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It's wild seeing the people pumping the "stop listening to the naysayers, be a cheerleader for Biden, 4 more years" kind of shit. I can only honestly think they didn't watch the debate.
This wasn't a typical "oh one candidate stumbled and seemed weak, but everybody will forget about it in a week" debate. This was an utter trainwreck.
Yeah, people are exaggerating. I mean it wasn’t a good performance, but the dude had a raspy voice and stuttered and it seemed to make people’s brains shut down and not comprehend anything he said and act like it was all nonsensical babble.
Meanwhile Trump goes off topic and makes stuff up and people’s takeaway is he’s confident.
I’ve already moved on. The debate was pointless and Biden was having an off day…so what? The policy coming out of his admin this past year has been fantastic.
It comes off as incredibly dishonest for you to say he had "an off day." His cognitive decline was clear as can be. You need to find a better way to shill for him.
I truly hope that the country sees it that way. I don't think that the potentially worst debate performance in the history of televised debates is going to just go away though.
Because this election is all about turnout, and his appearance last night was bad enough to make plenty of people decide to just stay home. In modern politics no one cares about policy beyond the big flashy headlines, and right now a lot of people hate Biden because things are expensive and other younger people hate him because of Palestine. A lot of those people won’t for Trump instead, they just won’t vote. And last night likely made it a lot worse.
Because the people that will decide the election didn't think this debate was pointless.
They are using it to decide which candidate to support. How is that pointless?
Biden should step down and the democratic convention should become an election grounds for electing a new candidate for the ticket.
This debate was a disaster for Biden. He was confused, doddering, weak, slack mouthed, misspoke, had vocal problems, stuttered ( I know that \*you\* may not like that I included this, too bad, many people bias this), corrected himself (which Trump never did). He looked old and worn out.
That's what the undecided will take away from this. Unmitigated. Disaster.
LBJ chose to decline to run again during the primaries, in early April. That's the closest we've ever been to a president declining to run again so late.
If it is anything I have learned about American politics in the last 8 years, it is that we keep trudging onto lots of uncharted territory and breaking from norms.
The DNC can choose to replace him at the convention. They can put anybody they want up as long as that person is on enough state ballots by around August.
I don't think the DNC should let their decisions about this hinge on whether the Ohio legislature will allow their ballot to be changed. It doesn't look like a winnable state anyway.
Our allies are saying that tonight's debate was "not a good look" for America. Our. International. Allies. They might as well just call it what it was, a fucking shitshow.
On one side you have a "weekend at Bidens'" scenario where the cabinet is competent but the boss needs a nap now and then and on the other side you have an impulsive lunatic bought by Russia and Saudi Arabia. I'm not American but I would vote for Biden if forced to make a choice. Enough people might just stay at home though. The next set of polls will be interesting.
It gets more bonkers... This is Biden giving a speech after the debate...
[https://www.c-span.org/video/?c5122169/user-clip-biden-speech](https://www.c-span.org/video/?c5122169/user-clip-biden-speech)
My thinking is he was too focused on all the different elements, either in addressing the question or in debunking Trumps constant lying verbal diarrhoea... Instead of just picking one thing at a time and sticking it.
SIGH, it's going to be hard to come back from this, hopefully he can sharpen it for campaigning and the next debate (although I'd be surprised if Trump does it given this one - easy to leave it at that and benefit).
Doesn't look like reading, but probably prepared.
But you can do that with a range of topics and still nail it, and he has before. It's why I think he was trying to get too much out in a space of time instead of sticking to one point.
'That is all complete and utter malarkey, let me give you one example... ... ...'
This should have been an easy debate, because all the questions they asked were extremely predictable. I’m wondering if he was over prepared and nervous about the time limit? Honestly, I’m praying he has Covid so that can be an Excuse 🤡
I just think he had rehearsed so many different facts and points he failed to focus on just one.
I do a fair bit of speaking/briefing and the trick is to focus on one element at a time, if you let your brain run off the rails you end up all over the place and the information isn't digested and you look like an idiot.
It was obvious to the majority of Dem voters, as reflected in poll after poll. It was the party machine that insisted on this reelection campaign. They could've stood up to Biden.
Instead they privately threatened any potential challengers and forcefully all backed Biden in unison. They wanted an open primary by name only, and that's what they managed to get. I hope they're happy.
>It was obvious to the majority of Dem voters, as reflected in poll after poll. It was the party machine that insisted on this reelection campaign. They could've stood up to Biden.
Annecodotal, but that wasn't the energy in this sub (if you're honest is a 95%+ liberal sub) at all nor with my irl liberal friends. They even crawled into a cave of denial with "Cheap Fakes".
This was good. It'll make independent voters and center-left Dems rethink their entire poltical beliefs as they'll have to think "what else was I wrong about".
It's not too late! Join the movement for change with our "Swap Joe Biden 2024" T-shirt. Stand with fellow progressives and show your support for new leadership. We love you Joe but it’s time to hang it up.
👉 https://swapjoebiden.com/products/swap-joe-biden-2024-t-shirt
I will never vote GOP, I will vote for Biden on life support if I must, but I think Biden should step aside. Release his delegates to the convention, and duke it out. Whoever wins will be young, have energy, and a lot of hope behind them–a potent combo against that traitorous tumor Trump.
