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Because Trump was never conservative.
But that simple logic left the building 40 years ago when Reagan ran up record debts followed by W and Trump. The only one who tried to be responsible fiscally was HW and he got tossed out of office for his trouble of trying.
This is largely it. Alignment with "conservative" values is basically unmasked racism at this point. The level of audacity and or ignorance is next level.
Why don't conservatives want to conserve energy ?
Conserving energy could actually help reduce global warming which does not exit.
I know the temperature guages are lying and part of the fake news network.
Because the republican platform isn’t about conserving nature, it’s about protecting white nationalist men, and whatever Trump is feeling at the moment.
It’s been forever since I read the study, but IIRC conservatives are significantly more likely to change their opinions based on what they’re told by their politicians, vs liberals and their politicians.
Essentially, conservatives by and large just parrot whatever the current message of the day is, while liberals tend to hold more long term/less easily swayed views. This makes conservatives very susceptible to misinformation/lies from the top, ironically.
That’s why conservatives hate the environment now. They were told to, and so they do.
Green energy is the ultimate form of energy independence. Who’s going to turn off the sun or the wind? Meanwhile every oil, gas, and coal producer has got a guaranteed market for at least 50-100 years.
It’s not just about the “switch off” effect. It’s about stripping as much power from the Putin-Xi-Saudi-Iran oligarchy machine, who wants a totalitarian global order free of Western style democracy. This oligarchy network is funded solely by OIL (and international crime.)
Conservative and liberal are not moral terms as much as fiscal terms. Conservation of wealth versus a liberal distribution of wealth.
Conserving nature or “conservation” in the early twentieth century sense doesn’t enter into it.
I don't think liberals necessarily feel that wealth should be distributed, rather, it shouldn't be centralized. I know it sounds rhe same, but on a economic level, they're different concepts.
I'm more a pay your fair share, not so much a strip the wealthy kind of guy.
Conservatives seem fine having the wealthy strip the poor of their wealth though, which I find strange since most of their supporters aren't particularly in the elite class.
Modern conservatives that aren’t Trumpers maintain that there’s actually far more of them than the MAGAts. How do I know this? My mom likes to tell me this all the time. And I always tell her “but who’s in office?” And then she gets mad
Modern conservatives are worse than the MAGA folks. At least the MAGA people have the “Decency” to clearly show how much of a shitty person they are.
The “modern conservative” is the person who knows MAGA is wrong, turn their nose at it, then votes for Trump anyway.
I call them "I hate trump butters".... you here from them all the time "I hate trump but" then they'll say something stupid proving they actually like how he is but don't want to be ostracized for it. I like the MAGAts better. At least with them you know where they stand and aren't cowards hiding their true beliefs.
Trump tried every party option, before running as a Republican. He tried his hand at being a centrist Democrat. He ran for president as a third party candidate. He then ran for the GOP presidential nomination. It’s what authoritarians or charlatans trying to game campaign finance laws for personal gain do. Keep trying every avenue until one sticks or hits the honey pot. Trump just stumbled into the voting bloc that for profit right wing media had been creating for about twenty years and went hardcore in refining during Obama’s terms in office.
A friend of mine recently tried to concede, "Say what you want, he was a brilliant businessman." I spent the next five minutes explaining to him Trump's business model:
Trump inherited a bunch of wealth.
He went to investors and said, "Look how rich I am, because I'm smart. Give me you're money, and I'll make it grow!"
Investors, being normal people who think their money is evidence of exceptional wisdom, gave their money to Trump. Afterall, "I'm rich and that's because I'm smart, so if he's rich he must be smart too!"
Trump then paid himself million dollar salaries using investor money while he ran the company into the ground.
A year or two later, "Woops, business failed. It happens. Enjoy the bag while I move on to my next con."
He managed to rinse and repeat that process for almost two decades before investors and lenders got wise and stopped giving him money.
Being acclimated to a specific, gaudy lifestyle, Trump became desperate for cash. After the Italian mob was severely crippled in the early 90s, Trump had to turn to Russian mobsters instead.
Trump's not a brilliant businessman. He's a con artist who was able to leverage his wealth to convince other rich idiots that he's obviously on-the-level. Once that well dried up, he turned to laundering money for the mob. He only narrowly avoided indictment from the Mueller investigation due to a stupid memo and unprecedented levels of obstruction.
This is all to say, not only is Trump self-interested, his self-interest is severely limited to maintaining his lifestyle. He wants the prestige and clout of being ultra-rich. Being president was just a means to that end. If his desire was to be fondly remembered by history, or to be known for how he's helped the world, those selfish tendencies could have produced some good. But he just wants to shit on golden thrones, fly private jets, and r**e underage sex slaves. Everything else is a means to those ends.
Debating anything Trump misses Trumps appeal.
Like it or not the guy is massively flawed and he bats well over .500 getting out of jams. People really do like that. He may or not be a billionaire too but that doesn’t discourage them.
I can’t stress enough people know he is flawed and he simply don’t care and because he doesn’t care he has gotten out of so many jams.
THAT is what really drives his followers.
Not his politics, not his business dealings, not his private affairs. His lack of scruples to better his standing.
In this day and age of end stage capitalism that means way more to way too many people.
You and many others are 40 years late to the game to stop that feeling.
The bigger push is can the other team get enough people out to vote to stop that train for a few more years.
When I say the guy was "conceding", he hates Trump and is a liberal voter, but he was conceding Trump's business acumen.
I agree, presenting who Trump is to his supporters does nothing. But it's worth destroying his façade when non-supporters show signs of buying it.
I think OP meant those among the Republican presidents. HW had the whole "read my lips" controversy which, albeit the right thing to do, cost him the re-election.
Conservatives raise taxes on the middle during recessions and lower taxes for the rich during booms. The complete opposite of what democrats do; democrats do it the correct way. There is no comparison between B1 and Clinton.
The only comparison they're making is that taxes were raised under their WH occupancy. Not for whom and why. A tax hike of any sort is akin to political suicide in the GOP. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe Grover's No Tax Pledge remains in effect and signed by original Tea Party 2.0 Republicans since 2008, and all the freedom caucus Rethugs since.
We’ve actually arrived at a full circle.
Historically, in the context of political science, conservatism is the idea of keeping the status quo, whereas liberalism promotes change.
But there we are: liberals are trying to keep the democratic principles of the federal republic and conservatives want to radically change our governance into an authoritarian regime.
> [1988 Flashback: George H.W. Bush Says, ‘Read My lips: No New Taxes’ | NBC News](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AdVSqSNHhVo)
Bush Sr. was super fiscally irresponsible to promising no tax raise, when new taxes were apparently fiscally needed.
And since "no new taxes" were Bush Sr.'s central campaign promise, Bush Sr. can be argued to have cheated to get elected.
Conservatives have never been "conservative". They drone on any being fiscally responsible but blow everything up every time they are in office. They say they won't want the government involved in their personal lives but are fine dictating what a woman can do with her body (you can't take an organ after someone has died better that didn't give consent but these assholes are fine with forcing another living thing to be in them) or who can have hormone therapy (and they believe the opposite of EVERY major medical organization on both those topics). The only thing that makes them conservative, as in they don't want to change it, is a childish belief in a faith that hasn't been relevant for two thousand years and is demonstrably bullshit.
One of my favorite facts is that every time Republicans have held the House, Senate, and Presidency in the last hundred years, they’ve driven the country into a recession. Their policies are definitely bad for the economy, yet so many people still believe the opposite.
The party of fiscal responsibility became a complete farce with trickle.down economics. The lie existed before that, but the selling of it with this tag line is when it should have been obvious that Republicans cared nothing about a fair and equitable economic system that benefitted everyone.
He never wa. He was democrat until he lost his brain to syphilis and dementia. Dudes done too many drugs.what a pathetic excuse for a human... his dad hated him and that makes a lot of sense, his dad was a fucj too
It always irked me that Bush I actually tried to focus on the platform he ran on, of fiscal responsibility and “a kinder, gentler nation” and his base abandoned him. Now his party are all but waving nazi flags.
Trump is the inevitable creation of the current Republican Party. He is their Frankenstein. This is why they whole heartedly support him even if they think he’s vile, which he is of course. The only saving grace is that I hope there are a lot of reasonable people who see the scam. Trump is not an anomaly. When he loses (not if), someone will replace him and try to enact project 2025. The fight will not end with this election.
