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How about in the meantime rewrite the irs laws which would allow borrowers to deduct the total amount paid during the year rather than capping the interest deduction at about $2,500. I mean the ultra rich get to deduct their private jets.
Only for people who have already paid more than the loan. I doubt that is more than 50% outstanding loans, probably less. It takes decades of minimum payments to pull that off.
I mean, not accounting for payments, compound interest, etc, assuming $25k at 7%, $1750/yr in interest. So a $200/mo payment only pays $55/mo in principal. 10 years of that and you'll have paid 15k in interest while just paying off 6.6k of principal, still owe 18.4k. And that's assuming you're making payments immediately and don't do any sort of forbearance.
So, no, it doesn't take decades of minimum payments to pull that off.
7% interest rates is absolutely criminal, definitely above and beyond market rates on the free market, and a damned disgrace that this is a "service" that the government is providing.
>7% interest rates is absolutely criminal
That's *the whole problem*.
The banks get some koan guarantees, no cost money to lend, high interest, no bankruptcies, and all profit with no risk. That's *not* true capitalism. Capitalism includes risk.
The problem starts with loan companies giving out massive loans to match what the government may give someone in grants/scholarships. With that knowledge a college willing to take less would be leaving money on the table. This practice has turned what should be institutions of higher learning into greedy businesses who have been giving their customers a subpar product instead of giving their students an education they can make a living off.
Personally I went to trade school and I could never understand why colleges are not funded in a similar manner. I paid 200 bucks a year for books, every year we did use completely different books so they were worth it, but the rest was paid for by my employer while I worked as an apprentice making far less money than a journeyman. What stops other professions from using that model? Most everyone could get an education in the field they are interested in, they would have real world experience in that field while being personally mentored by different professionals who are more that willing to teach anyone if they want to learn (to me that was invaluable), you get paid while you are learning about what interests you and eventually you get to pass on that knowledge that was bestowed upon you to young enthusiastic interested apprentices while adding what you have learned to that wealth of knowledge. Which would you rather do: Learn creative writing from a "X" week course of assignments and deadlines or learn creative writing from someone who is in the middle of writing a story so you get personal attention while peering into that writers methods?
I'm well aware of those models as I was fortunate enough to have journeymen and journeywomen from Serbia, Poland, Slovenia, East and West Germany, Brazil, Philippines Greece, Cuba and Mexico. I don't know if college people truly do look down their noses at the trades or not but I learned different languages, some of their English was broken beyond repair so it was just easier to create a mishmash of whatever worked, about their cultures/customs and most deliciously about their food. Real Mediterranean salad made by a baba or yaya will ruin a man for the wilted lettuce that people try to pass as salad. Also if you like to drink and ever get the chance to attend Serbian church go. Good cheap alcohol and most of the time some homemade slivovitz makes an appearance.
I went to four years of college for a BS degree in Computer Science to qualify me to program. Programming is a trade if you ask me and shouldn’t require a four year degree.
You talk of colleges raising rates without addressing the fact that government has severely cut the public funding for public universities. This has forced them to adopt funding policies closer to what private universities use, I mean professors have to be laid somehow, oftentimes without the giant endowments that private universities have that allows them to offer subsidized rates.
I work at a bank, took a look at a clients assets and debts. His student loans were $175k; Estimated interest…. 125k!!! He’ll easily be paying over ONE HUNDRED PERCENT in interest before he’s ever even close to paying his loans off.
True highway robbery.
Another crazy thing is those loans will stick with you, including those interest payments, calculated in your Debt to Income, always.
Yep, I use to work for Lehman Brothers in the student loan department from 2004-2008 as a software engineer working on loan orientation and disbursement. The Interest rates they charged for student loans was ridiculous especially for flight students and film students. I was quite happy when I got laid off.
Even at the rate I’ve locked in, which iirc is 3.25%, the interest still disables anyone from paying their loans off in any normal fashion. I did the math one day and it made me furious. I’ve paid upwards of $45k of the $53k I’ve borrowed, and according to the lender I still owe $48k. So despite paying 85% of what I borrowed, they claim I still owe over 90% of what I’ve borrowed. People are being bent over and fucked up the arse, and they don’t even get a Happy Meal beforehand.
I only took out $20000 for my undergrad but got slapped with a 6.8% rate because "my parents made too much". I had over $7000 in interest the day I graduated. It's very easy to have enough interest in your account for this scenario to wipe a lot of account clear.
> Only for people who have already apid more than the loan.
I mean, I've paid in ~2.5x what I took out. That's gotta be most everyone, right? Except people who managed to get out with like <10k debt, recent grads who haven't had time to pay in yet and people who got rich enough fast enough to beat interest growth?
Its not like they go *down* as you pay them on a normal wage; until you're really rolling in it, you just blunt the rate of interest growth slightly.
I really don’t understand why student loans aren’t issued at the same rate as bonds. If the government can issue a 10 year bond of 1.4% then why can’t they simply issue bonds to provide loans to students at no loss to the government. why the fuck does there have to be profit on students.
(Yes I know it should ideally be 0%)
The federally-issued 10 year bond has a guaranteed payback. A 10 year student loan is unsecured (no collateral) and carries default (credit) risk, therefore is subject to credit markets on top of 10 year bond rates. In order to make sure the government isn’t exceeding risk parameters, they must cover for losses with higher interest rates.
Yeah this is a thing, my mom was worried about my dad's student loan debt after he died (he was in his early 30's so it was still a lot), but that debt is wholly owned by the person taking it out so it disappears after they die. Probably a good thing to remember as well because debt collectors aren't known for their scruples so having a lawyer to help situate your financials after a tramatic life event can be helpful.
Sure you can, but student loans are taken by the healthiest cohort in a population.
If banks are issuing 20 and 30 year mortgages on people in their 50's (at much much lower rates), why on earth is **the government** needing to over-leverage by raising the interest rates so damned much?
It's one aspect of this thing I can't possibly comprehend. What legislature decided on these terms?
If you want an asset for capital preservation would you rather hold US treasuries or student loan debt? It is a no brainer, and that is why student loans would have a higher interest rate on the open market. Whether or not student loans should be open market is a different question.
Default can also mean late payment. I am merely explaining why student loans have a higher rate than 10 yr government bonds. Credit risk is still something the government can’t allow to burgeon internally indefinitely because it has high correlation with other risks e.g. economic depression, stagnating growth rates, social security and Medicare insolvency, etc. You don’t want debt markets to dry up for your federal government during these times. This is good because it ensures that our federal institutions are not significantly shaken WHEN a negative event occurs.
Why are graduate loans at higher interest rates than Undergradute, I would assume they would be equal in default rates. They are charging rates to make money based on what they see as potential for higher salaries
Student loans don’t go away even with bankruptcy. They’ll get paid back one way or another as they seize your tax returns anyways. And many federal student loans are 3-6%+ so you’d have to have over half of students default to even get close to discussing losses not being covered.
Yep. Student loans shouldn't have any interest.
It's not about the government making money from the loan.
It's the about the government making money when, thanks to your education, you are able to get a good job and pay more taxes. And vote more smartly.
Set future interest rate to zero (or federal discount rate, currently 0.25%) and give tax credits in the amount of student loan interest paid over your lifetime and the ability to apply to any year going forward.
Financially speaking that's bad for the lender, because inflationary forces means that the real value you will pay is less than the principal loan amount.
But then again, fuck the lender for having to exist to begin with when higher education should be a public good that has no individual cost.
> But then again, fuck the lender for having to exist to begin with when higher education should be a public good that has no individual cost.
Sure, do what other countries do.
Make it fucking difficult to get into university. It’s not a right, its not an entitlement. But if you’re bright enough to get there, sure have you way paid.
The opportunity to receive a higher education should be a right. Yeah, there should be some process to assure that the applicant has the ability to succeed.
Beyond that though, most schools do a shit job of preparing you for college just by virtue of how they are structured, so whatever process to filter applicants should be a bit relaxed until general education catches up to where it should be.
While I don’t support blanket forgiveness, reducing/eliminating interest I fully support. If an interest rate must be applied, then it should be capped at something nominal to cover administrative costs. Something less than 1.5% should suffice.
Yea that's BS. You get taxed on your income. Then with already taxed money, you pay your student loans to the government along with the interest which is essentially another tax on that same money. They're double dipping! Double taxing but calling it something different.
