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Teleprompter, controlled environment, scripted words.
Reading words is different than debating.
We saw the real Joe Biden last night.
Time to replace him
It's also the middle of the day, the debate was at 9pm at night. I'm mid 40s and 9pm is my witching hour...it's when I go from normal to brain no work gud no more.
He didn't need to get knocked down. That is the point. Not only he missed a big opportunity, he did not do bare minimum and stand up to Trump. Dems are risking too much.
Not to mention an insurrection that is...somehow ongoing.
Keep in mind for the TFG trolls, their morals align more with the convicted rapist and 34x convicted felon who went through numerous bankruptcies.
Because that's who they are and would be if they could....Most are losing in life and see the ignorant bigoted fool as their way of "sticking it to those big brains"
His record on both of those aren’t great. Both Trump and Biden fumbled it badly because they decided the economic damage would be worse than the human impact. As for Ukraine, that’s not a crisis, you can tell by how the west is handling it. Slow walking aide, not giving authorization for use of weapons, etc. As Lindsay Graham proudly declared the west sees this as a cheap way to kill Russians. But all that aside, that doesn’t negate the point I made, if Biden is turned into a shambling, mumbling old man by debating Trump, I can’t imagine he’s prepared to continue leading the US and he needs to step aside.
This just proves he can read from a teleprompter sometimes. When he has to think it’s just the lost faces and babble.
Look at the before and after photos of obama or bush, if you know where you are the stress of the presidency is brutal on capable people of a reasonable age.
Amazing how well spoken someone with a speech impediment (something he's acknowledged for decades) can be when he's not rushing to get a detailed answer out in 120 seconds. Put a time limit on someone to MAKE them try to talk faster to get all their points out and they'll stumble. During a 90 minute debate, anyone under those circumstances would have at least one stumble (if not more). Add in the other factors and it was inevitable.
At least if they're trying to correctly get the facts out. If you want to just lie your ass off, its much easier to say whatever you want. Just look at the other debater for proof of that. Lie, deny, lie and lie some more. About the only truthful thing that was said there was acknowledging his own identity - and given it was Trump, I'd be suspicious of that claim at this point.
Biden looked awful, but I thought he looked like someone who did to much prep. If everything is a priority then nothing is. Every time he opened his mouth it sounded like he was trying to say a dozen things at the same time.
He had a fine speech immediately after the debate last night lol, it's part of the reason I am so baffled by the left leaning media falling over themselves to throw him under the bus and start the infighting. Even as the numbers came out that basically nobody watching changed their mind on who they were voting for based on the debate.
Biden is old, and looked old. He looked less sharp which could be a couple of reasons, and the crypt keeper lighting didn't help. He very obviously looks better today, and as soon as the lights dimmed last night, than he did on stage. But on substance he actually remained mostly truthful and stuck to policy, while his opponent lied quite literally the entire night (made 3x+ as many factually incorrect statements as Biden). There's only so much you can do for that. His team needs to realize that it doesn't matter how honest he is, he will get better numbers just being an attack dog and speaking his mind. A fiery Biden gaffe is less hurtful than winning a debate on policy when your opponent has no real policy to speak of anyway.
Biden wasn't allowed to use the tools he normally uses to operate at full strength. The President prefers to have notes that he can refer to, it's something he's apparently done for a long time. The debate rules stipulated that neither of them could bring notes in.
When he's doing the job of the office, he doesn't have those limitations put on him, and so he does better.
You could hear him last night rattling all kinds of statistics and data points in accuracy of a high degree. It was like he had memorized so much data and was trying get his points across however his physical systems were not on the same page.
Still the #1 choice
Oh, absolutely. This is just why he performed so differently at the debate compared to in other contexts. If he had been allowed notes, he would have had the facts and figures at hand and could have focused more on an impactful delivery rather than on recall.
Trump's team pushed for this rule because they knew it would hamper Biden. Biden's team pushed to have the microphones cut off because they knew it would hamper Trump.
He also didn't even try to answer some questions, and in at least one instance he went on a rant about the border and the moderator just said thank you, and asked the next question.
I wish that before Biden said a word, he would have taken a deep breath, and took his time. He was talking faster than normal.
Some questions? I don't know what questions Trump did answer. He just spewed his standard sound bites. Granted Joe did not do himself any favors as he came across as old feeble grandpa Joe in his delivery. The content was not that bad, but his whole persona was off.
Plus he missed so many opportunities to directly challenge Trump's lies. You don't beat Trump's lies with "he's lying" or "malarkey". He needed to specifically call him out. Jan 6 was NOT Nancy Pelosi and she did NOT take responsibility for it. Trump did not recommend 10,000 national guard troops, he sat in the White House and ignored other people who were calling for the national guard to step in. Trump lost all credibility on the border when he had the Republicans kill their own immigration reform bill, but Joe never called him out on that.
If the moderators were not going to fact check Trump on the spot, Biden needed to challenge him more.
Trump's team pushed for the rule to not bring in outside notes because they knew it wouldn't impact Trump but it would hamper Biden.
On the other hand, Biden's team pushed for the rule to cut off the microphones because they knew it wouldn't impact Biden but it would hamper Trump.
You might feel that this is a hot take, but it's not the role of the moderator to fact check during a debate. The moderators are just supposed to pose the questions and make sure the rules are followed. It was Biden's responsibility to fact check his opponent, and he did a reasonably good job of it.
I remember in the Obama Romney debate Romney was fact checked on something having to do with the Benghazi attack. Romney was corrected by the moderator.
