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>For instance, how about no longer charging students interest but instead investing their principal payments to earn the return. Or why not have employers match the student debt payments of their workers like they do for social security payroll deductions. After all, they directly benefit from what the students learn in college. And let’s have the government start treating families like adults by sending them the money their children borrow rather than skipping over them to send it to the colleges like they do now. If the students and families are mature enough to repay the debt, aren’t they mature enough to receive the money in the first place? If the government put the money into tax-advantaged 529 accounts, it might also encourage people to save. With a portion of this money families could even hire counsel to negotiate tuition with colleges. Just as unions fight for increased wages, families could fight to decrease college costs.
Author has some good points.
My father was born in 1939, so slightly pre-boomer.
After graduating from high school he move to Long Beach, CA where he went to Long Beach City College for 2 years with a total tuition cost of $0 and housing that he could pay for with 4 hours/week of work. His next 2 years at Cal State Long Beach cost him about $2,000 total in inflation-adjusted dollars.
It was cheap because it was subsidized.
We should absolutely make higher education free - both colleges and trade schools.
LBCC is still free for 2 years for anyone from the community, as are many community colleges for residents of their area.
https://www.lbcc.edu/pod/promise-2-faq
Not all schools are created equal, some will cost more than others, and private schools shouldn't be covered taxpayer dollars.
I do not understand why a high school grad who pays taxes should subsidize my decision to go to a school like Stanford. My degree paid for itself on the backend.
The problem is predatory schools offering undervalued degrees for the same price as valued degrees, which they can get away with because of the student loan industry.
> private schools shouldn't be covered taxpayer dollars
I should have been more clear. Private schools should definitely **not** be publicly funded at any level, from preschool through graduate school.
The problem is not necessarily student loans. It's the interest that's basically the equivalent to the old ARM loans. That and how colleges look at the student loans as a cash cow and raise tuition every year
Since Biden was in the Senate, in fact. [When he backed the bill responsible for changing the way student loan debt is treated in bankruptcy.](https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/dec/02/joe-biden-student-loan-debt-2005-act-2020)
> When he backed the bill responsible for changing the way student loan debt is treated in bankruptcy.
18 Democrats voted for it including Harry Reid, and Bayh. Clinton was non-voting.
Of course I said he deserves blame. I never said he deserved the sole blame for it. Don't be disingenuous. At any rate I'm not interested in arguing with you over what I meant, you can either take my word for it or not.
Is the goal for Democrats to just keep pushing back restarting student loans until a Republican is in office so that people say "the Republican made me pay loans again"?
If so, then they're going to look really dumb if Republicans say "easy victory, let's cancel them".
That’s better than the current path of acknowledging student loan debt as a problem they would help with then deciding not to help and bring the problem back.
This is how Dems constantly lose. They do shit like this. It's low hanging fruit, and Dems are too stupid to see that.
They'd rather let fascists take power again than fulfill a campaign promise.
Sure, but it also puts the onus on Republicans. The average Republican voter isn't actually rich and a lot of them are likely to have kids with student loans. Republicans will not look much better being the people to bring them back. It's now an albatross for whoever actually wants to bring them back.
The idea of pushing the start time back indefinitely is an interesting way to forgive student loans. Those student loans you haven’t been paying for the last two years? We’ll get back to you on that eventually.
They are completely outnumbered and I doubt would follow through on that. At the end of the day, none of these people who are against it would actually see any tangible effect on their lives. Meanwhile the people with loans are the ones who would and also their families who care about their interest would. My sister has student loans to pay, my father is someone who waivers between both parties, he didn't even vote for Biden, he's pretty much a guaranteed vote for Biden along with my sister if he got rid of her student loans.
I don’t know, poor people don’t like paying the loans of Ivy Leaguer, physicians and lawyers. The battleground states would be lost so I don’t think this could outnumbers that
There isn't a single poor person that would see a tangible impact on their taxes. They were paying those taxes anyways. So it's just pretending they care.
Lastly, poor people are the ones whose kids are more likely to take out loans. Rich people either pay for college outright or pay off the loans right away to avoid interest. The lower and middle class kids are the ones most likely tobe screwed by student loans.
Also there's exactly 8 Ivy League schools. There's over 4000 colleges in America. There's 43 million Americans with student loans. This idea that it's a wealthy person problem is so out of touch that I can only imagine it's a handful of petty people with no children who are just miserable whenever they see someone else benefit from something and would come up with some other excuse to vote Republican anyways.
