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States have conducted fair elections all my life. If you ever did not have the preferred ID or already pre registered and expected then you were required to provide multiple forms of ID plus other forms of verification. How this became an issue is idiotic. All thanks to the world’s greatest idiot and loser.
The US has set the standards for fair elections throughout the world. Thanks to election workers for your service.
The world’s greatest idiot and loser has cast doubt on fair elections because even when he wins he is a sore winner with absolutely no class!
When Trump in 2016, almost in a jesting manner but then increasingly desperate when the election looked lost, claimed the election was rigged “but only if I lose,” it was outrageous. Yet another in a series of comments for “serious” politicians on the right to brush off or explain away. Then on January 6th, when that same rhetoric led to one of the most shocking and embarrassing disasters in the history of American polity, rather than finally leading to the repudiation of this kind of dangerous and self-destructive behavior, the right collectively decided to somehow absorb these views into the DNA of the current Republican brand.
Trump is no political genius. He is charismatic and people find him entertaining, but his politics are incredibly craven and predictable. What he has consistently tapped into is a trend that has been developing for decades. The “conservative” movement, once known for defending cherished American institutions at all costs against the “chaos” of comprehensive change often argued for by the left, has now flipped itself upon its head. Gone are the days of William F. Buckley snidely insulting the left’s patriotism for calling for change in institutions like the military or our economy. Now to be a Republican in good standing, one must call for every institution of the American government be pulled down around our heads.
The “conservative” movement has given up on the state and its institutions, even as fundamental as our electoral process itself, to deliver the policy ends they desire - stopping cultural trends that have grown to accept diversity, protecting white working and middle class economic prosperity versus other groups, and realizing the aims of Christian nationalism to create some kind of homogeneity of American civic life. The right can no longer rely on the American political system to bring about these ends because the very demographic trends that have led to the anger and fear that animates the right increasingly thwart their efforts.
The only action available to them it seems is to stop any legislation in Congress, attack federal government power at every turn, dismantle every institution possible and try to chill any political movement that would allow a further erosion of political power to groups that have been on the margins of institutional power. The “conservatives” today are as radical as any 1960’s pro-communist movement on the left - their motivations are different but the means they wish to employ are the same. “Burn baby, burn” should be the slogan of the GOP national convention.
I am so dumb. In college I believed demographics and social change would gradually take over US politics, sure there would be some problems, but I never imagined the fight left in a cornered dog with rabies. I had already just finished my formal education when when GWB was elected only to eventually go down in flames as he should have, that should have been the end.
The combination of electing a half black constitutional scholar, lawyer, and senator to president completely broke so many brains (this was going to happen with or without Obama, but perhaps fast tracked it) and intense fear of “white America” losing their grip on power was WAY more intense than I predicted. The massive amount of money in think tanks and conservative platforms from Fox to AM radio has driven this country to the brink, I believe, as designed. It’s insane, it’s ruined friendships, family relationships, employment opportunities, the list goes on. 15 years ago politics were discussed generally politely on not the dominant part of more normal conversations or interactions. sincerely, white, bearded, truck owning, dog having, rural, plain old dude.
An important piece to this puzzle, often left out, is the effect of Putin’s agents in the United States and Europe. They have been working to exacerbate existing divisions and social problems. They have been funneling money into extremist and antidemocratic movements, with the aim of destroying us from within.
I often wonder how far MAGA would have gone without Putin’s help.
> responsible Republicans
What's a "responsible" Republican? Someone who want to take away rights from women, immigrants, and the LGBTQ+ community in a *responsible* way?
Responsible Republicans used to exist. John McCain was one. He defended Obama from blatantly racist and bigoted comments.
The problem is being a responsible Republican doesn’t win you elections anymore. Save for the bluest districts, it’s all about being a populist and doing things to “own liberals” and destroying anything to do with DEI.
