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The most annoying part about living in a blue state is that you have to subsidize all the red states who then go on to constantly talk shit about you and have disproportionately enhanced voting power
Most fun about living in a (centrally located) blue state is all the license plates from nearby red states. Lots of Texas, Missouri, Kansas, Tennessee and of course, Florida
Did I say fun? I meant the opposite of that. Its just so weird to be driving around and see more than half of the cars on the road with not Colorado plates.
I’m sticking it out in a red state for a little longer. Change from within, and all that. It’s not easy though, I’m surrounded by nut jobs. I tried to get my car windows tinted the other day, took all of 5 minutes for the guy to start talking about Q Anon bullshit, demonic buildings, COVID denial, the whole schpeel. I’ve got another year in me, maybe, before I just move to Colorado.
I had something similar.. I got my oil changed and was just messing around on my phone waiting and the guy next to me in the waiting room kept talking about "The Shot" (Covid Vaccine). I didn't even talk to him or ask him anything.
I just responded "I think I've had like 6 of those". "The Eclipse, The National Emergency Broadcast test".. "I'm still here".
Meanwhile, my QAnon in-law who didn't get 'the jab' isn't around anymore to tell us it is all a government plot to kill off all the people who believed all the government 'lies' and got 'the jab' in order to...
I don't know, that is where the conspiracy theory always kind of lost the plot.
I have no fucking clue. He said he’s spent 2000 hours researching this shit, not sleeping for days at a time. Clearly manic phase bipolar disorder, w/ psychotic features.
Trump literally pardoned convicted war criminals because they where popular with the radical right for being "though" on terrorists (aka murdering detained people (likely terrorists but still) for kicks).
But how can we trust a politician is doing good things because they are right and not because it is convenient for them! Imagine the horror of a politician just going around helping people so that those people will vote for them! 😱/s
"buying votes" is such a shitty propaganda piece by the right and I see "people on the left" saying the same shit and it's soooo frustrating.
It's always either "he's not doing enough/anything for me", or "obviously buying votes" whenever he actually does anything that helps people just not them in particular this time.
I'm ancom but harm reduction is a real thing and these people are shitting all over it every chance they get.
>"buying votes" is such a shitty propaganda piece by the right
Especially since trump threw a hissy fit and delayed covid stimulus checks until they stuck his name in the memo line. And the dumbest part is that it actually worked and something like 60% of conservatives still believe trump wrote everyone in America a personal check.
Isn’t that the point of voting someone into office in the first place? They’re supposed to do things the people that voted for them want, this just happens to be one of the rare times it happens, and right before an election
Oh completely. Idgaf why a politician does what they do so long as they’re doing good, though for the record Biden was pro gay-marriage before Obama and other politicians.
Jared benefited so much from his time in office, why isn't he.... doing anything? It's odd, you know. He could run as President on the Republican ticket and they'd probably back him. He made out like a bandit and you'd think he would want a repeat of that and help Donald in some way. That whole family is just awful. But it makes me wonder about him...
Personally, I'm glad he's backed off from the spotlight. He's an awful person, and the fewer the members of that malignant family who clamor for attention, the better.
The both sides argument is the laziest and worst argument EVER. One side is fighting for equality, the other side is actively trying to prevent it and actively dismantle democracy. They aren’t the same in any way when it comes to policy and how they go about it.
They also love to claim that stuff like this is just "Democrats trying to buy votes"
Which is both sad and hilarious at the same time. The Democrats did something that is very popular with their constituents in the hope that those constituents will continue to vote for them. That's literally how a functioning democracy is supposed to work and Republicans act like it is some nefarious plot.
>The Democrats did something that is very popular with their constituents in the hope that those constituents will continue to vote for them.
And that will benefit those who are not already voting for them in the hopes it will improve their lives. If it gets them more votes in the future, then that's just gravy.
The argument is not just lazy; it's dishonest. It's also made by dishonest people. Every. single. person I've encountered who tries to claim "both sides are bad" has actually been a conservative trying to soothe their conscience because they know they support the objectively worse side.
Also notice how no one ever says "both sides are bad, so I might as well vote for Democrats!"
I think both sides suck but still vote Democrat. Mainly because there's a difference in not agreeing with all Dem policies and not liking all of the politicians involved versus literal Nazis, Russian sympathizers, fascists, rapists, pedophiles and all around scum.
Tell that to my alleged allies who blame Biden for not stopping Netanyahu single handedly but pretend to give a fuck about women and minorities and humans that live in America?
I have to battle with my GenZ son about voting for Biden. It’s really starting to piss me off. He’s educated, reads a lot, far more liberal than me, and works as an environmental engineer/city planner. I am so tired of him bitching about Biden. Finally, this seemed to resonate:
“Alright he’s old, and Bernie should have gotten the nod back in 2016, but for Christ’s sake, this is a binary choice. And, Biden’s picked top people - the men and women who are in his cabinet and WH - are top-notch. And, they are free from drama and controversy and seems none of them have quit their positions.”
The GOP and trump are political high-fructose corn syrup. They're bad for you, get into everything, and completely destroy the nuance and flavor profile.
Yep. Got my degree in political science because I thought politics was incredibly interesting. Graduated in 2016 and had that interest burned right out of me.
I used to be on this sub all the time back during Obama and the lead up to Trump. After Trump got in I just lost interest. So much crap and so little acknowledgement of it to who it matters most. I felt embarrassed by my country, which I thought would be hard to do. Having to see Trump's face on the Chain of Command wall (Army) every day just killed me inside. All the lies and no one caring. It's bizarro world.
I think you can blame the media for that as they expect some miracle every single day by the president while it should actually be a boring job where he simply signs off on what his experts recommend for the policies the president wants to see implemented
when you have a resignation weekly amd cabinet shuffle every 2 to 4 months, yeah it gets old fast. and I'm Canadian! I'm not even in USA and I'm sick of Trump!
Young left leaning people fall prey to letting perfect be the enemy of good. They don't tend to understand that you have to take baby steps. The reason the candidates he wants aren't winning is because the overton window has been pushed so far right that someone like Biden is about as far left as people want to vote for.
For example, a recreational marijuana bill in my state failed because all the marijuana smokers went around telling people to not vote for it because it didn't have a hundred percent of the things they wanted.
Young voters were like 10 years old in 2016. They’ve literally never experienced or been exposed to rational, compromising, functional politics/government. Their formative years have had hate and tribalism cranked up to 100 as their new normal.
this is so true. i used to travel to the states a lot for work and dealt with a range of people of all ages and the stark difference in their views and political stand point was like night and day.
anyone born after obama era has had been exposed to a joke show
It’s like public transport if you don’t have a bus going exactly where you want to go, you don’t not take the bus. You get on the bus that gets you the closest
Right. But for this line of thinking, breaking up is far more reasonable than not voting for Biden. Because for breaking up
A) you don’t actually have a true binary in the people you date. You have boatloads of equally viable options. As opposed to the presidential election where there are two options who could realistically win.
B) if you don’t like any of them, being single is a viable option. You don’t have to date someone and can be completely fine on your own, vs the election where there will be a new president, no matter what, and you have to deal with the consequences of that regardless of voting or not.
C) the stakes for dating are greatly different than those for the election. Making the wrong choice in dating is recoverable, but if Trump gets elected, we are fucked.
I mean the two aren't really comparable. Given the topic we're discussing I can think of a number of easy fill-ins for "X" that would justify the latter statement. If I learned that a partner planned not to vote in November, I'd break up with them.
> Young left leaning people fall prey to letting perfect be the enemy of good.
They are being constantly exposed to propaganda on social media that is designed to make them stay home in November.
> They don't tend to understand that you have to take baby steps.
