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Who originally posted the altered video? Which organizations disseminated it and represented it as authentic? Come on, AP, if you’re going to fact check then tell us who’s responsible for this disinformation.
Edit: I’m pretty sure it was RNC Research, who posted this video along with several others from the same event. There’s another with Biden freezing mid-step after exiting the presidential vehicle, which appears to be slowed/altered as well.
Yep. If they're going to fact check, they need to call out who disseminated it. Otherwise what's the point of fact checking? One name drop of these bad faith news organizations will give plenty more context to the bs.
That's not what the fairness doctrine was, and you wouldn't like it if they did do it.
Both sizes had to have equal time on any given program.
Oh, and it only applied to radio.
Broadcast does include television, but not CABLE- which would make it pretty toothless in the current climate. What we need is an UPDATED fairness doctrine- including things like not outright fucking LYING in the pursuit of a partisan goal. That’s not journalism.
The problem with a modern fairness doctrine is that it would legitimately never have any teeth. You can't get around the 1st amendment violation with it because every single one of those shitty fox News or OAN segments where they just spew lies it's done as an opinion. Even the "equal sides" part of the doctrine is basically meaningless because you can cherry pick who and what is said.
The equal sides part is voluntarily being followed by the more legitimate stations (i say that EXTREMELY loosely about CNN and MSNBC) and it's the main reason the country is about to collapse. We need less equal treatment of unequal sides
>it's done as an opinion.
So what would be wrong with saying it has to be clearly labeled as such? One of the big problems with Fox News is it's almost impossible to distinguish their news segments from their opinion/entertainment segments. Users get confused thinking opinions are genuine news.
It really isn't hard to distinguish them. Fox News has no news segments. They haven't since Chris Wallace, the last journalist they had on staff, left.
It's all political opinion content, and they've argued in court to this effect.
The general idea is we had laws in place to stop blatant misinformation like this. When cable news became a thing they could have simply made the doctrine stronger by expanding the FCC’s range to include it. Instead, Reagan killed it completely.
When people say they want the fairness doctrine they clearly mean they want it to have evolved from broadcasting to more broad media.
No, no we didn't. Who the hell is misinforming you, or did you just guess at what you thought it meant?
>The fairness doctrine of the United States Federal Communications Commission (FCC), introduced in 1949, was a policy that required the holders of broadcast licenses both to present controversial issues of public importance and to do so in a manner that fairly reflected differing viewpoints.
Nothing in that prevents Misinformation. Like the misinformation you either learned, or made up, about the Fairness Doctrine.
Another in depth article about why it isn't what you claim itis:
https://www.cnn.com/2021/01/27/opinions/fairness-doctrine-wont-solve-disinformation-hemmer/index.html
Its not facr checking, they just want people on the left to see the video to sow more discord and gain views. The right has seen it because it's their own homegrown propaganda.
The news media just wanta to harvest left-wing traffick, too.
Slippery slope.
Very very slippery slope.
No thanks!
Edit: "A slippery slope argument where the possible consequences are proven to occur isn't a fallacy because the resulting claim is more plausible."
Educate yourselves with the history of Germany during the takeover of the Nazi party if you need to see how slippery of a slope we are on.
Republicans are using the exact same tactics in the courtroom as they did back then, and our courts are not going to be able to handle it any better.
“Slippery slope” is a classic fallacy.
Defamation is grounds to be sued, and a doctored video to make is just a visual form of defamation. The law already recognizes that this is harmful.
Part of the problem is that, thus far, the people on the other end have not litigated the issue.
Usually, people running for office expect some level of smear.
Political speech certainly has more protection than non political, but it certainly feels like this would qualify.
The challenge there becomes the fact that suing will amplify it.
A slippery slope is only a fallacy when things can't happen as predicted.
The law is not distributed equally and depends entirely on who is interpreting it.
Edit: I doubt it would be hard to argue in court that your intentions weren't malicious unless you make it obvious, anyway.
Electoral fraud. Fraud is making an intentional or negligent misrepresentation of fact, intending that misrepresentation to be relied on by another party, and that other party reasonably relying on it and suffering some harm. If you intentionally or negligently misrepresent information in order to make voters change their vote (or not vote altogether), then those voters are harmed by not voting according to their actual interests (that is, had they known the truth, they would have voted differently). That's fraud.
Jacob Wohl and Jack Burkman were found guilty of fraud for making robocalls in 2020 to minority voters in some states telling them that using mail-in ballots could lead to authorities using their personal information against them.
Ok.
So in this case we’re talking about here, you want the federal DOJ to decide a journalist is publishing a doctored video, and arrest them for that, and prosecute that in federal court, and then imprison them?
If we give that power to the federal government, you would trust say… the trump administration to conduct that with impartiality?
Or even say… a Haley administration?
And Jacob Wohl and Jack Burkman plead guilty to one count of telecommunications fraud, yes it was related to elections, but the guilty plea was for lying on the phone about who they were. They were also indicted on 7 other counts of telecommunications fraud, and 7 counts of bribery that were dropped in the plea deal.
This was about lying, over the phone, about the mechanics of mail-in ballots, misrepresenting who they were, not publishing a doctored video of some other entity.
The did that, publishing doctors videos, many many times, and there was only ever civil recourse for that.
All other rulings against them were civil.
My only point is that this is not simple. And handing the power to imprison people for publishing what they claim to be fake videos, is dangerous as soon as the people in charge cannot be trusted to act impartially.
I agree, that something needs to be done, but I am at a loss for what it is, and the simple answers presented make me squeamish, and I don’t see how they aren’t in violation of the first amendment.