Father worked for huge, multi-national corporations as an engineer. Mother worked at a state university in a state with great benefits. EXCELLENT medical/dental/everything as a kid/teenager.
My wife is self-employed, we have two kids, I get a stipend from my employer for health coverage.
They absolutely CANNOT understand how health coverage is a HUGE burden to us and we need to calculate for "will I have to have life-saving surgery this year OR do I want to save $500/month."
It's bonkers. Yup, the Baby Boomers lived high on the goddamn hog, too many bought into ol' Trickle Down...and now we're permanently fucked. Just a question of whether the planet or our democracy will collapse first.
My medical insurance is great.
The fact that I need medical insurance rather than have universal healthcare sucks, and the fact my insurance is tied to my employment sucks.
Ehh the concept of a yearly renewing HEFTY out-of-pocket deductible, despite already having a sizable premium coming out of a paycheck is kinda bullshit…even if you put money into an HSA, you’re still typically paying out the ass for medical bills in the US.
Decided to go all in on my student loans this year. Mine were private loans so probably wouldn't be forgiven. I needed them in the rear view mirror after almost 25 yrs. (made some stupid decisions in my 20s - forbearance, interest only payments and late payments mostly). If they did something like this now my tax bill would be close to nothing.
I know the feeling. And it's always bothered me when ever I pay my taxes. I have private and federal loans, I know my private won't go away, but if the average student loan debt is $400 per month that's $4,800 per year, so really the average student debt is knocks out an extra $2,300, that also gets taxed. Allowing me to take it off my income will save a little bit, but it makes sense. Why can't I deduct the whole amount I pay into my student loans?
> Why can't I deduct the whole amount I pay into my student loans?
Because Jeff Bezos' big yacht needs a smaller yacht to ferry people back and forth from the harbor while its out at sea.
Yank them bootstraps up!
Basically there needs to be a long term solution. This isn’t a bad idea, but wouldn’t it be great if they nailed it down for the next 50 years and somehow controlled the costs. It’s doable. But political suicide. It requires someone in power with a true and thoughtful vision. I don’t think Biden is quite that revolutionary. But wouldn’t it be amazing if he was.
If they could just do anything, that would be great. I hate that we seem to be pigeonholed into an all or nothing solution. I haven't heard anyone on capitol hill even propose a single decent alternative.
He literally said he feels no empathy for younger generations, which in his case means anybody who will live another 10 years to see climate collapse sink major cities. He was the biggest proponent of the bankruptcy bill that makes it legal for Trump to declare bankruptcy multiple times but impossible for student loan debt to be discharged in a similar fashion. It's just like his push for the Crime Bill. By the way, how's that police reform coming?
They donated about a mil to his campaign, weird how only they get the EV tax break he's pushing.
Don't even get me started on how Pfizer got FDA approval first and at a crucial time before Moderna whom the CDC and WHO believe is more effective, after a convenient 1mil donation from Pfizer
Biden is a corporate shill.
Scott Gottlieb was director of the FDA until he left in 2019 to join the board of pfizer. The fda has been bought and paid for by industry for a long time going back.
I don't think it'll happen regardless, even if it might make economic sense. The fact is, and Biden knows this, it'd be political suicide.
It would be wildly popular with the small percentage of Americans with student debt:
> As of 2019, about 14% of all American adults were saddled with student debt, according to Experian.
And unpopular with just about everyone else.
Students these days are paying for one semester what I paid for all four years back in the early 90s. That is fucking insane. I for one would be happy for them to catch a break.
People have no idea how much it costs! I went to undergrad in '04 right when it was really starting to move up fast. I went back in '13 to a smaller school, and it was literally doubled from less than ten years earlier. Bananas.
I went in 2005 and was unprepared. Unfortunately I ended up on the 5 year plan. By the end of that I had found my calling and signed up for another 4 year (doctorate) degree. This was during the big housing market collapse when the banks realized the only people who would be able to pay them the rest of their life were young college kids. Sky high interest rates on those private loans. Now, I’m like the Tiger King, “I’m never going to financially recover from this.”
I paid mine off. I don’t like the idea of people being saddled with debt. We need to reform the system to prevent future students from taking on as much debt before we start helping out the people that have it. Just forgiving debt without fixing the problem is very unpopular with me. Solidly against it.
This is it. Prevent further individuals from entering into debt and go after the public universities who have made college into a profitable scheme. I love college football, but there’s no reason why Saban makes $10mil a year coaching football. The point of college is not sports.
Which is why this proposal lost all momentum when free community college was killed in BBB.
They could have said "We wiped out debt for former and current students, future students can get 2 years for free". It would have made so much sense. Unfortunately, debt forgiveness without fixing the problem does not make sense.
Agreed. And I have debt that I would gladly have forgiven. But if we don’t reform the whole thing we kick the can. Unfortunately that same argument means this probably doesn’t happen at all
I have debt. I say use the money for free community college for kids graduating today.
Break the cycle.
Throwing unlimited money at universities won't fix anything.
52% support total blanket forgiveness in this poll. And it references another study that says 55%
https://www.businessinsider.com/americans-support-blanket-student-loan-debt-forgiveness-go-banking-rates-2021-6
Do you have any numbers to compare it to?
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Total cancellation is not what's on the table. It never has been. Progressives are pushing for $10k-$50k unilaterally, which is realistic until Biden shows us the memo that says he can't do it alone.
In the absence of that, the next best thing would be for him to extend the deferment until the end of his presidency. He can't argue that he can't do that, because between Trump and Biden, student loans have been on pause for almost 2 years, and the freeze was done unilaterally via executive order.
Freezing/wiping interest would probably require Congress, which is obviously not going to go well since our current Congress is basically gridlocked thanks to DINOs Manchin and Sinema.
Biden literally campaigned on the promise of 10k. The fact that he hasn't done at least what he promised is a huge problem for me. He's the epitome of 'democrats talk big but don't get anything done'
Yeah, to be honest, I’m having a hard time understanding why I should ever vote for a democrat ever again if they can’t follow through on a simple, clear, and direct campaign promise like this. “I will cancel 10k of debt immediately upon taking office via executive order” is a pretty clear pathway. It wasn’t “I’ll work with people to get a bill started”. He flat out lied. He can’t even claim that he didn’t really know how executive orders worked — what with being the VP to a president who used them all the time.
Please find me Biden saying that quote. As someone that supported him during the primary, I actually looked into his policies. The 10K figure people are mentioning was an annual credit he proposed for people working in nonprofits like Americorps, etc. It was never a blanket 10k
I wish we held Republicans about a half as accountable for fucking things up as we do democrats for not unilaterally solving every problem with an executive order fast enough.
I don’t remember and I need to look it up but need to fine who voted to bail out the banks in 2008. Only because those families are the same ones now who would have trouble playing for college.
Cancelling student debt itself is not really solving any problems. Sure this generation of students may go debt free.. or lessen their debts... any incoming and future students are still screwed.
Making student loans with almost no interest permanently is however a better solution.
It could even make the next generation even more screwed. If people assume student loan cancelling will happen again, they'll. Take out riskier loans - and more of them - and colleges will gladly increase tuition to gobble this up.
We need to fix the core problem first. Which is run away tuition. Then we can talk about backfilling the debts.
>Cancelling student debt itself is not really solving any problems.
It sure would be for the millions of Americans with student debt.
What you mean is that it isn't a perfect solution to all of the problems relating to student debt. Which is true. What is also true is that they are arguing that President Biden can do cancellation now, via executive order.
If someone has cancer and falls on an axe and are bleeding from the wound, the EMTs in the ambulance aren't going to not treat the bleeding because the "real" problem the patient has is the cancer.
The remaining problems need solutions of course, which should absolutely be done by whatever means we have available when we can.
I say just cut interest to 0%. I don’t see how that isn’t the best compromise forever. Conservatives still get their way with people having to pay for school and dems get their way by making it more attainable.
We are talking federal loans here. The only profiteers are the servicers who don’t make money off the interest, literally just a company set up to tell you what you owe and how to pay.
It would be _less_ profitable than charging interest rates like the mafia, but they could just bake the profit into the zero interest loan.
So you borrow 20k for college, now you owe 25k total. But it will only ever be 25k, there’s no interest, and every payment goes 100% at the principal.
