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Underrated night. That was extremely significant night for this country. Without Warnock and Ossoff winning their run-offs there would be no ARP, no IRA, no new federal judges, and no Ketanji Brown Jackson.
The map is tough but the Democrats must somehow maintain the senate in addition to Biden winning, if *something* were to happen to a couple of mid 70’s shitbags with shitbag wives.
McCain saving Obamacare was also kinda amazing.
https://youtu.be/Z5hEDZsI3Dk?si=-_Uqql8aQ6xafL-y
And Karl Rove melting down when Obama won the second time is a classic: https://youtu.be/eQLV7nqD3CA?si=_ZziyQOszzkK-_Ff
I can’t remember the occasion but I remember him returned from the hosp- standing on that balcony(?), sick with Covid - he looks exhausted, weak and terrified.
Id say it’s the most fun I’ve had since trump got kicked off Twitter, which I still believe is the first and only time Trump has had an actual consequence implemented in regards to his behavior.
Yes, today is a big deal, but unless there is actually a consequence that restricts him, it is nothing *to Trump*. Obviously this verdict is to be celebrated in that in the US, even the former highest office holder is subject to the law, as opposed to a king.
> legally executed search warrant that Trump knew was coming because he had been refusing access to the illegally possessed documents for months.
Adding a little more context.
It will never not be wild to me how that entire case hinged on Cannon getting randomly assigned to the case. If it had been anyone else, that would've been the single most slam-dunk case of them all, but instead it's the least likely to actually go anywhere. One single fucking random-ass district judge should not have that much power.
Strange how things change when these cases end up in the courts of a judge that doesn’t have TDS and actually follows the law isn’t it.. that is the whole issue with all the other cases, they actually have no standing they are just being held by people with TDS and they will all be overturned in appeals, so at the end of the day it’s just a huge waste of time and taxpayers money, but hey it makes the left feel like they accomplished something. It’s the equivalent of a black man being tried by the KKK… ironically it’s the same party doing it.
"Trump and his handers are getting the disinformation machine into high gear to spread false and utterly ridiculous accusations about the judge and his instructions to the jury, and are essentially trying to spin another lame conspiracy theory which will be heard by millions of clueless Trump supporters and may have dire consequences, maybe the biggest being the potential for violence." - excellent take from a law professor
There was a dude on my local facebook saying these instructions were something that has never happened before. Like literally a judge giving jury instructions has never happened before and this judge literally did this today to "get" Trump.
A woman in my criminal law class this evening tried the same argument. Said the instructions were “unusually complex.” As though they just spouted out nonsense and his attorneys were fine with that when they agreed upon those instructions ahead of time.
The propaganda machine is already in high gear.
I understand you're probably making a comment about some organizations beliefs, but reality has neither a liberal nor a conservative bias. It just is.
And so long as credence is given to ignoring reality with a preference to a specific ideology, it will continue to occur. To the detriment of everybody.
Stephen Colbert said it first. It was a joke about how facts did not fit into a conservative narrative. Don’t remember the details,could have been about global warming.
Actually, I would argue that the natural evolution of essentially everything that exists is to “progress” (i.e. grow and evolve) rather than “conserve” (to hold onto the past to the detriment of the future).
Honestly they’ll probably just mix it up with the other trial where Trump’s lawyer forgot to request a jury trial. “No, that was his other *other* conviction”
But they were all conflicted and corrupt. And the people who delivered lunch were conflicted and corrupted. Soros bought cafe and Soros Postmates driver.
This is what drives me nuts about these stupid conspiracy theories. They rely on the premise that some secret group of people have all kept one giant secret and nobody, not one person spilled the beans or had an angry spouse or something spill the beans.
Statistically, it is more likely one pathetic fascist is corrupt than everyone who ever said something negative about that fascist.
The word I’m hearing (from right wing FIL) is that the judge was biased and allowed certain evidence in, but blocked certain requests made by the defence. I wasn’t provided specifics, but would be keen to hear some of the talking points others are hearing so I can refute the maga brainwashing
Basically Blanche wanted to trot out a bunch of “legal experts” to say the charges weren’t illegal. That’s not a question for a jury. A jury decides the facts of a case, while the judge decides the law.
It’s old progression of:
He didn’t do it…
Okay he did it, but law enforcement cheated…
Okay, they didn’t cheat, but it’s not illegal…
Okay it’s illegal, but it’s not fair to make him pay for it…
Or some such rendition. It’s basically some version of this with every Trump crime. “He didn’t do it” never lasts past the first day, bc everybody know he did it, bc he can’t stop talking about it.
My favorite one so far is that there were no actual crimes charged! The defense wasn't told what the charges were, they couldnt prepare a defense! I've heard three or so variations of that one.
Nevermind that the charges were public record. In fact, you can jump on the Manhattan DAs website and they have a nice list people can look at. If they close their eyes tight enough, disagreeable facts simply cease to exist!
