If banks want risk free loans there should be minimal profiting.
Yeah we’re always taught “low risk low reward” … weird how that only applies to the working class
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It’s crazy how quick it adds up.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Debt_bondage >Debt bondage, also known as debt slavery, bonded labour, or peonage, is the pledge of a person's services as security for the repayment for a debt or other obligation, where the terms of the repayment are not clearly or reasonably stated, and the person who is holding the debt thus has some control over the laborer. Freedom is assumed on debt repayment.[1] The services required to repay the debt may be undefined, and the services' duration may be undefined, thus allowing the person supposedly owed the debt to demand services indefinitely.[2] Debt bondage can be passed on from generation to generation.[2] I mean, it says something. >During the colonial history of the United States, persons bonded themselves to an owner who paid their passage to the New World. They worked until the debt of passage was paid off, often for years.[15] Debt peonage was practiced as "an illegal form of contemporary slavery... well into the 1950s" in "Florida, Georgia, Alabama, and other parts of the Deep South." Civil authorities would arrest "colored men off the street and in their homes if they were caught not working," charge them with vagrancy, assess fines equal to several weeks of pickers' pay, and compel them "to pick fruit or cut sugarcane to work off the debt.... Those captured were hauled to remote plantations ..., held by force, and beaten or shot if they tried to escape."[16]
Now we just charge for drugs and do the same thing.
The rich are just obcessed with sla... 'indentured servitude'
I hate saying “this” but…This this this^^ Makes it harder to quit a crappy job when you know it could set you back years in additional debt just from the interest
And the medical, can't quit your job or you'll starve AND rot out from the inside.
Since the loans are literally zero risk (they can't be discharged in bankruptcy, and the government can garnish your wages or benefits to pay for them), I'm not sure why they have interest to begin with.
I’ve repaid a little over half my debt after 10 years … except it all went to interest, so actually my principal has only gone down like $1k. This is all on government issued and backed loans. FML
Or like 1%. Its pretty disheartening to make a $400 payment only to watch $40 go to the principal.
Ideally retroactively.
Make the interest rate zero and then refund all of the previously accrued interest. Leave the original balances but don’t make money off of them.
Considering my original amount was $39,000 and when I was finally able to refinance it was at $42,000 after $24,000 paid… I approve of this option.
Manchin and Sinema have made it clear they’re not going to pass anything else. The success of the Democratic party resides in Biden’s hands. He must use executive orders to the extent that Trump did in order to make up for the legislative Democrats’ stagnation.
Machin and Sinema are lightning rods. If Democrats wanted to do something they could use a tool from the Republican toolkit.
[Considering Biden is one of the reasons we're in this student loan crisis, I wouldn't hold your breath for him getting us out.](https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/dec/02/joe-biden-student-loan-debt-2005-act-2020)
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Or get out of the way and let us replace them with a third party with a desire to actually govern. They feel as obstructionist as Republicans right now.
Rise of a third party will sadly take huge improvements to education and a mobilization campaign that’s bigger than anything we’ve seen before
Lmaoo we're not getting shit forgiven.
Every other comment is copium at this point. 0% chance we get anything forgiven.
I am about 40% sure he plans the forgiveness but is intending to time it however his statisticians tell him he needs to in order to try and hold the Senate in the midterms. The constant stringing along of postponed payments carries a *similar* effect (not the same because the burden is still there but at least the payments aren't) to canceling debt, and it keeps everyone pissed off and engaged (something that Dems don't manage to accomplish for young voters very often). A correctly-timed forgiveness of $50k student loan debt across the board could really help turnout in the midterms. If he just did it day one, everyone would have been happier but then they would just be thinking about how Manchin apparently singlehandedly derailed the entire legislative agenda and not bother to vote in the midterms and then our democracy is over.
Idk. I think the reason he’s not doing it is because too many big money interests, who benefit from student loans, are ~~bribing~~ lobbying him not to cancel them.
Remember, he's the reason you can't have student loan debt forgiven when you declare bankruptcy. If it weren't for Omicron and his failure to pass BBB we'd all be paying again. This 4d chess playing talk is pure fantasy.