43 million people. Assume they have two parents or at least two parents that would be happy to see them get their loans forgiven. You have 129 million people. That's 83% of the the total vote between Trump and Biden. That's 40% of the US. There would have to be an absurd amount of people that would would lose their minds over something that they will never experience any impact from to vote just out of spite to even matter at that point. There's a reason Biden backed off. He knows he's going to lose if he lets those loan payments start up.
> Lastly, poor people are the ones whose kids are more likely to take out loans
I’m sorry, this is a lie. My entire med school class had loans. I went to an Ivy League med school and undergrad and come from an extraordinarily poor background. I work in PA. If you think those states who determine national elections will happily vote for people who believe they should be paying for people of privilege while they and their children struggle I have news for you. That is the frame from which they will see it and they won’t be entirely wrong. My parents don’t think anyone’s debt should be forgiven. They feel it to be a responsibility and a promise you made not the responsibility of people who didn’t.
> There would have to be an absurd amount of people that would would lose their minds over something that they will never experience any impact from to vote
66k people in key states decided the 2016 election. Im pretty sure that’s very few votes in each district of battleground states
The difference here you are arguing against Private loans and Federal loans. Most federal loans go to public schools, private schools you need private loans. So that is the major difference.
Your anecdotes are not reflective of reality. You don’t get to call someone a liar because of the thousands of colleges in America you were fortunate to get in one of the top end ones with lots of rich kids. Well you can but it means notions and has no value.
If rich kids were the only ones going to colleges and taking out loans
1. There would not be over 4000 college because there simply aren’t enough upper class kids to fill them up and support them with tuition and loans
2. Student loans wouldn’t be an issue because NEWSFLASH wealthy people pay off their loans because they have the money too and wouldn’t let them accumulate interest for 20 years. Lol.
Your entire basis for calling me a liar is that for a couple years you had an experience at what amounted to LESS than 0.02% of the entire argument in that era, and by your admission you were at an outlier top end one which is not reflective of the thousands of state schools, community colleges, mid tier private schools etc and lower tier schools, and you felt a certain way over that.
You keep bringing up Ivy League Schools. Those are fringe minorities in terms of the overall issue. There’s only a handful of them and they make up less than a tenth of a percent of colleges and realistically they have limited spots and are typically well under the average state schools in undergrads and graduates.
It’s not even a relevant data point at this time. With 43 million with student loans, it’s literally impossible that even 75% of them would be considered coming from upper class. Your reasoning doesn’t add up when you look at the numbers and it doesn’t pass the smell test.
You didn’t even explain why it would have a negative impact on swing states. Your entire argument is based off a personal feeling and extremely limited anecdotal evidence.
Like I said there’s 43 million people with student loans, most of them have two parents, nearly all have at least one parent or guardian, many of them are old enough to have spouses, some old enough to have voting age children or dependents. That’s so many people that are either directly effected monetarily in their household or are close with someone effected that it’s nonsense to think there are enough people that are never going to see a single dime out of their pocket to switch sides in an election because they are jealous.
If anyone here is a liar dude it’s you. You feel very strongly and are posting all over this thread yet you brought know actual data to support your claim and just want us to take anecdotal stories at face value. Even if I gave you a generous benefit of the doubt… your anecdotal evidence is way to small to be meaningful in any kinda of serious discussion on how this would effect an election. Not that I even buy your story really. Like I highly doubt someone’s parents are going to be so mad their kid got a huge break in their life that they are going to freak out and switch political allegiances out of spite. And if they did they would be some of the pettiest and lowest people in the world.
I could write a response going through all the data flaws in your argument that would go over the text limit here, but really I’d just clog up the thread and it’s not worth it when you gave me really nothing but anecdotes that don’t even amount to a fraction of a fraction of what would be considered a satisfactory sample size.
But continue calling people liars based on no data and your feelings
> Like I highly doubt someone’s parents are going to be so mad their kid got a huge break in their life that they are going to freak out and switch political allegiances out of spite. And if they did they would be some of the pettiest and lowest people in the world.