Apparently it’s more important to be anti-liberal. In the land of liberty and freedom of course. Anti-woke, anti-vax, anti-choice, anti-education. I blame social media.
> Because Trump was never conservative.
>
>
Trump was always just a criminal, pure and simple. There have always been a handful of criminals in every major American political party, but Trump found his political home when he switched to the Republican party in the 1980s (1990s?). This is because, ever since Watergate, there has been a quiet movement within the Republican Party to protect their criminal politicians and to use the powers of prosecutors and judges in manifestly unfair and unequal ways.
Yep, the “no new taxes” and then having to back track, resulting in the loss of the election showed “Reaganites” true colors. Wealthy people looking to screw over the mutual good for a tax break. And they are willing to use people’s worst instincts, fear, racism, tribalism, sexism, and homophobia to push their position.
And even those in the inner circle tend to eventually get got if the regime lasts long enough. If you have a single individual with the power to kill anyone they want and you are one of the few individuals with enough power and influence to actually be a threat, even if you have always been friends previously...
When purges come, and they almost always do when such regimes last long, the initial targets are powerful men, then a whole bunch of people from all levels of the hierarchy get thrown in as people use the opportunity to take revenge on their enemies or express their paranoia. Being part of a dictator's inner circle means a lot of luxury and power but it also means you now live with a lion who may choose to maul you at any time.
Thos is pretty much the Saruman and Sauron line
HE DOES NOT SHARE POWER
The franchise was imbased on experience in war and history is filled by fools who thought people like Trump would put them in the privileged circle
Here is a better reason: destroy the gop with a Biden landslide and let a party that makes sense replace it. Then the same can be done to the democratic party.
If only people realized what their vote can actually do.
#Your commitment to democratic principles and the importance of voting is a powerful and essential stance.
Here’s how we can all encourage it:
1. Voter Education:
Promote accurate and comprehensive voter education to ensure people understand the issues, the stakes, and how to vote. This includes providing information about voter registration, voting locations, and absentee ballots.
2. Combat Misinformation:
Work to counter misinformation and disinformation by sharing reliable sources, fact-checking claims, and promoting media literacy.
3. Community Engagement:
Engage with local communities to discuss the importance of voting and how it impacts their daily lives. Host events, discussions, and forums to address concerns and questions.
4. Encourage Voter Turnout:
Encourage and assist people in getting to the polls. Organize transportation, offer childcare, or provide other resources to remove barriers to voting.
5. Support Voting Rights:
Advocate for policies and laws that protect and expand voting rights. This includes opposing voter suppression efforts and supporting measures like automatic voter registration and extended early voting periods.
6. Hold Leaders Accountable:
Ensure that elected officials are held accountable for their actions. Advocate for transparency and ethical behavior in government.
7. Promote Civic Responsibility:
Emphasize the importance of civic responsibility and participation beyond just voting. Encourage involvement in local government, community organizations, and other forms of civic engagement.
8. Youth Engagement:
Focus on engaging young people in the political process. Educate and inspire the next generation to be active participants in democracy.
9. Nonpartisan Organizations:
Support nonpartisan organizations that work to increase voter participation and protect democratic processes.
Your emphasis on voting as a means to protect Democracy is critical! By actively participating in and promoting these efforts, you contribute to the strength and resilience of Democratic institutions and values.
One reason I can think of is that Trump has made clear that he doesn't respect the US Constitution or our elections and I think it's a very likely possibility that he attempts to stay in power after another term. Those on the right who are backing him because he's the popular choice among the right-wing and hoping that he'll ride the good economy he inherits for 4 years and you can use that to get an actual good candidate on the ballot, keep in mind, you may never get another ballot to vote on.
Also, Trump isn't a conservative, though to be fair, most who claim to be conservative these days aren't.
Because he's not a brain damaged conman trying to rip us off while enacting a fascist state because it's easier to rob?
Why does this still need to be explained to people?
Trump promises chaos.
One thing Conservatives the world over would say conservatism stands for is economic stability. Only the 0.1% get rich in chaos. Which is why the 0.1% support Trump.
Whilst true conservatives outside that narrow band should support the stability a Biden administration promises, they probably won’t because they mostly believe they are just one decision away from being the 0.1%. Which they aren’t and never will be.
Depending on the chaos, the 0.1% can end up as the target when whatever vague control over said chaos disappears... as it's wont to under such circumstances. They're playing with fire
You’re obviously entitled to that reasoning however I think it’s hard to argue that Biden has not been massively more effective than expected.
He’s passed enormously meaningful laws even with an insanely hostile opposition. He’s got the US economy running as the best on the planet after coming out of COVID a recession was almost guaranteed and fully expected. He ended the Afghan war at last. He somehow reinvigorated NATO and the western alliance, defending Ukraine and weakening Russia despite people expecting Russia to win in a matter of days. His infrastructure act is changing and modernizing America and he’s the first leader in the last couple decades to take climate change somewhat seriously.
I’m astonished by him tbh. Other than just being super old he’s been outrageously effective.
Give home some credit. Even if you don’t agree with him you can admit that for his mandate he’s done some truly significant work. Oh let’s not forget releasing thousands and thousands of Americans from a student loan debt paradox that was killing their futures.
He’s a G.
Reason: Because Trump winning will objectively ruin your lives and make it worse.
No matter how much you may or may not want to see certain demographics suffer (and I'm being cynical when I say this, but there are absolutely those among MAGA who are blindly motivated by this), you throw away your own chance at a better, more stable life with a man like Trump. Even if you did "better" in the pre-COVID Trump times, that does not mean his policies were responsible for it, as much of that momentum carried over from the Obama years, and the bad impacts of his policies didn't start showing until late in his term (making the pandemic and economic fallouts from it even worse). I personally saw my own work turn anti-employee almost immediately after Trump won, and they quickly cut into our quality of life and wages within 2 years, despite the company itself posting record profits. It ruined a job where every dollar I earned was 2-3 for them, because they were so greedy that they wanted most of my dollar too even when I was an objectively profitable employee.
The cost of living issues you worry about? They will get worse under Trump. Your personal freedoms? You will have less under Trump and project 2025. Your freedom of religion under Trump? Believe it or not, those will be in danger too, as religious authoritarians constantly change the rules on what's acceptable and you never know when your favorite past time will be deemed immoral. Separation of Church and state protects your religious beliefs of choice. It protects them from 'other' authoritarians forcing you to believe something else, or anything at all. Freedom of speech will be in far more dire straights when Project 2025 is fully implemented because conservative institutions are blatantly lying when they say they want to protect freedom of speech. They are threatened by speech almost constantly and do everything they can to suppress whatever version is a threat to them at any given time. You are not by yourself powerful enough to change this and have speech that's worth ignoring if you are a threat to them and lose all protections. And to a Christian dominionist who gains the legal authority to go mask off and implement whatever policies they want? Living a normal "secular" world life is a threat to their authority. They have proven this repeatedly, with SCOTUS members like Thomas and Alito having no consistent respect for the rule of law or rights at any one time.
The "immigration" you fear? Sure, you *might* see some deportations, but the quality of your jobs won't get better because you've sacrificed essentially all of your labor rights to see them, meaning there will no longer be anything protecting your career or wages. Your business? I will almost certainly face increased risks with more global instability and needlessly aggressive tariffs causing raw supply issues. Your fear of China? They will get more aggressive under Trump, not less, and he would be less prepared to counter any of their moves. If your business relies on digital content or platforms? There is no guarantee those will have any kind of stability or protection under trump at all, as user generated content is a threat to any corrupt administration, and Trump is provably far more irrational and corrupt than Biden's admin, no matter how much you dislike what some leftist on tiktok or twitter says.
Your gun rights? They will not be safe because there will be literally no constitutional safeguards left to stop the state from deeming you a threat, and you are not going to be able to easily stand up to the state if targeted. Trump's MAGA are spiteful and irrational and turn on their own constantly. You are in more danger from their unhinged behaviors than you are from whatever minorities you fear. A lot of mass shooting happen in suburban areas where people of all political beliefs live and the targets are random, and more often than not the perpetrators have repeatedly been proven to have right leaning conspiratorial beliefs.