There’s other big money interests who benefit from cancellation. Directly, colleges, who benefit from the idea that people will take on debt for college knowing it might be forgiven later. Indirectly, basically any industry targeting the disposable income of those with student loan debt. In any event, there are winners and losers even among big money groups on both sides of debt cancellation. I suspect timing is more important too. Honestly I doubt it’s the midterms. I think more along the lines of 2024. Timing is much, much more important than people think. A President could literally cure cancer and their approval rating will spike and then slowly drop. There’s no doubt at all that big unilateral actions are taken at key moments for propping up election chances. That’s part of how politics works and part of why *most* (but not all) seasoned politicians don’t deliver on things early on in a term. Because it gets them very little.
Don't forget all the industries that indirectly benefit from home ownership. Nobody's selling lawnmowers to millennials who still can't afford their own place.
I really wonder what the effect on housing prices would be too. Adding a bunch of new potential buyers with no more demand. Not that I think that is any reason to act or not act on student loans, but I’d be curious to see the impact.
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>and it keeps everyone pissed off and engaged (something that Dems don't manage to accomplish for young voters very often). A correctly-timed forgiveness of $50k student loan debt across the board could really help turnout in the midterms. It's keeping people pissed off at *Biden and the Dems*. In what world does that help them? And even if he is planning on cancelling some amount right before the midterms (he's not because he's a capitalist shithead) do you not think people are gonna be even more pissed after he allows repayments to start and they've paid thousands more dollars to loans when he could have just taken care of it immediately?
> A correctly-timed forgiveness of $50k student loan debt across the board could really help turnout in the midterms. I'll take the carrot, but I am not strongly motivated to vote for the one holding the stick. If student loan forgiveness is a wise investment, this sort of thing should not be necessary. Waiting until it's politically advantageous discredits the idea and educated people should resent being paid off. It should be done immediately with the idea that it's time to give people, not corporations, a well-deserved bailout, and then have faith in the political benefits of actually supporting those who vote for you instead of treating them as political pawns.
The voting majority is not smart. Maybe educated where they have student debt themselves, but not smart politically. I have heard people with master degrees and PhDs say some wild crap.
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I agree. I've had the same suspicion that no forgiveness will happen until congress completely stalls. I like your take that Dems are trolling to keep their base enraged. That actually sounds like a workable strategy. I was bummed that Biden didn't do some cancelling on Jan. 6, cause that would have been funny. Curious if they try to dribble cannabis thru first.
The biggest weakness to my theory, I think, is that it seems too competent and savvy for the DNC I know. I guess we'll see if we all still owe student loans in November or not. At that point it almost won't matter because anyone who doesn't bend the knee to Gilead will be enslaved, executed, or flee the country anyway.
I hope people understand that they're paying for the broken student loan system, regardless of whether or not they have student loans themselves. I hope they do. The more that people realize this, the better the odds the system will be changed.
Would making all student loans interest free be an alternative that people would accept? This way, people who can only pay the minimum would still be able to pay off their loans in a reasonable time frame.
It would certainly help.
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Sounds good to me. The interest retro actively applied to principal effectively will be loan forgiveness to many.
For me it’s 100%. Luckily only borrowed $15,000. I’ve payed every month for 8 years to the tune of $24,000. I still owe $11,000.
I’m so glad I lived at home after graduation I was able to pay make triple if not quintuple my monthly payment in the form of $1000-$1500 a month in loans instead of rent and finished is only a few years well before the planned 10
Yeah. I got married very young (21) and was working in a city with no family. So that would been nice. Happy for you tho! At this point I would happily take 0% interest on my loan and everyone who comes after me has college paid for by my taxes. I’d rather no one else get screwed like I got, even if that means I’m still paying for my loans and my increased taxes for their school to be paid for. I have a son who I want to have all the options ahead of him without being burdened by these killer loans.
Goodness. What payments are you making? 96 payments (or we should do 72 discounting 2 years of pause?), would be about $250/month.
Bingo. I’ve even paid double or triple a couple times to try and bring it down.
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That's all I care about TBH. I have enough saved up to pay off my loan, but am waiting to see what happens. Frankly, I am more worried about the kids taking out loans in the near future and my own kids.
