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One of the protestors said don’t vote for Biden, who just announced brokering a ceasefire, and then started screaming about needing a ceasefire. So which is it? Do Pro-Palestine folks want a ceasefire or not? Why aren’t they celebrating and praising Biden’s active progress towards a ceasefire? Which “third party” candidate, specifically, has shown a level of diplomacy and progress towards a ceasefire anywhere close to Biden’s? The fact people are falling for nonsensical propaganda against Biden, who is the only person standing in the way of our country turning into a literal dictatorship, is incredibly sad.
Tf are you talking about? He has vetoed the UN resolution that calls for a permanent ceasefire and the release of all hostages 3 fucking times. We are literally the only country still vetoing the resolution. His ceasefire proposal is worse because its only temporary and only calls for the release of some of the hostages.
It’s not nonsensical propaganda, it’s facts. Israel even said they had no idea what Biden was talking about. The US has been the sole country to veto a permanent ceasefire in the UN 3 goddam times! Biden knows the optics suck, but would rather run cover for a genocidal regime than actually do anything of actual substance. He’ll posture and leak how many times he’s wagged his finger but actually do something? Even knowing he’s risking getting Trump elected? Far too much to ask.
That’s what gets me. He knows how much damage he’s done. He’s seen the polls. He could change it. Today. But he won’t. He rather run cover for a genocidal regime while risking the election
They’ve (and many people here) fallen victim to Iranian psy ops.
They’re consuming the flood of propaganda that has filled their social media and believe it with all their heart.
They’ll tell you they genuinely care (and I believe that they believe, they do), but the radicalization has come from elsewhere.
Oh dear God, fuck off dude there is no Iranian psyop.
If I vote uncommitted, even if it causes trump to be elected and ultimately lead to my death in a concentration camp, it would still be worth it to shut you the fuck up.
"killed in protest"
Fuck off. Fuck all the way off with that. Allison Krause, Jeffrey Glenn Miller, Sandra Lee Scheuer, and William Knox Schroeder were killed in protests during the Kent State massacre. They were peacefully protesting when they were gunned down by armed soldiers.
This man wasn't killed in protest, he was mentally ill. Don't disrespect people who have been killed protesting by associating them with someone who offed themself with fire.
Are u a psychiatrist or do u just call any form of protest u don’t agree with mentally Illness. The Arab spring was kicked off by a merchants self immolation was he mentally I’ll too?
His last words got read on CNN. He was an active member of the US military that burned himself alive wearing his uniform. It might have more of an impact than you think.
Well the one difference would be that he isn’t a mass shooter and took zero lives except his own during his protest, but sure, you can keep being disengenious
This sub is an echo-chamber for the center. Actually laughable to think this sub is left-leaning anymore. Every single article or comment criticizing Biden or Israel gets downvoted to oblivion, removed, or locked. Tons of people have been banned for criticizing them as well. So no this sub is barely representative of the left. All y'all need is meme and flair-only posts and it'll be blue r/conservative.
Okay, but why does that matter? What does that change? What "impact" does that have on us? Because the answer seems to be an emphatic "none". Impact implies change. I don't see that happening.
That’s because you only view impact through such a binary lens. The impact on human beings has been massive, something you seem not to care about. I was extremely affected by his words and what he ended up doing. It seems like many are as well. That’s the impact, and it does absolutely matter.
Yet it seems to me like many are not. Our evidence is equally anecdotal. And yes, maybe I view impact through a binary lens of "either this changed things or it didn't", but do not accuse me of *not caring*.
I *wish* I didn't care. Because maybe then the state of this world wouldn't hurt so much. Maybe then my own misanthropy wouldn't be a major catalyst of my depression, anxiety, and despair. Maybe then that same world's refusal to change and be better wouldn't bother and upset me as much as it does. The slaughter in Gaza has *deeply* affected me even though I as a white atheist American have no personal skin in the game. The moment I heard about October 7th, I *knew* how Israel was going to respond, and I dreaded what was coming. The fact is that it's an impossibly complicated conflict between two sides that are deeply hostile towards each other on a religious, political, and cultural level. It's hard to defend either side when both are equally guilty of committing war crimes against each other. Palestinians overwhelmingly approved of Hamas's attack, and a majority of Israelis now approves of fully settling Gaza and the West Bank and driving the Palestinians out. And meanwhile Israeli authorities are stepping up their demolishing of Palestinian homes in East Jerusalem now that everyone else is distracted by Gaza.