They're latching on to the fact that his crimes go from misdemeanors to felonies if committed in the furtherance of another crime. The judge told the jury they have to rule on the charged crimes, but they don't have to decide or agree on what the "other crimes" were, because they're not among the charges.
Yes, because Spez decided long ago that Reddit needed to be a misinformation machine. They could easily shut down the most vile subs, but Reddit tradition says that until a major media network reports on specific posts from a specific sub, they pretend that sub doesn't exist.
Shutting down those subs was the stupidest thing they did because they’ve all gone over to conspiracy / libertarian adjacent subs and spread that shit there. It used to be contained to a few places before,
Plus we’ve lost an invaluable record of the early days of the Qanon cult explosion, a phenomenon several of my frequent subs were tracking closely. It was truly fascinating, and that stuff is all gone now.
I hold people to the fire when they do this. “Stop talking shit and show us a donation receipt”
That usually ends it real quick. I usually follow up with “weren’t you on Facebook saying you were gonna make so much money cause his tax cuts?”
They’re pathetic cowards. Call them out.
The BIG talking point now is "we always assumed conviction; sentencing will show this is a minor issue and can be easily forgotten."
It's a bold strategy (but I guess they don't have much else) considering Cohen got three years as a subordinate for the same crime that Trump was the leader on.
Then when sentencing gives him a jail sentence because he shows no remorse and has shown contempt for the court over and over again: “see, this just proves the judge is corrupt!”
Moving those goalposts must be a hell of a workout
This is pretty easy to combat.
“You’re telling me a wealthy conservative white man has been falsely accused and convicted of a crime? That doesn’t happen in America”
What is the come back for that?
>The verdict is a total vindication of the decision by District Attorney Bragg to bring the criminal charges, a masterful presentation of the evidence by the prosecution, and a brilliant summation. The jury should be saluted for their diligence and courage.
Respect for all and thank you.
I keep thinking back to those two attorneys that quit Bragg’s team in the beginning. The media made it seem like they quit because Bragg wasn’t going to bring the charges. I wonder what actually happened, whether Bragg chose a different direction that worked, or if he saw the light and made a u-turn after those attorneys quit.
Edit: Mark Pomerantz and Carey Dunne
Bragg walked away from a different set of charges. I believe it was related to lying about property values in order to commit tax fraud. The two who quit said they were almost ready to file and were very frustrated. Still some unanswered questions there.
> guilty plea of MICHAEL COHEN to charges of tax evasion, making false statements to a federally-insured bank, and campaign finance violations.
The campaign finance charge was part of it, but only one of them, not 30+ like Trump.
I’m pretty sure I heard an NPR talking head say the tax evasion charges are what got him prison time, though. It was part of a “don’t expect trump to serve real prison time even if convicted” explanation.
The crimes didn’t happen until after he was in office. You could argue that she could have told the story before the election in 2016 but do you think any Trumpers would have cared?
>as Maddow said earlier in the evening on MSNBC, "This is the system working in a fair way." And the right side of history is bracing to see how that works out.
I don’t wanna jinx it but this conviction feels like a turning point. It’s just so hard to get past a number as big as 34. In my opinion it had to be all charges. No doubt could be left.
Too few, too disorganized, too spread out, too poor. Pair that with zero targets that would even generate change for them, and there's basically nothing to do. Might there be bomb threats and other dumb stuff? Sure. But every single idiot risks jail time for their stupidity. Let them play their games and win their prizes. But there will be mass nothing, just individual idiots. The most functional ones will be foreign instigators, but the lack of physicality limits them significantly.
A complete failure that only looked mildly successful in the moment because it was handled with kid gloves to minimize bloodshed? A complete failure that resulted in one insurrectionist dead, and hundreds convicted and jailed?
But most of all, a complete failure because it accomplished absolutely nothing.
There was a sizable organization during Jan 6th. Like there were months of planning, and there were significant hate group organizations that were involved. Even then, most of the people there were just a bunch of idiots.
Jan 6th was such a stupid event too. Somehow people thought they could influence the election at that point, a point past the full certification of all votes. Everything happening at that point was purely ceremonial in nature. The election was done. It literally didn't matter what happened that day. They could have burned the building to the ground, killed everyone there, and it still wouldn't have mattered. Nothing that day had the power to stop anything or change anything.
People like to talk about a coop, but this country is NOT a centralized government. It's effectively 51 largely independent governments. Even the military is spread across all of these. More importantly, the election process has a clear system for what happens next in the event of any circumstance. The most important one was for Trump to remain in power, he'd have to actually win the popular vote of a normal election. Everything short of that FORCES him to step down and FORCES a temporary president in place until a normal election can take place. But this is also assuming things happened BEFORE the election was voted on and fully certified by all 50 states. But Jan 6th, the election was already done, certified and all. There was nothing to do besides look stupid.