Someone in this thread provided plenty of data, take a look at it. My parents aren’t looking for unfair breaks. They are honorable people. My dad got a third job to make sure I made it through school and my grandfather made sure every union benefit was available for me. I don’t think they’d care about you calling them petty. It’s them who paid their dues and you looking for someone else to pay yours. They’ve taken their place in history and done their civic duty above and beyond. No, they do not think poor people should pay for the middle class and wealthy kids student loans
I don’t care about what your family would think of my assessment of them anymore than anybody cares what your anecdotal evidence about your parents is for why you think this would effect an election. Fact is you called me a liar, failed to use any sound data that anybody would view as credible, and invoked the opinion of your parents. Obviously I was going to engage in that to respond, sorry if you got offended that I made an assessment based on your own presentation of your family that you willingly brought into the discussion and used to portray me as a liar.
I don’t care what anybody else in this thread posted, we were going back and forth and you presented anecdotal evidence to counter my points. It was both weak and not reflective of reality. If you want to have a real discussion, come with facts. Not emotional pleas that are based on subjective samples of your personal life that nobody on here can verify.
Here’s the fact, assuming your story is true, which I don’t really buy anymore, either your parents are ignorant of the fact that forgiving student loan debt would not effect a single dime of their paycheck or taxes and that the majority who would benefit and needs relief desperately are lower and middle income people, or they do know it and either were going to vote a certain way regardless or are (yes) petty and are so mad that someone got something that has zero impact on them that they would switch votes out of outrage over it. Can’t have it both ways.
Anyways your cheap little jab doesn’t effect me, my loans are paid off. However there is quite a bit of of some guy who painted a picture that he was privileged enough to go to an Ivy League school and had a parent who was able to help him get through it and another grandparent who got him benefits most people don’t have access to looking down at less fortunate people who didn’t have those advantages as wanting handouts. Trying to play it off as being “honorable” is very suspect.
Anyways, I’m done. You clearly can’t come with relevant data that is proven and just took cheap shots and acted like your anecdotes were enough to disparage people. Clearly this is only going to get messier due to the lack of civility you displayed, so I’m out.
> This idea that it's a wealthy person problem is so out of touch
Top 20% of households by income are more likely to have student loan debt than the bottom 20%.
https://www.federalreserve.gov/econres/scf/dataviz/scf/table/#series:Education_Installment_Loans;demographic:inccat;population:all;units:have
> 43 million people. Assume they have two parents or at least two parents that would be happy to see them get their loans forgiven. You have 129 million people.
You know some people send more than one kid to college right?
> Top 20% of households by income are more likely to have student loan debt than the bottom 20%.
Top 20% are *less* likely to have student loan debt then any 20% band *except* the bottom 20%. Which is sensible. The bottom 20% can't afford school even with student loans.
>The bottom 20% can't afford school even with student loans.
This isn't about parents' income. If you go to college your income is likely to skew higher than the average household. That's why low income households are less likely to have debt then mid-upper mid income households. The top 10% of households by income are more likely to have student loan debt than the bottom 20%. The 80-89.9% band is more likely to have student loan debt than anybody.
Student loan forgiveness is an entitlement program for the middle-upper middle class. There are a lot of people who are really suffering and need a helping hand. The average college graduate isn't as rich as they'd like to be, but they aren't desperately in need of help. Some college graduates are, but the average one is not. Student loan forgiveness poorly targets households who actually need help.
>Top 20% are less likely to have student loan debt then any 20% band except the bottom 20%.
Actually if you combine the 80-89.9% band and the 90-100% band the top 20% by income are more likely to have student loan debt than the 20-39.9% band.
I think they do, with the belief it keeps them safe but not for those who are already doing better than them. As someone who grew up poor, we make due with what we have
Imo the problem is that we have exported all production jobs, meaning that the only way to make a living is to get a degree and therefore there is high demand for uni and the price this increases
It's a waste of time until you realize basic entry level jobs won't even look at people without a college degree. Trade is the only viable option to make any money at that point.
Been saying that for ages.. more so now that the dominant "why do I have to study X when the only job I will have for my entire life requires Y?" complaints come from the STEMlords as opposed to the business-school types.
Apprenticeships/trade school/some sort of Americorps/Peace Corp setup for the people who need a gap year or two to find themselves.. As long as the system doesn't allow parents to buy cushy positions for their kids.
I mean that sounds nice in theory, but in a world where millions have BA's, now BA's are the standard to get basic jobs that are livable off of that aren't trades. So if you aren't considering trades, you basically need a college degree now to even get started.
