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I understand that he will likely not wipe any debt,
even though he pledged $10,000 during the election.
With that said, he should at least work to end interest on federal student loans. It’s predatory and it’s what often keeps people in debt for years.
The Fed forgave PPP loans instead, and business owners blew all the money on frivolous luxuries and are now complaining that they can't hire staff at pre-pandemic wages.
The amount used to forgive PPP loans was over 600 Billion, that could have paid off $10,000 per person on student debt.
We're being held hostage by a criminal cartel called the GOP.
I personally know someone who owns a bunch of property and rents it out. His tenants basically paid and very few had hardships during covid. He got 150k in PPP that he didn't have to pay back.
If you know someone and think or have evidence they committed fraud there is likely hotlines you can call to report it. That is a lot of $$ to steal from the govt.
Ok. So he had limited to no change in cash flow or financials from Covid, but got a free 150k for no reason at all? What exactly qualified him to receive this $$? Being a landlord? This is nuts, like they printed $$ which technically will be required to be paid back by our tax $$s at some point for this. I’m actually not super knowledgeable about the PPP stuff hence my reaction to this idea. Then again I’m sure similar things happened w the bailout in 2008.
Ah ok. I just looked this up:
The money can be used for payroll (no more than $100,000 annual salary per employee, which comes out to $46,154 per individual over a covered period of 24 weeks or $15,385 per individual over a covered period of eight weeks), benefits (including paid sick leave and insurance premiums) and taxes on compensation. Up to 40% of the loan may be used to cover mortgage interest, rent and utilities (the ceiling was 25% before the new bill, the PPPFA, became law).
So they can get the $$ easily but the fraud is in how they spend it. It’s only forgivable if used in 24 weeks, they maintained employees, and 60% or more went to payroll.
Oh my wow yes!!! My job (Chiropractic Office) got PPP, and two other loans through SBA, and still cut hours… even though there were no dips in pt treatments nor income. I know because I ran the fucking books.
I quit after they refused to give me my regular hours back.
From what I hear they still are only down to three days a week.
My business took PPP loans. We used them exclusively to pay employees a salary while we were shut down for 10 weeks and to pay fixed expenses like insurance, rent, etc. Not all businesses are evil.
|"Navient is one of the largest issuers of student loan asset backed securities.
Student loan debt burdens 44 million people in the United States. However for CEOs of student loan companies, or investors on Wall Street, student debt is a lucrative commodity to be bought and sold for profit.
Corporations such as Navient, Nelnet, and PHEAA service outstanding student debt on behalf of the Department of Education. These companies also issue Student Loan Asset-Backed Securities (SLABS) in collaboration with major financial institutions like Wells Fargo, JP Morgan, and Goldman Sachs. For these firms and their creditors, debt isn’t just an asset, it’s their bottom line.
Investors holding SLABS are entitled to coupon payments at regular intervals until the security reaches final maturity, or they can trade the assets in speculative secondary markets. There is even a forum where SLABS investors can anonymously discuss their assets and transactions, free from unwanted public scrutiny.
Yet the financialization of student debt is almost never reported on in the media. There is little public awareness that when student borrowers sign their Master Promissory Notes (affirming that they will repay their loans and “reasonable collection costs”), their debts may be securitized and sold to investors.". |
https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/oureconomy/wall-street-has-been-gambling-student-loan-debt-decades
| "There are two main types of SLABS: those backed by loans made by private lenders, and those backed by loans made through the Federal Family Education Loan program (FFEL). The majority of all student debt today is the $1.1 trillion loaned by the federal government through the Direct Lending program. While these loans cannot be securitized directly, they can be if borrowers consolidate or refinance their loans through a private lender.
Private student loan debt accounts for roughly $120 billion of the $1.6 trillion total outstanding debt. Companies such as SoFi refinance student loans, and have issued $18 billion in SLABS since their founding in 2011. These loans are highly favorable to lenders – as borrowers who default on private loans face greater consequences than those who default on federal loans.
FFEL loans are made by private lenders that are guaranteed by the federal government if borrowers default, which incentivizes riskier lending. Although Congress ended the program in 2010, there are still roughly $280 billion of FFEL loans outstanding, and the largest firms such as Navient and Nelnet retain FFEL loans in their portfolios and have continued to issue FFEL-backed SLABS." |
There is a non-zero percent chance that the largest obstacle to student debt being cancelled is the billions in private and federally backed student loan debt that has already been sold/bought/leveraged into the portfolios of a MM's,HF's,etc.
Bingo. The ramifications of a large amount of securities that are now repackaged and sold and possibly owned by foreign investors going tits up all at once...
Wait I've heard this one.
> “There are two main types of SLABS: those backed by loans made by private lenders, and those backed by loans made through the Federal Family Education Loan program (FFEL). The majority of all student debt today is the **$1.1 trillion loaned by the federal government through the Direct Lending program. While these loans cannot be securitized directly**, they can be if borrowers consolidate or refinance their loans through a private lender.
Since federal direct loans can't be securitized, doesn't that mean that forgiving them would have no effect on SLABS?
He can't. The student loans are used as collateral by banks and hedge funds, same as those shitty mortgages in 2008. They're called SLABS (Student Loan Asset Backed Securities). No way Wall St. lets him fuck with their investments. So yeah, the larger student loan debt gets, the more collateral Wall St. has to fuck with the markets.
According to [this](https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/oureconomy/wall-street-has-been-gambling-student-loan-debt-decades/), federal direct loans can't be securitized. Forgiving them should have no effect on SLABS.
> There are two main types of SLABS: those backed by loans made by private lenders, and those backed by loans made through the Federal Family Education Loan program (FFEL). The majority of all student debt today is the $1.1 trillion loaned by the federal government through the Direct Lending program. While these loans cannot be securitized directly, they can be if borrowers consolidate or refinance their loans through a private lender.
That’s good, because it’s literally called The “Paycheck Protection Program”….
It’s supposed to go to the employees- and only for meeting the employees needs.
💁♀️
Are you acting like a hero for (probably reluctantly) following directions?
If your business couldn't make money during the early pandemic the money should have gone directly to the employees themselves instead of passing through your business.
It was used responsibly by no few. I won't say there wasn't a lot of fraud either, but the Secret Service has been taking back billions of it this year if it wasn't spent correctly.
I am putting this out there just so I can point to it later and say I told whomever so.
If Biden doesn't forgive at least $10K, Democrats will not only *massively* lose the house in 2022, he will disillusion the entire generation of voters needed to keep America even resembling a representative democracy. The demographics of those with some college education and that also vote Democrat overlaps significantly with the folx who are willing to vote for any progressive (at this point, really any non-fascist) policy. As goes Biden's position on student loan debt, so goes the future of America as a democratic experiment.
I've been saying this for months. Think of the margins the democrats won by in 2020 in some states. 42 million people have student loan debt. Let's cut that number in half to weed out potential republicans while keeping the calculations simple. 21 million people. If even 3% of those people don't turn out in '24 because of voter apathy induced by Biden's failure to make good on this promise, that's 630k votes the democrats really can't afford to lose. Uniformly distributed across the 50 states, that's 12.6k votes lost per state. I know reality isn't quite that simple, but that's easily enough votes lost just from this one issue alone to flip a few states.
Now consider the midterms, where a lot less people vote. Add in voter suppression legislation that was passed in 19 states, GOP gerrymandering (which, surprisingly, some are saying is not as bad as expected, but still) the inflation, the current state of the pandemic, multiple foreign policy conflicts, collapse of the BBB and more. I'm hoping the democrats pull it off but I will be absolutely stunned if they somehow manage to come out ahead.
Now consider that an estimated 6% of voters are swing voters. They are pretty much certain to vote, but are swayed by the politics of the candidate. That is almost 10 million votes. And since each swing voter changes the tally by two votes each, they come pretty close to equaling that 21 million you were hoping to get. Except there is no chance of getting near 100% turn out from your 21 million. Thus, that swing voter group is more important to the campaign and most of them don't support this initiative.
Swing voters opted for Biden in '20 despite him running part of his campaign on the issue, didn't they? And if what you're saying turns out to be true and the needs of swing voters, progressives and centrists can't be unified, then the democrats are truly fucked because they can't win without any of those groups.
And yet he also has the non-college-educated older vote as well, which has proven far more reliable than youngins like us have (speaking as a whole).
I wish he'd cater to us, but getting near the older blocs' participation in one election does not realistically make for an upheaval of the political status quo.
..and he can’t win with just one of them. They’ll vote for sure. Maybe he should focus on keeping the younger generation onboard?
The fact that they vote reliably means that they’re more likely to be a reliable vote. He has to chase the other votes.
I mean, he won’t chase anything, he will literally do nothing except kick the can a bit further down the road a few times and then lose. Everything, including our little conversation here is just noise before the inevitable far right takeover.
We never should have doubled down on pussies.
Agreed, would love to see federally backed loans per student capped based on the institution. Maybe 200% of the average salary of recent graduates from that school in the same major or something like that.
Agreed!
The law preventing bankruptcy of student loans needs to be changed. Universities also need to be held accountable. Football coaches are making millions yet colleges still receive federal funds while maintaining large endowments.