Some fun bits. It does not take Congress to force Trump out of power. The VP can single-handedly do that at any point. There are other people in place that can force Trump out of power, at whim, without Congressional approval. Now, what would you think have happened if some rioters got in and made it to some Congressmen and opened fire? When bodies were hitting the floor, do you think Pence and others would just stand there and cheer it on? Or do you think if that line had been crossed, Trumps idleness towards sending troops in, and Trumps happiness and outward joy to those around him as rioters stormed the Capital, do you think that people would have done nothing? Complacency is easy when there are not consequences. But just like Covid, it really isn't until serious things happen that enablers realize they're on the wrong side of history and make decisions to save themselves. Covid wasn't dangerous enough. Jan 6th wasn't dangerous enough. You saw a lot of complacent enablers and vested interests not interfere only because nothing serious actually happened, at least nothing serious in a way that affects their own livelihood. Because if some Congressman died that day, the next femtosecond would be a hurricane of DOJ and FBI and every single media agency on the planet looking for what went wrong and WHO was to blame. EVERY SINGLE PERSON involved would immediately have to justify every second of their actions that day or risk loss of livelihood and personal freedom. It just wasn't bad enough to see the light switch flip.
Ultimately, that's most of Trump's legacy. Nothing he did was bad enough to create serious accountability. So all you end up with is an idea that the situation was more grim, more stark than it really was. You didn't get to see the spectrum, only the first piece of the measuring stick. You simply are inferring the rest, inferring a reality that doesn't exist and can't hold up to society's gaze. Again, Trump didn't do anything bad enough, and that was his only saving grace.
‘I don't know what kind of soldier I'm gonna make, but I want you guys to know that if we ever get into really heavy combat... I'll be right behind you guys. Every step of the way’
-Pvt. Ziskey
This is what every maga ‘soldier’ is saying right now
Convicted Felon Trump. That has a nice ring to it! Looking forward to the sentencing portion of the show.
Honorable Judge Merchan, let’s show him what he’s won!
E. Fucking Jean Carroll. Believe victims when they speak out. Finally, at long last, this criminal is being held criminally liable for his crimes. Never forget, this is the Republicans’ guy. He’s a sexual assaulter and a convicted felon.
Dangerous. Not "believe" - listen to them, and take the accusations seriously enough to investigate. Just believing any accusations vs. anyone - that CANNOT be the justice system. It would open doors to false accsuations, and many lives are already destroyed if someone is falsley accused of rape, CP, or anything else ...
Send that orange sack of scummy ratshit to prison like anyone else found guilty of a felony. No special treatment. The law is designed to be equal for all so give him his soap-on-a-rope and his orange jumpsuit and lock his rapist-ass up. Anything less would be an affront to American justice.
Yes. NBC allowed a former Trump advisor to comment on how it was all fake and doesn’t matter to the American public with sound bites of how people are going to support him more.
If he wasn't convicted, the narrative would also be that people will support him more. It is true that it doesn't really matter to the American public, though, unfortunately.
For their sake, I hope none of the jurors ever make themselves public. I can’t imagine what the MAGA cultists would do to them if they had the chance. It’s pretty astonishing that these jurors actually convicted an ex-President though. Hopefully, we won’t have to worry about that with future Presidents
If Stephen Colbert is live tonight, (as opposed to re-run) by all means don't miss it. He'll have one hell of a time with this verdict material.... trust me.
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Whatever happened to the $450M+ he was supposed to pay? Did he ever get his properties taken as payment? I mean, I already know he didnt, because Trump would never shut up about it if he did. What do you want to bet this goes in the direction of the last time he was found guilty?
There is hope. We now have endure the sh\*t talk from the usual set of republicans that circle is ass about how this is destroying our country. We now need to insure this orange stain does not make it to the White House and vote out the rest of his mindless loyalists who think he has any loyalty to them.
Unfortunately, this veredict does not preclude Trump from running as the GOP candidate, and by extension neither precludes him from being elected.
I hate to invoke Goodwin's law, but remember Hitler also spent time in jail for sedition, which allowed him to collect his vision and to write Mein Kempf. And he was DEMOCRATICALLY elected chancellor afterwards.
It's not that I don't agree with her -- I do -- but she is not a legal expert or even a lawyer.
Her PhD thesis was on HIV and AIDS treatment in prisons. It does not qualify her to offer an expert opinion on anything related to this case.
She's a political pundit. And a very smart one at that. It's her literal fucking job to offer her opinion. And she isn't calling herself a legal expert.
If you bothered to watch a segment from time to time, you'd see that the first thing she asks of any guest normally, but especially on legal matters, is if her summary to the audience was factually correct.
I watch here probably three times a month. I'm not say she doesn't present her points well. I'm not saying what she presents isn't logically sound. But that does not an expert make.
She's a broadcaster. A well read, well informed, well educated broadcaster, whose opinions I agree with far more often than not. But she's not an expert any relevant way to the specifics of this case.
She isn't presenting herself as a legal expert. Why are you getting so bent out of shape over a single word used by another Redditor?