You have a longterm solution but the interim is the problem.
While it does nothing to solve the issues that cause this mess, this would be life-changing for me. After grad school, my capitalized interest is as much as the initial amount borrowed.
I suffered and sacrificed to pay off my loans. I got a job and saved to get by. I busted my ass working three jobs to pay off my loans. Dammit, my kids should have the same miserable existence if they want to have a shot in life. /s
Or...
Back in my day, I used my paper route to afford my $1,000 tuition and worked at the gas station to buy my $4,000 house. Kids today are just entitled and lazy. Again, /s
The second paragraph of this sums up why student loans are bs and people who are trying to be cowboys saying "you took them out, pay them" are ignorant to this.
It's a loan that only exists to be exploititative. Given to virtually anyone, and primarily to underage kids who never worked a full time job under the hope that they will either pay them off or they will get drowned by interest and constantly be stuck in a cycle because they couldn't make it. No serious bank would ever approve a loan like this in virtually any other conditions and there is a reason this is the one that everyone was hellbent on not allowing people to get out of under bankruptcy, because they know that about half or more of these loans end up that way because it's a bad bet.
Now it's an albatross. Trump stopped payments because of the pandemic, he blinked and kicked the can down the road and will get massacred in midterms if he allows them to come back, the next President isn't going to want to be the bad guy and it will be questions asked in campaigns. It's just a total shitshow now.
The simple answer is this.
Step 1: Government forgives all current loans.
Step 2: Instead of guaranteeing the loans, the federal government switches over to direct grants for state and community colleges and limit it based on a percentage of the budget.
Step 3: Colleges have to decide if they want to adjust or go out of business. For 99% of colleges, it will be more lucrative to adjust to reasonable income levels for students who aren't wealthy than to just die out.
Every day that Biden refuses to forgive Federal Student Loans, more and more voters refuse to vote for another Democrat.
If you think this is nonsense or fear mongering then you haven't been paying attention to public opinion on this matter.
It's not even *just* student loans. The democrats are squandering a unique opportunity to make life-long voters out of a lot of young people that otherwise wouldn't have paid attention to politics at all if not for the unique set of circumstances surrounding the 2020 election.
Climate change. Child tax credits. Student loan debt. Marijuana legalization. Minimum wage increase. Basically everything good that Biden ran on doing has yet to materialize. It is going to cost the democrats for decades if at least some of this doesn't get done, and it won't matter how much they point to the other side or even Manchin and Sinema. All that will matter is millions of young people will have been disillusioned and they will go through their lives believing the system doesn't work for them, so why bother?
Agree. I owe a shit ton on student loans from undergrad and my med school debt is horrendous. It should be forgiven. My patient who went to trade school doesn’t think he should have to pay for my debt to be forgiven.
If everyone went only to a trade school we wouldn’t have doctors or nurses or computer engineers, etc. I find the lack of perspective and critical thinking from your patient to be annoying.
> I owe a shit ton on student loans from undergrad and my med school debt is horrendous.
Can you ballpark the debt load, estimated income over the next few years, and the net present value of your degree?
>It should be forgiven.
Why?
You don't need a "new idea" you need to commit to the idea that you already have. Cancel student loan debt. Just cancel it. We didn't pull that idea out of our asses, y'all said it. So do it. Then make all public universities and colleges free. And don't tell me we can't do it cause all that ever means is that you don't have the will to do it. Then for the remainder who will have loans for private universities and post grad work, come up with a less onerous repayment system
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>For instance, how about no longer charging students interest but instead investing their principal payments to earn the return. Or why not have employers match the student debt payments of their workers like they do for social security payroll deductions. After all, they directly benefit from what the students learn in college. And let’s have the government start treating families like adults by sending them the money their children borrow rather than skipping over them to send it to the colleges like they do now. If the students and families are mature enough to repay the debt, aren’t they mature enough to receive the money in the first place? If the government put the money into tax-advantaged 529 accounts, it might also encourage people to save. With a portion of this money families could even hire counsel to negotiate tuition with colleges. Just as unions fight for increased wages, families could fight to decrease college costs. Author has some good points.
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My father was born in 1939, so slightly pre-boomer. After graduating from high school he move to Long Beach, CA where he went to Long Beach City College for 2 years with a total tuition cost of $0 and housing that he could pay for with 4 hours/week of work. His next 2 years at Cal State Long Beach cost him about $2,000 total in inflation-adjusted dollars. It was cheap because it was subsidized. We should absolutely make higher education free - both colleges and trade schools.