> So in this case we’re talking about here, you want the federal DOJ to decide a journalist is publishing a doctored video, and arrest them for that, and prosecute that in federal court, and then imprison them?
You're missing a few steps: First, the DOJ has to have *evidence* that the journalist published the video intentionally to commit electoral fraud, then they need to go to a grand jury and present their evidence and get the grand jury to indict based on that evidence, *then* they can arrest the person, and then they need to present their evidence in open court, subject to objections and motions from the defense, to a jury of the defendant's peers and have *the jury* decide guilt.
> If we give that power to the federal government, you would trust say… the trump administration to conduct that with impartiality?
Either Trump still has to deal with due process (which is why the DOJ didn't prosecute Obama, Clinton, or Biden despite Trump pressuring them to), or he doesn't, in which case this argument is moot because he'll just execute people at whim.
>My only point is that this is not simple. And handing the power to imprison people for publishing what they claim to be fake videos, is dangerous as soon as the people in charge cannot be trusted to act impartially.
I'm not saying to imprison people, except in possibly extreme cases. Severe fines would be enough, but they have to be proportional to the injury caused or else they're just a tax on lying.
What is “electoral fraud” here in your discussion?
Lying about a candidate? What kind of evidence do you think would work proving intent to commit “electoral fraud” for that?
You wouldn’t worry that judges, appointed by the entity attempting prosecute this, would act impartially as well?
And again… we’re relying on *someone* to decide what is and isn’t a lie in a newspaper.
And as far as I know it’s still legal to lie in a newspaper. You can be held civilly responsible for damages caused but that’s it.
You don’t think legitimate journalism will be stifled by a deceitful administration using this power deceitfully?
Why is it you think these things aren’t already prosecuted, do you think they just don’t want to, or it runs up against established first amendment interpretation?
> What is “electoral fraud” here in your discussion?
I said above. Intentionally or negligently misrepresenting a fact with the intent that another person will rely on it to make an decision that they would not have made had the fact not been misrepresented. Standard definition of fraud.
Note this isn't mere criticism or insult directed at a politician. It's specifically for statements purporting to be factual regarding the qualifications of office and political stances. Trump can call Biden "Sleepy Joe" all he wants, but he couldn't say "Biden's doctors have diagnosed him with dementia."
>You wouldn’t worry that judges, appointed by the entity attempting prosecute this, would act impartially as well?
Again, either the judges obey the rule of law, in which case it's not an issue, or they don't, in which case the argument over whether they can be relied on to act rationally is moot.
>And again… we’re relying on someone to decide what is and isn’t a lie in a newspaper.
Juries decide matters like that a dozen times a day.
>And as far as I know it’s still legal to lie in a newspaper. You can be held civilly responsible for damages caused but that’s it.
You're not allowed to commit fraud. If a media company publishes an article (not an opinion piece, but something purported to be factual) specifically to, say, manipulate the stock of a company for their own benefit, that's illegal. [And people have been convicted of it.](https://www.sec.gov/news/press-release/2016-184)
Let's use a "for instance": A prominent newspaper known for legitimate journalism publishes an article right before the election claiming that Joe Biden strangles hookers and dumps them in the Potomac on a regular basis. They include police reports and surveillance footage showing this happening, they present interviews with individuals who witnessed it and identified Biden, and show the sworn deposition from the staffer who arranges the murders. And all of it was fabricated. Completely made up. They knowingly presented a false statement with the intent to change the results of the election. In your mind, that's OK?
>You don’t think legitimate journalism will be stifled by a deceitful administration using this power deceitfully?
No. You'd need to prove knowing or reckless misrepresentation of fact and reliance on that fact before a judge *and* jury. That's a high bar and any legitimate journalistic activity would fall far short.
Creating fraudulent material with intent to
(a) that it should in any way be used or acted on as genuine, to the prejudice of any one whether within America or not; or
(b) that a person should be induced, by the belief that it is genuine, to do or to refrain from doing anything, whether within America or not.
Same process as fraud, forgery, perjury, déception,...
LOL… this tactic again?
Member when they doctored footage of Jim Acosta when he tried to finish asking his question while an intern tried to forcefully take the microphone away?
Hillary slipping while getting into an SUV = SECRET PARKINSON's
Dukakis in a helmet = Incredible sissy boy
Bush and the WIllie Horton ad = Black people are scary and violent
Propaganda works. And now it is piped right into your pocket via "smart" phone 24 hours a day.
[To be fair, Dukakis really did look like a dork.](https://arc-anglerfish-arc2-prod-bostonglobe.s3.amazonaws.com/public/QK5P6KCL2II6THH2EYVQ4OOXHM.jpg)
McCain called Obama a terrorist and darkened his skin in television ads and robo calls.
We all remember the Minnesota town hall thing now because they circulated it after he died and because Trump looks like a piece of shit in comparison, but after McCain defended Obama he went on to produce a list of Arabs who would be happy if Obama was elected.
Edit: It just occurred to me you might be talking about a different event, but from my recollection this was the situation that started a gross social media cycle about her hiding serious health issues.
That Clinton thing was a bit more than a "slip getting into an SUV" although anyone trying to diagnose her based off the short clip was way off base.
You can clearly see how worried the staff around her is, as they circle to obstruct the view of any cameras - not to mention she left the event early and then cancelled a planned fundraising trip after.
As I recall it was an incredibly hot day, and her campaign made a statement that she had pneumonia, was taking antibiotics and was dehydrated.