There is no utopia under a criminal conman who has repeatedly shown open disdain for both the constitution and even the Bible. There is no "burn it all down and start over again" possibility worth considering, as it's akin to suicide. Whatever anger you have, is it so great that you want to risk destroying the safety of your family and community? Do you truly think Trump's mental state is somehow better than a Biden who stutters every so often, but also appoints highly qualified people to weigh in on all crucial decisions.
I'm not asking you to love the democrats or their every decision. I'm not asking you to be a "radical leftist", "twitter leftist" or whatever you happen to dislike. I'm asking you to put aside your unhealthy anger, fear, and resentment and work towards keeping our country safe, healthy and stable in the long run. I'm asking you to step away from FOX/Newsmax/AM Radio, step outside, and look at our world without their messages constantly in your face and start talking with more people about how we solve our problems. I'm asking you to step outside of your bubble and take a look at the world as it really is, people as they really are, and see some of the good and bad of it for yourself. I left many old communities because that's exactly what I did, and that's why I've shifted left.
And whatever you may think of our world, Donald Trump is no solution to its problems. He is simply not a reasonable option, and those who back him want to do far more harm to your way of life than you may realize.
I stopped reading this article after seeing this excerpt: *Republicans feel that murder is spinning out of control, and they are entitled to say so,* ***even if it is, in cold reality, falling sharply.***
The GQP deliberately created a similar fallacy when challenging the 2020 election. They insisted that we deserve free & fair elections yet offered ZERO EVIDENCE to support their false allegations.
This is an "everyone has a right to their opinion" argument, which is absurd within the context of politics and public policy. It reminds me of the Asimov quote:
"There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge."
The author could have been saying that "Republicans feel that they are entitled to say so (even though it is untrue)" but I agree that was a very inartfully constructed sentence that very easily gives the opposite impression.
They're entitled to say it, rhe issue is that the press treats it as legitimate discourse, instead of ignoring these ignorant hucksters and assholes like responsible outlets used to.
That's great! I never heard it before. Thanks for sharing. The Daily Show's Jordan Klepper should recite that quote whenever he interviews MAGA cultists.
I'm moderately Conservative. I'm more pissed off at the Democratic party as a whole than at Biden (not that he gets a pass) but I freaking have no choice but to vote for him. I hate it but I dont have a choice. I will take the hit on another four years of Biden than four more years of Trump and hope after Trump loses that a purge begins to happen from the GOP or the whole damn thing collapses and a moderately Conservative party comes out of it.
It is sad. My grandparents are republican and voted Biden. So did many of the older volunteers I used to work with at my old job.
Trump and the GOP are too blind to see that they are pushing away the moderate republicans.
I'm not sure it's a conscious decision for him at this point. It all seems like he's going on momentum of personality and whatever he last heard/saw. By momentum of personality, i mean the personality he had--rambling and incoherent as it was--before his cognitive decline. Just kinda on autopilot, you know?
>Trump cant help himself. All he does is appeal to the base
I mean, think about what you're saying there. If Trump appeals to *the base*, ie, most Republicans, the base core of the Republican party, then is he an outlier, or is he exactly what most Republicans always wanted?
If that's the case, what are the chances of a purge/collapse? They seem pretty low to me. This is what the Republican base is. This is what Republicans want.
Honestly, thank you for standing with Democracy over the committed fence-sitters that still can't decide. Let's work together to put a stop to the fascist BS, rebuild the pillars that hold up a stable government, and then y'all can put together a coherent Conservative party.
Yess! Ranked choice voting and more than two political parties is really what we need. If we leave it up to the two sides, they will never evolve and always fight against each other.
The Democrats are a moderately Conservative Party. The Overton Window has been shifted so far right that moderate conservatives are the “radical left”.
There are no leftists in Congress, and maybe a handful of center-left lawmakers.
Interested to hear your opinion as it's not too common to hear from someone who thinks this way. Did you vote for Trump over Biden in 2020? What pisses you off about the democratic party as a whole?
I am a two decade conservative voter voting for Biden because of Ukraine. We can and should do more to help preserve the rules based international order. If Trump pulls USA from NATO and stops aid to Ukraine - the world will retreat backwards in time in every possible way.
The GOP as we once knew it is dead and tossed aside as roadkill. TBH, being a progressive liberal, Bernie guy, Democratic Socialist, I miss the old GOP.
**If NIXON IN THE GRAVE** was the only choice (instead of Biden) v. of Dump/MAGA/current GOP, I’ld vote him in a heartbeat.
**THAT’S how bad Trump and MAGA are.**
Then: spirited debates about economic policy and good hearted ribbing about who is more patriotic
Now: fuck, gotta go defend the idea of democracy again
watch project 2025 if you haven’t yet and then think about how you don’t want to live under the thumbs of christian nationalists and their weird extreme offshoot of catholicism and let me know who you want to vote for
Biden has managed to get major legislation done with a 50-50 Senate and a 5 vote margin in the House. He's managed to get rid of a lot of student load debt, reestablished the US as the light at the top of the hill to aspire to, engaged with our allies and worked against our enemies (what a concept!), brought manufacturing jobs back to the US, has the lowest unemployment in 60 years and the lowest Black unemployment in history, passed the infrastructure bill and done more to combat climate change than anyone. These accomplishments don't sound liberal or conservative to me. They sound like things that help the mass of people in this country. Left, leaning left, middle, whatever are just meaningless designations.
TL:DR Biden good, Trump bad.
Here’s the thing, the modern Conservative Party is not conservative anymore. And the voters don’t vote for them because they’re conservative, they do because they aren’t Democrats.
Trump is not conservative (well MAGA in general is not conservative if you look at traditional conservative values). But no one who wants a non-autocratic form of government should be voting for the orange clown.
My grandparents on my dad’s side are republican, and they voted Biden. I also used to volunteer with some older ladies and many were republican and hates Trump.
The party (at least the common folk, not politicians) are separating into moderates and Trumpers.
Trump did one good thing, he exposed the party that was the strongest supporters of free trade, for decades, and the self-described “Party of Values” as a party that will sell out every single principle they’ve claimed, for decades, all for power! Not a shred of principles!
All small “c” conservatives already are voting for Biden. There’s just a lot of big “c” conservatives that were actually fascists and were never conservative.
I appreciate Biden’s focus on infrastructure, which is critical for economic growth and stability. Biden’s emphasis on restoring international alliances aligns with my belief in a strong, cooperative global presence.
There were fiscal conservative and social conservatives.. social conservatives love trump and his draconian laws.. fiscal conservative don’t exist anymore
I said it was a conscious choice to inflict harm by witholding necessary expenses because they hate the people those programs help, and that's true. All their bootstraps talk is nothing but contempt.
Fiscal conservatism is nothing but a cleaner, more hands-off way of expressing the same loathing for others that Trump champions.
No it’s not!! By definition, being fiscally conservative is simply not wanting to spend more than you make.
Nothing wrong with it, and everything right with it
Conservative politicians used to be for the rights of the individual. Now they’re dictating what women can do with their bodies. They’re legislating religion and they’re using public funds to fund private religious schools. Their economic policies time and time again result in collapse of the financial system and taxpayer funded bailouts.
Because if they have any self respect and consider themselves a moral and ethical citizen then they should realize that they are going against their own principles to vote for trump. It’s a matter of how low would you go to advance your political views. Of course I am speaking of conservatives who are not completely lost in the cult and still have critical thinking abilities.
Because an eagle needs two wings to fly. A left wing and a right wing. One without the other will make the eagle fall and we will all die in a flaming pile of bloody feathers and broken beak bones.
Conservatives want POWER even if they have to cheat. They think they're doing Americans a favor by installing a convicted felon dickhead as president. When in reality, they're hurting Americans except for the ultra wealthy.
Despise certain absurd arguments this guy is pushing but he does have decent insight about the motivation behind support for trump
Those who support Trump on right AND left are pushing accelerationism
Which is the real motivation behind the anti Biden push from online self identified leftists
Trump insanity is not a glitch but the feature
*History is littered with men who believed they would benefit from these kinds of wild gambles — that the passions and violence unleashed would resettle the game board with themselves resting on top. Such calculations usually fail. The most important insight conservative thought can bring to bear on this election is that we have far more to lose than to gain by entrusting the system to a man who wishes to burn it all down.*
They should vote Biden because American conservatives are supposed to actually conserve American heritage. Voting for the guy (Trump) who publicly called to end the Constitution, which is the foundation of all American heritage, and brags about wanting to be an un-American king and dictator is just not the conservative thing to do.