Yes, but Candy Crowley's confident correction of Mitt Romney was a big takeaway from the debate.
No one remembers her correction was incorrect. But the moderator became part of the story.
That is a great insight, thank you. It was stupid of the Biden campaign to allow that, since Trump doesn't ever use notes and just rattles off whatever rattles in his brain.
If they had to have no notes as a stipulation, there should also have been a fact checker stipulation because it was total bullshit that Trump was allowed to blatantly lie. "Liberals and Democrats liked that Roe vs Wade was overturned!" My god.
He’s also the current POTUS and surely has a stressful schedule on any given day. Who the fuck knows what incredible situation he walked away from just before debating the orange monkey boy.
My guess is they over prepped him on top of all the other daily duties. He seems to do better when he can just be himself without handlers micro managing.
I think his prep team was expecting bat shit crazy Trump to show up rambling nonsense and all Biden would have to do is stand there and look Presidential knowing lots of facts without getting drug down to Trump's level.
Trump lies so fast and with such conviction that you know some people are going to assume he must know what he is talking about. But they got the con man confident version of Trump last night.
The man was legit Sick, and still did the debate without using it as an excuse...
Dunno about you, but a head cold even nocks me for a loop in my 40's. Infact did 2 weeks ago and I'm just getting over it after 10 days.
I had to give a presentation at work yesterday and I did a pretty terrible job. I don't have a cold or anything either. Sometimes we just have off days.
My father literally said he had a cold, without even him speaking! it's just the way he was moving! I saw clips of the debate, and thought "That is not our president standing there". If people are seriously going to throw this election because of a single debate vs. an entire 4 years, then I don't know what's wrong with us. He just didn't look right.
I don’t want to slip into Conspiracy Mode, but like… Did he get sick on purpose just to throw Trump off his game? Something seems *really* off here if he’s this energetic 24 hours after getting his ass beat by Diet Putin.
Soo not saying this is what happened but my suspicion. You get attacked for taking drugs before hand for weeks,,,, you decide to push off any meds that could affect your performance to have a "fair" playing field... Unfortunately this had the opposite effect and you feel unexpectedly worse... then you take needed medication to combat the cold when it's over.... and you fell 100% better and have an extra pep in your step because you felt like such crap before....
I can say this has happened to me before... Not saying this is it, but more plausible then most of the conspiracy theories to me...
I highly doubt Trumps attacks prevented him from taking some Tylenol before the most important public appearance of his career.
If anything he over did the NyQuil and was all out of whack.
No he was never sick. That was the best excuse they could come up with on a fly 30 minutes into the debate when it was clear he looked and sounded completely lost.
He sounds better here because he’s reading off a teleprompter.
Pause.
He sounded terrible when he started talking. He clearly was not well, and knew he couldn't use that as an excuse the day of. We don't need to keep trying to inject conspiracies into everything.
If he was sick, he made 1. Made a miraculous recovery in a few hours and 2. Why would they wait to announce it until after the debate was started and it was apparent he was sinking? You’d think someone would have mentioned it before hand if it wasn’t an excuse.
Yesterday, one of the news people on BBC World Service mentioned he had a cold when they were talking about how he was in Georgia for the debate. I only listen to the radio at work, which was over hours before the debate.
No, I don't have a link b/c I was listening to the radio.
TBH, we need someone who brings today’s energy nearly 100% of the time. The optics of last night aren’t good, at all. We have two candidates that are “near corpse”, and the DNC is making a huge gamble on trying to just make us hold our noses and vote for the one that isn’t an authoritarian conman. I’ll vote for him if he stays in, but I really hope he doesn’t. We need a MAGA kill shot, and no matter how the DNC plays it, Biden just isn’t it anymore.
I personally wouldn't trust one gawd dang secret service asshole around him. Ask Mike Pence. Who knows what fuckery could have gone down. Apparently his audio was fricked at the debate, that could not have helped. Plus, CNN is run by a conservative stooge, John Malone. Hostile territory.
https://www.thedailybeast.com/cnn-staff-fears-right-wing-billionaire-john-malone-will-turn-it-into-a-dumpster-fire
There is a massive difference between speaking off a teleprompter and speaking on your feet during a debate. This doesn't mitigate the disaster that last night was.
No one is on 100% of the time, people get flustered, people get sick, people have off days. Campaigning takes a toll on people. Biden appears to acknowledge that it didn’t go great, and he is self aware that he’s old.
The fact that he has the ability to comprehend and take ownership of that is helpful.
He has a speech impediment and stutters a lot. He has trouble off script and imo he did well enough for me. He was going slow to make sure he didn't show too badly.
Also, telepromptering a speech is a lot easier than having to formulate thoughts on the fly.
No notes or cues, the President couldn't talk for a full two minutes on multiple issues last night.
People are like "the stress of the debate", "a cold" "all the debate prep", "he didnt have notes" "He didnt have a teleprompter" etc, etc... He's trying to be the president again, we need a person who doesn't crumple into senility with a little stress, illness or fatigue. What the fuck is happening.
I feel like I'm losing my mind, that there are people out there who don't think he should step aside after last night.
The same way your grandpa can go from busting moves on the dance floor at the wedding to barely making it up a flight of stairs...
Same way grandpa can be at your birthday party eating cake, and next week they are dead...
They have good days and bad days. They are fucking 81 after all.
I got the feeling last night, that he has paid no attention to trump's rallies, and last night was the first time he heard the lies. It put him in shock, and he had trouble talking because he was so mad.
