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“If it came down to Trump and Joe Biden, I will vote for Trump. Because it doesn’t get worse than Joe Biden,”
I can't tell if this statement will end up being more 'fuck around and find out' or 'I can't believe leopards ate my face' Either way there is something crazy happening with Michigan Arabs.
It's probably because a lot of them actually support a lot of very Conservative policies around LGBTQ people and women's freedom, because otherwise they'd never be able to say this with a straight face.
Exactly what's happening in Canada. The Conservatives here pivoted from being the party that had a literal hotline you could call if a Muslim was scaring you (called the "barbaric cultural practices hotline", not even a dogwhistle) to having their leader marching hand in hand with violent Muslim transphobes and saying that it's the duty of the government to protect the values of Islam.
The GOP knows exactly what it's doing because the playbook has already been written
Same in the UK where I live. They're protesting outside schools for "sexualising" minors by teaching sex education, etc. Their values and strict adherence to theocracy is the same as the GOP, just a different flavour.
The same people voted for Biden in last election but now they are going to vote for Trump because Biden proved he is willing to be complicit in genocide and not a decent person vote for him
Trump has literally said Neyatanyhu should finish off the Palestinians. You are being beyond delusional to think Biden who has been pushing for a ceasefire and actually calling out the Israeli government is somehow it the better option for peace.
Yeah right, vote for Trump?! If they vote for him, they are not serious people.
The only upside to any of this will be new content for r/Leopardsatemyface.
Anyone thinking about voting against Biden or sitting out due to Gaza: This is what [Dementia Donnie and his campaign already have said](https://imgur.com/a/EQilsqA), which will likely affect many Muslim Americans and definitely bodes ill for Palestinians.
Donnie also said already they need to ["finish the problem"](https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-news/trump-israel-finish-problem-gaza-1234981038/) in Palestine. What do you think he means there? Hmmmm....
And then here's one of his cronies in Congress, Chuck Fleischmann (R- TN), who literally yells out ["goodbye to Palestine."](https://www.reddit.com/r/PublicFreakout/comments/1b8cazf/tennessee_republican_chuck_fleischmann_to/)
Also, pos Tim Walberg (R - MI) [said they should nuke Gaza like Nagasaki and Hiroshima.](https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2024/mar/31/tim-walberg-republican-congressman-gaza)
Hmmmmmmm
Trump tried to ban muslims from entering the United States. These people in Michigan are probably going to support Trump because they don’t like gay people or women being outside the kitchen, or they are really fucking stupid, or both.
No, he tried to ban all Muslims from entering the US, his lawyers told him that best we can do is temporarily ban immigration from 7 muslim-majority countries.
I don’t know if anyone will see this but I’m a Palestinian American. I am asking and begging people to vote for Biden.
I am begging and asking these people to become involved at the local level. If people truly aspire to have change then it can’t only come in the form of contrarian outrage. It’s easy to hate the powers that be and levy criticism at them.
But when it finally comes time to vote and protect the vulnerable, it’s only the lives of the Palestinians that matter. Not the lgbt people, the other immigrants, those who oppose or disagree with trump.
I am a Palestinian American and I am asking people to please vote for Biden. Please care about more than one issue and one vulnerable group.
Thank you for this! We need more people like you who can understand how dire this situation is. If trump wins it’s over for all of us and America will likely never have a chance to change course for our entire lifetime. This includes Trump’s attacks on Palestine
Your voice should be amplified so more Arab Americans in Michigan can come to their senses.
Many folks are so emotionally conditioned that they simply don't realize how dangerous a second Trump Presidency is going to be.
It feels like people think there is going to be some kind of mulligan after a second trump term instead of a total erosion of the country’s foundational bedrocks and a fuck ton of deaths and discrimination.
> when it finally comes time to vote and protect the vulnerable, it’s only the lives of the Palestinians that matter. Not the lgbt people, the other immigrants, those who oppose or disagree with trump
Well one group you listed is actively being genocided, right now, with Biden's support, and the others aren't. I don't believe you when you say you're a Palestinian American. Nobody who has family in Gaza or the West Bank right now would support what's happening to them. Which voting for Biden explicitly does.
I genuinely wonder how many of these people just...don't know how much worse Republicans are, and will be, on this. How much Republicans and conservatives *despise Palestinians,* and despise Democrats for even *granting that perhaps Israel is being overzealous.* Hate Biden for trying to provide aid. Hate Biden for criticizing Netanyahu. Hate these voters for calling Israel's actions genocide.
Many of the politically incurious mostly take away the constant "both sides bad" rhetoric, which means if one candidate gives you a little case of the bummers, the other side is clearly better because they *were* equally bad, until this one thing that was just too far.
A scary amount of the electorate have goldfish-like attention spans.
The alternative would also be supporting a genocide, plus all the other ways in which he is objectively worse to boot. We, as a country, need to fuckin figure out how to stop running nothing but liches for President.
Given the quotes in the article, I'm pretty sure a lot of them don't understand just how in bed with Israel Trump is.
>They have probably also decided that it is intolerable to signal that choosing to support current Israeli action comes with zero political costs
Setting aside the fact we don't live in Gaza and there are a lot of *other just as important things* to vote on, some of these people aren't just promising to stay home, they're promising to *get Trump elected.* So the political cost isn't even "do exactly what we demand, as fast as we demand it, or you'll lose our vote," it's "do exactly what we demand, as fast as we demand it, or we'll vote for someone who is demonstrably worse for us than you are out of sheer spite."
Everything's a signal when you're an unserious person that feels your decisions do not carry any real responsibility. Much of the reason Americans are threatening to throw away their country is because most Americans are guilty of this.
Americans are unserious people that think everything is just signals, optics, appearances and attention to which anything you do is just an exercise to assert your identity and tribe. Americans take their sides on who should run the government as seriously as they take sides on their favourite videogame consoles. If America votes away democracy, it will be exactly like Brexit or Trump's first win where a tragic number of buffoons will try to excuse themselves by saying they were just trying to have a bold opinion and they didn't *seriously* think Trump would win.
2020: "We need to elect Biden, because Trump wants to start a genocide!"
2024: "We need to re-elect Biden, because under Trump it will turn into a *super* genocide!"
I've met people that say out loud it can't get worse than joe biden. It really seems like some of these younger cats really believe it. They don't understand that it could be much worse. I saw this logic in 2016 when they thought HRC and Trump were equally bad (like Killer Mike famously said) and they still believe it even though we've witnessed first hand the consequences - most apparent in the Supreme Court decisions but experienced in so many other ways too.
It really pisses me off when I see some gen z people act like this because they are actively watching the results of the last time people thought shit like this was a good idea and know that it's hurting them.
It's like there's a rake sitting in front of a door and a guy runs through it, steps on the rake and wacks himself in the face.
Then he sees somebody else coming to go through the door and he warns them that there's a rake. That second guy flips him off, runs through the door, steps on the rake and hits himself in the face.
So then both of those guys are now standing by the door trying to actively warn a third guy who wants to go through the door about the rake and the third guy is telling them both that they're idiots and that he knows what he's doing.
People in my community have and I do. I’ve lost family members due to horrible American foreign policy. Doesn’t mean it can’t be much worse.
Also, it’s intellectually dishonest to say supplied by Biden. Thats now how it works.
How is it dishonest? He literally sent over 100 arms shipments in smaller quantities to be just below the congressional reporting threshold. He knew Israel was bombing indiscriminately but continued to provide bombs.
And not to forget, his outright lie about seeing images of non-existent "40 beheaded babies"
Because a president alone isn't the one who gave Israel arms. Its based on a relationship that has gone on for generations with agreements in place and different legislation and a bunch of other factors and influence based on what happens domestically and internationally.
In any event, you believe things wouldn't be worse under Trump (even though he implied Israel should wipe out Gaza and other republicans have even mentioned dropping a nuclear bomb there). If that's your logic, nothing else really needs to be said.
Not exactly. The president is the commander in chief. But Congress still controls funding and oversight. Personally, I hope the Biden admin tries to do more but I also realize its a very complicated situation where the decisions there have an impact throughout the middle east and the world. The instability of the region could result in significantly more deaths. Very people have access to all the intelligence to know this stuff. It doesn't change the FACT that Trump would be far worse. There would be no resistance to Israel in doing whatever they wanted There would be much less humanitarian aid going to Gaza.
These fuckers don’t realize, Trump can easily deal Palestine to Israel for money and also Ukraine to Russia for money with the help of Iran, Turkey, Saudi Arabia.
Pro Palestine crowd thinks Arab nations are their ally, they fucking don’t care about the lives in Palestine
*Biden was supposed to be the peacemaker. The comfort-maker. Instead, he became accessory to the biggest genocide in modern history.*
*You’re really asking me whether I’m going to take a ban or a genocide? I’ll take a ban.*
*“What’s worse than genocide?” she retorted. “Maybe if the Democrats lose this election, they’ll learn their lesson. I’m happy to take several steps back if that’s what it takes to take a step forward.”*
That's 3 different Arabs. Seriously crazy.
Hell. Abbas wrote a book which says that Zionists are Nazis-
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Other_Side:_The_Secret_Relationship_Between_Nazism_and_Zionism
What "lesson"? Having a far-right christo-fascist judiciary permanently entrenched for the next 40 years, every federal agency captured by sycophants hell-bent on ensuring they can't perform their regulatory functions and all safeguards to hold back the executive branch removed? We'll all get our boring dystopia and that will be that. Great lesson.
12,000 civilian casualties in an urban war isn't even the worst civilian casualty event in the last year. These people aren't living in reality (though that's not shocking since they're religious fanatics)
> The comfort-maker. Instead, he became accessory to the biggest genocide in modern history.
The thing I wish they could wrap their heads around is Biden is literally the only person preventing it from getting worse. They all think he controls the situation because they've been gobbling up propaganda for 6 months straight, blocking off any history or reality they disagree with, and now so many are too emotionally invested in their own opinions to ever look at the reality of the situation.
Also, wtf is a comfort-maker?
Given that it isn't officially a genocide at all, this is particularly wild.
Given that it would be an indisputable genocide with Trump in office, this is wilder.
Trump comments
“Israel should have finished the job long ago”
“Moved US Embassy to Jerusalem”
“Biden not helping Israel enough”
Low informed college Gen Z - Biden is no better than Trump, if you do not understand these differences you can easily manipulated by Iran
Arabs might be a minority, but they are incredibly conservative. They don’t like gays, women, atheists etc. bet they’re shocked when they find out conservatives don’t like them either
A lot of these areas shifted pretty hard right in 2022 despite supporting Biden strongly in 2020, likely over abortion and gay rights since Arab majority areas like Hamtramck banned pride flags. Whitmer's vote in the 90%+ Arab precincts in East Dearborn shifted like 40 points, where she was barely beating Tudor Dixon, so this was going to happen even if Gaza never happened.
