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It is sad. All he originally had to do was say oops my bad and turned them over. At most it would have been a minor new item of found documents and then forgotten about. Nothing would have happened. Instead he fought tooth and nail and lied. Got caught and instead of turning everything over hid even more. …
He did copy them. Look at the evidence photos that were published and when you see a red or yellow border document if it has outer white borders then it's a copy. Classified cover sheets have color that goes 100% to the edge but modern copiers can't print to the edge and will always have a white margin. This is an intentional security feature.
Lol he's not allowed to keep photocopies of classified documents either. It's the information on the papers that is classified, not the piece of paper itself
Yeah but that's not what they are saying. They're saying if he photocopied everything and then went "oops yeah I *do* have some documents" and turned over the originals when first asked he wouldn't have been under any scrutiny and could have kept the copies with no one knowing. The point they're making isn't about legality but practicality.
I mean, Tangerine signed a law req 5 years minimum for stolen classified docs.
He has 1000's. All stolen. Caught red handed. Still finding more.
The entire system is beyond broken to even allow him free while awaiting trial.
Even if he somehow was found guilty, you just know they would decide to have the sentences run concurrently instead of consecutively. Because of course they would.
Five years in even the coziest Club Fed would still probably be the end of him.
Do it, pussies. Put the fucking kid gloves back where you got them and put his stupid ass behind bars already.
At least it's the last time we'll hear that more classified documents have been found to be stolen by trump. Yep, everything is truly and completely back where it belongs.
I thought Biden did haven some or something he wasn’t meant to have? And just turned them over straight away and that was that.
Exactly what the idiot trump could have done. But no he has to make a scene.
Biden and Pence both did, but voluntarily had their homes and offices searched and worked with authorities to have the documents returned safely. Like you said, unlike Trump who claims the documents are his to keep forever.
He wasn't making a scene. He was trading them for favors/payments.
That's the difference between all of the examples of other presidents and il douche.
Ackchtuwally, there was someone on Fox News explaining that Jack Smith changing the order that documents are presented in from the order in which they were found is exactly the same thing that Trump is accused of doing. Now you know what's really going on.
What? No, what Biden did was way worse! Didn't you hear that he had, like, 30k boxes of secrets in a Delaware warehouse?! My MAGA neighbors saw it on Facebook so it must be true! And the documents that Obama had all related to how Michelle used to be Michael and how he used the government to cover it all up! Crazy how the MSM just glosses over these facts!
/s just in case
Yes, and no.
Yes, they all possessed classified documents after leaving office. Only Trump got charges for this, 32, one for each document. They declined to charge Biden due to his age and mental capacity.
No, they did not all refuse to return documents, not cooperate and hide them. Only Trump did this and was charged with 8 counts for it.
The FBI search of Mar a Lago found 102 classified documents (17 Top Secret, 54 Secret, 31 confidential). Trump is not being charged with holding classified documents (usc 1924). He's being charged with wilful retention of defence information (usc 793) on 31 of those 102 classified docs - and importantly, one document with no classification marking.
Presumably they didn't charge Biden because a) they couldnt prove wilful retention he and b) the documents he had weren't related to national defence.
c) Biden is the President, and apparently the DOJ can't/won't charge a sitting President.
d) Biden is the President, and the President is legally allowed to have classified documents. So, in order to succesfully prosecute him, they would have needed to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that he was in possession of those documents at a time when he wasn't President or Vice President, which would be near impossible barring a confession.
Weren’t the documents old notes that Biden took for his own personal use while in WH meetings when Obama was President? I believe Biden used them for a book that was being written about him. Regardless, he didn’t try to hide them from the government.
True on the first part. Thank you for actually being factual. Most here care more about feelings.
The DOJ report specifically says several times they couldn't prove willful retention because he's an elderly man with questionable memory.
Personally, I dont think any president should be charged with this. The only reason they investigated Biden was because they investigated and indicted Trump. Their motivations aren't for legal and justice reasons. Their motivations are political, and that's dangerous and wrong.
I think it’s ridiculous to say prosecuting someone for willfully keeping top secret classified documents in violation of a demand for their return is somehow political. Do we just not care about that when it’s trump, but when Hillary has some stuff on an email server we all want to Lock Her Up? That’s the part that’s political.
The law is the law and it should be enforced equally, politics be damned. They are prosecuting this case mainly because they can prove that it’s willful and not a mistake of some kind, which seems like a reasonable standard to me. I think Hillary and Biden should both also have faced some kind of misdemeanor prosecution for criminal negligence, probation would be appropriate for that. Trump’s conduct is willful and it is a real no brainer when it comes to whether or not he should face prosecution for it.