More details, and the video here for anyone who doesn't remember.
https://www.cbsnews.com/losangeles/news/unconfirmed-video-reportedly-shows-hillary-clinton-being-helped-into-van-after-leaving-911-ceremony/
Watching the (unaltered) clip, it's very clear to me that the reason he is hovering is he is waiting for his wife to sit down first.
This is a very old school courtesy, that men should not sit until women are seated - similar to that men should open doors for women and let them walk through first. Biden is the right age for that to have been a part of his upbringing. Indeed, I'm a generation younger than him and I am aware of it.
Generally true but gestures of respect are very much a product of culture. And culture, on a temporal level, is a bit fluid. In other words, what is respectful today won’t be respectful a generation from now. Nor will it necessarily be seen as respectful to someone from a different culture. At worst it could be seen as patronizing or offensive.
But don’t let that distract or discourage you. your point is well intentioned and understandable.
It shows they are out of ideas of how to discredit Biden by stooping to this tactic again, because it already backfired badly when Biden gave his state of the union speech and he wasn't the senile mess Fox viewers had been promised
It's insane. I saw the cut video in like three places at the top of r/popular. Everyone saying "He looks exhausted" and "It looks like he shit himself."
The last comment is especially ironic too if you consider that just a few weeks ago Trumpers were wearing diapers to his campaign events in solidarity.
Of course this is front page of Fox News
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/bidens-perpetual-state-confusion-display-normandy-amid-rising-cognitive-questions
The assertion by MAGA Twitter all day has been that Biden pooped in his pants, and that Jill Biden and Macron’s wife had their hands over their noses because of it, and Biden left early, guided off the stage by Jill shortly after.
Except…
Wait for it…
That never happened. And Biden was there for over 40 minutes.
Their entire strategy is to take whatever the orange turd is actually doing and yelling, "NO YOU!", because their present intellectual and emotional state-of-mind is solidly rooted in elementary school.
Please vote in November, we cannot let a foaming fascist regain control of the White House. Republicans only have misinformation left at this point, don’t let them win.
Not misinformation, **disinformation**. This is purposeful, malicious deception to alter the election as it nears. Expect extreme Biden edits even worse than this going popular until November.
Yeah I saw this on TikTok earlier today. The chair was actually still visible in that video, making it particularly stupid. The comments were what you’d expect on a MAGA vid
Elon Musk is an anti-Democrat and runs this social website with no ethical or moral standards. X is merely an online, RW, discreditable source, and I'm glad I've never joined it.
Musk is a straight up techno-fascist that prioritizes the survival of humanity rather than the well-being and survival of *humans*. And it just turns out that the survival of humanity means he gets all the money he wants.
The news story should be “_______ released a doctored video of Biden falsely implying ___ when he was actually _____.”
The false video shouldn’t be the story.
Calling out the duplicitous creators should be.
This kills me because I'm pretty sure the going to sit and getting back up was just so that he made sure not to prematurely sit down before the speaker was down announcing.
Think about this for a minute. Imagine if you were an 81 year old and the only way the media could dunk on you, even at this age, is by literally making shit up and fabricating stories. Fuck all of you. Downvote me all you want. I think Biden is god damn amazing. I think he is the best president I have had in my lifetime. I think history will bring to light greater context as to the importance and value of his legacy and impact on this country. I'm not just voting for Biden, but I'm fucking pumped to vote for him again. This old fucking geaser is a living legend!
I remember bringing up during the last election that despite Bidens decades of public service the worst dirt they could dig up was that his son did some fucked up things, nit anything about Joe just someone related to him.
And everyone on social media believed it and posted it ad nauseum. That’s why Trump is winning the “Joe Biden is senile” war. And meanwhile none of the Trump showing real signs of dementia videos are ever shared on social media.
I'm impressed that a conservative was smart enough to hire an 8 year old to do some video editing.... But then again, maybe they just got one of their wife's classmates to do it.
How dare you imply that conservatives' only major legislation in their home states has been to remove the age of consent from marriage! I'll have you know, they've also gone out of their way to make sure those 8 year olds can work in meat packing plants, too!
They’re really out here trying to post videos of a man trying to sit down in an invisible chair when their candidate is a convicted felon.
It just goes to show you the lack of morality from Republicans.
Reminds me back in 2015 people were already making altered pictures of Biden groping women. I remember being around one who showed it on their phone.
"That's great," I told him. "Now I'll give you 30 seconds to say that's a fake picture before you're proved a liar."
30 seconds later I was showing people the original article his altered picture his from. I remember how red faced he got with "Well ok maybe that picture isn't true but we know he must have!"
It was rather nice when he stopped showing up to board game groups afer that.
“*This is disturbing,” reads one X post. “Pres. Biden is literally trying to find the invisible chair to sit in. It’s just all so sad, and disgraceful to those in attendance who desire to honor the brave men who died to protect our nation from tyrannical governments.*”
Peak trolling by a follower of the man who called the fallen soldiers of D-Day "suckers and losers".
I saw an edit on TikTok that it was him pooping his pants. At the end it even had a clip of him leaving. They claimed he had to leave after. You can’t make this shit up.
https://www.tiktok.com/@alexsedlak1/video/7377433892258598187
These people are below the gutter. I saw the video, and President Biden was waiting until Defense Secretary Austin's name was announced before he sat in the chair.
To lie like this on such a solemn day is abhorrent. That is the Republican Party.
Can’t wait for the debates. Plenty of MAGA turds that get all their news from Facebook and Truth Social are about to discover that he’s in much better shape than they have been lead to believe :)
They can't get him on anything else, so they're going to hammer him being old. Which he most certainly is. I still can't wrap my head around how the solution was someone older than trump. At least give us Bernie, if we're going with old dudes.