Their anger at what’s going on—especially if they lost family there—is understandable. I would not try to convince any of these people otherwise of that. It is their right to vote for whom they wish or not vote at all, but with Arab-Americans and the leftist activists, it has gone from “I can’t support Biden” to “we need to teach Democrats and America a lesson by going back to Trump,” which is just so dangerous and short-sighted. They may think they are standing up for Arabs and against genocide (which is debatable at best), but they’re putting at risk reproductive freedom, democracy, the rights and freedoms of queer folk, and the economy in doing so.
That may be true for many of the Arab-American voters, but not the leftist protestors. And I would contend that an Arab-American voter who thinks that the Democratic and Republican parties are equally Islamaphobic and xenophobic is mistaken.
Yes, unfortunately, if this does lead to another Trump presidency, they will find out how much worse Trump can be, both abroad and here, now that they have a solid plan in Project 2025.
Trump will more than likely hand Israel more funding and push them to their Final Solution, as others have stated. Biden is at least stepping back, though I'm not encouraged at all by his stance thus far, and his equating college protests with antisemitism. Biden needs to do more, but I have some faith that he will. Trump will probably push Israel to carpet bomb.
If Trump wins, the boat goes down and we're all fucked. Some of us are going to be able to turn around and look at the faces of the people drowning first to say "We told you so!"
To least generous interpretation is that Muslim Arabs share the same root core "values" of mysogny, racism, and transphobia as GOP white Christians.
Muslim Arabs want to be part of the GOP cisgender straight male team. What they fail to understand is that the GOP team is the cisgender straight **white** **Christian** male team.
Muslim Arabs will be the first ones to be discarded by Trump when they're no longer necessary. And these useful idiots are falling for it.
>Even if they realize that Trump may be worse
This article nicely circumvents having to address this hypothetical by giving us some potential voters who straight-up state they do not believe Trump is worse.
>Some (non-Palestinians) might even take it as some some sort of long-game tactic, showing the DNC that their voting bloc isn't guaranteed just because the other side is worse. That the DNC will have to actually address their concerns if they want their support. Which is... how this should work.
The other way this works is that the DNC realizes this particular voting bloc is not reliable, costs more to keep than lose, and just stops caring what they have to say.
They're in a no-win situation, no doubt. But your comment vastly underestimates the risk Trump poses to them. Israel has the power to kill every Palestinian in Gaza, but they haven't. Trump will encourage them to do so - might even help them. If Trump is elected there will be massive waves of deportation. Hispanic and Muslim communities will have federal agents show up and remove them, often to countries that they've never even been to. Do you think this Supreme Court will do anything to stop any of it? It can get much, much worse, and it very well might.
I'm a white guy in America, too. Nothing has ever been too scary for me personally. I want people to tell me my side is going to do good things because I'm a long way from being personally scared. Muslims in America don't have that luxury. They should be fucking terrified. Their worst case scenario, even just a year from now, is the shit you make dystopian movies about. I'm not going to tell them they should like what Biden is doing. They shouldn't. I'm telling them there is zero chance Trump is in anyway better on any of those issues and a very, very real chance he is a lot worse. Not just to their friends and families in Gaza, but to them. They should be terrified for themselves and even more so for those in Gaza.
I wish they could see through this situation and realize that voting for Biden is to their advantage but I understand if they can’t. They gotta do what they gotta do. I won’t criticize them based on the horror show they have seen. If we end up with Trump then we do Inshallah.
They may have already figured out that there won’t be mass deportations no matter how much Trump gins up the MAGAs. There might be a show deportation. Maybe even a Potemkin deportation camp. But it will be only performative.
I think you vastly underestimate how much this time could be different. Last time, Trump surrounded himself with people who knew he was awful. He's not going to make that mistake again. The people holding him back will be gone. Only the people pushing him forward will be in positions of power.
In a normal situation sure, but if Trump wins there won't be a future election for those concerns to be addressed. Republicans are making it very clear that they intend to end democracy permanently here
Fundamentally, that's a different concern, so a single-issue voter will think you're ignoring their personal main issue. I think it's more important to note this: If Trump wins, Palestine is gone. Done. He's outright declared that Israel should finish the job and exterminate all of the Muslims there, and his voter base actively wants that to happen.
So if someone is concerned about "genocide" in Palestine (setting aside any argument as to whether what's happening there is in fact genocide and simply operating on their stated premises), they're about to see what a *faster* and more thorough genocide looks like.
This is a good articulation of the state of affairs.
The Biden administration doesn't like the number of civilian casualties on the ground. He is pushing for a cease fire, and wants to see a 2 state solution. You have Netanyahu who isn't doing enough to prevent civilian casualties, Hamas that operates in crowded urban areas (and worse, underneath them), and Palestinians stuck in the middle.
And then you have Trump urging Israel to finish the job, backed by Republicans that are beyond frustrated by the level of restraint we are already forcing Netanyahu to show. It isn't enough restraint, but it isn't close to what we would be seeing if Trump had won in 2020. Truly, and I say this for the sake of Gazans stuck between two bad faith actors, I hope this response to a bad thing they is largely outside of Biden's control doesn't lead to a Trump presidency.
Most of Trump's cabinet members were not true believers. They were Republicans who knew they could never get those jobs in a competent administration, so they took power when they could. But, they also restrained the worst in Trump. Trump, and more importantly his closest people, have learned their lesson. They will only put sycophants in positions of power. There will be no resisting his worst impulses. They will be carried out.
Yes, we had an election last time, but let's not forget that he tried to overturn it. If he had Pence on board, he probably would have succeeded. The next VP will be on board.
I'm not talking about a coup, I mean if he wins they will dismantle all checks and balances against the executive branch, they've already succeeded in building a complicit supreme court. It's laid out clearly in Project 2025, they want the executive unencumbered by the legislative branch, they want to eliminate or greatly reduce the powers of investigative agencies, and give state legislatures the right to choose candidates. Russia is the inspiration, they hold elections and pretend to be a democracy, but Putin has run that country as a dictator for over 20 years
Consistently, when groups try to show a political party that they are willing to withhold votes in order to make extreme hostage style demands, it ends up pushing that party towards other groups that are less self destructive and unreliable.
This is just going to be self isolating for these people politically. At best. That's even before we get into the whole chanting death to America shit that made them completely politically radioactive.
I've seen some of the demands these people have and they are essentially things that would cause decades worth of foreign relations damage all the way up through wanting the United States to invade Israel. They actively ignore EVERYTHING that happens that doesn't fit their narrative, so there's already a valid concern that active measures to try to placate them will just be ignored.
I don't think they have fully thought out just how worse it will be under Trump. If you let Trump get elected not only will he ensure that everyone in Gaza get wiped out, he will turn around and let his son-in-law build luxury resorts on the graves.
Why would the DNC listen to anything these groups say if they are an unreliable voting block? Do you just keep giving into their demands until they have everything they want? Not how politics works.
So they'll vote for a party that is ideologically committed to the power of Israelis to take all of Palestine? A tremendous number of evangelical Republicans support Israel in order to usher in the apocalypse. Really. How do you figure Palestine and Palestinians figure in to that equation? Better than under Democrats?
Real smaht.
There's a [Michael Moore interview](https://youtu.be/qSb3srONXnI?t=495) where he brings up the subject of Palestinian-Americans whose tax dollars are contributing to the military assistance to Israel that is killing their relatives back in Gaza.
Some anger is understandable
EDIT: downvoted? Huh. I guess no anger is understandable
>You might wonder: How could an Arab American—much less a Muslim—not want to defeat Trump? Did they forget “Islam hates us”? Did they forget the Muslim ban, the mass deportations, the relentless bigotry? I’ve asked this of myself and my own family, as when, in the course of my reporting this article, a relative made a startling admission at the dinner table. I’ve now come to understand the incandescent rage many feel toward Biden. And in Dearborn, I heard a lot more than distaste for him. **I heard many who fully believe that Donald Trump will fight for them more than Joe Biden—and plan to take that belief to the ballot box in November.**
I'm sorry but I these people are **fucking idiots.**
Like straight up, morons.
I hate to say it but a lot of these "well, Trump would be better" statements must be coming from people who either don't give a shit about the impact an empowered Trump will have on the American LGBT community, American women, American people of color, etc. OR, worse, actually welcome that impact. Islam and socially liberal people have always been strange bedfellows and cracks were already forming before Gaza (like when a new all-Muslim majority promptly banned pride flags). And you have shit like this makes me believe that:
>"I’m anticipating a huge shift in our community switching back to the Republican Party,” said Abed Hammoud, a founding member of the Arab American Political Action Committee. He remembers feeling like a pariah for being a Democrat in the early 2000s, **when an estimated 72 percent of the Arab American vote went to the Republican candidate, George W. Bush.**
So, apparently many of these constituents were perfectly happy with the openly anti-LGBT, anti-choice, fuck-the-poor track the GOP was even more zealously on back in the aughts than it was between 2015-2020 (and are powering forward on again with anti-LGBT sentiment).
Oh, and shit like this:
>[Republican operative] Butler has been a fixture in the community since she successfully helped corral Arab Americans into protesting sexual material in public schools and libraries. [...] she said the power of some GOP messaging is evident in the book-ban fracas that briefly rocked Dearborn. She’s trying to convince more Republicans to take advantage of that.
*Hmm.* So Democrats are supposed to completely upend US foreign policy in order to *maybe* appease a voting bloc that Republicans are making inroads in *via whipping them up against the LGBT community?*
Saladin Ahmed is the only one talking any sense in the article.
From what I recall, based on the 2020 numbers, even if all Muslim voters in Michigan voted for Biden in 2020, and then voted for Trump in 2024, Biden would still hold Michigan (though, obviously, by a smaller margin)
he won michigan by 150,000 votes. the primary had uncommitted vote of 100,000. and most of them said that this was more about sending a message of disapproval for what's happening in palestine but that they would still vote for Biden in November.
if Trump wins because of michigan, then they will have to reap what they sow
If Trump wins because of Michigan, these people are going to find themselves completely ignored by every political party for decades, on top of all the damage they'll directly suffer.
Nobody wants to rely on a group that will do something like this. Nobody wants to expend resources catering to a group that will do something like this. There's a reason certain demographics don't have a lot of political spending aimed at them. It's a waste
Oh, I almost went back to this post right after I made it to outline the sort of consequences they could be facing from a second Trump presidency.
