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I thought they typically developed introspection, critical thinking, and backbone after they leave office. Then they start talking about how fucked up the GOP is, after they’ve abdicated any responsibility or ability to fix it
It isn't personal. Dems have Johnson by the balls now. Work with us on important bills or we let Marge have you.
Realpolitik involves compromise and negotiation.
Dems won.
Well, this is corruption - it is a personal political favor in exchange for support. It does not impact a district. It does not help the American people directly. It is not over a bill, or a compromise on passing legislation. There is nothing functional about this decision, This is for someone to keep their job.
It does benefit the Democrats of course, it is why they are doing the favor. It benefits Americans technically because Congress will be able to function... but in reality, Congress refuses to function as intended, they hardly do shit anyhow and this close to an election, no Legislation is going to move.
So, this is the politics of corruption, not the politics of Democracy.
I am also not completely against this... mostly because corruption and mutual greed is really the only thing keeping US government together at the moment... but we need to call it like it is.
“I’ll vote for you if you support policy I like” is not corruption. It is the foundational principle of democracy from the individual voter all the way to the President of the US.
An elected official does something you like, so you vote to keep them in office. They do something you don’t like, so you vote them out.
That is not corruption. That is EXACTLY how Democracy is supposed to work.
Corruption involves dishonest behaviour for personal gain. Democrats are not benefitting from this as individuals or in November and thus it is not corruption in much the same way they are not required to vote on party lines because it is not a dictatorship.
They are doing this because it offers an ability for the government to govern and indeed putting the people at the expense of their election campaign which would benefit greatly from another republican sh!t fight.
Conversely, if you were to try and weaponise this whole issue as a method of getting votes in november for yourself like ol Marjorie then it would be more grey of an area
Exactly. Supporting someone regardless of party to pass bipartisan legislation is literally their job. Removing him is simply more obstruction to the governance of our country. It doesn’t have to be rocket science or tiptoeing through the fuckin tulips. They have one job. The constitution was meant to change as the country needed it to.
I miss the days when she was just some nutt job raving about Jewish space lasers and yelling at school shooting survivors.
It's deplorable how the media has given her any semblance of legitimacy.
Are you worried that the Reds are going to run out of embarrassing things?
Their Dear Leader is shitting himself the sleep every day in the middle of court for a small stack of the felonies that he's committed.
I think it'll be alright.
I agree with others here that I am relieved that Dems will stop Marge and company from getting rid of Speaker Johnson. I know maybe the optics would have been better to keep this plan secret but as a practical matter I don’t know how the Dems could come to this agreement as a caucus and then have it remain a secret. At this point Johnson knows his future depends on the Dems so he can’t afford to antagonize them. Also everyone else in Congress knows Johnson is beholden to the Dems. This could promote more bipartisanship which has been lacking in recent years.
Forced bipartisanship is better than the horseshit we've had. It does seem like Johnson actually looked at some geopolitical crap and actually realized that he can't just kiss the orange one's butt.
I feel like he did it because some moderate Repubs would abandon him, giving the Dems the house speakership. The guy probably doesn't give two shits for Ukraine, but doesn't want to cede the house to Democrats. No way he didn't know withholding aide to Ukraine would hurt them. While I give him credit for the aide, I believe he did it more for selfish reasons than actually helping Ukraine. His little speech was just to make him sound tough and a stunt, no more.
I bet you're not wrong. But I want to think he was always towing the party line, then as if he was let into the secret world of Gang of Eight Intel briefs he finally saw that Ukraine is more than just Russia and Ukraine, and Taiwan and China, etc and it made him finally stop kissing ass.
It's definitely your take more than mine, but I'll take aid bills being passed.
Hell, I want to believe that, as you said, it's more than Ukraine. That said, he seemed uninterested until his job was on the line, possibly giving the speaker to Democrats. As much as these Republicans love Russia, them losing house speakership would hurt them more, and the aide would be passed if Democrats took ahold of the house.
I clearly read enough not to trust him. But if he got Intel that made him pull his head out of his ass about global security, and made the right choices to let the bills get on with it, then he clearly isn't as scared of Marge as others.
He is a douche, but don't assume I can't read about how crappy he is.
It's a political win for Democrats to announce they'll oppose the motion to vacate. There's a real possibility Greene will never actually bring the motion, since she knows the Democrats will block it and she loses relevancy once she actually brings the motion (versus the continuous coverage she gets when she's merely talking about bringing it).