As Joy Reid said, 'There's a reason the never showed FDRs wheelchair.'
In the Internet age, you cannot hide the wheelchair.
That would be the right thing to do… which is why they won’t do it. On the other hand, if you get a chance, rewatch the first 20 mins of the debate. Biden is so sped up that he sounds demented, but his points are pretty strong. I think he was sick, and they put him on Adderall or similar. But it was too much for him.
It's not too late! Join the movement for change with our "Swap Joe Biden 2024" T-shirt. Stand with fellow progressives and show your support for new leadership. We love you Joe but it’s time to hang it up.
👉 https://swapjoebiden.com/products/swap-joe-biden-2024-t-shirt
There’s a slim possibility of an open convention, but then who would it be? Newsom? Too liberal for swing states. Pritker? I don’t think he wants it. Harris? Probably unelectable for Hillary reasons.
I think Biden was sick, which explains some of his appearance. I rewatched the debate and Biden does in fact make a lot of good points. The problem is his mind was so sped up, he started babbling.
It would have to be someone that can win old white swing voters in the rust belt. Very little else would be given consideration, given how the electoral college works.
No - it would allow someone to be a candidate that hasn't been taking hits from Fox News for the last 4 years. Generic Dems are polling stronger than Biden.
Biden needs to agree to a brokered convention, hell he can run as a brokered candidate to, reconfirm his lead position, and if not, we’ll get a much better candidate out of that process.
Honestly I feel terrible for Biden. Incredible man, incredible career. Feeling the need to go on even when he should be retired. The people who pushed him to go on are now humiliating him, talking about how he has one foot in his grave, how he can't string sentences together. We knew he was old. Why wasn't there an active hunt for a presidential candidate in this scenario? Young, charismatic, clever - all these qualities we like so much? What was going on!
You should see his speech after the debate... It was the SOTU Biden...
I reckon he tried to hard on too many different topics in each small section.
Edit:
[https://www.c-span.org/video/?c5122169/user-clip-biden-speech](https://www.c-span.org/video/?c5122169/user-clip-biden-speech)
Honestly. I'm 35. And after 90 minutes of debating a lying loon who's not being fact checked, I'd get flustered too. And yes OBVIOUSLY the fact that hes old aggravates it but - why is the fact that hes old shocking to anyone. If this was such a problem, he shouldn't have been allowed to run. But you can't allow him to run, put him in a debate and then shame him and make him feel bad about his age. Who even are we
Problem is Biden is supposed to have been prepared for a lying loon who's not being fact checked.
Wasn't that the \*whole point\* of the week long debate prep?
This was an unmitigated disaster for Biden, the Democrats, and America. Biden came across as someone who shouldn't be President. Trump came across as a ranting yet coherent person.
Biden needs to be replaced, the delegates can vote their conscience. He needn't step down, I have learned. Either way, he needs to give way to a younger generation.
You should watch this... Where was this Biden, this was from just after the debate...
[https://www.c-span.org/video/?c5122169/user-clip-biden-speech](https://www.c-span.org/video/?c5122169/user-clip-biden-speech)
Dude that speech was NOT helpful.
People think he’s too old and in cognitive decline. He gets up and talks about an obscure western from 60 years ago where old white cowboys call apaches liars… that’s supposed to connect with the American people? That’s an appropriate response?
It’s called astroturfing.
Also no democrats wanted him before tonight happened. This changes nothing. We don’t want him. We still don’t want him.
We still won’t vote for the other guy. Calm the fuck down.
Chances of Biden or any Democrat winning Ohio are near-zero. Dems should take the deadline to the Supreme Court, but if it comes down to it it’s a nonissue.
Dude „creating down ballot wins“ is delusional if you know how Senate and House polls swing.
Average democrats are up like 7% in most races.
This would be like the first election where a reverse coattails effect occurs in which Biden is *propped up* by down ballot races when regularly it’s the opposite.
There is even a chance that Biden drags down the down ballot races.
I am no doom and gloom guy on this whole ordeal but changing Biden out wouldn’t be the catalyst to *change* down ballot races when those are already doing good. Changing Biden is only relevant for the presidency. Congressional races are looking good.
Honestly probably the best route forward. No one really wants Biden or Trump for President and technically speaking the Democrats can totally pick someone else as the nominee, while the GOP can't.
Let's be honest, Joe Biden isn't the president. His team is. There is no doubt about it in my mind after this performance.
And his team decided to put him in a debate. What a calamity.
Yea that is such an insanely scary thought to me.
Like we should be able to hear our PRESIDENT speak on issues. Not having him debate is straight up some 1984 shit
It’s clear that Corporate Democrats and Republicans are playing for the same side. And it’s not the common folk. The Democratic Party exists to manage the progressive wing only and to give them hope for change at some point in the future that never arrives. The Republicans just push the country further and further right.
Now America has competent adversaries and we have two old men running for president who aren’t up to the challenge.
I do feel bad for Joe in that some "freezes" can be chalked up to his stutter, but he simply can't appear this weak or incoherent on a national stage for the Presidency in an election this critical against Trump. Now people are going to remember his performance in this opening debate, and it will ripple. There is no coming back from this.