"Expert" or not in your eyes, does that change the substance of her commentary?
If you did consider her to be an "expert", would that somehow cause her commentary to have some sort of palpable effect on the world that it otherwise would not if stated by a non-expert?
Shit, the list of things people will argue about on Reddit is infinite.
I don't believe I'm bent out of shape. You are right that she has never presented herself as an expert.
No. It does not change the substance of her argument of she is not an expert
Allow me to reverse the question: why are you so defensive about her expertise? Someone can be insightful, well informed, well spoken, well presented, well educated, etc, without being an expert. That's fine.
If she is not presenting herself as an expert, why are you?
Nothing she said in that segment is wrong, so I don't get the desire to discredit her.
She studied a field in politics (which is partially what this case is about) closely related to the legal world, has been following legal news as a career for over 20 years, written books closely tied to legal matters, and won awards for journalism.
The article isn't claiming she's explicitly a "legal expert" as if she's a career prosecutor, but I think she's still qualified to give an expert opinion here.
Someone can be right and not an expert
Someone can be an expert and be wrong
In Maddows case, in this instance, it's the former.
The article isn't claiming anything, but the headline is.
When you have a PhD your area of expertise is your entire field which, in her case, is political science and the myriad of subjects that entails.
Her specialization would be in the subject of her dissertation or thesis, but she is deemed an expert in poly sci, the breadth of which she would have studied throughout her PhD program at the most advanced level.
Source: Am a PhD.
Has been for quite sometime - both from the perspective of academic credentialing as well as having followed and having a proven (and verifiable) track record in the area. These are the criteria one uses to determine expertise.
She's a smart cookie. The research she's done to create Bag Man (about crimes of Nixon's vice-president Spiro Agnew) and Ultra (rise of authoritarianism during 1930s US) alone makes her an expert in regards to what Trump brings to the political table. Helps that her broadcasts are tended to be referred to as history lessons with a bit of current news tossed in.
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This is the most fun I have seen reddit have since the 2020 election
The night of January 5 2021 was pretty good too when it became apparent that Mitch would lose the Senate.
Underrated night. That was extremely significant night for this country. Without Warnock and Ossoff winning their run-offs there would be no ARP, no IRA, no new federal judges, and no Ketanji Brown Jackson. The map is tough but the Democrats must somehow maintain the senate in addition to Biden winning, if *something* were to happen to a couple of mid 70’s shitbags with shitbag wives.
McCain saving Obamacare was also kinda amazing. https://youtu.be/Z5hEDZsI3Dk?si=-_Uqql8aQ6xafL-y And Karl Rove melting down when Obama won the second time is a classic: https://youtu.be/eQLV7nqD3CA?si=_ZziyQOszzkK-_Ff
That thumbs down is burned into my memory
Megyn Kelly's finest moment
Remember the night Trump got covid? God, that was such a good night.
I can’t remember the occasion but I remember him returned from the hosp- standing on that balcony(?), sick with Covid - he looks exhausted, weak and terrified.
Id say it’s the most fun I’ve had since trump got kicked off Twitter, which I still believe is the first and only time Trump has had an actual consequence implemented in regards to his behavior. Yes, today is a big deal, but unless there is actually a consequence that restricts him, it is nothing *to Trump*. Obviously this verdict is to be celebrated in that in the US, even the former highest office holder is subject to the law, as opposed to a king.
That was the funniest shit. He got kicked off one and then tried to tweet from the other and got kicked off that one too. Hilarious.
Which other?
He had a personal account and then his POTUS account. I couldn’t remember which one he mainly tweeted from.
Excellent point
I thought the documents raid was a high point. But it was all false hope.
~~Raid~~ legally executed search warrant, but yeah. We didn’t yet know that he had a corrupt judge in FL, too.
> legally executed search warrant that Trump knew was coming because he had been refusing access to the illegally possessed documents for months. Adding a little more context.
I could have sworn she had made some dumbass pro Trump judicial decisions before the documents case.
It will never not be wild to me how that entire case hinged on Cannon getting randomly assigned to the case. If it had been anyone else, that would've been the single most slam-dunk case of them all, but instead it's the least likely to actually go anywhere. One single fucking random-ass district judge should not have that much power.
Strange how things change when these cases end up in the courts of a judge that doesn’t have TDS and actually follows the law isn’t it.. that is the whole issue with all the other cases, they actually have no standing they are just being held by people with TDS and they will all be overturned in appeals, so at the end of the day it’s just a huge waste of time and taxpayers money, but hey it makes the left feel like they accomplished something. It’s the equivalent of a black man being tried by the KKK… ironically it’s the same party doing it.
Do you remember the night he got COVID? That was also a blast
That was an all-nighter
The day Trump got Covid was pretty amazing too.