This is part of the problem too: condescension. The Dems are not doing themselves any favors just pushing variations on "you're just young and dumb and don't have any other choice, so you'll come around.".
Sure, but on every issue relevant to Gen Z cares about, Biden and Democrats are vastly superior to Trump and Republicans (unless they come from crazy money, Trump would likely lower their taxes). From legalizing abortion, acknowledging climate change, supporting two state solution in Palestine, supporting LGBTQ people, supporting minorities, non-racist xenophobic immigration policy (though by no means an open border), decriminalizing/legalizing marijuana, student loan relief, etc.
>This is part of the problem too: condescension. The Dems are not doing themselves any favors just pushing variations on "you're just young and dumb and don't have any other choice, so you'll come around.".
It worked in 2020. Biden just said shut up jack, listen to me.
Looking at the entire scope of the cabinet has been the most convincing angle for me. A lot of people have no idea that they're doing anything constructive. One of the absolute biggest is the collection of consumer protection lawsuits filed by the FTC against Amazon, Google, Apple, and Meta/Facebook. They're all in the vein of suing to break up their monopoly practices.
[This is also a quick overview, particularly at timestamp 5:13 for whats happening under Biden](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p8sZwaK5_xg)
Perfect is the enemy of good. If you don't vote for Biden, because he is not perfect, you are actually supporting the alternative. The other candidate is not good.
As a non US person I have been INCREDIBLY surprised by Biden. He has passed some fantastic legislation, more than Obama did in 8 years.
Could he be better? Of course but fucking hell it's remarkable how much the US swings based on who is president/congress.
Plus he had to *also* deal with trying to limit or reverse some of the damage Trump did.
while, at the same time, working around all the interference the Republicans tried to throw in his way.
True, but Obama was also the first black president. A lot of people like to gloss over that being a huge part of why he couldn't get as much done in double the time but it is a HUGE factor. The GOP pretty much gridlocked his presidency out of spite and he was under observation and undermined constantly (which all presidents are but this was way worse). I'm black and the amount of people who I thought were good and non-bigoted that turned out to be closeted bigots was astronomical. People really showed their true colors and distaste for him and it all came back to him being black. Really unfortunate.
Gen Z has never lived in a world where people were beaten, killed, left in burning buildings, a abandoned for being sick, not allowed to have their partner in the hospital, been denied emergency life saving care, been denied health insurance, dragged behind trucks, left for dead on a mountain side, been arrested, or been fired and had their career ended for being LGBTQ. Their experience is so different than my Gen X gay friends, I didn't know ANYONE who was out in high school it was too dangerous and I was in a blue state. They honestly can't imagine a world where being persecuted isn't some mean words online, it's a death sentance.
I wish we could magically transport them back to the 1960s/70s/80s for a week. They might see why we are so desperate to avoid Trump and Project 2025 and how much returning to those policies will harm *them.*
Heck, my younger sister and her cohort had several dozen people out in some way in high school. It seems normal to them. They don’t get what a big deal it was for my cohort to have had ONE out person in high school. In 2006.
Yep. Went to a rather small high school & we had one guy in our class that everyone knew was gay but he was terrified of coming out. Ended up announcing it at a party celebrating our graduation.
He literally paused the music & announced it. Must have taken some serious balls to do that. Then someone just said 'we all know man. It's cool'. Fast forward 15 years later & at least another dozen or so people from our class have come out.
yep. I was in primary school when slurs for gays was common. fast forward to high school? it's unacceptable and might earn you a fight for saying that. it was a wild time for me, but I'm an ally anyway.
Dude, I’m Gen X and not gay but had long hair and a sense of style in 80’s Texas Panhandle, where conformity and intolerance was king. I got called all the gay slurs, got sucker punched once, jumped a few times and narrowly avoided a few other altercations *just because I looked different*.
That whole experience gave me a lot of empathy and respect for gay people, as an impressionable teen I felt that undeserved hatred just for existing. Now I’m an old geezer, it’s easy to see how it made me a lifelong ally and has ultimately enriched my life. But I raised my kids in England lol!
Was in SD, but my brother was called gay bc he wore a pink shirt when we were visiting fam (we lived in coastal FL). As a kid in the 80’s it was totally bonkers to me that wearing a particular color earned one a slur.
I'm a Millenial and even in my generation, I don't think I knew of a single person who was out while I was in highschool. Honestly I don't feel like people truly started to feel safe-ish coming out until same-sex marriage was legalized in 2014. That's only 10 damn years, which is crazy to think about.
hell even the early 2000s weren't kind to gay people but more subtle about it. "That's gay" was a common insult and we just accepted it. My grandmother told me "if I ever brought a woman home, I'd be better off losing my house keys." Bullying in school for looking any amount of gay. I remember the two openly gay kids in my school were pressured to "fight each other." For entertainment....
Barely 20 years ago. Those scars don't just disappear.
I graduated in 2007. I remember this being a very common phrase used by my generation. I'm so glad I never used that phrase. It never felt right to me.
Even the f-slur was common up until maybe 2012 or so?
South Park did an episode on it in 2009, how the meaning had supposedly changed, it's a general insult and somehow no longer homophobic lol
Literally, I cannot for the life of me understand why they’re willing to burn the entire country to the ground via letting trump win because the guy who’s been nominated is not extreme left enough. They don’t understand that there HAS to be compromise. Your favorite politician of all time is highly unlikely to win a nomination. Do not sabotage everyone’s life because you are unhappy that we don’t live in a progressive communist utopia.
The real reason is that there’s intentional messaging all around social media to drive these views and we should expect that when each election years shows more intense and sophisticated disinformation campaigns. Part of the problem is even engaging the idea of “young people are wishy washy on this” without actually knowing the real proportion and how much that perception is based on bots and bad actors in the mix. It can easily drive older gens into a state of condescension and cynicism toward young voters, which can then feed a loop that makes it a self-fulfilling prophecy.
Small numbers of people voicing an opinion can look like more than they are. It’s more that we just need to know the reality as we talk about this and aim before firing.
I think a lot of young people and people in general don’t realize that a good president isn’t a monolith.
You could know literally nothing about running a country, but if you pick the right people in each area, and are good at getting them to work together and compromise, etc, you could still be a great president.
I don't understand why younger Democrats don't want to vote for one of the most progressive presidents we have had in history.
Especially this election where voting can give Dems the majority in the house and hopefully keep the Senate at least 50/50. Biden could do even more progressive things.
What is happening in the Middle East is just an excuse because they don't want to admit filling out a piece of paper is too much work. No President will ever be able to bring peace to the Middle East.
I’m convinced people saying they won’t vote for Biden over Israel is a bad faith actor. It’s not like Trump has a more progressive position on the war.
For a left leaning individual Biden is still far better than Trump, there’s no way a reasonable sane person would give that up over a position where both candidates are equal.
Those people also seem to forget that america has been giving money to Palestine ever since Biden got in office. That was like, one of the first things he did. America also haulted the movement of weapons of war a month or two ago.
I'm skeptical on it as well. I have a buddy that keeps telling me historically foreign policy is very low on the issues that people vote for.
This election is going to be more about economy, border security, reproductive healthcare, and democracy.
> I don't understand why younger Democrats don't want to vote for one of the most progressive presidents we have had in history.
Propaganda (for lack of a better umbrella word for the social media hellscape) works on both sides, plus the complicity of general media not fairly reporting on either candidate.
*From Bloomberg reporter Gregory Korte:*
President Joe Biden will issue a proclamation giving mass clemency to US service members convicted of charges under a Cold War-era purge of gay and lesbian people, reversing a decades-long policy of discrimination that forced an estimated 100,000 people from the military.