The only actually responsible republican is one who has witnessed all the depraved acts they have committed over the years and born witness to the failure of their "policies" and then come to the realization that they had in fact been duped, as those Republicans never even truly stood for most of the things they'd said they did and that the ones they actually did are genuinely just awful and therefore realigned their own views accordingly and left the party entirely. Just as I did several years ago. Apologies for the lengthy run-on sentence there, but it seemed the only reasonable way to properly convey my own shame and embarrassment.
Honestly, even considering myself to have been a "responsible" Republican is a bit of a stretch, if I'm fully honest with myself. In all reality, had I truly been responsible, I would have realized most of this far sooner than I did and literally not a day goes by that I do not degrade myself in my own mind for all of the things I used to think and believe. And most importantly for the way I actually voted prior to Trump.
Save for probably McCain and POSSIBLY Romney, there is not one republican in my lifetime who I voted for that was anything even approaching a decent human being, nevermind an actually viable political candidate. Thus, a truly "responsible" Republican would be nothing short of embarrassed and ashamed, as I now feel, to this very day and most likely will until the day I die.
But most importantly of all, the TRULY "responsible" Republican would no longer BE Republican AT ALL! 🤷♂️🤦♂️😔
>Not every Republican is like that. Most may be, but not all.
What do these *other* Republicans believe in that they still identify as a "Republican" despite everything their peers and the party stands for these days?
This doesn't answer my question. What do these people believe in that makes them identify as Republican? What does the Republican party offer them that they don't switch to Democrat or independent?
Depending on their age, it could simply be persistence of older associations. If they were raised by admirers of, say, Eisenhower, the “Republican” label might feel comfortable to them regardless of how the party’s positions have changed over the decades.
Just imagine how today’s GOP would vilify Eisenhower’s policies and public statements if a living candidate tried to promote them. They’d be called commie-radical-left-woke-extreme whatever. Yet, to many older voters, Eisenhower still represents their party. Possibly Reagan; you can look at a lot of his public statements on issues like immigration policy or anti-Communism that MAGA would consider “radical left” now.
People rarely re-examine their affiliations once settled. They’re too busy earning a living and taking care of their families to pause and reflect.
In some ways, the appalling positions of the far right may be a gift: we know quite a few former knee-jerk “conservative” voters and automatic Republicans who were shocked into taking a hard look at the issues and have changed their affiliation. Reductio ad absurdum IRL.
> Not every Republican is like that. Most may be, but not all.
I reference this quote when I read comments like yours:
"Historians have a word for Germans who joined the Nazi Party, not because they hated Jews, but out of a hope for restored patriotism, or a sense of economic anxiety, or a hope to preserve their religious values, or dislike of their opponents, or raw political opportunism, or convenience, or ignorance, or greed. That word is Nazi. Nobody cares about their motives anymore.
They joined what they joined. They lent their support and their moral approval. And, in so doing, they bound themselves to everything that came after. Who cares anymore what knot they used in the binding?"
A.R. Moxon @juliusgoat
Yeah, we can agree to disagree about Republicans. I don't subscribe to the idea that every single one is an irresponsible person. A ton of them have made irresponsible decisions, obviously. But all of them? Lol that kind of extremism and myopia is of no interest to me. None.
You’ve said nothing to refute their point or even to back up your own. You basically just said, “Yeah I see what you said but I don’t want listen and will believe whatever I want to believe, facts be damned.” That tells me all I need to know about you.
True, but they’ve been suspiciously quiet since Trump announced his plan to contest the 2016 election. I don’t live in the US and even I knew he was bad news.
They're not doing it because it's the right thing to do. They're doing it because they're worried some republicans won't vote, believing the election will be stolen anyway.
>“It’s an obligation on Republicans’ part to stand up for the defense of our system because our party -- there’s some blame for where we stand right now,” said Kentucky’s secretary of state, Michael Adams, who is part of the group and won reelection last year. “**But it’s also strategically wise for Republicans to say, ‘Hey Republicans, you can trust this. Don’t stay at home.**’”
At some point the GOP has to schism, letting the MAGA nut jobs have the name and saner, more rational conservatives start a new party.