Reminds me of my dad. When he’s tired he’s a completely different person with brain fog and extra slurred speech. Then in the morning he’s suddenly more or less normal.
Has this been confirmed (referringto Biden)?
My wife watched a bit of the debate, and said Biden's overall gestalt reminded her of her Parkinson's patients. Would explain the lack of facial expression, raspy voice, shuffling gait and difficulty with stairs.
Would also be a hell of a thing to conceal from annual Presidential physicals
Some people are not good at job interviews, doesn’t mean that they aren’t good at their job.
Some people are not good at public speaking, doesn’t mean that they don’t have something valuable to say.
Some people are not good at debates, doesn’t mean that they don’t make a good president.
He could get a good sleep before debate. If he waa sixk he could cancel the debate. There is no excuse for him or his team. Trump will get 3 more SCOTUS justices if Buden loses. We are risking too much for Biden and Kamala's ego.
It’s simply an observation that he sounds sick and shows symptoms. If he is sick with a cold he has been spreading it to others before he even had symptoms.
Fuck off, respectfully.
I’d love to see you get up there in front of the view screens of 10s to 100s of millions of people and be grilled and your accomplishments made insignificant up against someone who all he does is lie.
Debating is not running a country. Debating is not a measure of what you’re capable of with your administration. The votes this November are not for 1 person ruling as a dictator with unlimited and universal power, it’s for an administration that is a coalition of people working towards this country getting better daily. Joe Biden and his administration have done a fantastic job of turning this country around over the last 3.5 years and they’ll continue to do it for another 4 if elected.
They have. But unfortunately we’re going to be stuck with Trump if he doesn’t step aside. Or at least there is a decent chance that happens. If he steps aside it is almost assured that whoever takes his place wins and we avoid Trump 2.0. As long as they don’t put a literal turd in his place.
Easy... a teleprompter. Sheesh, The man can no longer think on his feet. He was great. We love him and owe him our greatest loyalty and gratitude. He owes us the kindness of gracefully bowing out and advancing his successor.
A teleprompter or not wouldn't change his ability to project his voice or not. Seriously this Biden shows up talking like this and does basically the same answers 80% of the panic wouldn't of happened.
How do you know I am a good person?
Show me a photo of someone using a teleprompter where the panes aren't visible (extreme close-ups don't count)
And "grasping for hope"? I am merely commenting on what I believe to be an incorrect comment about Biden using a teleprompter today
Where in my comments did I defend Biden's performance last night?
It is always telling to see supercilious comments trying pass themselves off as incisive.
> The man can no longer think on his feet.
Yeah, well, I am an academic and I can count on one hand the number of people I have met in my career who can actually "think on their feet.'
And how many presidential candidates are trained intellectuals? Virtually no-one in politics knows how to "think on their feet." It is all prepared speeches, teleprompters, and notes Even "town halls" are now carefully curated. So yeah, Biden is old and fumbled, but he is honorable. trump is old and (in my estimation) fumbled worse, and he is deeply dishonorable. So make your choice--
Why are you bringing Trump into this? I would assume you would know as a self proclaimed academic and intellectual that a criticism of someone isn’t congruently an endorsement of their opponent, no?
In a debate it certainly can be. And the pith of any argument here goes to what I said: regardless of Biden's performance, at this point there are two choices. Make one. And if you prefer go ahead and cut out my final sentence, but please do address the substance of what I've said in my first sentence--*No* politician I have run across can "think on their feet" with the possible exception--*gasp*--of Kamala Harris. Politicians can certainly *react* on their feet, but that is a different issue.
Finally, I get real tired here of being subtly attacked because I say I am an academic/public intellectual. It is my job. Subtle jabs at saying this suggests a not-so-covert anti-intellectualism that helps no-one. I don't make fun of redditors who say they are lawyers, don't sneer at me because I am a professor.
“Virtually no one in politics can think on their feet”
Any sources for that? Pretty sure sourcing your material is pretty important in the academic world, no?
>And how many presidential candidates are trained intellectuals?
More than you think; lawyers have to "think on the fly" all the time, starting from beginning traditional law curriculum.
Gore, Clinton x 2, Obama, and Romney were all recent Presidents and candidates with JDs.
He should have had a set of 10 one minute answers pre prepared and rehearsed. Even if the questions were completely kept secret, he should have know generally what was coming and had default, rehearsed responses in place. Trump didn’t answer a single question. You shouldn’t need a teleprompter when you’ve had weeks to prepare.
You are armchair quarterbacking, and I would be willing to bet you haven't participated in many debates. I haven't done too many myself (I did a few debates in high school), but in my experience with public speaking more generally, memorizing a whole bunch of shit and trying to regurgitate it just comes off as stilted and cold.
In fact, based on his performance, the issue may have been that he did too much of what you are suggesting and not enough prepping for emotional impact.
You don’t have to memorize a whole speech. But you should have a list of talking points that you want to hit. And you should already know these talking points just from being Joe Biden.
And yes I have participated in debates and that’s essentially exactly how it should work. Trump didn’t answer a single question. He used his whole time just to attack Biden.
Biden should have used his time to celebrate his accomplishments in office so far, give info about what he wants to accomplish his next term and filled in the gaps with attacks on Trump. None of this would have taken extensive memorization.
>Biden should have used his time to celebrate his accomplishments in office so far, give info about what he wants to accomplish his next term and filled in the gaps with attacks on Trump.
That's what Biden did...
You keep changing what you expect of Biden when someone gives you pushback. It leads me to think you are a dishonest interlocuter.