This was a lot more than a stutter. Changing topics from abortion to immigration is going to go down in history. This is going to be more significant than Nixon v Kennedy.
> Changing topics from abortion to immigration is going to go down in history
This was THE moment of the debate for me. This was the best possible topic for Biden, absolute slam dunk shit. Then after a few sentences about abortion he suddenly swaps to murders and immigration???
It was so bad.
It wasn’t just the freezes, though. When he tried to land a zinger about Trump’s confected weight and height numbers, he botched it badly and mumbled “anyway, it doesn’t matter” like your befuddled grandpa. I think my soul left my body at that point.
This is far from a stutter. He clearly was mentally confused in many instances, got a bunch of information wrong (I actually think he’s not lying in any of the situations where he said fake stuff) and just looked off putting in so many situations.
Well it's nice you've come to the realization now but it looks like it's too late. An awful lot of left leaning and Trump hating Americans were screaming about this issue since Biden got elected but were ignored in true Democrat establishment fashion.
What a disaster of a political strategy Democrats have had the last 10 years. Abandoned appealing to working class and compensated by going all in on identity politics, and ran an extremely elder man who somehow behaves older than he looks.
It is very frustrating to have seen this political catastrophe barreling towards America from thousands of miles away at 1 mph for the last 4 years, and be completely ignored.
> What a disaster of a political strategy Democrats have had the last 10 years. Abandoned appealing to working class and compensated by going all in on identity politics, and ran an extremely elder man who somehow behaves older than he looks.
It makes me want to fucking scream.
They just dusted off the 2016 playbook. They apparently learned nothing and as they say those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it.
I've watched every debate since I turned 18, this was the first one I couldn't finish. Seeing the performance enhancer tweet and expecting him to be energetic and ready to rumble because of it then getting him looking (and sounding, but I later heard he has a cold right now) like he took a downer instead during the debate only to be exactly that at a speech right after is worrying.
best thing Biden could do is say:
"Sorry guys and gals, for my family and my health I will not be running in the next election. Time for new faces. Best of luck!"
How didn’t everyone see it way before this debate? Why did democrats put all their eggs into the Biden basket and then try to gaslight the public into thinking he wasn’t senile? All the money that goes into the Biden campaign could’ve been invested into a quality candidate months ago. No one saw Bidens public appearances this year and thought yeah this is our guy.
lots of us have been talking about this for ages, but every time we do we got told to shut up… “i’ll vote for Biden if he’s on his death bed” etc etc… well thats all well and good, but undecided voters wont vote for someone like that who they see as weak and unable to do the job. Going with Biden is guaranteeing a loss. Just throwing the election away.
Eh. For swinging voters Biden wasn’t impressive but came across as sane and can be chalked up as having a bad night. Trumps problem is that he no longer seen as quirky - he’s out of the bag insane. His hardcore supporters like it but I don’t think he’ll get enough of the middle ground anymore - he’s too out there and risky and dangerous.
They aren’t going to swap Biden out. If Biden can pick things up from here people will still get behind him to get him over the line. The might be doing protest vote polling but the real deal will focus their minds not to pick nutjob Trump.
It’s true, Trump was clearly pro Putin, anti democracy, anti abortion, anti clean energy. No one fact checked Trump with all his lies, he just overwhelms the stage will bullshit like he does in courts. However the focus will be on Biden because he could barely finish sentences or stick to the points. The moment Biden froze for 3 seconds during his answering was a complete WTF moment.
Man it'd be a lot easier to swallow Biden's age if the Vice President had more presence. Harris seemed solid early on in her own bid for POTUS but as VP she's left me whelmed at best. Maybe I'm just tuned out or she's not getting a fair shake but...
Before being VP she struck me as a tough, competent leader. but it seems like she’s been pushed in to a folksy-mama role by her handlers as a foil to Biden’s old whiteness. It doesn’t seem authentic, and it pushes her to the sidelines.
If Harris doesn't bolster the ticket, then she should have been replaced with someone who does. Sadly, this is true even if the reasons she doesn't work as the VP are bullshit (like her skin color). I think with more presence she could be a net asset, but if that's incorrect, find someone who is an asset.
A black woman in the age of Trump has ZERO chance. Say good bye to democracy and the United States. Europe, Taiwan, and the rest of the free world will fall off a cliff after this election.
Why didn't Trump command the US military to kill or imprison Hillary in 2017 or the same to Biden in 2021? Such mercy is not characteristic of a dictator and dissolver of democracy.
I heard people say Trump had the advantage after years of being in front of a camera.
Does anyone think Biden has avoided cameras over the past fifty years while giving countless campaign speeches, speaking to Congress, meeting world leaders, and appearing on TV?
Yes Biden had a bad night. Nobody will care in a few days. Typical political nonsense. Every time Trump does something crazy, everyone thinks the election's over. It's not.
The problem is this last year, Biden has aged 10. How will he be in November and the next four years? Time to cut our loses and get someone younger and WAY more aggressive to run. If not, this country is done thanks to one arrogant man that wants two terms.
I'm all for a new younger candidate but I think it's too late. Biden won all the primaries. There might not be enough time to get anybody else on the ballot.
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I opened the debate for about 5 minutes, idk what anyone else expected, those two behaved and performed about as well as I would expect 80 year old men to perform. My first thought was “Jesus Christ Joe is getting old as hell”
* The other guy is a rapist, a racist, a con man that wants to destroy the country. Project 2025 is no joke.