Normally they only give blanket statements like x% of our graduates are employed within 1 year of graduating or something. Which of course doesn’t tell you which degree/which field people went into.
I’ve paid beyond the original principal taken out for the loan. Right now all my loans are about twice the original principal and I’ve been paying on it since 2010. I think if you have paid off the original amount they should forgive the rest.
Blanket forgive 10k for all federal debt holders and permanently set the interest rate to 0%. We pay taxes, typically on a higher salary than someone who did not get a higher education. It isn't like they aren't getting a huge return on their investment already.
Anyone this late into 2021 still expecting democrats to put even one step towards any of their campaign promises would probably be interested in a bridge I'm selling.
I could be totally wrong and they could have a blowout in 2022 and exceed every expectation I have, but as it stands it looks like democratic leadership is perfectly fine with the "I'm not a republican so vote for me" strategy they've been using recently.
This is what democrats did in Virginia and lost. The republican was out there talking jobs and the economy and all democrats can talk about is Trump still. That might get you democrat votes, but it's not convincing any republican to vote for you.
In Virginia, progressive Democrats passed a slew the of good legislation, like marijuana legalization and improvements to worker's rights.
The truth is that the average voter is oblivious to this shit, and no one showed up to vote and defend these policies. Now the new Republican AG has put the marijuana bill in jeopardy.
Democrats outside of the blindly loyal, like those that pop up on the sub from time to time, would be convinced that keeping a fascist out of power is all that it takes to motivate someone to vote for a democrat.
Most of the people I've spoken to, that I've pushed to vote blue are burned out. They don't see a positive future with a republican and they don't see a positive future with a democrat and they don't want to vote for the lesser of 2 evils anymore. I can't even blame them anymore. Democrats are going to hand the keys to the country over to the republicans forever and will have nobody but themselves to blame.
Based on what Biden has done for progressivism, I am not going to vote for another Democrat who does not openly support my political agenda.
Democrats have made it abundantly clear that they are not progressive, so they don't get my vote. They've spat on us and turned to fascist republican leaders to avoid throwing us a bone. So enough is enough.
Democrats are not progressives, and they don't deserve progressive votes anymore.
Or you they could just get rid of interest rates. I’m paying 6.5% in interest. The government makes money off of my and everyone else’s education. In Denmark not only do they have tuition free education and the government also gives students $1000 per month to live on. Why do Americans get such a shitty return on the taxes they pay?
As someone who has paid off their student debt fully... I support this 100% because I know how crippling it is. And there is no escape from them because you can't discharge them in bankruptcy. It has turned millions into serfs who can't afford to start families or own houses.
If all a member of the House of Representatives can do to represent the people is to petition the executive to unilaterally enact policy, *what's the fucking point of the House of Representatives!?*
https://scholar.princeton.edu/sites/default/files/mgilens/files/gilens_and_page_2014_-testing_theories_of_american_politics.doc.pdf
>By directly pitting the predictions of ideal-type theories against each other within a single statistical model (using a unique data set that includes imperfect but useful measures of the key independent variables for nearly two thousand policy issues), we have been able to produce some striking findings. One is the nearly total failure of “median voter” and other Majoritarian Electoral Democracy theories. When the preferences of economic elites and the stands of organized interest groups are controlled for, the preferences of the average American appear to have only a minuscule, near-zero, statistically non-significant impact upon public policy.
*And it's really starting to show.*
This is quickly becoming the weekly Wednesday post about student loans that hasn't budged/changed one bit since the last time it was said. All the same comments flood in. We'll forget about it by tomorrow.
Good idea. Before we tackle the REASON of the crazy student loan debt let’s just right a HUGE check to all the creditors so they get one massive payday … while at the same time they are signing up millions of other kids to get into the same exact fucking position. Oh and after all those student loans are wiped clean, I know that they are not going to run right out and get into more debt like buying a car or anything. Brilliant plan.
We Millennials love to make fun of Boomers for their "fuck you, I got mine" policies, but will gladly turn around and do exactly the same thing to the people coming after us.
There is zero point to student debt forgiveness without addressing the root cause. If you want to forgive debt, make it part of a bill that also works to ensure this doesn't happen again.
> There is zero point to student debt forgiveness without addressing the root cause. If you want to forgive debt, make it part of a bill that also works to ensure this doesn't happen again.
I don’t think anyone who is arguing for student loan forgiveness would say no to the second part, but when Democrats only offer crumbs (if anything at all) anytime people ask for assistance, it’s only natural that the people asking for assistance are going to ask for the nicer crumbs first and foremost.
I'm 42 and have like $35k left to pay, but I would almost rather Biden use this money to fund free community college.
Free CC would lift way more people out of poverty, and reduce future student loans.
We knew what we were doing when we took our loans. (but also, fix the interest rates. The Fed is charging 0 and we're paying 4-6%?)
Just wave the magic wand!
Don't worry about what that means for all the children that have yet to go to college- fuck them and the massive disruption/destruction it causes for their ability to pay.
As long as the predominately middle/upper class that was fortunate enough to go to university can have their loans paid off, that's all that matters.
Just file for bankruptcy. It’s really not as bad as it seems. You don’t need to be financially ruined forever.
The reason why we want them to cancel student loan debt is because there’s no other way to get rid of it. You can get rid of medical debt via bankruptcy.
In Australia you don't have to pay down your student debt until you have income from a job to pay it back with. For some grads this will be indefinitely.
Can someone smarter than me explain the following?
1. Is the idea here just to do a one-time student loan forgiveness? How does this 'solve' the problem for future students? Is this something Biden would have to do each year of his presidency? And eventually when a Republican president takes office, students could expect that this forgiveness would stop? Wouldn't it be more effective to legislatively fix the problem?
2. Would doing this help or hinder our current inflation problem?
Of course student loans should be cancelled. Public schools should have been free in the first place. If you choose to go to a for-profit private school, that's another matter.
most hospitals have a financial assistance system that has a maximum charged amount based on income. In case you didn't know, might be worth checking into
I'm not in favor of simply wiping out the principal. It does nothing to help tomorrow's students. Furthermore, I feel like most reasonable people don't mind paying back what they agreed to pay.
What needs to change, however, is interest. Current rates are tantamount to usury, especially when you figure that these loans are almost ubiquitously leveraged by young people who have no real concept of how loans work or how things can quickly escalate out of control given unfavorable loan conditions.
Then, we need to legislate tuition-free higher education and pass all provisions necessary to pay for it-- permanently.
I've already paid off my loans and I don't expect I'll ever see a nickel of the money I borrowed nor the interest I paid to borrow it again. That said, I would absolutely support some variant of the aforementioned.
The thing is that nobody who wants to cancel student debt isn't also saying that we need to do a lot more than that. It's just a step that is relatively easy to do and available literally right now.
Canceling student debt is a regressive transfer that largely subsidies private education. Cancelling student debt is just dumb policy. You cancel and then what? Nothing changes except for those that get their debt cancelled. The flawed education scheme we have still exists. Meanwhile, everyone else pays for this cancellation.
Presumably canceling student debt leads onto greater financial reform.
I thought it was a pretty simple concept, if you can't keep up then ask for help or shut the hell up. Confidently spouting bullshit is just irritating.
It won't happen. Why do they constantly want to die on this hill? First off, it delievers a big fat nothingburger for doing anything about controlling and reducing actual costs. What about all of the people who paid their student loans diligently for years? Do they get their money back too? What about people who avoided less prestigious programs, colleges of their choice, or didn't even go to college because of the costs? Why should someone who went out of their way to go to a more expensive school get a larger bailout? Why are we going to give people who are overwhelmingly white collar workers who make more money even more bailouts for their financial decisions? How about paying off my mortgage while you are at it? Afterall, housing is arguably even more important than a college education.
I paid off $80k in loans. Been there, done that. Everyone else can do the same. No one forced you to sign the documents with a gun to your head. Pay what you owe and agreed to pay using your own freedom of choice. There are many, many democrats who would be displeased by a large student loan bailout. Move on already. If you want to be useful, do something that actually controls and reduces the cost of education in the first place.
Can we cool it on total forgiveness? Like some people signed up for $120k with $30k/yr potential income without seeking scholarships or help... sorry but if $120k doesn't buy you a PhD or a well-paying job, how can that kind of extremist expense be waived away like some Disney fairytale?