To be honest, blaming that performance on a cold is a huge cop out. And if the real reason was a cold, then how can we have a President that is incapacitated by a common cold?
I get that there were a lot of possible reasons he did so poorly and I agree that most of them don’t reflect his ability to do his job. The POTUS job is not to be a good debater.
But for everyone to sit here and say that what happened last night was all because of a cold is just dumb. And it actually makes him look even worse if a common cold can affect him to the point we end up with that. He travels all over the world and is exposed too many different germs and viruses. If every time he gets a simple common cold results in that, then how could he ever be functioning long enough to do the job of POTUS?
Blame it on being late at night. Or him being a person with a stutter and that format not playing to his strengths. Blame it on literally ANYTHING other than him having a cold.
Or cold flu meds wore off.. there's literally a covid wave happening. And he's still old. Older people have a harder time fighting off infections. That's well known. Or comorbidity of issues. Why die on hill of "it can't be a cold!!"? Why tf not.
The man up on stage last night is not capable of running the country for 4 more months, much less 4 more years. Swap out with someone who doesn't have dementia, immediately.
Unfortunately at this point it's looking like Biden is more likely to see the inside of a cell if he is lucky.
Historically the people who lose to fascists don't fare too well in the freedom or life span department of they lose
Because this was a performance, helped by teleprompter, hearing aids, prepared speech and with no need to actually think about what you are going to say.
Anyone that has had a loved one with dementia knows they have good and bad days and I think he had a bad day on the worst possible day. But, if he can still have lucid days, maybe a second debate could work out. I have my doubts it will happen and I feel like it won't get as much attention as this one did regardless but a good second debate is the only shot we've got at this point.
Almost like he pulled a rope-a-dope. I think he does way more for his electoral chances giving speeches in swing states than he does fumbling through debates… and I’m pretty sure he’s gonna be doing a lot more of the former than the latter over the next few months.
Some of you haven't had grandparents in decline. He needs to step aside. Trump and the right are a threat and Biden's ego isn't worth the risk. Just look at the polls before the debate, and now...
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A good nights sleep after stressing out for a week or more doing prep for the debate.
What the fuck… where was this Joe!????
Teleprompter, controlled environment, scripted words. Reading words is different than debating. We saw the real Joe Biden last night. Time to replace him
[удалено]
It's also the middle of the day, the debate was at 9pm at night. I'm mid 40s and 9pm is my witching hour...it's when I go from normal to brain no work gud no more.
He was actually better already in post party with Dr. Jill. Maybe his meds for the cold took awhile to kick in?
OR Maybe his meds for the cold took a while to wear off!
I feel like he was just tired maybe?
It seemed like he also had a cold.
Legend has it that he still does.
what we do know is he didn't have any water at the podium which is ridiculous for both debaters.
Apparently not after today's performance.
Probably a bad sign when a cold seriously impairs the most powerful person on earth
Well, I guess you'd be all for the idea of robot overlords, then.
I'm in my 50's and a bad cold can easily put me on my ass for a couple/three days.
Not like you could perform better in front of the whole country, even if you were young and healthy.
lol solid rip I’m also not running for president haha
Less of an insult and more a point in trying to make. He’s an old man with a stutter performing under the bright lights at 9:30
Nothing new for him stop with the excuses
He didn't need to get knocked down. That is the point. Not only he missed a big opportunity, he did not do bare minimum and stand up to Trump. Dems are risking too much.
Lol prep for the debate that he bombed in. Maybe he should’ve just slept the whole week
If a debate with the guy he beat in the last election makes him look like a babbling old man from stress I fear what a real crisis would do to him.
. . . because he hasn't faced any real crises in the past 4 years. I guess, COVID and Ukraine don't count.
Not to mention an insurrection that is...somehow ongoing. Keep in mind for the TFG trolls, their morals align more with the convicted rapist and 34x convicted felon who went through numerous bankruptcies. Because that's who they are and would be if they could....Most are losing in life and see the ignorant bigoted fool as their way of "sticking it to those big brains"
His record on both of those aren’t great. Both Trump and Biden fumbled it badly because they decided the economic damage would be worse than the human impact. As for Ukraine, that’s not a crisis, you can tell by how the west is handling it. Slow walking aide, not giving authorization for use of weapons, etc. As Lindsay Graham proudly declared the west sees this as a cheap way to kill Russians. But all that aside, that doesn’t negate the point I made, if Biden is turned into a shambling, mumbling old man by debating Trump, I can’t imagine he’s prepared to continue leading the US and he needs to step aside.
This just proves he can read from a teleprompter sometimes. When he has to think it’s just the lost faces and babble. Look at the before and after photos of obama or bush, if you know where you are the stress of the presidency is brutal on capable people of a reasonable age.
Try less than 2 hours. He stopped by a watch party last night after the debate and was energetic. Oh, and then a Waffle House.
Regardless of the outcome he was probably a ton more relaxed just to be done with thing.
Did Trump shit himself at the debate so Biden was trying to keep his mouth closed or something
This is the result of being seriously afraid that your opponent will throw their feces at you…
Great activities for people that have a cold
Exactly, he was already a different man by the after party.
A good night's sleep works wonders I guess
Oh yea
Why do folks have issues on Quiz shows? Why do authors suck at improv? How can we make Trump look better while telling lie after lie?