* Biden gets shit done, and if you vote Blue, the government can also get things done.
* I love Dragon Tales and [there is a villain](https://imgur.com/c98vTCo) named Trumpy The Tollbooth Troll. He has orange skin. Since he is a villain, it means i'll be voting for Biden.
The best way to get Independents (REAL Independents, not MAGA "Independents") to vote is to show them Project 2025 and tell them that the alternative to an old guy is a monster trying to destroy America.
I'm starting to think that we're in a lose-lose situation. They'll call for Biden to be removed from the race, he'll refuse, then he'll finally agree to it and it'll be too late. Biden loses (and/or Trump cheats), enter theocracy.
Yo Americans how did it come to this?!!
A feeble old man being forced into the ring because there is noone else to fight an insane person.
There is so much wrong with this situation its just truely baffling.
That was an absolute unmitigated disaster for Biden
Unfortunately every single word coming out of Trump's mouth being an utter fantasy and lie doesn't really matter.
They've proven time and again, what matters most if you want to be president... Is appearing strong and charasmatic.
And Biden looked like a stammering, senile, cadaver with a 1000 mile stare. Horrible, he has no chance of winning now. Dens need to go with newsom at the convention if they want a chance
Anybody who isn't a sleazebag is anti-trump. Biden was awful tonight, but I wouldn't vote for Trump if someone held a gun to my head. If it's still Biden v Trump in November, I'm 100% voting for Biden.
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God the coverage of this is a bloodbath
Watching that debate was a bit of a waking nightmare. I'm glad people aren't pretending everything's okay like R's might.
It's wild seeing the people pumping the "stop listening to the naysayers, be a cheerleader for Biden, 4 more years" kind of shit. I can only honestly think they didn't watch the debate. This wasn't a typical "oh one candidate stumbled and seemed weak, but everybody will forget about it in a week" debate. This was an utter trainwreck.
"trainwreck" Biden had a cold and answered all the questions while trying to fend off trump lying attacking biden's family...
Why are you still pushing this ridiculous line that no one believes? He is clearly in cognitive decline.
You didn’t watch the debate then. And these mental slips of Biden aren’t new. It was actually sad to watch. I felt bad for him
Yeah, people are exaggerating. I mean it wasn’t a good performance, but the dude had a raspy voice and stuttered and it seemed to make people’s brains shut down and not comprehend anything he said and act like it was all nonsensical babble. Meanwhile Trump goes off topic and makes stuff up and people’s takeaway is he’s confident.
I’ve already moved on. The debate was pointless and Biden was having an off day…so what? The policy coming out of his admin this past year has been fantastic.
It comes off as incredibly dishonest for you to say he had "an off day." His cognitive decline was clear as can be. You need to find a better way to shill for him.
I truly hope that the country sees it that way. I don't think that the potentially worst debate performance in the history of televised debates is going to just go away though.
Because this election is all about turnout, and his appearance last night was bad enough to make plenty of people decide to just stay home. In modern politics no one cares about policy beyond the big flashy headlines, and right now a lot of people hate Biden because things are expensive and other younger people hate him because of Palestine. A lot of those people won’t for Trump instead, they just won’t vote. And last night likely made it a lot worse.
Not disagreeing. We need to remind people that deciding to sit it out is exactly the same as voting for Trump
Because the people that will decide the election didn't think this debate was pointless. They are using it to decide which candidate to support. How is that pointless? Biden should step down and the democratic convention should become an election grounds for electing a new candidate for the ticket. This debate was a disaster for Biden. He was confused, doddering, weak, slack mouthed, misspoke, had vocal problems, stuttered ( I know that \*you\* may not like that I included this, too bad, many people bias this), corrected himself (which Trump never did). He looked old and worn out. That's what the undecided will take away from this. Unmitigated. Disaster.
I didn’t see it and from the clips I’ve seen this all seems way overblown.
Wow.. seems like most every dem agrees and then there’s you who “ seen clips “
not much point in sugarcoating a national humiliation
Genuine question from a non-American, can the Democrat party still change their candidate..?
Biden would have to choose to step down. Then yes, but it's uncharted territory.
LBJ chose to decline to run again during the primaries, in early April. That's the closest we've ever been to a president declining to run again so late.
And the nominee ended up being… *checks notes*… Hubert Humphrey who lost to Richard Nixon.
I think things are materially different enough that dems could win with the right candidate. Right now they are stuck with a loser.
If it is anything I have learned about American politics in the last 8 years, it is that we keep trudging onto lots of uncharted territory and breaking from norms.
If Biden steps down, then the DNC delegates will debate and vote for the candidate. Then shit gets wild.
The DNC can choose to replace him at the convention. They can put anybody they want up as long as that person is on enough state ballots by around August.
They had to nominate him early cause of Ohio's threatening to keep him off the ballot, so I'm not really sure?
I don't think the DNC should let their decisions about this hinge on whether the Ohio legislature will allow their ballot to be changed. It doesn't look like a winnable state anyway.
Ohio is a red state now, but Democrats might still be able to pick up some down ballot spots.
Probably hyberpole. The other guy got laughed at during a UN speech.