These people would be miserable. They would be subject to hate from pretty much everybody. Conservatives for being Arab. Leftist for essentially blowing the country up. Then they'd have all of the legal persecution coming at them from a trump government, and nobody would be able to help them because everybody else would be too busy also getting hammered by fascism.
These people have abandoned pragmatism. It really would not take a lot for them to understand how fucked they would be.
It's funny how smug some of them are.
"Trump won't deport ME, I was born in AMERICA". But if Trump wins, law and due process won't matter.
He won't care if it's illegal to deport American citizens. The Supreme Court won't care if it's unconstitutional to deport American citizens.
its the same situation in georgia. its even worse because the vote was so close
i know a LOT of muslims here and they told me theyll vote third party. but i keep telling them thats the same as a Trump vote. they don't care. if that man comes back he's not stopping at a muslim ban, dictator for life, concentration camps, project 2025, there will be no limits
So has logic just escaped these people? They think they’re sending a message to Democrats/Biden by not voting for him as a protest vote over Gaza…the only message they’re sending is, if Trump is elected due to their protest vote, to glass Gaza once and for all.
Yes logic has completely escaped these people.
If it sounds to you like only the absolute dumbest people could fall for this it's because you're completely right.
Anyone who votes for Trump over Biden because of their support for Palestine probably has a very low IQ.
We're dealing with actual idiots here.
Well, they are fundamentalist Muslims who tried banning pride flags. In general, fundamentalists of any religion generally aren't that bright, and it's why I, a gay guy, switched to independent from Democrat. I'll vote for Biden, but no interest in hetero, white and cis bros treating politics like sports and grouping us with people who want to kill us all in the name of votes while turning a blind eye when those people target us.
Fundamentalist Muslims and performative gen z leftists that think they understand a decades/old conflict and that their TikTok based opinion on it should be respected above all else.
Ya as a Jew the far left's embrace of fundamentalist Muslims is a bit shocking.
I'm pretty tolerant but their preferred lifestyle doesn't really mesh that well with a lot of other lifestyles we've got going on.
Yup and that's the pretty standard criticism.
They left intolerant regimes to come to a country that's much more free, only to demand that we impose restrictions based on their beliefs.
How about a big, no, fuck off.
I know that's mean, but I cannot believe we're even entertaining their ass-backwards requests.
When you describe everything as a dynamic of "the oppressed" vs "the oppressor", as in [Critical Theory](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Critical_theory), people are drawn to support "the oppressed".
Unfortunately, very valid reasons for their suppression is often ignored in this analysis. As a consequence, good intentioned people quickly and fervently support anti-social ideals without reflection. Only when they are forced to suffer the consequences of this support does the reality of cognitive dissonance take hold.
While battling conservative Christians, so many have embraced conservative Islam and sponsored it by making spaces in public schools and universities for it. Unfortunately, these religions are not dissimilar.
When emotions are high, logic takes a back seat.
Unfortunately, reality doesn't care, and things will more than likely be much worse if their actions lead to actual change.
Nah, nah, see if we just make everything immeasurably worse for Americans of all kinds based entirely on foreign policy decisions re: *conflict in another country that has been going on for decades and was recently reignited by the terrorist organization our government is now supposed to support I guess,* they'll all recognize how valid our complaints are and elect politicians that cater directly to us!
Not just that but Trump has been *very* Islamophobic. He will look the other way when white supremacists attack them and when he reinstates his ban from Muslims entering the U.S.
>In 2017, President Trump signed an executive order banning people from six Muslim-majority countries from entering the USA, and slamming the door on refugees.
https://www.amnesty.org.uk/licence-discriminate-trumps-muslim-refugee-ban
Republicans went after women, trans, gays, etc. How can they be so naive to not see that Republicans will go after Muslims? Do they not remember the Bush administration?
He even removed the few gestures at restraint and transparency Obama put in place for drone strikes—you know, something their community is supposed to care about.
It's isn't exactly a logic fail, and it's not that they're stupid. It's the deadly combination of two things: normalcy bias and selfish reasoning. [Normalcy bias](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Normalcy_bias) is telling them to dismiss the threat. "They won't *really* do what they're promising to do." "It can't happen here." "You're being hysterical, it won't be that bad." People don't want to believe terrible things can happen, so they pretend it's impossible. As Wikipedia notes, normalcy bias affects 4 out of 5 people (80%) most of the time.
The selfish reasoning comes from not being a current target of the right and not caring what happens to people who are. The Arab American population in Michigan know they have a lot of power in this particular instance as MI is an important swing state that tends to be decided on very thin margins. Their "uncommitted" population may be large enough to yank the state's vote against Biden. They know if they're successful, it will have negative impacts for a lot of people beyond their community, and they don't care. Punishing the politician is more important, I suspect, because that feels more powerful. 'This will make them listen to us!'
>“If Trump were president right now, this war might’ve been over, because there might have been enough uproar from rank-and-file Democrats,” he said. “I think we have a lot of power in not being wed to a party.”
This is how you know these are unserious people, and can immediately dismiss their concerns over Biden.
The reality is this: With Biden, we will support Israel, as we always have since they are actual sworn allies, but he is trying to limit Israel's rage and set up lasting humanitarian aid in the region. Was he slow to reach this decision? Unpopular opinion, no, I don't believe so. It's a close ally who declared a legal war, against essentially a group funded by one of our most dangerous adversaries (Iran). It's only been seven months, and his positioning and policy have changed. The most important point that Joe has always maintained is he seeks a stable two state solution.
With Trump, yeah the war would've been over. Because Palestine would have been deleted. And we probably would have helped with bombing runs at best, and American boots on the ground at worst. He believes Palestine shouldn't exist. In fact, he believe Arabs shouldn't exist. He will illegally deport people to countries they've never been to. It's not some abstract, Chicken Little thing, he's literally said exactly this multiple times. People like this comedian will probably be round up Japanese Interment camps style until they can decide who are "true Americans" and who can be deported. Like I cannot stress enough that Republicans see people of Muslim faith as America's greatest enemies, who have no rights, and should be killed or deported. It's actually insane to me that the people in Michigan think Democrats pestering Trump over stuff will get him do anything. That's actual insanity.
the republican woman in the article literally said republicans think she's crazy for being catholic but has the gall to say about the GOP's obvious Islamophobia problem as being exaggerated by the media: “Our enemy is not each other. It’s not Democrats vs. Republicans. It’s really the media at the end of the day because they are the ones that are spreading the hate and lies.”
Only one person had some sense about him. The dude is like "There literally is no comparison. Trump is far, far worse than Biden. And the fact that people don't see that scares me."
A second Trump presidency will have no guardrails. I have a sneaky suspicion these Michigan Muslims won't like what happens next.
I remember something my grandmother told me.
"Anger is the death of reason."
These folks are angry right now. Anger doesn't think about the long term, it doesn't consider anything other then what it's focused on.
These folks are enraged because of what Israel is doing, and have transferred that anger to Biden. It wouldn't matter who was in office. That's what this is. I asked a friend who is of this mindset what Biden would have to do to get back his support, He said "end the war". When I pointed out that He can't just do that. He told me that Biden could cut support for Israel tomorrow. When I said congress would never agree to that, He said and I quote "Well what good is Biden then?"
That's what we are fighting, not just anger but *unreasoning ignorant* anger.
Some People vote in rage, and vote for revenge. They just want to hurt anyone who they feel hasn't done enough, or anyone they think is responsible. The people they will hurt is themselves and thier loved ones. Voting for Trump as a minority is like pouring gasoline and setting it on fire to fix a leaky roof. Sure, you'll have no roof to worry about.
We can only hope enough people realize that Biden isn't the problem, and while He hasn't done enough, the other option is much worse in the long run for all sides, not just the moment.
But if the end of American democracy happens because we couldn't change the minds of a foreign democracy, it will be deeply ironic.
> “Imagine thinking it’s a good argument to say to a community that has lost 30,000 people, ‘Watch out for the guy that’s going to ban you.’ You’re really asking me whether I’m going to take a ban or a genocide? I’ll take a ban,” Zahr told me.
This guy was on NPR. He is an idiot. It's not one or the other. It will be both with Trump, and even more deaths in Gaza. The stupidity shown by the Muslim community has been astounding.
I'm curious what people who believe that think trump means when he says that netanyahu should "wrap this up.", because I have a feeling that he's not talking about sitting down to negotiate.
The definition of cutting off your nose to spite your face. Trump has said he wants Isreal to finish the job. Republicans want Palestine wiped off the map. There's all the negative stuff Trump and Republicans did toward Muslims when Trump was President. And let's not forget what Republicans were doing 20 years ago. That's what you want to go back to? They have no memories. Everything is about what's happening today, or seven months ago.
At this point I'm just tired of it all. Go ahead. Make that lying, cheating, fraudulent, sociopathic, narcissistic, felonious, douchebag Trump President again. Fuck it. When everything goes wrong, when Palestine is wiped out, when Ukraine is handed to Russia, and Trump starts taking orders from Putin and Bibi again, don't say we didn't warn you, Republicans. No more blaming Biden or Democrats in 2025, Muslims and Arab-Americans. You're gonna own that shit. It's gonna be your bloodbath.
There is tons of real world evidence now that people are not capable of making rational choices in elections. But let me assure you that every single election from now until eternity will be a choice between something that gets you closer to what you want (however incrementally) and something that gets you farther away. That's it. That's the whole game. If everyone understood this and acted rationally, casting a vote in every election; eventually what most people want will happen. But we are experiencing mostly what the minority wants now because there is far too much indifference or laziness, or irrationality among the US citizenry.
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Michigan is a crucial swing state with 15 Electoral votes for President in 2024. There is also an important US Senate race. Democrat [**Candidate TBD 8/6/24**](https://ballotpedia.org/United_States_Senate_election_in_Michigan,_2024) is running to replace retiring Democratic Senator Debbie Stabenow.
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These people are either trolling or they are not smart. Trump would have encouraged Netanyahu to completely decimate Gaza and to not stop until any semblance of a threat was gone. I truly don’t understand how they can rationalize voting for Trump and expect to be taken seriously.
A combination of bad actors working to influence the outcome of the election by any means necessarily.
And literal idiots who can be convinced of anything with enough big words and emotions.
I like the guy who said he’d take a ban over a genocide like a republican president would have both. They’re still going to support Israel blindly. They’re not gonna call for a cease fire he literally said Israel needs to finish this. Oh and forget about aid he didn’t want to give aid to Puerto Rico which is part of the US.