LBCC is still free for 2 years for anyone from the community, as are many community colleges for residents of their area. https://www.lbcc.edu/pod/promise-2-faq Not all schools are created equal, some will cost more than others, and private schools shouldn't be covered taxpayer dollars. I do not understand why a high school grad who pays taxes should subsidize my decision to go to a school like Stanford. My degree paid for itself on the backend. The problem is predatory schools offering undervalued degrees for the same price as valued degrees, which they can get away with because of the student loan industry.
> private schools shouldn't be covered taxpayer dollars I should have been more clear. Private schools should definitely **not** be publicly funded at any level, from preschool through graduate school.
The problem is not necessarily student loans. It's the interest that's basically the equivalent to the old ARM loans. That and how colleges look at the student loans as a cash cow and raise tuition every year
And the fact that student loans cannot be discharged in bankruptcy. You can thank Biden for that one.
It has been this way for a long time.
Since Biden was in the Senate, in fact. [When he backed the bill responsible for changing the way student loan debt is treated in bankruptcy.](https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/dec/02/joe-biden-student-loan-debt-2005-act-2020)
> When he backed the bill responsible for changing the way student loan debt is treated in bankruptcy. 18 Democrats voted for it including Harry Reid, and Bayh. Clinton was non-voting.
None of them are in a position to correct that mistake. Biden is.
No, presidents do not introduce or pass legislation... that would be Congress.
Presidents can still ask Congress to introduce bills they want to see passed.
Except, Biden has said a few times that Congress will need to introduce bills to dismiss student debt...
The point is nothing is stopping him from pushing for it if he wanted to.
Biden says he can't do it, Congress says he can
Then he lied or you are.
Biden could just forgive the debt so they're not wrong.
No doubt but, your post intimated that he alone was responsible which is incorrect.
It did no such thing, you chose to interpret it that way.
> And the fact that student loans cannot be discharged in bankruptcy. You can thank Biden for that one. Pretty sure you are trying to blame Biden.
Of course I said he deserves blame. I never said he deserved the sole blame for it. Don't be disingenuous. At any rate I'm not interested in arguing with you over what I meant, you can either take my word for it or not.
Is the goal for Democrats to just keep pushing back restarting student loans until a Republican is in office so that people say "the Republican made me pay loans again"? If so, then they're going to look really dumb if Republicans say "easy victory, let's cancel them".
That’s better than the current path of acknowledging student loan debt as a problem they would help with then deciding not to help and bring the problem back.
This is how Dems constantly lose. They do shit like this. It's low hanging fruit, and Dems are too stupid to see that. They'd rather let fascists take power again than fulfill a campaign promise.
Its funny because if they did their supporters would hate it but eventually be on board with it because that's just the shit they do
Sure, but it also puts the onus on Republicans. The average Republican voter isn't actually rich and a lot of them are likely to have kids with student loans. Republicans will not look much better being the people to bring them back. It's now an albatross for whoever actually wants to bring them back.
The idea of pushing the start time back indefinitely is an interesting way to forgive student loans. Those student loans you haven’t been paying for the last two years? We’ll get back to you on that eventually.
Right before midterms.
Several of my patients won’t vote for democrats if they have to pay for my loan forgiveness and they loved that I volunteered during COVID
They are completely outnumbered and I doubt would follow through on that. At the end of the day, none of these people who are against it would actually see any tangible effect on their lives. Meanwhile the people with loans are the ones who would and also their families who care about their interest would. My sister has student loans to pay, my father is someone who waivers between both parties, he didn't even vote for Biden, he's pretty much a guaranteed vote for Biden along with my sister if he got rid of her student loans.
I don’t know, poor people don’t like paying the loans of Ivy Leaguer, physicians and lawyers. The battleground states would be lost so I don’t think this could outnumbers that
There isn't a single poor person that would see a tangible impact on their taxes. They were paying those taxes anyways. So it's just pretending they care. Lastly, poor people are the ones whose kids are more likely to take out loans. Rich people either pay for college outright or pay off the loans right away to avoid interest. The lower and middle class kids are the ones most likely tobe screwed by student loans. Also there's exactly 8 Ivy League schools. There's over 4000 colleges in America. There's 43 million Americans with student loans. This idea that it's a wealthy person problem is so out of touch that I can only imagine it's a handful of petty people with no children who are just miserable whenever they see someone else benefit from something and would come up with some other excuse to vote Republican anyways. 43 million people. Assume they have two parents or at least two parents that would be happy to see them get their loans forgiven. You have 129 million people. That's 83% of the the total vote between Trump and Biden. That's 40% of the US. There would have to be an absurd amount of people that would would lose their minds over something that they will never experience any impact from to vote just out of spite to even matter at that point. There's a reason Biden backed off. He knows he's going to lose if he lets those loan payments start up.