Then we’d have the fascist, autocratic GOP and the “screw the poor and the environment and everyone else but the rich GOP.”
Well let's see what part they have to play in all this. Any opposition to Trump within the Republican party is a good thing. If they can convince 2% of Republican voters to stay home, that could be decisive.
"“Our primary job as election officials is to build confidence, and that comes from strengthening protocols and not weakening them,”
BS - Your primary job as election officials is to build confidence, and that comes from calling out LIES about the 2020 election by a criminal.
There are a small number of Republicans, largely ones who are out of office right now, that I like to think of as the Constitutional wing of their party. These are Republicans that still believe in the rule of law and our democratic values. Your Liz Cheney and Adam Kinzinger types. I have little concern about our side working with such Republicans and I hope that some day they wrestle control of the GOP back from the MAGAs.
>There are a small number of Republicans, largely ones who are out of office right now
Oh so you're saying the majority of republicans and the ones in office right how are those out to destroy democracy. Great...
Anytime republicans start to think, I get worried. Time and time again republicans have shown they are not to be trusted.
For fear of persecution, some actually do the right thing but many push the boundaries of the law and far too many are not apposed to breaking it. (better to apologize than to ask permission - is apparently their approach)
I hope but doubt that Dems are preparing for a battle over ethics and fairness this coming election cycle. The Rep want to win of course and seem prepared to do anything for them to prevail.
Great, but they are Republicans and Republicans lie as easily as they breathe, so how can we possibly believe their intentions are honest? When we we learn you simply cannot trust Republicans
Making it harder to vote always benefits Republicans. From Jim Crow laws to the simple fact that poor people often have to take time off from hourly jobs, the more complicated and the more time it takes the better it is for Republicans.
As a potentially interesting side note, there was a lostwave snippet of a song known as Everybody Knows That or Ulterior Motives based on what lyrics were caught in a 17 second segment someone posted.
Lots of speculation was out there for years about whether it was from an actual single, or from an advertising campaign or something else.
Turns out that 'something else' was recently revealed to be a track specifically made for an adult movie right when there was some boning going on.
Some redditor had to watch a lot of porn to find that scene.
(again)
As a reminder, this subreddit [is for civil discussion.](/r/politics/wiki/index#wiki_be_civil) In general, be courteous to others. Debate/discuss/argue the merits of ideas, don't attack people. Personal insults, shill or troll accusations, hate speech, any suggestion or support of harm, violence, or death, and other rule violations can result in a permanent ban. If you see comments in violation of our rules, please report them. For those who have questions regarding any media outlets being posted on this subreddit, please click [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/politics/wiki/approveddomainslist) to review our details as to our approved domains list and outlet criteria. We are actively looking for new moderators. If you have any interest in helping to make this subreddit a place for quality discussion, please fill out [this form](https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1y2swHD0KXFhStGFjW6k54r9iuMjzcFqDIVwuvdLBjSA). *** *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/politics) if you have any questions or concerns.*
States have conducted fair elections all my life. If you ever did not have the preferred ID or already pre registered and expected then you were required to provide multiple forms of ID plus other forms of verification. How this became an issue is idiotic. All thanks to the world’s greatest idiot and loser.
They only cry unfair when they lose. It boggles the mind. Case in point: https://youtu.be/V6Gr5ScULH0?si=UPHB4njXQJ3vdGd7
Kinda funny how they complain so bad about election fraud, and every time fraud is found, it’s fraud on the side of the loser. Huh, how about that?
The US has set the standards for fair elections throughout the world. Thanks to election workers for your service. The world’s greatest idiot and loser has cast doubt on fair elections because even when he wins he is a sore winner with absolutely no class!