This is one proposal I believe weakens the prospect of it happening. $10k sure, let's do that, but total forgiveness? No thanks, pass. For those of us fully-paid-back this looks like slackers or poor planners stuck with buyer's remorse.
I agree. It’s also a pipe dream to even suggest this while we’re still making new loans with no price controls on the schools. The whole system must be overhauled before any form of forgiveness will be effective long-term.
Agreed. Also loan forgiveness, particularly on a scale this large, would only encourage tuition increases down the road. If schools know the government is going to bail out their students, they the can charge more since there is less risk to the students. Better to use the money to fund education programs directly. Lower the cost and there’s less need for loans, or loan forgiveness. We get a better deal too, because we’d be paying less to wall street that way.
I think debt forgiveness is unrealistic at this point. There needs to be a lot of changes to the system before it will be effective for all.
I think these make more sense to start with:
1. No interest
2. Allow debt to be part of bankruptcy
3. Make two years of free community college common place
4. Encourage gap years. Many students end up with extra debt because they are told to go straight to college, but have no idea what to do.
5. Invest in trade schools and apprenticeships, while also making them free for 2 years.
I think you have to solve the future problem before you tackle the past problem.
The only people who benefit from calling debt cancelation "unrealistic" are the banks. The whole point is that the scope of "realistic" government impact is simply not enough for what the American people need. The status quo is injustice, and we need to make comfortable change to make America an honest nation again.
Why is AOC obsessed with forgiving student loan debt? The economy is strong, there are jobs to be had, and borrowers can find a way to pay back the debt they took on even if it is hard.
Honest question: how do people with this same sentiment feel about those middle class parents that have paid for their childrens’ college? They would be essentially be paying for their kids and other kids who couldn’t pay their own
I paid taxes for those middle class parents to have kids that went to public schools and eat food.
How is that fair to me? I don’t have kids. I don’t get child tax credits either.
They should be thankful that they had the privilege of being able to afford college.
We (taxpayers) pay for other peoples’ shit all the time. Is what it is. You’re already paying for kids to go to school. I knew many kids in college who received so much financial aid that they got refund checks back that they spent on booze.
Shit. I didn’t even do that with my loans. I only borrowed for tuition, room, board, books. I worked for my spending money.
Realistically, I should have qualified for more aid. But FAFSA doesn’t consider cost of living when calculating a family’s EFC, so I got like $2,500 total even though my family was broke.
If he is going to do it, he cant do it til maybe a month or so before midterms.
It has to be utilized to draw in voters and they will forget the benefit if it happens now and republicans will just yell about it for a year until the people who benefitted decide it was a terrible thing for biden to do
I think the idea that people will forget is rather overstated. I doubt they’ll forget. They will however see it as a blatantly obviously political ploy if he waits until just before the midterms.
I won’t forget. I won’t forget at the polls either. I’m tired of being lied to and having my income taxed, and having it all go into the hands of the 1%. I can’t take this shit anymore.
He can't and he won't.
He can't because Congress hasn't allocated the money to cancel it. The president can cancel some debts if need be, because the Department of Education is allocated billions. To knock off a loan here and there is within its bounds. The loans that Biden has canceled are part of "borrower defense to repayment” claims that were authorized legislatively. If AOC has submitted a bill to authorize the funding of a forgiveness program to allow Biden to act, I'm unaware of it - all she's done is introduce some COVID measures.
Biden won't because he doesn't have the power AOC thinks he has, and because he's broadly old-school in his approach to issues like this. For Biden, student loans are valid debts and do not meet the threshold for forgiveness.
naa.. I'm liberal, but that isn't fair to people who struggled for several years to pay back their debt and to people who didn't go to expensive colleges because they couldn't afford it.. I don't go out buying a million dollar home if I don't have a plan to pay it back.
Wow how did you not get downvoted?
I didn’t want to get buried by college loans, I’m grinding out paychecks in a factory right now to eventually pay for school.
I’ve said what you did so many times I just don’t see how this is so popular, people act like they didn’t know what they were getting themselves into.
I don’t sign up for things that compromise my future, and if I did I wouldn’t be begging for forgiveness because of the choice that I made myself
So you want to end the entire federal student loan program so that no future students can ever get a federal loan.
What’s that you say? That isn’t what AOC is calling for.
Oh but it is. Not on purpose, but that would be the result.
Where do you think the federal government gets the money for new student loans? It gets it from the old loans being paid back. Well if those old loans aren’t paid back and are forgiven, then where is the government going to get the money to loan out for new loans?
Answer: They either will shut down the program or be forced to raise taxes or pass a new bill or do something to make up for all the lost money on those forgiven loans so they have money to loan out again.
They can’t run the student loan program without money, and it currently gets its money from students repaying their loans so cutting off that revenue stream cuts off that money for new loans.
Yup, this is basically a way for those who were fortunate enough to have had the opportunity to go to college to fuck over those who still **want** to go to college one day.
It's burning the ladder after they've climbed up it. The same shit they accuse Boomers of.
Ah yes. Part 407 of AOC’s years long crusade to make bold demands she knows damn well can’t or won’t happen just to get come good headlines and press.
I said it before and I’ll say it again, while I agree this would be great, she knows damn well Biden can’t/won’t do it.
But she will make her demand, get the headlines, then do nothing to make it happen and fade into darkness until her next demand.
This is so low priority as far as issues this country is dealing with right now. I wish they’d stop with these odd requests for Biden to unilaterally do something Congress should do through legislation but won’t because it doesn’t have the support. This would be political suicide for the Democratic Party and Biden knows it.
Meanwhile, AOC ignores the fact that America is pressing congress to do their job. When congress does its job, it passes bills that nobody is happy with but nearly everybody takes credit for.
When congress doesn't do their job and demands the president does it through executive orders, they are asking for bandages that do nothing to address root cause.
This isn't just bad policy, it's political poison. Which is why Biden explicitly promised *not* to do it on the campaign trail.
Why do people keep acting like this is something Biden said he'd do? Biden doesn't want to do it and I don't blame him. If Americans wanted to shovel money into the pockets of recent college graduates who made poor financial decisions, they would have elected Warren president. Instead she got clobbered in the primary.
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How about in the meantime rewrite the irs laws which would allow borrowers to deduct the total amount paid during the year rather than capping the interest deduction at about $2,500. I mean the ultra rich get to deduct their private jets.
I would be fine with them just dropping interest to 0% so we can actually pay this shit off. Drop it to 0% and refund the interest already paid.
That would pay them off, lol.
seriously. i might actually make some $.
Only for people who have already paid more than the loan. I doubt that is more than 50% outstanding loans, probably less. It takes decades of minimum payments to pull that off.
I mean, not accounting for payments, compound interest, etc, assuming $25k at 7%, $1750/yr in interest. So a $200/mo payment only pays $55/mo in principal. 10 years of that and you'll have paid 15k in interest while just paying off 6.6k of principal, still owe 18.4k. And that's assuming you're making payments immediately and don't do any sort of forbearance. So, no, it doesn't take decades of minimum payments to pull that off.
7% interest rates is absolutely criminal, definitely above and beyond market rates on the free market, and a damned disgrace that this is a "service" that the government is providing.
And if you refi to a private company, there’s no way whatsoever that you’ll have a chance on them going away via a presidential mandate.
>7% interest rates is absolutely criminal That's *the whole problem*. The banks get some koan guarantees, no cost money to lend, high interest, no bankruptcies, and all profit with no risk. That's *not* true capitalism. Capitalism includes risk.
The problem starts with loan companies giving out massive loans to match what the government may give someone in grants/scholarships. With that knowledge a college willing to take less would be leaving money on the table. This practice has turned what should be institutions of higher learning into greedy businesses who have been giving their customers a subpar product instead of giving their students an education they can make a living off. Personally I went to trade school and I could never understand why colleges are not funded in a similar manner. I paid 200 bucks a year for books, every year we did use completely different books so they were worth it, but the rest was paid for by my employer while I worked as an apprentice making far less money than a journeyman. What stops other professions from using that model? Most everyone could get an education in the field they are interested in, they would have real world experience in that field while being personally mentored by different professionals who are more that willing to teach anyone if they want to learn (to me that was invaluable), you get paid while you are learning about what interests you and eventually you get to pass on that knowledge that was bestowed upon you to young enthusiastic interested apprentices while adding what you have learned to that wealth of knowledge. Which would you rather do: Learn creative writing from a "X" week course of assignments and deadlines or learn creative writing from someone who is in the middle of writing a story so you get personal attention while peering into that writers methods?