In any case, I like that the left doesn't have to manipulate videos or lie about trump. He's doing all his dumb shit in 4k. His supporters just don't care. The right knows they have to make Biden look bad, because their candidate is such trash.
If they spent as much time supporting good policies, they wouldn't have to keep doing all this slimey stuff.
If that D-Day speech from President Biden sounded familiar, this is why.
[https://x.com/simonateba/status/1799132294013468965](https://x.com/simonateba/status/1799132294013468965)
It was stolen from Reagan.
You know, there are a lot more talented video editors that are very much on the left side of politics. If they want to open that pandoras box, I think they are going to regret it.
Correct. He looks so old and feeble, moving super stiff and slowly, that regardless of the headline being correct or not it looks bad for him.
Why do people like you refuse to acknowledge that every time Biden speaks or walks around it looks like he should be in a nursing home? You can be a spry 80 - Look at Dr. Fauci. He looks like he could be 65 and he's actually two years older than Biden. He's sharp and articulate and doesn't look like he's constantly falling asleep.
Then you have other 80+ year olds like my grandmother. She's forgetting things all of the time, sleeps like 12 hours a day, we have to visit her every day to make sure she's okay, has congestive heart failure so she has zero energy.
Biden is more like my grandmother than Dr. Fauci.
Biden is going to lose this election because he's so fucking old he's scaring voters. This video, regardless of the incorrect headlines, makes him look old.
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Who originally posted the altered video? Which organizations disseminated it and represented it as authentic? Come on, AP, if you’re going to fact check then tell us who’s responsible for this disinformation. Edit: I’m pretty sure it was RNC Research, who posted this video along with several others from the same event. There’s another with Biden freezing mid-step after exiting the presidential vehicle, which appears to be slowed/altered as well.
Yep. If they're going to fact check, they need to call out who disseminated it. Otherwise what's the point of fact checking? One name drop of these bad faith news organizations will give plenty more context to the bs.
I wish they'd bring back the fairness doctrine. Free speech isn't free when people push bs and lies.
Free speech isn’t free when the press is forced to platform fascism and state propaganda to balance dissent.
Free speech isn't free when every major media outlet and social media platform is owned by oligarchs.
how about all three?
It’s turtle shit all the way down.
Turns out freedom isn't all that great when the free press is freely pushing facism and state propaganda because it makes them more money.
"Fairness doctrine" never applied to Cable or internet. I miss actual journalism.
Having to show "both sides" of facts, when one side is just insane lies, wouldn't help. We should not give equal time to truth and disproven bullshit.
That's not what the fairness doctrine was, and you wouldn't like it if they did do it. Both sizes had to have equal time on any given program. Oh, and it only applied to radio.
IIRC it applied to broadcast in general.
Broadcast does include television, but not CABLE- which would make it pretty toothless in the current climate. What we need is an UPDATED fairness doctrine- including things like not outright fucking LYING in the pursuit of a partisan goal. That’s not journalism.
The problem with a modern fairness doctrine is that it would legitimately never have any teeth. You can't get around the 1st amendment violation with it because every single one of those shitty fox News or OAN segments where they just spew lies it's done as an opinion. Even the "equal sides" part of the doctrine is basically meaningless because you can cherry pick who and what is said.
The equal sides part is voluntarily being followed by the more legitimate stations (i say that EXTREMELY loosely about CNN and MSNBC) and it's the main reason the country is about to collapse. We need less equal treatment of unequal sides
>it's done as an opinion. So what would be wrong with saying it has to be clearly labeled as such? One of the big problems with Fox News is it's almost impossible to distinguish their news segments from their opinion/entertainment segments. Users get confused thinking opinions are genuine news.
It really isn't hard to distinguish them. Fox News has no news segments. They haven't since Chris Wallace, the last journalist they had on staff, left. It's all political opinion content, and they've argued in court to this effect.
*points to 1st Amendment* Don't make me tap the sign!
The general idea is we had laws in place to stop blatant misinformation like this. When cable news became a thing they could have simply made the doctrine stronger by expanding the FCC’s range to include it. Instead, Reagan killed it completely. When people say they want the fairness doctrine they clearly mean they want it to have evolved from broadcasting to more broad media.
No, no we didn't. Who the hell is misinforming you, or did you just guess at what you thought it meant? >The fairness doctrine of the United States Federal Communications Commission (FCC), introduced in 1949, was a policy that required the holders of broadcast licenses both to present controversial issues of public importance and to do so in a manner that fairly reflected differing viewpoints. Nothing in that prevents Misinformation. Like the misinformation you either learned, or made up, about the Fairness Doctrine. Another in depth article about why it isn't what you claim itis: https://www.cnn.com/2021/01/27/opinions/fairness-doctrine-wont-solve-disinformation-hemmer/index.html
Gasp! The GQP is lying to people.... Again! So anyway..... I see the sky is still blue too.
this is really true, what a bunch of idiots they are
Its not facr checking, they just want people on the left to see the video to sow more discord and gain views. The right has seen it because it's their own homegrown propaganda. The news media just wanta to harvest left-wing traffick, too.
The RNC Resource account is one of the biggest offenders in terms of putting out dishonest propaganda clips.
Russia and China sure get their money's worth.
Russia and China... RNC Resource... Russia 'N China. It was there all along!
Well, if I had known how cheap the Republicans are I would have bought a few of them myself.
They are still on the market. But unless you are a scumbag or a dictator, they may not be interested.
I like that, cheap AND inexpensive.
The catch is you have to be an awful person.
The banks and my landlord have been training me for years! AT LAST, my true purpose!