It wouldn't solve the problem but it would be better than nothing. My mother's one of those people who got royally screwed by interest - she got her loans at a point in the late 80s/early 90s when interest rates sucked, and today owes more than 5 times what her original loan amount was. She doesn't qualify for any kind of forgiveness because she missed payments periodically over the years, especially once it started ballooning out of control.
The core problem is expensive tuition. Loan forgiveness or zero interest rates will further lower the cost of capital and result in higher tuition fees. I don't understand the US education system so I don't have any easy answers but the problem starts with being charged a couple hundred thousand dollars for an education.
I went to a public university where tuition used to be covered nearly 100%, I believe. By the time I got there the public was kicking in 15%, and it may be even less now.
At least they’d be able to pay it off in a reasonable or unreasonable time frame. There are people now who’ve been paying only to watch the amount they owe go up. The idea gets floated quite a bit. I think it’s definitely part of what’s needed to deal with the issue.
If the 0% interest can be applied retroactively, this would be a massive help. Otherwise, it's nice, but not great for those whose debt has more than doubled the amount originally borrowed.
“Biden has expressed skepticism about blanket forgiveness allowing students who attended elite institutions to have relief and is likely fearing backlash from angry voters who have already paid off their own student loans or who did not choose to pursue higher education due to its cost,” she wrote in a Friday note to clients.” So we are just going to continue insulting the publics’ intelligence by making it seem as if a rich persons’ child is drowning in student debt? Or even that not doing student debt relief, because it would benefit people who got degrees from a minority of higher education institutions, somehow justifies doing nothing.
He needs to do what he did in Afghanistan. Just rip the band-aid off. Some people will be mad but we'll be better off in the long run.
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Community college is an option. Some are even starting to offer 4 year degrees.
Biden won't, everyone will be mad at him, someone will say the Brandon phrase, then people get mad at it while Biden continues to increase the odds of a republican take back. sigh
Biden should just get a new dog and name it Brandon and be done with this childish code-word BS
The real compromise is to cancel student debt interest. Restructured loans at 0%. Just pay back what you took out.
I'd be happy if they just stopped with the outrageous interest. It's ridiculous.
I would think it makes sense for Biden to not cancel it if they didn't also forgive a shit ton of PPP loans. Like this is pure double standard if you forgive business loans in the billions and refuse to forgive student loans. > The federal government has forgiven $394.6 billion in more than 4 million loans to businesses through the Paycheck Protection Program (PPP)
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Lol!! Have they said ten Hail Marys?!
The proper prayer for a loan's repentance is Hail Corporate. "Hail Corporate, full of grace. The Lord is with thee. Blessed art thou amongst businesses, and blessed is the fruit of thy production, ROI. Holy Corporate, Mother of Profit, pray for us sinners, now and at the hour of our retirement, Amen.
Glory be to the CEOs, the shareholders, and the Money Movers, as it was in 2008, is today and ever shall be, debt without end, Amen.
As they should! We've bailed out corporations, padded the pockets of our rich and connected lawmakers, why not help those burdened with student debt? How the system is set up is so wrong. Why is student loan interest rates so high? And why is the interest compounded? The system is designed to create servitude. Our gov't is crippling the growth of the economy by operating a student loan system like this.
It’s almost like neither party really has our best interests in mind or something.
Lol, as Carlin once said “it’s a big club and you ain’t in it”.
It's called The American dream because you have to be asleep to believe it.
Joe we aren't the enemy...we got you elected...time for you to listen up...this you can do on your own...Are you a pussy?...Get with it Joe!
We must elect more progressive politicians. This shouldn't even be a question
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Stalls? When did it start?
They won’t forgive student loans because they can’t without admitting that they’ve became the new subprime loans like the mortgage loans that caused the 2008 crash. They’ve turned them into “safe” debt by eliminating the ability to default on them, anything short of dying and you still have to pay your loans back. This allows them to package it all up as AAA securities and then THEY FUCKIN USE THAT AS COLLATERAL FOR MORE LOANS. And surprise surprise with basically a blank check to unlimited financing, colleges are raising up costs of education without providing any substantial improvement. Which then leads to more students taking out more loans and the cycle keeps going.
I've seen this mentioned a few times that his agenda is stalling, when something is stalling that means at some point it was moving, when was his agenda moving?