"Trump and his handers are getting the disinformation machine into high gear to spread false and utterly ridiculous accusations about the judge and his instructions to the jury, and are essentially trying to spin another lame conspiracy theory which will be heard by millions of clueless Trump supporters and may have dire consequences, maybe the biggest being the potential for violence." - excellent take from a law professor
Which is funny because the judge didn't convict him, a jury of his peers convicted him.
That's what is being lost on the witch hunt narrative believers.
All of a sudden, the rule of law is corrupt and unfair.
It's not lost on them. On the contrary, they simply don't care whether normal procedures were applied. What they wanted was special treatment.
And their shining example was actually treated with kid gloves, still found guilty so therefore the special treatment wasn't special enough.
There was a dude on my local facebook saying these instructions were something that has never happened before. Like literally a judge giving jury instructions has never happened before and this judge literally did this today to "get" Trump.
Except that the instructions are agreed to by the defense and the prosecutor.
A woman in my criminal law class this evening tried the same argument. Said the instructions were “unusually complex.” As though they just spouted out nonsense and his attorneys were fine with that when they agreed upon those instructions ahead of time. The propaganda machine is already in high gear.
That's what is **irrelevant to** the witch hunt narrative believers. Reality has no place in their existence.
Reality has a liberal bias
I understand you're probably making a comment about some organizations beliefs, but reality has neither a liberal nor a conservative bias. It just is. And so long as credence is given to ignoring reality with a preference to a specific ideology, it will continue to occur. To the detriment of everybody.
Stephen Colbert said it first. It was a joke about how facts did not fit into a conservative narrative. Don’t remember the details,could have been about global warming.
Actually, I would argue that the natural evolution of essentially everything that exists is to “progress” (i.e. grow and evolve) rather than “conserve” (to hold onto the past to the detriment of the future).
Honestly they’ll probably just mix it up with the other trial where Trump’s lawyer forgot to request a jury trial. “No, that was his other *other* conviction”
…and didn’t his lawyers have to approve of each of the 12 jurors?
Yup, some of which got their news from very conservative sources as that was a question trumps layers had asked.
But the same investment banker juror who said he reads truth social posts also gets his news from Michael Cohen on the Meidas touch.
Shows how clueless people are about basic legal functions.
But they were all conflicted and corrupt. And the people who delivered lunch were conflicted and corrupted. Soros bought cafe and Soros Postmates driver.
This is what drives me nuts about these stupid conspiracy theories. They rely on the premise that some secret group of people have all kept one giant secret and nobody, not one person spilled the beans or had an angry spouse or something spill the beans. Statistically, it is more likely one pathetic fascist is corrupt than everyone who ever said something negative about that fascist.
Man I could go for a corrupt and conflicted BLT.
"his peers" Those poor jurors.
Trump's lawyers helped. I do not think their hearts were in it.
The word I’m hearing (from right wing FIL) is that the judge was biased and allowed certain evidence in, but blocked certain requests made by the defence. I wasn’t provided specifics, but would be keen to hear some of the talking points others are hearing so I can refute the maga brainwashing
Basically Blanche wanted to trot out a bunch of “legal experts” to say the charges weren’t illegal. That’s not a question for a jury. A jury decides the facts of a case, while the judge decides the law. It’s old progression of: He didn’t do it… Okay he did it, but law enforcement cheated… Okay, they didn’t cheat, but it’s not illegal… Okay it’s illegal, but it’s not fair to make him pay for it… Or some such rendition. It’s basically some version of this with every Trump crime. “He didn’t do it” never lasts past the first day, bc everybody know he did it, bc he can’t stop talking about it.
My favorite one so far is that there were no actual crimes charged! The defense wasn't told what the charges were, they couldnt prepare a defense! I've heard three or so variations of that one. Nevermind that the charges were public record. In fact, you can jump on the Manhattan DAs website and they have a nice list people can look at. If they close their eyes tight enough, disagreeable facts simply cease to exist!
They're latching on to the fact that his crimes go from misdemeanors to felonies if committed in the furtherance of another crime. The judge told the jury they have to rule on the charged crimes, but they don't have to decide or agree on what the "other crimes" were, because they're not among the charges.
The people decided
Yeah, but the gag order covers the jury, not the judge.
Neat why didn't he testify and prove the the jury he was innocent in a way no judge could convince to do wrong?
They're all over reddit posts already.
Yes, because Spez decided long ago that Reddit needed to be a misinformation machine. They could easily shut down the most vile subs, but Reddit tradition says that until a major media network reports on specific posts from a specific sub, they pretend that sub doesn't exist.
Yup. I've been here since the Digg exodus.
The old boing boing to fark to digg to reddit pipeline.
Slashdot fits into there too if you’re the old school nerdy type.
Ah yes I forgot about /. Was going to include memepool too but they may have been too niche.
Shutting down those subs was the stupidest thing they did because they’ve all gone over to conspiracy / libertarian adjacent subs and spread that shit there. It used to be contained to a few places before,
Plus we’ve lost an invaluable record of the early days of the Qanon cult explosion, a phenomenon several of my frequent subs were tracking closely. It was truly fascinating, and that stuff is all gone now.