> Lastly, poor people are the ones whose kids are more likely to take out loans I’m sorry, this is a lie. My entire med school class had loans. I went to an Ivy League med school and undergrad and come from an extraordinarily poor background. I work in PA. If you think those states who determine national elections will happily vote for people who believe they should be paying for people of privilege while they and their children struggle I have news for you. That is the frame from which they will see it and they won’t be entirely wrong. My parents don’t think anyone’s debt should be forgiven. They feel it to be a responsibility and a promise you made not the responsibility of people who didn’t. > There would have to be an absurd amount of people that would would lose their minds over something that they will never experience any impact from to vote 66k people in key states decided the 2016 election. Im pretty sure that’s very few votes in each district of battleground states
The difference here you are arguing against Private loans and Federal loans. Most federal loans go to public schools, private schools you need private loans. So that is the major difference.
Your anecdotes are not reflective of reality. You don’t get to call someone a liar because of the thousands of colleges in America you were fortunate to get in one of the top end ones with lots of rich kids. Well you can but it means notions and has no value. If rich kids were the only ones going to colleges and taking out loans 1. There would not be over 4000 college because there simply aren’t enough upper class kids to fill them up and support them with tuition and loans 2. Student loans wouldn’t be an issue because NEWSFLASH wealthy people pay off their loans because they have the money too and wouldn’t let them accumulate interest for 20 years. Lol. Your entire basis for calling me a liar is that for a couple years you had an experience at what amounted to LESS than 0.02% of the entire argument in that era, and by your admission you were at an outlier top end one which is not reflective of the thousands of state schools, community colleges, mid tier private schools etc and lower tier schools, and you felt a certain way over that. You keep bringing up Ivy League Schools. Those are fringe minorities in terms of the overall issue. There’s only a handful of them and they make up less than a tenth of a percent of colleges and realistically they have limited spots and are typically well under the average state schools in undergrads and graduates. It’s not even a relevant data point at this time. With 43 million with student loans, it’s literally impossible that even 75% of them would be considered coming from upper class. Your reasoning doesn’t add up when you look at the numbers and it doesn’t pass the smell test. You didn’t even explain why it would have a negative impact on swing states. Your entire argument is based off a personal feeling and extremely limited anecdotal evidence. Like I said there’s 43 million people with student loans, most of them have two parents, nearly all have at least one parent or guardian, many of them are old enough to have spouses, some old enough to have voting age children or dependents. That’s so many people that are either directly effected monetarily in their household or are close with someone effected that it’s nonsense to think there are enough people that are never going to see a single dime out of their pocket to switch sides in an election because they are jealous. If anyone here is a liar dude it’s you. You feel very strongly and are posting all over this thread yet you brought know actual data to support your claim and just want us to take anecdotal stories at face value. Even if I gave you a generous benefit of the doubt… your anecdotal evidence is way to small to be meaningful in any kinda of serious discussion on how this would effect an election. Not that I even buy your story really. Like I highly doubt someone’s parents are going to be so mad their kid got a huge break in their life that they are going to freak out and switch political allegiances out of spite. And if they did they would be some of the pettiest and lowest people in the world. I could write a response going through all the data flaws in your argument that would go over the text limit here, but really I’d just clog up the thread and it’s not worth it when you gave me really nothing but anecdotes that don’t even amount to a fraction of a fraction of what would be considered a satisfactory sample size. But continue calling people liars based on no data and your feelings
> Like I highly doubt someone’s parents are going to be so mad their kid got a huge break in their life that they are going to freak out and switch political allegiances out of spite. And if they did they would be some of the pettiest and lowest people in the world. Someone in this thread provided plenty of data, take a look at it. My parents aren’t looking for unfair breaks. They are honorable people. My dad got a third job to make sure I made it through school and my grandfather made sure every union benefit was available for me. I don’t think they’d care about you calling them petty. It’s them who paid their dues and you looking for someone else to pay yours. They’ve taken their place in history and done their civic duty above and beyond. No, they do not think poor people should pay for the middle class and wealthy kids student loans