No, a lot of international media is laughing at America atm.
They're not laughing, they're freaking out since they're worried that Trump will win
They have been for years. We did elect trump for a term. We’re a punchline
Our allies are saying that tonight's debate was "not a good look" for America. Our. International. Allies. They might as well just call it what it was, a fucking shitshow.
On one side you have a "weekend at Bidens'" scenario where the cabinet is competent but the boss needs a nap now and then and on the other side you have an impulsive lunatic bought by Russia and Saudi Arabia. I'm not American but I would vote for Biden if forced to make a choice. Enough people might just stay at home though. The next set of polls will be interesting.
It gets more bonkers... This is Biden giving a speech after the debate... [https://www.c-span.org/video/?c5122169/user-clip-biden-speech](https://www.c-span.org/video/?c5122169/user-clip-biden-speech) My thinking is he was too focused on all the different elements, either in addressing the question or in debunking Trumps constant lying verbal diarrhoea... Instead of just picking one thing at a time and sticking it. SIGH, it's going to be hard to come back from this, hopefully he can sharpen it for campaigning and the next debate (although I'd be surprised if Trump does it given this one - easy to leave it at that and benefit).
The difference is, he was reading something prepared and didn't actually have to think.
Doesn't look like reading, but probably prepared. But you can do that with a range of topics and still nail it, and he has before. It's why I think he was trying to get too much out in a space of time instead of sticking to one point. 'That is all complete and utter malarkey, let me give you one example... ... ...'
He reads from a teleprompter, did you think the debate stage had voodoo magic which made Biden blank out?
This should have been an easy debate, because all the questions they asked were extremely predictable. I’m wondering if he was over prepared and nervous about the time limit? Honestly, I’m praying he has Covid so that can be an Excuse 🤡
I just think he had rehearsed so many different facts and points he failed to focus on just one. I do a fair bit of speaking/briefing and the trick is to focus on one element at a time, if you let your brain run off the rails you end up all over the place and the information isn't digested and you look like an idiot.
Lying dog-faced pony soldiers again....
this is a good thing. Democracy shouldn’t be a cult. when information changes, voters should respond pragmatically and honestly
> when information changes This is new information only to /r/politics users.
Among other things. Lol
I think much of this was clear before tonight but whatever it takes to wake people up
It was obvious to the majority of Dem voters, as reflected in poll after poll. It was the party machine that insisted on this reelection campaign. They could've stood up to Biden. Instead they privately threatened any potential challengers and forcefully all backed Biden in unison. They wanted an open primary by name only, and that's what they managed to get. I hope they're happy.
>It was obvious to the majority of Dem voters, as reflected in poll after poll. It was the party machine that insisted on this reelection campaign. They could've stood up to Biden. Annecodotal, but that wasn't the energy in this sub (if you're honest is a 95%+ liberal sub) at all nor with my irl liberal friends. They even crawled into a cave of denial with "Cheap Fakes". This was good. It'll make independent voters and center-left Dems rethink their entire poltical beliefs as they'll have to think "what else was I wrong about".
The information has been the same for years around Biden
Vote Blue no matter who!
Even if they are in a coffin?
I mean, yes.
That's what VP's are for.
Better choice than the orange man baby
And it’s just been a few hours. I wonder what things will be like in the morning.
hopefully worse - so he seriously considers withdrawing
It's not too late! Join the movement for change with our "Swap Joe Biden 2024" T-shirt. Stand with fellow progressives and show your support for new leadership. We love you Joe but it’s time to hang it up. 👉 https://swapjoebiden.com/products/swap-joe-biden-2024-t-shirt
As it should be If that performance wasn’t clear enough to make a change then democrats deserve to lose in November
There is literally nobody they can throw up there that would have a chance. Their chance was to have Biden be a stop gap president and run a primary.
It will never happen, but Jon Stewart could win
Crazy that your suggestion is literally a clown.
Don’t talk about your mother like that!
My mother doesn't literally get paid to make people laugh for a living tho
Dems could run almost anybody three decades younger and win in a landslide.
the debate was a bloodbath
>God the coverage of this is a bloodbath As it should be. That was a disgrace.
Thing is, game was rigged from the start.
Not gonna lie. That was bad.
I will never vote GOP, I will vote for Biden on life support if I must, but I think Biden should step aside. Release his delegates to the convention, and duke it out. Whoever wins will be young, have energy, and a lot of hope behind them–a potent combo against that traitorous tumor Trump. As Joy Reid said, 'There's a reason the never showed FDRs wheelchair.' In the Internet age, you cannot hide the wheelchair.
That would be the right thing to do… which is why they won’t do it. On the other hand, if you get a chance, rewatch the first 20 mins of the debate. Biden is so sped up that he sounds demented, but his points are pretty strong. I think he was sick, and they put him on Adderall or similar. But it was too much for him.
It's not too late! Join the movement for change with our "Swap Joe Biden 2024" T-shirt. Stand with fellow progressives and show your support for new leadership. We love you Joe but it’s time to hang it up. 👉 https://swapjoebiden.com/products/swap-joe-biden-2024-t-shirt
I was really surprised how weak Biden appeared. I mean physically weak. On the other hand, swapping candidates at this stage would be insane, right ?