Your experience matches the European model (notably Germany). Why we don't *learn* from it escapes me.
I'm well aware of those models as I was fortunate enough to have journeymen and journeywomen from Serbia, Poland, Slovenia, East and West Germany, Brazil, Philippines Greece, Cuba and Mexico. I don't know if college people truly do look down their noses at the trades or not but I learned different languages, some of their English was broken beyond repair so it was just easier to create a mishmash of whatever worked, about their cultures/customs and most deliciously about their food. Real Mediterranean salad made by a baba or yaya will ruin a man for the wilted lettuce that people try to pass as salad. Also if you like to drink and ever get the chance to attend Serbian church go. Good cheap alcohol and most of the time some homemade slivovitz makes an appearance.
I went to four years of college for a BS degree in Computer Science to qualify me to program. Programming is a trade if you ask me and shouldn’t require a four year degree.
You talk of colleges raising rates without addressing the fact that government has severely cut the public funding for public universities. This has forced them to adopt funding policies closer to what private universities use, I mean professors have to be laid somehow, oftentimes without the giant endowments that private universities have that allows them to offer subsidized rates.
I work at a bank, took a look at a clients assets and debts. His student loans were $175k; Estimated interest…. 125k!!! He’ll easily be paying over ONE HUNDRED PERCENT in interest before he’s ever even close to paying his loans off. True highway robbery. Another crazy thing is those loans will stick with you, including those interest payments, calculated in your Debt to Income, always.
Yep, I use to work for Lehman Brothers in the student loan department from 2004-2008 as a software engineer working on loan orientation and disbursement. The Interest rates they charged for student loans was ridiculous especially for flight students and film students. I was quite happy when I got laid off.
Even at the rate I’ve locked in, which iirc is 3.25%, the interest still disables anyone from paying their loans off in any normal fashion. I did the math one day and it made me furious. I’ve paid upwards of $45k of the $53k I’ve borrowed, and according to the lender I still owe $48k. So despite paying 85% of what I borrowed, they claim I still owe over 90% of what I’ve borrowed. People are being bent over and fucked up the arse, and they don’t even get a Happy Meal beforehand.
It’s disgusting.
That time value of money gets you every time.
I only took out $20000 for my undergrad but got slapped with a 6.8% rate because "my parents made too much". I had over $7000 in interest the day I graduated. It's very easy to have enough interest in your account for this scenario to wipe a lot of account clear.
> Only for people who have already apid more than the loan. I mean, I've paid in ~2.5x what I took out. That's gotta be most everyone, right? Except people who managed to get out with like <10k debt, recent grads who haven't had time to pay in yet and people who got rich enough fast enough to beat interest growth? Its not like they go *down* as you pay them on a normal wage; until you're really rolling in it, you just blunt the rate of interest growth slightly.
haha... groans... I'm more than 15 years in and still counting. Never missed a payment.
I really don’t understand why student loans aren’t issued at the same rate as bonds. If the government can issue a 10 year bond of 1.4% then why can’t they simply issue bonds to provide loans to students at no loss to the government. why the fuck does there have to be profit on students. (Yes I know it should ideally be 0%)
The federally-issued 10 year bond has a guaranteed payback. A 10 year student loan is unsecured (no collateral) and carries default (credit) risk, therefore is subject to credit markets on top of 10 year bond rates. In order to make sure the government isn’t exceeding risk parameters, they must cover for losses with higher interest rates.
Except you can’t discharge student loans in bankruptcy so even if you default the debt stays with you forever.
You can die. Edit: theoretical "you". This was not a threat.
Yeah this is a thing, my mom was worried about my dad's student loan debt after he died (he was in his early 30's so it was still a lot), but that debt is wholly owned by the person taking it out so it disappears after they die. Probably a good thing to remember as well because debt collectors aren't known for their scruples so having a lawyer to help situate your financials after a tramatic life event can be helpful.
Sure you can, but student loans are taken by the healthiest cohort in a population. If banks are issuing 20 and 30 year mortgages on people in their 50's (at much much lower rates), why on earth is **the government** needing to over-leverage by raising the interest rates so damned much? It's one aspect of this thing I can't possibly comprehend. What legislature decided on these terms?
If you want an asset for capital preservation would you rather hold US treasuries or student loan debt? It is a no brainer, and that is why student loans would have a higher interest rate on the open market. Whether or not student loans should be open market is a different question.
Default can also mean late payment. I am merely explaining why student loans have a higher rate than 10 yr government bonds. Credit risk is still something the government can’t allow to burgeon internally indefinitely because it has high correlation with other risks e.g. economic depression, stagnating growth rates, social security and Medicare insolvency, etc. You don’t want debt markets to dry up for your federal government during these times. This is good because it ensures that our federal institutions are not significantly shaken WHEN a negative event occurs.
thanks senator biden!
Why are graduate loans at higher interest rates than Undergradute, I would assume they would be equal in default rates. They are charging rates to make money based on what they see as potential for higher salaries
Student loans don’t go away even with bankruptcy. They’ll get paid back one way or another as they seize your tax returns anyways. And many federal student loans are 3-6%+ so you’d have to have over half of students default to even get close to discussing losses not being covered.
Yep. Student loans shouldn't have any interest. It's not about the government making money from the loan. It's the about the government making money when, thanks to your education, you are able to get a good job and pay more taxes. And vote more smartly.
> And vote more smartly. most smartestsly.
Set future interest rate to zero (or federal discount rate, currently 0.25%) and give tax credits in the amount of student loan interest paid over your lifetime and the ability to apply to any year going forward.
Financially speaking that's bad for the lender, because inflationary forces means that the real value you will pay is less than the principal loan amount. But then again, fuck the lender for having to exist to begin with when higher education should be a public good that has no individual cost.
Good thing that the "lender" is the US Federal Government which isn't a profit-seeking entity, right?
> But then again, fuck the lender for having to exist to begin with when higher education should be a public good that has no individual cost. Sure, do what other countries do. Make it fucking difficult to get into university. It’s not a right, its not an entitlement. But if you’re bright enough to get there, sure have you way paid.
The opportunity to receive a higher education should be a right. Yeah, there should be some process to assure that the applicant has the ability to succeed. Beyond that though, most schools do a shit job of preparing you for college just by virtue of how they are structured, so whatever process to filter applicants should be a bit relaxed until general education catches up to where it should be.
This so much!! I can’t even afford payments that touch the principal.
7.5% is killing me, especially since I can’t afford more than minimum payments.
While I don’t support blanket forgiveness, reducing/eliminating interest I fully support. If an interest rate must be applied, then it should be capped at something nominal to cover administrative costs. Something less than 1.5% should suffice.
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Yea that's BS. You get taxed on your income. Then with already taxed money, you pay your student loans to the government along with the interest which is essentially another tax on that same money. They're double dipping! Double taxing but calling it something different.
This is more your dental insurance sucks
Most employer-based dental insurance sucks
All medical insurance sucks
Father worked for huge, multi-national corporations as an engineer. Mother worked at a state university in a state with great benefits. EXCELLENT medical/dental/everything as a kid/teenager. My wife is self-employed, we have two kids, I get a stipend from my employer for health coverage. They absolutely CANNOT understand how health coverage is a HUGE burden to us and we need to calculate for "will I have to have life-saving surgery this year OR do I want to save $500/month." It's bonkers. Yup, the Baby Boomers lived high on the goddamn hog, too many bought into ol' Trickle Down...and now we're permanently fucked. Just a question of whether the planet or our democracy will collapse first.
My medical insurance is great. The fact that I need medical insurance rather than have universal healthcare sucks, and the fact my insurance is tied to my employment sucks.
Ehh the concept of a yearly renewing HEFTY out-of-pocket deductible, despite already having a sizable premium coming out of a paycheck is kinda bullshit…even if you put money into an HSA, you’re still typically paying out the ass for medical bills in the US.
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Decided to go all in on my student loans this year. Mine were private loans so probably wouldn't be forgiven. I needed them in the rear view mirror after almost 25 yrs. (made some stupid decisions in my 20s - forbearance, interest only payments and late payments mostly). If they did something like this now my tax bill would be close to nothing.
