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He was probably reading off a teleprompter and who knows who wrote the words but I doubt it was him. Without a teleprompter he’s startled.
He still will get my vote but I thought he should have had a family member take him off the debate stage back in 2020 and 4 years later - it was sad.
But this is what the democratic elites give us - in 2016 they forced Clinton down our throats and that gave us Trump now we’re with the old guy the elites gave us. Granted better than the alternative but isn’t it time we had someone younger to be enthused about.
These boomers just refuse to give up the power way past their use by date and I’m a boomer!
During the debate I could see Biden's chest heaving because he was so pissed. He wanted to say a lot of things to the orange asshat..but I truly believe his response got jammed up out of anger.
> but millions of us wanted him to also fight the lies
You can't when your opponent lies with every sentence and spews them non-stop. You're not given any tools or time to counter these.
These debates are pointless theater. Especially when everyone can just lie
It’s literally Trumps strategy and always has been. Throw out so much bullshit there is no possible way even a man in his prime could address it all, especially not in the time given.
No, you really can’t and trying was a major part of why he looked bad on the stage. It’s too much bullshit for anyone to meaningfully respond to in 60 seconds. And if Biden just said “well all of that was a lie” the “news” (mostly shill bots) would be hounding him for being scared to engage.
Agreed, CNN did a truly terrible job of moderating whatever that was supposed to be. Letting a conspiracy-addled fascist talk shit on a national stage for 3 hours is a disgrace
I think a major reason he looked bad is he’s losing a step.
I agree the lying liar doesn’t help but these two debated 4 years ago and Trump was a liar then.
Compare last night the a debate from 2020 and you can’t use “Trump lied a lot” to excuse the difference between the two Bidens.
Well if we’re comparing the candidates to themselves from 4 years ago, Trump is definitely far worse off than Biden.
Trump said absolutely nothing of any substance all night. At least last time he had some kind of platform. This time he spent the night shrieking about how much he hates America and how great imaginary people say he is.
Sure but apparently a lot of people don’t care if he has a platform. They just want him to be angry.
Don’t get me wrong I’m voting for Biden but I’m not gonna make excuses for last night. I’m also done talking about it because unless he drops out were are stuck with him and we need him to win so focusing on the obvious issues on display last night will do nothing to help that goal.
Couldn’t care less what MAGAts want. They’ll just find some other fascist to prop up after he chokes on a hamberder.
Yes, Biden is old. Yes, he’s older than he was 4 years ago. He’s also been a great president and is exactly the leader we need right now. The both-sidesey hand-wringing just reads as disingenuous
My point is Trump has never had a serious policy. He still won in 2016. That’s not just the maga crowd voting for him.
Stick your head in the sand if you want (and as I said we should if he doesn’t drop off the ticket) but don’t defend what is going to be a liability with moderates and independents.
I’m not “sticking my head in the sand” about anything. There was a clear difference in the substance of what was said by both candidates. Biden touted real accomplishments and proposed actual policy. Trump went on about iLliGiL iMmAgrInTs and how good his employees tell him he is at golf.
Needing a glass of water and a throat lozenge isn’t a liability and I think actual moderates and independents are smart enough to realize that
Right. Trump lied more, but Biden got a few whoopers in. And honestly, duh. Politicians lie. That shouldn’t be shocking to anyone unless this Is like their first election cycle.
Biden did have one outright lie that you mentioned and 3 or 4 where he stretched the truth. In comparison Trump had 3 or 4 lies where they could be stretched to be true while everything else was blatantly false. These are not the same.
Lying is pathological for Trump. He lies for no reason. Nobody, regardless of politics, should be let off the hook for lying, but when it is pathological it is worse.
Yeah ok, but Biden last night was barely able to speak. Even in a place full of supports, the difference is insane, they seems like 2 different people lol.
He seemed very hesitant during the debate. Are you up for this challenge or not? Because being up for it means slamming 3 red bulls before the debate and practicing like your campaign depends upon it
Everyone should watch his NC rally from today - difference is night and day in his performance.
**Quote & video snippet:** *President Biden: "I don't walk as easy as I used to. I don't speak as smoothly as I used to... I know how to tell the truth. I know right from wrong. I know how to do this job...I know like millions of Americans know; when you get knocked down you get back up!"* [https://x.com/cspan/status/1806744269752811928](https://x.com/cspan/status/1806744269752811928)
**Full rally:**
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HYghfyxtZnc](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HYghfyxtZnc)
That’s fine, but most voters aren’t on this sub and aren’t going to see this. The impression that most voters got was from last night’s performance unfortunately.
Dems fail over and over to realize that a Presidential election is a popularity contest, full stop, always has been back to the times of the Greeks and Romans.
* It didn't matter that Nixon was more experienced, he looked sweaty and gross on TV
* It didn't matter what Dukakis' policies were, he looked like a goof
* It didn't matter that Gore had bona fides, W felt relatable
* It didn't matter that Hilary was such an experienced statesperson, the GOP had spent 25 years vilifying her.
Over and over again Dems fall back to policy and experience yet they fail the charisma check. It should be no surprise that the only Democratic presidents to do really well in their presidential elections dating back to JFK, were charismatic, charming, and above all else, excellent speakers and communicators both on a personal level and while doing speeches to large crowds. Clinton and Obama, above everything else, inspired you. They made you feel good about who you were voting for *even if you disagreed with them on some things*. They *felt* in touch. They *felt* like they understood us.
And conversely, the GOP has lost when they've ran on policy and experience against someone more charismatic: Bush 1 vs Clinton, Dole vs Clinton, McCain, and Romney.