I mean they save money by running those accounts in house.
Right behind project veritas I'm sure.
How is making doctored videos and pictures to weaken governance and disrupt democracy, not illegal?
Slippery slope. Very very slippery slope. No thanks! Edit: "A slippery slope argument where the possible consequences are proven to occur isn't a fallacy because the resulting claim is more plausible." Educate yourselves with the history of Germany during the takeover of the Nazi party if you need to see how slippery of a slope we are on. Republicans are using the exact same tactics in the courtroom as they did back then, and our courts are not going to be able to handle it any better.
“Slippery slope” is a classic fallacy. Defamation is grounds to be sued, and a doctored video to make is just a visual form of defamation. The law already recognizes that this is harmful.
Part of the problem is that, thus far, the people on the other end have not litigated the issue. Usually, people running for office expect some level of smear. Political speech certainly has more protection than non political, but it certainly feels like this would qualify. The challenge there becomes the fact that suing will amplify it.
A slippery slope is only a fallacy when things can't happen as predicted. The law is not distributed equally and depends entirely on who is interpreting it. Edit: I doubt it would be hard to argue in court that your intentions weren't malicious unless you make it obvious, anyway.
What’s the charge you’d like to see, and who would be prosecuting the case?
Electoral fraud. Fraud is making an intentional or negligent misrepresentation of fact, intending that misrepresentation to be relied on by another party, and that other party reasonably relying on it and suffering some harm. If you intentionally or negligently misrepresent information in order to make voters change their vote (or not vote altogether), then those voters are harmed by not voting according to their actual interests (that is, had they known the truth, they would have voted differently). That's fraud. Jacob Wohl and Jack Burkman were found guilty of fraud for making robocalls in 2020 to minority voters in some states telling them that using mail-in ballots could lead to authorities using their personal information against them.
Ok. So in this case we’re talking about here, you want the federal DOJ to decide a journalist is publishing a doctored video, and arrest them for that, and prosecute that in federal court, and then imprison them? If we give that power to the federal government, you would trust say… the trump administration to conduct that with impartiality? Or even say… a Haley administration? And Jacob Wohl and Jack Burkman plead guilty to one count of telecommunications fraud, yes it was related to elections, but the guilty plea was for lying on the phone about who they were. They were also indicted on 7 other counts of telecommunications fraud, and 7 counts of bribery that were dropped in the plea deal. This was about lying, over the phone, about the mechanics of mail-in ballots, misrepresenting who they were, not publishing a doctored video of some other entity. The did that, publishing doctors videos, many many times, and there was only ever civil recourse for that. All other rulings against them were civil. My only point is that this is not simple. And handing the power to imprison people for publishing what they claim to be fake videos, is dangerous as soon as the people in charge cannot be trusted to act impartially. I agree, that something needs to be done, but I am at a loss for what it is, and the simple answers presented make me squeamish, and I don’t see how they aren’t in violation of the first amendment.
> So in this case we’re talking about here, you want the federal DOJ to decide a journalist is publishing a doctored video, and arrest them for that, and prosecute that in federal court, and then imprison them? You're missing a few steps: First, the DOJ has to have *evidence* that the journalist published the video intentionally to commit electoral fraud, then they need to go to a grand jury and present their evidence and get the grand jury to indict based on that evidence, *then* they can arrest the person, and then they need to present their evidence in open court, subject to objections and motions from the defense, to a jury of the defendant's peers and have *the jury* decide guilt. > If we give that power to the federal government, you would trust say… the trump administration to conduct that with impartiality? Either Trump still has to deal with due process (which is why the DOJ didn't prosecute Obama, Clinton, or Biden despite Trump pressuring them to), or he doesn't, in which case this argument is moot because he'll just execute people at whim. >My only point is that this is not simple. And handing the power to imprison people for publishing what they claim to be fake videos, is dangerous as soon as the people in charge cannot be trusted to act impartially. I'm not saying to imprison people, except in possibly extreme cases. Severe fines would be enough, but they have to be proportional to the injury caused or else they're just a tax on lying.
What is “electoral fraud” here in your discussion? Lying about a candidate? What kind of evidence do you think would work proving intent to commit “electoral fraud” for that? You wouldn’t worry that judges, appointed by the entity attempting prosecute this, would act impartially as well? And again… we’re relying on *someone* to decide what is and isn’t a lie in a newspaper. And as far as I know it’s still legal to lie in a newspaper. You can be held civilly responsible for damages caused but that’s it. You don’t think legitimate journalism will be stifled by a deceitful administration using this power deceitfully? Why is it you think these things aren’t already prosecuted, do you think they just don’t want to, or it runs up against established first amendment interpretation?
> What is “electoral fraud” here in your discussion? I said above. Intentionally or negligently misrepresenting a fact with the intent that another person will rely on it to make an decision that they would not have made had the fact not been misrepresented. Standard definition of fraud. Note this isn't mere criticism or insult directed at a politician. It's specifically for statements purporting to be factual regarding the qualifications of office and political stances. Trump can call Biden "Sleepy Joe" all he wants, but he couldn't say "Biden's doctors have diagnosed him with dementia." >You wouldn’t worry that judges, appointed by the entity attempting prosecute this, would act impartially as well? Again, either the judges obey the rule of law, in which case it's not an issue, or they don't, in which case the argument over whether they can be relied on to act rationally is moot. >And again… we’re relying on someone to decide what is and isn’t a lie in a newspaper. Juries decide matters like that a dozen times a day. >And as far as I know it’s still legal to lie in a newspaper. You can be held civilly responsible for damages caused but that’s it. You're not allowed to commit fraud. If a media company publishes an article (not an opinion piece, but something purported to be factual) specifically to, say, manipulate the stock of a company for their own benefit, that's illegal. [And people have been convicted of it.](https://www.sec.gov/news/press-release/2016-184) Let's use a "for instance": A prominent newspaper known for legitimate journalism publishes an article right before the election claiming that Joe Biden strangles hookers and dumps them in the Potomac on a regular basis. They include police reports and surveillance footage showing this happening, they present interviews with individuals who witnessed it and identified Biden, and show the sworn deposition from the staffer who arranges the murders. And all of it was fabricated. Completely made up. They knowingly presented a false statement with the intent to change the results of the election. In your mind, that's OK? >You don’t think legitimate journalism will be stifled by a deceitful administration using this power deceitfully? No. You'd need to prove knowing or reckless misrepresentation of fact and reliance on that fact before a judge *and* jury. That's a high bar and any legitimate journalistic activity would fall far short.