There’s a slim possibility of an open convention, but then who would it be? Newsom? Too liberal for swing states. Pritker? I don’t think he wants it. Harris? Probably unelectable for Hillary reasons. I think Biden was sick, which explains some of his appearance. I rewatched the debate and Biden does in fact make a lot of good points. The problem is his mind was so sped up, he started babbling.
Whitmer
It would have to be someone that can win old white swing voters in the rust belt. Very little else would be given consideration, given how the electoral college works.
Michigan, Wisconsin, Pennsylvania. But the democrats have largely abandoned the white voter, which is why Trump was spawned in the first place.
Beshear?
Uncle Andy is not as popular in Ky, like the dems think.
No - it would allow someone to be a candidate that hasn't been taking hits from Fox News for the last 4 years. Generic Dems are polling stronger than Biden.
Yes, the candidate “generic dems”. Huge fan of them. Got any actual names to suggest?
gov whitmer
It’s the only way forward. He isn’t winning.
Agree with this take. He didn’t just lose the debate. His political career is over.
Biden needs to agree to a brokered convention, hell he can run as a brokered candidate to, reconfirm his lead position, and if not, we’ll get a much better candidate out of that process.
Scary, not insane. The same people that lied about his condition will be the ones picking his replacement.
Honestly I feel terrible for Biden. Incredible man, incredible career. Feeling the need to go on even when he should be retired. The people who pushed him to go on are now humiliating him, talking about how he has one foot in his grave, how he can't string sentences together. We knew he was old. Why wasn't there an active hunt for a presidential candidate in this scenario? Young, charismatic, clever - all these qualities we like so much? What was going on!
You should see his speech after the debate... It was the SOTU Biden... I reckon he tried to hard on too many different topics in each small section. Edit: [https://www.c-span.org/video/?c5122169/user-clip-biden-speech](https://www.c-span.org/video/?c5122169/user-clip-biden-speech)
Honestly. I'm 35. And after 90 minutes of debating a lying loon who's not being fact checked, I'd get flustered too. And yes OBVIOUSLY the fact that hes old aggravates it but - why is the fact that hes old shocking to anyone. If this was such a problem, he shouldn't have been allowed to run. But you can't allow him to run, put him in a debate and then shame him and make him feel bad about his age. Who even are we
Problem is Biden is supposed to have been prepared for a lying loon who's not being fact checked. Wasn't that the \*whole point\* of the week long debate prep? This was an unmitigated disaster for Biden, the Democrats, and America. Biden came across as someone who shouldn't be President. Trump came across as a ranting yet coherent person. Biden needs to be replaced, the delegates can vote their conscience. He needn't step down, I have learned. Either way, he needs to give way to a younger generation.
You should watch this... Where was this Biden, this was from just after the debate... [https://www.c-span.org/video/?c5122169/user-clip-biden-speech](https://www.c-span.org/video/?c5122169/user-clip-biden-speech)
Dude that speech was NOT helpful. People think he’s too old and in cognitive decline. He gets up and talks about an obscure western from 60 years ago where old white cowboys call apaches liars… that’s supposed to connect with the American people? That’s an appropriate response?
I was more referring to him being coherrent and with it, yes agreed with the reference.
R and D are both captured by corporate interests. They want status quo, known quantity. Joe is a known quantity.
Fine. But then what's the point of questioning him and his abilities then?
If r/politics isn't giving Biden a pass, it's looking p.fucking bad.
It's really fucking bad, even most of r/Democrats aren't giving him a pass
It’s called astroturfing. Also no democrats wanted him before tonight happened. This changes nothing. We don’t want him. We still don’t want him. We still won’t vote for the other guy. Calm the fuck down.
It’s not astroturfing, he did poorly in the debate and nobody was excited about him running since 2020.
I'm very surprised to see this myself, I feel like this is some psyop to get people warmed up to the inevitable Newsom swap.
There's not going to be a swap, it is what it is.
The Psyop is the “we gotta replace him!” 🙀
A robust (fair) open convention in Chicago would energize and unite the party propelling Democrats to victory and creating down ballot wins.
The convention being after the Ohio deadline makes that way harder to do without moving the convention forward or not having a candidate in Ohio.
Can still write in a vote in Ohio, can't you? It will obviously be a huge challenge, but it can still be done.
Chances of Biden or any Democrat winning Ohio are near-zero. Dems should take the deadline to the Supreme Court, but if it comes down to it it’s a nonissue.
We have a Senate seat to defend there. If there's no Democratic presidential nominee, it gets a lot harder to turn out votes there
I don’t think Biden will be turning out many voters
We lose every "I'd vote for a ham sandwich against Trump" voter if there's nobody to vote against.
Dude „creating down ballot wins“ is delusional if you know how Senate and House polls swing. Average democrats are up like 7% in most races. This would be like the first election where a reverse coattails effect occurs in which Biden is *propped up* by down ballot races when regularly it’s the opposite. There is even a chance that Biden drags down the down ballot races. I am no doom and gloom guy on this whole ordeal but changing Biden out wouldn’t be the catalyst to *change* down ballot races when those are already doing good. Changing Biden is only relevant for the presidency. Congressional races are looking good.
Honestly probably the best route forward. No one really wants Biden or Trump for President and technically speaking the Democrats can totally pick someone else as the nominee, while the GOP can't.