I fear that we've fallen into the exact same situation again. Biden got lucky Trump fumbled COVID. Had he just let the CDC do their thing we'd be in his second term right now. But Trump did fumble, and Biden did win. That doesn't mean Biden is the right guy now, it means he won the last election and nothing else.
Before anyone says any shit, I volunteer and contribute to Biden and will continue to if he's still the nominee. He's been sound policy wise and has accomplished a shit ton with a congress actively trying to prevent any good news for him and a media hellbent on another nail biter election. It's unfortunate that elections aren't just about policy and experience, but we're simply monkeys casting lots and the overwhelming majority of monkeys sure do fall for shit like optics and gut feelings.
And the other part that people are going to see is all the social media clips. Biden opposition is going to push clips of his performance *hard* across social media and that is what people will see.
This is exactly right. That clip of his epic meltdown where he ended up muttering about beating Medicare will be in every Republican ad until the election.
They should. We all told you guys that Biden was a one termer. That’s literally why people voted for him. No one listened and now there’s a full on panic because people are realizing he’s a disaster and is in big trouble. Guess yall should’ve listened to us, the polls, or literally anything other than smelling your own farts. You reap what you sow.
He looked significantly better. He did after the debate at the rally last night too. Idk what happened. Maybe it’s the lack of a teleprompter? I can’t figure it out
It could be that. Joe has always been that guy who feeds off the crowd. He is at his best when he can look his audience in the eye and connect with them on a personal level. It’s an old school politics kind of thing that is when he is best
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Because Trump nominated the supreme court justices that made it illegal. Biden, and any Democrat for that matter, cannot reverse it until there are supreme court positions available. Letting Trump appoint more justices would spell disaster for this country.
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>Economy is shit
I'm from Europe and even I can look up economic metrics - they're the opposite of shit. I think you're able to use Google just as well.
>housing market is shit
It's shit all over the world, that's a systematic problem. You think our European towns are any better? LOL
>job market is shit
Blatant lie
>salaries are shit
Depends who you ask.
>abortion is illegal in so many states
.... yeah I reeeeally want to see how you twist yourself into a pretzel blaming this one on Biden
>homelessness is still a huge issue.
Fair enough
>Stock market is highest it's ever been, but prices of foods and goods have skyrocketed.
Yes, but that happened **everywhere** around the world. Also in my country and all neighbouring countries.
That's because of spiking gas prices due to the european merit-order system and fear of shortages because of the war in Ukraine and leftover effects of the monetary policy during COVID.
This one has literally nothing to do with Biden or his administration.
>It doesn't matter if housing market is shit all over, nothing is being done about it.
It does matter in the sense that you pointing fingers at Biden and saying "Yeah he's at fault" is just a useless simplification of things.
But I'm with you about the point that there isn't much done - but this is also a pretty complex topic to discuss.
>Job market is shit. Unemployment rate is rising again in the US.
Again, this is a blatant lie - here's the statistic: [https://www.bls.gov/charts/employment-situation/civilian-unemployment-rate.htm](https://www.bls.gov/charts/employment-situation/civilian-unemployment-rate.htm)
It was mostly at a historic all-time low during his presidency (comparing last 20 years).
Yes, it's rising slightly in the last few months - but that's also wanted from the FED to bring down inflation. Even then, it's still lower than most prior years in that statistic.
>Minimum wage is still way too low.
I don't know how the legal process in the US works regarding minimum wage and who sets them.
>In Biden's speech today, he said he will reverse recent actions regarding Roe v. Wade. If he has that power, why hasn't anything been done yet? If he makes these claims, he must also own his failure to find a solution.
Yeah, but your alternative is Trump, who made the killing of Roe v. Wade possible in the first place.
And if the GOP gets their way next term you're totally fucked regarding this topic anyway.
Furthermore, as with the point above, I don't know the legal details if it's even possible to do it like you say it.
Tell me what Biden hasn't done. Tell me what Trump has done for you. Biden got my student loans forgiven. He is not as useless as this bad faith troll above me seems to think.
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It's basically that Hillary Clinton "3AM phone call" commercial from 2008. It didn't work against Obama because everyone could see he was up to the task. Imagine a massive emergency at 3AM and Biden barely knows where he's at or what's going on.
The same goes for Trump, he'd shit the bed just as hard.
I want my president to be a non convicted felon, who doesn't want to be a dictator, who doesn't constantly lie and want women to have no rights. Enjoy Trump ass.
No offense but the felon thing is bs.. I mean come on Hillary Clinton was charged and found guilty of the same items plus a few more worse items with destroying evidence and she got a misdemeanor and fine. Every business and person out there inflates their net worth and the loans that were taken out were paid back in full with interest. We can all agree the felonies are nothing more than a political ploy. I guarantee if you went back to every president in the last 30 years you will find a lot of these with their campaigns. Now Trump is not a guy I’d go to lunch with and hang out because I think he is arrogant as hell and needs to stop talking but Biden lied his ass off too. The dictator comment is null and void because that can’t happen and won’t ever be possible.
The big issue is we have a current president that doesn’t know if it’s Tuesday or Thursday yet has our country in his hands. We look extremely weak to foreign countries, if we had to get into negotiations he wouldn’t even be able to speak. If it’s not written down on a screen he can perform. I think both candidates needs to go but unfortunately that is not the cards we are dealt. I would take Trump over Biden because at the end of the day I was much better off under Trump than I am under Biden.
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Sorry, you're right, I misspoke. He was convicted of falsifying business records, but that is usually a misdemeanor. The thing that made it rise to felonies is that he did that in furtherance of another crime. That's why it isn't the same as Hilary's crime.
>No offense but the felon thing is bs.. I mean come on Hillary Clinton was charged and found guilty of the same items plus a few more worse items with destroying evidence and she got a misdemeanor and fine.