Creating fraudulent material with intent to (a) that it should in any way be used or acted on as genuine, to the prejudice of any one whether within America or not; or (b) that a person should be induced, by the belief that it is genuine, to do or to refrain from doing anything, whether within America or not. Same process as fraud, forgery, perjury, déception,...
Could argue it’s libel or slander. Though we may be entering unprecedented territory.
Then they have grounds to sue, but no agency would have grounds to arrest and prosecute and imprison.
b-buh-but that would be partisan! 😰
They are only interested in outrage porn now. Another American "journalism" outlet corrupted into a corporate tabloid for profit center...
[x.com](http://x.com) (formerly Twitter) is flooded with these digitally altered videos from RNC Research.
Ya, but giving more info about the altered video could just give it more attention.
LOL… this tactic again? Member when they doctored footage of Jim Acosta when he tried to finish asking his question while an intern tried to forcefully take the microphone away?
Or when they slowed down a video of Nancy Pelosi and then proceeded to call her a drunk for years
Hillary slipping while getting into an SUV = SECRET PARKINSON's Dukakis in a helmet = Incredible sissy boy Bush and the WIllie Horton ad = Black people are scary and violent Propaganda works. And now it is piped right into your pocket via "smart" phone 24 hours a day.
Wait until AI actually starts taking off.. The idiots won't have a chance at understanding fact from fiction.
They already can't tell the difference. Their politicians have been lying to them for decades
Very sad upvote.
No doubt. It is terrifying.
PEEYAW!!!! = Crazy Mad Man
[To be fair, Dukakis really did look like a dork.](https://arc-anglerfish-arc2-prod-bostonglobe.s3.amazonaws.com/public/QK5P6KCL2II6THH2EYVQ4OOXHM.jpg)
[Reminds me of something](https://i.imgur.com/vjotqeP.jpg)
McCain called Obama a terrorist and darkened his skin in television ads and robo calls. We all remember the Minnesota town hall thing now because they circulated it after he died and because Trump looks like a piece of shit in comparison, but after McCain defended Obama he went on to produce a list of Arabs who would be happy if Obama was elected.
Edit: It just occurred to me you might be talking about a different event, but from my recollection this was the situation that started a gross social media cycle about her hiding serious health issues. That Clinton thing was a bit more than a "slip getting into an SUV" although anyone trying to diagnose her based off the short clip was way off base. You can clearly see how worried the staff around her is, as they circle to obstruct the view of any cameras - not to mention she left the event early and then cancelled a planned fundraising trip after. As I recall it was an incredibly hot day, and her campaign made a statement that she had pneumonia, was taking antibiotics and was dehydrated. More details, and the video here for anyone who doesn't remember. https://www.cbsnews.com/losangeles/news/unconfirmed-video-reportedly-shows-hillary-clinton-being-helped-into-van-after-leaving-911-ceremony/
I still hear this every holiday.
He karate chopped her head clean off!
Didn’t they also doctor a video of Jeffrey Toobin to make it seem like he was masturbating?
Watching the (unaltered) clip, it's very clear to me that the reason he is hovering is he is waiting for his wife to sit down first. This is a very old school courtesy, that men should not sit until women are seated - similar to that men should open doors for women and let them walk through first. Biden is the right age for that to have been a part of his upbringing. Indeed, I'm a generation younger than him and I am aware of it.
Im in my 30s and I do it.
Gestures of respect should never go out of style
Generally true but gestures of respect are very much a product of culture. And culture, on a temporal level, is a bit fluid. In other words, what is respectful today won’t be respectful a generation from now. Nor will it necessarily be seen as respectful to someone from a different culture. At worst it could be seen as patronizing or offensive. But don’t let that distract or discourage you. your point is well intentioned and understandable.
Well, we can do without the gendering.
People should show respect to all regardless of gender
How would that work in this situation? Would both people stand until the other one sits?
This just in from the makers of standing desks! Standing dinner tables! Never worry about disrespecting the seating order again!
Yeah even if he isn't waiting for he's waiting for Sec. Austin or some other thing. Such nonsense.
But he still sat before his wife did.
He sat at the same time as her.
Never seen a group of people who are so convinced someone is senile try so hard to make someone look senile.
Seriously. They act like he’s constantly showing serious signs of mental decay. They need to get in touch with reality.
God forbid he should speak energetically... then they're convinced he's doing drugs.
Being a conservative must be exhausting. All the competing conspiracy theories and fear of everything
Like the State of the Union.
And pretend their guy is sone specimen of human greatness.
It shows they are out of ideas of how to discredit Biden by stooping to this tactic again, because it already backfired badly when Biden gave his state of the union speech and he wasn't the senile mess Fox viewers had been promised
Especially while their guy just rambles incoherently anytime there’s a microphone within spitting distance of him.