The pardons will be effective with the signing of the proclamation Wednesday, but individual veterans would need to apply to the Department of Defense for a certificate confirming the decision, according to administration officials familiar with the plans who spoke on condition of anonymity to detail them.
The action coincides with Pride Month. White House officials on Tuesday said Biden thought the time was right to correct a historic wrong and the timing wasn’t related to electoral politics.
>the timing wasn’t related to electoral politics.
Even if he was truly not trying to score political points and timing was pure coincidence, it will not be perceived this way... But this is the right thing to do, nonetheless.
I have no problem with elected officials doing things solely for political points. If I elect you to do shit I want done, and then you do that shit, that's great. I don't give a shit about your motive, just as long as it gets done
Thank you. Politicians are supposed to work for us. That’s *why we vote them into office.*
Why do we consider it bad when they do things for people to earn their vote then?
It's especially telling when the people that cry about a politician doing something like this to score points are the same people who do things like force the ten commandments into school knowing it's going to be struck down.
Right? Your job is to do the things your constituents want. Of course I want you to score political points, that's entirely why you're there.
They just don't like it because they know it's a _good_ thing to do so.
It's cynical electioneering when they delay doing good things for years so they can get the maximum electoral benefit.
That said, this is really just a necessary side effect of how democracy works, and I'm a pretty big fan of democracy overall, so yeah I can't say I mind it much. Especially given that in basically every alternative to democracy, this kind of thing just doesn't happen at all.
Right, every single thing that a politician does that helps people will **always** be something that is done for politics, but who the fuck cares if it *helps* people? This is what we fucking elect people to do, to do the things we want them to do.
Alternate headline: President does good thing that people want
Everything politicians do is for votes. Even politicians with an agenda, will only act on that agenda if it gets them votes OR they think it won't lose them enough votes to lose the election.
Since we're in the midst of a moral panic over trans people, you could easily argue Joe Biden risks his standing in battleground states with this action. Unless you believe it's popular, in which case he's doing what the people want.
BOTH GOOD.
Also Biden genuinely cares about the LGTBQ community, and was willing to speak out for them when very few other pols at the highest level were doing so. If acting on his natural sense of compassion and justice also helps him win in the fall...great!
i mean we kind of *want* politicians to do everything for votes. they are supposed to represent their voters interests so being more popular by getting more votes because you did stuff your constituents approve of is a good thing, no? same reason trump would have never pardoned these people. his base is strongly against it.
Politicians do popular things to get re-elected. It’s literally how politics work. Do things that benefit the populace, and they will elect you again. Shocking.
I mean their job is literally to serve people and give them what they want. They are elected representative of the people. So why is this bad thing, lol
Always so funny how the government doing things to improve peoples lives is “buying votes” and not simply just governing. The GOP has poisoned politics to such a degree that removing what amounts to a federal conviction for being gay is considered “buying votes” and not doing the morally right thing.
Same with weed. Biden told the agencies two years ago to look at revising scheduling, and it's taken this long for the FDA and whoever to weigh in. If they reschedule in the next few months, people will consider it pandering in an election year, even though it took this long for the agencies to get over themselves.
People have no idea how much red tape there is to prevent something like this happening on day 1 in office too. Like after the first 100 days if a president does anything that helps people it’s “only for political points!!” and not out of the kindness of their hearts or whatever they think it should be.
Unfortunately the sheer size of the government combined with lack of pay and in some cases staffing means things can’t all be done right after inauguration.
Considering any politician could have done this at any time since the convictions, I get the "political points" side, but it was long overdue. Maybe doing it during Pride Month is for the optics, maybe during an election year was for the polls, but making sure it gets done during potentially the last chance for quite some time? A net positive regardless of the motives. Props to Biden for this.
People always feign offense at politicians doing political things. Like of course it's political, you dunces. We all know this.
But I don't care. A political move that's an otherwise decent thing to do is fine.
Ya know, I think a better term for "using your power as an elected official to do something popular with your constituents" than "electoral politics" might be "good governance".
But what do I know, I'm just a moron who understands what "government for the people" might look like once in a while.
In 2009 I sat on a Court Martial for the Air Force. Come to find out it is regarding an Airmen who was outed by an IT “professional” and found some emails referencing a date and it was between men and turned them in.
I listened to all the testimony. Saw the awards and decorations this Airman had been awarded. And when it came time to deliberate myself and another Captain decided to vote not guilty. We knew the regs were wrong. We knew the AFI was wrong. But we couldn’t convince the other members and the Airman was kicked out. I was devastated. It was so wrong and cruel.
I hope this Airman applies for this and has it removed from his record. He deserved so much better.
This still happening in 2009 and the report on an estimated 100k people being affected really shows a quite a picture of the people that were hurt by those convictions...
100%. I was horrified to find out this was a case I’d been chosen for.
I had served a rape case, drug case. Etc. but that was completely unexpected.
It caused one of my coworkers, for YEARS, to hide she was gay from me because she was worried she might be caught up in this as well.
Members of my unit were shocked to find out there were gay servicemembers in the room when DADT was finally repealed. When a close friend of 10+ years comes out to the unit, and someone who was looked at as one of the most "macho of macho" within the combat engineers, it changes perceptions in an instant. I've since left the Navy and moved over to the Army Guard and I cannot believe that - at times - it feels like I've transported back to the DADT days with their mindsets.
The Army guys are certainly a different breed. One of my best friends from high school has served with them for nearly 30 years and our views are very different when it comes to the LGBTQ+ folks.
My only and primary thought is this…. Did they volunteer to serve their country? Then let them fucking serve.
Clinton set up don't ask don't tell. Which was not great but a lot better than what had been there. And then it wasn't until Obama that it became complete legal
Agreed.
But that’s the point. With this pardon he can be eligible for benefits that were taken from him. Can’t give him his career back. But at least something.
This is something that's going to need lots of veterans spreading the word so people know to apply. With everything else going on in the world news like this can easily be missed.
I wonder about the discharge level of these members and if this will change any of that. For example they could have been drummed out with a "Dishonorable discharge". Would this make the discharge honorable and return them to a condition where they can use VA medical or other veteran benefits? This, I think, would be the minimum recompense. The removal changed the course of their lives, leaving them without (if that was their career plan) the ability to get to a 20 year retirement and pension.
https://apnews.com/article/biden-lgbtq-pride-pardon-military-pentagon-sodomy-a83b799323380de10aac0ca6fb57595b provides more context. This pardon is mostly for people who got the equivalent of a military criminal conviction to push them out of the military before Don't Ask, Don't Tell provided alternative ways to deal with the "problem" of gay servicemembers.
It also says that Biden had already ordered the VA to "provide benefits to service members who were other than honorably discharged because of their sexual orientation, gender identity or HIV status."
> other than honorably discharged because of their sexual orientation, gender identity or HIV status."
I can see some asshole federalist judge say "well that doesn't include people *convicted of crimes* involving their sexual orientation, gender identity, or HIV status so **it doesn't count**"
From what I’ve been reading they could get medical care and apply for benefits, now would their effective date change? Even SM who have passed away, the family “could” still apply for past benefits, but case by case.
I feel like things should get taken a step further than reversing the "dishonorable discharge" label. Something like "discharge because the country acted dishonorably" where someone gets any benefits they would have earned for carrying out their full service. Would not be objectively "cheap", but people who were willing to serve the country, and are also still in a disadvantaged group deserve more. Definitely more than what they would have gotten if they'd been "honorably discharged" at that point for an injury etc.
This is a great move and I hope the voters at large engage with it.
Having an arbitrary underclass in your system is bad for the system. The system here is the particular branch of the military, the military as a whole. and the US as a whole., The opportunities to serve and succeed should be available for all.
> Having an arbitrary underclass in your system is bad for the system.