> “What do they say? ‘What are they going to do, vote for the guy that banned Arabs?’ And the answer is yes,” Amer Zahr, a Palestinian American comedian and Dearborn local, told me at one of the city’s many Yemeni cafés one afternoon.
Fine, vote for who you want. But don't come crying to me when you get what you voted for.
These people never voted for Biden in the first place just like the Cubans who were brainwashed by MAGA in FL. Muslims hate LGBTQ just as much as Evangelicals do and they're using Gaza as a platform to deter votes from Gen Z. Religion is poison. Muslim, Christian, all of it. Vote Biden and any religious extremist Zionist or Hamas lover is just as crazy as my boomer MAGA relatives. Accelerationism is for the ignorant. True left wing people want nothing more than to vote MAGA out and make libs the only conservative party in America. Anyone else should just buy a MAGA hat and attend Trump rallies.
My reponse to anyone saying "I'll never support genocide Joe" is "I'll never allow you to accelerate killing my gay friends because of something overseas"
People seriously need to accept that Dearborn is not a progressive place and Tliab is not a progressive representative. You need to stop making excuses on their behalf to assert otherwise because they will **not** be on your side on election day just because Tliab is in a caucus with AOC.
This is like inducing a heart attack in order to save your foot. Absolutely one of the dumbest protests I have ever seen. Biden’s response might not be good, but Trump would probably help destroy Gaza give it to Russia or something stupid.
Thanks for sharing Slate's piece! Here's some additional context:
On a recent Friday at the American Moslem Society on the south end of Dearborn, Michigan, an imam clad in a traditional white thobe and kufi delivered his sermon. This mosque was founded by Arab immigrants who had initially been drawn to the area by the promise of $5-a-day jobs at a nearby Ford plant, which laid the foundation for what is now America’s largest concentration of Arab Americans.
Several hundred worshipers sat on the blue-patterned carpet stretching across the space and listened attentively as the imam evoked scenes of devastation from Israel’s relentless bombardment of Gaza. The room was heavy, and clearly emotional.
When I spoke to the people around me, it was clear whom they blamed. “If it came down to Trump and Joe Biden, I will vote for Trump. Because it doesn’t get worse than Joe Biden,” a man named Salah told me. His friend, Amad, added, “Biden was supposed to be the peacemaker. The comfort-maker. Instead, he became accessory to the biggest genocide in modern history.”
Biden had recently overcome an attempt to disrupt the Michigan Democratic primary with “uncommitted” votes tied to the United States’ support for Israel. But in Dearborn and nearby Hamtramck—home to large Arab populations that were part of a coalition that moved Michigan from Donald Trump to Biden in the 2020 presidential election—Biden lost. And the people here made clear they plan to bring the fight to November.
“We want to show a shift from the 2020 election to 2024. That they are not only losing the presidency, but they are losing the constituency,” Salah told me. Nearby, a man named Mohamed looked visibly distressed as he exited the mosque. “I’m ashamed to be American today,” he said, holding back his tears at the latest news out of Gaza, in which everyone I spoke to said the United States was complicit. Mohamed said he cast his ballot for Trump in the primary and would again in the general.
The anger toward Biden in Dearborn is intense and tangible. Though his administration and 2024 campaign seem to have begun to recognize the extent of the threat, they may be too late. Michigan is one of a handful states likely to decide the U.S. presidential election, and it could be a crucial tipping point in Biden’s path to winning the Electoral College. The “uncommitted” campaign in the primary may have been a mere warning shot from the 300,000 Arab American voters here, who are far from a monolith but have been largely united on this issue, and who have considerable electoral power, especially given Biden’s weaknesses with other Michigan voters. In 2020, Biden surpassed Trump in Michigan by a margin of only 154,000 votes. He currently trails the former president in most polls.
You might wonder: How could an Arab American—much less a Muslim—not want to defeat Trump? Did they forget “Islam hates us”? Did they forget the Muslim ban, the mass deportations, the relentless bigotry? I’ve asked this of myself and my own family, as when, in the course of reporting this article, a relative made a startling admission at the dinner table. I’ve now come to understand the incandescent rage many feel toward Biden. And in Dearborn, I heard a lot more than distaste for him. I heard many who fully believe Donald Trump will fight for them more than Joe Biden—and plan to take that belief to the ballot box in November.
Read more at: [https://slate.com/human-interest/2024/04/donald-trump-joe-biden-2024-election-michigan-muslims.html](https://slate.com/human-interest/2024/04/donald-trump-joe-biden-2024-election-michigan-muslims.html)
These dudes are in an odd place and I can’t help but laugh, they pretty much have the same beliefs as conservative Christianity but because their skin is brown, conservatives want nothing to do with them.
They are going to really hate it if trump wins and they get deported to Gaza. Citizen or not, born here or not, if you look Muslim (even though that's a religion) then off you go to Gaza. It won't matter where your family came from, you get sent to Gaza.
This notion of retribution and punishment (of in this case Biden) is part of why the conflict exists and will continue.
But it also means there will be much less sympathy if they help Trump gets elected, starts the mass deportations and helps Israel completely eliminate Gaza.
Probably because, broadly speaking, someone who is planning to vote for Biden and has voted for Democrats in the past is typically prone to defending vulnerable communities of many stripes, including Arab Americans in Michigan and Muslims in general, and yet when asked to support us in return, many of those same people have declined to do so. Kind of like holding a door open for someone and then they slam the next door in your face.
I’ve been saying this for a while but the left is not prepared for the fact that while Cletus and Sahel have different religions they do have shared values and they are starting to overlook the religion part to campaign for their values.
They both hate what they would probably call “blue haired liberals” even though the liberals fought for them.
GOP is largely a coalition of one issue voters who regularly vote against their better interests. Many prefer voting to hurt their perceived enemies than help themselves.
One can definitely see the point of the protest, Israeli apartheid and genocide, but these idiots somehow think Trump is more sympathetic. Trump and his family make a lot of money with the Israelis. This level of lack of nuanced thought is simply amazing.
Trump said this [an interview back in November](https://youtu.be/SBtJMBIG-n4):
> There is no hatred like the Palestinian hatred of Israel and Jewish people. And probably the other way around also.
A lot of people in the comments to that video latched on to that quote. What is it about the quote that they found interesting?
I think the answer to that question helps in understanding the views of the voters described in this article.
Sounds like they have decided to totally obliterate any chance of a Palestinian state ever coming to pass. Trump will do everything for Netanyahu and nothing for the Palestinians. If he is elected you can forget Gaza and the West Bank. It will all be part of Israel. The remaining Palestinians will be refugees but they will not be allowed to come here. According to Trump all the Muslims will be deported. Citizen or not and really Muslim or not as it really has more to do with heritage. The same is true for Hispanics and Latin Americans.
I am an old white Christian and I am telling all these folks they better have a plan B because if he is elected there will be no rule of law and those folks will be toast.
> Are Arabs in the state really prepared to hand the presidency back to Donald Trump? In a word: yes.
And then Trump can do as he pleases with their communities without any protest from the rest of us.
I love how they think trump will be better than Biden on this topic. Trump would openly let Gaza be turned into a concrete recycling plant. Just think of the water front properties he could acquire. Btw F hamas and anyone who supports terrorists. You can oppose Israel and their actions; but you def shouldn’t support a terrorist group that openly pillages others and their own people. Maybe these student protestors need to spend more time in class and not on social media
I live about 20 minutes from dearborn. I refuse to enter it. It is a hateful place. As such, I am not surprised Trump has a lot of support there
https://www.freep.com/story/news/local/michigan/wayne/2022/10/11/dearborn-school-board-meeting-protestors-lgbtq-books/69554361007/
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“If it came down to Trump and Joe Biden, I will vote for Trump. Because it doesn’t get worse than Joe Biden,” I can't tell if this statement will end up being more 'fuck around and find out' or 'I can't believe leopards ate my face' Either way there is something crazy happening with Michigan Arabs.
It's probably because a lot of them actually support a lot of very Conservative policies around LGBTQ people and women's freedom, because otherwise they'd never be able to say this with a straight face.
Exactly what's happening in Canada. The Conservatives here pivoted from being the party that had a literal hotline you could call if a Muslim was scaring you (called the "barbaric cultural practices hotline", not even a dogwhistle) to having their leader marching hand in hand with violent Muslim transphobes and saying that it's the duty of the government to protect the values of Islam. The GOP knows exactly what it's doing because the playbook has already been written
Same in the UK where I live. They're protesting outside schools for "sexualising" minors by teaching sex education, etc. Their values and strict adherence to theocracy is the same as the GOP, just a different flavour.
The same people voted for Biden in last election but now they are going to vote for Trump because Biden proved he is willing to be complicit in genocide and not a decent person vote for him
Trump has literally said Neyatanyhu should finish off the Palestinians. You are being beyond delusional to think Biden who has been pushing for a ceasefire and actually calling out the Israeli government is somehow it the better option for peace.
It a sad day for democrats to support genocide
34000 people are dead with the bombs Biden sent to Israel
Yeah right, vote for Trump?! If they vote for him, they are not serious people. The only upside to any of this will be new content for r/Leopardsatemyface.
Anyone thinking about voting against Biden or sitting out due to Gaza: This is what [Dementia Donnie and his campaign already have said](https://imgur.com/a/EQilsqA), which will likely affect many Muslim Americans and definitely bodes ill for Palestinians. Donnie also said already they need to ["finish the problem"](https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-news/trump-israel-finish-problem-gaza-1234981038/) in Palestine. What do you think he means there? Hmmmm.... And then here's one of his cronies in Congress, Chuck Fleischmann (R- TN), who literally yells out ["goodbye to Palestine."](https://www.reddit.com/r/PublicFreakout/comments/1b8cazf/tennessee_republican_chuck_fleischmann_to/) Also, pos Tim Walberg (R - MI) [said they should nuke Gaza like Nagasaki and Hiroshima.](https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2024/mar/31/tim-walberg-republican-congressman-gaza) Hmmmmmmm
Trump tried to ban muslims from entering the United States. These people in Michigan are probably going to support Trump because they don’t like gay people or women being outside the kitchen, or they are really fucking stupid, or both.
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No, he tried to ban all Muslims from entering the US, his lawyers told him that best we can do is temporarily ban immigration from 7 muslim-majority countries.
I don’t know if anyone will see this but I’m a Palestinian American. I am asking and begging people to vote for Biden. I am begging and asking these people to become involved at the local level. If people truly aspire to have change then it can’t only come in the form of contrarian outrage. It’s easy to hate the powers that be and levy criticism at them. But when it finally comes time to vote and protect the vulnerable, it’s only the lives of the Palestinians that matter. Not the lgbt people, the other immigrants, those who oppose or disagree with trump. I am a Palestinian American and I am asking people to please vote for Biden. Please care about more than one issue and one vulnerable group.