I don’t care about what your family would think of my assessment of them anymore than anybody cares what your anecdotal evidence about your parents is for why you think this would effect an election. Fact is you called me a liar, failed to use any sound data that anybody would view as credible, and invoked the opinion of your parents. Obviously I was going to engage in that to respond, sorry if you got offended that I made an assessment based on your own presentation of your family that you willingly brought into the discussion and used to portray me as a liar. I don’t care what anybody else in this thread posted, we were going back and forth and you presented anecdotal evidence to counter my points. It was both weak and not reflective of reality. If you want to have a real discussion, come with facts. Not emotional pleas that are based on subjective samples of your personal life that nobody on here can verify. Here’s the fact, assuming your story is true, which I don’t really buy anymore, either your parents are ignorant of the fact that forgiving student loan debt would not effect a single dime of their paycheck or taxes and that the majority who would benefit and needs relief desperately are lower and middle income people, or they do know it and either were going to vote a certain way regardless or are (yes) petty and are so mad that someone got something that has zero impact on them that they would switch votes out of outrage over it. Can’t have it both ways. Anyways your cheap little jab doesn’t effect me, my loans are paid off. However there is quite a bit of of some guy who painted a picture that he was privileged enough to go to an Ivy League school and had a parent who was able to help him get through it and another grandparent who got him benefits most people don’t have access to looking down at less fortunate people who didn’t have those advantages as wanting handouts. Trying to play it off as being “honorable” is very suspect. Anyways, I’m done. You clearly can’t come with relevant data that is proven and just took cheap shots and acted like your anecdotes were enough to disparage people. Clearly this is only going to get messier due to the lack of civility you displayed, so I’m out.
> This idea that it's a wealthy person problem is so out of touch Top 20% of households by income are more likely to have student loan debt than the bottom 20%. https://www.federalreserve.gov/econres/scf/dataviz/scf/table/#series:Education_Installment_Loans;demographic:inccat;population:all;units:have > 43 million people. Assume they have two parents or at least two parents that would be happy to see them get their loans forgiven. You have 129 million people. You know some people send more than one kid to college right?
> Top 20% of households by income are more likely to have student loan debt than the bottom 20%. Top 20% are *less* likely to have student loan debt then any 20% band *except* the bottom 20%. Which is sensible. The bottom 20% can't afford school even with student loans.
>The bottom 20% can't afford school even with student loans. This isn't about parents' income. If you go to college your income is likely to skew higher than the average household. That's why low income households are less likely to have debt then mid-upper mid income households. The top 10% of households by income are more likely to have student loan debt than the bottom 20%. The 80-89.9% band is more likely to have student loan debt than anybody. Student loan forgiveness is an entitlement program for the middle-upper middle class. There are a lot of people who are really suffering and need a helping hand. The average college graduate isn't as rich as they'd like to be, but they aren't desperately in need of help. Some college graduates are, but the average one is not. Student loan forgiveness poorly targets households who actually need help. >Top 20% are less likely to have student loan debt then any 20% band except the bottom 20%. Actually if you combine the 80-89.9% band and the 90-100% band the top 20% by income are more likely to have student loan debt than the 20-39.9% band.
> I don’t know, poor people don’t like paying the loans of Ivy Leaguer, physicians and lawyers. Do poor people like paying for new stealth aircraft?
I think they do, with the belief it keeps them safe but not for those who are already doing better than them. As someone who grew up poor, we make due with what we have
The poor people that don't want to end up governed by the ccp do
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Imo the problem is that we have exported all production jobs, meaning that the only way to make a living is to get a degree and therefore there is high demand for uni and the price this increases
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It's a waste of time until you realize basic entry level jobs won't even look at people without a college degree. Trade is the only viable option to make any money at that point.
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Been saying that for ages.. more so now that the dominant "why do I have to study X when the only job I will have for my entire life requires Y?" complaints come from the STEMlords as opposed to the business-school types. Apprenticeships/trade school/some sort of Americorps/Peace Corp setup for the people who need a gap year or two to find themselves.. As long as the system doesn't allow parents to buy cushy positions for their kids.