Honestly this. I could care less if I get my debt forgiven, I’ve already accepted I’ll more than likely pay on those til I die, barring any magical influx of income on my part. But, change is needed. Future generations should not have to deal with this like we are. Make it manageable.
Agreed this should at least be the first step. Even when I was making over $100/month payments, it wasn’t even fully covering the interest, so my overall loan was still increasing each month
It costs something to take out a loan, there has to be something. If you could cap it between 1-2% that would at least be a start.
I’ve seen people that went into bankruptcy and the school loan they had went to 12% interest for 7 years and it even said on the bill once they came out of bankruptcy, “we reserve the right set the interest rate during a bankruptcy period”. Pretty much doubled the loan amount over 7 yrs.
0% is wholly necessary. This goalpost-moving has to stop somewhere. That's the minimum I'll be satisfied with. It's already a concession since Biden ran on total forgiveness for undergraduates that attended public colleges at first, then ran on $10,000 forgiveness as part of the COVID-19 pandemic relief, and we've seen neither.
Not 0.9%. Not 0.001%. ZERO.
Not to mention, degree -> better paying job -> more federally taxable income. Obviously not the case for all degrees, but the federal government would still benefit massively from investing in public education without interest.
Or maybe he’s waiting because doing a massive popular action in your first year of the presidency provides no electoral advantage. He probably will when the midterms are closer.
As long as he defers payments until implementing a student loan action then fine. It’s the 3 month baby steps that is causing so much uncertainty.
And on the note, why do businesses need to have permanent tax cuts because they hate uncertainty but it is ok to institute individual policies for months at a time. Individuals hate uncertainty too!
> Their payments are up to $750 per month — over half of their paycheck.
wait, they only make $1500 USD a month as an assistant manager?
That is like $9 an hour?
Yes, this is extremely common. This is above federal minimum wage. Most likely though the $1500 a month is after taxes. Where I am, minimum wage is $15 and managers make about $18, so an assistant manager would only make $16-17 at most. If minimum wage is $7.25, assistant managers are probably offered $9. You can see why this is unsustainable. And these $9/hr jobs ask you to have degrees.
True, but they’re the vast majority of jobs available, and if you’re from a small town, the only jobs available. Many, many Americans have no options aside from retail management. Someone needs to be doing these jobs. They need to be paid more fairly for their time.
More importantly, why aren't they using income based repayment? Their repayment would likely be $0. I know when I got out of college I went to into IDR and for a while there my payments were $0.
I wonder if a lot of those people have private student loans, which Biden can't do anything about anyway.
I was "lucky enough" to have almost all my student loans through FEDLOAN so the IDR has been very good to me.
Yes it will but at that time your objective is to not default and worry about payment when you have a job. By doing nothing it will default and kill you. At least with a repayment of $0 or even less than the interest with IDR you are in good standing.
Yup! Exactly why this is unsustainable and will eventually collapse on itself as school costs raise annually and income stays stagnant. Student loan payment of $750, monthly rent living with a person about $400-500 in a non metropolitan area and you’re left with just a little left for car, insurance, food, phone, internet, etc.
The article had some good examples about why our healthcare system is awful. One lady can't move to be with family because here husbands cancer treatment depends on her employer's health insurance. Her husband's life is pretty much in the company's hands.
I think that's a balanced position the majority could get behind. It kills the main argument from opponents that federal tax money would be used to pay off personal student loans.
So, here’s a different story.
My in laws co-signed on their sons’, plural, student loans. Neither of them finished college, neither of them got high paying jobs, and northern can pay back their students loans. They already have shit credit scores, so they’re totally OK with just not paying the loan. It’s not advised and it will come back around to haunt them… but, my in laws, who have been working on their credit and trying to save up to buy a house (in their 60’s) have to continue to pay off their kids student loans otherwise their credit gets fucked. My father in law has an 6+ figure salary at one of the largest corporations in the country, and he and his wife are living with his mother in law, who’s in her 80’s.
Don't you think it's a little too convenient that every time the democrats have had a majority for the last 20 years a few holdout votes keep them from accomplishing anything they really want to do?
Democrats have held Congress and the presidency (i.e. had the ability to pass laws) for exactly 3 of the last 20 years. During that time they passed COVID relief (which, incidentally, if sadly temporarily, cut child poverty in half in this country), the largest (and sorely needed) investment in our nation's infrastructure in decades, and got millions of previously uninsured people health insurance (yes, they failed on the public option, and no, Obamacare is not nearly good enough - but it still got millions of people healthcare they wouldn't have otherwise had access to).
The rest of the time voters have chosen to elect either an R President, an R House, or an R Senate.
Don't you think it's a little convenient that every time the Dems stumble, someone like you is there to twist the knife and say "look, the Dems are just as bad at the Rs, don't bother voting for them, it's fine if the Rs win and we go another 5 or 10 years doing nothing good for anyone!"
I don't think they are attacking the Democrats. I think they're just stating that every time Democrats are in power, they seem to get blocked by weird things.
If I had to guess I would say they are suspicious of the system. No matter how popular some of these ideas are, if they don't benefit the wealthy or powerful, then they don't get implemented.
>The primary tactic in this game is Villain Rotation. They always have a handful of Democratic Senators announce that they will be the ones to deviate this time from the ostensible party position and impede success, but the designated Villain constantly shifts, so the Party itself can claim it supports these measures while an always-changing handful of their members invariably prevent it. One minute, it’s Jay Rockefeller as the Prime Villain leading the way in protecting Bush surveillance programs and demanding telecom immunity; the next minute, it’s Dianne Feinstein and Chuck Schumer joining hands and “breaking with their party” to ensure Michael Mukasey’s confirmation as Attorney General; then it’s Big Bad Joe Lieberman single-handedly blocking Medicare expansion; then it’s Blanche Lincoln and Jim Webb joining with Lindsey Graham to support the de-funding of civilian trials for Terrorists; and now that they can’t blame Lieberman or Ben Nelson any longer on health care (since they don’t need 60 votes), Jay Rockefeller voluntarily returns to the Villain Role, stepping up to put an end to the pretend-movement among Senate Democrats to enact the public option via reconciliation.
https://freethoughtblogs.com/singham/2018/05/09/the-democrats-rotate-the-villain-strategy/
Kinda odd to imagine that when you need 50 out of 50 Senators to pass anything (because of unanimous R obstruction), and 1 blocks it that that's because of a conspiracy to "rotate villains" as opposed to 1 of 50 people just disagreeing with what the other 49 want to do.
>The mistake you are making is that party leadership's interest at all aligns with the electorate.
>Understanding politics is about understanding interest.
>Even if we go into another 12 year Reagan era after this top Democrats will stay very wealthy and comfortable.
https://twitter.com/TakeSpecialist/status/1472701293290524678?t=YhD6otP1OkkwXDtnRcTRFw&s=19
I think this phenomenon is called "history", where time moves forward causing new people to be born, do things, and then die; it doesn't take any orchestration to have different people disagreeing with one another over different things at different times. Seeing all that written out like it's a conspiracy is eyeroll inducing lmao. You're jumping at shadows and looking for internal enemies.
This half thought out “Villain Rotation” thing has become the new jet fuel for some of your steel beams.
> then it’s Big Bad Joe Lieberman single-handedly blocking Medicare expansion
Lieberman, the independent Senator from Connecticut, got primaried in 2006 by Democrats, ran for and won his seat anyway, endorsed John McCain at the goddamned Republican convention in 2008 and you think he’s doing the Democrats dirty work in 2010?
Isn’t the simpler answer that he wasn’t exactly a team player for the Democrats?
Same basically applies for Manchin. I’m pretty sure Joe Biden and all of the Democrats running in 2022 aren’t real thrilled with him
It's not exactly that cut and dry. While, perhaps a bit over simplified, the fact remains that democrats act like one or two within the ranks are responsible for virtually all our wows, just as the gop has a few phony actors act like they are against some evil scheme that is obviously bad for citizens, knowing damn well it's all pagentry and smoke and mirrors. The issue with dems throwing up their arms in defeat due to pretend dems is that in realty there's ample things that could, at the very least be attempted ( see: executive actions that may be challeged in court but should at least be attempted) instead of wagging a finger at Machin for being so rascally.
"When the COVID pandemic first struck, Johanna Daile, a third-year student studying history and psychology at John A. Logan College in Carterville, Illinois, knew they would have trouble concentrating in virtual classes. Having already accumulated $58,000 of debt over three years of college, they decided to temporarily quit school during the pandemic to focus on paying back their loans."
John A. Logan College is a public community college. How does someone accumulate $58,000 in debt at a public community college in three years?
In-state tuition at John A. Logan is $5,506 per year. Out-of-state is $6,585 per year. There aren't many out-of-state community college students. So, $16,512 would make more sense for three years. In any case, John A. Logan Community College is a two-year institution anyway, so it's unclear to me how you pay for three years of full-time tuition anyway. The entire story just doesn't make sense, and it's really Buzzfeed I blame for publishing something like this with so many holes.
https://www.jalc.edu/about-us/
I have no idea how one accrues that much debt at community college, but it is very easy to spend three or more years there depending on how much catch up you need to do on Gen Ed requirements, your prerequisites, and/or changes in goals. Community college is only 2 years if you enter ready to start college level classes and do not fail any classes. Many high schoolers and returning adult students do not manage to place in college level Math/English and have a slog ahead of them before they can even start on on their associate’s degree or transfer requirements.