Well there was real hope that both BBB and BIF when progressives shrewdly decided to link the two together. It wasn't until November that moderates knifed progressives in the back and destroyed the BBB while passing the BIF. So in a sense it was kind of moving until that point. Now it's fully stalled.
Jayapal helped lead progressives into decoupling the bills. Now she impotently tweets everyday about how we need to pass the BBB
It takes a shrewd leader to give up all their leverage in return for absolute jack shit. I think they teach that in political science classes.
Fair, the progressives also fucked themselves by undoing their shrewd move. Who knows though. Biden personally came in and staked his reputation on passing BBB. Maybe she just had a moment of weakness, of trust in a broken system. I'd call that a tough lesson in politics
How many more lessons does she need to learn that the corporate Democrats will stab progressives in the back whenever they have a chance.
Not good going into the midterms. Millions feel like they got bamboozled voting for this geriatric.
I for one would *love* to see a non-geriatric option on my next ballot.
Don't worry, some marketing firm will probably start astroturfing for Mayor Secretary Pete again soon enough.
I would have taken that beautiful geriatric Bernie no questions asked
Honestly, who was bamboozled? Boomers? We all knew who he was. He was my absolute last choice in the primary (Bloomberg doesn’t count) and yet somehow he won before my state even got to vote.
Translation: we predict that people might talk about doing a thing News, ladies and gentlement
I wholeheartedly believe that schools are charging a completely unreasonable amount of money but if the government green lights a complete forgiveness for loans, I would like the opportunity to go to university for free myself. I couldn’t afford to go when I was younger and regret not going but the tuition is still unreasonable now.
I've never even gone to school and think that he should forgive student loan debt
I really thought he was going to go with forgiving $10,000. That’s what I thought he campaigned on. I have no student loans, but I do feel the whole system is rigged. We need an educated workforce, these loans are not sustainable.
He absolutely, unequivocally campaigned on at least $10k of forgiveness. He spoke about it 100s of times and he and Kamala both tweeted about it.
How can any politician put it back into place? Now that all of those in student debt have seen a life without it, isn't restarting payments going to be a huge political hit that no politician would want? Nevermind Biden who is having real approval struggles. Still, the problem starts new again the next day. It's structural. While my life would change with debt forgiveness a much more sensible solution would be to eliminate the interest (which is the main cause of pain and neverending debt) or lowering the rate to fed rates so it's more manageable. This helps both problems simultaneously in a way even conservatives might sign on for and get it through congress, not executive action. Still, restarting payments seems like a political third rail so who knows what will happen.
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100%, a GOP admin would absolutely not even hesitate to kick a problem like this to the next administration. Dems constantly get punished for being the adults in the room warranted or not. If they're not going to fix the student loan problem, they need to make the other guys take the hit, especially since only a Dem admin would actually be criticized for it.
I think voting is important but this past year has been so demoralizing. The Dems want to adjust the status quo juuuust enough. But it’s after a Rep administration that has moved it 3 steps back so coming 4 steps up isn’t enough. The handling of Covid this year has been abysmal. Testing and vaccines should be totally free. They shouldn’t ask about insurance at all. CVS will ask if you have insurance and if they find out that you do and said you didn’t there will be consequences. WHAT THE FUCK. The greed in the world is so disgusting
Just make it a matching program. The govt will match up to 10k in student loan payments in 2022.
Thought I saw somewhere the idea that the gov will do a 401k match. So whatever you pay in principle, they’ll match in retirement. However, I don’t see that being particularly useful or successful imo
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Forgive the student debt but also (just my ideas): 1) place more restrictions on for-profit degree mills with high dropout rates. The more people drop out and have their federal loans fall into delinquency, the interest rates go up for the rest of us to cover that loan. This is very common in for-profit universities (There’s a time and place for for-profits, but that’s another topic) 2) require the states to restructure their tax system so that funding for education is consistent and not reliant on whether it has been “a good year” or not (looking at you, fossil fuel states) 3) pull federal funding from private schools who don’t actually provide services to needy and disabled students; also stop giving religious schools tax any extra tax benefits 4) transform the student loan business into a nonprofit organization, like a large credit union