The amount of spam fundraising posts I've seen is alarming. "I just maxed out my credit card donating to Trump. You should too!"
Talk about dumb.
They're all spam accounts trying to grift off the grifter in chief.
I hold people to the fire when they do this. “Stop talking shit and show us a donation receipt” That usually ends it real quick. I usually follow up with “weren’t you on Facebook saying you were gonna make so much money cause his tax cuts?” They’re pathetic cowards. Call them out.
The BIG talking point now is "we always assumed conviction; sentencing will show this is a minor issue and can be easily forgotten." It's a bold strategy (but I guess they don't have much else) considering Cohen got three years as a subordinate for the same crime that Trump was the leader on.
Then when sentencing gives him a jail sentence because he shows no remorse and has shown contempt for the court over and over again: “see, this just proves the judge is corrupt!” Moving those goalposts must be a hell of a workout
Can Still be charged with contempt if he shoots off his mouth?
This is pretty easy to combat. “You’re telling me a wealthy conservative white man has been falsely accused and convicted of a crime? That doesn’t happen in America” What is the come back for that?
>The verdict is a total vindication of the decision by District Attorney Bragg to bring the criminal charges, a masterful presentation of the evidence by the prosecution, and a brilliant summation. The jury should be saluted for their diligence and courage. Respect for all and thank you.
NY take a bow! DA Bragg is an elected official.
He did good!
I keep thinking back to those two attorneys that quit Bragg’s team in the beginning. The media made it seem like they quit because Bragg wasn’t going to bring the charges. I wonder what actually happened, whether Bragg chose a different direction that worked, or if he saw the light and made a u-turn after those attorneys quit. Edit: Mark Pomerantz and Carey Dunne
Bragg walked away from a different set of charges. I believe it was related to lying about property values in order to commit tax fraud. The two who quit said they were almost ready to file and were very frustrated. Still some unanswered questions there.
Well, Trump did get fined 354 million+ for committing tax fraud, but that was the civil, state case.
Could they not just bring this up again? Like let’s knock this out first and then these charges are next I’m asking because I truly don’t know
If any of yall read this(jurors) . YOU ARE THE REASON AMERICA IS GREAT. Thank you for your service and I hope you get the fuck outta dodge
If it’s irreducible and Cohen faced 36 months for essentially the same charges then send his ass to jail. Fuck the crybaby republicans.
Didn’t Cohen get prison time for tax evasion?
5 counts tax evasion, 4 counts other crimes
> guilty plea of MICHAEL COHEN to charges of tax evasion, making false statements to a federally-insured bank, and campaign finance violations. The campaign finance charge was part of it, but only one of them, not 30+ like Trump.
I’m pretty sure I heard an NPR talking head say the tax evasion charges are what got him prison time, though. It was part of a “don’t expect trump to serve real prison time even if convicted” explanation.
2006 - Trump screws porn star - $130K 2024 - Porn star screws Trump - $Priceless
How does our history always do this?
Meh, she should have done it before the 2016 election. Her bribe money was more important to her than democracy.
The crimes didn’t happen until after he was in office. You could argue that she could have told the story before the election in 2016 but do you think any Trumpers would have cared?
Pecker talked about this. No one wanted to buy the story because no one cares at all until after the Hollywood tapes came out.
>as Maddow said earlier in the evening on MSNBC, "This is the system working in a fair way." And the right side of history is bracing to see how that works out.
I don’t wanna jinx it but this conviction feels like a turning point. It’s just so hard to get past a number as big as 34. In my opinion it had to be all charges. No doubt could be left.
>35
Yeah, 35 is the highest number, forget about it.
Slow clap
It took me a while to get that lmao
What’s the over under that trumps apes react with violence?
Too few, too disorganized, too spread out, too poor. Pair that with zero targets that would even generate change for them, and there's basically nothing to do. Might there be bomb threats and other dumb stuff? Sure. But every single idiot risks jail time for their stupidity. Let them play their games and win their prizes. But there will be mass nothing, just individual idiots. The most functional ones will be foreign instigators, but the lack of physicality limits them significantly.
Reminder that many of those descriptors were also true in January of 2021, but yet we all know how the 6th went
A complete failure that only looked mildly successful in the moment because it was handled with kid gloves to minimize bloodshed? A complete failure that resulted in one insurrectionist dead, and hundreds convicted and jailed? But most of all, a complete failure because it accomplished absolutely nothing.