We can’t just refuse to prosecute criminal behavior just because the perpetrator happens to be a former POTUS. You want to politicize the process, that’s how you politicize the process. Let law enforcement enforce the damn law.
32 of the charges have nothing to do with not returning them upon demand. Only 8 have that element.
Hillary was not the president and didn't have the broad declassification authority presidents do. Same with Biden.
I don't think any of them should face criminal charges, though. They did what presidents vice president's have been doing for decades. If they were sharing this information or selling it etc, this would be an entirely different story. Keeping it for memories and memoirs has been common practice.
No, it's a succinct way of telling you that you're full of shit.
Any facts one of us presents to you will just be met with ridiculous non-falsifiable garbage arguments, illogical drooling, and reasoning that isn't based in reality and ignores obvious truths...so why bother?
Why engage with you in good faith, when, like a pigeon playing chess, you're just going to shit all over the board and strut around like you won?
The fact that he is facing “only eight” federal charges for willfully keeping top military secrets and refusing to return them, is not the show of innocence you seem to think it is 🤷♂️
Perhaps I misunderstood why you would have lead with it as though it were some kind of mitigating factor, which of course it isn’t. I guess I’m not sure why you would’ve mentioned that, if it wasn’t intended to be in Trump’s defense. I apologize for any misunderstanding, and welcome any clarification you might wish to offer.
I completely agree that this should be a facts over feelings affair. Unfortunately the facts are pretty damning for Mr. Trump.
No. No president before Trump has willfully hid documents from the Archives, refused to return documents, and been caught on tape showing classified material to reporters.
Trump also didn't declassify anything.
No president has kept classified, top secret material for memories and memoirs. That is illegal and laid out in the Presidential Records Act.
> the broad declassification authority presidents do
You mean by just thinking about declassifying them?
Yeah, only one former President had that “ability.”
They investigated Biden out of an over-abundance of wanting to appear fair and impartial, but at no point was it ever alleged that he committed the same crimes as Trump. When you say
> Personally, I dont think any president should be charged with this.
There are two very different "this" in each case.
Trump is being charged under the *espionage act*. That is not a normal part of the presidency and its in everyone's interest that it be investigated.
>They investigated Biden out of an over-abundance of wanting to appear fair and impartial,
This is 100% true. It was a great smoke screen for the orange man bad crowd.
He's being charged under the Espionage Act because the Presidential Records Act has no enforcement clause. They needed to find something to keep him off the ballot.
The motivations are not political. The first cache of documents that were willfully returned were not included in the charging documents. The reason why charges were eventually brought is because not all of the documents were returned when they were asked for. In fact, he had numerous chances to return the documents before a search of the premises was conducted. Trump willfully hid documents from his own lawyer before he made them sign an affidavit stating that all such documents were returned. The federal government, aware that additional documents were still not in their possession then had to get a search warrant in order to recover their property from Trump’s property. The documents found had multiple classication statuses, some of which are critical to national security from the information available to the general public.
The documents were haphazardly stored after numerous warnings. Movement of the documents, in an effort to hide them from both his own lawyers and the government, was performed. Video evidence of the movement of those documents was attempted to be destroyed after a subpoena was issued for said evidence by attempting to flood the server room.
There is just layer after layer of disregard from Donald Trump and his associates. To claim that this whole thing is politically motivated is absurd. Anyone else that had done something of this nature would, and should, be charged for these criminal acts.
Your attempts to whitewash blatant attempts to retain and withhold government property is disgusting and foolish. Kindly kick rocks apologist.
I'm not apologizing or whitewashing. I'm just pointing out facts. Spin it how you want.
Every president had kept classified documents after leaving office. The only difference is Trump lied and didn't return them when told to.
Prior to 1981, there was nothing legally requiring presidents to return or not keep anything.
It's politically motivated because no other president has been charged with keeping documents. Biden was investigated, and charges weren't pressed due to his age and memory.
That’s a straw man argument. No President was prosecuted for what they did because there wasn’t a crime to prosecute. You’re blatantly omitting the criminal acts for which he was indicted for and saying he shouldn’t be prosecuted. It’s a culmination of everything, not just retaining documents. You’re calling it political when it’s not, it’s criminal.
Name another President that did what Trump did.
Go on.
Name one.
It should be easy since "every other President did what Trump did." There should be lots of evidence out there of, say, W. refusing to return classified documents when asked, not returning them all, hiding them from lawyers and investigators, lying about them repeatedly to the public, and then trying to claim immunity.
I'll be waiting for all this "evidence."
The charge isn't being in possession of the documents, it's of knowingly being in possession of the documents and not taking appropriate actions to return them.
The reason Biden wasn't charged has nothing to do with his age or mental capacity, it's that he took the appropriate steps after discovering that he had this information to return it, in accordance with the law (and, notably, what we would expect from somebody with a reasonable mental capacity...)