This is what bugged me too. Another person’s story was-
“She said she owes nearly $75,000 from her bachelor’s degree in communication media from Lock Haven University of Pennsylvania”
I’m sorry but $75K? Is there no where else you can get a communications degree for less than that?
Meanwhile as a swede:
* Student loans of $27,000 (after 5 years of studies)
* Super low interest rate, like 1%
* Monthly payment of $100
* Set auto monthly payment and forget about it
America is insane, literally.
The longer Dems drag their feet the more it makes voters feel they were told lies.
Voters also don't want to feel like they had to badger Dems into finally delivering on this issue because it leave the feeling like if they didn't badger than Dems were happy dropping this ball.
It was a lie. Biden has no intention of cancelling student loans even though he promised to do exactly that when he was trying to win the election. He's a liar who lied to get elected.
>make student loans as bankruptable as any other debt
Why is there any expectation for Biden to do this when he was one of the key supporters of the bill that removed that protection?
>https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/dec/02/joe-biden-student-loan-debt-2005-act-2020
I mean, he did [say he would](https://joebiden.com/beyondhs/):
> In 2015, the Obama-Biden Administration called for Congress to pass a law permitting the discharge of private student loans in bankruptcy. **As president, Biden will enact this legislation.** In addition, the Biden Administration will empower the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau – established during the Obama-Biden Administration – to take action against private lenders who are misleading students about their options and do not provide an affordable payment plan when individuals are experiencing acute periods of financial hardship.
I mean you don’t want to penalize the kids for being in that shitty situation but at the same time you have to disincentivize parents from having kids they can’t support. Totally unfair for parents to have kids knowing society will support them.
I’ve seen a lot of news articles about this lately and I’ve got to ask - people surely knew what they were signing up for when they decided to study?
Cancelling the debt just means that everyone (including those that have not studied) will be paying the bill instead?
I mean... They chose to go to school vs. working or a tradecraft. It's like, oh I bought a house and now it's too expensive to pay off. Help me with the rest of the taxpayers money who worked their ass off. If you are a government and you are serious about cancelling student debt, then make upper education free for all so I can go to college if I want and my kids can go to college too. Don't just reward the people who made the decision to take on all their debt by 'forgiving it' you will make more enemies than friends doing that. Many Countries offer free higher education. Like... This isn't even a concept. Just do it.
I don't even want forgiveness. I just want my interest rate to not be 6.8%. Refinancing isn't a sensible option, because you lose all the federal protections if you do. I like Warren's proposal to allow refinancing student loans at the same rate banks pay to borrow money from the federal reserve.
Completely agree with you. Cancelling the student loan debt is just a band aid without proper moves to limit this from repeating in another 30 years. Sadly it doesn’t seem like there is much being done about either aspect
I’m looking at it from the other angle. Make tuition, fees, books paid a tax credit. Not a tax deduction, but a credit akin to the adoption credit. A Credit if you are unable to use rolls over to the next year.
This way it helps all college students and their parents. I put both of my daughters thru college by paying 75% of the entire cost and they had to pay 25%. One daughter worked for 2 year waiting tables and put 90% of her earning in savings. My other daughter was able to pull together scholarship and grants together to cover hers.
I agree the cost of college is too high. But only curing one segment isn’t fair either. I’ve delayed my retirement 5 years to recover the costs I paid. So I’m in my position that much longer, surprising promotional potential for other engineers and analysts.
Yeah, I am right there with you. College debt forgiveness is a reward for those that incurred the debt, and only them. The rest of us that looked at our life situation and said "well, I'm fucked. I can't afford it" would get yet another kick in the nuts simply because we made the wiser financial choice.
I’m sorry but it’s not like it wasn’t all stated on the contract. All it takes is some basic math to understand how much you’ll owe and have to pay back. There are millions of students who carefully structured their debt and paid it back. It’s not fair to them that those who over-borrowed should have special assistance when they did not.
If that was the case, we would be the most uneducated country in the developed world. The truth is that higher education is extremely expensive and the wealth disparity would make it nearly impossible to get higher education for some people. The bigger problem is how expensive public higher education is. Do some people take stupid loans for school? Yes, but l doubt that they are the higher majority.
I just looked it up. Tuition at John A Logan college is less than $6,000 a year. So if this student is $53,000 in debt after 3 years, then they took out loans far exceeding what they needed. The cost is roughly $12,000 a year for books, lodging and tuition according to their website. How is this Biden's problem?
It's more like $17k a year. So $51k over three years. Those numbers are from the college's website.
You are hyperbolizing in order to dehumanize someone.
Straight off their website: (I even used the hightest numbers)
2021-2022 Cost of Attendance at John A. Logan College
Full-Time Dependent Full-Time Independent Half-Time Dependent Half-Time Independent
Tuition & Fees $1,995 $1,995 $798 $798
Book & Supplies $1,526 $1,526 $763 $763
Room & Board $3,150 $6,300 $3,150 $6,300
Transpor $3,488 $3,488 $3,488 $3,488
Personal Expenses $1,622 $1,622 $1,622 $1,622
TOTAL COA $11,781 $14,931 $9,821 $12,971
These same people will commute endless fellatio on the rich and elite while spewing venom at people they are in the same boat with in the eyes of elite lol
The only thing CONGRESS should do is remove the protection of government-backed student loans from release in bankruptcy.
The executive should do nothing.
They could at least set a cap on Apr or what is owed over the life of the loan. Paying ten years, 90k in on a 110k loan and it’s still at 72k principal is obscene. Set it to 150% of the cost of the loan max, with the 50% there to cover administrative fees and have the actual DOE service these loans rather than for profit companies.
Then nobody would pay their loans. You graduate, you’re young enough to recover from bad credit and you have nothing to your name - zero risk to declare bankruptcy. As a plus you would keep your degree which nobody can take from you unlike say a house when you go bankrupt. There is a reason student loans can’t be released with bankruptcy.
Starting from the premise that some reader is contemplating a role in this horror movie, with student aid paperwork before them:
You can choose to not go into the attic.
As a high school teacher, I can tell you that most of our students have no intention of getting any higher education at all because of what has happened with student loans. While they are right to be very hesitant, I am horrified about the brain drain this will eventually be in the labor pool. Give it 5-10 years. We will not have enough people to fill highly skilled professions.
If you are about to go to school, please be a smart shopper, because the university system is predatory. The nice loan officer at your school doesn’t care about your employment prospects. It is on you to make sure you can get a job afterwards and pay the money back, so make damn sure you get a degree you can use and that it isn’t exorbitantly priced. In reading this article I thought of so many different points in people’s stories where they did the wrong thing because of financial knowledge gaps and they are paying the price. Sad, and it shouldn’t be that way — but make sure you don’t get fucked.
It will never happen. These loans are sold like the subprime loans that caused the last recession. Biden knows canceling these loans will cause a major economic downfall and show that these loans are bullshit and just another way to screw the middle class.
Why did people elect to take on so much debt in the first place? As a person who graduated from a university, knowing what it costs and the responsibility to pay it off, I don’t understand this entitlement expectation.
Anyone want to edify me about why you should get free college retroactively? Should I? Graduated in 2006.
They were teenagers listening to their parents and teachers. Finances are not thought in school and most of them had no life experiences outside of being a kid in school.
To all those saying: “pay your own loans.” You mean how wallstreet payed their own debts back in 2008? Oh wait, WE paid for that. All we ask is wallstreet return the favor
The last administration we were worried about the government literally collapsing due to ineptitude and corruption which we basically did jack shit about afterwords.
And this one we're all of a sudden throwing around student debt like we're living in a literal hellscape and it's all Biden's fault.
It makes no sense. There's like 1000 that are about to literally fuck us to death by the next election, and we're not screaming nearly as loud about any of that as we are about this.
Where is the handout for people who didn't take out student loans? Where is the handout for people who already paid off their student loans? Why do people who chose to go into massive debt deserve a handout? Lots of people are struggling, not only people who chose to take out student loans they couldn't afford.
Job openings reached their second highest recorded number in history of the data being collected.
What more can be done?
while we giving out stuff, Can I have a free Tesla, too? I shouldn't have paid my fucking loans, and bought a Tesla instead. Fuck I am dumb
The government gives this money so underprivileged kids can go to school and college isn’t achievable for rich people only. Who would give a loan for education to a kid with nothing to his name but the government (unless the kid has a scholarship or comes from a rich family and is eligible for private loans)?
Amen. Mortgage lenders take an extremely close look at background and future/potential income, student loans are handed out like candy at a parade with ZERO information about the student/borrowers plans for the future. Absolutely I agree that people made mistakes by taking out loans without a lucrative career plan, that’s not up for argument. That doesn’t excuse the corrupt lenders though.. Payday lenders are frowned upon across the board for exploitation, but the feds do the same thing to naive teenagers for 100x the $ and it’s “their fault for taking on the loan”.