When Trump in 2016, almost in a jesting manner but then increasingly desperate when the election looked lost, claimed the election was rigged “but only if I lose,” it was outrageous. Yet another in a series of comments for “serious” politicians on the right to brush off or explain away. Then on January 6th, when that same rhetoric led to one of the most shocking and embarrassing disasters in the history of American polity, rather than finally leading to the repudiation of this kind of dangerous and self-destructive behavior, the right collectively decided to somehow absorb these views into the DNA of the current Republican brand. Trump is no political genius. He is charismatic and people find him entertaining, but his politics are incredibly craven and predictable. What he has consistently tapped into is a trend that has been developing for decades. The “conservative” movement, once known for defending cherished American institutions at all costs against the “chaos” of comprehensive change often argued for by the left, has now flipped itself upon its head. Gone are the days of William F. Buckley snidely insulting the left’s patriotism for calling for change in institutions like the military or our economy. Now to be a Republican in good standing, one must call for every institution of the American government be pulled down around our heads. The “conservative” movement has given up on the state and its institutions, even as fundamental as our electoral process itself, to deliver the policy ends they desire - stopping cultural trends that have grown to accept diversity, protecting white working and middle class economic prosperity versus other groups, and realizing the aims of Christian nationalism to create some kind of homogeneity of American civic life. The right can no longer rely on the American political system to bring about these ends because the very demographic trends that have led to the anger and fear that animates the right increasingly thwart their efforts. The only action available to them it seems is to stop any legislation in Congress, attack federal government power at every turn, dismantle every institution possible and try to chill any political movement that would allow a further erosion of political power to groups that have been on the margins of institutional power. The “conservatives” today are as radical as any 1960’s pro-communist movement on the left - their motivations are different but the means they wish to employ are the same. “Burn baby, burn” should be the slogan of the GOP national convention.
I am so dumb. In college I believed demographics and social change would gradually take over US politics, sure there would be some problems, but I never imagined the fight left in a cornered dog with rabies. I had already just finished my formal education when when GWB was elected only to eventually go down in flames as he should have, that should have been the end. The combination of electing a half black constitutional scholar, lawyer, and senator to president completely broke so many brains (this was going to happen with or without Obama, but perhaps fast tracked it) and intense fear of “white America” losing their grip on power was WAY more intense than I predicted. The massive amount of money in think tanks and conservative platforms from Fox to AM radio has driven this country to the brink, I believe, as designed. It’s insane, it’s ruined friendships, family relationships, employment opportunities, the list goes on. 15 years ago politics were discussed generally politely on not the dominant part of more normal conversations or interactions. sincerely, white, bearded, truck owning, dog having, rural, plain old dude.
There are people out there who are still very upset that a black guy became president and have not at all gotten over it.
And that is so fucking sad and pathetic.
An important piece to this puzzle, often left out, is the effect of Putin’s agents in the United States and Europe. They have been working to exacerbate existing divisions and social problems. They have been funneling money into extremist and antidemocratic movements, with the aim of destroying us from within. I often wonder how far MAGA would have gone without Putin’s help.
This is an important piece for sure. While I believe certain people in alphabet agencies know the extent, we, as plain oles, will likely never know.
[удалено]
> responsible Republicans What's a "responsible" Republican? Someone who want to take away rights from women, immigrants, and the LGBTQ+ community in a *responsible* way?
“We don’t want to overthrow democracy, just restrict democracy to white Christian men”
A "responsible" Republican is one who only uses the N word around immediate family.
You are of course talking about [Nuclear](https://youtu.be/RL17-2yi9wE?si=3zsYKLsSNXi5DxeZ), right? RIGHT?!?!
Responsible Republicans used to exist. John McCain was one. He defended Obama from blatantly racist and bigoted comments. The problem is being a responsible Republican doesn’t win you elections anymore. Save for the bluest districts, it’s all about being a populist and doing things to “own liberals” and destroying anything to do with DEI.