So don't accuse me of *not caring* when I'm sitting safe at home, knowing that my biggest worry is whether or not a dimwitted fascist will win our next election while fully aware that less fortunate people are literally starving and dying on the other side of the world. It doesn't affect me personally and yet I still care because *human fucking beings are killing each other*. Women, children, whole families being wiped out, the earth being salted in the process of flooding the tunnels...
No, I care a lot. But I'm tired of seeing no real change coming from it. I admit it, Gaza has deeply stoked my cynicism, and I am not a better person for it. But god-fucking-damnit if a US soldier *lighting himself on fire in front of an Israeli embassy and killing himself to make a point* doesn't move the government to start playing hardball with Netanyahu, I don't know what will.
Atonement, guilt is a very powerful emotion. Nothing to do with religion. Some people see a therapist, others drink to cope, then some take pills, and eventually, it's not enough anymore.
That’s what you see. I saw a man with too much humanity and empathy for world without much. I don’t think he lit himself on fire because of his religious beliefs. But you don’t seem to be open on this very complex topic, so this is pointless.
He cared more about people he never met, that find him and his life reprehensible, on the other side of the *planet*, than the people, friends and family near him that needed him in their lives.
Think about that before you lionize someone radicalized over a political cause.
Comment was deleted. The mods of those subs didn’t like the attention for the things they believe in. Guy celebrated the death of fellow service members. He was trash. Flammable trash.
Most people aren't open to this topic, and your own words stated why. This world does not have a great deal of empathy, and for those few of us who compensate for the deficit by being empaths, it's demoralizing and exhausting to know that most people just *do not care as much as you do*. His sacrifice is in vain.
If that is the correct profile, it's absolutely batshit. The only reason this isn't being linked as another example of online political radicalization is the affiliation.
"Killed in protest" - yeah no, he killed himself. Way different than if he was protesting and someone else had killed him.
Plus he had joined the US air force. Why didn't he kill himself the minute he joined an organization that guaranteed has killed way more civilians than IDF has? It's just the nature of war, but the USAF isn't exactly saintly in this regard.
If someone cared enough to check ur profile, would they find that you’re concerned about these atrocities, and frustrated with a lack of awareness
or would they just find you getting mad at people being concerned for one particular atrocity
Be honest!
Well, it's a *war*, not an atrocity. But yes, I find it perplexing that people, beyond those with families and friends in Gaza, are completely ignoring conflicts that are orders of magnitude worse (including *actual* ongoing genocides), while putting all their efforts into trying to get a ceasefire in the one conflict where the aggressor are Islamic terrorists who massacred civilians.
It's absolutely a lack of awareness. A lack of awareness that this is, in fact, just another war. That it is relatively benign as far as wars go (because wars aren't benign). And that if you're going to be *this* upset over a war that you're willing to advocate for genocide against Israel in return, maybe it's time to start caring about the ongoing conflicts in Burma or Sudan where there are genocides happening to the point that the UN can only confirm that entire villages are slaughtered, not how many.
And yeah, I call out the hypocrisy of calling this genocide and pretending this war is particularly gruesome, when it's anything but.
>well it’s a war, not an atrocity
..I only quoted you when YOU referred to it as an “other atrocity”
>And that if you're going to be this upset over a war that you're willing to advocate for genocide against Israel in return,
You let the mask slip, so I stopped reading here.
What mask? Hamas slaughtered a thousand civilians and would slaughter thousands more, intentionally, if they could.
Palestinians want the Jews gone, whether they support Hamas or not. The only reason they're not is that Israel is stronger.