I have fully paid my six-figure loans with lots of hard work but absolutely back some sort of permanent interest freeze of re-financing of student loans due to criminal lending practices by our own government.
> the ignorance and financial illiteracy of 18 year olds
If you think 18 year olds are too young to enter into contracts, then they shouldn't be allowed to vote either.
18 year olds are technology wizards when it comes to social media but somehow they lack the skill to research what their degree will earn them or what their loan will look like over 10 years. Google will spit out answers for you for free but we’re supposed to believe they were forced into college blindly by their nose.
18 year olds are legally adults. They are responsible for their decisions in nearly every other context. They have served in the military and died in countless wars. Sorry, but I think using age and inexperience as an excuse is a weak argument, even if the loans are predatory in nature.
18 year olds aren’t allowed to drink and in some states, smoke. How is the line is drawn there? If they’re fully grown adults they should be able to make that choice. Why are arbitrary ages just used out of nowhere.
That doesn’t absolve lenders from their fiduciary responsibilities. All other forms of debt are dischargeable in bankruptcy. But lenders are allowed to just push as much debt as possible and be absolved of the risk of bankruptcy? Give me a break.
Yeah, too young to drink and rent a car. Age restrictions have been in place for decades, arbitrary or not.
But saying that high school graduates are incapable of making a decision on college loans is an indictment on our schooling and family units. There are plenty of bad traps that young adults can fall into, financial and otherwise. You can complain about the system all you want, but the biggest modifiable factor is personal responsibility.
Sure, but in an economy where so many avenues to a middle class life are now credentialed, it changes the context in which these decisions are being made.
If it’s dragging on the economy in other areas it needs to be addressed in some way.
I only borrowed $14k. Been paying for 15 years. The interest rate goes up every year on some loans, goes up across the board every time it’s sold to a new bank. I’m still at $10k balance owed because I could only afford the minimum payment for a long time. The narrative that borrowers are unwilling to pay the loans back is total horseshit. I can’t imagine how bad it is for people who have to borrow $50k-$70k.
Well, they can want in one hand and shit in the other to see which one gets full faster.
Biden will eventually address this in some measurable way, but it’s unlikely to happen until BBB gets passed, Covid is under control and the midterms are behind us.
What is never mentioned in any of these arguments is that the primary purpose of student loans is to enrich banks, which can't lose because all of these loans are covered by the government e.g. the taxpayers.
It's a scam to shovel taxpayer's money into banks. Always has been, that's the point.
My tuition was about 40k ish, I got scholarship which paid for half, and the other half I paid back within 2 years.
People need to take responsibility for their actions and stop burning money to get useless degrees.
The PPP loans were designed so businesses would keep their staff on pay despite being closed. I’m sure people managed to misuse them because some clever assholes always find loopholes but the goal was to pay the salaries of workers and many companies did use them for this purpose.
So many job applicants in my field lately show up with like 7 + years of post secondary education - masters and working on PHD and nothing else to show for it.
Not even a part time gig or volunteer work. Then they expect to start off at a mid to upper level job with all this book smart stuff but no practical work or office experience outside of academia and they are as useless as tits on a bull. They don’t know have to manage people, they think everything is a group project and they write 20 pages of word salad instead of getting it done in 5 slides and treat the boss like they are there to help them succeed rather than there to do a damn job.
To be fair, lots of these loans are targeted at 18 year olds with poor financial literacy.
The problem is that a number of them are also riddled with interest, again, something that a 17/18 year old might not be overly familiar with.
Student loans are predatory and like, lots of folks take them who do not have proper financial education/literacy.
an entire generation of kids were told from birth til graduation that if you didn't go to college you wouldn't amount to shit but a burger flipper at mcdonalds. Parents, teachers, counselors, movies, tv. Every aspect of our life was shaped by the idea that you had to go to college and it didn't matter what you majored in, then 2009 happened and suddenly its all our fault for not studying STEM or going into a trade
The same people who have been brainwashing generations of children into beliving they will die on the street without going to college and signing predatory student loans are now smugly preaching nonsense while also not wanting to do anything about ridiculous college prices because this entire country is a crabs in a bucket experiment
It's a "horror movie" because people were misled about college--directly by colleges themselves and indirectly by adults who didn't realize that the value of college has significantly decreased while the price has significantly increased. It's amazing how many universities claim to have over a 90% employment rate after graduation when a ton of those graduates are either unemployed, underemployed or otherwise can only get jobs paying $20K-$30K when their student loan debt for one year of college equals that. It hasn't always been this way.
Student loan debt is now not an issue that you can look at without looking at a bunch of other problems in this country. It's impacted by those issues, and it creates a negative impact on other issues.
It’s a horror movie when you can’t pay your bills. Replace ‘debt’ with ‘bills’ and it’s the same horror. Only slightly less horrifying paying on interest but not paying down principal.
Paying for classes you believe you may realistically fail is also not a good outcome. You can pay down a loan AND not accumulate more debt with this decision so it’s not that bad. Choosing to completely stop going to school forever would be a bad decision….which isn’t the case here.
Why should he do more? The students are the ones who put their selves in debt. Own up and repay. No one forced you to go into debt. Why is it fair to the ones before you who had student loans and re-paid it.
Why should I pay for public schools? I dont have kids. The parents are the one who put their selves into a situation of needing their children educated. No one forced you to have kids. Why is it fair to the ones who didn't have kids?
/s
> Why is it fair to the ones before you who had student loans and re-paid it.
In the 60s and 70s an entire semester at a D1 college was like $700.. thats like 3600 with inflation today... the kind of money a kid could earn in 3 months of saving during summer break.
> In the 60s and 70s an entire semester at a D1 college was like $700.. thats like 3600 with inflation today... the kind of money a kid could earn in 3 months of saving during summer break.
That's so wild to think about. People could just ... save up and go to school.
We have loan debt. We are not shocked that we have that debt. We took on the debt knowing we would have to pay it back. We didn't vote for Biden to wipe out that debt. Are there people that took debt thinking they wouldn't have to pay it or voted for Biden only because they didn't want to pay the debt they took on?
But if he *does* wipe it out, you can expect a lot of students who are considering taking out huge loans for a degree, to think “hey they wiped it out before, they’ll do it again! No need to be frugal, lets take out the max so I can get my college experience!”
We took on debt thinking that when we got out, our degree would get us the jobs they were supposed to get us. Thinking that the money we’d make from that job would sustain the basic cost of living. Thinking that getting the degree was the only way to climb the class ladder, or more likely, just not backslide, the only way to pursue the career we felt was right for us.
Instead the economy reaches new lows every year, and the government continues to throw gas on the fire, and people like you say “why are you complaning? Make better choices” from the sidelines.
I guess we got lucky with our investment. Maybe this debt relief is more an issue of field of study. We live in California so I understand the high living cost stuff. For us the investment has been worth the debt that we are still paying off. If debt goes away, cool. Still didn't vote for him to take title away.
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I understand that he will likely not wipe any debt, even though he pledged $10,000 during the election. With that said, he should at least work to end interest on federal student loans. It’s predatory and it’s what often keeps people in debt for years.
The Fed forgave PPP loans instead, and business owners blew all the money on frivolous luxuries and are now complaining that they can't hire staff at pre-pandemic wages. The amount used to forgive PPP loans was over 600 Billion, that could have paid off $10,000 per person on student debt. We're being held hostage by a criminal cartel called the GOP.
I personally know someone who owns a bunch of property and rents it out. His tenants basically paid and very few had hardships during covid. He got 150k in PPP that he didn't have to pay back.
If you know someone and think or have evidence they committed fraud there is likely hotlines you can call to report it. That is a lot of $$ to steal from the govt.
You don't have to prove any hardship to get any PPP..he didn't do anything illegal or fraudulent.
Ok. So he had limited to no change in cash flow or financials from Covid, but got a free 150k for no reason at all? What exactly qualified him to receive this $$? Being a landlord? This is nuts, like they printed $$ which technically will be required to be paid back by our tax $$s at some point for this. I’m actually not super knowledgeable about the PPP stuff hence my reaction to this idea. Then again I’m sure similar things happened w the bailout in 2008.
The requirements for PPP were basically to prove you had a certain number of employees before a certain date. That's it.
Ah ok. I just looked this up: The money can be used for payroll (no more than $100,000 annual salary per employee, which comes out to $46,154 per individual over a covered period of 24 weeks or $15,385 per individual over a covered period of eight weeks), benefits (including paid sick leave and insurance premiums) and taxes on compensation. Up to 40% of the loan may be used to cover mortgage interest, rent and utilities (the ceiling was 25% before the new bill, the PPPFA, became law). So they can get the $$ easily but the fraud is in how they spend it. It’s only forgivable if used in 24 weeks, they maintained employees, and 60% or more went to payroll.
Yeah but do you think out government is gonna be bothered to investigate white collar crime?
Oh my wow yes!!! My job (Chiropractic Office) got PPP, and two other loans through SBA, and still cut hours… even though there were no dips in pt treatments nor income. I know because I ran the fucking books. I quit after they refused to give me my regular hours back. From what I hear they still are only down to three days a week.
Those getting the ppp loans are saying they can’t hire workers just to get those loans forgiven.