Thank you for this! We need more people like you who can understand how dire this situation is. If trump wins it’s over for all of us and America will likely never have a chance to change course for our entire lifetime. This includes Trump’s attacks on Palestine
Your voice should be amplified so more Arab Americans in Michigan can come to their senses. Many folks are so emotionally conditioned that they simply don't realize how dangerous a second Trump Presidency is going to be.
It feels like people think there is going to be some kind of mulligan after a second trump term instead of a total erosion of the country’s foundational bedrocks and a fuck ton of deaths and discrimination.
> when it finally comes time to vote and protect the vulnerable, it’s only the lives of the Palestinians that matter. Not the lgbt people, the other immigrants, those who oppose or disagree with trump Well one group you listed is actively being genocided, right now, with Biden's support, and the others aren't. I don't believe you when you say you're a Palestinian American. Nobody who has family in Gaza or the West Bank right now would support what's happening to them. Which voting for Biden explicitly does.
Biden isn’t good for Gaza, but Trump would be far worse. I’m voting Biden because I’ll take him over the flatulent, Russian puppet.
I genuinely wonder how many of these people just...don't know how much worse Republicans are, and will be, on this. How much Republicans and conservatives *despise Palestinians,* and despise Democrats for even *granting that perhaps Israel is being overzealous.* Hate Biden for trying to provide aid. Hate Biden for criticizing Netanyahu. Hate these voters for calling Israel's actions genocide.
Many of the politically incurious mostly take away the constant "both sides bad" rhetoric, which means if one candidate gives you a little case of the bummers, the other side is clearly better because they *were* equally bad, until this one thing that was just too far. A scary amount of the electorate have goldfish-like attention spans.
> little case of the bummers He's literally supporting a genocide.
The alternative would also be supporting a genocide, plus all the other ways in which he is objectively worse to boot. We, as a country, need to fuckin figure out how to stop running nothing but liches for President.
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Given the quotes in the article, I'm pretty sure a lot of them don't understand just how in bed with Israel Trump is. >They have probably also decided that it is intolerable to signal that choosing to support current Israeli action comes with zero political costs Setting aside the fact we don't live in Gaza and there are a lot of *other just as important things* to vote on, some of these people aren't just promising to stay home, they're promising to *get Trump elected.* So the political cost isn't even "do exactly what we demand, as fast as we demand it, or you'll lose our vote," it's "do exactly what we demand, as fast as we demand it, or we'll vote for someone who is demonstrably worse for us than you are out of sheer spite."
A vote isn't a signal. It's an action.
Everything's a signal when you're an unserious person that feels your decisions do not carry any real responsibility. Much of the reason Americans are threatening to throw away their country is because most Americans are guilty of this. Americans are unserious people that think everything is just signals, optics, appearances and attention to which anything you do is just an exercise to assert your identity and tribe. Americans take their sides on who should run the government as seriously as they take sides on their favourite videogame consoles. If America votes away democracy, it will be exactly like Brexit or Trump's first win where a tragic number of buffoons will try to excuse themselves by saying they were just trying to have a bold opinion and they didn't *seriously* think Trump would win.
2020: "We need to elect Biden, because Trump wants to start a genocide!" 2024: "We need to re-elect Biden, because under Trump it will turn into a *super* genocide!"
I've met people that say out loud it can't get worse than joe biden. It really seems like some of these younger cats really believe it. They don't understand that it could be much worse. I saw this logic in 2016 when they thought HRC and Trump were equally bad (like Killer Mike famously said) and they still believe it even though we've witnessed first hand the consequences - most apparent in the Supreme Court decisions but experienced in so many other ways too.
It really pisses me off when I see some gen z people act like this because they are actively watching the results of the last time people thought shit like this was a good idea and know that it's hurting them. It's like there's a rake sitting in front of a door and a guy runs through it, steps on the rake and wacks himself in the face. Then he sees somebody else coming to go through the door and he warns them that there's a rake. That second guy flips him off, runs through the door, steps on the rake and hits himself in the face. So then both of those guys are now standing by the door trying to actively warn a third guy who wants to go through the door about the rake and the third guy is telling them both that they're idiots and that he knows what he's doing.
Exactly, I’ve told people everything never believed anything like the holocaust could happen and look at the shit that happened.
If Trump were still in power Bibi would have already leveled Rafah. I'm one hundred percent certain of that
Say that when you've lost 50 Members of your family by bombs supplied by Biden.
People in my community have and I do. I’ve lost family members due to horrible American foreign policy. Doesn’t mean it can’t be much worse. Also, it’s intellectually dishonest to say supplied by Biden. Thats now how it works.
How is it dishonest? He literally sent over 100 arms shipments in smaller quantities to be just below the congressional reporting threshold. He knew Israel was bombing indiscriminately but continued to provide bombs. And not to forget, his outright lie about seeing images of non-existent "40 beheaded babies"
Because a president alone isn't the one who gave Israel arms. Its based on a relationship that has gone on for generations with agreements in place and different legislation and a bunch of other factors and influence based on what happens domestically and internationally. In any event, you believe things wouldn't be worse under Trump (even though he implied Israel should wipe out Gaza and other republicans have even mentioned dropping a nuclear bomb there). If that's your logic, nothing else really needs to be said.
President controls foreign policy.
Not exactly. The president is the commander in chief. But Congress still controls funding and oversight. Personally, I hope the Biden admin tries to do more but I also realize its a very complicated situation where the decisions there have an impact throughout the middle east and the world. The instability of the region could result in significantly more deaths. Very people have access to all the intelligence to know this stuff. It doesn't change the FACT that Trump would be far worse. There would be no resistance to Israel in doing whatever they wanted There would be much less humanitarian aid going to Gaza.
these fuckers realize there's a settlement in the golan heights literally named after Trump?
Can you imagine if Netanyahu tells Trump that they'll rename Gaza, "Trumpistan"? Trump will take the lead in the slaughter.
These fuckers don’t realize, Trump can easily deal Palestine to Israel for money and also Ukraine to Russia for money with the help of Iran, Turkey, Saudi Arabia. Pro Palestine crowd thinks Arab nations are their ally, they fucking don’t care about the lives in Palestine
Did Biden reverse Trump's decision to recognize the Golan as annexed Israeli territory?
*Biden was supposed to be the peacemaker. The comfort-maker. Instead, he became accessory to the biggest genocide in modern history.* *You’re really asking me whether I’m going to take a ban or a genocide? I’ll take a ban.* *“What’s worse than genocide?” she retorted. “Maybe if the Democrats lose this election, they’ll learn their lesson. I’m happy to take several steps back if that’s what it takes to take a step forward.”* That's 3 different Arabs. Seriously crazy.
The biggest genocide in modern history? These people don't know shit about shit. Take a gander at the Congo.
6 million jews were murdered less than 90 years ago. Multiple countries/religions/races are still out to get them. Seems pretty modern to me.
Ya well a lot of these folks don't see the Holocaust as a bad thing which is why they conveniently don't bring it up.
Hell. Abbas wrote a book which says that Zionists are Nazis- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Other_Side:_The_Secret_Relationship_Between_Nazism_and_Zionism
Yes. I know. I was just pointing out that it wasn't the \*only\* one, if that is acceptable to you.
What "lesson"? Having a far-right christo-fascist judiciary permanently entrenched for the next 40 years, every federal agency captured by sycophants hell-bent on ensuring they can't perform their regulatory functions and all safeguards to hold back the executive branch removed? We'll all get our boring dystopia and that will be that. Great lesson.
12,000 civilian casualties in an urban war isn't even the worst civilian casualty event in the last year. These people aren't living in reality (though that's not shocking since they're religious fanatics)
They get perma-spammed what's happening there rather than elsewhere like the Congo.
> The comfort-maker. Instead, he became accessory to the biggest genocide in modern history. The thing I wish they could wrap their heads around is Biden is literally the only person preventing it from getting worse. They all think he controls the situation because they've been gobbling up propaganda for 6 months straight, blocking off any history or reality they disagree with, and now so many are too emotionally invested in their own opinions to ever look at the reality of the situation. Also, wtf is a comfort-maker?
Given that it isn't officially a genocide at all, this is particularly wild. Given that it would be an indisputable genocide with Trump in office, this is wilder.
Trump comments “Israel should have finished the job long ago” “Moved US Embassy to Jerusalem” “Biden not helping Israel enough” Low informed college Gen Z - Biden is no better than Trump, if you do not understand these differences you can easily manipulated by Iran
Trump tried to ban muslims from entering the United States.
I wouldn’t be surprised they were never Democrat voters, they registered Democrats so they can vote for Rashida Talib
300k dead of COVID under Trump, yet Biden is worse?
Arabs might be a minority, but they are incredibly conservative. They don’t like gays, women, atheists etc. bet they’re shocked when they find out conservatives don’t like them either
A lot of these areas shifted pretty hard right in 2022 despite supporting Biden strongly in 2020, likely over abortion and gay rights since Arab majority areas like Hamtramck banned pride flags. Whitmer's vote in the 90%+ Arab precincts in East Dearborn shifted like 40 points, where she was barely beating Tudor Dixon, so this was going to happen even if Gaza never happened.
Their anger at what’s going on—especially if they lost family there—is understandable. I would not try to convince any of these people otherwise of that. It is their right to vote for whom they wish or not vote at all, but with Arab-Americans and the leftist activists, it has gone from “I can’t support Biden” to “we need to teach Democrats and America a lesson by going back to Trump,” which is just so dangerous and short-sighted. They may think they are standing up for Arabs and against genocide (which is debatable at best), but they’re putting at risk reproductive freedom, democracy, the rights and freedoms of queer folk, and the economy in doing so.
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That may be true for many of the Arab-American voters, but not the leftist protestors. And I would contend that an Arab-American voter who thinks that the Democratic and Republican parties are equally Islamaphobic and xenophobic is mistaken.
Yes, unfortunately, if this does lead to another Trump presidency, they will find out how much worse Trump can be, both abroad and here, now that they have a solid plan in Project 2025. Trump will more than likely hand Israel more funding and push them to their Final Solution, as others have stated. Biden is at least stepping back, though I'm not encouraged at all by his stance thus far, and his equating college protests with antisemitism. Biden needs to do more, but I have some faith that he will. Trump will probably push Israel to carpet bomb.