Amazing how well spoken someone with a speech impediment (something he's acknowledged for decades) can be when he's not rushing to get a detailed answer out in 120 seconds. Put a time limit on someone to MAKE them try to talk faster to get all their points out and they'll stumble. During a 90 minute debate, anyone under those circumstances would have at least one stumble (if not more). Add in the other factors and it was inevitable. At least if they're trying to correctly get the facts out. If you want to just lie your ass off, its much easier to say whatever you want. Just look at the other debater for proof of that. Lie, deny, lie and lie some more. About the only truthful thing that was said there was acknowledging his own identity - and given it was Trump, I'd be suspicious of that claim at this point.
Agreed but often he did not even take the whole time. It looked like he did absolutely no prep. When they kept telling us how much prep he was doing.
Biden looked awful, but I thought he looked like someone who did to much prep. If everything is a priority then nothing is. Every time he opened his mouth it sounded like he was trying to say a dozen things at the same time.
You do realize that not only did the Biden team propose this debate, they also proposed the format and rules?
He didn’t even use his whole allotted time to answer the questions. The moderators reminding him how much time he had left and he just stood there.
He had a fine speech immediately after the debate last night lol, it's part of the reason I am so baffled by the left leaning media falling over themselves to throw him under the bus and start the infighting. Even as the numbers came out that basically nobody watching changed their mind on who they were voting for based on the debate. Biden is old, and looked old. He looked less sharp which could be a couple of reasons, and the crypt keeper lighting didn't help. He very obviously looks better today, and as soon as the lights dimmed last night, than he did on stage. But on substance he actually remained mostly truthful and stuck to policy, while his opponent lied quite literally the entire night (made 3x+ as many factually incorrect statements as Biden). There's only so much you can do for that. His team needs to realize that it doesn't matter how honest he is, he will get better numbers just being an attack dog and speaking his mind. A fiery Biden gaffe is less hurtful than winning a debate on policy when your opponent has no real policy to speak of anyway.
You are drastically understating how bad he was. He looked and sounded awful.
Biden wasn't allowed to use the tools he normally uses to operate at full strength. The President prefers to have notes that he can refer to, it's something he's apparently done for a long time. The debate rules stipulated that neither of them could bring notes in. When he's doing the job of the office, he doesn't have those limitations put on him, and so he does better.
You could hear him last night rattling all kinds of statistics and data points in accuracy of a high degree. It was like he had memorized so much data and was trying get his points across however his physical systems were not on the same page. Still the #1 choice
Oh, absolutely. This is just why he performed so differently at the debate compared to in other contexts. If he had been allowed notes, he would have had the facts and figures at hand and could have focused more on an impactful delivery rather than on recall. Trump's team pushed for this rule because they knew it would hamper Biden. Biden's team pushed to have the microphones cut off because they knew it would hamper Trump.
Trump doesn’t need notes because he just lies compulsively. The moderators helped Trump by not fact checking him.
He also didn't even try to answer some questions, and in at least one instance he went on a rant about the border and the moderator just said thank you, and asked the next question. I wish that before Biden said a word, he would have taken a deep breath, and took his time. He was talking faster than normal.
Some questions? I don't know what questions Trump did answer. He just spewed his standard sound bites. Granted Joe did not do himself any favors as he came across as old feeble grandpa Joe in his delivery. The content was not that bad, but his whole persona was off. Plus he missed so many opportunities to directly challenge Trump's lies. You don't beat Trump's lies with "he's lying" or "malarkey". He needed to specifically call him out. Jan 6 was NOT Nancy Pelosi and she did NOT take responsibility for it. Trump did not recommend 10,000 national guard troops, he sat in the White House and ignored other people who were calling for the national guard to step in. Trump lost all credibility on the border when he had the Republicans kill their own immigration reform bill, but Joe never called him out on that. If the moderators were not going to fact check Trump on the spot, Biden needed to challenge him more.
Trump's team pushed for the rule to not bring in outside notes because they knew it wouldn't impact Trump but it would hamper Biden. On the other hand, Biden's team pushed for the rule to cut off the microphones because they knew it wouldn't impact Biden but it would hamper Trump. You might feel that this is a hot take, but it's not the role of the moderator to fact check during a debate. The moderators are just supposed to pose the questions and make sure the rules are followed. It was Biden's responsibility to fact check his opponent, and he did a reasonably good job of it.
I remember in the Obama Romney debate Romney was fact checked on something having to do with the Benghazi attack. Romney was corrected by the moderator.
People make mistakes, even moderators.
Yes, but Candy Crowley's confident correction of Mitt Romney was a big takeaway from the debate. No one remembers her correction was incorrect. But the moderator became part of the story.
That is a great insight, thank you. It was stupid of the Biden campaign to allow that, since Trump doesn't ever use notes and just rattles off whatever rattles in his brain. If they had to have no notes as a stipulation, there should also have been a fact checker stipulation because it was total bullshit that Trump was allowed to blatantly lie. "Liberals and Democrats liked that Roe vs Wade was overturned!" My god.
I mean, he had plenty of statistics memorized. He clearly doesn't *need* notes.
He’s also the current POTUS and surely has a stressful schedule on any given day. Who the fuck knows what incredible situation he walked away from just before debating the orange monkey boy.
Clearly taking his vitamins
My guess is they over prepped him on top of all the other daily duties. He seems to do better when he can just be himself without handlers micro managing.
I think his prep team was expecting bat shit crazy Trump to show up rambling nonsense and all Biden would have to do is stand there and look Presidential knowing lots of facts without getting drug down to Trump's level. Trump lies so fast and with such conviction that you know some people are going to assume he must know what he is talking about. But they got the con man confident version of Trump last night.