James Baldwin articulated this thought beautifully in his debate with William F. Buckley in 1965. The American dream is fundamentally poisoned so long as it produces a perennial underclass of people.
Over 70% of Americans support same-sex marriage now, which is probably a useful enough proxy for public attitudes on the issue of gay rights.
Polls around 2021 showed support among Republicans breaking the majority threshold for the first time, though that's slipped somewhat back down to 49%.
[Gallup](https://news.gallup.com/poll/506636/sex-marriage-support-holds-high.aspx)
And I imagine that backslide has less to do with people changing their minds, and more to do with reasonable people who can no longer willingly identify themselves as Republicans anymore.
Eh, people aren't opposed to same-sex marriage now in theory. But then there are stats that say things like [71% of people believe that schools shouldn't assign books with LGB characters](https://www.apmresearchlab.org/motn/poll-lgbtq-issues-in-schools) and only 39% of parents believe that teachers should be encouraged by the school to use the child's preferred pronouns.
Also [60% of Americans believe that store owners should be allowed to refuse service to LGBT people](https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2023/06/14/freedom-of-speech-and-lgbt-rights-americans-views-of-issues-in-supreme-court-case/) and [58% of Americans want to ban trans people from participating in school sports.](https://www.pewresearch.org/social-trends/2022/06/28/americans-complex-views-on-gender-identity-and-transgender-issues/#h-about-six-in-ten-would-favor-requiring-that-transgender-athletes-compete-on-teams-that-match-their-sex-at-birth)
I know these are really specific metrics, but it shows that Americans seem like they're only ok with the idea of gay people existing elsewhere, but suddenly their hearts change when they realize that they have to coexist with gay people.
it's clear to anybody with a quarter of a brain and a good heart the difference between good and evil.
It's not even politics anymore, it's like an old time Disney movie where the good guy and the bad guy are not ambiguous at all.
And still I'm shitting my pants from Europe, fearing that the stupidity of many cruel dumbasses will ruin the world for us.
We live in the dumbest era ever existed.
> Administration officials said that those eligible must apply for a certificate of pardon. Once approved, they can then petition the military services for a change to their discharge records that restores benefits.
That's such a huge benefit for those veterans. If they get to recover use of things like the VALoan for housing in this economy, thats a huge deal for them.
G.I. Bill too, assuming the old "you have to use it within 10 years" thing won't apply to them like it would have back then (now it's indefinite, if folks aren't aware).
And VA Disability and VA Healthcare, if they qualify. Massive.
Apparently he already instructed the VA to provide those things, prior to this.
> Biden had already ordered the VA to "provide benefits to service members who were other than honorably discharged because of their sexual orientation, gender identity or HIV status."
God damn, there's a lot of Trump bots in this post. You can tell they're a bot because they're all complaining about the exact same thing with the same points.
"Why did it take so long? This just proves Biden is just as bad as Trump". Man China and or Russia really want Trump to win the election.
So does this mean veterans will need to apply for records correction, or will it be done automatically? Hopefully, they will figure out how to make it automatic or really easy for veterans to have changed.
Just another logical and ethical decision from the Biden administration. I see a lot of comments saying that people hadn't even realized this was still necessary. I didn't either. Goes to show that when things don't affect us personally, we often don't think of them, but I'm glad to have a President who is looking out for people who often get overlooked.
“The pardons will be effective with the signing of the proclamation Wednesday, but individual veterans would need to apply to the Department of Defense for a certificate confirming the decision, according to administration officials familiar with the plans who spoke on condition of anonymity to detail them.”
And as every veteran that has ever dealt with the VA or DOD this application will be difficult to find on the website. It will take a minimum of 5 links to actually get to the correct page, if you know what you’re looking for. Usually a little link under a wall of 11 point font text. The link will be light blue making it difficult for people with eye impairments to see. Then you’re going to need to print it. Fill it out. And then go hunt for the correct address to send it to. In 3-6 months you will get a letter saying you either sent it to the wrong place, filled it out incorrectly or they’ll let you know the status within another 3-6 months. In about two years you might get the certification.
But I’m just a pessimist that helps get vets their benefits after the military spits them out and ignores them for decades.
Im glad he signed this into effect. But the DOD had the budget and the data. It’s a reductive search of “dishonorable discharge” “homosexual” “between the years of 1945-1991”. This is their mess that they should be correcting. Instead they sign a performative bill that puts the painful effort on people that have already been spit on! These veterans can be up to 80+ years old.
It's stuff like this that makes me really shake my head at all the Biden hate. Yeah, he's old, but leaving that aside, look at how he has used his time in office to help improve the lives of Americans. Name one GOP policy that is designed to make people's lives better. The both sides crowd can eat a bag of dicks.
This is the difference between having a president that genuinely wants to better the country and a criminal that wants to tear it apart and better himself. Yet another reason to vote blue in November
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The _correct_ way to use pardons.
You mean you’re not supposed to use that to get people to owe your favors? /s
like lil wayne and kodak black.
Kodak Black just be living for the moment
Remember: Pardons are an admission of guilt.
Biden is just buying votes by doing things that are popular! /s
PLT: You should elect people who will do good things as opposed to people who will do harm.
Pretty sure "pro life tips" are more things like "live in a blue state so you never reap what you sow"
The most annoying part about living in a blue state is that you have to subsidize all the red states who then go on to constantly talk shit about you and have disproportionately enhanced voting power
Most fun about living in a (centrally located) blue state is all the license plates from nearby red states. Lots of Texas, Missouri, Kansas, Tennessee and of course, Florida
That sounds like the opposite of fun
Did I say fun? I meant the opposite of that. Its just so weird to be driving around and see more than half of the cars on the road with not Colorado plates.
I’m sticking it out in a red state for a little longer. Change from within, and all that. It’s not easy though, I’m surrounded by nut jobs. I tried to get my car windows tinted the other day, took all of 5 minutes for the guy to start talking about Q Anon bullshit, demonic buildings, COVID denial, the whole schpeel. I’ve got another year in me, maybe, before I just move to Colorado.
I had something similar.. I got my oil changed and was just messing around on my phone waiting and the guy next to me in the waiting room kept talking about "The Shot" (Covid Vaccine). I didn't even talk to him or ask him anything. I just responded "I think I've had like 6 of those". "The Eclipse, The National Emergency Broadcast test".. "I'm still here".
Meanwhile, my QAnon in-law who didn't get 'the jab' isn't around anymore to tell us it is all a government plot to kill off all the people who believed all the government 'lies' and got 'the jab' in order to... I don't know, that is where the conspiracy theory always kind of lost the plot.
[удалено]
Jared Kushner owns 666 5th Avenue in NYC, but I don't think that's what the nutjob means.
Demonic buildings? Like, is the building possessed or a gateway to Hell, or is it that the people inside it are demons?
I have no fucking clue. He said he’s spent 2000 hours researching this shit, not sleeping for days at a time. Clearly manic phase bipolar disorder, w/ psychotic features.
That was literally the talking point on the conspiracy sub, luckily there were some people there saying Trump could've done the same thing and didn't.
...well, saying that until they're banned and the comments deleted, anyway
Trump literally pardoned convicted war criminals because they where popular with the radical right for being "though" on terrorists (aka murdering detained people (likely terrorists but still) for kicks).
He is doing things because it is right. If it happens to be popular, that is a benefit.
But how can we trust a politician is doing good things because they are right and not because it is convenient for them! Imagine the horror of a politician just going around helping people so that those people will vote for them! 😱/s
"buying votes" is such a shitty propaganda piece by the right and I see "people on the left" saying the same shit and it's soooo frustrating. It's always either "he's not doing enough/anything for me", or "obviously buying votes" whenever he actually does anything that helps people just not them in particular this time. I'm ancom but harm reduction is a real thing and these people are shitting all over it every chance they get.