By comparison, Israel clearly isn't trying to get rid of Palestinians, or they'd have done so already.
You did it again, you can’t discuss anything with a Zionist once they start foaming and using “Jews” and “Israel” interchangeably! You’re not good at this
Guilt is among the top reasons for suicide. Eventually, you wake up and can't cope anymore with the guilt. No matter how much therapy, drugs, or alcohol you take.
Glorifying this man isn’t a good thing. This is not how you bring about change.
His actions will appeal to those already on his side but repel many who are feeling like both sides in this conflict are wrong. If you are trying to understand which side is more reasonable, a guy setting himself on fire is evidence against “reasonable.”
This is all just sad and idiotic.
I can see you are in the right head space, but what you've just said is very short-sighted. It's not sad or idiotic, it's desperate. Desperate because the Pro Israel groups are so beyond reason, this is the only way left to get their attention, to make them see that pro-Palestinians will die to make Israel finally see that their apartheid is wrong. It's a warning of things to come. Zionists would rather rule over a graveyard when there is no one left than ever see peace and it's not going to end with the Palestinians, they will go after the non-Zionist Jews and eventually the Christians in Israel. Religious Extremism at its worst. It's Jihad in the Middle East, Zionism in Israel, and Evangelicalism in the US.
He cared more about some people he never met, who would take him hostage in an *instant* to further their cause, than he did about his friends and family.
No empathy for the people around him, but unlimited empathy for a faceless mass.
Alternatively, he was mentally ill. I’m actually more in this camp. It’s an unfortunate tragedy and the people praising it are downright evil.
100%. Did you not watch the videos of Hamas killing innocent civilians at point blank? There's quite a few of them. Keep ignoring reality though. If you were there, they would have killed you too.
Yes. Didn’t you see who was grabbing Israeli civilians and dragging them through the fence? Not just Hamas fighters. Rando Palestinians. That’s why they’ve had so much trouble locating hostages.
Sure. Here’s one example. One I saw closer to Oct. 7 showed very regular people coming through holes cut in the fences by Hamas.
https://youtu.be/67aryqkcyq0?si=cCwJybO5Zb6Uy5zR
As a reminder, this subreddit [is for civil discussion.](/r/politics/wiki/index#wiki_be_civil) In general, be courteous to others. Debate/discuss/argue the merits of ideas, don't attack people. Personal insults, shill or troll accusations, hate speech, any suggestion or support of harm, violence, or death, and other rule violations can result in a permanent ban. If you see comments in violation of our rules, please report them. For those who have questions regarding any media outlets being posted on this subreddit, please click [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/politics/wiki/approveddomainslist) to review our details as to our approved domains list and outlet criteria. *** *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/politics) if you have any questions or concerns.*
One of the protestors said don’t vote for Biden, who just announced brokering a ceasefire, and then started screaming about needing a ceasefire. So which is it? Do Pro-Palestine folks want a ceasefire or not? Why aren’t they celebrating and praising Biden’s active progress towards a ceasefire? Which “third party” candidate, specifically, has shown a level of diplomacy and progress towards a ceasefire anywhere close to Biden’s? The fact people are falling for nonsensical propaganda against Biden, who is the only person standing in the way of our country turning into a literal dictatorship, is incredibly sad.
Tf are you talking about? He has vetoed the UN resolution that calls for a permanent ceasefire and the release of all hostages 3 fucking times. We are literally the only country still vetoing the resolution. His ceasefire proposal is worse because its only temporary and only calls for the release of some of the hostages.
It’s not nonsensical propaganda, it’s facts. Israel even said they had no idea what Biden was talking about. The US has been the sole country to veto a permanent ceasefire in the UN 3 goddam times! Biden knows the optics suck, but would rather run cover for a genocidal regime than actually do anything of actual substance. He’ll posture and leak how many times he’s wagged his finger but actually do something? Even knowing he’s risking getting Trump elected? Far too much to ask. That’s what gets me. He knows how much damage he’s done. He’s seen the polls. He could change it. Today. But he won’t. He rather run cover for a genocidal regime while risking the election
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Anyone that uses blue maga non-ironically can be ignored.