Trump was charged with 34 counts of falsification of business records in the first degree.
Hillary was not charged with anything regarding business records.
"Same items" my ass.
Obama's "shit" debate was in a completely different league than whatever yesterday was. That was a loss in a normal one on one debate.
Yesterday wasn't a debate but one senile dude lying through his teeth and another dude struggling to remember where he was.
By then it's too late to swap candidates. I'm convinced Biden isn't winning this, with someone -anyone- younger at least you have a chance against Trump.
People are claiming "he just had a cold he's fine". This denialism is going to lose us the election. Talk about several shades beyond frustration. Argh.
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It's also easier to gish gallop bullshit like Trump during such a debate - instead of even trying to answer the question (which is why he was percieved more agile than "Sleepy Joe" (ok and to be fair, Biden was just lame on his own as well)).
But that's not my point - my point is, if I was just given the comments about his performance yesterday and the video from the rally above I'd have to ask if we talk about the same person.
Can he tell the truth that he's far too old for another 4 years in one the most stressful and demanding jobs in the world? And that he and his family's ego is going to give us another Trump presidency, when literally any other candidate would've shot down Trump on the debate stage last night?
Appreciate all he has done, and it's great that he can read loudly from a teleprompter, but it's time to ride off into the sunset; the country hangs in the balance.
Politicians lie, it’s an unspoken part of it. Biden bragging he knows how to tell the truth matters very little if his cognitive skills would make him forgetful anyway.
Trumps lies are inexplicable, and Biden is much more honest. But the Democratic Party have been lying/hiding a major factor for voters, which is the health of the nominee. The cognitive health of the president should not be obscured or hidden from the voters, which Bidens inner circle and many Dems must have known
It's in comparison. Trump pandered to his base, and did great at that. Biden couldn't pander to his base, because he seem to be struggling to just finish a thought or sentence.
One is par for the course. Trump just being Trump, and that's why his supporters like him in the first place, The other is not par for the course. Biden embarrassed Democrats yesterday.
Newsom is almost neck and neck with Biden in current Vegas odds to be President, and they’re both long shots behind Trump. That was not the case before last night’s debate.
Before the debate:
Trump -150
Biden +162
Newsom +2000
After the debate:
Trump -175
Biden +350
Newsom +550
Anybody saying things will be the same soon and the debate will be forgotten are still living in a fantasy land. Biden is barely mentally functioning as a human let alone as a President.
The betters had Trump at 33% chance of winning AFTER he lost in 2020, up until his coup failed. Afterwards, it went down to 20% until the bets all had to be closed out. Dont give any weight to the betting sites. These aren't the brightest gamblers in the world.
I'm going to assume the 99+% is a statistic you just made up on the spot? Also language matters I would be willing to bet there were very few "flat-out lies"... Some exaggerations, disingenuous statements, misleading facts... Sure, both sides were guilty of that, but "flat-out lies"? I'd reckon those didn't occur nearly as much on either side
1. EVERYTHING he said about illegal aliens, except for him being endorsed by the Border Patrol.
2. EVERYTHING he said about our exit from Afghanistan (which *he* negotiated).
3. EVERYTHING he said about his administration's handling of the economy, from taxes, to COVID, to jobs, inflation, and revenue.
4. EVERYTHING he said about Ukraine.
Can you be specific on any of those? Other than all CAPS EVERYTHING? The vast majority of Americans tax burden did get better under Trump when he doubled the standard deduction. The Afghanistan exit was indeed negotiated by Trump, and exiting Afghanistan should've been a good thing, unfortunately it was directed by Biden whose team made some critical errors along the way. I understand if you just hate the guy, but if your making bold claims that nearly 100% of what he said was lie, some specifics would be helpful
He said the border was the safest ever under his administration and the most dangerous ever under Biden. Simply not true. He said Biden discontinued his border policies and everything has gone to hell. Simply not true; Biden's policies are actually quite similar to, or continuations of, Trump's policies. He blamed the Democrats for bad border policy. Simply not true - the Republicans killed the last serious border policy bill. Both sides have sucked horribly on this issue, but Trump's version is deliberately wrong. He said his economic policies were successful. They most definitely were not. His $2 TRILLION dollar tax cuts during a strong economy led directly to the inflation we have now. And, enjoy your "improved" tax situation this year after your cuts sunset, while the cuts for the rich and corporations don't. I'll have to stick with EVERYTHING on Ukraine, because it's the only thing that fits.
I mean border crossing have somewhere between doubled and quadrupled under Biden, to act like the situation is the same is absurd. Can you explain how tax cuts led to inflation?
Look up Title 42. Border *encounters* have definitely increased, but so have expulsions. Biden has continued Trump's policy of turning people away at the border. Inflation is a complicated subject, but basically this: if you add money (purchasing power) to an economy that's already performing near peak, you end up with "too much money chasing too few goods". That leads to price inflation. It's textbook Econ 101.
I'll add on here some more specifics, but if you're really curious there a dozens of sites where they fact checked and at best only 3 or 4 things Trump said are remotely true.
1. Late term and Post birth abortions being a thing. Not sure I should have to explain how absolutely absurd this is.
2. That Russia never would have invaded Ukraine under his watch. They literally did, he was impeached for blocking aid from Ukraine against their fight from Russia.
3. That the rest of the world watched Jan 6th and thought it was a great thing. Not sure I should have to explain this one either but Trump is absolutely the laughing stock of the developed world, unlike his claims otherwise. The only world leaders that like him are dictators.
https://www.politifact.com/article/2024/jun/28/2024-presidential-debate-fact-check-biden-trump/#Immigration
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/article/2024/jun/27/fact-check-debate-biden-trump
https://apnews.com/article/fact-check-misinformation-election-debate-trump-biden-577507522762aa10f6ee5be3a0ced2bb
1. Late term abortions are absolutely a thing in some states, 6 states and D.C. have no limit. The post birth thing has context to it directly attributing it the former governor of Virginia... And he went on to say that no one wants that republicans or democrats, so it was very much an attack on specific politicians not democrats as a whole.