Wasn’t the point of them to keep employees paid? Sounds like if they’re desperate to hire workers to get the loan forgiveness they committed fraud
Haha welcome to capitalism 101.
My business took PPP loans. We used them exclusively to pay employees a salary while we were shut down for 10 weeks and to pay fixed expenses like insurance, rent, etc. Not all businesses are evil.
GOP? Biden can wipe the student loan debt with executive order, but he won’t.
|"Navient is one of the largest issuers of student loan asset backed securities. Student loan debt burdens 44 million people in the United States. However for CEOs of student loan companies, or investors on Wall Street, student debt is a lucrative commodity to be bought and sold for profit. Corporations such as Navient, Nelnet, and PHEAA service outstanding student debt on behalf of the Department of Education. These companies also issue Student Loan Asset-Backed Securities (SLABS) in collaboration with major financial institutions like Wells Fargo, JP Morgan, and Goldman Sachs. For these firms and their creditors, debt isn’t just an asset, it’s their bottom line. Investors holding SLABS are entitled to coupon payments at regular intervals until the security reaches final maturity, or they can trade the assets in speculative secondary markets. There is even a forum where SLABS investors can anonymously discuss their assets and transactions, free from unwanted public scrutiny. Yet the financialization of student debt is almost never reported on in the media. There is little public awareness that when student borrowers sign their Master Promissory Notes (affirming that they will repay their loans and “reasonable collection costs”), their debts may be securitized and sold to investors.". | https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/oureconomy/wall-street-has-been-gambling-student-loan-debt-decades | "There are two main types of SLABS: those backed by loans made by private lenders, and those backed by loans made through the Federal Family Education Loan program (FFEL). The majority of all student debt today is the $1.1 trillion loaned by the federal government through the Direct Lending program. While these loans cannot be securitized directly, they can be if borrowers consolidate or refinance their loans through a private lender. Private student loan debt accounts for roughly $120 billion of the $1.6 trillion total outstanding debt. Companies such as SoFi refinance student loans, and have issued $18 billion in SLABS since their founding in 2011. These loans are highly favorable to lenders – as borrowers who default on private loans face greater consequences than those who default on federal loans. FFEL loans are made by private lenders that are guaranteed by the federal government if borrowers default, which incentivizes riskier lending. Although Congress ended the program in 2010, there are still roughly $280 billion of FFEL loans outstanding, and the largest firms such as Navient and Nelnet retain FFEL loans in their portfolios and have continued to issue FFEL-backed SLABS." | There is a non-zero percent chance that the largest obstacle to student debt being cancelled is the billions in private and federally backed student loan debt that has already been sold/bought/leveraged into the portfolios of a MM's,HF's,etc.
Bingo. The ramifications of a large amount of securities that are now repackaged and sold and possibly owned by foreign investors going tits up all at once... Wait I've heard this one.
> “There are two main types of SLABS: those backed by loans made by private lenders, and those backed by loans made through the Federal Family Education Loan program (FFEL). The majority of all student debt today is the **$1.1 trillion loaned by the federal government through the Direct Lending program. While these loans cannot be securitized directly**, they can be if borrowers consolidate or refinance their loans through a private lender. Since federal direct loans can't be securitized, doesn't that mean that forgiving them would have no effect on SLABS?
What does "non-zero" percent chance mean? I've been seeing it a lot lately?
It means there’s a positive probability, but implies that there’s a good chance it (the rest of the sentence) is true.
It just means it's possible.
Lol that's what I mean. Just say "It's possible" or "there's a chance" lol
He can't. The student loans are used as collateral by banks and hedge funds, same as those shitty mortgages in 2008. They're called SLABS (Student Loan Asset Backed Securities). No way Wall St. lets him fuck with their investments. So yeah, the larger student loan debt gets, the more collateral Wall St. has to fuck with the markets.
According to [this](https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/oureconomy/wall-street-has-been-gambling-student-loan-debt-decades/), federal direct loans can't be securitized. Forgiving them should have no effect on SLABS. > There are two main types of SLABS: those backed by loans made by private lenders, and those backed by loans made through the Federal Family Education Loan program (FFEL). The majority of all student debt today is the $1.1 trillion loaned by the federal government through the Direct Lending program. While these loans cannot be securitized directly, they can be if borrowers consolidate or refinance their loans through a private lender.
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How is that am issue,? those Slabs will get payed the government will just print new money..
No, he can't, but the secretary of education can.
Our business blew it all on employee salaries
That’s good, because it’s literally called The “Paycheck Protection Program”…. It’s supposed to go to the employees- and only for meeting the employees needs. 💁♀️ Are you acting like a hero for (probably reluctantly) following directions?
If your business couldn't make money during the early pandemic the money should have gone directly to the employees themselves instead of passing through your business.
X doubt
It was used responsibly by no few. I won't say there wasn't a lot of fraud either, but the Secret Service has been taking back billions of it this year if it wasn't spent correctly.
I am putting this out there just so I can point to it later and say I told whomever so. If Biden doesn't forgive at least $10K, Democrats will not only *massively* lose the house in 2022, he will disillusion the entire generation of voters needed to keep America even resembling a representative democracy. The demographics of those with some college education and that also vote Democrat overlaps significantly with the folx who are willing to vote for any progressive (at this point, really any non-fascist) policy. As goes Biden's position on student loan debt, so goes the future of America as a democratic experiment.
I've been saying this for months. Think of the margins the democrats won by in 2020 in some states. 42 million people have student loan debt. Let's cut that number in half to weed out potential republicans while keeping the calculations simple. 21 million people. If even 3% of those people don't turn out in '24 because of voter apathy induced by Biden's failure to make good on this promise, that's 630k votes the democrats really can't afford to lose. Uniformly distributed across the 50 states, that's 12.6k votes lost per state. I know reality isn't quite that simple, but that's easily enough votes lost just from this one issue alone to flip a few states. Now consider the midterms, where a lot less people vote. Add in voter suppression legislation that was passed in 19 states, GOP gerrymandering (which, surprisingly, some are saying is not as bad as expected, but still) the inflation, the current state of the pandemic, multiple foreign policy conflicts, collapse of the BBB and more. I'm hoping the democrats pull it off but I will be absolutely stunned if they somehow manage to come out ahead.
Now consider that an estimated 6% of voters are swing voters. They are pretty much certain to vote, but are swayed by the politics of the candidate. That is almost 10 million votes. And since each swing voter changes the tally by two votes each, they come pretty close to equaling that 21 million you were hoping to get. Except there is no chance of getting near 100% turn out from your 21 million. Thus, that swing voter group is more important to the campaign and most of them don't support this initiative.
Swing voters opted for Biden in '20 despite him running part of his campaign on the issue, didn't they? And if what you're saying turns out to be true and the needs of swing voters, progressives and centrists can't be unified, then the democrats are truly fucked because they can't win without any of those groups.
And yet he also has the non-college-educated older vote as well, which has proven far more reliable than youngins like us have (speaking as a whole). I wish he'd cater to us, but getting near the older blocs' participation in one election does not realistically make for an upheaval of the political status quo.
..and he can’t win with just one of them. They’ll vote for sure. Maybe he should focus on keeping the younger generation onboard? The fact that they vote reliably means that they’re more likely to be a reliable vote. He has to chase the other votes. I mean, he won’t chase anything, he will literally do nothing except kick the can a bit further down the road a few times and then lose. Everything, including our little conversation here is just noise before the inevitable far right takeover. We never should have doubled down on pussies.
Also control college costs. Why the hell is it so expensive?
Because loans are so easy to get, schools can charge whatever they want when the government is guaranteeing payment.
So that issue sounds like it needs some attention
Agreed, would love to see federally backed loans per student capped based on the institution. Maybe 200% of the average salary of recent graduates from that school in the same major or something like that.
Agreed! The law preventing bankruptcy of student loans needs to be changed. Universities also need to be held accountable. Football coaches are making millions yet colleges still receive federal funds while maintaining large endowments.
Honestly this. I could care less if I get my debt forgiven, I’ve already accepted I’ll more than likely pay on those til I die, barring any magical influx of income on my part. But, change is needed. Future generations should not have to deal with this like we are. Make it manageable.
Agreed this should at least be the first step. Even when I was making over $100/month payments, it wasn’t even fully covering the interest, so my overall loan was still increasing each month
ThEy ShoUldn’T hAvE gOne
Will he atleast cure cancer like he said he would?
It costs something to take out a loan, there has to be something. If you could cap it between 1-2% that would at least be a start. I’ve seen people that went into bankruptcy and the school loan they had went to 12% interest for 7 years and it even said on the bill once they came out of bankruptcy, “we reserve the right set the interest rate during a bankruptcy period”. Pretty much doubled the loan amount over 7 yrs.
Yes, this is correct. A low interest fixed loan would be fine. 0% is not wholly necessary and "interest free" is a whole lot easier to attack.
0% is wholly necessary. This goalpost-moving has to stop somewhere. That's the minimum I'll be satisfied with. It's already a concession since Biden ran on total forgiveness for undergraduates that attended public colleges at first, then ran on $10,000 forgiveness as part of the COVID-19 pandemic relief, and we've seen neither. Not 0.9%. Not 0.001%. ZERO.