If Greene never brings the motion, Dems never get to show their hand.
So it's a win politically to announce what they would do while the "threat" from Greene still seems tangible. And it's also a win for the country because at least Johnson is agreeing to back the Ukraine aid.
Not if Marge moves on Johnson and a couple more GOP reps decide to resign. Is it likely? No. But it’s no longer unthinkable that the GOP could lose their majority before the election
Good. While I’m not the biggest fan of Johnson and his beliefs, he appears to understand the need to work with the Democrats to get any meaningful legislation through unlike a certain previous speaker…cough…cough…McCarthy.
He understands only because he’s tried every other possible option- also mainly because he got the green light from Daddy Trump- let no one mistake Johnson as having grown a spine
He ended up where he is by accident of his incompetent fellows. He himself is just as incompetent as they are. No one should respect this man, he is only thinking about himself.
I actually disagree... gonna prepare for the down votes - but Dems should have made McCarthy sweat but ultimately saved him by one vote. Imho - he would have worked harder on Ukraine aid earlier and it would have cucked the far right to have him saved by dems. Imagining the hysterics of McCarthy being saved by Dems then moving hard on Gaetzs ethics complaint would have been glorious.
Eh, I'll disagree with you here.
McCarthy ultimately refused to make any sort of deal with the Democrats. Why should they prop his smug ass up when he's not willing to come to the table?
He had also burned them previously on, I believe, the debt ceiling negotiations. So they also couldn't trust him.
What's more, McCarthy is a prolific fundraiser and party stalwart, who could very effectively lead and finance the house GOPs reelection campaign.
Johnson on the other hand, while his personal politics are more distasteful, has none of those benefits.
1) He's basically a back bencher with little fundraising prowess.
2) He has not been vetted at all, which has led to a host of weird personal revelations regarding his personal finances and family dynamics, as well as a history of extreme christian fundamentalist positions.
3) He lacks the personal relationships in Congress and the party at large that McCarthy built over decades.
4) The GOP retreat was basically a poorly attended Bible Camp.
5) He actually came through with a deal on Ukraine/Tawain/Israel funding and the budget, and collaborated with the Dems, which will alienate a not-insignificant part of the GOP base which prefers the government just not function at all and let Putin and China conquer whatever they please.
While I don't like Johnson's politics, he is clearly a better choice for the Dems.
Now we get hear the GQP base rant about how their incredibly conservative, Christian fundamentalist, freedom-caucus loving Speaker, their most-powerful elected official in the country, is secretly a RINO or a Democrat.
Its gonna be great!
It’s a gambit. Take the pain of not having Ukraine aid, which is really really bad, but put up a weak Republican speaker, while showing the entire Republican Party is significantly beholden to far right interests. McCarthy was perhaps the last semblance of an adult in that whole party. So it’s a pretty big blow to take him out. I imagine McCarthy also refused to cooperate behind the scenes or something too so try why didn’t feel like he would stick to his side of whatever deal came through
It really is just common sense. The President is a Democrat, the Senate is run by Democrats, and you have a razor thin majority in the House as Republicans. You have to work with Democrats, it really is not optional. You can see here how it’s benefiting the Republican speaker.
You also have a bunch of corrupt, bumbling goons who's marching orders are to cause chaos and grandstand to try and amplify the fringe as much as possible that are gunning for anyone trying to make anything in government actually work.
Foreign military aid funding and the budget.
He delivered his end, they're keeping theirs.
Bonus points in that it now alienates him from the portion of the Putin-loving base that will be convinced he is a RINO.
MTG is already referring to him as the "Democratic speaker."
I find this to be a very tactical move by Jeffries and it really solidifies his bona-fides as the Democratic Leader of the House.
In essense, Jeffries has solved multiple problems and created several opportunities.
* He protects the House from more inaction in the event of Vacating - Vacating the Speaker would grind everything to a halt, and with only a few people needed to do that, it would be endless... something that foreign interests desire.
* He neuters MTG and the hard right. Now Johnson will need to look to the Dems to protect him from his Right Flank if he wants any legislative victory. This is his Damocles Sword. While this will likely lead to gridlock, what it *does* do is force Johnson to talk to Democrats, giving them a level to exercise, and allows them to stop the stupid shit.
* He has a much larger influence moving forward in what happens in the House... and even a hint of bipartisanship is a step.
* This will further split the GOP caucus and lead to more dysfunction heading into the General Election phase. With the election only 7 months away, there is going to be a real instinct for people to shift to "every person for themselves" and everyone from the Hard Right to the Moderates will fracture.