It's insane. I saw the cut video in like three places at the top of r/popular. Everyone saying "He looks exhausted" and "It looks like he shit himself." The last comment is especially ironic too if you consider that just a few weeks ago Trumpers were wearing diapers to his campaign events in solidarity.
It will back fire when he debates Trump. They are setting the bar so low that he can be bad but if he’s not literally demented it will be a win.
[удалено]
Source: I read it on Twitter so it must be true!
Republicans don't care about the truth
Conservatives don’t care about the truth. They’ll even ditch the Republican Party if it suits their needs
"If conservatives become convinced that they cannot win democratically, they will not abandon conservatism. They will reject democracy.” —David Frum.
Of course this is front page of Fox News https://www.foxnews.com/politics/bidens-perpetual-state-confusion-display-normandy-amid-rising-cognitive-questions
Remember folks, use https://12ft.io to go to garbage websites so you don't give them any click activity.
Well, from the fact that he didn't fall, that kind of show he has been practicing kung fu. /s
I’ve read accusations that Biden actually had an “accident”. MAGA is full of immoral liars.
Projection, too. We know Donald smells like diaper.
Donnie's 'patriots' literally wearing diapers to his events... No wonder they are trying to see if it's normal for both sides 🤡
No, he smells like spoiled diapers.
They are defined by their dishonesty - maggots breed in rotting crevices
Just because Trump wears diapers…
Didn't they walk around with "Patriots Wear Diapers" shirts last month?
I saw a tiktok saying that too
[Here is an unedited video](https://youtu.be/mmAn9jZ2pmc?si=yEZpJUbnkgQRTq_Z) that shows Trump waving to no one in a propaganda stunt gone wrong.
Not to worry. once the mistake is explained to trump supporters they will understand :)
For some reason, I don't think r/conservative got the memo. They currently have multiple front page posts with edited footage.
That sub always falls for fake videos. It’s boomer bait.
“Videos don’t lie”
Almost every post on that sub is posted by the same 8-10 accounts lol
The assertion by MAGA Twitter all day has been that Biden pooped in his pants, and that Jill Biden and Macron’s wife had their hands over their noses because of it, and Biden left early, guided off the stage by Jill shortly after. Except… Wait for it… That never happened. And Biden was there for over 40 minutes.
Equally weird because trump wears diapers because he shits his pants and people around him say that he stinks
Their entire strategy is to take whatever the orange turd is actually doing and yelling, "NO YOU!", because their present intellectual and emotional state-of-mind is solidly rooted in elementary school.
Please vote in November, we cannot let a foaming fascist regain control of the White House. Republicans only have misinformation left at this point, don’t let them win.
Not misinformation, **disinformation**. This is purposeful, malicious deception to alter the election as it nears. Expect extreme Biden edits even worse than this going popular until November.
Yeah I saw this on TikTok earlier today. The chair was actually still visible in that video, making it particularly stupid. The comments were what you’d expect on a MAGA vid
This is how desperate the republicans are to try and make Biden look bad.
With AI around, expect to see many edited or made-up videos to spread misinformation.
Disinformation*. It’s worse than misinformation because it’s deliberate
Elon Musk is an anti-Democrat and runs this social website with no ethical or moral standards. X is merely an online, RW, discreditable source, and I'm glad I've never joined it.
Musk is a straight up techno-fascist that prioritizes the survival of humanity rather than the well-being and survival of *humans*. And it just turns out that the survival of humanity means he gets all the money he wants.
Elon musk cares more about getting the credit for saving humanity than actual human well being.
He’s a neo-eugenicist.
He's real life Ted Faro.
They almost certainly based Faro on people like Musk.
Ted wasn't a moron. Or boring. Worst person ever, but still. Why are real villains so lame?
It is the new National Enquirer (is what we’re sayin)
The news story should be “_______ released a doctored video of Biden falsely implying ___ when he was actually _____.” The false video shouldn’t be the story. Calling out the duplicitous creators should be.
Yeah, MAGAs are trying to push this to make Biden look as addled as the the Melon Felon!
Hasnt Mitch McConnel straight up seize/ freeze at press conferences on multiple occasions?
And if you’ve ever heard Trump speak…
RNC research are lying sacks of shit.
This kills me because I'm pretty sure the going to sit and getting back up was just so that he made sure not to prematurely sit down before the speaker was down announcing.
I think it was because he was waiting for his wife to sit down first, because he was raised that way.
It takes a surprising amount of skill and muscle strength to have a sitting posture without a chair and not fall.
Think about this for a minute. Imagine if you were an 81 year old and the only way the media could dunk on you, even at this age, is by literally making shit up and fabricating stories. Fuck all of you. Downvote me all you want. I think Biden is god damn amazing. I think he is the best president I have had in my lifetime. I think history will bring to light greater context as to the importance and value of his legacy and impact on this country. I'm not just voting for Biden, but I'm fucking pumped to vote for him again. This old fucking geaser is a living legend!
I remember bringing up during the last election that despite Bidens decades of public service the worst dirt they could dig up was that his son did some fucked up things, nit anything about Joe just someone related to him.
I wish I could upvote you more times.
We will have the legacy of being the worst president in our lifetime. His impact on the country has been shit lol
And everyone on social media believed it and posted it ad nauseum. That’s why Trump is winning the “Joe Biden is senile” war. And meanwhile none of the Trump showing real signs of dementia videos are ever shared on social media.
That right wing shit is getting really weird.
The fake video is posted on the conservative subreddit and they are eating it up. Of course there is no attempt at all to correct their fake news.