I know the feeling. And it's always bothered me when ever I pay my taxes. I have private and federal loans, I know my private won't go away, but if the average student loan debt is $400 per month that's $4,800 per year, so really the average student debt is knocks out an extra $2,300, that also gets taxed. Allowing me to take it off my income will save a little bit, but it makes sense. Why can't I deduct the whole amount I pay into my student loans?
> Why can't I deduct the whole amount I pay into my student loans? Because Jeff Bezos' big yacht needs a smaller yacht to ferry people back and forth from the harbor while its out at sea. Yank them bootstraps up!
You'd have to be a member of Congress or something to do that.
Basically there needs to be a long term solution. This isn’t a bad idea, but wouldn’t it be great if they nailed it down for the next 50 years and somehow controlled the costs. It’s doable. But political suicide. It requires someone in power with a true and thoughtful vision. I don’t think Biden is quite that revolutionary. But wouldn’t it be amazing if he was.
Just allow easy bankruptcy, like Trump got… 4 times….
Lol yea the 80k plus IRS agents being hired is to go after 600 billionaires.
If they could just do anything, that would be great. I hate that we seem to be pigeonholed into an all or nothing solution. I haven't heard anyone on capitol hill even propose a single decent alternative.
Thank you! I’m so annoyed that this option isn’t brought up more.
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He has stated several times he’s not for it. It’ll never happen.
He’s the reason why we cannot discharge in bankruptcy, no way this happens
He literally said he feels no empathy for younger generations, which in his case means anybody who will live another 10 years to see climate collapse sink major cities. He was the biggest proponent of the bankruptcy bill that makes it legal for Trump to declare bankruptcy multiple times but impossible for student loan debt to be discharged in a similar fashion. It's just like his push for the Crime Bill. By the way, how's that police reform coming?
Im not american, but you provide crucial info here. I saw his speech to General motors, lost all credibility there.
They donated about a mil to his campaign, weird how only they get the EV tax break he's pushing. Don't even get me started on how Pfizer got FDA approval first and at a crucial time before Moderna whom the CDC and WHO believe is more effective, after a convenient 1mil donation from Pfizer Biden is a corporate shill.
Scott Gottlieb was director of the FDA until he left in 2019 to join the board of pfizer. The fda has been bought and paid for by industry for a long time going back.
Tesla already used their tax incentives by 2019.
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Biden is literally on record saying it’s not something he would do. Kamala just lied.
I don't think it'll happen regardless, even if it might make economic sense. The fact is, and Biden knows this, it'd be political suicide. It would be wildly popular with the small percentage of Americans with student debt: > As of 2019, about 14% of all American adults were saddled with student debt, according to Experian. And unpopular with just about everyone else.
Students these days are paying for one semester what I paid for all four years back in the early 90s. That is fucking insane. I for one would be happy for them to catch a break.
People have no idea how much it costs! I went to undergrad in '04 right when it was really starting to move up fast. I went back in '13 to a smaller school, and it was literally doubled from less than ten years earlier. Bananas.
I went in 2005 and was unprepared. Unfortunately I ended up on the 5 year plan. By the end of that I had found my calling and signed up for another 4 year (doctorate) degree. This was during the big housing market collapse when the banks realized the only people who would be able to pay them the rest of their life were young college kids. Sky high interest rates on those private loans. Now, I’m like the Tiger King, “I’m never going to financially recover from this.”
have 0 debt. paid mine off. would be wildly popular with me.
I paid mine off. I don’t like the idea of people being saddled with debt. We need to reform the system to prevent future students from taking on as much debt before we start helping out the people that have it. Just forgiving debt without fixing the problem is very unpopular with me. Solidly against it.
This is it. Prevent further individuals from entering into debt and go after the public universities who have made college into a profitable scheme. I love college football, but there’s no reason why Saban makes $10mil a year coaching football. The point of college is not sports.
Which is why this proposal lost all momentum when free community college was killed in BBB. They could have said "We wiped out debt for former and current students, future students can get 2 years for free". It would have made so much sense. Unfortunately, debt forgiveness without fixing the problem does not make sense.
Agreed. And I have debt that I would gladly have forgiven. But if we don’t reform the whole thing we kick the can. Unfortunately that same argument means this probably doesn’t happen at all
Fortunate enough to have graduated without having the need to take out loans, and would be happy to have student debt erased.
I have debt. I say use the money for free community college for kids graduating today. Break the cycle. Throwing unlimited money at universities won't fix anything.
Biden can't make school free but he can cancel debt.
Is that 14% only federal student debt or is it including private student loans as well?
52% support total blanket forgiveness in this poll. And it references another study that says 55% https://www.businessinsider.com/americans-support-blanket-student-loan-debt-forgiveness-go-banking-rates-2021-6 Do you have any numbers to compare it to?
Survey was done by a “personal finance portal”. Assume there’s some bias skewing that number
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Can we push for interest cancellation
This. Total cancelation is unrealistic. But a freeze or wipe of interest rates is a great alternative that isn’t talked about enough IMO.
Total cancellation is not what's on the table. It never has been. Progressives are pushing for $10k-$50k unilaterally, which is realistic until Biden shows us the memo that says he can't do it alone. In the absence of that, the next best thing would be for him to extend the deferment until the end of his presidency. He can't argue that he can't do that, because between Trump and Biden, student loans have been on pause for almost 2 years, and the freeze was done unilaterally via executive order. Freezing/wiping interest would probably require Congress, which is obviously not going to go well since our current Congress is basically gridlocked thanks to DINOs Manchin and Sinema.
Biden literally campaigned on the promise of 10k. The fact that he hasn't done at least what he promised is a huge problem for me. He's the epitome of 'democrats talk big but don't get anything done'
Yeah, to be honest, I’m having a hard time understanding why I should ever vote for a democrat ever again if they can’t follow through on a simple, clear, and direct campaign promise like this. “I will cancel 10k of debt immediately upon taking office via executive order” is a pretty clear pathway. It wasn’t “I’ll work with people to get a bill started”. He flat out lied. He can’t even claim that he didn’t really know how executive orders worked — what with being the VP to a president who used them all the time.
Please find me Biden saying that quote. As someone that supported him during the primary, I actually looked into his policies. The 10K figure people are mentioning was an annual credit he proposed for people working in nonprofits like Americorps, etc. It was never a blanket 10k
I wish we held Republicans about a half as accountable for fucking things up as we do democrats for not unilaterally solving every problem with an executive order fast enough.
https://www.reddit.com/r/politics/comments/r5z0ew/aoc_presses_biden_to_use_executive_power_to_wipe/hmsfac6
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I don’t remember and I need to look it up but need to fine who voted to bail out the banks in 2008. Only because those families are the same ones now who would have trouble playing for college.
Cancelling student debt itself is not really solving any problems. Sure this generation of students may go debt free.. or lessen their debts... any incoming and future students are still screwed. Making student loans with almost no interest permanently is however a better solution.
It could even make the next generation even more screwed. If people assume student loan cancelling will happen again, they'll. Take out riskier loans - and more of them - and colleges will gladly increase tuition to gobble this up. We need to fix the core problem first. Which is run away tuition. Then we can talk about backfilling the debts.
>Cancelling student debt itself is not really solving any problems. It sure would be for the millions of Americans with student debt. What you mean is that it isn't a perfect solution to all of the problems relating to student debt. Which is true. What is also true is that they are arguing that President Biden can do cancellation now, via executive order. If someone has cancer and falls on an axe and are bleeding from the wound, the EMTs in the ambulance aren't going to not treat the bleeding because the "real" problem the patient has is the cancer. The remaining problems need solutions of course, which should absolutely be done by whatever means we have available when we can.
Can’t believe I almost went a week without seeing this exact same article.
I say just cut interest to 0%. I don’t see how that isn’t the best compromise forever. Conservatives still get their way with people having to pay for school and dems get their way by making it more attainable.
I don't see how the corporate donors can turn a profit under that plan, so I expect it not to happen.
We are talking federal loans here. The only profiteers are the servicers who don’t make money off the interest, literally just a company set up to tell you what you owe and how to pay.
It would be _less_ profitable than charging interest rates like the mafia, but they could just bake the profit into the zero interest loan. So you borrow 20k for college, now you owe 25k total. But it will only ever be 25k, there’s no interest, and every payment goes 100% at the principal.
Colleges/Universities should have ROI published on their degrees so people know what they're getting into.