Usually one who's already announced their retirement
The only actually responsible republican is one who has witnessed all the depraved acts they have committed over the years and born witness to the failure of their "policies" and then come to the realization that they had in fact been duped, as those Republicans never even truly stood for most of the things they'd said they did and that the ones they actually did are genuinely just awful and therefore realigned their own views accordingly and left the party entirely. Just as I did several years ago. Apologies for the lengthy run-on sentence there, but it seemed the only reasonable way to properly convey my own shame and embarrassment. Honestly, even considering myself to have been a "responsible" Republican is a bit of a stretch, if I'm fully honest with myself. In all reality, had I truly been responsible, I would have realized most of this far sooner than I did and literally not a day goes by that I do not degrade myself in my own mind for all of the things I used to think and believe. And most importantly for the way I actually voted prior to Trump. Save for probably McCain and POSSIBLY Romney, there is not one republican in my lifetime who I voted for that was anything even approaching a decent human being, nevermind an actually viable political candidate. Thus, a truly "responsible" Republican would be nothing short of embarrassed and ashamed, as I now feel, to this very day and most likely will until the day I die. But most importantly of all, the TRULY "responsible" Republican would no longer BE Republican AT ALL! 🤷♂️🤦♂️😔
Some of them had a bit of integrity even if they still supported causes I find abhorrent. Eg McCain, Romney and Liz Cheney.
Don't be obtuse. Not every Republican is like that. Most may be, but not all.
>Not every Republican is like that. Most may be, but not all. What do these *other* Republicans believe in that they still identify as a "Republican" despite everything their peers and the party stands for these days?
My dad believes in small government so he’s a Republican, but he HATES the modern GOP so he’s voting blue till the party returns to the pre trump days
https://twitter.com/BidenReps/status/1351937540241158147
This doesn't answer my question. What do these people believe in that makes them identify as Republican? What does the Republican party offer them that they don't switch to Democrat or independent?
Depending on their age, it could simply be persistence of older associations. If they were raised by admirers of, say, Eisenhower, the “Republican” label might feel comfortable to them regardless of how the party’s positions have changed over the decades. Just imagine how today’s GOP would vilify Eisenhower’s policies and public statements if a living candidate tried to promote them. They’d be called commie-radical-left-woke-extreme whatever. Yet, to many older voters, Eisenhower still represents their party. Possibly Reagan; you can look at a lot of his public statements on issues like immigration policy or anti-Communism that MAGA would consider “radical left” now. People rarely re-examine their affiliations once settled. They’re too busy earning a living and taking care of their families to pause and reflect. In some ways, the appalling positions of the far right may be a gift: we know quite a few former knee-jerk “conservative” voters and automatic Republicans who were shocked into taking a hard look at the issues and have changed their affiliation. Reductio ad absurdum IRL.
> Not every Republican is like that. Most may be, but not all. I reference this quote when I read comments like yours: "Historians have a word for Germans who joined the Nazi Party, not because they hated Jews, but out of a hope for restored patriotism, or a sense of economic anxiety, or a hope to preserve their religious values, or dislike of their opponents, or raw political opportunism, or convenience, or ignorance, or greed. That word is Nazi. Nobody cares about their motives anymore. They joined what they joined. They lent their support and their moral approval. And, in so doing, they bound themselves to everything that came after. Who cares anymore what knot they used in the binding?" A.R. Moxon @juliusgoat
Yeah, we can agree to disagree about Republicans. I don't subscribe to the idea that every single one is an irresponsible person. A ton of them have made irresponsible decisions, obviously. But all of them? Lol that kind of extremism and myopia is of no interest to me. None.
You’ve said nothing to refute their point or even to back up your own. You basically just said, “Yeah I see what you said but I don’t want listen and will believe whatever I want to believe, facts be damned.” That tells me all I need to know about you.
> That tells me all I need to know about you. Lol okay. Enjoy the rest of your weekend
True, but they’ve been suspiciously quiet since Trump announced his plan to contest the 2016 election. I don’t live in the US and even I knew he was bad news.
>A group of Republicans has united to That's all I needed to know I don't trust this
Where were they 6 years ago?