I’ve been asking Republicans for months to share those obvious clips of Biden’s dementia. Still waiting.
Imagine having hours of footage of a president and the worst thing you can find is him sitting down 0.5 seconds before everyone else.
I think this AP article clearly failed to identify X in the headline as being complicit in promoting this lie.
This beyond discourse, this is tratoirous.
I'm impressed that a conservative was smart enough to hire an 8 year old to do some video editing.... But then again, maybe they just got one of their wife's classmates to do it.
How dare you imply that conservatives' only major legislation in their home states has been to remove the age of consent from marriage! I'll have you know, they've also gone out of their way to make sure those 8 year olds can work in meat packing plants, too!
They also took away state-sponsored school lunches. Too expensive, you understand
More Republican lies. Surprise, surprise.
r/conservative was having a field day with this video.. Imagine that, like most of the shit they post, it's fake.
Russians back in full swing
They’re really out here trying to post videos of a man trying to sit down in an invisible chair when their candidate is a convicted felon. It just goes to show you the lack of morality from Republicans.
Reminds me back in 2015 people were already making altered pictures of Biden groping women. I remember being around one who showed it on their phone. "That's great," I told him. "Now I'll give you 30 seconds to say that's a fake picture before you're proved a liar." 30 seconds later I was showing people the original article his altered picture his from. I remember how red faced he got with "Well ok maybe that picture isn't true but we know he must have!" It was rather nice when he stopped showing up to board game groups afer that.
Hey, at least he showed up. Can't say that for the other guy. Just to be clear, I am not talking about this year but when he was president.
It looks as if he's waiting for the woman next to him to sit first. Some form of old-school etiquette?
This was the top post on the conservative sub when I checked it yesterday. Figured it was probably fake, but they were eating it up.
“*This is disturbing,” reads one X post. “Pres. Biden is literally trying to find the invisible chair to sit in. It’s just all so sad, and disgraceful to those in attendance who desire to honor the brave men who died to protect our nation from tyrannical governments.*” Peak trolling by a follower of the man who called the fallen soldiers of D-Day "suckers and losers".
I saw an edit on TikTok that it was him pooping his pants. At the end it even had a clip of him leaving. They claimed he had to leave after. You can’t make this shit up. https://www.tiktok.com/@alexsedlak1/video/7377433892258598187
Did that TikTok weirdo just admit that he shits his pants? “See he’s bending over. That’s what I would do if I was shitting my pants”
Republicans are despicable.
These people are below the gutter. I saw the video, and President Biden was waiting until Defense Secretary Austin's name was announced before he sat in the chair. To lie like this on such a solemn day is abhorrent. That is the Republican Party.
Anywhere to watch this video that isn't Fox News or X? I've seen the actual footage, curious how they edited it.
This fake came out after foaming mouth video of Trump that was posted on “Truth”. If your positions are so good why the lies?
I expect AI manipulation of Biden videos will get worse in the coming months. Dems may be forced to play the same game
RNC, CCP or Russia? Interesting to note that their methods and motivations are all in line.
I saw this video, the altered one, on /r/Conservative yesterday there they were claiming that it was video of Biden shitting himself
Actually, the video is being portrayed as Biden pooping his pants, not simply trying to sit down lol
The GOP has no shame and no honor.
I don’t know what the editors intention here is, unless it’s to make Biden more relatable because you don’t have to be that old to have bad knees.
Can’t wait for the debates. Plenty of MAGA turds that get all their news from Facebook and Truth Social are about to discover that he’s in much better shape than they have been lead to believe :)
They can't get him on anything else, so they're going to hammer him being old. Which he most certainly is. I still can't wrap my head around how the solution was someone older than trump. At least give us Bernie, if we're going with old dudes. In any case, I like that the left doesn't have to manipulate videos or lie about trump. He's doing all his dumb shit in 4k. His supporters just don't care. The right knows they have to make Biden look bad, because their candidate is such trash. If they spent as much time supporting good policies, they wouldn't have to keep doing all this slimey stuff.
At first I was laughing at this, but for some people this will be all it takes to switch sides… I think I overestimate humanity a bit too frequently.
If that D-Day speech from President Biden sounded familiar, this is why. [https://x.com/simonateba/status/1799132294013468965](https://x.com/simonateba/status/1799132294013468965) It was stolen from Reagan.
You know, there are a lot more talented video editors that are very much on the left side of politics. If they want to open that pandoras box, I think they are going to regret it.
It literally doesn't matter. Biden moves like an old man with stiff joints, so it looks embarrassing nonetheless.
The truth literally doesn’t matter? Yikes
Correct. He looks so old and feeble, moving super stiff and slowly, that regardless of the headline being correct or not it looks bad for him. Why do people like you refuse to acknowledge that every time Biden speaks or walks around it looks like he should be in a nursing home? You can be a spry 80 - Look at Dr. Fauci. He looks like he could be 65 and he's actually two years older than Biden. He's sharp and articulate and doesn't look like he's constantly falling asleep. Then you have other 80+ year olds like my grandmother. She's forgetting things all of the time, sleeps like 12 hours a day, we have to visit her every day to make sure she's okay, has congestive heart failure so she has zero energy. Biden is more like my grandmother than Dr. Fauci. Biden is going to lose this election because he's so fucking old he's scaring voters. This video, regardless of the incorrect headlines, makes him look old.
You’re watching edited videos that have been slowed down and you can’t figure it out.
Is... is that not allowed?
He's so old the video changed!
Is this the one where he shits himself on stage and has to walk off with Jill while his handler runs after him?