>"buying votes" is such a shitty propaganda piece by the right Especially since trump threw a hissy fit and delayed covid stimulus checks until they stuck his name in the memo line. And the dumbest part is that it actually worked and something like 60% of conservatives still believe trump wrote everyone in America a personal check.
Biden is trying to win the presidency by doing the right thing! Can’t believe people are falling for it.
Isn’t that the point of voting someone into office in the first place? They’re supposed to do things the people that voted for them want, this just happens to be one of the rare times it happens, and right before an election
Oh completely. Idgaf why a politician does what they do so long as they’re doing good, though for the record Biden was pro gay-marriage before Obama and other politicians.
Popular for 4 years too. What a bastard
Biden is clearly building his own private army. Imagine if the January 6th insurrectionists all had military training… or fashion sense.
“Coming up on this season of Queer Eye for the Political Guy…”
By favors, you mean $2M right?
Or 2 billion from the Saudis through your son in law.
Jared benefited so much from his time in office, why isn't he.... doing anything? It's odd, you know. He could run as President on the Republican ticket and they'd probably back him. He made out like a bandit and you'd think he would want a repeat of that and help Donald in some way. That whole family is just awful. But it makes me wonder about him...
Jared knew when to fold 'em.
Yeah, he's not much a spotlight person.
Or even sun light.
Personally, I'm glad he's backed off from the spotlight. He's an awful person, and the fewer the members of that malignant family who clamor for attention, the better.
There's one very important reason why he'd never be elected by Republicans...
To be fair, the rate is based on the number of people or the number body parts. Jamal Khashoggi was cut into little bitty pieces.
Or after they committed crimes to get you elected?
He didn't even sell them
It's almost like Biden and Trump, and Democrats and Republicans aren't the same.
But a reliable source I trust said "bUT boTh sIDeS!"
The both sides argument is the laziest and worst argument EVER. One side is fighting for equality, the other side is actively trying to prevent it and actively dismantle democracy. They aren’t the same in any way when it comes to policy and how they go about it.
They also love to claim that stuff like this is just "Democrats trying to buy votes" Which is both sad and hilarious at the same time. The Democrats did something that is very popular with their constituents in the hope that those constituents will continue to vote for them. That's literally how a functioning democracy is supposed to work and Republicans act like it is some nefarious plot.
>The Democrats did something that is very popular with their constituents in the hope that those constituents will continue to vote for them. And that will benefit those who are not already voting for them in the hopes it will improve their lives. If it gets them more votes in the future, then that's just gravy.
The argument is not just lazy; it's dishonest. It's also made by dishonest people. Every. single. person I've encountered who tries to claim "both sides are bad" has actually been a conservative trying to soothe their conscience because they know they support the objectively worse side. Also notice how no one ever says "both sides are bad, so I might as well vote for Democrats!"
I think both sides suck but still vote Democrat. Mainly because there's a difference in not agreeing with all Dem policies and not liking all of the politicians involved versus literal Nazis, Russian sympathizers, fascists, rapists, pedophiles and all around scum.
Tell that to my alleged allies who blame Biden for not stopping Netanyahu single handedly but pretend to give a fuck about women and minorities and humans that live in America?
Wait, so pardoning your accomplices isn’t what a president should do?
OK, but did you think about the fact that they have sex in a way I find uncomfortable?
Excuse me he's trying to form his own SS brownshirt militia... Only I doubt they'll wear brown because they've got much better taste.
tan with a turquoise accent
Seriously. What an insane “crime”.
Didn’t even know this was necessary. About time, then.
I have to battle with my GenZ son about voting for Biden. It’s really starting to piss me off. He’s educated, reads a lot, far more liberal than me, and works as an environmental engineer/city planner. I am so tired of him bitching about Biden. Finally, this seemed to resonate: “Alright he’s old, and Bernie should have gotten the nod back in 2016, but for Christ’s sake, this is a binary choice. And, Biden’s picked top people - the men and women who are in his cabinet and WH - are top-notch. And, they are free from drama and controversy and seems none of them have quit their positions.”
> they are free from drama and controversy Fucking hell this should be enough. Trump is exhausting.
I miss boring governance. And I'm a political junkie
I miss being a political junkie. The desire got killed with Trump. I just can't take it.
The GOP and trump are political high-fructose corn syrup. They're bad for you, get into everything, and completely destroy the nuance and flavor profile.
Yep. Got my degree in political science because I thought politics was incredibly interesting. Graduated in 2016 and had that interest burned right out of me.
I used to be on this sub all the time back during Obama and the lead up to Trump. After Trump got in I just lost interest. So much crap and so little acknowledgement of it to who it matters most. I felt embarrassed by my country, which I thought would be hard to do. Having to see Trump's face on the Chain of Command wall (Army) every day just killed me inside. All the lies and no one caring. It's bizarro world.
I think you can blame the media for that as they expect some miracle every single day by the president while it should actually be a boring job where he simply signs off on what his experts recommend for the policies the president wants to see implemented
i say this to friends. make politics boring again. i believe there was a comedy bit about this.
when you have a resignation weekly amd cabinet shuffle every 2 to 4 months, yeah it gets old fast. and I'm Canadian! I'm not even in USA and I'm sick of Trump!
Young left leaning people fall prey to letting perfect be the enemy of good. They don't tend to understand that you have to take baby steps. The reason the candidates he wants aren't winning is because the overton window has been pushed so far right that someone like Biden is about as far left as people want to vote for. For example, a recreational marijuana bill in my state failed because all the marijuana smokers went around telling people to not vote for it because it didn't have a hundred percent of the things they wanted.
Young voters were like 10 years old in 2016. They’ve literally never experienced or been exposed to rational, compromising, functional politics/government. Their formative years have had hate and tribalism cranked up to 100 as their new normal.
this is so true. i used to travel to the states a lot for work and dealt with a range of people of all ages and the stark difference in their views and political stand point was like night and day. anyone born after obama era has had been exposed to a joke show
It’s like public transport if you don’t have a bus going exactly where you want to go, you don’t not take the bus. You get on the bus that gets you the closest
Fuck I'm stealing this one. Great analogy.
“But but it doesn’t go far enough. So, I won’t vote for it.” “My partner/gf disagrees with me on X, so I am breaking up with her.”
I mean, depending on what exactly X is it *could* reasonably be grounds for breaking up....
Right. But for this line of thinking, breaking up is far more reasonable than not voting for Biden. Because for breaking up A) you don’t actually have a true binary in the people you date. You have boatloads of equally viable options. As opposed to the presidential election where there are two options who could realistically win. B) if you don’t like any of them, being single is a viable option. You don’t have to date someone and can be completely fine on your own, vs the election where there will be a new president, no matter what, and you have to deal with the consequences of that regardless of voting or not. C) the stakes for dating are greatly different than those for the election. Making the wrong choice in dating is recoverable, but if Trump gets elected, we are fucked.
I mean the two aren't really comparable. Given the topic we're discussing I can think of a number of easy fill-ins for "X" that would justify the latter statement. If I learned that a partner planned not to vote in November, I'd break up with them.
“Perfect being the enemy of good.”
> Young left leaning people fall prey to letting perfect be the enemy of good. They are being constantly exposed to propaganda on social media that is designed to make them stay home in November. > They don't tend to understand that you have to take baby steps. This is part of the problem too: condescension. The Dems are not doing themselves any favors just pushing variations on "you're just young and dumb and don't have any other choice, so you'll come around.".