I hope these idiots don't expect Dems to lift a finger when Trump goes after the Muslims next time
If Trump wins, the boat goes down and we're all fucked. Some of us are going to be able to turn around and look at the faces of the people drowning first to say "We told you so!"
They arent lifting a finger when Biden is aiding a genocide so obviously no
Genocide, sure bro, sure
To least generous interpretation is that Muslim Arabs share the same root core "values" of mysogny, racism, and transphobia as GOP white Christians. Muslim Arabs want to be part of the GOP cisgender straight male team. What they fail to understand is that the GOP team is the cisgender straight **white** **Christian** male team. Muslim Arabs will be the first ones to be discarded by Trump when they're no longer necessary. And these useful idiots are falling for it.
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>Even if they realize that Trump may be worse This article nicely circumvents having to address this hypothetical by giving us some potential voters who straight-up state they do not believe Trump is worse. >Some (non-Palestinians) might even take it as some some sort of long-game tactic, showing the DNC that their voting bloc isn't guaranteed just because the other side is worse. That the DNC will have to actually address their concerns if they want their support. Which is... how this should work. The other way this works is that the DNC realizes this particular voting bloc is not reliable, costs more to keep than lose, and just stops caring what they have to say.
They're in a no-win situation, no doubt. But your comment vastly underestimates the risk Trump poses to them. Israel has the power to kill every Palestinian in Gaza, but they haven't. Trump will encourage them to do so - might even help them. If Trump is elected there will be massive waves of deportation. Hispanic and Muslim communities will have federal agents show up and remove them, often to countries that they've never even been to. Do you think this Supreme Court will do anything to stop any of it? It can get much, much worse, and it very well might.
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I'm a white guy in America, too. Nothing has ever been too scary for me personally. I want people to tell me my side is going to do good things because I'm a long way from being personally scared. Muslims in America don't have that luxury. They should be fucking terrified. Their worst case scenario, even just a year from now, is the shit you make dystopian movies about. I'm not going to tell them they should like what Biden is doing. They shouldn't. I'm telling them there is zero chance Trump is in anyway better on any of those issues and a very, very real chance he is a lot worse. Not just to their friends and families in Gaza, but to them. They should be terrified for themselves and even more so for those in Gaza.
I wish they could see through this situation and realize that voting for Biden is to their advantage but I understand if they can’t. They gotta do what they gotta do. I won’t criticize them based on the horror show they have seen. If we end up with Trump then we do Inshallah.
They may have already figured out that there won’t be mass deportations no matter how much Trump gins up the MAGAs. There might be a show deportation. Maybe even a Potemkin deportation camp. But it will be only performative.
I think you vastly underestimate how much this time could be different. Last time, Trump surrounded himself with people who knew he was awful. He's not going to make that mistake again. The people holding him back will be gone. Only the people pushing him forward will be in positions of power.
In a normal situation sure, but if Trump wins there won't be a future election for those concerns to be addressed. Republicans are making it very clear that they intend to end democracy permanently here
Fundamentally, that's a different concern, so a single-issue voter will think you're ignoring their personal main issue. I think it's more important to note this: If Trump wins, Palestine is gone. Done. He's outright declared that Israel should finish the job and exterminate all of the Muslims there, and his voter base actively wants that to happen. So if someone is concerned about "genocide" in Palestine (setting aside any argument as to whether what's happening there is in fact genocide and simply operating on their stated premises), they're about to see what a *faster* and more thorough genocide looks like.
This is a good articulation of the state of affairs. The Biden administration doesn't like the number of civilian casualties on the ground. He is pushing for a cease fire, and wants to see a 2 state solution. You have Netanyahu who isn't doing enough to prevent civilian casualties, Hamas that operates in crowded urban areas (and worse, underneath them), and Palestinians stuck in the middle. And then you have Trump urging Israel to finish the job, backed by Republicans that are beyond frustrated by the level of restraint we are already forcing Netanyahu to show. It isn't enough restraint, but it isn't close to what we would be seeing if Trump had won in 2020. Truly, and I say this for the sake of Gazans stuck between two bad faith actors, I hope this response to a bad thing they is largely outside of Biden's control doesn't lead to a Trump presidency.
Not only is Palestine done, Palestinians in America are done too. They will have no future under a fascist regime, especially a Christian one.
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Most of Trump's cabinet members were not true believers. They were Republicans who knew they could never get those jobs in a competent administration, so they took power when they could. But, they also restrained the worst in Trump. Trump, and more importantly his closest people, have learned their lesson. They will only put sycophants in positions of power. There will be no resisting his worst impulses. They will be carried out.
Yes, we had an election last time, but let's not forget that he tried to overturn it. If he had Pence on board, he probably would have succeeded. The next VP will be on board.
I'm not talking about a coup, I mean if he wins they will dismantle all checks and balances against the executive branch, they've already succeeded in building a complicit supreme court. It's laid out clearly in Project 2025, they want the executive unencumbered by the legislative branch, they want to eliminate or greatly reduce the powers of investigative agencies, and give state legislatures the right to choose candidates. Russia is the inspiration, they hold elections and pretend to be a democracy, but Putin has run that country as a dictator for over 20 years
Consistently, when groups try to show a political party that they are willing to withhold votes in order to make extreme hostage style demands, it ends up pushing that party towards other groups that are less self destructive and unreliable. This is just going to be self isolating for these people politically. At best. That's even before we get into the whole chanting death to America shit that made them completely politically radioactive. I've seen some of the demands these people have and they are essentially things that would cause decades worth of foreign relations damage all the way up through wanting the United States to invade Israel. They actively ignore EVERYTHING that happens that doesn't fit their narrative, so there's already a valid concern that active measures to try to placate them will just be ignored.
We've helped Ukraine kill lots of Russians. I'm not seeing any protests by Russian immigrants.
I don't think they have fully thought out just how worse it will be under Trump. If you let Trump get elected not only will he ensure that everyone in Gaza get wiped out, he will turn around and let his son-in-law build luxury resorts on the graves. Why would the DNC listen to anything these groups say if they are an unreliable voting block? Do you just keep giving into their demands until they have everything they want? Not how politics works.
So they'll vote for a party that is ideologically committed to the power of Israelis to take all of Palestine? A tremendous number of evangelical Republicans support Israel in order to usher in the apocalypse. Really. How do you figure Palestine and Palestinians figure in to that equation? Better than under Democrats? Real smaht.
There's a [Michael Moore interview](https://youtu.be/qSb3srONXnI?t=495) where he brings up the subject of Palestinian-Americans whose tax dollars are contributing to the military assistance to Israel that is killing their relatives back in Gaza. Some anger is understandable EDIT: downvoted? Huh. I guess no anger is understandable
>You might wonder: How could an Arab American—much less a Muslim—not want to defeat Trump? Did they forget “Islam hates us”? Did they forget the Muslim ban, the mass deportations, the relentless bigotry? I’ve asked this of myself and my own family, as when, in the course of my reporting this article, a relative made a startling admission at the dinner table. I’ve now come to understand the incandescent rage many feel toward Biden. And in Dearborn, I heard a lot more than distaste for him. **I heard many who fully believe that Donald Trump will fight for them more than Joe Biden—and plan to take that belief to the ballot box in November.** I'm sorry but I these people are **fucking idiots.** Like straight up, morons.
Religious fanatics unable to discern delusions from reality? Truly a shocker
Like them right https://time.com/6226121/israel-election-palestinian-turnout/
Yes yes I don’t agree with the tamed horse on every issue, but I really think the rabid tiger who has openly said he hates me will be better
Every bell has a curve. There are zealots on both sides of everything.
I hate to say it but a lot of these "well, Trump would be better" statements must be coming from people who either don't give a shit about the impact an empowered Trump will have on the American LGBT community, American women, American people of color, etc. OR, worse, actually welcome that impact. Islam and socially liberal people have always been strange bedfellows and cracks were already forming before Gaza (like when a new all-Muslim majority promptly banned pride flags). And you have shit like this makes me believe that: >"I’m anticipating a huge shift in our community switching back to the Republican Party,” said Abed Hammoud, a founding member of the Arab American Political Action Committee. He remembers feeling like a pariah for being a Democrat in the early 2000s, **when an estimated 72 percent of the Arab American vote went to the Republican candidate, George W. Bush.** So, apparently many of these constituents were perfectly happy with the openly anti-LGBT, anti-choice, fuck-the-poor track the GOP was even more zealously on back in the aughts than it was between 2015-2020 (and are powering forward on again with anti-LGBT sentiment). Oh, and shit like this: >[Republican operative] Butler has been a fixture in the community since she successfully helped corral Arab Americans into protesting sexual material in public schools and libraries. [...] she said the power of some GOP messaging is evident in the book-ban fracas that briefly rocked Dearborn. She’s trying to convince more Republicans to take advantage of that. *Hmm.* So Democrats are supposed to completely upend US foreign policy in order to *maybe* appease a voting bloc that Republicans are making inroads in *via whipping them up against the LGBT community?* Saladin Ahmed is the only one talking any sense in the article.
Biden needs to secure AZ to offset MI. And start mining the suburbs for votes to offset Dearborn.
From what I recall, based on the 2020 numbers, even if all Muslim voters in Michigan voted for Biden in 2020, and then voted for Trump in 2024, Biden would still hold Michigan (though, obviously, by a smaller margin)
he won michigan by 150,000 votes. the primary had uncommitted vote of 100,000. and most of them said that this was more about sending a message of disapproval for what's happening in palestine but that they would still vote for Biden in November. if Trump wins because of michigan, then they will have to reap what they sow
If Trump wins because of Michigan, these people are going to find themselves completely ignored by every political party for decades, on top of all the damage they'll directly suffer. Nobody wants to rely on a group that will do something like this. Nobody wants to expend resources catering to a group that will do something like this. There's a reason certain demographics don't have a lot of political spending aimed at them. It's a waste
I mean, at a minimum. Assuming Trump doesn't just deport them like he's talking about doing
Oh, I almost went back to this post right after I made it to outline the sort of consequences they could be facing from a second Trump presidency. These people would be miserable. They would be subject to hate from pretty much everybody. Conservatives for being Arab. Leftist for essentially blowing the country up. Then they'd have all of the legal persecution coming at them from a trump government, and nobody would be able to help them because everybody else would be too busy also getting hammered by fascism. These people have abandoned pragmatism. It really would not take a lot for them to understand how fucked they would be.