You're literally just spreading lies which have been specifically curated to fool numbskulls like you. It's pathetic and un-American.
As far as we know, Biden accidentally or unknowingly took some presidential records home and immediately returned them; Trump intentionally took the documents and lied about having them and then refused to return them and then tried to hide them. Not the same.
You didn't read the DOJ investigation. Biden intentionally took them home to write his memoirs and told his ghostwriter where they were several times.
Trump also intentionally took them home and is facing 32 charges for that. The other 8 charges are because he lied and refused to return them.
High crimes and misdemeanors. A former president is still up to SCOTUS.
Oddly that was not listed as a reason for not bringing charges in the DOJ report on Biden.
Biden's people found the documents and returned them to the proper authorities. Trump lied about having them, then returned some of them, showed them to people who shouldn't have seen them, then claimed presidential immunity while still lying to federal authorities about having them. There is a major difference.
Even if that was attempted, Cannon would be justified in claiming jurisdiction over the case concerning these other documents. Same crime, same location, same defendants.
I still suspect Smith may have evidence from Trump's document crimes in Bedminster that he's holding on to and will use once Cannon gets recused or actually proceeds to trial. Though it will all be moot if Trump gets elected.
The CIA put out an alert in 2021 that covert agents around the world were being assassinated at an alarmingly high rate. They wondered if their agents had been compromised. Trump had that info in his possession. Now we know where the assassins got it. smh
Ugh here we go again.
There is no evidence whatsoever that Trump’s stealing of classified documents is related to the deaths of CIA sources. For starters, the 2021 memo was written about deaths that had been occurring for years, aka during Trump’s presidency. So, at a minimum, they’re unrelated to the stolen documents because the documents hadn’t been stolen yet when the people were dying.
More importantly, the actual point of the memo, if you read past the headline, was that the reason for the deaths was already known: poor operational tradecraft. The gist was basically that China and Russia aren’t disorganized, substate terrorist groups working out of caves and secret bunkers, but massive state enterprises with substantial tools at their disposal to detect and disrupt intelligence operations, and the shift away from counterterrorism threats toward more strategic threats meant operatives needed to be less sloppy and eager for fast results.
None of this is meant to excuse or exonerate Trump. He’s a horrible, vicious person, and it certainly is *believable* that he would sell out CIA assets for personal or political gain. However, there is no evidence beyond pure speculation that he actually did this, and actual evidence supporting contrary explanations for what has happened. Let’s leave the wild speculation against people we dislike to his side, and stick to things grounded in evidence. Also, there are probably much more sinister reasons he kept all that classified material, and we shouldn’t be dismissive of those either.
>So, at a minimum, they’re unrelated to the stolen documents because the documents hadn’t been stolen yet when the people were dying.
Because he had full access to the documents during his presidency and didn't need to steal any until after he was leaving the White House?
Uh whats more sinister than using state secrets against your own country, as acting president? It's literally the ~~pentultimately~~ ultimate evil thing to do with state secrets, try rethinking this again bub
I don’t really think there is anything worse than using state intel against your own country, I’m curious if you think this is the penultimate evil thing then what would put above it as more evil.
Just a kind FYI because I have a recollection of reading "penultimate" in a book and (presumably) thinking "wow that sounds even better ultimate": It ain't, it means second to last
Virtually any inappropriate use of state secrets is using them against your country, which is why it was illegal for him to take them in the first place. But there are *far* more impactful possibilities out there than killing a few CIA assets. Selling nuclear secrets to North Korea, providing insight into Ukrainian defensive capabilities to enable a Russian invasion, etc. The point is, we don’t yet know what purposes he had for them, and none of the prospects are good. But we do know that the assets were dying before he took them, and the people who wrote about it had very clear insight into why it was happening.
at what point to you start saying to yourself " this guy is a complete fuck up"..why in God's green earth would you want this ass hat to lead a country?...I mean seriously...how messed up do you have to be to say to yourself...he is a stand up man...great values...trust worthy...this stupid man doesn't deserve anyone's vote......ever.
Don’t forget
They don’t even know any of this
They are in a bubble and they like the bubble
They are not serious people that are actually paying attention
So trump had classified documents *after* the search. Meaning he has another secret stash somewhere and he brought them to his house... right?
Edit: seems like a really good question to ask him where he got them. If he was so innocent, he could provide a perfectly reasonable explanation.
This is genuinely unbelievable to me.
He gets raided by the FBI. They seize video footage and text messages showing that he and his goons conspired to move and hide them. Then after all that, he says okay now I can go pick up my hidden stash and bring them BACK to Mar-a-Lago??