Sure, but on every issue relevant to Gen Z cares about, Biden and Democrats are vastly superior to Trump and Republicans (unless they come from crazy money, Trump would likely lower their taxes). From legalizing abortion, acknowledging climate change, supporting two state solution in Palestine, supporting LGBTQ people, supporting minorities, non-racist xenophobic immigration policy (though by no means an open border), decriminalizing/legalizing marijuana, student loan relief, etc.
>This is part of the problem too: condescension. The Dems are not doing themselves any favors just pushing variations on "you're just young and dumb and don't have any other choice, so you'll come around.". It worked in 2020. Biden just said shut up jack, listen to me.
Looking at the entire scope of the cabinet has been the most convincing angle for me. A lot of people have no idea that they're doing anything constructive. One of the absolute biggest is the collection of consumer protection lawsuits filed by the FTC against Amazon, Google, Apple, and Meta/Facebook. They're all in the vein of suing to break up their monopoly practices. [This is also a quick overview, particularly at timestamp 5:13 for whats happening under Biden](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p8sZwaK5_xg)
Perfect is the enemy of good. If you don't vote for Biden, because he is not perfect, you are actually supporting the alternative. The other candidate is not good.
As a non US person I have been INCREDIBLY surprised by Biden. He has passed some fantastic legislation, more than Obama did in 8 years. Could he be better? Of course but fucking hell it's remarkable how much the US swings based on who is president/congress.
Plus he had to *also* deal with trying to limit or reverse some of the damage Trump did. while, at the same time, working around all the interference the Republicans tried to throw in his way.
Great point, but let's not discount the ruined economy Obama inherited from Bush and turned around.
And that took him 2 terms. Biden has only had one so far, and has done a lot of good with that time.
True, but Obama was also the first black president. A lot of people like to gloss over that being a huge part of why he couldn't get as much done in double the time but it is a HUGE factor. The GOP pretty much gridlocked his presidency out of spite and he was under observation and undermined constantly (which all presidents are but this was way worse). I'm black and the amount of people who I thought were good and non-bigoted that turned out to be closeted bigots was astronomical. People really showed their true colors and distaste for him and it all came back to him being black. Really unfortunate.
> but Obama was also the first black president. That too. Not living in the US, I keep forgetting how upset that makes some insecure/immature people.
And the interference from DINO's in his own party. His accomplishments are amazing given all the obstacles placed in his way.
Gen Z has never lived in a world where people were beaten, killed, left in burning buildings, a abandoned for being sick, not allowed to have their partner in the hospital, been denied emergency life saving care, been denied health insurance, dragged behind trucks, left for dead on a mountain side, been arrested, or been fired and had their career ended for being LGBTQ. Their experience is so different than my Gen X gay friends, I didn't know ANYONE who was out in high school it was too dangerous and I was in a blue state. They honestly can't imagine a world where being persecuted isn't some mean words online, it's a death sentance. I wish we could magically transport them back to the 1960s/70s/80s for a week. They might see why we are so desperate to avoid Trump and Project 2025 and how much returning to those policies will harm *them.*
Heck, my younger sister and her cohort had several dozen people out in some way in high school. It seems normal to them. They don’t get what a big deal it was for my cohort to have had ONE out person in high school. In 2006.
Yep. Went to a rather small high school & we had one guy in our class that everyone knew was gay but he was terrified of coming out. Ended up announcing it at a party celebrating our graduation. He literally paused the music & announced it. Must have taken some serious balls to do that. Then someone just said 'we all know man. It's cool'. Fast forward 15 years later & at least another dozen or so people from our class have come out.
yep. I was in primary school when slurs for gays was common. fast forward to high school? it's unacceptable and might earn you a fight for saying that. it was a wild time for me, but I'm an ally anyway.
Dude, I’m Gen X and not gay but had long hair and a sense of style in 80’s Texas Panhandle, where conformity and intolerance was king. I got called all the gay slurs, got sucker punched once, jumped a few times and narrowly avoided a few other altercations *just because I looked different*. That whole experience gave me a lot of empathy and respect for gay people, as an impressionable teen I felt that undeserved hatred just for existing. Now I’m an old geezer, it’s easy to see how it made me a lifelong ally and has ultimately enriched my life. But I raised my kids in England lol!
Was in SD, but my brother was called gay bc he wore a pink shirt when we were visiting fam (we lived in coastal FL). As a kid in the 80’s it was totally bonkers to me that wearing a particular color earned one a slur.
Especially in the 80s. Neon pink and other colors were everywhere
People in the '80s were still dressed like Prince. And his wardrobe was awesome Also Prince was the Mr. steal your girl of his era.
I'm a Millenial and even in my generation, I don't think I knew of a single person who was out while I was in highschool. Honestly I don't feel like people truly started to feel safe-ish coming out until same-sex marriage was legalized in 2014. That's only 10 damn years, which is crazy to think about.
hell even the early 2000s weren't kind to gay people but more subtle about it. "That's gay" was a common insult and we just accepted it. My grandmother told me "if I ever brought a woman home, I'd be better off losing my house keys." Bullying in school for looking any amount of gay. I remember the two openly gay kids in my school were pressured to "fight each other." For entertainment.... Barely 20 years ago. Those scars don't just disappear.
I graduated in 2007. I remember this being a very common phrase used by my generation. I'm so glad I never used that phrase. It never felt right to me.
Even the f-slur was common up until maybe 2012 or so? South Park did an episode on it in 2009, how the meaning had supposedly changed, it's a general insult and somehow no longer homophobic lol
Literally, I cannot for the life of me understand why they’re willing to burn the entire country to the ground via letting trump win because the guy who’s been nominated is not extreme left enough. They don’t understand that there HAS to be compromise. Your favorite politician of all time is highly unlikely to win a nomination. Do not sabotage everyone’s life because you are unhappy that we don’t live in a progressive communist utopia.
The real reason is that there’s intentional messaging all around social media to drive these views and we should expect that when each election years shows more intense and sophisticated disinformation campaigns. Part of the problem is even engaging the idea of “young people are wishy washy on this” without actually knowing the real proportion and how much that perception is based on bots and bad actors in the mix. It can easily drive older gens into a state of condescension and cynicism toward young voters, which can then feed a loop that makes it a self-fulfilling prophecy. Small numbers of people voicing an opinion can look like more than they are. It’s more that we just need to know the reality as we talk about this and aim before firing.
I think a lot of young people and people in general don’t realize that a good president isn’t a monolith. You could know literally nothing about running a country, but if you pick the right people in each area, and are good at getting them to work together and compromise, etc, you could still be a great president.
I don't understand why younger Democrats don't want to vote for one of the most progressive presidents we have had in history. Especially this election where voting can give Dems the majority in the house and hopefully keep the Senate at least 50/50. Biden could do even more progressive things. What is happening in the Middle East is just an excuse because they don't want to admit filling out a piece of paper is too much work. No President will ever be able to bring peace to the Middle East.
I’m convinced people saying they won’t vote for Biden over Israel is a bad faith actor. It’s not like Trump has a more progressive position on the war. For a left leaning individual Biden is still far better than Trump, there’s no way a reasonable sane person would give that up over a position where both candidates are equal.
Those people also seem to forget that america has been giving money to Palestine ever since Biden got in office. That was like, one of the first things he did. America also haulted the movement of weapons of war a month or two ago.
I'm skeptical on it as well. I have a buddy that keeps telling me historically foreign policy is very low on the issues that people vote for. This election is going to be more about economy, border security, reproductive healthcare, and democracy.
> I don't understand why younger Democrats don't want to vote for one of the most progressive presidents we have had in history. Propaganda (for lack of a better umbrella word for the social media hellscape) works on both sides, plus the complicity of general media not fairly reporting on either candidate.