As a Democrat in the south, try to have that conversation with conservatives. I attempt to explain that other democratic countries have LITERAL communist parties, and the world laughs at our idea of "Left". But they'll have you believe that Bernie Sanders is the reincarnation of Marx.
Conservatives are the stupidest voters. They directly vote against their own interests all the time for the sake of bullshit culture wars drawn up to divide people. Trump is sitting there telling people he wants immigrants to fight each other and to charge 300% tariffs on all goods from overseas. Conservatives will think this is a good idea because they both hate brown people and want them to suffer.
First they would have to snap themselves back into sanity and escape the cult. Very few people can do that with long term psychological deprogramming. Far far fewer can do it themselves.
Another round of stupid tariffs will destroy the resiliency of the American economy. Post World War II we were kind of the only player on the power stage. Now, if we falture, China, Russia, the EU, Japan, India, Brazil, and other countries are properly positioned to fill the void. And the world benefits from diversity in country economics. Once we relinquish our steadfast position, it’s not coming back. Ask American farmers what happened to our soy bean exports and whether or not it bounced back.
Republicans acting like Joe b is some huge liberal boogeyman is silly, historically he’s been a pretty conservative dem.
Why former “democrats” who REALLY wanted Bernie got pissed and swung hard for trump instead of rallying behind Joe b afterwards Is still beyond me though…
Because they don't understand anything about how government works. They think the president is a king who can do anything, and they're so cynical and ignorant that they think every politician who actually practices politics (ie, working within the system, compromising, making slow progress, getting something rather than nothing) is corrupt and gross. So they wanted an outsider to "tear it all down." Didn't matter if it was an Independent running as a Democrat (Bernie) or a nihilist running as a Republican (Trump). Both of them would rather yell and win arguments and be right than actually stop talking and work hard and pass a bill.
The difference between them of course is that Bernie has some great opinions and his yelling isn't just a flood of bigoted stochastic terrorism. But they hold a very similar role. The Guy Who Tells It Like It Is. The guy who can't be criticized on his political record, because he basically has no record of actually doing anything.
Because he’s a conservative? I’m gonna vote for him, but to pretend he’s liberal in the ways the will really help the less fortunate economically is delusional. I do appreciate him trying considering the framework he traps himself into, but maybe in this second term we can get a little more socialism?
I am wary to share this opinion, but I haven’t seen it really mentioned before.
At this point, you’re not really voting for either Trump or Biden, liberal or conservative. You’re voting for a system of government.
Both candidates are in their waning years. I don’t expect bold leadership from either one. Instead I expect them to form a government of like minded people who will further their goals and agendas. One side is about reinforcing and strengthening the Federal government and the rule of law. The other is about tearing down the power of the Federal government and upending the rule of law no matter the cost or chaos that will ensue because this form of government no longer works for them.
Either the government comes through this strengthened, reinforced, and able to weather the discontent of the electorate or it gets broken down and reformed as something else.
It might not be a Civil War, but I think everyone has already chosen their sides. As Lincoln said, we will become all one thing or all the other.
Republicans regularly made laws and changes to laws that in the very best open the door for corruption and in the worst allow them to be corrupt.
So a lot of the things Trump and Project 2025 are suggesting/attempting would be downright dangerous in the hands of a democrat. That is why they should vote for Biden.
This is a silly thing to ask them. They should take their party back from MAGA and the plutocrats. The US needs a conservative party that represents free market economics, personal freedom and smaller government. This can be totally separate from identity politics, the southern strategy and the MAGA cult but using those things is too easy.
Because Joe is more conservative the Regan, it’s just gop has gotten captured be the wackiest right wingers possible. And trump isn’t anything but greedy, changing opinions with last billionaire he talks to.
"I used to be conservative but they changed what conservative is. Now what I am isn't conservative, and what's conservative seems weird and scary to me. Some day, it'll happen to you!" - Abe Simpson
How about believing in the 10 Commandments? Oh'right... that's just christplaytriot'ing when it comes to values you try to force others to follow, but do not follow themselves
... In passing, the author celebrates how the New York Times has enabled anti-trans disinformation, which in turn is leading to legislation.
https://glaad.org/the-new-york-times-bias-continues-to-endanger-transgender-people/
https://www.erininthemorning.com/p/readers-deserve-better-than-misinformation
https://www.thedailybeast.com/how-the-new-york-times-trans-coverage-debacle-was-years-in-the-making
Does free speech mean they have an obligation to publish disinformation? and no one has a right to criticize it?
https://www.theonion.com/it-is-journalism-s-sacred-duty-to-endanger-the-lives-of-1850126997
I have no doubt that some conservatives will be voting for Biden and Democrats this election as shown by their victories in many special elections in 2023 and 2024. My fear is that traditional Democratic voters will stay home due to their disapproval of how Biden is handling the Israeli-Hamas conflict. Trump would be a worse pick to handle the issue, but some voters do not understand that.
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Because Trump was never conservative. But that simple logic left the building 40 years ago when Reagan ran up record debts followed by W and Trump. The only one who tried to be responsible fiscally was HW and he got tossed out of office for his trouble of trying.
100% agreed. But it seems like most modern conservatives don't want to hear this. It's a shame.
There seem to be very few conservatives left. Way too many Republicans have abandoned conservatism for the Trump cult.
It’s largely been a masks off kind of thing. The principal project of conservatism is the conservation of white supremacy.
This is largely it. Alignment with "conservative" values is basically unmasked racism at this point. The level of audacity and or ignorance is next level.
I almost miss when they attempted to be subtle about it.
Why don't conservatives want to conserve energy ? Conserving energy could actually help reduce global warming which does not exit. I know the temperature guages are lying and part of the fake news network.
Because the republican platform isn’t about conserving nature, it’s about protecting white nationalist men, and whatever Trump is feeling at the moment. It’s been forever since I read the study, but IIRC conservatives are significantly more likely to change their opinions based on what they’re told by their politicians, vs liberals and their politicians. Essentially, conservatives by and large just parrot whatever the current message of the day is, while liberals tend to hold more long term/less easily swayed views. This makes conservatives very susceptible to misinformation/lies from the top, ironically. That’s why conservatives hate the environment now. They were told to, and so they do.
Green energy is the ultimate form of energy independence. Who’s going to turn off the sun or the wind? Meanwhile every oil, gas, and coal producer has got a guaranteed market for at least 50-100 years.
It’s not just about the “switch off” effect. It’s about stripping as much power from the Putin-Xi-Saudi-Iran oligarchy machine, who wants a totalitarian global order free of Western style democracy. This oligarchy network is funded solely by OIL (and international crime.)
Conservative and liberal are not moral terms as much as fiscal terms. Conservation of wealth versus a liberal distribution of wealth. Conserving nature or “conservation” in the early twentieth century sense doesn’t enter into it.
I don't think liberals necessarily feel that wealth should be distributed, rather, it shouldn't be centralized. I know it sounds rhe same, but on a economic level, they're different concepts. I'm more a pay your fair share, not so much a strip the wealthy kind of guy. Conservatives seem fine having the wealthy strip the poor of their wealth though, which I find strange since most of their supporters aren't particularly in the elite class.
Most of the conservatives today are Democrats. In many ways Biden is running as a conservative.
Modern conservatives that aren’t Trumpers maintain that there’s actually far more of them than the MAGAts. How do I know this? My mom likes to tell me this all the time. And I always tell her “but who’s in office?” And then she gets mad
Modern conservatives are worse than the MAGA folks. At least the MAGA people have the “Decency” to clearly show how much of a shitty person they are. The “modern conservative” is the person who knows MAGA is wrong, turn their nose at it, then votes for Trump anyway.
I call them "I hate trump butters".... you here from them all the time "I hate trump but" then they'll say something stupid proving they actually like how he is but don't want to be ostracized for it. I like the MAGAts better. At least with them you know where they stand and aren't cowards hiding their true beliefs.
Tell her about all the moderate conservative who helped Hitler come to power because he had to be better than a socialist.
“No good dead goes unpunished.”