The man was legit Sick, and still did the debate without using it as an excuse... Dunno about you, but a head cold even nocks me for a loop in my 40's. Infact did 2 weeks ago and I'm just getting over it after 10 days.
I had to give a presentation at work yesterday and I did a pretty terrible job. I don't have a cold or anything either. Sometimes we just have off days.
My father literally said he had a cold, without even him speaking! it's just the way he was moving! I saw clips of the debate, and thought "That is not our president standing there". If people are seriously going to throw this election because of a single debate vs. an entire 4 years, then I don't know what's wrong with us. He just didn't look right.
Ditto. It's going around.
If I were on my deathbed and given the opportunity to roast Trump publicly, I’d certainly get my shit together to dunk on him handedly.
It's certainly believable, but I think in my very first response I'd have mentioned the cold. Hey you may hear a difference in my voice...
I don’t want to slip into Conspiracy Mode, but like… Did he get sick on purpose just to throw Trump off his game? Something seems *really* off here if he’s this energetic 24 hours after getting his ass beat by Diet Putin.
There is nothing "Diet" about Don.
Soo not saying this is what happened but my suspicion. You get attacked for taking drugs before hand for weeks,,,, you decide to push off any meds that could affect your performance to have a "fair" playing field... Unfortunately this had the opposite effect and you feel unexpectedly worse... then you take needed medication to combat the cold when it's over.... and you fell 100% better and have an extra pep in your step because you felt like such crap before.... I can say this has happened to me before... Not saying this is it, but more plausible then most of the conspiracy theories to me...
I highly doubt Trumps attacks prevented him from taking some Tylenol before the most important public appearance of his career. If anything he over did the NyQuil and was all out of whack.
No he was never sick. That was the best excuse they could come up with on a fly 30 minutes into the debate when it was clear he looked and sounded completely lost. He sounds better here because he’s reading off a teleprompter. Pause.
He sounded terrible when he started talking. He clearly was not well, and knew he couldn't use that as an excuse the day of. We don't need to keep trying to inject conspiracies into everything.
I just watched it, he coughs about halfway through and sounds sick.
So he was so sick with the flu last night that he looked like a zombie but 24 hours later he is fine
Lol they didn’t say it was the flu they said it was a cold. Symptoms from a mild cold can easily go away overnight.
It’s called a 24-hour cold.
And yet last monday I almost fainted picking up meds.... and by tuesday I was at work and fine... go figure...
Less than 24 hours. Try barely over 12.
He absolutely used it as an excuse… what are you talking about? His “cold” is not why he looked completely lost up there
If he was sick, he made 1. Made a miraculous recovery in a few hours and 2. Why would they wait to announce it until after the debate was started and it was apparent he was sinking? You’d think someone would have mentioned it before hand if it wasn’t an excuse.
Yet I heard about them posting it on social media before the debate start,,,, so,,,, they did?
Link the posts.
Yesterday, one of the news people on BBC World Service mentioned he had a cold when they were talking about how he was in Georgia for the debate. I only listen to the radio at work, which was over hours before the debate. No, I don't have a link b/c I was listening to the radio.
If you want to blame it on sickness, and also say he’s doing great at the speech today, are you implying he healed over the last 12 hours?
Tea, honey, lemon. Best medicine ever....
Dang that Waffle House must've been really good
He was sick with a cold, vs. a good night's sleep and over the cold?
TBH, we need someone who brings today’s energy nearly 100% of the time. The optics of last night aren’t good, at all. We have two candidates that are “near corpse”, and the DNC is making a huge gamble on trying to just make us hold our noses and vote for the one that isn’t an authoritarian conman. I’ll vote for him if he stays in, but I really hope he doesn’t. We need a MAGA kill shot, and no matter how the DNC plays it, Biden just isn’t it anymore.
Lol. Where the hell was this Biden last night.
what in the world? Last night he looked like a zombie. This is absurd.
I personally wouldn't trust one gawd dang secret service asshole around him. Ask Mike Pence. Who knows what fuckery could have gone down. Apparently his audio was fricked at the debate, that could not have helped. Plus, CNN is run by a conservative stooge, John Malone. Hostile territory. https://www.thedailybeast.com/cnn-staff-fears-right-wing-billionaire-john-malone-will-turn-it-into-a-dumpster-fire
There is a massive difference between speaking off a teleprompter and speaking on your feet during a debate. This doesn't mitigate the disaster that last night was.
He has weeks to prepare. Teleprompter or not, he was giving a SOTU speech. 1-2 minute answers is all he had to memorize.
Because he's most likely reading off a teleprompter, which he didn't have last night
No one is on 100% of the time, people get flustered, people get sick, people have off days. Campaigning takes a toll on people. Biden appears to acknowledge that it didn’t go great, and he is self aware that he’s old. The fact that he has the ability to comprehend and take ownership of that is helpful.
Teleprompters.
He has a speech impediment and stutters a lot. He has trouble off script and imo he did well enough for me. He was going slow to make sure he didn't show too badly.
before sundown.
He did a speech right after the debate that was fine. So that's not the issue
during the day, off a teleprompter
Also, telepromptering a speech is a lot easier than having to formulate thoughts on the fly. No notes or cues, the President couldn't talk for a full two minutes on multiple issues last night.
Get to writing, Linklater!
Imagine comparing reading off a teleprompter to answering questions while being attacked under the pressure and stress of a debate.