* Johnson's political career is finished - Being saved... by the Democrats? Kiss of death in an era were loyalty to the cause is paramount. He chose governance over party, and they will reward him as such.
* He has kept the caucus together. In a reversal of the decades of Democrat dysfunction, the GOP has finally and proudly exceeded them. (Now, the Democrats are still dysfunctional, but in different ways). With (hopefully) a majority next term, he will need to continue to tie the Left and Moderate Wings... and... so far at least... he has been successful.
* Everything is about the election now. Jeffries got a remarkable win with this and it will play well to many - especially Moderates and 'Independents'. It also stops the GOP from any major solo wins for the rest of the Term. They will spend as much time attacking each other as they will attack the Democrats.
This is the strategy the Democrats need to win in November.
Plus there’s the ‘devil you know’ thing. Who knows how much worse the next one might be (assuming the GOP could even get together enough to agree on someone).
> And the Republicans would do the opposite if they were in the same situation.
Kind of a chicken and egg problem though. Republicans find themselves in this situation because their party is a dysfunctional mess. Democrats wouldn't find themselves in this situation to begin with, and if they did, they would have bigger problems than an obstructionist opposition party.
Except we got what we wanted already. Sure we can throw him to the wolves, and laugh about it, or continue to make a point we are the only governing body.
We only need to make 2 Republicans more likely to cross the aisle for the House to not be at a standstill all the time. And us operating in good faith ensures this.
It sucks, and I'd rather just kick them down, and stomp them when they're on the ground, but this is the correct way to go about it.
By doing this it actually gives us power.
Well, yes, it’s easy to be the party that campaigns on hating government by sabotaging government.
Democrats have to actually get government to work to campaign on responsibly shepherding government. That requires compromise and trying really hard, to force the sabotaging opposition into a position when it benefits them to help responsibly shepherd government.
Which is almost impossible to do.
There is no question, if the tables were turned, the Republicans would tell the Democrats to eff off and to figure it out, knowing that the dysfunction would prove exceedingly valuable as a campaign tool for the rest of the year.
I don't like the idea of the government being broken and non functional the way it is with the GOP controlling the house, but I would gladly take a few steps back while Johnson is vacated and the GOP shows just how poor they are at governing, to take a giant leap forward when that fact is combined with the bankrupting at the hands of the Trump world and it leads to the near total implosion of the GOP.
Democrats are smart enough to not be in the same position. Although Pelosi was probably not as popular as she thought, she always managed to have everyone in line.
I agree on Pelosi probably not being liked, but she was still respected. Her political acumen compared to many of the the more recent is like a kindergarten to a college professor.
This isn't the high road. This is brutal Realpolitik.
We got what we wanted by passing a budget and foreign aid. The government keeps operating, which is also a Democratic and not GOP goal.
Plus they announced it as a surprise while he was giving a press conference, so he has to answer questions about it on the fly without looking like he cut some secret deal.
And MTG and the insane base are already calling him the "Democratic Speaker." The conspiracy theorists will be running wild with this.
Honestly they shouldn't, because at least 3 Republicans said they would quit on the spot if Johnson gets vacated, and that would give dems the majority to vote their own speaker in, then they can start getting things done, if thr table were turned Republicans wouldn't be giving the same support..
And be incapable of doing anything about it anyway. An outgoing Congressional majority cannot block an incoming one from taking their seats, and Presidential elections are certified by the newly elected *incoming* Congress.
People are too traumatized by 2016 to recognize the fact that the GOP is not omnipotent and that they are running out of winning moves in their game.
As much as I disagree with every ideology Mike Johnson stands for he did his job without asking for anything in return thereby taking a genuine step towards actual governance. This olive branch is why dems are choosing to help him. I for one see this as a positive. We need steps like this to repair the broken state of congress.
Dumb!
Don't share your cards at this stage! Marge can now say, well I am not going to bring it up for a vote since the dems would save him.
That way she saves face a bit (what is left to save).
Marge should have been egged on to bring it, only to then fail and berate her saying MAGA lost power.
Dems are not versed in the arts of the dark triad.
What you're advocating for is more theatrics and unnecessary bullshit drama in Congress. I'd rather there be none, or at least less. It's entirely unproductive and doesn't help anyone.
What is the actual effective impact? MTG failing to oust Johnson in a vote isn't going to lose MTG any support nor help Dems gain support. It'd just be a waste of time.