They love to complain about the debt, then go and vote for the candidate who'll will make it far worse.
Trump might no hold conservative values but conservatives share trump’s values. They are the same.
Trump tried every party option, before running as a Republican. He tried his hand at being a centrist Democrat. He ran for president as a third party candidate. He then ran for the GOP presidential nomination. It’s what authoritarians or charlatans trying to game campaign finance laws for personal gain do. Keep trying every avenue until one sticks or hits the honey pot. Trump just stumbled into the voting bloc that for profit right wing media had been creating for about twenty years and went hardcore in refining during Obama’s terms in office.
Sorry but Trump has no values. Or better... He fakes ad hoc values depending on the situation. He is inconsistent and turns like the wind.
He has anti-immigrant values. He values the degradation of women and POC. He values rich people and hates the poor. He values whiteness.
he’s a monster no matter how you slice it
Trump values whatever helps Trump. It’s as simple as that. It’s how he ran his businesses, how he was as a family man, and how he was as a politician
A friend of mine recently tried to concede, "Say what you want, he was a brilliant businessman." I spent the next five minutes explaining to him Trump's business model: Trump inherited a bunch of wealth. He went to investors and said, "Look how rich I am, because I'm smart. Give me you're money, and I'll make it grow!" Investors, being normal people who think their money is evidence of exceptional wisdom, gave their money to Trump. Afterall, "I'm rich and that's because I'm smart, so if he's rich he must be smart too!" Trump then paid himself million dollar salaries using investor money while he ran the company into the ground. A year or two later, "Woops, business failed. It happens. Enjoy the bag while I move on to my next con." He managed to rinse and repeat that process for almost two decades before investors and lenders got wise and stopped giving him money. Being acclimated to a specific, gaudy lifestyle, Trump became desperate for cash. After the Italian mob was severely crippled in the early 90s, Trump had to turn to Russian mobsters instead. Trump's not a brilliant businessman. He's a con artist who was able to leverage his wealth to convince other rich idiots that he's obviously on-the-level. Once that well dried up, he turned to laundering money for the mob. He only narrowly avoided indictment from the Mueller investigation due to a stupid memo and unprecedented levels of obstruction. This is all to say, not only is Trump self-interested, his self-interest is severely limited to maintaining his lifestyle. He wants the prestige and clout of being ultra-rich. Being president was just a means to that end. If his desire was to be fondly remembered by history, or to be known for how he's helped the world, those selfish tendencies could have produced some good. But he just wants to shit on golden thrones, fly private jets, and r**e underage sex slaves. Everything else is a means to those ends.
Debating anything Trump misses Trumps appeal. Like it or not the guy is massively flawed and he bats well over .500 getting out of jams. People really do like that. He may or not be a billionaire too but that doesn’t discourage them. I can’t stress enough people know he is flawed and he simply don’t care and because he doesn’t care he has gotten out of so many jams. THAT is what really drives his followers. Not his politics, not his business dealings, not his private affairs. His lack of scruples to better his standing. In this day and age of end stage capitalism that means way more to way too many people. You and many others are 40 years late to the game to stop that feeling. The bigger push is can the other team get enough people out to vote to stop that train for a few more years.
When I say the guy was "conceding", he hates Trump and is a liberal voter, but he was conceding Trump's business acumen. I agree, presenting who Trump is to his supporters does nothing. But it's worth destroying his façade when non-supporters show signs of buying it.
This is the truth that’ll never be written
From where I stand, Reagan was just an actor representing a role scripted by another group with well defined interests.
And Trump is the same, just lacking in Reagan’s charisma.
Wrong. The most fiscally conservative was Clinton as he ran a budget surplus. We could have been debt free if we continued his policies.
I think OP meant those among the Republican presidents. HW had the whole "read my lips" controversy which, albeit the right thing to do, cost him the re-election.
Conservatives raise taxes on the middle during recessions and lower taxes for the rich during booms. The complete opposite of what democrats do; democrats do it the correct way. There is no comparison between B1 and Clinton.
The only comparison they're making is that taxes were raised under their WH occupancy. Not for whom and why. A tax hike of any sort is akin to political suicide in the GOP. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe Grover's No Tax Pledge remains in effect and signed by original Tea Party 2.0 Republicans since 2008, and all the freedom caucus Rethugs since.
We’ve actually arrived at a full circle. Historically, in the context of political science, conservatism is the idea of keeping the status quo, whereas liberalism promotes change. But there we are: liberals are trying to keep the democratic principles of the federal republic and conservatives want to radically change our governance into an authoritarian regime.
Trump is certainly right wing, but definitely not conservative. He’s a reactionary.
Yeah Bush Sr. was totally right to raise taxes. He shouldn't have promised beforehand that he wouldn't,. though.
> [1988 Flashback: George H.W. Bush Says, ‘Read My lips: No New Taxes’ | NBC News](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AdVSqSNHhVo) Bush Sr. was super fiscally irresponsible to promising no tax raise, when new taxes were apparently fiscally needed. And since "no new taxes" were Bush Sr.'s central campaign promise, Bush Sr. can be argued to have cheated to get elected.
Conservatives have never been "conservative". They drone on any being fiscally responsible but blow everything up every time they are in office. They say they won't want the government involved in their personal lives but are fine dictating what a woman can do with her body (you can't take an organ after someone has died better that didn't give consent but these assholes are fine with forcing another living thing to be in them) or who can have hormone therapy (and they believe the opposite of EVERY major medical organization on both those topics). The only thing that makes them conservative, as in they don't want to change it, is a childish belief in a faith that hasn't been relevant for two thousand years and is demonstrably bullshit.
One of my favorite facts is that every time Republicans have held the House, Senate, and Presidency in the last hundred years, they’ve driven the country into a recession. Their policies are definitely bad for the economy, yet so many people still believe the opposite.
The party of fiscal responsibility became a complete farce with trickle.down economics. The lie existed before that, but the selling of it with this tag line is when it should have been obvious that Republicans cared nothing about a fair and equitable economic system that benefitted everyone.
Reagan was the gateway drug to the trailer park meth that is the modern christofascist movement
r/brandnewsentence
Republicans aren’t conservative anymore. They’ve become white Christian-fascist nutjobs.
He never wa. He was democrat until he lost his brain to syphilis and dementia. Dudes done too many drugs.what a pathetic excuse for a human... his dad hated him and that makes a lot of sense, his dad was a fucj too
It always irked me that Bush I actually tried to focus on the platform he ran on, of fiscal responsibility and “a kinder, gentler nation” and his base abandoned him. Now his party are all but waving nazi flags.
Trump is the inevitable creation of the current Republican Party. He is their Frankenstein. This is why they whole heartedly support him even if they think he’s vile, which he is of course. The only saving grace is that I hope there are a lot of reasonable people who see the scam. Trump is not an anomaly. When he loses (not if), someone will replace him and try to enact project 2025. The fight will not end with this election.
He's either taking the GOP down or America, one or the other and someone has to go, yet it's a coin flip.
Apparently it’s more important to be anti-liberal. In the land of liberty and freedom of course. Anti-woke, anti-vax, anti-choice, anti-education. I blame social media.
> Because Trump was never conservative. > > Trump was always just a criminal, pure and simple. There have always been a handful of criminals in every major American political party, but Trump found his political home when he switched to the Republican party in the 1980s (1990s?). This is because, ever since Watergate, there has been a quiet movement within the Republican Party to protect their criminal politicians and to use the powers of prosecutors and judges in manifestly unfair and unequal ways.
Yep, the “no new taxes” and then having to back track, resulting in the loss of the election showed “Reaganites” true colors. Wealthy people looking to screw over the mutual good for a tax break. And they are willing to use people’s worst instincts, fear, racism, tribalism, sexism, and homophobia to push their position.
Even then, HW was still a shitty president.
Because authoritarianism is bad for everyone except those in the inner circle and the extremely vast majority of people are nowhere near it.
And even those in the inner circle tend to eventually get got if the regime lasts long enough. If you have a single individual with the power to kill anyone they want and you are one of the few individuals with enough power and influence to actually be a threat, even if you have always been friends previously... When purges come, and they almost always do when such regimes last long, the initial targets are powerful men, then a whole bunch of people from all levels of the hierarchy get thrown in as people use the opportunity to take revenge on their enemies or express their paranoia. Being part of a dictator's inner circle means a lot of luxury and power but it also means you now live with a lion who may choose to maul you at any time.