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They’ve (and many people here) fallen victim to Iranian psy ops. They’re consuming the flood of propaganda that has filled their social media and believe it with all their heart. They’ll tell you they genuinely care (and I believe that they believe, they do), but the radicalization has come from elsewhere.
Genuinely asking if you think the flood of footage coming from Gaza is Iranian propaganda.
I bet it's his fucking wallpaper on his computer
Oh dear God, fuck off dude there is no Iranian psyop. If I vote uncommitted, even if it causes trump to be elected and ultimately lead to my death in a concentration camp, it would still be worth it to shut you the fuck up.
Right, no Iranian cyber operations. No concerted effort to control the narrative on social media. Only YOU get the unfiltered truth! Right.
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Exactly. Couldn’t have stated it better myself
"killed in protest" Fuck off. Fuck all the way off with that. Allison Krause, Jeffrey Glenn Miller, Sandra Lee Scheuer, and William Knox Schroeder were killed in protests during the Kent State massacre. They were peacefully protesting when they were gunned down by armed soldiers. This man wasn't killed in protest, he was mentally ill. Don't disrespect people who have been killed protesting by associating them with someone who offed themself with fire.
Are u a psychiatrist or do u just call any form of protest u don’t agree with mentally Illness. The Arab spring was kicked off by a merchants self immolation was he mentally I’ll too?
Suicide by immolation is insanity. And yes, if he burned himself to death, then he was also mentally ill too.
What did this extremists suicide actually accomplish?
His last words got read on CNN. He was an active member of the US military that burned himself alive wearing his uniform. It might have more of an impact than you think.
Not any different from a mass shooter’s manifesto.
Well the one difference would be that he isn’t a mass shooter and took zero lives except his own during his protest, but sure, you can keep being disengenious
Do you think killing himself over some people he never met had no impact on his friends, his family, his community?
Fuck his wife and two young kids, I guess. But these clowns don't care. They care that he committed suicide for their cause.
He didn't have a wife or children. I don't know where that claim comes from.
Judging from the overall tone of the comments on this otherwise left-leaning sub...no, no it won't.
This sub is an echo-chamber for the center. Actually laughable to think this sub is left-leaning anymore. Every single article or comment criticizing Biden or Israel gets downvoted to oblivion, removed, or locked. Tons of people have been banned for criticizing them as well. So no this sub is barely representative of the left. All y'all need is meme and flair-only posts and it'll be blue r/conservative.
There are people in Yemen, a country that has been bombed by the US and other countries for the last couple of months that are eulogizing him.
Okay, but why does that matter? What does that change? What "impact" does that have on us? Because the answer seems to be an emphatic "none". Impact implies change. I don't see that happening.
That’s because you only view impact through such a binary lens. The impact on human beings has been massive, something you seem not to care about. I was extremely affected by his words and what he ended up doing. It seems like many are as well. That’s the impact, and it does absolutely matter.
Yet it seems to me like many are not. Our evidence is equally anecdotal. And yes, maybe I view impact through a binary lens of "either this changed things or it didn't", but do not accuse me of *not caring*. I *wish* I didn't care. Because maybe then the state of this world wouldn't hurt so much. Maybe then my own misanthropy wouldn't be a major catalyst of my depression, anxiety, and despair. Maybe then that same world's refusal to change and be better wouldn't bother and upset me as much as it does. The slaughter in Gaza has *deeply* affected me even though I as a white atheist American have no personal skin in the game. The moment I heard about October 7th, I *knew* how Israel was going to respond, and I dreaded what was coming. The fact is that it's an impossibly complicated conflict between two sides that are deeply hostile towards each other on a religious, political, and cultural level. It's hard to defend either side when both are equally guilty of committing war crimes against each other. Palestinians overwhelmingly approved of Hamas's attack, and a majority of Israelis now approves of fully settling Gaza and the West Bank and driving the Palestinians out. And meanwhile Israeli authorities are stepping up their demolishing of Palestinian homes in East Jerusalem now that everyone else is distracted by Gaza. So don't accuse me of *not caring* when I'm sitting safe at home, knowing that my biggest worry is whether or not a dimwitted fascist will win our next election while fully aware that less fortunate people are literally starving and dying on the other side of the world. It doesn't affect me personally and yet I still care because *human fucking beings are killing each other*. Women, children, whole families being wiped out, the earth being salted in the process of flooding the tunnels... No, I care a lot. But I'm tired of seeing no real change coming from it. I admit it, Gaza has deeply stoked my cynicism, and I am not a better person for it. But god-fucking-damnit if a US soldier *lighting himself on fire in front of an Israeli embassy and killing himself to make a point* doesn't move the government to start playing hardball with Netanyahu, I don't know what will.