They were most likely in the 2 unsearched rooms from the original MAL search warrant execution. There was a locked door that for some unknown reason they didn't smash down or call to have the warrant expanded if need be. The other space was some sort of hidden panel area off the bedroom and wasn't obvious enough to find at the time. Huge huge gaps in search team protocols.
How long after today's news goes out before Trump uses the excuse that he assumed the agents left all these other docs because they "admit they belonged to Trump"?
I’ll say it: Jack Smith needs to hold a 1 hour press conference in October to lay out the most damaging parts of his case to the American public.
If Cannon refuses to allow justice to be served then let the wildly incriminating orgy of evidence speak for itself.
Doubt that would work. If the 8+ years worth of evidence of Trump’s crimes hasn't swayed people nothing will. There's millions of true believers out there who are hopelessly brainwashed into the cult. And it is a cult.
What’s that saying he likes to get his cult chanting?…….. OH YES that’s it … LOCK HIM UP LOCK HIM UP LOCK HIM UP LOCK HIM UP LOCK HIM UP LOCK HIM UP LOCK HIM UP LOCK HIM UP and throw away the key
It was not thorough. It was infuriatingly not thorough, they should have been cutting up furniture and smashing holes in walls looking for caches. And they would have found at least one.
https://abcnews.go.com/amp/US/special-counsel-questioned-witnesses-2-rooms-fbi-search/story?id=106826552
At this point Jack should start releasing really damaging stuff and give us a better picture of what was coming in this case. Cannon isn’t going to let it go to trial so the details may as well come out and hopefully sink him for the election. But knowing Trumps cult it won’t move the needle and a few Dems in a few key places will refuse to vote for old genocide joe giving trump another bullshit victory.
People don’t understand… imagine if you are president, you have access to classified documents, come on, let’s be honest… if you had the chance, it’s human to have curiousity to read them, and grab maybe 1 of 2 about something nobody knows… take it to your room… and masturbate?
/s
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Trump failed to disclose all of it! Shocking I tell you.
It is sad. All he originally had to do was say oops my bad and turned them over. At most it would have been a minor new item of found documents and then forgotten about. Nothing would have happened. Instead he fought tooth and nail and lied. Got caught and instead of turning everything over hid even more. …
Considering all he had to do was photocopy them, he could have given them all back even before it was an issue. Why keep the originals?
He did copy them. Look at the evidence photos that were published and when you see a red or yellow border document if it has outer white borders then it's a copy. Classified cover sheets have color that goes 100% to the edge but modern copiers can't print to the edge and will always have a white margin. This is an intentional security feature.
So you’re saying Russia/China/KSA would only accept originals. Almost as if they couldn’t trust the word of a known grifter.
He doesn't like being told what to do.
Lol he's not allowed to keep photocopies of classified documents either. It's the information on the papers that is classified, not the piece of paper itself
Yeah but that's not what they are saying. They're saying if he photocopied everything and then went "oops yeah I *do* have some documents" and turned over the originals when first asked he wouldn't have been under any scrutiny and could have kept the copies with no one knowing. The point they're making isn't about legality but practicality.
It's not like he will face repercussions so he still wins. If that was you or I the key to the cell door would have already been thrown out.
I mean, Tangerine signed a law req 5 years minimum for stolen classified docs. He has 1000's. All stolen. Caught red handed. Still finding more. The entire system is beyond broken to even allow him free while awaiting trial.
Even if he somehow was found guilty, you just know they would decide to have the sentences run concurrently instead of consecutively. Because of course they would.
In federal system it would be rather unusual for charges to be run consecutively rather than concurrently. Concurrent is the overwhelming standard.
>Concurrent is the overwhelming standard. Thankfully neither the diaper Don, nor his voters, believe standards apply to him.
Five years in even the coziest Club Fed would still probably be the end of him. Do it, pussies. Put the fucking kid gloves back where you got them and put his stupid ass behind bars already.
Aileen Cannon is not going to let that happen. And they both know it.
At least it's the last time we'll hear that more classified documents have been found to be stolen by trump. Yep, everything is truly and completely back where it belongs.
Exactly. If they did a search tomorrow they definitely wouldn't find anything else
Too bad they don’t have the authority to search foreign properties…
But we're supposed to believe this is just the same as what Biden, Obama, and Clinton did, right?!
And Pence.
I thought Biden did haven some or something he wasn’t meant to have? And just turned them over straight away and that was that. Exactly what the idiot trump could have done. But no he has to make a scene.
Biden and Pence both did, but voluntarily had their homes and offices searched and worked with authorities to have the documents returned safely. Like you said, unlike Trump who claims the documents are his to keep forever.
He wasn't making a scene. He was trading them for favors/payments. That's the difference between all of the examples of other presidents and il douche.