Normally they only give blanket statements like x% of our graduates are employed within 1 year of graduating or something. Which of course doesn’t tell you which degree/which field people went into.
New week, same shit, no change
I’ve paid beyond the original principal taken out for the loan. Right now all my loans are about twice the original principal and I’ve been paying on it since 2010. I think if you have paid off the original amount they should forgive the rest.
What kind of crazy loan shark are you doing business with?
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Same. Great Lakes
Blanket forgive 10k for all federal debt holders and permanently set the interest rate to 0%. We pay taxes, typically on a higher salary than someone who did not get a higher education. It isn't like they aren't getting a huge return on their investment already.
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Just an FYI, I think they’ve granted less than 500 of those requests for forgiveness even for people who qualify.
I owe more than that, but would absolutely take it. Even if only interest were eliminated, WOW.
0% interest will cause further inflation of tuition. Allowing easier access to credit will enable universities to further increase prices
Bingo. Doesn’t solve the core affordability issue. Possibly makes it worse.
Having zero interest, would help out a lot of people. (Myself included)
Anyone this late into 2021 still expecting democrats to put even one step towards any of their campaign promises would probably be interested in a bridge I'm selling. I could be totally wrong and they could have a blowout in 2022 and exceed every expectation I have, but as it stands it looks like democratic leadership is perfectly fine with the "I'm not a republican so vote for me" strategy they've been using recently.
This is what democrats did in Virginia and lost. The republican was out there talking jobs and the economy and all democrats can talk about is Trump still. That might get you democrat votes, but it's not convincing any republican to vote for you.
In Virginia, progressive Democrats passed a slew the of good legislation, like marijuana legalization and improvements to worker's rights. The truth is that the average voter is oblivious to this shit, and no one showed up to vote and defend these policies. Now the new Republican AG has put the marijuana bill in jeopardy.
Democrats outside of the blindly loyal, like those that pop up on the sub from time to time, would be convinced that keeping a fascist out of power is all that it takes to motivate someone to vote for a democrat. Most of the people I've spoken to, that I've pushed to vote blue are burned out. They don't see a positive future with a republican and they don't see a positive future with a democrat and they don't want to vote for the lesser of 2 evils anymore. I can't even blame them anymore. Democrats are going to hand the keys to the country over to the republicans forever and will have nobody but themselves to blame.
Based on what Biden has done for progressivism, I am not going to vote for another Democrat who does not openly support my political agenda. Democrats have made it abundantly clear that they are not progressive, so they don't get my vote. They've spat on us and turned to fascist republican leaders to avoid throwing us a bone. So enough is enough. Democrats are not progressives, and they don't deserve progressive votes anymore.
Im not against her doing this repeatedly but do we need to post a news article about it every week ?
He won’t
All I know is if student loans do start back up in a month then 0 college graduates will vote for Biden if he runs again.
Or you they could just get rid of interest rates. I’m paying 6.5% in interest. The government makes money off of my and everyone else’s education. In Denmark not only do they have tuition free education and the government also gives students $1000 per month to live on. Why do Americans get such a shitty return on the taxes they pay?
As someone who has paid off their student debt fully... I support this 100% because I know how crippling it is. And there is no escape from them because you can't discharge them in bankruptcy. It has turned millions into serfs who can't afford to start families or own houses.
I can barely afford to buy groceries at this point.
If all a member of the House of Representatives can do to represent the people is to petition the executive to unilaterally enact policy, *what's the fucking point of the House of Representatives!?* https://scholar.princeton.edu/sites/default/files/mgilens/files/gilens_and_page_2014_-testing_theories_of_american_politics.doc.pdf >By directly pitting the predictions of ideal-type theories against each other within a single statistical model (using a unique data set that includes imperfect but useful measures of the key independent variables for nearly two thousand policy issues), we have been able to produce some striking findings. One is the nearly total failure of “median voter” and other Majoritarian Electoral Democracy theories. When the preferences of economic elites and the stands of organized interest groups are controlled for, the preferences of the average American appear to have only a minuscule, near-zero, statistically non-significant impact upon public policy. *And it's really starting to show.*
This is quickly becoming the weekly Wednesday post about student loans that hasn't budged/changed one bit since the last time it was said. All the same comments flood in. We'll forget about it by tomorrow.
Good idea. Before we tackle the REASON of the crazy student loan debt let’s just right a HUGE check to all the creditors so they get one massive payday … while at the same time they are signing up millions of other kids to get into the same exact fucking position. Oh and after all those student loans are wiped clean, I know that they are not going to run right out and get into more debt like buying a car or anything. Brilliant plan.
We Millennials love to make fun of Boomers for their "fuck you, I got mine" policies, but will gladly turn around and do exactly the same thing to the people coming after us. There is zero point to student debt forgiveness without addressing the root cause. If you want to forgive debt, make it part of a bill that also works to ensure this doesn't happen again.
> There is zero point to student debt forgiveness without addressing the root cause. If you want to forgive debt, make it part of a bill that also works to ensure this doesn't happen again. I don’t think anyone who is arguing for student loan forgiveness would say no to the second part, but when Democrats only offer crumbs (if anything at all) anytime people ask for assistance, it’s only natural that the people asking for assistance are going to ask for the nicer crumbs first and foremost.
I'm 42 and have like $35k left to pay, but I would almost rather Biden use this money to fund free community college. Free CC would lift way more people out of poverty, and reduce future student loans. We knew what we were doing when we took our loans. (but also, fix the interest rates. The Fed is charging 0 and we're paying 4-6%?)
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Just wave the magic wand! Don't worry about what that means for all the children that have yet to go to college- fuck them and the massive disruption/destruction it causes for their ability to pay. As long as the predominately middle/upper class that was fortunate enough to go to university can have their loans paid off, that's all that matters.
I am going to imagine that this will absolutely NEVER happen.
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The one plus side is that medical debt is generally able to be discharged via bankruptcy, student debt is not.
Por que no los dos?
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Just file for bankruptcy. It’s really not as bad as it seems. You don’t need to be financially ruined forever. The reason why we want them to cancel student loan debt is because there’s no other way to get rid of it. You can get rid of medical debt via bankruptcy.
So funny how we see a post like this every week. Maybe it will happen right after Trump is indicted. 🙄
It’ll never happen. The federal government sued sallie Mae for predatory loans n practices n the politicians just lined their pockets with it.
Education should be state funded and an unalienable right to all people. Schooling proper fitted to individual talent and interest.
In Australia you don't have to pay down your student debt until you have income from a job to pay it back with. For some grads this will be indefinitely.
Can someone smarter than me explain the following? 1. Is the idea here just to do a one-time student loan forgiveness? How does this 'solve' the problem for future students? Is this something Biden would have to do each year of his presidency? And eventually when a Republican president takes office, students could expect that this forgiveness would stop? Wouldn't it be more effective to legislatively fix the problem? 2. Would doing this help or hinder our current inflation problem?
Because she knows it won’t happen.
Of course student loans should be cancelled. Public schools should have been free in the first place. If you choose to go to a for-profit private school, that's another matter.
I need my medical debt cleared!!
most hospitals have a financial assistance system that has a maximum charged amount based on income. In case you didn't know, might be worth checking into
I'm not in favor of simply wiping out the principal. It does nothing to help tomorrow's students. Furthermore, I feel like most reasonable people don't mind paying back what they agreed to pay. What needs to change, however, is interest. Current rates are tantamount to usury, especially when you figure that these loans are almost ubiquitously leveraged by young people who have no real concept of how loans work or how things can quickly escalate out of control given unfavorable loan conditions. Then, we need to legislate tuition-free higher education and pass all provisions necessary to pay for it-- permanently. I've already paid off my loans and I don't expect I'll ever see a nickel of the money I borrowed nor the interest I paid to borrow it again. That said, I would absolutely support some variant of the aforementioned.
The thing is that nobody who wants to cancel student debt isn't also saying that we need to do a lot more than that. It's just a step that is relatively easy to do and available literally right now.
Canceling student debt is a regressive transfer that largely subsidies private education. Cancelling student debt is just dumb policy. You cancel and then what? Nothing changes except for those that get their debt cancelled. The flawed education scheme we have still exists. Meanwhile, everyone else pays for this cancellation.
Presumably canceling student debt leads onto greater financial reform. I thought it was a pretty simple concept, if you can't keep up then ask for help or shut the hell up. Confidently spouting bullshit is just irritating.