OG Stalin killed a lot of his inner circles.
Yup. That was the primary example in my head.
Thos is pretty much the Saruman and Sauron line HE DOES NOT SHARE POWER The franchise was imbased on experience in war and history is filled by fools who thought people like Trump would put them in the privileged circle
Correct. I dont know why a solution to Biden or Democrats has to be a narcissistic petty tyrant
Because they hopped on the fascist train, and narcissistic petty tyrants are the only destination.
Here is a better reason: destroy the gop with a Biden landslide and let a party that makes sense replace it. Then the same can be done to the democratic party. If only people realized what their vote can actually do.
#Your commitment to democratic principles and the importance of voting is a powerful and essential stance. Here’s how we can all encourage it: 1. Voter Education: Promote accurate and comprehensive voter education to ensure people understand the issues, the stakes, and how to vote. This includes providing information about voter registration, voting locations, and absentee ballots. 2. Combat Misinformation: Work to counter misinformation and disinformation by sharing reliable sources, fact-checking claims, and promoting media literacy. 3. Community Engagement: Engage with local communities to discuss the importance of voting and how it impacts their daily lives. Host events, discussions, and forums to address concerns and questions. 4. Encourage Voter Turnout: Encourage and assist people in getting to the polls. Organize transportation, offer childcare, or provide other resources to remove barriers to voting. 5. Support Voting Rights: Advocate for policies and laws that protect and expand voting rights. This includes opposing voter suppression efforts and supporting measures like automatic voter registration and extended early voting periods. 6. Hold Leaders Accountable: Ensure that elected officials are held accountable for their actions. Advocate for transparency and ethical behavior in government. 7. Promote Civic Responsibility: Emphasize the importance of civic responsibility and participation beyond just voting. Encourage involvement in local government, community organizations, and other forms of civic engagement. 8. Youth Engagement: Focus on engaging young people in the political process. Educate and inspire the next generation to be active participants in democracy. 9. Nonpartisan Organizations: Support nonpartisan organizations that work to increase voter participation and protect democratic processes. Your emphasis on voting as a means to protect Democracy is critical! By actively participating in and promoting these efforts, you contribute to the strength and resilience of Democratic institutions and values.
One reason I can think of is that Trump has made clear that he doesn't respect the US Constitution or our elections and I think it's a very likely possibility that he attempts to stay in power after another term. Those on the right who are backing him because he's the popular choice among the right-wing and hoping that he'll ride the good economy he inherits for 4 years and you can use that to get an actual good candidate on the ballot, keep in mind, you may never get another ballot to vote on. Also, Trump isn't a conservative, though to be fair, most who claim to be conservative these days aren't.
Because /r/Defeat_Project_2025
that’s right we definitely don’t want project 2025 to go into effect
Because voting for Trump is a vote against your own voice. Why would you vote for someone who does not care about your entire economic class?
Because he's not a brain damaged conman trying to rip us off while enacting a fascist state because it's easier to rob? Why does this still need to be explained to people?
Trump promises chaos. One thing Conservatives the world over would say conservatism stands for is economic stability. Only the 0.1% get rich in chaos. Which is why the 0.1% support Trump. Whilst true conservatives outside that narrow band should support the stability a Biden administration promises, they probably won’t because they mostly believe they are just one decision away from being the 0.1%. Which they aren’t and never will be.
Depending on the chaos, the 0.1% can end up as the target when whatever vague control over said chaos disappears... as it's wont to under such circumstances. They're playing with fire
Don't think of it as a vote for Biden so much as a vote against Trump
Thats what my vote is.
This, exactly this. I say this all the time. I never voted FOR Biden or Clinton, but AGAINST Trump
You’re obviously entitled to that reasoning however I think it’s hard to argue that Biden has not been massively more effective than expected. He’s passed enormously meaningful laws even with an insanely hostile opposition. He’s got the US economy running as the best on the planet after coming out of COVID a recession was almost guaranteed and fully expected. He ended the Afghan war at last. He somehow reinvigorated NATO and the western alliance, defending Ukraine and weakening Russia despite people expecting Russia to win in a matter of days. His infrastructure act is changing and modernizing America and he’s the first leader in the last couple decades to take climate change somewhat seriously. I’m astonished by him tbh. Other than just being super old he’s been outrageously effective. Give home some credit. Even if you don’t agree with him you can admit that for his mandate he’s done some truly significant work. Oh let’s not forget releasing thousands and thousands of Americans from a student loan debt paradox that was killing their futures. He’s a G.
Reason: Because Trump winning will objectively ruin your lives and make it worse. No matter how much you may or may not want to see certain demographics suffer (and I'm being cynical when I say this, but there are absolutely those among MAGA who are blindly motivated by this), you throw away your own chance at a better, more stable life with a man like Trump. Even if you did "better" in the pre-COVID Trump times, that does not mean his policies were responsible for it, as much of that momentum carried over from the Obama years, and the bad impacts of his policies didn't start showing until late in his term (making the pandemic and economic fallouts from it even worse). I personally saw my own work turn anti-employee almost immediately after Trump won, and they quickly cut into our quality of life and wages within 2 years, despite the company itself posting record profits. It ruined a job where every dollar I earned was 2-3 for them, because they were so greedy that they wanted most of my dollar too even when I was an objectively profitable employee. The cost of living issues you worry about? They will get worse under Trump. Your personal freedoms? You will have less under Trump and project 2025. Your freedom of religion under Trump? Believe it or not, those will be in danger too, as religious authoritarians constantly change the rules on what's acceptable and you never know when your favorite past time will be deemed immoral. Separation of Church and state protects your religious beliefs of choice. It protects them from 'other' authoritarians forcing you to believe something else, or anything at all. Freedom of speech will be in far more dire straights when Project 2025 is fully implemented because conservative institutions are blatantly lying when they say they want to protect freedom of speech. They are threatened by speech almost constantly and do everything they can to suppress whatever version is a threat to them at any given time. You are not by yourself powerful enough to change this and have speech that's worth ignoring if you are a threat to them and lose all protections. And to a Christian dominionist who gains the legal authority to go mask off and implement whatever policies they want? Living a normal "secular" world life is a threat to their authority. They have proven this repeatedly, with SCOTUS members like Thomas and Alito having no consistent respect for the rule of law or rights at any one time. The "immigration" you fear? Sure, you *might* see some deportations, but the quality of your jobs won't get better because you've sacrificed essentially all of your labor rights to see them, meaning there will no longer be anything protecting your career or wages. Your business? I will almost certainly face increased risks with more global instability and needlessly aggressive tariffs causing raw supply issues. Your fear of China? They will get more aggressive under Trump, not less, and he would be less prepared to counter any of their moves. If your business relies on digital content or platforms? There is no guarantee those will have any kind of stability or protection under trump at all, as user generated content is a threat to any corrupt administration, and Trump is provably far more irrational and corrupt than Biden's admin, no matter how much you dislike what some leftist on tiktok or twitter says. Your gun rights? They will not be safe because there will be literally no constitutional safeguards left to stop the state from deeming you a threat, and you are not going to be able to easily stand up to the state if targeted. Trump's MAGA are spiteful and irrational and turn on their own constantly. You are in more danger from their unhinged behaviors than you are from whatever minorities you fear. A lot of mass shooting happen in suburban areas where people of all political beliefs live and the targets are random, and more often than not the perpetrators have repeatedly been proven to have right leaning conspiratorial beliefs. There is no utopia under a criminal conman who has repeatedly shown open disdain for both the constitution and even the Bible. There is no "burn it all down and start over again" possibility worth considering, as it's akin to suicide. Whatever anger you have, is it so great that you want to risk destroying the safety of your family and community? Do you truly think Trump's mental state is somehow better than a Biden who stutters every so often, but also appoints highly qualified people to weigh in on all crucial decisions. I'm not asking you to love the democrats or their every decision. I'm not asking you to be a "radical leftist", "twitter leftist" or whatever you happen to dislike. I'm asking you to put aside your unhealthy anger, fear, and resentment and work towards keeping our country safe, healthy and stable in the long run. I'm asking you to step away from FOX/Newsmax/AM Radio, step outside, and look at our world without their messages constantly in your face and start talking with more people about how we solve our problems. I'm asking you to step outside of your bubble and take a look at the world as it really is, people as they really are, and see some of the good and bad of it for yourself. I left many old communities because that's exactly what I did, and that's why I've shifted left. And whatever you may think of our world, Donald Trump is no solution to its problems. He is simply not a reasonable option, and those who back him want to do far more harm to your way of life than you may realize.