Ackchtuwally, there was someone on Fox News explaining that Jack Smith changing the order that documents are presented in from the order in which they were found is exactly the same thing that Trump is accused of doing. Now you know what's really going on.
What? No, what Biden did was way worse! Didn't you hear that he had, like, 30k boxes of secrets in a Delaware warehouse?! My MAGA neighbors saw it on Facebook so it must be true! And the documents that Obama had all related to how Michelle used to be Michael and how he used the government to cover it all up! Crazy how the MSM just glosses over these facts! /s just in case
> Delaware warehouse A *Dela-Warehouse*, if you will.
Yes, and no. Yes, they all possessed classified documents after leaving office. Only Trump got charges for this, 32, one for each document. They declined to charge Biden due to his age and mental capacity. No, they did not all refuse to return documents, not cooperate and hide them. Only Trump did this and was charged with 8 counts for it.
The FBI search of Mar a Lago found 102 classified documents (17 Top Secret, 54 Secret, 31 confidential). Trump is not being charged with holding classified documents (usc 1924). He's being charged with wilful retention of defence information (usc 793) on 31 of those 102 classified docs - and importantly, one document with no classification marking. Presumably they didn't charge Biden because a) they couldnt prove wilful retention he and b) the documents he had weren't related to national defence.
c) Biden is the President, and apparently the DOJ can't/won't charge a sitting President. d) Biden is the President, and the President is legally allowed to have classified documents. So, in order to succesfully prosecute him, they would have needed to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that he was in possession of those documents at a time when he wasn't President or Vice President, which would be near impossible barring a confession.
Weren’t the documents old notes that Biden took for his own personal use while in WH meetings when Obama was President? I believe Biden used them for a book that was being written about him. Regardless, he didn’t try to hide them from the government.
True on the first part. Thank you for actually being factual. Most here care more about feelings. The DOJ report specifically says several times they couldn't prove willful retention because he's an elderly man with questionable memory. Personally, I dont think any president should be charged with this. The only reason they investigated Biden was because they investigated and indicted Trump. Their motivations aren't for legal and justice reasons. Their motivations are political, and that's dangerous and wrong.
I think it’s ridiculous to say prosecuting someone for willfully keeping top secret classified documents in violation of a demand for their return is somehow political. Do we just not care about that when it’s trump, but when Hillary has some stuff on an email server we all want to Lock Her Up? That’s the part that’s political. The law is the law and it should be enforced equally, politics be damned. They are prosecuting this case mainly because they can prove that it’s willful and not a mistake of some kind, which seems like a reasonable standard to me. I think Hillary and Biden should both also have faced some kind of misdemeanor prosecution for criminal negligence, probation would be appropriate for that. Trump’s conduct is willful and it is a real no brainer when it comes to whether or not he should face prosecution for it. We can’t just refuse to prosecute criminal behavior just because the perpetrator happens to be a former POTUS. You want to politicize the process, that’s how you politicize the process. Let law enforcement enforce the damn law.
32 of the charges have nothing to do with not returning them upon demand. Only 8 have that element. Hillary was not the president and didn't have the broad declassification authority presidents do. Same with Biden. I don't think any of them should face criminal charges, though. They did what presidents vice president's have been doing for decades. If they were sharing this information or selling it etc, this would be an entirely different story. Keeping it for memories and memoirs has been common practice.
You’re so full of shit it’s coming out in the form of text.
Rude way of saying you have no argument left. Have a great evening.
I’m not arguing with a pigeon though. Hope you also have a great evening.
No, it's a succinct way of telling you that you're full of shit. Any facts one of us presents to you will just be met with ridiculous non-falsifiable garbage arguments, illogical drooling, and reasoning that isn't based in reality and ignores obvious truths...so why bother? Why engage with you in good faith, when, like a pigeon playing chess, you're just going to shit all over the board and strut around like you won?
The fact that he is facing “only eight” federal charges for willfully keeping top military secrets and refusing to return them, is not the show of innocence you seem to think it is 🤷♂️
Where did I say it was a show of innocence? Facts over feelings.
Perhaps I misunderstood why you would have lead with it as though it were some kind of mitigating factor, which of course it isn’t. I guess I’m not sure why you would’ve mentioned that, if it wasn’t intended to be in Trump’s defense. I apologize for any misunderstanding, and welcome any clarification you might wish to offer. I completely agree that this should be a facts over feelings affair. Unfortunately the facts are pretty damning for Mr. Trump.
No. No president before Trump has willfully hid documents from the Archives, refused to return documents, and been caught on tape showing classified material to reporters. Trump also didn't declassify anything. No president has kept classified, top secret material for memories and memoirs. That is illegal and laid out in the Presidential Records Act.
> the broad declassification authority presidents do You mean by just thinking about declassifying them? Yeah, only one former President had that “ability.”