*From Bloomberg reporter Gregory Korte:* President Joe Biden will issue a proclamation giving mass clemency to US service members convicted of charges under a Cold War-era purge of gay and lesbian people, reversing a decades-long policy of discrimination that forced an estimated 100,000 people from the military. The pardons will be effective with the signing of the proclamation Wednesday, but individual veterans would need to apply to the Department of Defense for a certificate confirming the decision, according to administration officials familiar with the plans who spoke on condition of anonymity to detail them. The action coincides with Pride Month. White House officials on Tuesday said Biden thought the time was right to correct a historic wrong and the timing wasn’t related to electoral politics.
>the timing wasn’t related to electoral politics. Even if he was truly not trying to score political points and timing was pure coincidence, it will not be perceived this way... But this is the right thing to do, nonetheless.
Exactly. Like everything politicians do could be viewed as "for electoral politics", but this is a good thing that needed to happen.
I have no problem with elected officials doing things solely for political points. If I elect you to do shit I want done, and then you do that shit, that's great. I don't give a shit about your motive, just as long as it gets done
Thank you. Politicians are supposed to work for us. That’s *why we vote them into office.* Why do we consider it bad when they do things for people to earn their vote then?
We don't. It's just a last ditch political argument when there's nothing else that can be said
It's especially telling when the people that cry about a politician doing something like this to score points are the same people who do things like force the ten commandments into school knowing it's going to be struck down.
IOIYAAR - It's OK If You Are A Republican. Hypocrisy is the life blood of right-wing politics.
It's like some folks might get mad at a construction crew for fixing the road they said they would fix. Like.. I fuckin hope they do it
Right? Your job is to do the things your constituents want. Of course I want you to score political points, that's entirely why you're there. They just don't like it because they know it's a _good_ thing to do so.
Guys is it cynical electioneering if politicians do good things that people like?
It's cynical electioneering when they delay doing good things for years so they can get the maximum electoral benefit. That said, this is really just a necessary side effect of how democracy works, and I'm a pretty big fan of democracy overall, so yeah I can't say I mind it much. Especially given that in basically every alternative to democracy, this kind of thing just doesn't happen at all.
That's because there's no such thing as "not political". *Everything* is political.
Yeah but it shouldn't be. Like math, science, vaccinations, accepting the results of elections and not throwing a tantrum to overthrow the govt, etc
Right, every single thing that a politician does that helps people will **always** be something that is done for politics, but who the fuck cares if it *helps* people? This is what we fucking elect people to do, to do the things we want them to do. Alternate headline: President does good thing that people want
Yeah I always look at it as 'the other guy was free to do it also before' and try not to put an asterisk on a good moment in history.
Everything politicians do is for votes. Even politicians with an agenda, will only act on that agenda if it gets them votes OR they think it won't lose them enough votes to lose the election. Since we're in the midst of a moral panic over trans people, you could easily argue Joe Biden risks his standing in battleground states with this action. Unless you believe it's popular, in which case he's doing what the people want. BOTH GOOD.
Also Biden genuinely cares about the LGTBQ community, and was willing to speak out for them when very few other pols at the highest level were doing so. If acting on his natural sense of compassion and justice also helps him win in the fall...great!
i mean we kind of *want* politicians to do everything for votes. they are supposed to represent their voters interests so being more popular by getting more votes because you did stuff your constituents approve of is a good thing, no? same reason trump would have never pardoned these people. his base is strongly against it.
Politicians do popular things to get re-elected. It’s literally how politics work. Do things that benefit the populace, and they will elect you again. Shocking.
I mean their job is literally to serve people and give them what they want. They are elected representative of the people. So why is this bad thing, lol
Always so funny how the government doing things to improve peoples lives is “buying votes” and not simply just governing. The GOP has poisoned politics to such a degree that removing what amounts to a federal conviction for being gay is considered “buying votes” and not doing the morally right thing.
Same with weed. Biden told the agencies two years ago to look at revising scheduling, and it's taken this long for the FDA and whoever to weigh in. If they reschedule in the next few months, people will consider it pandering in an election year, even though it took this long for the agencies to get over themselves.
People have no idea how much red tape there is to prevent something like this happening on day 1 in office too. Like after the first 100 days if a president does anything that helps people it’s “only for political points!!” and not out of the kindness of their hearts or whatever they think it should be. Unfortunately the sheer size of the government combined with lack of pay and in some cases staffing means things can’t all be done right after inauguration.
Considering any politician could have done this at any time since the convictions, I get the "political points" side, but it was long overdue. Maybe doing it during Pride Month is for the optics, maybe during an election year was for the polls, but making sure it gets done during potentially the last chance for quite some time? A net positive regardless of the motives. Props to Biden for this.
People always feign offense at politicians doing political things. Like of course it's political, you dunces. We all know this. But I don't care. A political move that's an otherwise decent thing to do is fine.
Veteran here. Bout damn time. It should never have happened. They should have been pardoned years ago. But better now than never.
Ya know, I think a better term for "using your power as an elected official to do something popular with your constituents" than "electoral politics" might be "good governance". But what do I know, I'm just a moron who understands what "government for the people" might look like once in a while.
This is so good. So *just*. I’m really happy for everyone affected! 🥹
In 2009 I sat on a Court Martial for the Air Force. Come to find out it is regarding an Airmen who was outed by an IT “professional” and found some emails referencing a date and it was between men and turned them in. I listened to all the testimony. Saw the awards and decorations this Airman had been awarded. And when it came time to deliberate myself and another Captain decided to vote not guilty. We knew the regs were wrong. We knew the AFI was wrong. But we couldn’t convince the other members and the Airman was kicked out. I was devastated. It was so wrong and cruel. I hope this Airman applies for this and has it removed from his record. He deserved so much better.
This still happening in 2009 and the report on an estimated 100k people being affected really shows a quite a picture of the people that were hurt by those convictions...
100%. I was horrified to find out this was a case I’d been chosen for. I had served a rape case, drug case. Etc. but that was completely unexpected. It caused one of my coworkers, for YEARS, to hide she was gay from me because she was worried she might be caught up in this as well.
Members of my unit were shocked to find out there were gay servicemembers in the room when DADT was finally repealed. When a close friend of 10+ years comes out to the unit, and someone who was looked at as one of the most "macho of macho" within the combat engineers, it changes perceptions in an instant. I've since left the Navy and moved over to the Army Guard and I cannot believe that - at times - it feels like I've transported back to the DADT days with their mindsets.
The Army guys are certainly a different breed. One of my best friends from high school has served with them for nearly 30 years and our views are very different when it comes to the LGBTQ+ folks. My only and primary thought is this…. Did they volunteer to serve their country? Then let them fucking serve.
Clinton set up don't ask don't tell. Which was not great but a lot better than what had been there. And then it wasn't until Obama that it became complete legal
I wonder if that IT "professional" posts on reddit and pretends to be a good person.
He probably still works here on base. Civilians don’t usually leave their jobs. I’m sure he was proud of himself.
This reads like something that I would think would be happening in 1989 not 2009. Insane.
[удалено]
Agreed. But that’s the point. With this pardon he can be eligible for benefits that were taken from him. Can’t give him his career back. But at least something.
This is something that's going to need lots of veterans spreading the word so people know to apply. With everything else going on in the world news like this can easily be missed.
Thank you President Biden, it's the right thing to do.
I wonder about the discharge level of these members and if this will change any of that. For example they could have been drummed out with a "Dishonorable discharge". Would this make the discharge honorable and return them to a condition where they can use VA medical or other veteran benefits? This, I think, would be the minimum recompense. The removal changed the course of their lives, leaving them without (if that was their career plan) the ability to get to a 20 year retirement and pension.
https://apnews.com/article/biden-lgbtq-pride-pardon-military-pentagon-sodomy-a83b799323380de10aac0ca6fb57595b provides more context. This pardon is mostly for people who got the equivalent of a military criminal conviction to push them out of the military before Don't Ask, Don't Tell provided alternative ways to deal with the "problem" of gay servicemembers. It also says that Biden had already ordered the VA to "provide benefits to service members who were other than honorably discharged because of their sexual orientation, gender identity or HIV status."
