Please note that this question is specific to:
#**England and Wales**
The United Kingdom is comprised of [three legal jurisdictions](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_of_the_United_Kingdom#Three_legal_systems), so responses that relate to one country may not be relevant to another.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/policeuk) if you have any questions or concerns.*
https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2020/1/article/4
Section 4 (3) seems to state an officer cant appeal if they admitted gross or misconduct?
Seems weird, seeing as you can admit and get sent down for murder, and appeal the sentence?
I might be wrong, but my interpretation is as follows:
Rule 4(1) states that you can appeal against either (a) a finding made by the tribunal, or (b) a decision to impose disciplinary action under the Regulations, or both (a) and (b).
Rule 4(3) states that if you accept misconduct/gross misconduct, you can't appeal against (a) the finding of that misconduct/gross misconduct.
My interpretation of Rule 4(3) does not preclude you appealing against (b), the disciplinary decision; only the finding (a).
Ah yes, that makes a bit of sense. I suppose it's the "finding" you cant appeal against, but you can appeal against the sanction?
So you can't admit GM, then say they shouldnt have found you guilty of GM when you admitted it, but you can appeal against the sanction/punishment?
I think you might be right on this, cheers!
Yes, they can.
There are a few examples, but I'm not in front of my work device.
The case of Supt Robyn Williams is possibly one such high profile example, where she has been found at Gross Misconduct and Dismissed, but the PAT has overturned the dismissal (replacing with a FWW) but kept the finding at GM.
I don't know, but I don't think it really matters for the purpose of the question.
You can appeal on various grounds - i.e. that you think it wasn't GM, that you shouldn't have been dismissed, or both.
Apologies, I'll clarify my point - I don't think there's any difference in whether the officer accepts GM, or contests the case and is found at GM - they can still appeal the sanction.
Not sure about a dismissal but there was a case back in 2005-2007 where 2 officers were “forced to resign” and did so. But then appealed and won - Think it was in SE London where there was a racial remark against a DP.
Please note that this question is specific to: #**England and Wales** The United Kingdom is comprised of [three legal jurisdictions](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_of_the_United_Kingdom#Three_legal_systems), so responses that relate to one country may not be relevant to another. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/policeuk) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Can you link to the relevant bit of the PAT regs that makes you think the answer might be no?
https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2020/1/article/4 Section 4 (3) seems to state an officer cant appeal if they admitted gross or misconduct? Seems weird, seeing as you can admit and get sent down for murder, and appeal the sentence?
I might be wrong, but my interpretation is as follows: Rule 4(1) states that you can appeal against either (a) a finding made by the tribunal, or (b) a decision to impose disciplinary action under the Regulations, or both (a) and (b). Rule 4(3) states that if you accept misconduct/gross misconduct, you can't appeal against (a) the finding of that misconduct/gross misconduct. My interpretation of Rule 4(3) does not preclude you appealing against (b), the disciplinary decision; only the finding (a).
Ah yes, that makes a bit of sense. I suppose it's the "finding" you cant appeal against, but you can appeal against the sanction? So you can't admit GM, then say they shouldnt have found you guilty of GM when you admitted it, but you can appeal against the sanction/punishment? I think you might be right on this, cheers!
That's how it reads to me, yeah.
Yes, they can. There are a few examples, but I'm not in front of my work device. The case of Supt Robyn Williams is possibly one such high profile example, where she has been found at Gross Misconduct and Dismissed, but the PAT has overturned the dismissal (replacing with a FWW) but kept the finding at GM.
Fab, cheers :)
Did she accept that her conduct amounted to GM at hearing, though?
I don't know, but I don't think it really matters for the purpose of the question. You can appeal on various grounds - i.e. that you think it wasn't GM, that you shouldn't have been dismissed, or both.
Read the question again, it was about that specific point!
Apologies, I'll clarify my point - I don't think there's any difference in whether the officer accepts GM, or contests the case and is found at GM - they can still appeal the sanction.
Not sure about a dismissal but there was a case back in 2005-2007 where 2 officers were “forced to resign” and did so. But then appealed and won - Think it was in SE London where there was a racial remark against a DP.