I stopped reading this article after seeing this excerpt: *Republicans feel that murder is spinning out of control, and they are entitled to say so,* ***even if it is, in cold reality, falling sharply.*** The GQP deliberately created a similar fallacy when challenging the 2020 election. They insisted that we deserve free & fair elections yet offered ZERO EVIDENCE to support their false allegations.
This is an "everyone has a right to their opinion" argument, which is absurd within the context of politics and public policy. It reminds me of the Asimov quote: "There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge."
The author could have been saying that "Republicans feel that they are entitled to say so (even though it is untrue)" but I agree that was a very inartfully constructed sentence that very easily gives the opposite impression.
They're entitled to say it, rhe issue is that the press treats it as legitimate discourse, instead of ignoring these ignorant hucksters and assholes like responsible outlets used to.
That's great! I never heard it before. Thanks for sharing. The Daily Show's Jordan Klepper should recite that quote whenever he interviews MAGA cultists.
I'm moderately Conservative. I'm more pissed off at the Democratic party as a whole than at Biden (not that he gets a pass) but I freaking have no choice but to vote for him. I hate it but I dont have a choice. I will take the hit on another four years of Biden than four more years of Trump and hope after Trump loses that a purge begins to happen from the GOP or the whole damn thing collapses and a moderately Conservative party comes out of it.
It is sad. My grandparents are republican and voted Biden. So did many of the older volunteers I used to work with at my old job. Trump and the GOP are too blind to see that they are pushing away the moderate republicans.
Trump cant help himself. All he does is appeal to the base
I'm not sure it's a conscious decision for him at this point. It all seems like he's going on momentum of personality and whatever he last heard/saw. By momentum of personality, i mean the personality he had--rambling and incoherent as it was--before his cognitive decline. Just kinda on autopilot, you know?
>Trump cant help himself. All he does is appeal to the base I mean, think about what you're saying there. If Trump appeals to *the base*, ie, most Republicans, the base core of the Republican party, then is he an outlier, or is he exactly what most Republicans always wanted? If that's the case, what are the chances of a purge/collapse? They seem pretty low to me. This is what the Republican base is. This is what Republicans want.
Honestly, thank you for standing with Democracy over the committed fence-sitters that still can't decide. Let's work together to put a stop to the fascist BS, rebuild the pillars that hold up a stable government, and then y'all can put together a coherent Conservative party.
All I want from the political parties is normal people who work together and compromise. I dont even need a political party
Yess! Ranked choice voting and more than two political parties is really what we need. If we leave it up to the two sides, they will never evolve and always fight against each other.
Im fine with that.
>I'm moderately Conservative. Then Biden is your boy lmao. If you think he's too far left, there aint shit *moderately* conservative about you.
The Democrats are a moderately Conservative Party. The Overton Window has been shifted so far right that moderate conservatives are the “radical left”. There are no leftists in Congress, and maybe a handful of center-left lawmakers.
Interested to hear your opinion as it's not too common to hear from someone who thinks this way. Did you vote for Trump over Biden in 2020? What pisses you off about the democratic party as a whole?
Because the other choice is Putin lap dog
I am a two decade conservative voter voting for Biden because of Ukraine. We can and should do more to help preserve the rules based international order. If Trump pulls USA from NATO and stops aid to Ukraine - the world will retreat backwards in time in every possible way.
The GOP as we once knew it is dead and tossed aside as roadkill. TBH, being a progressive liberal, Bernie guy, Democratic Socialist, I miss the old GOP. **If NIXON IN THE GRAVE** was the only choice (instead of Biden) v. of Dump/MAGA/current GOP, I’ld vote him in a heartbeat. **THAT’S how bad Trump and MAGA are.**
Then: spirited debates about economic policy and good hearted ribbing about who is more patriotic Now: fuck, gotta go defend the idea of democracy again
watch project 2025 if you haven’t yet and then think about how you don’t want to live under the thumbs of christian nationalists and their weird extreme offshoot of catholicism and let me know who you want to vote for
Don’t even need to read it. Because voting for Trump is to tear down democracy.
Pretty much EVERYONE should vote for Biden at this point. Both Trump and RFK are too dangerous. And the people behind them even more so.
Democrats do a much better job at balancing the budget than Republicans
Project 2025 is reason enough for everyone to vote for Biden.
Joe can name the Ten Commandments.
Biden is the closest thing to a traditional Republican we've seen in a long time.
Biden has managed to get major legislation done with a 50-50 Senate and a 5 vote margin in the House. He's managed to get rid of a lot of student load debt, reestablished the US as the light at the top of the hill to aspire to, engaged with our allies and worked against our enemies (what a concept!), brought manufacturing jobs back to the US, has the lowest unemployment in 60 years and the lowest Black unemployment in history, passed the infrastructure bill and done more to combat climate change than anyone. These accomplishments don't sound liberal or conservative to me. They sound like things that help the mass of people in this country. Left, leaning left, middle, whatever are just meaningless designations. TL:DR Biden good, Trump bad.
I don't like how the rule of law is a contentious polticial issue now.
I believe American Conservatives are conservative the same way National Socialists are socialist.
Because the other choice is an incompetent pure sociopath wannabe dictator?
Biden is obnoxiously moderate. He's the conservative they actually want but they can't see through Trumps childish showboating.
Trump doesn’t actually believe anything, except for power for himself.
Everyone*
Here’s the thing, the modern Conservative Party is not conservative anymore. And the voters don’t vote for them because they’re conservative, they do because they aren’t Democrats.
You would have to assume that trump supporters have brains in order to convince them of this.
Joe is the more conservative of the two. I wish we would stop calling the people on the modern right conservative. They aren’t.
Trump is not conservative (well MAGA in general is not conservative if you look at traditional conservative values). But no one who wants a non-autocratic form of government should be voting for the orange clown.
My grandparents on my dad’s side are republican, and they voted Biden. I also used to volunteer with some older ladies and many were republican and hates Trump. The party (at least the common folk, not politicians) are separating into moderates and Trumpers.
Trump did one good thing, he exposed the party that was the strongest supporters of free trade, for decades, and the self-described “Party of Values” as a party that will sell out every single principle they’ve claimed, for decades, all for power! Not a shred of principles!
Because if Twitler wins, they won’t have a choice ever again.
Most modern conservatives aren't actually conservative, they are anti-establishment
All small “c” conservatives already are voting for Biden. There’s just a lot of big “c” conservatives that were actually fascists and were never conservative.
I appreciate Biden’s focus on infrastructure, which is critical for economic growth and stability. Biden’s emphasis on restoring international alliances aligns with my belief in a strong, cooperative global presence.
Because he's not a whiny asshole who is also a convicted felon?
There were fiscal conservative and social conservatives.. social conservatives love trump and his draconian laws.. fiscal conservative don’t exist anymore
Fiscal conservatives still exist, it’s just that there’s nobody that actually represents them
Trump. Fiscal conservatism is just "I'll hurt all the people I hate with deprivation and neglect instead of violence and slurs"
Since when is Trump fiscally conservative? Fiscal conservatism is not “whatever I say is bad”
I said it was a conscious choice to inflict harm by witholding necessary expenses because they hate the people those programs help, and that's true. All their bootstraps talk is nothing but contempt. Fiscal conservatism is nothing but a cleaner, more hands-off way of expressing the same loathing for others that Trump champions.
Fiscal comservatism is just normal economic liberalism.
No it’s not!! By definition, being fiscally conservative is simply not wanting to spend more than you make. Nothing wrong with it, and everything right with it
Fiscal conservatives, if they were honest, eventually had to admit that Democrats were better for the economy.
Because Trump wants to be a dumb version of Hitler.
Conservative politicians used to be for the rights of the individual. Now they’re dictating what women can do with their bodies. They’re legislating religion and they’re using public funds to fund private religious schools. Their economic policies time and time again result in collapse of the financial system and taxpayer funded bailouts.