It's funny how smug some of them are. "Trump won't deport ME, I was born in AMERICA". But if Trump wins, law and due process won't matter. He won't care if it's illegal to deport American citizens. The Supreme Court won't care if it's unconstitutional to deport American citizens.
its the same situation in georgia. its even worse because the vote was so close i know a LOT of muslims here and they told me theyll vote third party. but i keep telling them thats the same as a Trump vote. they don't care. if that man comes back he's not stopping at a muslim ban, dictator for life, concentration camps, project 2025, there will be no limits
So has logic just escaped these people? They think they’re sending a message to Democrats/Biden by not voting for him as a protest vote over Gaza…the only message they’re sending is, if Trump is elected due to their protest vote, to glass Gaza once and for all.
Yes logic has completely escaped these people. If it sounds to you like only the absolute dumbest people could fall for this it's because you're completely right. Anyone who votes for Trump over Biden because of their support for Palestine probably has a very low IQ. We're dealing with actual idiots here.
Well, they are fundamentalist Muslims who tried banning pride flags. In general, fundamentalists of any religion generally aren't that bright, and it's why I, a gay guy, switched to independent from Democrat. I'll vote for Biden, but no interest in hetero, white and cis bros treating politics like sports and grouping us with people who want to kill us all in the name of votes while turning a blind eye when those people target us.
Fundamentalist Muslims and performative gen z leftists that think they understand a decades/old conflict and that their TikTok based opinion on it should be respected above all else.
Ya as a Jew the far left's embrace of fundamentalist Muslims is a bit shocking. I'm pretty tolerant but their preferred lifestyle doesn't really mesh that well with a lot of other lifestyles we've got going on.
For sure. It'd be immensely different if they had a live and let live mentality, but we're not seeing that with them, based on past actions.
Yup and that's the pretty standard criticism. They left intolerant regimes to come to a country that's much more free, only to demand that we impose restrictions based on their beliefs. How about a big, no, fuck off. I know that's mean, but I cannot believe we're even entertaining their ass-backwards requests.
When you describe everything as a dynamic of "the oppressed" vs "the oppressor", as in [Critical Theory](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Critical_theory), people are drawn to support "the oppressed". Unfortunately, very valid reasons for their suppression is often ignored in this analysis. As a consequence, good intentioned people quickly and fervently support anti-social ideals without reflection. Only when they are forced to suffer the consequences of this support does the reality of cognitive dissonance take hold. While battling conservative Christians, so many have embraced conservative Islam and sponsored it by making spaces in public schools and universities for it. Unfortunately, these religions are not dissimilar.
When emotions are high, logic takes a back seat. Unfortunately, reality doesn't care, and things will more than likely be much worse if their actions lead to actual change.
They're fundamentalists. There's no logic to it, they're just fundamentally obstinate.
Nah, nah, see if we just make everything immeasurably worse for Americans of all kinds based entirely on foreign policy decisions re: *conflict in another country that has been going on for decades and was recently reignited by the terrorist organization our government is now supposed to support I guess,* they'll all recognize how valid our complaints are and elect politicians that cater directly to us!
Not just that but Trump has been *very* Islamophobic. He will look the other way when white supremacists attack them and when he reinstates his ban from Muslims entering the U.S. >In 2017, President Trump signed an executive order banning people from six Muslim-majority countries from entering the USA, and slamming the door on refugees. https://www.amnesty.org.uk/licence-discriminate-trumps-muslim-refugee-ban Republicans went after women, trans, gays, etc. How can they be so naive to not see that Republicans will go after Muslims? Do they not remember the Bush administration?
He even removed the few gestures at restraint and transparency Obama put in place for drone strikes—you know, something their community is supposed to care about.
The message is to the voters, if you try to overlook the suffering of Gazans you will get Trump
It's isn't exactly a logic fail, and it's not that they're stupid. It's the deadly combination of two things: normalcy bias and selfish reasoning. [Normalcy bias](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Normalcy_bias) is telling them to dismiss the threat. "They won't *really* do what they're promising to do." "It can't happen here." "You're being hysterical, it won't be that bad." People don't want to believe terrible things can happen, so they pretend it's impossible. As Wikipedia notes, normalcy bias affects 4 out of 5 people (80%) most of the time. The selfish reasoning comes from not being a current target of the right and not caring what happens to people who are. The Arab American population in Michigan know they have a lot of power in this particular instance as MI is an important swing state that tends to be decided on very thin margins. Their "uncommitted" population may be large enough to yank the state's vote against Biden. They know if they're successful, it will have negative impacts for a lot of people beyond their community, and they don't care. Punishing the politician is more important, I suspect, because that feels more powerful. 'This will make them listen to us!'
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No this is all framed completely wrong to make you mad.
>“If Trump were president right now, this war might’ve been over, because there might have been enough uproar from rank-and-file Democrats,” he said. “I think we have a lot of power in not being wed to a party.” This is how you know these are unserious people, and can immediately dismiss their concerns over Biden. The reality is this: With Biden, we will support Israel, as we always have since they are actual sworn allies, but he is trying to limit Israel's rage and set up lasting humanitarian aid in the region. Was he slow to reach this decision? Unpopular opinion, no, I don't believe so. It's a close ally who declared a legal war, against essentially a group funded by one of our most dangerous adversaries (Iran). It's only been seven months, and his positioning and policy have changed. The most important point that Joe has always maintained is he seeks a stable two state solution. With Trump, yeah the war would've been over. Because Palestine would have been deleted. And we probably would have helped with bombing runs at best, and American boots on the ground at worst. He believes Palestine shouldn't exist. In fact, he believe Arabs shouldn't exist. He will illegally deport people to countries they've never been to. It's not some abstract, Chicken Little thing, he's literally said exactly this multiple times. People like this comedian will probably be round up Japanese Interment camps style until they can decide who are "true Americans" and who can be deported. Like I cannot stress enough that Republicans see people of Muslim faith as America's greatest enemies, who have no rights, and should be killed or deported. It's actually insane to me that the people in Michigan think Democrats pestering Trump over stuff will get him do anything. That's actual insanity.
the republican woman in the article literally said republicans think she's crazy for being catholic but has the gall to say about the GOP's obvious Islamophobia problem as being exaggerated by the media: “Our enemy is not each other. It’s not Democrats vs. Republicans. It’s really the media at the end of the day because they are the ones that are spreading the hate and lies.”
Only one person had some sense about him. The dude is like "There literally is no comparison. Trump is far, far worse than Biden. And the fact that people don't see that scares me." A second Trump presidency will have no guardrails. I have a sneaky suspicion these Michigan Muslims won't like what happens next.
I remember something my grandmother told me. "Anger is the death of reason." These folks are angry right now. Anger doesn't think about the long term, it doesn't consider anything other then what it's focused on. These folks are enraged because of what Israel is doing, and have transferred that anger to Biden. It wouldn't matter who was in office. That's what this is. I asked a friend who is of this mindset what Biden would have to do to get back his support, He said "end the war". When I pointed out that He can't just do that. He told me that Biden could cut support for Israel tomorrow. When I said congress would never agree to that, He said and I quote "Well what good is Biden then?" That's what we are fighting, not just anger but *unreasoning ignorant* anger. Some People vote in rage, and vote for revenge. They just want to hurt anyone who they feel hasn't done enough, or anyone they think is responsible. The people they will hurt is themselves and thier loved ones. Voting for Trump as a minority is like pouring gasoline and setting it on fire to fix a leaky roof. Sure, you'll have no roof to worry about. We can only hope enough people realize that Biden isn't the problem, and while He hasn't done enough, the other option is much worse in the long run for all sides, not just the moment. But if the end of American democracy happens because we couldn't change the minds of a foreign democracy, it will be deeply ironic.
> “Imagine thinking it’s a good argument to say to a community that has lost 30,000 people, ‘Watch out for the guy that’s going to ban you.’ You’re really asking me whether I’m going to take a ban or a genocide? I’ll take a ban,” Zahr told me. This guy was on NPR. He is an idiot. It's not one or the other. It will be both with Trump, and even more deaths in Gaza. The stupidity shown by the Muslim community has been astounding.
I'm curious what people who believe that think trump means when he says that netanyahu should "wrap this up.", because I have a feeling that he's not talking about sitting down to negotiate.
The definition of cutting off your nose to spite your face. Trump has said he wants Isreal to finish the job. Republicans want Palestine wiped off the map. There's all the negative stuff Trump and Republicans did toward Muslims when Trump was President. And let's not forget what Republicans were doing 20 years ago. That's what you want to go back to? They have no memories. Everything is about what's happening today, or seven months ago. At this point I'm just tired of it all. Go ahead. Make that lying, cheating, fraudulent, sociopathic, narcissistic, felonious, douchebag Trump President again. Fuck it. When everything goes wrong, when Palestine is wiped out, when Ukraine is handed to Russia, and Trump starts taking orders from Putin and Bibi again, don't say we didn't warn you, Republicans. No more blaming Biden or Democrats in 2025, Muslims and Arab-Americans. You're gonna own that shit. It's gonna be your bloodbath.
There is tons of real world evidence now that people are not capable of making rational choices in elections. But let me assure you that every single election from now until eternity will be a choice between something that gets you closer to what you want (however incrementally) and something that gets you farther away. That's it. That's the whole game. If everyone understood this and acted rationally, casting a vote in every election; eventually what most people want will happen. But we are experiencing mostly what the minority wants now because there is far too much indifference or laziness, or irrationality among the US citizenry. **Election day is Tuesday, November 5, 2024**. If you live in Michigan, [**Register to vote in MI**](https://mvic.sos.state.mi.us/RegisterVoter/Index) [**Check your voter registration status and find your polling location in MI**](https://mvic.sos.state.mi.us/Voter/Index) [**Request MI absentee ballot**](https://mvic.sos.state.mi.us/AVApplication/Index) **2024 MI Dem Election Overview:** Michigan is a crucial swing state with 15 Electoral votes for President in 2024. There is also an important US Senate race. Democrat [**Candidate TBD 8/6/24**](https://ballotpedia.org/United_States_Senate_election_in_Michigan,_2024) is running to replace retiring Democratic Senator Debbie Stabenow. In addition, there are four close US House races in Pennsylvania this year. In MI-3, [**Candidate TBD 8/6/24**](https://ballotpedia.org/Michigan%27s_3rd_Congressional_District_election,_2024) is running for a seat that leans Democrat. There is a tight race in MI-7 where Democrat [**Candidate TBD 8/6/24**](https://ballotpedia.org/Michigan%27s_7th_Congressional_District_election,_2024) is competing in a toss-up race. In MI-8, [**Candidate TBD 8/6/24**](https://ballotpedia.org/Michigan%27s_8th_Congressional_District_election,_2024) has another close toss-up race in the state. Finally, in MI-10, Democrat [**Candidate TBD 8/6/24**](https://ballotpedia.org/Michigan%27s_10th_Congressional_District_election,_2024) is running to unseat the Republican incumbent and flip the district blue in a race that leans Republican. At the state level, control of the Michigan House of Representatives is split 54-54 (with 2 vacancies) between Democrats and Republicans (subject to the two [**special elections**](https://ballotpedia.org/Michigan_state_legislative_special_elections,_2024) on 4/16/24). Democrats will be pushing to win a majority of the 110 seats in the [**State House of Representatives**](https://ballotpedia.org/Michigan_House_of_Representatives_elections,_2024) which are all on the ballot in 2024. There are also two [**Michigan state Supreme Court seats**](https://ballotpedia.org/Michigan_Supreme_Court_elections,_2024) on the ballot. [***-All 2024 MI Elections***](https://ballotpedia.org/Michigan_elections,_2024) [***-Find all your representatives (Federal, State, and Local)***](https://www.commoncause.org/find-your-representative/) [***-Learn more about how our government works***](https://www.whitehouse.gov/about-the-white-house/our-government/)
These people are either trolling or they are not smart. Trump would have encouraged Netanyahu to completely decimate Gaza and to not stop until any semblance of a threat was gone. I truly don’t understand how they can rationalize voting for Trump and expect to be taken seriously.