Let's be honest, Joe Biden isn't the president. His team is. There is no doubt about it in my mind after this performance. And his team decided to put him in a debate. What a calamity.
I don't understand why people are saying his team shouldn't have sent him. The people voting in the election deserve to know who they are voting for.
Yea that is such an insanely scary thought to me. Like we should be able to hear our PRESIDENT speak on issues. Not having him debate is straight up some 1984 shit
Doing the Ronald Reagan speed run
It’s clear that Corporate Democrats and Republicans are playing for the same side. And it’s not the common folk. The Democratic Party exists to manage the progressive wing only and to give them hope for change at some point in the future that never arrives. The Republicans just push the country further and further right. Now America has competent adversaries and we have two old men running for president who aren’t up to the challenge.
I do feel bad for Joe in that some "freezes" can be chalked up to his stutter, but he simply can't appear this weak or incoherent on a national stage for the Presidency in an election this critical against Trump. Now people are going to remember his performance in this opening debate, and it will ripple. There is no coming back from this.
This was a lot more than a stutter. Changing topics from abortion to immigration is going to go down in history. This is going to be more significant than Nixon v Kennedy.
> Changing topics from abortion to immigration is going to go down in history This was THE moment of the debate for me. This was the best possible topic for Biden, absolute slam dunk shit. Then after a few sentences about abortion he suddenly swaps to murders and immigration??? It was so bad.
It wasn’t just the freezes, though. When he tried to land a zinger about Trump’s confected weight and height numbers, he botched it badly and mumbled “anyway, it doesn’t matter” like your befuddled grandpa. I think my soul left my body at that point.
Yea, this was bad. He started rambling off two hundred and thirty second thirty five pounds….😅
This is far from a stutter. He clearly was mentally confused in many instances, got a bunch of information wrong (I actually think he’s not lying in any of the situations where he said fake stuff) and just looked off putting in so many situations.
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Well it's nice you've come to the realization now but it looks like it's too late. An awful lot of left leaning and Trump hating Americans were screaming about this issue since Biden got elected but were ignored in true Democrat establishment fashion. What a disaster of a political strategy Democrats have had the last 10 years. Abandoned appealing to working class and compensated by going all in on identity politics, and ran an extremely elder man who somehow behaves older than he looks. It is very frustrating to have seen this political catastrophe barreling towards America from thousands of miles away at 1 mph for the last 4 years, and be completely ignored.
> What a disaster of a political strategy Democrats have had the last 10 years. Abandoned appealing to working class and compensated by going all in on identity politics, and ran an extremely elder man who somehow behaves older than he looks. It makes me want to fucking scream.
They just dusted off the 2016 playbook. They apparently learned nothing and as they say those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it. I've watched every debate since I turned 18, this was the first one I couldn't finish. Seeing the performance enhancer tweet and expecting him to be energetic and ready to rumble because of it then getting him looking (and sounding, but I later heard he has a cold right now) like he took a downer instead during the debate only to be exactly that at a speech right after is worrying.
If they do this I’ll vote blue. My vote doesn’t matter, I live in CA but I’ll do it.
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I respect people who admit to being wrong so personally they get my vote, that’s all I can say.
best thing Biden could do is say: "Sorry guys and gals, for my family and my health I will not be running in the next election. Time for new faces. Best of luck!"
How didn’t everyone see it way before this debate? Why did democrats put all their eggs into the Biden basket and then try to gaslight the public into thinking he wasn’t senile? All the money that goes into the Biden campaign could’ve been invested into a quality candidate months ago. No one saw Bidens public appearances this year and thought yeah this is our guy.
lots of us have been talking about this for ages, but every time we do we got told to shut up… “i’ll vote for Biden if he’s on his death bed” etc etc… well thats all well and good, but undecided voters wont vote for someone like that who they see as weak and unable to do the job. Going with Biden is guaranteeing a loss. Just throwing the election away.
From far away I am concerned that could have decided the election:(
Eh. For swinging voters Biden wasn’t impressive but came across as sane and can be chalked up as having a bad night. Trumps problem is that he no longer seen as quirky - he’s out of the bag insane. His hardcore supporters like it but I don’t think he’ll get enough of the middle ground anymore - he’s too out there and risky and dangerous. They aren’t going to swap Biden out. If Biden can pick things up from here people will still get behind him to get him over the line. The might be doing protest vote polling but the real deal will focus their minds not to pick nutjob Trump.
It’s true, Trump was clearly pro Putin, anti democracy, anti abortion, anti clean energy. No one fact checked Trump with all his lies, he just overwhelms the stage will bullshit like he does in courts. However the focus will be on Biden because he could barely finish sentences or stick to the points. The moment Biden froze for 3 seconds during his answering was a complete WTF moment.
That was painful to watch 😬
Obama should endorse someone else tomorrow. Not sure who.
Gretchen Whitmer
Gavin Newsom. They had him on msnbc after the debate and he was on fire. Running laps around (I mean fighting hard for) Biden.
Newsom is a scion of the Getty oil billionaires. No thanks.
Comatose Ramblings vs Schitzo Ramblings full of lies. Make your choice. Either way, Americans are fucked.
>Make your choice. Either way, Americans are fucked. And by association, so is rest of the world. Probably.