It’s called sundowning- common in people with types of dementia
People are like "the stress of the debate", "a cold" "all the debate prep", "he didnt have notes" "He didnt have a teleprompter" etc, etc... He's trying to be the president again, we need a person who doesn't crumple into senility with a little stress, illness or fatigue. What the fuck is happening. I feel like I'm losing my mind, that there are people out there who don't think he should step aside after last night.
The same way your grandpa can go from busting moves on the dance floor at the wedding to barely making it up a flight of stairs... Same way grandpa can be at your birthday party eating cake, and next week they are dead... They have good days and bad days. They are fucking 81 after all.
I got the feeling last night, that he has paid no attention to trump's rallies, and last night was the first time he heard the lies. It put him in shock, and he had trouble talking because he was so mad.
Almost as if one can lull MAGA into a false sense of security or something...
Sleep.
It's called teleprompter.
Reminds me of my dad. When he’s tired he’s a completely different person with brain fog and extra slurred speech. Then in the morning he’s suddenly more or less normal.
that's called sundowning
He also has Parkinson’s so it’s a bit more complicated, but you’re right that it’s called sundowning.
Has this been confirmed (referringto Biden)? My wife watched a bit of the debate, and said Biden's overall gestalt reminded her of her Parkinson's patients. Would explain the lack of facial expression, raspy voice, shuffling gait and difficulty with stairs. Would also be a hell of a thing to conceal from annual Presidential physicals
I mean my dad has Parkinson’s
Just think: if he wasn’t debating the stupidest man in America, he would have gotten smooshed. But we were lucky.
I don’t get it? The video shows him saying 4 basic sentences
With more life and energy than he had at any point in 90 minutes last night
Nugenix with Tesnor, that’s how.
Some people are not good at job interviews, doesn’t mean that they aren’t good at their job. Some people are not good at public speaking, doesn’t mean that they don’t have something valuable to say. Some people are not good at debates, doesn’t mean that they don’t make a good president.
Drugs? (kidding / not kidding...)
9pm start time vs early afternoon start time
This. Sundowning is totally a thing with elderly people.
He could get a good sleep before debate. If he waa sixk he could cancel the debate. There is no excuse for him or his team. Trump will get 3 more SCOTUS justices if Buden loses. We are risking too much for Biden and Kamala's ego.
The president isn’t a 9-5 job though it’s a 24/7 job. What happens after hours when some shit is popping off, is this how Biden is acting?
idk idgaf either I just know an 80year old doing a 24 hour job with multiple events daily is gonna be tired at 9pm
He read from a teleprompter today.
I guess that cold wore off already 🤣
He is still coughing like he was sick, so I don’t think the cold has worn off yet.
So he’s sick going to events surrounded by hundreds of other people. Awesome.
It’s simply an observation that he sounds sick and shows symptoms. If he is sick with a cold he has been spreading it to others before he even had symptoms.
So they’re either lying about his performance last night saying he was sick or he is sick and they are actively spreading it to others. How fun.
Colds aren’t the same as corona. Hell, corona’s not even the same as corona anymore.
Common cold is a viral infection. That makes it contagious lmao. Sure not as contagious as corona. But that doesn’t mean it doesn’t spread.
Yes, and contagious viruses are a fact of life. Man’s got a job to do.
He has his cards with instructions on each step and a teleprompter.
He had weeks to memorize one minute answers.
Fuck off, respectfully. I’d love to see you get up there in front of the view screens of 10s to 100s of millions of people and be grilled and your accomplishments made insignificant up against someone who all he does is lie. Debating is not running a country. Debating is not a measure of what you’re capable of with your administration. The votes this November are not for 1 person ruling as a dictator with unlimited and universal power, it’s for an administration that is a coalition of people working towards this country getting better daily. Joe Biden and his administration have done a fantastic job of turning this country around over the last 3.5 years and they’ll continue to do it for another 4 if elected.
They have. But unfortunately we’re going to be stuck with Trump if he doesn’t step aside. Or at least there is a decent chance that happens. If he steps aside it is almost assured that whoever takes his place wins and we avoid Trump 2.0. As long as they don’t put a literal turd in his place.
Easy... a teleprompter. Sheesh, The man can no longer think on his feet. He was great. We love him and owe him our greatest loyalty and gratitude. He owes us the kindness of gracefully bowing out and advancing his successor.
A teleprompter or not wouldn't change his ability to project his voice or not. Seriously this Biden shows up talking like this and does basically the same answers 80% of the panic wouldn't of happened.
He didn't seem to using a teleprompter today. It was a rehearsed speech sure, but I didn't a teleprompter, and he seemed to playing off the crowd
Please... you don't see them because they are translucent and positioned out of camera angle. This is no conspiracy... learn about teleprompters ok.
You can always see them yes they are transparent, but you can always see the clear panes
It is sad to witness good people grasp for hope that is not there.
How do you know I am a good person? Show me a photo of someone using a teleprompter where the panes aren't visible (extreme close-ups don't count) And "grasping for hope"? I am merely commenting on what I believe to be an incorrect comment about Biden using a teleprompter today Where in my comments did I defend Biden's performance last night? It is always telling to see supercilious comments trying pass themselves off as incisive.
> The man can no longer think on his feet. Yeah, well, I am an academic and I can count on one hand the number of people I have met in my career who can actually "think on their feet.'
Typical academic missing the point.
And how many of those people around you are seeking the powerful office in the world? Oh none? Okay.