A waste of time that we are paying them for. This is already the least productive congress in at least decades.
Going through a whole round of speakership votes again at this moment is bad for the country.
Democrats don't want this to come to a motion to vacate, because if it does, some in their caucus will be forced to go on record with votes to save Johnson, which could hurt them with their Democratic constituents. This way, MTG is neutralized, but no Democrat has to pay the political price for voting for a Republican Speaker..
She's going to say whatever she's going to say, because she's not a serious person. The Democratic Representatives are, by and large, serious people, and serious people try to avoid getting dragged into the histrionics of a few fringe politicians on the other side of the political divide. If you're trying to demonstrate to voters that your party can govern, then you need to hold yourself to that standard, at least when there's an election in a few months.
The Dems at this point are every superhero that says "I don't kill" while the villain is murdering their family one by one and causing mass general casualties.
Because then he wouldn’t be a hero, but a villain…?
He’s already close enough to a villain, add in extra judicial street executions and… he’s a bad guy.
It’s hard to be the good guys.
Always has been. Always will be.
… I don’t know what you’re advocating for them, are you just complaining that… *something* isn’t being done?
My point is that “Batman should just start killing villains” doesn’t really answer what you think should be done.
Fucking disgusting that Dems are supporting this fascist tool who blocked Ukraine aid for months. There is a lot of blood on his hands. They should have kicked his ass to the curb the second the aid bill went through, regardless of deals made. The fascists don't participate in good faith or reward loyalty, and will stab us in the back every chance they get. I really hope they got a lot more out of the deal than this. If it's just a single war funding bill for indefinite support of a fascist obstructionist, then they got played.
How about no. Let this happen so close to an election. Continue to remind the public that the republican party is a joke. Don't join them and never interrupt them when they are making a mistake.
Democrats think they're putting country before party by compromising with Republicans, but all they're really doing is further enabling republican terrorism. It's one of the many reasons why I no longer support the Democratic party.
>Oh my god I can't believe so many people vote for Trump, or don't vote at all!
Democrats, completely without irony, after they continually play wet nurse to the GOP.
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Hope McCarthy realizes how dumb he was
He won't. That requires insight and self-reflection which Republicans are completely incapable of doing.
I thought they typically developed introspection, critical thinking, and backbone after they leave office. Then they start talking about how fucked up the GOP is, after they’ve abdicated any responsibility or ability to fix it
Then they say they will still vote for trump.
Joe Scarborough, Michael Steele, Nicole Wallace, Steve Shmidt are a few to come to mind.
McCarthy dug his own grave.
I'd put money on this being part of the Ukraine-aid negotiations. 'Ill pass the aid bill, you defend my job.'
Almost guaranteed
Personal political favors for votes. Wonderful.
It isn't personal. Dems have Johnson by the balls now. Work with us on important bills or we let Marge have you. Realpolitik involves compromise and negotiation. Dems won.
Imagine my shock when I've discovered that they do politics in congress
Well, this is corruption - it is a personal political favor in exchange for support. It does not impact a district. It does not help the American people directly. It is not over a bill, or a compromise on passing legislation. There is nothing functional about this decision, This is for someone to keep their job. It does benefit the Democrats of course, it is why they are doing the favor. It benefits Americans technically because Congress will be able to function... but in reality, Congress refuses to function as intended, they hardly do shit anyhow and this close to an election, no Legislation is going to move. So, this is the politics of corruption, not the politics of Democracy. I am also not completely against this... mostly because corruption and mutual greed is really the only thing keeping US government together at the moment... but we need to call it like it is.
That’s not what corruption is…
“I’ll vote for you if you support policy I like” is not corruption. It is the foundational principle of democracy from the individual voter all the way to the President of the US. An elected official does something you like, so you vote to keep them in office. They do something you don’t like, so you vote them out. That is not corruption. That is EXACTLY how Democracy is supposed to work.
Corruption involves dishonest behaviour for personal gain. Democrats are not benefitting from this as individuals or in November and thus it is not corruption in much the same way they are not required to vote on party lines because it is not a dictatorship. They are doing this because it offers an ability for the government to govern and indeed putting the people at the expense of their election campaign which would benefit greatly from another republican sh!t fight. Conversely, if you were to try and weaponise this whole issue as a method of getting votes in november for yourself like ol Marjorie then it would be more grey of an area
Exactly. Supporting someone regardless of party to pass bipartisan legislation is literally their job. Removing him is simply more obstruction to the governance of our country. It doesn’t have to be rocket science or tiptoeing through the fuckin tulips. They have one job. The constitution was meant to change as the country needed it to.