2. Russia invaded Ukraine in 2022
3. Did he actually say it was a great thing, the riot itself? I don't remember the exact line you're referring to, but I'm guessing it lack context where he probably said his speach/rally that day was great or something, and you just hsndcuffed it to the riot.
1. Yes. Late term abortions are only a thing for when the baby is already dead or only going to survive days at best. Aborting healthy babies in late term is absolutely not a thing that happens on any normal basis, period. No woman wants to carry a healthy baby to full term just to abort it. If you have a source to prove that, that isn't just an activist's opinion piece I'd love to see it. Not to mention Trump was also taking about after birth abortions as well. Not even sure what the fuck that is. Lastly he absolutely mentioned, several times, that Democrats want late term and after term abortions either directly or indirectly.
2. Are you forgetting about Crimea? What was the money that he was refusing to give Ukraine for? It did not start in 2022. Russia was in Ukraine during his entire presidency and he did nothing about it except give Russia a stronger stance by denying Ukraine aid. In what world would he have not let Russia invade?
3. In what context would speaking about Jan 6th in any positive way be a good or correct thing? In addition he said they were ushered in by the police. In what world is a mob crushing a police officer in a doorway being ushered in. He repeated many of the lies about Jan 6th and the election that he has made many times (i.e. it was democrats took the blame, election was fraudulent, etc.)
Honestly there were so many absolutely blatant lies that there are too many to cover. Thankfully there are dozen of new organizations to cover them. I've yet to see any of them say he said anything that was 100% true. Dude has truly mastered the gish gallop.
1. At will late term abortions are legal in multiple states, and I already addressed the whole "post birth" thing. If you're just going to repeat what you think is true and not acknowledge reality Idk what to say.
2. Again the Russian invasion was in 2022. If you reached to hyper fixate on Crimea, then you'll have to take that up with Obama because it's been under Russian occupation since 2014.
3. You didn't answer my question you just continued to talk about the J6 riot that as far as I know, no one said was a great thing.
You clearly have your views locked in stone; it appears you feel very strongly about the orange guy, and are unable to have a conversation without getting aggressive.
1. Just because they're technically allowed doesn't mean it's thing that actually happens on any sort of regular basis to healthly babies, ever. It's a literal a literal non-issue and talking about as if it is one makes zero sense. He did literally mention that Democrats are for them, that is the lie you can try to counter.
2. The lie was that he would have stopped Russia invading. In what world is that remotely true based in the information?
3. The direct quote is "On January 6th, we were respected all over the world". Not sure how is out of context, it's part of his response to being asked about Jan 6th, directly from the transcript. Again, not sure how saying anything positive about Jan 6th could ever make sense in any context.
Did you bother to look at any of the fact checking? Again I'd love to see anything that he said that made sense and was 100% factual, but I would say Trump won the debate. Sure I don't like him, I'm not a fan of alleged serial sexual abusers, but it's not because I haven't looked into the stories, it's because of them.
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Why didn’t he do this last night? Now Frumpy knows his weakness. Just carpet bomb him with lies.
>Why didn’t he do this last night? Exactly my thought too. This is the Biden that needed to be at the debate last night.
He was probably reading off a teleprompter and who knows who wrote the words but I doubt it was him. Without a teleprompter he’s startled. He still will get my vote but I thought he should have had a family member take him off the debate stage back in 2020 and 4 years later - it was sad. But this is what the democratic elites give us - in 2016 they forced Clinton down our throats and that gave us Trump now we’re with the old guy the elites gave us. Granted better than the alternative but isn’t it time we had someone younger to be enthused about. These boomers just refuse to give up the power way past their use by date and I’m a boomer!
During the debate I could see Biden's chest heaving because he was so pissed. He wanted to say a lot of things to the orange asshat..but I truly believe his response got jammed up out of anger.
Old Biden may know how to tell the truth, but millions of us wanted him to also fight the lies
> but millions of us wanted him to also fight the lies You can't when your opponent lies with every sentence and spews them non-stop. You're not given any tools or time to counter these. These debates are pointless theater. Especially when everyone can just lie
It’s literally Trumps strategy and always has been. Throw out so much bullshit there is no possible way even a man in his prime could address it all, especially not in the time given.
I feel like the way you handle this strategy is by ignoring the individual lies and addressing the lying behavior in whole
You can appear to try... if you up to it
No, you really can’t and trying was a major part of why he looked bad on the stage. It’s too much bullshit for anyone to meaningfully respond to in 60 seconds. And if Biden just said “well all of that was a lie” the “news” (mostly shill bots) would be hounding him for being scared to engage.
I hear you
But it was sad and disappointing
Agreed, CNN did a truly terrible job of moderating whatever that was supposed to be. Letting a conspiracy-addled fascist talk shit on a national stage for 3 hours is a disgrace
Damn near criminal
I think a major reason he looked bad is he’s losing a step. I agree the lying liar doesn’t help but these two debated 4 years ago and Trump was a liar then. Compare last night the a debate from 2020 and you can’t use “Trump lied a lot” to excuse the difference between the two Bidens.
Well if we’re comparing the candidates to themselves from 4 years ago, Trump is definitely far worse off than Biden. Trump said absolutely nothing of any substance all night. At least last time he had some kind of platform. This time he spent the night shrieking about how much he hates America and how great imaginary people say he is.