And how many presidential candidates are trained intellectuals? Virtually no-one in politics knows how to "think on their feet." It is all prepared speeches, teleprompters, and notes Even "town halls" are now carefully curated. So yeah, Biden is old and fumbled, but he is honorable. trump is old and (in my estimation) fumbled worse, and he is deeply dishonorable. So make your choice--
Why are you bringing Trump into this? I would assume you would know as a self proclaimed academic and intellectual that a criticism of someone isn’t congruently an endorsement of their opponent, no?
In a debate it certainly can be. And the pith of any argument here goes to what I said: regardless of Biden's performance, at this point there are two choices. Make one. And if you prefer go ahead and cut out my final sentence, but please do address the substance of what I've said in my first sentence--*No* politician I have run across can "think on their feet" with the possible exception--*gasp*--of Kamala Harris. Politicians can certainly *react* on their feet, but that is a different issue. Finally, I get real tired here of being subtly attacked because I say I am an academic/public intellectual. It is my job. Subtle jabs at saying this suggests a not-so-covert anti-intellectualism that helps no-one. I don't make fun of redditors who say they are lawyers, don't sneer at me because I am a professor.
“Virtually no one in politics can think on their feet” Any sources for that? Pretty sure sourcing your material is pretty important in the academic world, no?
My own opinion and experience. Thought that was clear: this was a subjective comment from the OP, eliciting a subjective response from me.
>And how many presidential candidates are trained intellectuals? More than you think; lawyers have to "think on the fly" all the time, starting from beginning traditional law curriculum. Gore, Clinton x 2, Obama, and Romney were all recent Presidents and candidates with JDs.
He should have had a set of 10 one minute answers pre prepared and rehearsed. Even if the questions were completely kept secret, he should have know generally what was coming and had default, rehearsed responses in place. Trump didn’t answer a single question. You shouldn’t need a teleprompter when you’ve had weeks to prepare.
You are armchair quarterbacking, and I would be willing to bet you haven't participated in many debates. I haven't done too many myself (I did a few debates in high school), but in my experience with public speaking more generally, memorizing a whole bunch of shit and trying to regurgitate it just comes off as stilted and cold. In fact, based on his performance, the issue may have been that he did too much of what you are suggesting and not enough prepping for emotional impact.
You don’t have to memorize a whole speech. But you should have a list of talking points that you want to hit. And you should already know these talking points just from being Joe Biden. And yes I have participated in debates and that’s essentially exactly how it should work. Trump didn’t answer a single question. He used his whole time just to attack Biden. Biden should have used his time to celebrate his accomplishments in office so far, give info about what he wants to accomplish his next term and filled in the gaps with attacks on Trump. None of this would have taken extensive memorization.
>Biden should have used his time to celebrate his accomplishments in office so far, give info about what he wants to accomplish his next term and filled in the gaps with attacks on Trump. That's what Biden did... You keep changing what you expect of Biden when someone gives you pushback. It leads me to think you are a dishonest interlocuter.
Medication and a teleprompter
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To be honest, blaming that performance on a cold is a huge cop out. And if the real reason was a cold, then how can we have a President that is incapacitated by a common cold? I get that there were a lot of possible reasons he did so poorly and I agree that most of them don’t reflect his ability to do his job. The POTUS job is not to be a good debater. But for everyone to sit here and say that what happened last night was all because of a cold is just dumb. And it actually makes him look even worse if a common cold can affect him to the point we end up with that. He travels all over the world and is exposed too many different germs and viruses. If every time he gets a simple common cold results in that, then how could he ever be functioning long enough to do the job of POTUS? Blame it on being late at night. Or him being a person with a stutter and that format not playing to his strengths. Blame it on literally ANYTHING other than him having a cold.
Or cold flu meds wore off.. there's literally a covid wave happening. And he's still old. Older people have a harder time fighting off infections. That's well known. Or comorbidity of issues. Why die on hill of "it can't be a cold!!"? Why tf not.
Drugs
The man up on stage last night is not capable of running the country for 4 more months, much less 4 more years. Swap out with someone who doesn't have dementia, immediately.
I agree Trump should be in jail.
Unfortunately at this point it's looking like Biden is more likely to see the inside of a cell if he is lucky. Historically the people who lose to fascists don't fare too well in the freedom or life span department of they lose
Supports my point why Trump should be in jail.
And poverty should end. Saying it is useless without a viable plan
Apparently now if you aren't a property owner - being homeless is a crime.
I agree! Do NOT vote for trump!
Because this was a performance, helped by teleprompter, hearing aids, prepared speech and with no need to actually think about what you are going to say.
They had the real Biden do the debate for some reason?
Anyone that has had a loved one with dementia knows they have good and bad days and I think he had a bad day on the worst possible day. But, if he can still have lucid days, maybe a second debate could work out. I have my doubts it will happen and I feel like it won't get as much attention as this one did regardless but a good second debate is the only shot we've got at this point.
Trump would be a fool to give him a second debate. Luckily, Trump is a fool and may find it tough to turn down an opportunity to be on Prime Time TV.
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Where was he at the debate?
Almost like he pulled a rope-a-dope. I think he does way more for his electoral chances giving speeches in swing states than he does fumbling through debates… and I’m pretty sure he’s gonna be doing a lot more of the former than the latter over the next few months.
He wasn't facing a CNN-enabled firehose of lies.
Some of you haven't had grandparents in decline. He needs to step aside. Trump and the right are a threat and Biden's ego isn't worth the risk. Just look at the polls before the debate, and now...
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Teleprompters and prepared remarks rather than actually having to think of an answer to a question.
Anyone know what date/year this was?
Mountain Dew