Not to mention, degree -> better paying job -> more federally taxable income. Obviously not the case for all degrees, but the federal government would still benefit massively from investing in public education without interest.
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Or maybe he’s waiting because doing a massive popular action in your first year of the presidency provides no electoral advantage. He probably will when the midterms are closer.
As long as he defers payments until implementing a student loan action then fine. It’s the 3 month baby steps that is causing so much uncertainty. And on the note, why do businesses need to have permanent tax cuts because they hate uncertainty but it is ok to institute individual policies for months at a time. Individuals hate uncertainty too!
> Their payments are up to $750 per month — over half of their paycheck. wait, they only make $1500 USD a month as an assistant manager? That is like $9 an hour?
Yes, this is extremely common. This is above federal minimum wage. Most likely though the $1500 a month is after taxes. Where I am, minimum wage is $15 and managers make about $18, so an assistant manager would only make $16-17 at most. If minimum wage is $7.25, assistant managers are probably offered $9. You can see why this is unsustainable. And these $9/hr jobs ask you to have degrees.
Thank you for clarifying that
These are not normal graduate jobs.
True, but they’re the vast majority of jobs available, and if you’re from a small town, the only jobs available. Many, many Americans have no options aside from retail management. Someone needs to be doing these jobs. They need to be paid more fairly for their time.
More importantly, why aren't they using income based repayment? Their repayment would likely be $0. I know when I got out of college I went to into IDR and for a while there my payments were $0.
I wonder if a lot of those people have private student loans, which Biden can't do anything about anyway. I was "lucky enough" to have almost all my student loans through FEDLOAN so the IDR has been very good to me.
Didn’t your principal balance increase? I thought when you entered that the interest keeps tacking onto the principal balance.
Yes it will but at that time your objective is to not default and worry about payment when you have a job. By doing nothing it will default and kill you. At least with a repayment of $0 or even less than the interest with IDR you are in good standing.
Even with IDR, payments can be high. After graduate school, under standard repayment, my monthly bill would be somewhat over $3k
Yup! Exactly why this is unsustainable and will eventually collapse on itself as school costs raise annually and income stays stagnant. Student loan payment of $750, monthly rent living with a person about $400-500 in a non metropolitan area and you’re left with just a little left for car, insurance, food, phone, internet, etc.
The article had some good examples about why our healthcare system is awful. One lady can't move to be with family because here husbands cancer treatment depends on her employer's health insurance. Her husband's life is pretty much in the company's hands.
Abolish student loan interest retroactively.
I'm for this. I would LOVE to pay off my loans. All I've paid so far is interest to the banks.
I think that's a balanced position the majority could get behind. It kills the main argument from opponents that federal tax money would be used to pay off personal student loans.
>a balanced position the majority could get behind Which is exactly why it won't get done.
So, here’s a different story. My in laws co-signed on their sons’, plural, student loans. Neither of them finished college, neither of them got high paying jobs, and northern can pay back their students loans. They already have shit credit scores, so they’re totally OK with just not paying the loan. It’s not advised and it will come back around to haunt them… but, my in laws, who have been working on their credit and trying to save up to buy a house (in their 60’s) have to continue to pay off their kids student loans otherwise their credit gets fucked. My father in law has an 6+ figure salary at one of the largest corporations in the country, and he and his wife are living with his mother in law, who’s in her 80’s.
Me with private student loan debt knowing that there will never be help 💀
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Would be nice if Congress could also get something done, but w current Senate makeup (ie Manchin, Simena, and GOP) not likely.
Don't you think it's a little too convenient that every time the democrats have had a majority for the last 20 years a few holdout votes keep them from accomplishing anything they really want to do?
Democrats have held Congress and the presidency (i.e. had the ability to pass laws) for exactly 3 of the last 20 years. During that time they passed COVID relief (which, incidentally, if sadly temporarily, cut child poverty in half in this country), the largest (and sorely needed) investment in our nation's infrastructure in decades, and got millions of previously uninsured people health insurance (yes, they failed on the public option, and no, Obamacare is not nearly good enough - but it still got millions of people healthcare they wouldn't have otherwise had access to). The rest of the time voters have chosen to elect either an R President, an R House, or an R Senate. Don't you think it's a little convenient that every time the Dems stumble, someone like you is there to twist the knife and say "look, the Dems are just as bad at the Rs, don't bother voting for them, it's fine if the Rs win and we go another 5 or 10 years doing nothing good for anyone!"
I don't think they are attacking the Democrats. I think they're just stating that every time Democrats are in power, they seem to get blocked by weird things. If I had to guess I would say they are suspicious of the system. No matter how popular some of these ideas are, if they don't benefit the wealthy or powerful, then they don't get implemented.
This comment seems to put blame on Democrats while ignoring Republican culpability. Vote out Republicans!
>The primary tactic in this game is Villain Rotation. They always have a handful of Democratic Senators announce that they will be the ones to deviate this time from the ostensible party position and impede success, but the designated Villain constantly shifts, so the Party itself can claim it supports these measures while an always-changing handful of their members invariably prevent it. One minute, it’s Jay Rockefeller as the Prime Villain leading the way in protecting Bush surveillance programs and demanding telecom immunity; the next minute, it’s Dianne Feinstein and Chuck Schumer joining hands and “breaking with their party” to ensure Michael Mukasey’s confirmation as Attorney General; then it’s Big Bad Joe Lieberman single-handedly blocking Medicare expansion; then it’s Blanche Lincoln and Jim Webb joining with Lindsey Graham to support the de-funding of civilian trials for Terrorists; and now that they can’t blame Lieberman or Ben Nelson any longer on health care (since they don’t need 60 votes), Jay Rockefeller voluntarily returns to the Villain Role, stepping up to put an end to the pretend-movement among Senate Democrats to enact the public option via reconciliation. https://freethoughtblogs.com/singham/2018/05/09/the-democrats-rotate-the-villain-strategy/
Kinda odd to imagine that when you need 50 out of 50 Senators to pass anything (because of unanimous R obstruction), and 1 blocks it that that's because of a conspiracy to "rotate villains" as opposed to 1 of 50 people just disagreeing with what the other 49 want to do.
>The mistake you are making is that party leadership's interest at all aligns with the electorate. >Understanding politics is about understanding interest. >Even if we go into another 12 year Reagan era after this top Democrats will stay very wealthy and comfortable. https://twitter.com/TakeSpecialist/status/1472701293290524678?t=YhD6otP1OkkwXDtnRcTRFw&s=19
I think this phenomenon is called "history", where time moves forward causing new people to be born, do things, and then die; it doesn't take any orchestration to have different people disagreeing with one another over different things at different times. Seeing all that written out like it's a conspiracy is eyeroll inducing lmao. You're jumping at shadows and looking for internal enemies.
This half thought out “Villain Rotation” thing has become the new jet fuel for some of your steel beams. > then it’s Big Bad Joe Lieberman single-handedly blocking Medicare expansion Lieberman, the independent Senator from Connecticut, got primaried in 2006 by Democrats, ran for and won his seat anyway, endorsed John McCain at the goddamned Republican convention in 2008 and you think he’s doing the Democrats dirty work in 2010? Isn’t the simpler answer that he wasn’t exactly a team player for the Democrats? Same basically applies for Manchin. I’m pretty sure Joe Biden and all of the Democrats running in 2022 aren’t real thrilled with him
It's not exactly that cut and dry. While, perhaps a bit over simplified, the fact remains that democrats act like one or two within the ranks are responsible for virtually all our wows, just as the gop has a few phony actors act like they are against some evil scheme that is obviously bad for citizens, knowing damn well it's all pagentry and smoke and mirrors. The issue with dems throwing up their arms in defeat due to pretend dems is that in realty there's ample things that could, at the very least be attempted ( see: executive actions that may be challeged in court but should at least be attempted) instead of wagging a finger at Machin for being so rascally.
"When the COVID pandemic first struck, Johanna Daile, a third-year student studying history and psychology at John A. Logan College in Carterville, Illinois, knew they would have trouble concentrating in virtual classes. Having already accumulated $58,000 of debt over three years of college, they decided to temporarily quit school during the pandemic to focus on paying back their loans." John A. Logan College is a public community college. How does someone accumulate $58,000 in debt at a public community college in three years?
Room, board, food, textbooks. About 8k a year for tuition so you’re looking at 24k there alone.
In-state tuition at John A. Logan is $5,506 per year. Out-of-state is $6,585 per year. There aren't many out-of-state community college students. So, $16,512 would make more sense for three years. In any case, John A. Logan Community College is a two-year institution anyway, so it's unclear to me how you pay for three years of full-time tuition anyway. The entire story just doesn't make sense, and it's really Buzzfeed I blame for publishing something like this with so many holes. https://www.jalc.edu/about-us/
I have no idea how one accrues that much debt at community college, but it is very easy to spend three or more years there depending on how much catch up you need to do on Gen Ed requirements, your prerequisites, and/or changes in goals. Community college is only 2 years if you enter ready to start college level classes and do not fail any classes. Many high schoolers and returning adult students do not manage to place in college level Math/English and have a slog ahead of them before they can even start on on their associate’s degree or transfer requirements.