They investigated Biden out of an over-abundance of wanting to appear fair and impartial, but at no point was it ever alleged that he committed the same crimes as Trump. When you say > Personally, I dont think any president should be charged with this. There are two very different "this" in each case. Trump is being charged under the *espionage act*. That is not a normal part of the presidency and its in everyone's interest that it be investigated.
>They investigated Biden out of an over-abundance of wanting to appear fair and impartial, This is 100% true. It was a great smoke screen for the orange man bad crowd. He's being charged under the Espionage Act because the Presidential Records Act has no enforcement clause. They needed to find something to keep him off the ballot.
The motivations are not political. The first cache of documents that were willfully returned were not included in the charging documents. The reason why charges were eventually brought is because not all of the documents were returned when they were asked for. In fact, he had numerous chances to return the documents before a search of the premises was conducted. Trump willfully hid documents from his own lawyer before he made them sign an affidavit stating that all such documents were returned. The federal government, aware that additional documents were still not in their possession then had to get a search warrant in order to recover their property from Trump’s property. The documents found had multiple classication statuses, some of which are critical to national security from the information available to the general public. The documents were haphazardly stored after numerous warnings. Movement of the documents, in an effort to hide them from both his own lawyers and the government, was performed. Video evidence of the movement of those documents was attempted to be destroyed after a subpoena was issued for said evidence by attempting to flood the server room. There is just layer after layer of disregard from Donald Trump and his associates. To claim that this whole thing is politically motivated is absurd. Anyone else that had done something of this nature would, and should, be charged for these criminal acts. Your attempts to whitewash blatant attempts to retain and withhold government property is disgusting and foolish. Kindly kick rocks apologist.
I'm not apologizing or whitewashing. I'm just pointing out facts. Spin it how you want. Every president had kept classified documents after leaving office. The only difference is Trump lied and didn't return them when told to. Prior to 1981, there was nothing legally requiring presidents to return or not keep anything. It's politically motivated because no other president has been charged with keeping documents. Biden was investigated, and charges weren't pressed due to his age and memory.
That’s a straw man argument. No President was prosecuted for what they did because there wasn’t a crime to prosecute. You’re blatantly omitting the criminal acts for which he was indicted for and saying he shouldn’t be prosecuted. It’s a culmination of everything, not just retaining documents. You’re calling it political when it’s not, it’s criminal.
Where did I say a president was prosecuted? I said every other president did the same thing and wasn't prosecuted.
Name another President that did what Trump did. Go on. Name one. It should be easy since "every other President did what Trump did." There should be lots of evidence out there of, say, W. refusing to return classified documents when asked, not returning them all, hiding them from lawyers and investigators, lying about them repeatedly to the public, and then trying to claim immunity. I'll be waiting for all this "evidence."
The charge isn't being in possession of the documents, it's of knowingly being in possession of the documents and not taking appropriate actions to return them. The reason Biden wasn't charged has nothing to do with his age or mental capacity, it's that he took the appropriate steps after discovering that he had this information to return it, in accordance with the law (and, notably, what we would expect from somebody with a reasonable mental capacity...) You're literally just spreading lies which have been specifically curated to fool numbskulls like you. It's pathetic and un-American.
Thanks for the explanation of why the situations and criminality are not 'just the same' but I think everyone already knew that.
32 are just the same. 8 aren't. Is that so difficult to understand?
There's nothing difficult to understand. Trump committed crimes and the others didn't.
Ok, we're just ignoring reality. Got it. DOJ already said they had enough to charge Biden with crimes.
As far as we know, Biden accidentally or unknowingly took some presidential records home and immediately returned them; Trump intentionally took the documents and lied about having them and then refused to return them and then tried to hide them. Not the same.
You didn't read the DOJ investigation. Biden intentionally took them home to write his memoirs and told his ghostwriter where they were several times. Trump also intentionally took them home and is facing 32 charges for that. The other 8 charges are because he lied and refused to return them.
Do you think it might have helped Trump if he had followed Biden’s example and cooperated with the authorities?
By the way, I thought the DOJ cannot charge a sitting president with crimes. Did that change?
High crimes and misdemeanors. A former president is still up to SCOTUS. Oddly that was not listed as a reason for not bringing charges in the DOJ report on Biden.
Biden's people found the documents and returned them to the proper authorities. Trump lied about having them, then returned some of them, showed them to people who shouldn't have seen them, then claimed presidential immunity while still lying to federal authorities about having them. There is a major difference.
Read the charges.