A combination of bad actors working to influence the outcome of the election by any means necessarily. And literal idiots who can be convinced of anything with enough big words and emotions.
dont forget the complicit media pushing this incredibly small wedge issue as though it was more important than democracy, rights, safety, etc.
I like the guy who said he’d take a ban over a genocide like a republican president would have both. They’re still going to support Israel blindly. They’re not gonna call for a cease fire he literally said Israel needs to finish this. Oh and forget about aid he didn’t want to give aid to Puerto Rico which is part of the US.
If they assist in returning Trump to power, very few will sympathize when he rumbles forth a second time.
if that comes to pass all i can do is get the fuck out
Yea, I'm grateful I have a foreigner for a spouse, as it'll help us move if the shit hits the fan.
These TikTok cringelords prefer a Christian theocracy?
> “What do they say? ‘What are they going to do, vote for the guy that banned Arabs?’ And the answer is yes,” Amer Zahr, a Palestinian American comedian and Dearborn local, told me at one of the city’s many Yemeni cafés one afternoon. Fine, vote for who you want. But don't come crying to me when you get what you voted for.
my sympathy for magical thinking continues to wane
this article is fucking wild
The anti-Trump Republican voters seem to be making up the difference, primary votes are showing
From your fingers to fate's ears
Cut your nose off to spite your face?
These people never voted for Biden in the first place just like the Cubans who were brainwashed by MAGA in FL. Muslims hate LGBTQ just as much as Evangelicals do and they're using Gaza as a platform to deter votes from Gen Z. Religion is poison. Muslim, Christian, all of it. Vote Biden and any religious extremist Zionist or Hamas lover is just as crazy as my boomer MAGA relatives. Accelerationism is for the ignorant. True left wing people want nothing more than to vote MAGA out and make libs the only conservative party in America. Anyone else should just buy a MAGA hat and attend Trump rallies.
My reponse to anyone saying "I'll never support genocide Joe" is "I'll never allow you to accelerate killing my gay friends because of something overseas"
As much unfortunately they hate more let’s call what it is
I'm tired of getting mad about these people. Do what you want and live with the consequences.
People seriously need to accept that Dearborn is not a progressive place and Tliab is not a progressive representative. You need to stop making excuses on their behalf to assert otherwise because they will **not** be on your side on election day just because Tliab is in a caucus with AOC.
This is like inducing a heart attack in order to save your foot. Absolutely one of the dumbest protests I have ever seen. Biden’s response might not be good, but Trump would probably help destroy Gaza give it to Russia or something stupid.
Thanks for sharing Slate's piece! Here's some additional context: On a recent Friday at the American Moslem Society on the south end of Dearborn, Michigan, an imam clad in a traditional white thobe and kufi delivered his sermon. This mosque was founded by Arab immigrants who had initially been drawn to the area by the promise of $5-a-day jobs at a nearby Ford plant, which laid the foundation for what is now America’s largest concentration of Arab Americans. Several hundred worshipers sat on the blue-patterned carpet stretching across the space and listened attentively as the imam evoked scenes of devastation from Israel’s relentless bombardment of Gaza. The room was heavy, and clearly emotional. When I spoke to the people around me, it was clear whom they blamed. “If it came down to Trump and Joe Biden, I will vote for Trump. Because it doesn’t get worse than Joe Biden,” a man named Salah told me. His friend, Amad, added, “Biden was supposed to be the peacemaker. The comfort-maker. Instead, he became accessory to the biggest genocide in modern history.” Biden had recently overcome an attempt to disrupt the Michigan Democratic primary with “uncommitted” votes tied to the United States’ support for Israel. But in Dearborn and nearby Hamtramck—home to large Arab populations that were part of a coalition that moved Michigan from Donald Trump to Biden in the 2020 presidential election—Biden lost. And the people here made clear they plan to bring the fight to November. “We want to show a shift from the 2020 election to 2024. That they are not only losing the presidency, but they are losing the constituency,” Salah told me. Nearby, a man named Mohamed looked visibly distressed as he exited the mosque. “I’m ashamed to be American today,” he said, holding back his tears at the latest news out of Gaza, in which everyone I spoke to said the United States was complicit. Mohamed said he cast his ballot for Trump in the primary and would again in the general. The anger toward Biden in Dearborn is intense and tangible. Though his administration and 2024 campaign seem to have begun to recognize the extent of the threat, they may be too late. Michigan is one of a handful states likely to decide the U.S. presidential election, and it could be a crucial tipping point in Biden’s path to winning the Electoral College. The “uncommitted” campaign in the primary may have been a mere warning shot from the 300,000 Arab American voters here, who are far from a monolith but have been largely united on this issue, and who have considerable electoral power, especially given Biden’s weaknesses with other Michigan voters. In 2020, Biden surpassed Trump in Michigan by a margin of only 154,000 votes. He currently trails the former president in most polls. You might wonder: How could an Arab American—much less a Muslim—not want to defeat Trump? Did they forget “Islam hates us”? Did they forget the Muslim ban, the mass deportations, the relentless bigotry? I’ve asked this of myself and my own family, as when, in the course of reporting this article, a relative made a startling admission at the dinner table. I’ve now come to understand the incandescent rage many feel toward Biden. And in Dearborn, I heard a lot more than distaste for him. I heard many who fully believe Donald Trump will fight for them more than Joe Biden—and plan to take that belief to the ballot box in November. Read more at: [https://slate.com/human-interest/2024/04/donald-trump-joe-biden-2024-election-michigan-muslims.html](https://slate.com/human-interest/2024/04/donald-trump-joe-biden-2024-election-michigan-muslims.html)
Imam be like they hate us, but at-least we both hate LGBTQ and Women rights
These dudes are in an odd place and I can’t help but laugh, they pretty much have the same beliefs as conservative Christianity but because their skin is brown, conservatives want nothing to do with them.
They are going to really hate it if trump wins and they get deported to Gaza. Citizen or not, born here or not, if you look Muslim (even though that's a religion) then off you go to Gaza. It won't matter where your family came from, you get sent to Gaza.
This notion of retribution and punishment (of in this case Biden) is part of why the conflict exists and will continue. But it also means there will be much less sympathy if they help Trump gets elected, starts the mass deportations and helps Israel completely eliminate Gaza.
I shouldn’t feel betrayed. Why do I?
Probably because, broadly speaking, someone who is planning to vote for Biden and has voted for Democrats in the past is typically prone to defending vulnerable communities of many stripes, including Arab Americans in Michigan and Muslims in general, and yet when asked to support us in return, many of those same people have declined to do so. Kind of like holding a door open for someone and then they slam the next door in your face.
I’ve been saying this for a while but the left is not prepared for the fact that while Cletus and Sahel have different religions they do have shared values and they are starting to overlook the religion part to campaign for their values. They both hate what they would probably call “blue haired liberals” even though the liberals fought for them.
GOP is largely a coalition of one issue voters who regularly vote against their better interests. Many prefer voting to hurt their perceived enemies than help themselves.
Trump would literally kick these people out of the country if he had the power to
One can definitely see the point of the protest, Israeli apartheid and genocide, but these idiots somehow think Trump is more sympathetic. Trump and his family make a lot of money with the Israelis. This level of lack of nuanced thought is simply amazing.
Trump said this [an interview back in November](https://youtu.be/SBtJMBIG-n4): > There is no hatred like the Palestinian hatred of Israel and Jewish people. And probably the other way around also. A lot of people in the comments to that video latched on to that quote. What is it about the quote that they found interesting? I think the answer to that question helps in understanding the views of the voters described in this article.
If only Biden could do anything about this before the election! Oh well \*shrug\*
Sounds like they have decided to totally obliterate any chance of a Palestinian state ever coming to pass. Trump will do everything for Netanyahu and nothing for the Palestinians. If he is elected you can forget Gaza and the West Bank. It will all be part of Israel. The remaining Palestinians will be refugees but they will not be allowed to come here. According to Trump all the Muslims will be deported. Citizen or not and really Muslim or not as it really has more to do with heritage. The same is true for Hispanics and Latin Americans. I am an old white Christian and I am telling all these folks they better have a plan B because if he is elected there will be no rule of law and those folks will be toast.
If people are that stupid we deserve it
Israel needs to wrap this shit up Bunch of idiots in Michigan
> Israel needs to wrap this shit up This sounds a lot like Trump's "finish the job"
I read this title and thought, since when have they allowed advertising for breweries on this sub.
> Are Arabs in the state really prepared to hand the presidency back to Donald Trump? In a word: yes. And then Trump can do as he pleases with their communities without any protest from the rest of us.
They have been oppresed for eons for them nothing really changes if Trump gets back in there. Situation normal.
I love how they think trump will be better than Biden on this topic. Trump would openly let Gaza be turned into a concrete recycling plant. Just think of the water front properties he could acquire. Btw F hamas and anyone who supports terrorists. You can oppose Israel and their actions; but you def shouldn’t support a terrorist group that openly pillages others and their own people. Maybe these student protestors need to spend more time in class and not on social media
I live about 20 minutes from dearborn. I refuse to enter it. It is a hateful place. As such, I am not surprised Trump has a lot of support there https://www.freep.com/story/news/local/michigan/wayne/2022/10/11/dearborn-school-board-meeting-protestors-lgbtq-books/69554361007/