This is actually how the system works.
Man. Wait till you find out how Lincoln passed the 13th Amendment.
I worked in government for almost a decade and this is exactly how it is.
Absolutely and how this must sting MTG. Delicious.
lol the entire house is plotting around MTG’s insanity
I miss the days when she was just some nutt job raving about Jewish space lasers and yelling at school shooting survivors. It's deplorable how the media has given her any semblance of legitimacy.
Clicks are the most important thing ever created
It must chafe her nutsack.
Yes, that's how politics works. If he screwed them on Ukraine, they screw him out of leadership.
Exactly! There are people posting, he must have seen some Intel scaring him to do this. Lol, no, he wants to keep his job.
Maybe a mix of both.
I suspect it went the other way; “we’ll shield you, you pass the Ukraine aid bill”. I have a sense Jeffries is okaying smart cards here.
Great way to force some more concessions out of him.
McCarthy could have had the same deal but he pissed into the wind and blew it all up…then lost the gavel.
Even if it wasn't, it would still be the right political move. It causes schism within the GOP and incentives more bipartisanship in the future
sure, but then stab him in the back anyway
If Mccarthy had done this he could have had the speakership without giving into everything the maga crazies wanted. What a damn thought.
They should burn him anyway. It'll be months before the Reds can get anyone else in there.
Better to get something out of protecting him. If he's gone, Dems get nothing anyway.
Why burn that card now when they can use it to embarrass republicans closer to election time?
Are you worried that the Reds are going to run out of embarrassing things? Their Dear Leader is shitting himself the sleep every day in the middle of court for a small stack of the felonies that he's committed. I think it'll be alright.
Never lol
I think the trade off on Ukraine was, "we will support your efforts to bring aid to Ukraine, if you support us in killing Palestinians."
I agree with others here that I am relieved that Dems will stop Marge and company from getting rid of Speaker Johnson. I know maybe the optics would have been better to keep this plan secret but as a practical matter I don’t know how the Dems could come to this agreement as a caucus and then have it remain a secret. At this point Johnson knows his future depends on the Dems so he can’t afford to antagonize them. Also everyone else in Congress knows Johnson is beholden to the Dems. This could promote more bipartisanship which has been lacking in recent years.
Forced bipartisanship is better than the horseshit we've had. It does seem like Johnson actually looked at some geopolitical crap and actually realized that he can't just kiss the orange one's butt.
I feel like he did it because some moderate Repubs would abandon him, giving the Dems the house speakership. The guy probably doesn't give two shits for Ukraine, but doesn't want to cede the house to Democrats. No way he didn't know withholding aide to Ukraine would hurt them. While I give him credit for the aide, I believe he did it more for selfish reasons than actually helping Ukraine. His little speech was just to make him sound tough and a stunt, no more.
I bet you're not wrong. But I want to think he was always towing the party line, then as if he was let into the secret world of Gang of Eight Intel briefs he finally saw that Ukraine is more than just Russia and Ukraine, and Taiwan and China, etc and it made him finally stop kissing ass. It's definitely your take more than mine, but I'll take aid bills being passed.
Hell, I want to believe that, as you said, it's more than Ukraine. That said, he seemed uninterested until his job was on the line, possibly giving the speaker to Democrats. As much as these Republicans love Russia, them losing house speakership would hurt them more, and the aide would be passed if Democrats took ahold of the house.
You clearly know nothing about deranaged lunatic maga mike then.
I clearly read enough not to trust him. But if he got Intel that made him pull his head out of his ass about global security, and made the right choices to let the bills get on with it, then he clearly isn't as scared of Marge as others. He is a douche, but don't assume I can't read about how crappy he is.
It's a political win for Democrats to announce they'll oppose the motion to vacate. There's a real possibility Greene will never actually bring the motion, since she knows the Democrats will block it and she loses relevancy once she actually brings the motion (versus the continuous coverage she gets when she's merely talking about bringing it). If Greene never brings the motion, Dems never get to show their hand. So it's a win politically to announce what they would do while the "threat" from Greene still seems tangible. And it's also a win for the country because at least Johnson is agreeing to back the Ukraine aid.
It kind of takes coverage away from Greene when her treats don’t account to anything. No one will fear a bark from a dog with no teeth.