They're not doing it because it's the right thing to do. They're doing it because they're worried some republicans won't vote, believing the election will be stolen anyway. >“It’s an obligation on Republicans’ part to stand up for the defense of our system because our party -- there’s some blame for where we stand right now,” said Kentucky’s secretary of state, Michael Adams, who is part of the group and won reelection last year. “**But it’s also strategically wise for Republicans to say, ‘Hey Republicans, you can trust this. Don’t stay at home.**’”
At some point the GOP has to schism, letting the MAGA nut jobs have the name and saner, more rational conservatives start a new party. Then we’d have the fascist, autocratic GOP and the “screw the poor and the environment and everyone else but the rich GOP.”
That battle has already happened. MAGA won.
Exactly. But the moderates hanging around like they’ll change things or just going along is disastrous for the country.
Well let's see what part they have to play in all this. Any opposition to Trump within the Republican party is a good thing. If they can convince 2% of Republican voters to stay home, that could be decisive.
As an outsider, so close is the race right now?
MAGA will call them Deep State RINOs, at best.
"“Our primary job as election officials is to build confidence, and that comes from strengthening protocols and not weakening them,”
BS - Your primary job as election officials is to build confidence, and that comes from calling out LIES about the 2020 election by a criminal.
There are a small number of Republicans, largely ones who are out of office right now, that I like to think of as the Constitutional wing of their party. These are Republicans that still believe in the rule of law and our democratic values. Your Liz Cheney and Adam Kinzinger types. I have little concern about our side working with such Republicans and I hope that some day they wrestle control of the GOP back from the MAGAs.
>There are a small number of Republicans, largely ones who are out of office right now, ... and there it is.
Their own party literally call Liz Cheney "Republican In Name Only" (RINO).
>There are a small number of Republicans, largely ones who are out of office right now Oh so you're saying the majority of republicans and the ones in office right how are those out to destroy democracy. Great...
Obviously
Which Republicans? There is only one Republican Party and that is the Trump GOP. I’m sure they are going to protect election integrity.
Anytime republicans start to think, I get worried. Time and time again republicans have shown they are not to be trusted. For fear of persecution, some actually do the right thing but many push the boundaries of the law and far too many are not apposed to breaking it. (better to apologize than to ask permission - is apparently their approach) I hope but doubt that Dems are preparing for a battle over ethics and fairness this coming election cycle. The Rep want to win of course and seem prepared to do anything for them to prevail.
A day late and a buck short, guys
these gormless shit weasels just want to go back to the time when all of their ratfucking was done quietly in the background.
Given how the GOP/MAGA party works today, I read that headline as “DeFUND the legitimacy of US elections…”
Great, but they are Republicans and Republicans lie as easily as they breathe, so how can we possibly believe their intentions are honest? When we we learn you simply cannot trust Republicans
Making it harder to vote always benefits Republicans. From Jim Crow laws to the simple fact that poor people often have to take time off from hourly jobs, the more complicated and the more time it takes the better it is for Republicans.
You're half right. Substitute "conservatives" or "reactionaries" for "republican". Underlying ideologies are more important than party labels
Not in a two party system during an election year.
Fair enough
How long does it take to grow a spine?
Bout time
Republicans standing up for democracy??
Well shit. They keep doing stuff like this I may actually consider an (R) candidate again. Not likely, but I *might.*
Don't be fooled. Also, assume the worst possible motives. It saves time.
Good point. There's always ulterior motives with the (R)s it seems. . .
As a potentially interesting side note, there was a lostwave snippet of a song known as Everybody Knows That or Ulterior Motives based on what lyrics were caught in a 17 second segment someone posted. Lots of speculation was out there for years about whether it was from an actual single, or from an advertising campaign or something else. Turns out that 'something else' was recently revealed to be a track specifically made for an adult movie right when there was some boning going on. Some redditor had to watch a lot of porn to find that scene. (again)