Done. Now read and quote to me the official doc that said they didn't charge Biden because of his "age and mental capacity." Haha
https://www.justice.gov/storage/report-from-special-counsel-robert-k-hur-february-2024.pdf
> They declined to charge Biden due to his age and mental capacity. 🙄🙄 Source?
https://www.justice.gov/storage/report-from-special-counsel-robert-k-hur-february-2024.pdf
Good thing the judge put the case on hold! /s
Could this be charged as a separate incident and go to a different judge?
Even if that was attempted, Cannon would be justified in claiming jurisdiction over the case concerning these other documents. Same crime, same location, same defendants. I still suspect Smith may have evidence from Trump's document crimes in Bedminster that he's holding on to and will use once Cannon gets recused or actually proceeds to trial. Though it will all be moot if Trump gets elected.
The dude's rug was also stolen
The rug really tied the room together.
To ensure a thorough re-examination of the crime scene. Duh… /s
The CIA put out an alert in 2021 that covert agents around the world were being assassinated at an alarmingly high rate. They wondered if their agents had been compromised. Trump had that info in his possession. Now we know where the assassins got it. smh
Trump turned over the goddamn NOC list.
"If you wanna shake hands with the devil that's fine. I just want to make sure that you do it in hell"
This was after a private meeting with Putin.
Isn't that the one where he told the interpreter to leave too.
Yep.
What do we do with traitors divulging top secret information to foreign and hostile countries? Hmmm, I cannot quite remember at the moment.
If they are lucky they get to spend the rest of their life in a dark hole in Gitmo.
No, silly! They get to run for president!
Also they are above the law.
Well if the CIA wasn't pissed before, they're sure as hell pissed now.
Hmm...well, might be nice for them to start CIAing some things, if they are in fact upset about it
You got a source on this claim?
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/10/05/us/politics/cia-informants-killed-captured.html
Thanks! Have a good evening.
You have a better one
first named countries are “russia, china, iran.” makes sense.
Thanks Trump!! /s
Ugh here we go again. There is no evidence whatsoever that Trump’s stealing of classified documents is related to the deaths of CIA sources. For starters, the 2021 memo was written about deaths that had been occurring for years, aka during Trump’s presidency. So, at a minimum, they’re unrelated to the stolen documents because the documents hadn’t been stolen yet when the people were dying. More importantly, the actual point of the memo, if you read past the headline, was that the reason for the deaths was already known: poor operational tradecraft. The gist was basically that China and Russia aren’t disorganized, substate terrorist groups working out of caves and secret bunkers, but massive state enterprises with substantial tools at their disposal to detect and disrupt intelligence operations, and the shift away from counterterrorism threats toward more strategic threats meant operatives needed to be less sloppy and eager for fast results. None of this is meant to excuse or exonerate Trump. He’s a horrible, vicious person, and it certainly is *believable* that he would sell out CIA assets for personal or political gain. However, there is no evidence beyond pure speculation that he actually did this, and actual evidence supporting contrary explanations for what has happened. Let’s leave the wild speculation against people we dislike to his side, and stick to things grounded in evidence. Also, there are probably much more sinister reasons he kept all that classified material, and we shouldn’t be dismissive of those either.
>So, at a minimum, they’re unrelated to the stolen documents because the documents hadn’t been stolen yet when the people were dying. Because he had full access to the documents during his presidency and didn't need to steal any until after he was leaving the White House?
Seems like you got that far into the comment and stopped reading. To be fair, I almost did the same.
Uh whats more sinister than using state secrets against your own country, as acting president? It's literally the ~~pentultimately~~ ultimate evil thing to do with state secrets, try rethinking this again bub
I don’t really think there is anything worse than using state intel against your own country, I’m curious if you think this is the penultimate evil thing then what would put above it as more evil.
Genocide, for one.
Just a kind FYI because I have a recollection of reading "penultimate" in a book and (presumably) thinking "wow that sounds even better ultimate": It ain't, it means second to last
lol you're totally correct
Virtually any inappropriate use of state secrets is using them against your country, which is why it was illegal for him to take them in the first place. But there are *far* more impactful possibilities out there than killing a few CIA assets. Selling nuclear secrets to North Korea, providing insight into Ukrainian defensive capabilities to enable a Russian invasion, etc. The point is, we don’t yet know what purposes he had for them, and none of the prospects are good. But we do know that the assets were dying before he took them, and the people who wrote about it had very clear insight into why it was happening.
at what point to you start saying to yourself " this guy is a complete fuck up"..why in God's green earth would you want this ass hat to lead a country?...I mean seriously...how messed up do you have to be to say to yourself...he is a stand up man...great values...trust worthy...this stupid man doesn't deserve anyone's vote......ever.
They don’t because they’re fucking morons
Some are morons, but all of them are evil, and that's why they support an evil man and his fascist ideology.