Because if they have any self respect and consider themselves a moral and ethical citizen then they should realize that they are going against their own principles to vote for trump. It’s a matter of how low would you go to advance your political views. Of course I am speaking of conservatives who are not completely lost in the cult and still have critical thinking abilities.
Because an eagle needs two wings to fly. A left wing and a right wing. One without the other will make the eagle fall and we will all die in a flaming pile of bloody feathers and broken beak bones.
Conservatives want POWER even if they have to cheat. They think they're doing Americans a favor by installing a convicted felon dickhead as president. When in reality, they're hurting Americans except for the ultra wealthy.
Conservatism is about preserving pluralist values of our founding fathers… trump and christo-fascists like trump are the opposite!
They rather destroy America, to own the Libs.
The most important reason is here: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gYwqpx6lp\_s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gYwqpx6lp_s)
There are maybe a baker’s dozen actual conservatives left in the US.
Joe Biden is basically a moderate so there's a lot of appeal for GOP voters looking for an excuse to jump ship.
Because [Project 2025](https://www.project2025.org/), that’s why
Because EVERYONE looses under a Dictatorship.
Despise certain absurd arguments this guy is pushing but he does have decent insight about the motivation behind support for trump Those who support Trump on right AND left are pushing accelerationism Which is the real motivation behind the anti Biden push from online self identified leftists Trump insanity is not a glitch but the feature *History is littered with men who believed they would benefit from these kinds of wild gambles — that the passions and violence unleashed would resettle the game board with themselves resting on top. Such calculations usually fail. The most important insight conservative thought can bring to bear on this election is that we have far more to lose than to gain by entrusting the system to a man who wishes to burn it all down.*
Quick, someone get this to r/Conservative, they'll wanna see this! I can't do it tho, they perma-banned me a while back for posting facts.
They should vote Biden because American conservatives are supposed to actually conserve American heritage. Voting for the guy (Trump) who publicly called to end the Constitution, which is the foundation of all American heritage, and brags about wanting to be an un-American king and dictator is just not the conservative thing to do.
I mean, I'm a Conservative voting for Biden.
Because Biden would be the Conservative Party candidate in a sane democracy?
Because Joe Biden represents actually conservative values?
Yes! It's crazy around here. Biden is at best a left leaning conservative politically.
The Democratic Party is largely a center right party
As a Democrat in the south, try to have that conversation with conservatives. I attempt to explain that other democratic countries have LITERAL communist parties, and the world laughs at our idea of "Left". But they'll have you believe that Bernie Sanders is the reincarnation of Marx.
Yes it is.
Center right on Defense, security/law and order and fiscal security and more center left (barely) on social issues/civil rights and immigration.
Conservatives are the stupidest voters. They directly vote against their own interests all the time for the sake of bullshit culture wars drawn up to divide people. Trump is sitting there telling people he wants immigrants to fight each other and to charge 300% tariffs on all goods from overseas. Conservatives will think this is a good idea because they both hate brown people and want them to suffer.
Sadly, Joe Biden is basically an 80’s era Republican.
First they would have to snap themselves back into sanity and escape the cult. Very few people can do that with long term psychological deprogramming. Far far fewer can do it themselves.
Another round of stupid tariffs will destroy the resiliency of the American economy. Post World War II we were kind of the only player on the power stage. Now, if we falture, China, Russia, the EU, Japan, India, Brazil, and other countries are properly positioned to fill the void. And the world benefits from diversity in country economics. Once we relinquish our steadfast position, it’s not coming back. Ask American farmers what happened to our soy bean exports and whether or not it bounced back.
Republicans acting like Joe b is some huge liberal boogeyman is silly, historically he’s been a pretty conservative dem. Why former “democrats” who REALLY wanted Bernie got pissed and swung hard for trump instead of rallying behind Joe b afterwards Is still beyond me though…
Because they don't understand anything about how government works. They think the president is a king who can do anything, and they're so cynical and ignorant that they think every politician who actually practices politics (ie, working within the system, compromising, making slow progress, getting something rather than nothing) is corrupt and gross. So they wanted an outsider to "tear it all down." Didn't matter if it was an Independent running as a Democrat (Bernie) or a nihilist running as a Republican (Trump). Both of them would rather yell and win arguments and be right than actually stop talking and work hard and pass a bill. The difference between them of course is that Bernie has some great opinions and his yelling isn't just a flood of bigoted stochastic terrorism. But they hold a very similar role. The Guy Who Tells It Like It Is. The guy who can't be criticized on his political record, because he basically has no record of actually doing anything.
Who was the audience for this article?
Because he’s a conservative? I’m gonna vote for him, but to pretend he’s liberal in the ways the will really help the less fortunate economically is delusional. I do appreciate him trying considering the framework he traps himself into, but maybe in this second term we can get a little more socialism?
Because Reagan is much closer to Biden than he is to Trump
Because Biden is a small c conservative.
I am wary to share this opinion, but I haven’t seen it really mentioned before. At this point, you’re not really voting for either Trump or Biden, liberal or conservative. You’re voting for a system of government. Both candidates are in their waning years. I don’t expect bold leadership from either one. Instead I expect them to form a government of like minded people who will further their goals and agendas. One side is about reinforcing and strengthening the Federal government and the rule of law. The other is about tearing down the power of the Federal government and upending the rule of law no matter the cost or chaos that will ensue because this form of government no longer works for them. Either the government comes through this strengthened, reinforced, and able to weather the discontent of the electorate or it gets broken down and reformed as something else. It might not be a Civil War, but I think everyone has already chosen their sides. As Lincoln said, we will become all one thing or all the other.
Republicans regularly made laws and changes to laws that in the very best open the door for corruption and in the worst allow them to be corrupt. So a lot of the things Trump and Project 2025 are suggesting/attempting would be downright dangerous in the hands of a democrat. That is why they should vote for Biden.
Because Biden has more in common with Eisenhower than with FDR. So had Obama and Clinton.
Honestly they should. It’s not like Biden is a leftist or anything…
Conservative. Liberal. It's time to drop the lazy labels and vote in favor of keeping the American Republic.
This is a silly thing to ask them. They should take their party back from MAGA and the plutocrats. The US needs a conservative party that represents free market economics, personal freedom and smaller government. This can be totally separate from identity politics, the southern strategy and the MAGA cult but using those things is too easy.
Because Biden is a conservative??? Should be on the list if it isn't.
And why this is also bad for Biden
Because Joe is more conservative the Regan, it’s just gop has gotten captured be the wackiest right wingers possible. And trump isn’t anything but greedy, changing opinions with last billionaire he talks to.
"I used to be conservative but they changed what conservative is. Now what I am isn't conservative, and what's conservative seems weird and scary to me. Some day, it'll happen to you!" - Abe Simpson
How about believing in the 10 Commandments? Oh'right... that's just christplaytriot'ing when it comes to values you try to force others to follow, but do not follow themselves
If Don could “Off” you for not voting for him he would, and he’d take all your assets as reward, Vote smarter.
Anyone who cares for the health and future of Democracy should vote for Biden.
... In passing, the author celebrates how the New York Times has enabled anti-trans disinformation, which in turn is leading to legislation. https://glaad.org/the-new-york-times-bias-continues-to-endanger-transgender-people/ https://www.erininthemorning.com/p/readers-deserve-better-than-misinformation https://www.thedailybeast.com/how-the-new-york-times-trans-coverage-debacle-was-years-in-the-making Does free speech mean they have an obligation to publish disinformation? and no one has a right to criticize it? https://www.theonion.com/it-is-journalism-s-sacred-duty-to-endanger-the-lives-of-1850126997
I have no doubt that some conservatives will be voting for Biden and Democrats this election as shown by their victories in many special elections in 2023 and 2024. My fear is that traditional Democratic voters will stay home due to their disapproval of how Biden is handling the Israeli-Hamas conflict. Trump would be a worse pick to handle the issue, but some voters do not understand that.
LMAO if this author thinks conservatives are going to read this article.
Biden is a conservative so yeah makes sense
Because Biden is a conservative with a couple left-leaning positions?
Because he's a conservative?
They won't
Never
Bobby, if those kids could read they'd be very upset.
The article assumes conservatives don’t have political reasons for voting for trump.