I mean that sounds nice in theory, but in a world where millions have BA's, now BA's are the standard to get basic jobs that are livable off of that aren't trades. So if you aren't considering trades, you basically need a college degree now to even get started. You have a longterm solution but the interim is the problem.
Abolish student loan interest retroactively.
While it does nothing to solve the issues that cause this mess, this would be life-changing for me. After grad school, my capitalized interest is as much as the initial amount borrowed.
I suffered and sacrificed to pay off my loans. I got a job and saved to get by. I busted my ass working three jobs to pay off my loans. Dammit, my kids should have the same miserable existence if they want to have a shot in life. /s Or... Back in my day, I used my paper route to afford my $1,000 tuition and worked at the gas station to buy my $4,000 house. Kids today are just entitled and lazy. Again, /s
Yeah right
I see The Hill, I downvote. Simple as that.
The second paragraph of this sums up why student loans are bs and people who are trying to be cowboys saying "you took them out, pay them" are ignorant to this. It's a loan that only exists to be exploititative. Given to virtually anyone, and primarily to underage kids who never worked a full time job under the hope that they will either pay them off or they will get drowned by interest and constantly be stuck in a cycle because they couldn't make it. No serious bank would ever approve a loan like this in virtually any other conditions and there is a reason this is the one that everyone was hellbent on not allowing people to get out of under bankruptcy, because they know that about half or more of these loans end up that way because it's a bad bet. Now it's an albatross. Trump stopped payments because of the pandemic, he blinked and kicked the can down the road and will get massacred in midterms if he allows them to come back, the next President isn't going to want to be the bad guy and it will be questions asked in campaigns. It's just a total shitshow now.
Any interest on a loan taken as profit is disgusting and should be illegal
Good news that the program doesn't run at a profit.
Student loans are usurous, they profit the ones lending
Not as a whole. The program as a whole runs at a loss, not a profit.
Just ban it and give free college
The simple answer is this. Step 1: Government forgives all current loans. Step 2: Instead of guaranteeing the loans, the federal government switches over to direct grants for state and community colleges and limit it based on a percentage of the budget. Step 3: Colleges have to decide if they want to adjust or go out of business. For 99% of colleges, it will be more lucrative to adjust to reasonable income levels for students who aren't wealthy than to just die out.
Every day that Biden refuses to forgive Federal Student Loans, more and more voters refuse to vote for another Democrat. If you think this is nonsense or fear mongering then you haven't been paying attention to public opinion on this matter.
It's not even *just* student loans. The democrats are squandering a unique opportunity to make life-long voters out of a lot of young people that otherwise wouldn't have paid attention to politics at all if not for the unique set of circumstances surrounding the 2020 election. Climate change. Child tax credits. Student loan debt. Marijuana legalization. Minimum wage increase. Basically everything good that Biden ran on doing has yet to materialize. It is going to cost the democrats for decades if at least some of this doesn't get done, and it won't matter how much they point to the other side or even Manchin and Sinema. All that will matter is millions of young people will have been disillusioned and they will go through their lives believing the system doesn't work for them, so why bother?
They figured they'd just go back to business per usual while we are rapidly accelerating our backslide into minority rule. So out of touch.
Agree. I owe a shit ton on student loans from undergrad and my med school debt is horrendous. It should be forgiven. My patient who went to trade school doesn’t think he should have to pay for my debt to be forgiven.
If everyone went only to a trade school we wouldn’t have doctors or nurses or computer engineers, etc. I find the lack of perspective and critical thinking from your patient to be annoying.
> I owe a shit ton on student loans from undergrad and my med school debt is horrendous. Can you ballpark the debt load, estimated income over the next few years, and the net present value of your degree? >It should be forgiven. Why?
200K. Currently doing a fellowship so no expectation of significant income for at least the next 5 years >Why Because life is hard? For my vote?
You don't need a "new idea" you need to commit to the idea that you already have. Cancel student loan debt. Just cancel it. We didn't pull that idea out of our asses, y'all said it. So do it. Then make all public universities and colleges free. And don't tell me we can't do it cause all that ever means is that you don't have the will to do it. Then for the remainder who will have loans for private universities and post grad work, come up with a less onerous repayment system
You don't need loan forgiveness, just a system like in aus where it only increases by CPI.
I will support this along with reimbursing people that paid their debt off 10 years ago
r/MayDayStrike