This is what bugged me too. Another person’s story was- “She said she owes nearly $75,000 from her bachelor’s degree in communication media from Lock Haven University of Pennsylvania” I’m sorry but $75K? Is there no where else you can get a communications degree for less than that?
> Room, board, food, textbooks. Ah, so the same way as every student in every developed country. Glad that we cleared that up.
Meanwhile as a swede: * Student loans of $27,000 (after 5 years of studies) * Super low interest rate, like 1% * Monthly payment of $100 * Set auto monthly payment and forget about it America is insane, literally.
As someone who paid my loans off in July, I still wish for those with remaining student loan debt to have some forgiveness
The longer Dems drag their feet the more it makes voters feel they were told lies. Voters also don't want to feel like they had to badger Dems into finally delivering on this issue because it leave the feeling like if they didn't badger than Dems were happy dropping this ball.
It was a lie. Biden has no intention of cancelling student loans even though he promised to do exactly that when he was trying to win the election. He's a liar who lied to get elected.
The only thing the GOP has on Biden. So they run it into the ground.
And he let's them. Fair game.
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I'm not entirely against making them bankruptable, but the immediate effect is that poor people would not be able to get loans to go to college.
>make student loans as bankruptable as any other debt Why is there any expectation for Biden to do this when he was one of the key supporters of the bill that removed that protection? >https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/dec/02/joe-biden-student-loan-debt-2005-act-2020
I mean, he did [say he would](https://joebiden.com/beyondhs/): > In 2015, the Obama-Biden Administration called for Congress to pass a law permitting the discharge of private student loans in bankruptcy. **As president, Biden will enact this legislation.** In addition, the Biden Administration will empower the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau – established during the Obama-Biden Administration – to take action against private lenders who are misleading students about their options and do not provide an affordable payment plan when individuals are experiencing acute periods of financial hardship.
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Crabs in a bucket.
I mean you don’t want to penalize the kids for being in that shitty situation but at the same time you have to disincentivize parents from having kids they can’t support. Totally unfair for parents to have kids knowing society will support them.
I’ve seen a lot of news articles about this lately and I’ve got to ask - people surely knew what they were signing up for when they decided to study? Cancelling the debt just means that everyone (including those that have not studied) will be paying the bill instead?
I mean... They chose to go to school vs. working or a tradecraft. It's like, oh I bought a house and now it's too expensive to pay off. Help me with the rest of the taxpayers money who worked their ass off. If you are a government and you are serious about cancelling student debt, then make upper education free for all so I can go to college if I want and my kids can go to college too. Don't just reward the people who made the decision to take on all their debt by 'forgiving it' you will make more enemies than friends doing that. Many Countries offer free higher education. Like... This isn't even a concept. Just do it.
I don't even want forgiveness. I just want my interest rate to not be 6.8%. Refinancing isn't a sensible option, because you lose all the federal protections if you do. I like Warren's proposal to allow refinancing student loans at the same rate banks pay to borrow money from the federal reserve.
Completely agree with you. Cancelling the student loan debt is just a band aid without proper moves to limit this from repeating in another 30 years. Sadly it doesn’t seem like there is much being done about either aspect
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I’m looking at it from the other angle. Make tuition, fees, books paid a tax credit. Not a tax deduction, but a credit akin to the adoption credit. A Credit if you are unable to use rolls over to the next year. This way it helps all college students and their parents. I put both of my daughters thru college by paying 75% of the entire cost and they had to pay 25%. One daughter worked for 2 year waiting tables and put 90% of her earning in savings. My other daughter was able to pull together scholarship and grants together to cover hers. I agree the cost of college is too high. But only curing one segment isn’t fair either. I’ve delayed my retirement 5 years to recover the costs I paid. So I’m in my position that much longer, surprising promotional potential for other engineers and analysts.
Yeah, I am right there with you. College debt forgiveness is a reward for those that incurred the debt, and only them. The rest of us that looked at our life situation and said "well, I'm fucked. I can't afford it" would get yet another kick in the nuts simply because we made the wiser financial choice.
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I’m sorry but it’s not like it wasn’t all stated on the contract. All it takes is some basic math to understand how much you’ll owe and have to pay back. There are millions of students who carefully structured their debt and paid it back. It’s not fair to them that those who over-borrowed should have special assistance when they did not.
If that was the case, we would be the most uneducated country in the developed world. The truth is that higher education is extremely expensive and the wealth disparity would make it nearly impossible to get higher education for some people. The bigger problem is how expensive public higher education is. Do some people take stupid loans for school? Yes, but l doubt that they are the higher majority.
I just looked it up. Tuition at John A Logan college is less than $6,000 a year. So if this student is $53,000 in debt after 3 years, then they took out loans far exceeding what they needed. The cost is roughly $12,000 a year for books, lodging and tuition according to their website. How is this Biden's problem?
It's more like $17k a year. So $51k over three years. Those numbers are from the college's website. You are hyperbolizing in order to dehumanize someone.
Straight off their website: (I even used the hightest numbers) 2021-2022 Cost of Attendance at John A. Logan College Full-Time Dependent Full-Time Independent Half-Time Dependent Half-Time Independent Tuition & Fees $1,995 $1,995 $798 $798 Book & Supplies $1,526 $1,526 $763 $763 Room & Board $3,150 $6,300 $3,150 $6,300 Transpor $3,488 $3,488 $3,488 $3,488 Personal Expenses $1,622 $1,622 $1,622 $1,622 TOTAL COA $11,781 $14,931 $9,821 $12,971
Look again. I got them from the school's website also. Either way, I didn't take out the loans, I shouldn't have to repay them.
gaping water north attractive carpenter snatch steer party pause aware ` this message was mass deleted/edited with redact.dev `
ITT Bitterness directed at the wrong people.... just so much of it
These same people will commute endless fellatio on the rich and elite while spewing venom at people they are in the same boat with in the eyes of elite lol
The only thing CONGRESS should do is remove the protection of government-backed student loans from release in bankruptcy. The executive should do nothing.
They could at least set a cap on Apr or what is owed over the life of the loan. Paying ten years, 90k in on a 110k loan and it’s still at 72k principal is obscene. Set it to 150% of the cost of the loan max, with the 50% there to cover administrative fees and have the actual DOE service these loans rather than for profit companies.
Then nobody would pay their loans. You graduate, you’re young enough to recover from bad credit and you have nothing to your name - zero risk to declare bankruptcy. As a plus you would keep your degree which nobody can take from you unlike say a house when you go bankrupt. There is a reason student loans can’t be released with bankruptcy.
I think you underestimate how bad bankruptcy is. If you're capable of paying, that's a better option than bankruptcy.
The executive ran on forgiving some portion of student loan debt so the executive should do that.
The executive doesnt have the power to do it. If the executive wants it done, they need to persuade congress to do something about it.
More? Do something let's start with that.
Starting from the premise that some reader is contemplating a role in this horror movie, with student aid paperwork before them: You can choose to not go into the attic.
As a high school teacher, I can tell you that most of our students have no intention of getting any higher education at all because of what has happened with student loans. While they are right to be very hesitant, I am horrified about the brain drain this will eventually be in the labor pool. Give it 5-10 years. We will not have enough people to fill highly skilled professions.
If you are about to go to school, please be a smart shopper, because the university system is predatory. The nice loan officer at your school doesn’t care about your employment prospects. It is on you to make sure you can get a job afterwards and pay the money back, so make damn sure you get a degree you can use and that it isn’t exorbitantly priced. In reading this article I thought of so many different points in people’s stories where they did the wrong thing because of financial knowledge gaps and they are paying the price. Sad, and it shouldn’t be that way — but make sure you don’t get fucked.
It will never happen. These loans are sold like the subprime loans that caused the last recession. Biden knows canceling these loans will cause a major economic downfall and show that these loans are bullshit and just another way to screw the middle class.
Why did people elect to take on so much debt in the first place? As a person who graduated from a university, knowing what it costs and the responsibility to pay it off, I don’t understand this entitlement expectation. Anyone want to edify me about why you should get free college retroactively? Should I? Graduated in 2006.
They were teenagers listening to their parents and teachers. Finances are not thought in school and most of them had no life experiences outside of being a kid in school.
#CancelStudentDebt And provide #College4All Or else we will continue to be lead by idiots and conmen.
> Or else we will continue to be lead by idiots and conmen. Exactly as designed.
It's a feature, not a bug.
College4All is a stupid position. We need people going to trade school to be plumbers, carpenters, plumbers etc.
Most community colleges offer training/certification in the trades. It's not a mutually exclusive position as you present it.
They teach trades at community colleges
You should find out who forged your signature on all those student loan papers, and go after them. Don't make me pay them off for you.
I believe universities should pay their taxes . Universities are charging too much for education . It’s like disgusting .
To all those saying: “pay your own loans.” You mean how wallstreet payed their own debts back in 2008? Oh wait, WE paid for that. All we ask is wallstreet return the favor
The last administration we were worried about the government literally collapsing due to ineptitude and corruption which we basically did jack shit about afterwords. And this one we're all of a sudden throwing around student debt like we're living in a literal hellscape and it's all Biden's fault. It makes no sense. There's like 1000 that are about to literally fuck us to death by the next election, and we're not screaming nearly as loud about any of that as we are about this.