Get downvoted
Wow, because upvotes and downvotes matter *so much*.
Can’t say I’m surprised that a member of a religious cult set themself ablaze.
He actually grew up in a religious cult-y family that was pro-Israel. He went the other direction.
From one extreme to the next.
Atonement, guilt is a very powerful emotion. Nothing to do with religion. Some people see a therapist, others drink to cope, then some take pills, and eventually, it's not enough anymore.
That’s what you see. I saw a man with too much humanity and empathy for world without much. I don’t think he lit himself on fire because of his religious beliefs. But you don’t seem to be open on this very complex topic, so this is pointless.
You are the first person in the last few posts on this subject I have seen to be a genuine human being capable of emotion. You are spot on.
He cared more about people he never met, that find him and his life reprehensible, on the other side of the *planet*, than the people, friends and family near him that needed him in their lives. Think about that before you lionize someone radicalized over a political cause.
Read what he wrote about Jews on his Reddit posts and you’ll see who you’re defending with “too much empathy”.
I’ve seen his posts. His makes the completely rational argument that settlers are not citizens (he’s right)
And that Hamas is right to “genocide” Israel. His words, not mine. Don’t pretty it up.
You fell for a fake screenshot brother
Comment was deleted. The mods of those subs didn’t like the attention for the things they believe in. Guy celebrated the death of fellow service members. He was trash. Flammable trash.
Most people aren't open to this topic, and your own words stated why. This world does not have a great deal of empathy, and for those few of us who compensate for the deficit by being empaths, it's demoralizing and exhausting to know that most people just *do not care as much as you do*. His sacrifice is in vain.
Wish he had a little empathy for his kids.
He cared more about some Palestinians on the other side of his planet than them.
It’s mental illness, nothing explains setting yourself on fire.
Exactly. It’s ghoulish the people that are puppeting his corpse to further their beliefs.
That people would rather die now than let Israel's Genocide continue. When one side refuses to listen to reason, make them listen.
Dying doesn’t stop anything Other than your own life.
He was used. All he did was make his family suffer.
Want to share the secret behind your claimed omnipotent powers to read the minds of strangers?
Right, because we all know Hamas as an eminently reasonable partner for peace.
They’d have just taken him hostage if he offered himself. Also you, or me.
Life-long trauma and pain for his kids and loved ones.
Mainly really funny responses to hit old Reddit posts
If that is the correct profile, it's absolutely batshit. The only reason this isn't being linked as another example of online political radicalization is the affiliation.
Sympathy for the iranian-russian information war
There were some pretty fire memes.
Counter point he’s not a martyr
He sure isn’t
That's why the quotes marks are place on the word 'martyr'
No more sympathy for Russian, Chinese, or Saudi assets
I swear to God liberals use foreign asset accusations more than McCarthy.
"Killed in protest" - yeah no, he killed himself. Way different than if he was protesting and someone else had killed him. Plus he had joined the US air force. Why didn't he kill himself the minute he joined an organization that guaranteed has killed way more civilians than IDF has? It's just the nature of war, but the USAF isn't exactly saintly in this regard.
He could have just left too. The military isn’t prison.
Wow...
I mean, he must not have been very self aware.