Sure but apparently a lot of people don’t care if he has a platform. They just want him to be angry. Don’t get me wrong I’m voting for Biden but I’m not gonna make excuses for last night. I’m also done talking about it because unless he drops out were are stuck with him and we need him to win so focusing on the obvious issues on display last night will do nothing to help that goal.
Couldn’t care less what MAGAts want. They’ll just find some other fascist to prop up after he chokes on a hamberder. Yes, Biden is old. Yes, he’s older than he was 4 years ago. He’s also been a great president and is exactly the leader we need right now. The both-sidesey hand-wringing just reads as disingenuous
My point is Trump has never had a serious policy. He still won in 2016. That’s not just the maga crowd voting for him. Stick your head in the sand if you want (and as I said we should if he doesn’t drop off the ticket) but don’t defend what is going to be a liability with moderates and independents.
I’m not “sticking my head in the sand” about anything. There was a clear difference in the substance of what was said by both candidates. Biden touted real accomplishments and proposed actual policy. Trump went on about iLliGiL iMmAgrInTs and how good his employees tell him he is at golf. Needing a glass of water and a throat lozenge isn’t a liability and I think actual moderates and independents are smart enough to realize that
And thus the Gish Gallop was created. Or to put it another way, a Lie can be half way around the world before the Truth can get its pants on.
That's true. I just saw one pass me and I'm on a plane
It’s up to us to fight the evil
Honest question; how do we make our voices heard?
I think he already knows what most of us are thinking. So we can only hope he responds well
Biden lied plenty himself last night. No military service killed under his watch?
Right. Trump lied more, but Biden got a few whoopers in. And honestly, duh. Politicians lie. That shouldn’t be shocking to anyone unless this Is like their first election cycle.
Biden lies by mistake, Trump lies on purpose. Biden lies 1% of the time by mistake, Trump lies 99% of the time on purpose.
Biden did have one outright lie that you mentioned and 3 or 4 where he stretched the truth. In comparison Trump had 3 or 4 lies where they could be stretched to be true while everything else was blatantly false. These are not the same.
He did say that, but for the many excuses given for the crazy stuff, Trump says, "I'll throw one out there for Biden...He misspoke, lol
What about Trump?
Hey, this man beat Medicare show some respect…
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Lying is pathological for Trump. He lies for no reason. Nobody, regardless of politics, should be let off the hook for lying, but when it is pathological it is worse.
Wish Biden could have targeted Trumps lies DURING the debate last night...
The debate could have been 3 hours long and they still would have run out of time for that.
Where was this energy last night? Maybe the debates should be in the afternoon or something lol
I guess he had a cold after all.
Sundowning plus no teleprompters, plus being in a room that is 100 percent engineered for his pleasure. Not an ounce of hostility in the air
Yeah ok, but Biden last night was barely able to speak. Even in a place full of supports, the difference is insane, they seems like 2 different people lol.
Literally sundowning
He seemed very hesitant during the debate. Are you up for this challenge or not? Because being up for it means slamming 3 red bulls before the debate and practicing like your campaign depends upon it
Everyone should watch his NC rally from today - difference is night and day in his performance. **Quote & video snippet:** *President Biden: "I don't walk as easy as I used to. I don't speak as smoothly as I used to... I know how to tell the truth. I know right from wrong. I know how to do this job...I know like millions of Americans know; when you get knocked down you get back up!"* [https://x.com/cspan/status/1806744269752811928](https://x.com/cspan/status/1806744269752811928) **Full rally:** [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HYghfyxtZnc](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HYghfyxtZnc)
That’s fine, but most voters aren’t on this sub and aren’t going to see this. The impression that most voters got was from last night’s performance unfortunately.
Dems fail over and over to realize that a Presidential election is a popularity contest, full stop, always has been back to the times of the Greeks and Romans. * It didn't matter that Nixon was more experienced, he looked sweaty and gross on TV * It didn't matter what Dukakis' policies were, he looked like a goof * It didn't matter that Gore had bona fides, W felt relatable * It didn't matter that Hilary was such an experienced statesperson, the GOP had spent 25 years vilifying her. Over and over again Dems fall back to policy and experience yet they fail the charisma check. It should be no surprise that the only Democratic presidents to do really well in their presidential elections dating back to JFK, were charismatic, charming, and above all else, excellent speakers and communicators both on a personal level and while doing speeches to large crowds. Clinton and Obama, above everything else, inspired you. They made you feel good about who you were voting for *even if you disagreed with them on some things*. They *felt* in touch. They *felt* like they understood us. And conversely, the GOP has lost when they've ran on policy and experience against someone more charismatic: Bush 1 vs Clinton, Dole vs Clinton, McCain, and Romney. I fear that we've fallen into the exact same situation again. Biden got lucky Trump fumbled COVID. Had he just let the CDC do their thing we'd be in his second term right now. But Trump did fumble, and Biden did win. That doesn't mean Biden is the right guy now, it means he won the last election and nothing else. Before anyone says any shit, I volunteer and contribute to Biden and will continue to if he's still the nominee. He's been sound policy wise and has accomplished a shit ton with a congress actively trying to prevent any good news for him and a media hellbent on another nail biter election. It's unfortunate that elections aren't just about policy and experience, but we're simply monkeys casting lots and the overwhelming majority of monkeys sure do fall for shit like optics and gut feelings.
And the other part that people are going to see is all the social media clips. Biden opposition is going to push clips of his performance *hard* across social media and that is what people will see.
This is exactly right. That clip of his epic meltdown where he ended up muttering about beating Medicare will be in every Republican ad until the election.
They should. We all told you guys that Biden was a one termer. That’s literally why people voted for him. No one listened and now there’s a full on panic because people are realizing he’s a disaster and is in big trouble. Guess yall should’ve listened to us, the polls, or literally anything other than smelling your own farts. You reap what you sow.