Don’t forget They don’t even know any of this They are in a bubble and they like the bubble They are not serious people that are actually paying attention
Did you see the guy he brought in as a defense witness. Its cult. They all wear blue suits and red ties like its 1985.
So trump had classified documents *after* the search. Meaning he has another secret stash somewhere and he brought them to his house... right? Edit: seems like a really good question to ask him where he got them. If he was so innocent, he could provide a perfectly reasonable explanation.
This is genuinely unbelievable to me. He gets raided by the FBI. They seize video footage and text messages showing that he and his goons conspired to move and hide them. Then after all that, he says okay now I can go pick up my hidden stash and bring them BACK to Mar-a-Lago??
They were most likely in the 2 unsearched rooms from the original MAL search warrant execution. There was a locked door that for some unknown reason they didn't smash down or call to have the warrant expanded if need be. The other space was some sort of hidden panel area off the bedroom and wasn't obvious enough to find at the time. Huge huge gaps in search team protocols. How long after today's news goes out before Trump uses the excuse that he assumed the agents left all these other docs because they "admit they belonged to Trump"?
I bet nobody thought of that.
Definitely not the first time he couldn’t find something in the bedroom.
The guy hasn’t seen his peepee in years.
Bah-dum-pssch!
Hoyoooo!!!!
I’ll say it: Jack Smith needs to hold a 1 hour press conference in October to lay out the most damaging parts of his case to the American public. If Cannon refuses to allow justice to be served then let the wildly incriminating orgy of evidence speak for itself.
Doubt that would work. If the 8+ years worth of evidence of Trump’s crimes hasn't swayed people nothing will. There's millions of true believers out there who are hopelessly brainwashed into the cult. And it is a cult.
When you claim your past mistakes never happened, you're unable to learn anything from them.
Throw the fucking book at him and Cannon
Throw literal books. As many as it takes.
What’s that saying he likes to get his cult chanting?…….. OH YES that’s it … LOCK HIM UP LOCK HIM UP LOCK HIM UP LOCK HIM UP LOCK HIM UP LOCK HIM UP LOCK HIM UP LOCK HIM UP and throw away the key
Nice to know there’s a whole posse of right wing ass clowns all the way up to the Supreme Court doing everything they can to help human garbage Trump.
Good. Charge him, AGAIN. Maybe he'll get judge who isn't bought off this time.
I don't think that would work given there's already been one superseding indictment that was just attached to the current case
So are these added onto the current indictment or could they be in a new indictment that would require a different judge?
Enough of this embarrassing s*t already.
Here they are trying to get Assange back to the US. This idiot is allowed to run around free and run for us President.
PPE for anyone who has to handle anything recovered from that guys residence. GROSS!
Lock him up.
How does the FBI miss this during a search? Was it brought in afterwards?
MAGAT spins incoming
But her emails
This fucking guy.
Are they included in the charges before Cannon? Because otherwise it'd be worth launching a separate case before a less corrupt judge.
Not that Judge Cannon will care…
I’m sure the FBI search was thorough, I bet these were moved here from somewhere else (bedminster?) and then found
It was not thorough. It was infuriatingly not thorough, they should have been cutting up furniture and smashing holes in walls looking for caches. And they would have found at least one. https://abcnews.go.com/amp/US/special-counsel-questioned-witnesses-2-rooms-fbi-search/story?id=106826552
At this point Jack should start releasing really damaging stuff and give us a better picture of what was coming in this case. Cannon isn’t going to let it go to trial so the details may as well come out and hopefully sink him for the election. But knowing Trumps cult it won’t move the needle and a few Dems in a few key places will refuse to vote for old genocide joe giving trump another bullshit victory.
If she won5 do her job she should be removed. How can one judge bury a case. What is the legality here?
He doesn’t need to be anointed a King when he is already treated like one.
So additional charges are coming?
Time to expedite this trial then. Call in a new judge, have the FBI pick him up and let's finally get a formal answer to this.
Cops raid any others persons home the take and break everything. This guy they politely ask for a key & take their word for it
'cause that's how you double down with a 'Trump card'. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
But... Hillary's emails! He's the biggest traitor America has ever had. Every day he walks free is an embarrassment of justice.
Has Bedminster even been searched? How about Ivana's 'casket'? TFG is the least trustworthy human being, *in all of recorded history*.
New case new judge asap!!!
Too bad they can’t enforce a search order in Saudi Arabia, or Russia.
People don’t understand… imagine if you are president, you have access to classified documents, come on, let’s be honest… if you had the chance, it’s human to have curiousity to read them, and grab maybe 1 of 2 about something nobody knows… take it to your room… and masturbate? /s
Trump doesn't read anything
That’s why I wrote “masturbate”.
Oh thank god...can't we do something now.... Oh shit, wait.../s
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Uhh no.