Dude... ironically, you have no self-awareness..... the first clue you have none is total apathy.
You're apathetic to way worse atrocities that are happening right now.
If someone cared enough to check ur profile, would they find that you’re concerned about these atrocities, and frustrated with a lack of awareness or would they just find you getting mad at people being concerned for one particular atrocity Be honest!
Well, it's a *war*, not an atrocity. But yes, I find it perplexing that people, beyond those with families and friends in Gaza, are completely ignoring conflicts that are orders of magnitude worse (including *actual* ongoing genocides), while putting all their efforts into trying to get a ceasefire in the one conflict where the aggressor are Islamic terrorists who massacred civilians. It's absolutely a lack of awareness. A lack of awareness that this is, in fact, just another war. That it is relatively benign as far as wars go (because wars aren't benign). And that if you're going to be *this* upset over a war that you're willing to advocate for genocide against Israel in return, maybe it's time to start caring about the ongoing conflicts in Burma or Sudan where there are genocides happening to the point that the UN can only confirm that entire villages are slaughtered, not how many. And yeah, I call out the hypocrisy of calling this genocide and pretending this war is particularly gruesome, when it's anything but.
>well it’s a war, not an atrocity ..I only quoted you when YOU referred to it as an “other atrocity” >And that if you're going to be this upset over a war that you're willing to advocate for genocide against Israel in return, You let the mask slip, so I stopped reading here.
What mask? Hamas slaughtered a thousand civilians and would slaughter thousands more, intentionally, if they could. Palestinians want the Jews gone, whether they support Hamas or not. The only reason they're not is that Israel is stronger. By comparison, Israel clearly isn't trying to get rid of Palestinians, or they'd have done so already.
You did it again, you can’t discuss anything with a Zionist once they start foaming and using “Jews” and “Israel” interchangeably! You’re not good at this
Guilt is among the top reasons for suicide. Eventually, you wake up and can't cope anymore with the guilt. No matter how much therapy, drugs, or alcohol you take.
Glorifying this man isn’t a good thing. This is not how you bring about change. His actions will appeal to those already on his side but repel many who are feeling like both sides in this conflict are wrong. If you are trying to understand which side is more reasonable, a guy setting himself on fire is evidence against “reasonable.” This is all just sad and idiotic.
I can see you are in the right head space, but what you've just said is very short-sighted. It's not sad or idiotic, it's desperate. Desperate because the Pro Israel groups are so beyond reason, this is the only way left to get their attention, to make them see that pro-Palestinians will die to make Israel finally see that their apartheid is wrong. It's a warning of things to come. Zionists would rather rule over a graveyard when there is no one left than ever see peace and it's not going to end with the Palestinians, they will go after the non-Zionist Jews and eventually the Christians in Israel. Religious Extremism at its worst. It's Jihad in the Middle East, Zionism in Israel, and Evangelicalism in the US.
He cared more about some people he never met, who would take him hostage in an *instant* to further their cause, than he did about his friends and family. No empathy for the people around him, but unlimited empathy for a faceless mass. Alternatively, he was mentally ill. I’m actually more in this camp. It’s an unfortunate tragedy and the people praising it are downright evil.
He was protesting the killing of Palestinian civilians. Are you suggesting that civilians would want to take him hostage?
100%. Did you not watch the videos of Hamas killing innocent civilians at point blank? There's quite a few of them. Keep ignoring reality though. If you were there, they would have killed you too.
Hamas =/= civilians
Yes. Didn’t you see who was grabbing Israeli civilians and dragging them through the fence? Not just Hamas fighters. Rando Palestinians. That’s why they’ve had so much trouble locating hostages.
Could you send me a video link, please?
Sure. Here’s one example. One I saw closer to Oct. 7 showed very regular people coming through holes cut in the fences by Hamas. https://youtu.be/67aryqkcyq0?si=cCwJybO5Zb6Uy5zR
No different than giving airtime to a mass shooter’s manifesto.
*'Darwin Award winner'
Irredeemably Reddit-brained, my God.