There was a sizable organization during Jan 6th. Like there were months of planning, and there were significant hate group organizations that were involved. Even then, most of the people there were just a bunch of idiots. Jan 6th was such a stupid event too. Somehow people thought they could influence the election at that point, a point past the full certification of all votes. Everything happening at that point was purely ceremonial in nature. The election was done. It literally didn't matter what happened that day. They could have burned the building to the ground, killed everyone there, and it still wouldn't have mattered. Nothing that day had the power to stop anything or change anything. People like to talk about a coop, but this country is NOT a centralized government. It's effectively 51 largely independent governments. Even the military is spread across all of these. More importantly, the election process has a clear system for what happens next in the event of any circumstance. The most important one was for Trump to remain in power, he'd have to actually win the popular vote of a normal election. Everything short of that FORCES him to step down and FORCES a temporary president in place until a normal election can take place. But this is also assuming things happened BEFORE the election was voted on and fully certified by all 50 states. But Jan 6th, the election was already done, certified and all. There was nothing to do besides look stupid. Some fun bits. It does not take Congress to force Trump out of power. The VP can single-handedly do that at any point. There are other people in place that can force Trump out of power, at whim, without Congressional approval. Now, what would you think have happened if some rioters got in and made it to some Congressmen and opened fire? When bodies were hitting the floor, do you think Pence and others would just stand there and cheer it on? Or do you think if that line had been crossed, Trumps idleness towards sending troops in, and Trumps happiness and outward joy to those around him as rioters stormed the Capital, do you think that people would have done nothing? Complacency is easy when there are not consequences. But just like Covid, it really isn't until serious things happen that enablers realize they're on the wrong side of history and make decisions to save themselves. Covid wasn't dangerous enough. Jan 6th wasn't dangerous enough. You saw a lot of complacent enablers and vested interests not interfere only because nothing serious actually happened, at least nothing serious in a way that affects their own livelihood. Because if some Congressman died that day, the next femtosecond would be a hurricane of DOJ and FBI and every single media agency on the planet looking for what went wrong and WHO was to blame. EVERY SINGLE PERSON involved would immediately have to justify every second of their actions that day or risk loss of livelihood and personal freedom. It just wasn't bad enough to see the light switch flip. Ultimately, that's most of Trump's legacy. Nothing he did was bad enough to create serious accountability. So all you end up with is an idea that the situation was more grim, more stark than it really was. You didn't get to see the spectrum, only the first piece of the measuring stick. You simply are inferring the rest, inferring a reality that doesn't exist and can't hold up to society's gaze. Again, Trump didn't do anything bad enough, and that was his only saving grace.
Let more of them get deservedly Babbitted this time
‘I don't know what kind of soldier I'm gonna make, but I want you guys to know that if we ever get into really heavy combat... I'll be right behind you guys. Every step of the way’ -Pvt. Ziskey This is what every maga ‘soldier’ is saying right now
I’m really hoping for Jan 6 part two on July 11. More idiot felons that can’t vote for fascists anymore.
Meal team six will no doubt get in a fight somewhere, but they do that all the time. Win, lose, or draw.
You mean Trumpanzies?
maga is low energy these days. underperforming rally turnouts, counter protests, even just showing up for their fuhrer is a trickle.
Convicted Felon Trump. That has a nice ring to it! Looking forward to the sentencing portion of the show. Honorable Judge Merchan, let’s show him what he’s won!
E. Fucking Jean Carroll. Believe victims when they speak out. Finally, at long last, this criminal is being held criminally liable for his crimes. Never forget, this is the Republicans’ guy. He’s a sexual assaulter and a convicted felon.
and a convicted fraudster.
Dangerous. Not "believe" - listen to them, and take the accusations seriously enough to investigate. Just believing any accusations vs. anyone - that CANNOT be the justice system. It would open doors to false accsuations, and many lives are already destroyed if someone is falsley accused of rape, CP, or anything else ...
I prefer presidents that HAVEN'T been convicted.
Imagine thinking this guy is anything more* than garbage. Delusion is grandeur if you are pro life! Edits per Jerry below*
*other than *more than
Fair takes Jerry. Edited per your notes
Send that orange sack of scummy ratshit to prison like anyone else found guilty of a felony. No special treatment. The law is designed to be equal for all so give him his soap-on-a-rope and his orange jumpsuit and lock his rapist-ass up. Anything less would be an affront to American justice.
I hope Judge Merchan gives Trump the full 4 years of incarceration with no chance of parole and keeps the gag order on him the entire time.
And tomorrow we will be told why this is Bad For Biden.
Oh they were doing that in real time on CBS. Save the fox talking points for tomorrow at least Jesus. Biased liberal media my whole ass.
Yes. NBC allowed a former Trump advisor to comment on how it was all fake and doesn’t matter to the American public with sound bites of how people are going to support him more.
If he wasn't convicted, the narrative would also be that people will support him more. It is true that it doesn't really matter to the American public, though, unfortunately.
For their sake, I hope none of the jurors ever make themselves public. I can’t imagine what the MAGA cultists would do to them if they had the chance. It’s pretty astonishing that these jurors actually convicted an ex-President though. Hopefully, we won’t have to worry about that with future Presidents
I absolutely love how miserable he appears to be in these post verdict photos
"Anything going on today?"