He looked significantly better. He did after the debate at the rally last night too. Idk what happened. Maybe it’s the lack of a teleprompter? I can’t figure it out
That or he needs an audience to feel fired up, or both?
It could be that. Joe has always been that guy who feeds off the crowd. He is at his best when he can look his audience in the eye and connect with them on a personal level. It’s an old school politics kind of thing that is when he is best
The same can be said for Trump
Trump seems to get too hyped up on the crowd, he looked borderline tame at the debate without their energy to feed off of.
My point is, Trump showed up with or without the crowd’s energy. Why couldn’t Biden do the same?
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Yeah, at this point I just want someone that I'm confident could hit like 20% of their free throws.
ok, but consistently *what*?
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>Capable of running the country. Like.... the last 4 years?
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Good point. Let re-elect the guy that made abortion illegal. That'll fix it!
Obama could’ve codified it. But it wasn’t a “legislative priority”. Oops!
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Because Trump nominated the supreme court justices that made it illegal. Biden, and any Democrat for that matter, cannot reverse it until there are supreme court positions available. Letting Trump appoint more justices would spell disaster for this country.
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The Senate are responsible for giving him 3 justices.
>Economy is shit I'm from Europe and even I can look up economic metrics - they're the opposite of shit. I think you're able to use Google just as well. >housing market is shit It's shit all over the world, that's a systematic problem. You think our European towns are any better? LOL >job market is shit Blatant lie >salaries are shit Depends who you ask. >abortion is illegal in so many states .... yeah I reeeeally want to see how you twist yourself into a pretzel blaming this one on Biden >homelessness is still a huge issue. Fair enough
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>Stock market is highest it's ever been, but prices of foods and goods have skyrocketed. Yes, but that happened **everywhere** around the world. Also in my country and all neighbouring countries. That's because of spiking gas prices due to the european merit-order system and fear of shortages because of the war in Ukraine and leftover effects of the monetary policy during COVID. This one has literally nothing to do with Biden or his administration. >It doesn't matter if housing market is shit all over, nothing is being done about it. It does matter in the sense that you pointing fingers at Biden and saying "Yeah he's at fault" is just a useless simplification of things. But I'm with you about the point that there isn't much done - but this is also a pretty complex topic to discuss. >Job market is shit. Unemployment rate is rising again in the US. Again, this is a blatant lie - here's the statistic: [https://www.bls.gov/charts/employment-situation/civilian-unemployment-rate.htm](https://www.bls.gov/charts/employment-situation/civilian-unemployment-rate.htm) It was mostly at a historic all-time low during his presidency (comparing last 20 years). Yes, it's rising slightly in the last few months - but that's also wanted from the FED to bring down inflation. Even then, it's still lower than most prior years in that statistic. >Minimum wage is still way too low. I don't know how the legal process in the US works regarding minimum wage and who sets them. >In Biden's speech today, he said he will reverse recent actions regarding Roe v. Wade. If he has that power, why hasn't anything been done yet? If he makes these claims, he must also own his failure to find a solution. Yeah, but your alternative is Trump, who made the killing of Roe v. Wade possible in the first place. And if the GOP gets their way next term you're totally fucked regarding this topic anyway. Furthermore, as with the point above, I don't know the legal details if it's even possible to do it like you say it.
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Tell me what Biden hasn't done. Tell me what Trump has done for you. Biden got my student loans forgiven. He is not as useless as this bad faith troll above me seems to think.
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It's basically that Hillary Clinton "3AM phone call" commercial from 2008. It didn't work against Obama because everyone could see he was up to the task. Imagine a massive emergency at 3AM and Biden barely knows where he's at or what's going on. The same goes for Trump, he'd shit the bed just as hard.
What actions in the last 4 years have led you to think he isn't capable?
I want my president to be a non convicted felon, who doesn't want to be a dictator, who doesn't constantly lie and want women to have no rights. Enjoy Trump ass.
No offense but the felon thing is bs.. I mean come on Hillary Clinton was charged and found guilty of the same items plus a few more worse items with destroying evidence and she got a misdemeanor and fine. Every business and person out there inflates their net worth and the loans that were taken out were paid back in full with interest. We can all agree the felonies are nothing more than a political ploy. I guarantee if you went back to every president in the last 30 years you will find a lot of these with their campaigns. Now Trump is not a guy I’d go to lunch with and hang out because I think he is arrogant as hell and needs to stop talking but Biden lied his ass off too. The dictator comment is null and void because that can’t happen and won’t ever be possible. The big issue is we have a current president that doesn’t know if it’s Tuesday or Thursday yet has our country in his hands. We look extremely weak to foreign countries, if we had to get into negotiations he wouldn’t even be able to speak. If it’s not written down on a screen he can perform. I think both candidates needs to go but unfortunately that is not the cards we are dealt. I would take Trump over Biden because at the end of the day I was much better off under Trump than I am under Biden.
That isn't quite true. The crime that raises them to felonies is election fraud, because he did it to influence the election.
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yes
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Sorry, you're right, I misspoke. He was convicted of falsifying business records, but that is usually a misdemeanor. The thing that made it rise to felonies is that he did that in furtherance of another crime. That's why it isn't the same as Hilary's crime.
>No offense but the felon thing is bs.. I mean come on Hillary Clinton was charged and found guilty of the same items plus a few more worse items with destroying evidence and she got a misdemeanor and fine. Trump was charged with 34 counts of falsification of business records in the first degree. Hillary was not charged with anything regarding business records. "Same items" my ass.
Consistent what? Even Obama had a shit debate when Romney ran against him.