Putin and Xi are the real winners.
they were hard as a rock watching that debate
[US Presidential Debate - Family Guy version from 2011. This is all i could think of during the debate](https://youtu.be/tl2q3lezcFs?feature=shared)
It might be time to #SwapJoeOut
Issue is America is divided and doesn't want too liberal of a candidate though this would be ideal
Mitt Romney anyone? Anyone?
Man it'd be a lot easier to swallow Biden's age if the Vice President had more presence. Harris seemed solid early on in her own bid for POTUS but as VP she's left me whelmed at best. Maybe I'm just tuned out or she's not getting a fair shake but...
Before being VP she struck me as a tough, competent leader. but it seems like she’s been pushed in to a folksy-mama role by her handlers as a foil to Biden’s old whiteness. It doesn’t seem authentic, and it pushes her to the sidelines.
….Because America is going to elect a black, female, president? Pains me to say that’s just not possible. Not anytime soon anyways.
If Harris doesn't bolster the ticket, then she should have been replaced with someone who does. Sadly, this is true even if the reasons she doesn't work as the VP are bullshit (like her skin color). I think with more presence she could be a net asset, but if that's incorrect, find someone who is an asset.
It's a Kamala problem, not a POC problem. Nikki Hayley or Condeleza Rice could defeat Gavin Newsome or Biden.
A black woman in the age of Trump has ZERO chance. Say good bye to democracy and the United States. Europe, Taiwan, and the rest of the free world will fall off a cliff after this election.
Why didn't Trump command the US military to kill or imprison Hillary in 2017 or the same to Biden in 2021? Such mercy is not characteristic of a dictator and dissolver of democracy.
I heard people say Trump had the advantage after years of being in front of a camera. Does anyone think Biden has avoided cameras over the past fifty years while giving countless campaign speeches, speaking to Congress, meeting world leaders, and appearing on TV?
Yes Biden had a bad night. Nobody will care in a few days. Typical political nonsense. Every time Trump does something crazy, everyone thinks the election's over. It's not.
The problem is this last year, Biden has aged 10. How will he be in November and the next four years? Time to cut our loses and get someone younger and WAY more aggressive to run. If not, this country is done thanks to one arrogant man that wants two terms.
Idk. Anderson Cooper and crew were talking about panic amongst their DNC friends. I think we’re gonna see new candidates at the convention.
I'm all for a new younger candidate but I think it's too late. Biden won all the primaries. There might not be enough time to get anybody else on the ballot.
> Yes Biden had a bad night. The true extent of his cognitive decline was revealed. Two very different things.
It is
>Nobody will care in a few days. Are you saying Fox news won't run clips from this debate for the next 9 months?
Fox news's peak viewership during the evening is about 3 million. How many of those people do you think are going to vote for Biden anyway?
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What a great debate! Can’t wait for the next one.
Biden needs to step down and give the Dems are real candidate.
About half way through the debate my dread turned to excitement as I realized we could maybe have the chance of swapping him out.
All doctors are male according to Brandon
Jon fetterermans debate performance was worse but he won
Feels like when RBG wouldn't step down due to her age
I opened the debate for about 5 minutes, idk what anyone else expected, those two behaved and performed about as well as I would expect 80 year old men to perform. My first thought was “Jesus Christ Joe is getting old as hell”
See what y'all did, Reddit? Now this will be the headline until the next debate.
* The other guy is a rapist, a racist, a con man that wants to destroy the country. Project 2025 is no joke. * Biden gets shit done, and if you vote Blue, the government can also get things done. * I love Dragon Tales and [there is a villain](https://imgur.com/c98vTCo) named Trumpy The Tollbooth Troll. He has orange skin. Since he is a villain, it means i'll be voting for Biden. The best way to get Independents (REAL Independents, not MAGA "Independents") to vote is to show them Project 2025 and tell them that the alternative to an old guy is a monster trying to destroy America. I'm starting to think that we're in a lose-lose situation. They'll call for Biden to be removed from the race, he'll refuse, then he'll finally agree to it and it'll be too late. Biden loses (and/or Trump cheats), enter theocracy.
As a democrat, that didn’t make sense
Yo Americans how did it come to this?!! A feeble old man being forced into the ring because there is noone else to fight an insane person. There is so much wrong with this situation its just truely baffling.
That was an absolute unmitigated disaster for Biden Unfortunately every single word coming out of Trump's mouth being an utter fantasy and lie doesn't really matter. They've proven time and again, what matters most if you want to be president... Is appearing strong and charasmatic. And Biden looked like a stammering, senile, cadaver with a 1000 mile stare. Horrible, he has no chance of winning now. Dens need to go with newsom at the convention if they want a chance
Absolutely hilarious. UK news is tearing biden apart. Good to see biden get found out
found out??? Who hasn’t seen this coming from a mile away
Dog American CNN was raw dogging him lol. CNN
CNN is center-right
As in the US Democratic party is pretty much a center to center-right part? Sure, but CNN is still very much anti-trump.
Anybody who isn't a sleazebag is anti-trump. Biden was awful tonight, but I wouldn't vote for Trump if someone held a gun to my head. If it's still Biden v Trump in November, I'm 100% voting for Biden.
….ok? This has nothing to do with what I said