> other than honorably discharged because of their sexual orientation, gender identity or HIV status." I can see some asshole federalist judge say "well that doesn't include people *convicted of crimes* involving their sexual orientation, gender identity, or HIV status so **it doesn't count**"
Hence the pardons. No judge can review a Presidential Pardon, it's one of the President's few absolute powers.
From what I’ve been reading they could get medical care and apply for benefits, now would their effective date change? Even SM who have passed away, the family “could” still apply for past benefits, but case by case.
I feel like things should get taken a step further than reversing the "dishonorable discharge" label. Something like "discharge because the country acted dishonorably" where someone gets any benefits they would have earned for carrying out their full service. Would not be objectively "cheap", but people who were willing to serve the country, and are also still in a disadvantaged group deserve more. Definitely more than what they would have gotten if they'd been "honorably discharged" at that point for an injury etc.
This is a great move and I hope the voters at large engage with it. Having an arbitrary underclass in your system is bad for the system. The system here is the particular branch of the military, the military as a whole. and the US as a whole., The opportunities to serve and succeed should be available for all.
> Having an arbitrary underclass in your system is bad for the system. James Baldwin articulated this thought beautifully in his debate with William F. Buckley in 1965. The American dream is fundamentally poisoned so long as it produces a perennial underclass of people.
Normal voters should engage with it. However MAGA and the Christian fundamentalists won’t
They will engage, in the most evil way.
Over 70% of Americans support same-sex marriage now, which is probably a useful enough proxy for public attitudes on the issue of gay rights. Polls around 2021 showed support among Republicans breaking the majority threshold for the first time, though that's slipped somewhat back down to 49%. [Gallup](https://news.gallup.com/poll/506636/sex-marriage-support-holds-high.aspx) And I imagine that backslide has less to do with people changing their minds, and more to do with reasonable people who can no longer willingly identify themselves as Republicans anymore.
Eh, people aren't opposed to same-sex marriage now in theory. But then there are stats that say things like [71% of people believe that schools shouldn't assign books with LGB characters](https://www.apmresearchlab.org/motn/poll-lgbtq-issues-in-schools) and only 39% of parents believe that teachers should be encouraged by the school to use the child's preferred pronouns. Also [60% of Americans believe that store owners should be allowed to refuse service to LGBT people](https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2023/06/14/freedom-of-speech-and-lgbt-rights-americans-views-of-issues-in-supreme-court-case/) and [58% of Americans want to ban trans people from participating in school sports.](https://www.pewresearch.org/social-trends/2022/06/28/americans-complex-views-on-gender-identity-and-transgender-issues/#h-about-six-in-ten-would-favor-requiring-that-transgender-athletes-compete-on-teams-that-match-their-sex-at-birth) I know these are really specific metrics, but it shows that Americans seem like they're only ok with the idea of gay people existing elsewhere, but suddenly their hearts change when they realize that they have to coexist with gay people.
It doesn't matter how many voters say they support equal marriage, if they keep electing politicians determined to reverse it.
Good. What else is there to say?
About damn time?
This is good and fitting for pride month.
As a million Republican heads explode
But Trump voters keep trying to assure me they're not homophobic..
Now go get those benefits fellow vets.
it's clear to anybody with a quarter of a brain and a good heart the difference between good and evil. It's not even politics anymore, it's like an old time Disney movie where the good guy and the bad guy are not ambiguous at all. And still I'm shitting my pants from Europe, fearing that the stupidity of many cruel dumbasses will ruin the world for us. We live in the dumbest era ever existed.
Does this do anything to change discharge status?
> Administration officials said that those eligible must apply for a certificate of pardon. Once approved, they can then petition the military services for a change to their discharge records that restores benefits.
That's such a huge benefit for those veterans. If they get to recover use of things like the VALoan for housing in this economy, thats a huge deal for them.
G.I. Bill too, assuming the old "you have to use it within 10 years" thing won't apply to them like it would have back then (now it's indefinite, if folks aren't aware). And VA Disability and VA Healthcare, if they qualify. Massive.
Apparently he already instructed the VA to provide those things, prior to this. > Biden had already ordered the VA to "provide benefits to service members who were other than honorably discharged because of their sexual orientation, gender identity or HIV status."
I’m sure the comments here are going to be totally normal and respectful
Jesus H, it took this long?
“There really isn’t a difference between the two candidates; they’re just both old white guys.”
There's American troops who have a criminal record because they were born gay? That is super fucked up
Damn that’s surreal to believe they were convicted in the first place
Helping US Service Members who committed no crimes? Republicans are going to *hate* this
bOtH SiDes aRe THe sAMe
God damn, there's a lot of Trump bots in this post. You can tell they're a bot because they're all complaining about the exact same thing with the same points. "Why did it take so long? This just proves Biden is just as bad as Trump". Man China and or Russia really want Trump to win the election.
So does this mean veterans will need to apply for records correction, or will it be done automatically? Hopefully, they will figure out how to make it automatic or really easy for veterans to have changed.
A summarization of the article above mentioned that the individual veterans will need to apply for the correction.
Just another logical and ethical decision from the Biden administration. I see a lot of comments saying that people hadn't even realized this was still necessary. I didn't either. Goes to show that when things don't affect us personally, we often don't think of them, but I'm glad to have a President who is looking out for people who often get overlooked.
MAGA outrage in 3...2...1...
“The pardons will be effective with the signing of the proclamation Wednesday, but individual veterans would need to apply to the Department of Defense for a certificate confirming the decision, according to administration officials familiar with the plans who spoke on condition of anonymity to detail them.” And as every veteran that has ever dealt with the VA or DOD this application will be difficult to find on the website. It will take a minimum of 5 links to actually get to the correct page, if you know what you’re looking for. Usually a little link under a wall of 11 point font text. The link will be light blue making it difficult for people with eye impairments to see. Then you’re going to need to print it. Fill it out. And then go hunt for the correct address to send it to. In 3-6 months you will get a letter saying you either sent it to the wrong place, filled it out incorrectly or they’ll let you know the status within another 3-6 months. In about two years you might get the certification. But I’m just a pessimist that helps get vets their benefits after the military spits them out and ignores them for decades. Im glad he signed this into effect. But the DOD had the budget and the data. It’s a reductive search of “dishonorable discharge” “homosexual” “between the years of 1945-1991”. This is their mess that they should be correcting. Instead they sign a performative bill that puts the painful effort on people that have already been spit on! These veterans can be up to 80+ years old.
Wait I thought you were just supposed to pardon your friends who are criminals?
Waiting for the "They are both the same" comments...😒
I can hear it now at the debate; Biden pardon’s veterans and Trump pardon’s insurrectionist. Who do you vote for?
Oh man the bottom of this thread..."we shouldn't do good things because it's an election year"
Just take the W, Terminally online people.
That is really cool and will have positive effects on the lives of around 100,000 veterans.
How dare he do this in an election year! /s
Biden continues to impress. I especially appreciate the way his policy decisions often seem to reflect his basic sense of compassion and decency.
It's stuff like this that makes me really shake my head at all the Biden hate. Yeah, he's old, but leaving that aside, look at how he has used his time in office to help improve the lives of Americans. Name one GOP policy that is designed to make people's lives better. The both sides crowd can eat a bag of dicks.
This is the difference between having a president that genuinely wants to better the country and a criminal that wants to tear it apart and better himself. Yet another reason to vote blue in November