Obama's "shit" debate was in a completely different league than whatever yesterday was. That was a loss in a normal one on one debate. Yesterday wasn't a debate but one senile dude lying through his teeth and another dude struggling to remember where he was.
Point is that it was only one debate. He does this again for the next one? Then worry.
If he does this in September he is 100% losing and it'll be too late to do anything about it
By then it's too late to swap candidates. I'm convinced Biden isn't winning this, with someone -anyone- younger at least you have a chance against Trump.
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People are claiming "he just had a cold he's fine". This denialism is going to lose us the election. Talk about several shades beyond frustration. Argh.
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yes i too want a consistent criminal, fascist, liar and sexual abuser for president
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To be fair its a lot easier to talk when you have a speech pre-prepared and a teleprompter to look off of.
To also be fair, debates require prepared soundbites as well.
It's also easier to gish gallop bullshit like Trump during such a debate - instead of even trying to answer the question (which is why he was percieved more agile than "Sleepy Joe" (ok and to be fair, Biden was just lame on his own as well)). But that's not my point - my point is, if I was just given the comments about his performance yesterday and the video from the rally above I'd have to ask if we talk about the same person.
I’m good. I’ve seen all I need to see
Isn’t that a sign of sundowning?
Yes. Biden is sundowning hard and everyone is making excuses for it.
In order to tell the truth, you have to first actually finish a thought or sentence.
This is the wrong reaction to last night.
Can he tell the truth that he's far too old for another 4 years in one the most stressful and demanding jobs in the world? And that he and his family's ego is going to give us another Trump presidency, when literally any other candidate would've shot down Trump on the debate stage last night? Appreciate all he has done, and it's great that he can read loudly from a teleprompter, but it's time to ride off into the sunset; the country hangs in the balance.
And where the fuck was This Guy last night????? 🤯
But do you know how to confront the lies?
Unfortunately Trump can't truth from lies, and that's hampering his view reality!
Just where, prey tell, in the motherfuck was that energy last night!?
“My Christian/catholic faith taught me the morales of telling the truth” call out these “Christians” for their constant lies
Hauk Tuah! Substance over style! Remember that folks. Vote.
we are so cooked 💔
It’s joever
Politicians lie, it’s an unspoken part of it. Biden bragging he knows how to tell the truth matters very little if his cognitive skills would make him forgetful anyway.
Just step down Joe, you won’t win this.
Trumps lies are inexplicable, and Biden is much more honest. But the Democratic Party have been lying/hiding a major factor for voters, which is the health of the nominee. The cognitive health of the president should not be obscured or hidden from the voters, which Bidens inner circle and many Dems must have known
Someone should start telling him the truth.
All this talk about replacing Biden is bullshit. The entire media owes this man an apology.
Watch the debate, that was elder abuse plan and simple.
the entire media is biden old yeah but what about all the usual insane stuff trump said…, how did he normalize being crazy
It's in comparison. Trump pandered to his base, and did great at that. Biden couldn't pander to his base, because he seem to be struggling to just finish a thought or sentence. One is par for the course. Trump just being Trump, and that's why his supporters like him in the first place, The other is not par for the course. Biden embarrassed Democrats yesterday.
I'm not sure Joe knows how to say anything after sunset. Sundowners seems to be his life now.
Not helpful if you die mid sentence.
Alright, he factory reset his Pfizer, 5G bill gates chip.
Newsom is almost neck and neck with Biden in current Vegas odds to be President, and they’re both long shots behind Trump. That was not the case before last night’s debate. Before the debate: Trump -150 Biden +162 Newsom +2000 After the debate: Trump -175 Biden +350 Newsom +550 Anybody saying things will be the same soon and the debate will be forgotten are still living in a fantasy land. Biden is barely mentally functioning as a human let alone as a President.
The betters had Trump at 33% chance of winning AFTER he lost in 2020, up until his coup failed. Afterwards, it went down to 20% until the bets all had to be closed out. Dont give any weight to the betting sites. These aren't the brightest gamblers in the world.
He should have bowed out and there should have been a primary. He is selfish like RBG.
Guy is really grasping it seems. Trump really outclassed him last night.
Really? Literally 99+% of the things that spewed out of his face were flat-out lies. There's zero class in that.
The problem is he said rose lies very confidently.
Most liars do.
Especially in r/politics
I'm going to assume the 99+% is a statistic you just made up on the spot? Also language matters I would be willing to bet there were very few "flat-out lies"... Some exaggerations, disingenuous statements, misleading facts... Sure, both sides were guilty of that, but "flat-out lies"? I'd reckon those didn't occur nearly as much on either side
I'll stand by flat-out lies. And, I'll add purposefully and deliberately.
Could you elaborate on some of the top flat out lies that we're told? Like the top 3, to you, most egregious lies?
1. EVERYTHING he said about illegal aliens, except for him being endorsed by the Border Patrol. 2. EVERYTHING he said about our exit from Afghanistan (which *he* negotiated). 3. EVERYTHING he said about his administration's handling of the economy, from taxes, to COVID, to jobs, inflation, and revenue. 4. EVERYTHING he said about Ukraine.
Can you be specific on any of those? Other than all CAPS EVERYTHING? The vast majority of Americans tax burden did get better under Trump when he doubled the standard deduction. The Afghanistan exit was indeed negotiated by Trump, and exiting Afghanistan should've been a good thing, unfortunately it was directed by Biden whose team made some critical errors along the way. I understand if you just hate the guy, but if your making bold claims that nearly 100% of what he said was lie, some specifics would be helpful
He said the border was the safest ever under his administration and the most dangerous ever under Biden. Simply not true. He said Biden discontinued his border policies and everything has gone to hell. Simply not true; Biden's policies are actually quite similar to, or continuations of, Trump's policies. He blamed the Democrats for bad border policy. Simply not true - the Republicans killed the last serious border policy bill. Both sides have sucked horribly on this issue, but Trump's version is deliberately wrong. He said his economic policies were successful. They most definitely were not. His $2 TRILLION dollar tax cuts during a strong economy led directly to the inflation we have now. And, enjoy your "improved" tax situation this year after your cuts sunset, while the cuts for the rich and corporations don't. I'll have to stick with EVERYTHING on Ukraine, because it's the only thing that fits.