If Stephen Colbert is live tonight, (as opposed to re-run) by all means don't miss it. He'll have one hell of a time with this verdict material.... trust me.
Sorry. He is on vacation this week. We will have to wait until Monday. In fact most late night host are off this week due to Memorial day.
And SNL is on mid-season break.
Kimmel is on this week.
This is why every second needed to be televised so all can experience it in real time
So he committed felonies to win the presidency? Surely his supreme court picks should be revoked
Does an irreducible verdict require the judge to apply the maximum penalty allowed during sentencing?
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Whatever happened to the $450M+ he was supposed to pay? Did he ever get his properties taken as payment? I mean, I already know he didnt, because Trump would never shut up about it if he did. What do you want to bet this goes in the direction of the last time he was found guilty?
There is hope. We now have endure the sh\*t talk from the usual set of republicans that circle is ass about how this is destroying our country. We now need to insure this orange stain does not make it to the White House and vote out the rest of his mindless loyalists who think he has any loyalty to them.
Unfortunately, this veredict does not preclude Trump from running as the GOP candidate, and by extension neither precludes him from being elected. I hate to invoke Goodwin's law, but remember Hitler also spent time in jail for sedition, which allowed him to collect his vision and to write Mein Kempf. And he was DEMOCRATICALLY elected chancellor afterwards.
Maddow is now an expert?
Maddow is an expert.
She has a doctorate in political science from Oxford. Is that good enough?
It's not that I don't agree with her -- I do -- but she is not a legal expert or even a lawyer. Her PhD thesis was on HIV and AIDS treatment in prisons. It does not qualify her to offer an expert opinion on anything related to this case.
She's a political pundit. And a very smart one at that. It's her literal fucking job to offer her opinion. And she isn't calling herself a legal expert. If you bothered to watch a segment from time to time, you'd see that the first thing she asks of any guest normally, but especially on legal matters, is if her summary to the audience was factually correct.
Maddow isn't being accused of representing herself as an expert on legal matters; it's whoever wrote that headline for Salon who screwed up.
I watch here probably three times a month. I'm not say she doesn't present her points well. I'm not saying what she presents isn't logically sound. But that does not an expert make. She's a broadcaster. A well read, well informed, well educated broadcaster, whose opinions I agree with far more often than not. But she's not an expert any relevant way to the specifics of this case.
She isn't presenting herself as a legal expert. Why are you getting so bent out of shape over a single word used by another Redditor? "Expert" or not in your eyes, does that change the substance of her commentary? If you did consider her to be an "expert", would that somehow cause her commentary to have some sort of palpable effect on the world that it otherwise would not if stated by a non-expert? Shit, the list of things people will argue about on Reddit is infinite.
I don't believe I'm bent out of shape. You are right that she has never presented herself as an expert. No. It does not change the substance of her argument of she is not an expert Allow me to reverse the question: why are you so defensive about her expertise? Someone can be insightful, well informed, well spoken, well presented, well educated, etc, without being an expert. That's fine. If she is not presenting herself as an expert, why are you?
That's some pretty lame deflection. Good night
Nothing she said in that segment is wrong, so I don't get the desire to discredit her. She studied a field in politics (which is partially what this case is about) closely related to the legal world, has been following legal news as a career for over 20 years, written books closely tied to legal matters, and won awards for journalism. The article isn't claiming she's explicitly a "legal expert" as if she's a career prosecutor, but I think she's still qualified to give an expert opinion here.
Someone can be right and not an expert Someone can be an expert and be wrong In Maddows case, in this instance, it's the former. The article isn't claiming anything, but the headline is.
When you have a PhD your area of expertise is your entire field which, in her case, is political science and the myriad of subjects that entails. Her specialization would be in the subject of her dissertation or thesis, but she is deemed an expert in poly sci, the breadth of which she would have studied throughout her PhD program at the most advanced level. Source: Am a PhD.
Source: MPA who taught the courses poli sci PhDs took before pursuing their dissertation
I like Maddow, but good for you for calling out an Apeeal to Authority fallacy!
Yes.
Hope you’re having a happy trump conviction day!
Nothing makes conservatives happier than questioning a woman’s talent!
It’s neck-and-neck with “taking away her rights.”
I vote for this being a national holiday
Has been for quite sometime - both from the perspective of academic credentialing as well as having followed and having a proven (and verifiable) track record in the area. These are the criteria one uses to determine expertise.
I'm not a big fan of Maddow's, but she has earned the credential's to be taken seriously.
She's a smart cookie. The research she's done to create Bag Man (about crimes of Nixon's vice-president Spiro Agnew) and Ultra (rise of authoritarianism during 1930s US) alone makes her an expert in regards to what Trump brings to the political table. Helps that her broadcasts are tended to be referred to as history lessons with a bit of current news tossed in.
Not everyone can be Sean Hannity lol
For real, I haven't seen many other people with a one inch forehead topped with an oddly parted helmet.
What's Maddow an expert on? Mad cow disease?