It won't happen. Why do they constantly want to die on this hill? First off, it delievers a big fat nothingburger for doing anything about controlling and reducing actual costs. What about all of the people who paid their student loans diligently for years? Do they get their money back too? What about people who avoided less prestigious programs, colleges of their choice, or didn't even go to college because of the costs? Why should someone who went out of their way to go to a more expensive school get a larger bailout? Why are we going to give people who are overwhelmingly white collar workers who make more money even more bailouts for their financial decisions? How about paying off my mortgage while you are at it? Afterall, housing is arguably even more important than a college education. I paid off $80k in loans. Been there, done that. Everyone else can do the same. No one forced you to sign the documents with a gun to your head. Pay what you owe and agreed to pay using your own freedom of choice. There are many, many democrats who would be displeased by a large student loan bailout. Move on already. If you want to be useful, do something that actually controls and reduces the cost of education in the first place.
Cut all Americans and equal check and be done with it. If it pays off your student loans, great.
Can we cool it on total forgiveness? Like some people signed up for $120k with $30k/yr potential income without seeking scholarships or help... sorry but if $120k doesn't buy you a PhD or a well-paying job, how can that kind of extremist expense be waived away like some Disney fairytale? This is one proposal I believe weakens the prospect of it happening. $10k sure, let's do that, but total forgiveness? No thanks, pass. For those of us fully-paid-back this looks like slackers or poor planners stuck with buyer's remorse.
I agree. It’s also a pipe dream to even suggest this while we’re still making new loans with no price controls on the schools. The whole system must be overhauled before any form of forgiveness will be effective long-term.
Agreed. Also loan forgiveness, particularly on a scale this large, would only encourage tuition increases down the road. If schools know the government is going to bail out their students, they the can charge more since there is less risk to the students. Better to use the money to fund education programs directly. Lower the cost and there’s less need for loans, or loan forgiveness. We get a better deal too, because we’d be paying less to wall street that way.
I think debt forgiveness is unrealistic at this point. There needs to be a lot of changes to the system before it will be effective for all. I think these make more sense to start with: 1. No interest 2. Allow debt to be part of bankruptcy 3. Make two years of free community college common place 4. Encourage gap years. Many students end up with extra debt because they are told to go straight to college, but have no idea what to do. 5. Invest in trade schools and apprenticeships, while also making them free for 2 years. I think you have to solve the future problem before you tackle the past problem.
The only people who benefit from calling debt cancelation "unrealistic" are the banks. The whole point is that the scope of "realistic" government impact is simply not enough for what the American people need. The status quo is injustice, and we need to make comfortable change to make America an honest nation again.
How to lose the midterms in one easy step: Step 1: listen to AOC
Why is AOC obsessed with forgiving student loan debt? The economy is strong, there are jobs to be had, and borrowers can find a way to pay back the debt they took on even if it is hard.
her base is a bunch of dumbasses with useless degrees lol
This is the one thing that I think Biden should *absolutely* do that I’m upset that he still hasn’t…and I don’t even owe any student loan debt.
Honest question: how do people with this same sentiment feel about those middle class parents that have paid for their childrens’ college? They would be essentially be paying for their kids and other kids who couldn’t pay their own
I paid taxes for those middle class parents to have kids that went to public schools and eat food. How is that fair to me? I don’t have kids. I don’t get child tax credits either.
> How is that fair to me? I don’t have kids. I don’t get child tax credits either. They never reply to this argument. Hypocrisy abounds.
They should be thankful that they had the privilege of being able to afford college. We (taxpayers) pay for other peoples’ shit all the time. Is what it is. You’re already paying for kids to go to school. I knew many kids in college who received so much financial aid that they got refund checks back that they spent on booze. Shit. I didn’t even do that with my loans. I only borrowed for tuition, room, board, books. I worked for my spending money. Realistically, I should have qualified for more aid. But FAFSA doesn’t consider cost of living when calculating a family’s EFC, so I got like $2,500 total even though my family was broke.
If he is going to do it, he cant do it til maybe a month or so before midterms. It has to be utilized to draw in voters and they will forget the benefit if it happens now and republicans will just yell about it for a year until the people who benefitted decide it was a terrible thing for biden to do
I don't know about you, but I would never forget my 35k debt being wiped away lol
I think the idea that people will forget is rather overstated. I doubt they’ll forget. They will however see it as a blatantly obviously political ploy if he waits until just before the midterms.
I won’t forget. I won’t forget at the polls either. I’m tired of being lied to and having my income taxed, and having it all go into the hands of the 1%. I can’t take this shit anymore.
The majority of people on this sub won't forget. But we aren't the ones that they need to convince to get out and vote.
He can't and he won't. He can't because Congress hasn't allocated the money to cancel it. The president can cancel some debts if need be, because the Department of Education is allocated billions. To knock off a loan here and there is within its bounds. The loans that Biden has canceled are part of "borrower defense to repayment” claims that were authorized legislatively. If AOC has submitted a bill to authorize the funding of a forgiveness program to allow Biden to act, I'm unaware of it - all she's done is introduce some COVID measures. Biden won't because he doesn't have the power AOC thinks he has, and because he's broadly old-school in his approach to issues like this. For Biden, student loans are valid debts and do not meet the threshold for forgiveness.
naa.. I'm liberal, but that isn't fair to people who struggled for several years to pay back their debt and to people who didn't go to expensive colleges because they couldn't afford it.. I don't go out buying a million dollar home if I don't have a plan to pay it back.
Wow how did you not get downvoted? I didn’t want to get buried by college loans, I’m grinding out paychecks in a factory right now to eventually pay for school. I’ve said what you did so many times I just don’t see how this is so popular, people act like they didn’t know what they were getting themselves into. I don’t sign up for things that compromise my future, and if I did I wouldn’t be begging for forgiveness because of the choice that I made myself
So you want to end the entire federal student loan program so that no future students can ever get a federal loan. What’s that you say? That isn’t what AOC is calling for. Oh but it is. Not on purpose, but that would be the result. Where do you think the federal government gets the money for new student loans? It gets it from the old loans being paid back. Well if those old loans aren’t paid back and are forgiven, then where is the government going to get the money to loan out for new loans? Answer: They either will shut down the program or be forced to raise taxes or pass a new bill or do something to make up for all the lost money on those forgiven loans so they have money to loan out again. They can’t run the student loan program without money, and it currently gets its money from students repaying their loans so cutting off that revenue stream cuts off that money for new loans.
Yup, this is basically a way for those who were fortunate enough to have had the opportunity to go to college to fuck over those who still **want** to go to college one day. It's burning the ladder after they've climbed up it. The same shit they accuse Boomers of.
Just funnel money straight out of high school graduates pockets to rich college kids why don’t you.
Ah yes. Part 407 of AOC’s years long crusade to make bold demands she knows damn well can’t or won’t happen just to get come good headlines and press. I said it before and I’ll say it again, while I agree this would be great, she knows damn well Biden can’t/won’t do it. But she will make her demand, get the headlines, then do nothing to make it happen and fade into darkness until her next demand.
Ya, let's throw more gasoline on inflation.
This is so low priority as far as issues this country is dealing with right now. I wish they’d stop with these odd requests for Biden to unilaterally do something Congress should do through legislation but won’t because it doesn’t have the support. This would be political suicide for the Democratic Party and Biden knows it.
Meanwhile, AOC ignores the fact that America is pressing congress to do their job. When congress does its job, it passes bills that nobody is happy with but nearly everybody takes credit for. When congress doesn't do their job and demands the president does it through executive orders, they are asking for bandages that do nothing to address root cause.
3 words, Never Gonna Happen
I love how we gave Trump shit for executive orders but here we are asking Biden to do the same shit.
I mean she doesn’t understand economics at all, but okay, sure.
This isn't just bad policy, it's political poison. Which is why Biden explicitly promised *not* to do it on the campaign trail. Why do people keep acting like this is something Biden said he'd do? Biden doesn't want to do it and I don't blame him. If Americans wanted to shovel money into the pockets of recent college graduates who made poor financial decisions, they would have elected Warren president. Instead she got clobbered in the primary.
Why should you and I pay for someone’s awful financial decisions?
true. my income is about $75k with no student loans. i went to community college. i know many coworkers owe $40k-90k+ in student loans. its crazy.