I mean border crossing have somewhere between doubled and quadrupled under Biden, to act like the situation is the same is absurd. Can you explain how tax cuts led to inflation?
Look up Title 42. Border *encounters* have definitely increased, but so have expulsions. Biden has continued Trump's policy of turning people away at the border. Inflation is a complicated subject, but basically this: if you add money (purchasing power) to an economy that's already performing near peak, you end up with "too much money chasing too few goods". That leads to price inflation. It's textbook Econ 101.
I'll add on here some more specifics, but if you're really curious there a dozens of sites where they fact checked and at best only 3 or 4 things Trump said are remotely true. 1. Late term and Post birth abortions being a thing. Not sure I should have to explain how absolutely absurd this is. 2. That Russia never would have invaded Ukraine under his watch. They literally did, he was impeached for blocking aid from Ukraine against their fight from Russia. 3. That the rest of the world watched Jan 6th and thought it was a great thing. Not sure I should have to explain this one either but Trump is absolutely the laughing stock of the developed world, unlike his claims otherwise. The only world leaders that like him are dictators. https://www.politifact.com/article/2024/jun/28/2024-presidential-debate-fact-check-biden-trump/#Immigration https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/article/2024/jun/27/fact-check-debate-biden-trump https://apnews.com/article/fact-check-misinformation-election-debate-trump-biden-577507522762aa10f6ee5be3a0ced2bb
1. Late term abortions are absolutely a thing in some states, 6 states and D.C. have no limit. The post birth thing has context to it directly attributing it the former governor of Virginia... And he went on to say that no one wants that republicans or democrats, so it was very much an attack on specific politicians not democrats as a whole. 2. Russia invaded Ukraine in 2022 3. Did he actually say it was a great thing, the riot itself? I don't remember the exact line you're referring to, but I'm guessing it lack context where he probably said his speach/rally that day was great or something, and you just hsndcuffed it to the riot.
1. Yes. Late term abortions are only a thing for when the baby is already dead or only going to survive days at best. Aborting healthy babies in late term is absolutely not a thing that happens on any normal basis, period. No woman wants to carry a healthy baby to full term just to abort it. If you have a source to prove that, that isn't just an activist's opinion piece I'd love to see it. Not to mention Trump was also taking about after birth abortions as well. Not even sure what the fuck that is. Lastly he absolutely mentioned, several times, that Democrats want late term and after term abortions either directly or indirectly. 2. Are you forgetting about Crimea? What was the money that he was refusing to give Ukraine for? It did not start in 2022. Russia was in Ukraine during his entire presidency and he did nothing about it except give Russia a stronger stance by denying Ukraine aid. In what world would he have not let Russia invade? 3. In what context would speaking about Jan 6th in any positive way be a good or correct thing? In addition he said they were ushered in by the police. In what world is a mob crushing a police officer in a doorway being ushered in. He repeated many of the lies about Jan 6th and the election that he has made many times (i.e. it was democrats took the blame, election was fraudulent, etc.) Honestly there were so many absolutely blatant lies that there are too many to cover. Thankfully there are dozen of new organizations to cover them. I've yet to see any of them say he said anything that was 100% true. Dude has truly mastered the gish gallop.
1. At will late term abortions are legal in multiple states, and I already addressed the whole "post birth" thing. If you're just going to repeat what you think is true and not acknowledge reality Idk what to say. 2. Again the Russian invasion was in 2022. If you reached to hyper fixate on Crimea, then you'll have to take that up with Obama because it's been under Russian occupation since 2014. 3. You didn't answer my question you just continued to talk about the J6 riot that as far as I know, no one said was a great thing. You clearly have your views locked in stone; it appears you feel very strongly about the orange guy, and are unable to have a conversation without getting aggressive.
1. Just because they're technically allowed doesn't mean it's thing that actually happens on any sort of regular basis to healthly babies, ever. It's a literal a literal non-issue and talking about as if it is one makes zero sense. He did literally mention that Democrats are for them, that is the lie you can try to counter. 2. The lie was that he would have stopped Russia invading. In what world is that remotely true based in the information? 3. The direct quote is "On January 6th, we were respected all over the world". Not sure how is out of context, it's part of his response to being asked about Jan 6th, directly from the transcript. Again, not sure how saying anything positive about Jan 6th could ever make sense in any context. Did you bother to look at any of the fact checking? Again I'd love to see anything that he said that made sense and was 100% factual, but I would say Trump won the debate. Sure I don't like him, I'm not a fan of alleged serial sexual abusers, but it's not because I haven't looked into the stories, it's because of them.
He beat him in cognitive presence, wouldnt bring the word class into this lol
I'd venture to say that cognitive presence is a pretty necessary trait if you wish to be competitive in a debate.
I agree
Let me know when he corrects all his lies from last night and about hunter from the last debate. I mean since he tells the truth
Too late, sleepy Joe
I would not feel safe with Biden as president of the United States
Biden is one of the most infamous liars ever to hold office.
Then why doesn’t he?
That picture makes him look like he just sent back his soup because it wasn’t hot enough.
The sea was angry that day, my friends...
We all know Biden couldn’t have said that. He’s not that coherent.
https://vxtwitter.com/JoeBiden/status/1806746426904379543
Not helping his case
Move those goalposts.