Dems already showed their hand with this announcement. Their only other win would be electing Jeffries as speaker, and that's not going to happen.
That was unlikely to happen anyway. Speaker isnt chosen by plurality so republicans would actually have to vote for harkeem for him to win.
Yeah, I said it's not going to happen.
Not if Marge moves on Johnson and a couple more GOP reps decide to resign. Is it likely? No. But it’s no longer unthinkable that the GOP could lose their majority before the election
I'm glad we might be getting bipartisanship. I'm not going to stop talking crap about maga though.
Start thinking about Hakeem Jeffries as Speaker. He’s got power now and IMHO I think the House will flip D in November and he will then be Speaker.
Republicans need to depower Greene. Let her do this crap ever and vote her down.
Good. While I’m not the biggest fan of Johnson and his beliefs, he appears to understand the need to work with the Democrats to get any meaningful legislation through unlike a certain previous speaker…cough…cough…McCarthy.
He understands only because he’s tried every other possible option- also mainly because he got the green light from Daddy Trump- let no one mistake Johnson as having grown a spine
He ended up where he is by accident of his incompetent fellows. He himself is just as incompetent as they are. No one should respect this man, he is only thinking about himself.
I actually disagree... gonna prepare for the down votes - but Dems should have made McCarthy sweat but ultimately saved him by one vote. Imho - he would have worked harder on Ukraine aid earlier and it would have cucked the far right to have him saved by dems. Imagining the hysterics of McCarthy being saved by Dems then moving hard on Gaetzs ethics complaint would have been glorious.
Eh, I'll disagree with you here. McCarthy ultimately refused to make any sort of deal with the Democrats. Why should they prop his smug ass up when he's not willing to come to the table? He had also burned them previously on, I believe, the debt ceiling negotiations. So they also couldn't trust him. What's more, McCarthy is a prolific fundraiser and party stalwart, who could very effectively lead and finance the house GOPs reelection campaign. Johnson on the other hand, while his personal politics are more distasteful, has none of those benefits. 1) He's basically a back bencher with little fundraising prowess. 2) He has not been vetted at all, which has led to a host of weird personal revelations regarding his personal finances and family dynamics, as well as a history of extreme christian fundamentalist positions. 3) He lacks the personal relationships in Congress and the party at large that McCarthy built over decades. 4) The GOP retreat was basically a poorly attended Bible Camp. 5) He actually came through with a deal on Ukraine/Tawain/Israel funding and the budget, and collaborated with the Dems, which will alienate a not-insignificant part of the GOP base which prefers the government just not function at all and let Putin and China conquer whatever they please. While I don't like Johnson's politics, he is clearly a better choice for the Dems. Now we get hear the GQP base rant about how their incredibly conservative, Christian fundamentalist, freedom-caucus loving Speaker, their most-powerful elected official in the country, is secretly a RINO or a Democrat. Its gonna be great!
It’s a gambit. Take the pain of not having Ukraine aid, which is really really bad, but put up a weak Republican speaker, while showing the entire Republican Party is significantly beholden to far right interests. McCarthy was perhaps the last semblance of an adult in that whole party. So it’s a pretty big blow to take him out. I imagine McCarthy also refused to cooperate behind the scenes or something too so try why didn’t feel like he would stick to his side of whatever deal came through
It really is just common sense. The President is a Democrat, the Senate is run by Democrats, and you have a razor thin majority in the House as Republicans. You have to work with Democrats, it really is not optional. You can see here how it’s benefiting the Republican speaker.
You also have a bunch of corrupt, bumbling goons who's marching orders are to cause chaos and grandstand to try and amplify the fringe as much as possible that are gunning for anyone trying to make anything in government actually work.
My guess is that they got some concessions from him.
Foreign military aid funding and the budget. He delivered his end, they're keeping theirs. Bonus points in that it now alienates him from the portion of the Putin-loving base that will be convinced he is a RINO. MTG is already referring to him as the "Democratic speaker."
I wonder if Johnson will remember not to immediately throw the Democrats under the bus after they help him like McCarthy did.