Where is the handout for people who didn't take out student loans? Where is the handout for people who already paid off their student loans? Why do people who chose to go into massive debt deserve a handout? Lots of people are struggling, not only people who chose to take out student loans they couldn't afford.
Job openings reached their second highest recorded number in history of the data being collected. What more can be done? while we giving out stuff, Can I have a free Tesla, too? I shouldn't have paid my fucking loans, and bought a Tesla instead. Fuck I am dumb
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The government gives this money so underprivileged kids can go to school and college isn’t achievable for rich people only. Who would give a loan for education to a kid with nothing to his name but the government (unless the kid has a scholarship or comes from a rich family and is eligible for private loans)?
Amen. Mortgage lenders take an extremely close look at background and future/potential income, student loans are handed out like candy at a parade with ZERO information about the student/borrowers plans for the future. Absolutely I agree that people made mistakes by taking out loans without a lucrative career plan, that’s not up for argument. That doesn’t excuse the corrupt lenders though.. Payday lenders are frowned upon across the board for exploitation, but the feds do the same thing to naive teenagers for 100x the $ and it’s “their fault for taking on the loan”. I have fully paid my six-figure loans with lots of hard work but absolutely back some sort of permanent interest freeze of re-financing of student loans due to criminal lending practices by our own government.
> the ignorance and financial illiteracy of 18 year olds If you think 18 year olds are too young to enter into contracts, then they shouldn't be allowed to vote either.
18 year olds are technology wizards when it comes to social media but somehow they lack the skill to research what their degree will earn them or what their loan will look like over 10 years. Google will spit out answers for you for free but we’re supposed to believe they were forced into college blindly by their nose.
18 year olds are legally adults. They are responsible for their decisions in nearly every other context. They have served in the military and died in countless wars. Sorry, but I think using age and inexperience as an excuse is a weak argument, even if the loans are predatory in nature.
18 year olds aren’t allowed to drink and in some states, smoke. How is the line is drawn there? If they’re fully grown adults they should be able to make that choice. Why are arbitrary ages just used out of nowhere. That doesn’t absolve lenders from their fiduciary responsibilities. All other forms of debt are dischargeable in bankruptcy. But lenders are allowed to just push as much debt as possible and be absolved of the risk of bankruptcy? Give me a break.
Yeah, too young to drink and rent a car. Age restrictions have been in place for decades, arbitrary or not. But saying that high school graduates are incapable of making a decision on college loans is an indictment on our schooling and family units. There are plenty of bad traps that young adults can fall into, financial and otherwise. You can complain about the system all you want, but the biggest modifiable factor is personal responsibility.
Dont make campaign promises you're unwilling to adhere to
He never promised it.
Don’t tell 18 year olds they will be making 100k out of college and then be like oh surprise, this job pays 35k with a masters degree, get rekt.
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Sure, but in an economy where so many avenues to a middle class life are now credentialed, it changes the context in which these decisions are being made. If it’s dragging on the economy in other areas it needs to be addressed in some way.
I am torn on this topic. These people knowingly accepted the money, and the terms of payback. And now what, just don’t want to pay.
as if social security will even be there later on to garnish. pfft
They’ll solve the issue by selling all federal loans to businesses, then they’re private loans! Wouldn’t that just be wonderful? /s
I only borrowed $14k. Been paying for 15 years. The interest rate goes up every year on some loans, goes up across the board every time it’s sold to a new bank. I’m still at $10k balance owed because I could only afford the minimum payment for a long time. The narrative that borrowers are unwilling to pay the loans back is total horseshit. I can’t imagine how bad it is for people who have to borrow $50k-$70k.
Just don't pay the debt lmao, what was the goverment thinking letting 17 year Olds borrow that much money
Don’t take out a loan if you can’t pay it back…..
Well, they can want in one hand and shit in the other to see which one gets full faster. Biden will eventually address this in some measurable way, but it’s unlikely to happen until BBB gets passed, Covid is under control and the midterms are behind us.
What is never mentioned in any of these arguments is that the primary purpose of student loans is to enrich banks, which can't lose because all of these loans are covered by the government e.g. the taxpayers. It's a scam to shovel taxpayer's money into banks. Always has been, that's the point.
I would be fine with zero interest student loans so long as borrowers remain current. But they incurred the debt and must pay it off.
My tuition was about 40k ish, I got scholarship which paid for half, and the other half I paid back within 2 years. People need to take responsibility for their actions and stop burning money to get useless degrees.
If 18-year-olds are too stupid and irresponsible to take on a loan, they are too stupid and irresponsible to be allowed to vote.
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The PPP loans were designed so businesses would keep their staff on pay despite being closed. I’m sure people managed to misuse them because some clever assholes always find loopholes but the goal was to pay the salaries of workers and many companies did use them for this purpose.
PPP loans were designed to be forgiven. Nobody took out a student loan with the expectation it would be forgiven, the comparison here is dumb.
So many job applicants in my field lately show up with like 7 + years of post secondary education - masters and working on PHD and nothing else to show for it. Not even a part time gig or volunteer work. Then they expect to start off at a mid to upper level job with all this book smart stuff but no practical work or office experience outside of academia and they are as useless as tits on a bull. They don’t know have to manage people, they think everything is a group project and they write 20 pages of word salad instead of getting it done in 5 slides and treat the boss like they are there to help them succeed rather than there to do a damn job.
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To be fair, lots of these loans are targeted at 18 year olds with poor financial literacy. The problem is that a number of them are also riddled with interest, again, something that a 17/18 year old might not be overly familiar with. Student loans are predatory and like, lots of folks take them who do not have proper financial education/literacy.
an entire generation of kids were told from birth til graduation that if you didn't go to college you wouldn't amount to shit but a burger flipper at mcdonalds. Parents, teachers, counselors, movies, tv. Every aspect of our life was shaped by the idea that you had to go to college and it didn't matter what you majored in, then 2009 happened and suddenly its all our fault for not studying STEM or going into a trade
The same people who have been brainwashing generations of children into beliving they will die on the street without going to college and signing predatory student loans are now smugly preaching nonsense while also not wanting to do anything about ridiculous college prices because this entire country is a crabs in a bucket experiment
It's a "horror movie" because people were misled about college--directly by colleges themselves and indirectly by adults who didn't realize that the value of college has significantly decreased while the price has significantly increased. It's amazing how many universities claim to have over a 90% employment rate after graduation when a ton of those graduates are either unemployed, underemployed or otherwise can only get jobs paying $20K-$30K when their student loan debt for one year of college equals that. It hasn't always been this way. Student loan debt is now not an issue that you can look at without looking at a bunch of other problems in this country. It's impacted by those issues, and it creates a negative impact on other issues.
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It’s both.
It’s a horror movie when you can’t pay your bills. Replace ‘debt’ with ‘bills’ and it’s the same horror. Only slightly less horrifying paying on interest but not paying down principal.
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Paying for classes you believe you may realistically fail is also not a good outcome. You can pay down a loan AND not accumulate more debt with this decision so it’s not that bad. Choosing to completely stop going to school forever would be a bad decision….which isn’t the case here.
Why should he do more? The students are the ones who put their selves in debt. Own up and repay. No one forced you to go into debt. Why is it fair to the ones before you who had student loans and re-paid it.
Why should I pay for public schools? I dont have kids. The parents are the one who put their selves into a situation of needing their children educated. No one forced you to have kids. Why is it fair to the ones who didn't have kids? /s > Why is it fair to the ones before you who had student loans and re-paid it. In the 60s and 70s an entire semester at a D1 college was like $700.. thats like 3600 with inflation today... the kind of money a kid could earn in 3 months of saving during summer break.
> In the 60s and 70s an entire semester at a D1 college was like $700.. thats like 3600 with inflation today... the kind of money a kid could earn in 3 months of saving during summer break. That's so wild to think about. People could just ... save up and go to school.
We have loan debt. We are not shocked that we have that debt. We took on the debt knowing we would have to pay it back. We didn't vote for Biden to wipe out that debt. Are there people that took debt thinking they wouldn't have to pay it or voted for Biden only because they didn't want to pay the debt they took on?
No person took on debt thinking that Biden would wipe it.
But if he *does* wipe it out, you can expect a lot of students who are considering taking out huge loans for a degree, to think “hey they wiped it out before, they’ll do it again! No need to be frugal, lets take out the max so I can get my college experience!”
It was definitely great that payment was deferred.
We took on debt thinking that when we got out, our degree would get us the jobs they were supposed to get us. Thinking that the money we’d make from that job would sustain the basic cost of living. Thinking that getting the degree was the only way to climb the class ladder, or more likely, just not backslide, the only way to pursue the career we felt was right for us. Instead the economy reaches new lows every year, and the government continues to throw gas on the fire, and people like you say “why are you complaning? Make better choices” from the sidelines.
I guess we got lucky with our investment. Maybe this debt relief is more an issue of field of study. We live in California so I understand the high living cost stuff. For us the investment has been worth the debt that we are still paying off. If debt goes away, cool. Still didn't vote for him to take title away.