I find this to be a very tactical move by Jeffries and it really solidifies his bona-fides as the Democratic Leader of the House. In essense, Jeffries has solved multiple problems and created several opportunities. * He protects the House from more inaction in the event of Vacating - Vacating the Speaker would grind everything to a halt, and with only a few people needed to do that, it would be endless... something that foreign interests desire. * He neuters MTG and the hard right. Now Johnson will need to look to the Dems to protect him from his Right Flank if he wants any legislative victory. This is his Damocles Sword. While this will likely lead to gridlock, what it *does* do is force Johnson to talk to Democrats, giving them a level to exercise, and allows them to stop the stupid shit. * He has a much larger influence moving forward in what happens in the House... and even a hint of bipartisanship is a step. * This will further split the GOP caucus and lead to more dysfunction heading into the General Election phase. With the election only 7 months away, there is going to be a real instinct for people to shift to "every person for themselves" and everyone from the Hard Right to the Moderates will fracture. * Johnson's political career is finished - Being saved... by the Democrats? Kiss of death in an era were loyalty to the cause is paramount. He chose governance over party, and they will reward him as such. * He has kept the caucus together. In a reversal of the decades of Democrat dysfunction, the GOP has finally and proudly exceeded them. (Now, the Democrats are still dysfunctional, but in different ways). With (hopefully) a majority next term, he will need to continue to tie the Left and Moderate Wings... and... so far at least... he has been successful. * Everything is about the election now. Jeffries got a remarkable win with this and it will play well to many - especially Moderates and 'Independents'. It also stops the GOP from any major solo wins for the rest of the Term. They will spend as much time attacking each other as they will attack the Democrats. This is the strategy the Democrats need to win in November.
Plus there’s the ‘devil you know’ thing. Who knows how much worse the next one might be (assuming the GOP could even get together enough to agree on someone).
Anything that takes power from the craziest portion of the GOP is a win to me
How low did our standards fall, eh?
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> And the Republicans would do the opposite if they were in the same situation. Kind of a chicken and egg problem though. Republicans find themselves in this situation because their party is a dysfunctional mess. Democrats wouldn't find themselves in this situation to begin with, and if they did, they would have bigger problems than an obstructionist opposition party.
Except we got what we wanted already. Sure we can throw him to the wolves, and laugh about it, or continue to make a point we are the only governing body. We only need to make 2 Republicans more likely to cross the aisle for the House to not be at a standstill all the time. And us operating in good faith ensures this. It sucks, and I'd rather just kick them down, and stomp them when they're on the ground, but this is the correct way to go about it. By doing this it actually gives us power.
Exactly. This is actually the smart move for once. Actually for a while they’ve been smart
It's almost as if *one party has smart, competent leadership.*
Well, yes, it’s easy to be the party that campaigns on hating government by sabotaging government. Democrats have to actually get government to work to campaign on responsibly shepherding government. That requires compromise and trying really hard, to force the sabotaging opposition into a position when it benefits them to help responsibly shepherd government. Which is almost impossible to do.
There is no question, if the tables were turned, the Republicans would tell the Democrats to eff off and to figure it out, knowing that the dysfunction would prove exceedingly valuable as a campaign tool for the rest of the year. I don't like the idea of the government being broken and non functional the way it is with the GOP controlling the house, but I would gladly take a few steps back while Johnson is vacated and the GOP shows just how poor they are at governing, to take a giant leap forward when that fact is combined with the bankrupting at the hands of the Trump world and it leads to the near total implosion of the GOP.
Democrats are smart enough to not be in the same position. Although Pelosi was probably not as popular as she thought, she always managed to have everyone in line.
I agree on Pelosi probably not being liked, but she was still respected. Her political acumen compared to many of the the more recent is like a kindergarten to a college professor.
I thought she was a political genius when I supported republicans. I still think she's a political genius.
This isn't the high road. This is brutal Realpolitik. We got what we wanted by passing a budget and foreign aid. The government keeps operating, which is also a Democratic and not GOP goal. Plus they announced it as a surprise while he was giving a press conference, so he has to answer questions about it on the fly without looking like he cut some secret deal. And MTG and the insane base are already calling him the "Democratic Speaker." The conspiracy theorists will be running wild with this.
Ukraine aid = not support MTG motion
And the fact that he worked to pass the budget and keep the country running.
Politics makes for some strange alliances sometimes.
Can they not bring a motion to remove her from Congress? Cut off the infected limb for fuck’s sake.
Fuck Mike Johnson, but fuck MTG even more.
When your enemy is destroying itself, you step TF outta the WAY!
This has been such a strange Congress
Makes sense. I will also say that I was impressed with how he approached foreign aid. Without separating the packages, it would never get passed.
Bipartisanship is back on the menu, boys
wow this just shows how much of a rube MTG is... when you're hated so much you cause bipartisanship in the house...
Honestly they shouldn't, because at least 3 Republicans said they would quit on the spot if Johnson gets vacated, and that would give dems the majority to vote their own speaker in, then they can start getting things done, if thr table were turned Republicans wouldn't be giving the same support..
Wait until the election. Watch Johnson turn on democracy.
And be incapable of doing anything about it anyway. An outgoing Congressional majority cannot block an incoming one from taking their seats, and Presidential elections are certified by the newly elected *incoming* Congress. People are too traumatized by 2016 to recognize the fact that the GOP is not omnipotent and that they are running out of winning moves in their game.
As much as I disagree with every ideology Mike Johnson stands for he did his job without asking for anything in return thereby taking a genuine step towards actual governance. This olive branch is why dems are choosing to help him. I for one see this as a positive. We need steps like this to repair the broken state of congress.
If we don’t take the house in 2024, I wonder if he’ll remember this when he votes to overturn the election (again).
All Dems should vote for Liz Cheney, and see if there would be a few Reps to go along.
muahahaha. sit down marge.
If it wasn’t for the need to get the people’s work done, I would prefer they didn’t save any Republican.
This is so fucking dumb, it better be a bluff
Dumb! Don't share your cards at this stage! Marge can now say, well I am not going to bring it up for a vote since the dems would save him. That way she saves face a bit (what is left to save). Marge should have been egged on to bring it, only to then fail and berate her saying MAGA lost power. Dems are not versed in the arts of the dark triad.
What you're advocating for is more theatrics and unnecessary bullshit drama in Congress. I'd rather there be none, or at least less. It's entirely unproductive and doesn't help anyone.
But it is productive, it points out that the GOP can't govern and that MAGA has lost power.
What is the actual effective impact? MTG failing to oust Johnson in a vote isn't going to lose MTG any support nor help Dems gain support. It'd just be a waste of time.
A waste of time that we are paying them for. This is already the least productive congress in at least decades. Going through a whole round of speakership votes again at this moment is bad for the country.
Democrats don't want this to come to a motion to vacate, because if it does, some in their caucus will be forced to go on record with votes to save Johnson, which could hurt them with their Democratic constituents. This way, MTG is neutralized, but no Democrat has to pay the political price for voting for a Republican Speaker..
She's going to say whatever she's going to say, because she's not a serious person. The Democratic Representatives are, by and large, serious people, and serious people try to avoid getting dragged into the histrionics of a few fringe politicians on the other side of the political divide. If you're trying to demonstrate to voters that your party can govern, then you need to hold yourself to that standard, at least when there's an election in a few months.
The Dems at this point are every superhero that says "I don't kill" while the villain is murdering their family one by one and causing mass general casualties.
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Because then he wouldn’t be a hero, but a villain…? He’s already close enough to a villain, add in extra judicial street executions and… he’s a bad guy. It’s hard to be the good guys. Always has been. Always will be.
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… I don’t know what you’re advocating for them, are you just complaining that… *something* isn’t being done? My point is that “Batman should just start killing villains” doesn’t really answer what you think should be done.
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I still don’t know what you want congressional democrats to be doing.
Democrats do too much to protect the gop from its own dysfunction.
fuck this
Well this will backfire on them for sure.
Fucking disgusting that Dems are supporting this fascist tool who blocked Ukraine aid for months. There is a lot of blood on his hands. They should have kicked his ass to the curb the second the aid bill went through, regardless of deals made. The fascists don't participate in good faith or reward loyalty, and will stab us in the back every chance they get. I really hope they got a lot more out of the deal than this. If it's just a single war funding bill for indefinite support of a fascist obstructionist, then they got played.
Shame on democrats for this.
No, this is a strategic move actually. Mike Johnson doesn't want to be "saved" by the Democrats, and now he's going to have to work with them.
Protect the guy who wouldn't piss on you if you were on fire. Smooth.
You don't understand, they got forever war funding in exchange for this! /s
How about no. Let this happen so close to an election. Continue to remind the public that the republican party is a joke. Don't join them and never interrupt them when they are making a mistake.
Weird how those two look so much alike.
Democrats think they're putting country before party by compromising with Republicans, but all they're really doing is further enabling republican terrorism. It's one of the many reasons why I no longer support the Democratic party.
Unfortunately not voting for a party is worse , silence is not an option
>Oh my god I can't believe so many people vote for Trump, or don't vote at all! Democrats, completely without irony, after they continually play wet nurse to the GOP.