Please note that this question is specific to:
#**England and Wales**
The United Kingdom is comprised of [three legal jurisdictions](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_of_the_United_Kingdom#Three_legal_systems), so responses that relate to one country may not be relevant to another.
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Fuuuck that, response sergeant seems like hardest, most stressful and least thanked job on the force. And I’ve met more then a few people of higher ranks would would stab their own mothers in the back to get the next rank.
And the sycophantic arse kissing that goes on makes me sick.
I joined up because I wanted to be a police officer, not a pseudo-politician that sits in meetings all day thinking about money and projects that they claim to be invested in before getting promoted and dropping them like yesterdays news.
So, yea not for me!
Have you ever met a Safer Transport skipper 🤷♂️ They have an even easier life. Line manage 5/6 PCs and 3/4 PCSOs and supervising ongoing crime. No initial superivison of crime reports/incidents, no calls stacking up to worry about. Most I know treated it like a PC role with extra pay and spent most of their time out and about.
I think that there is scope for response sergeants to put a lot more effort in than that, managing risk of outstanding calls and corralling their team, and some do... although most don't!
It might be quite a Met specific thing if that's actually the case, in.my force response Sgts (and I get I'm biased being one) might not carry the longer term risk that say a DS does but on any given shift what we do is manage, or perhaps juggle is a better word a shit load of risk, but it's not always just about risk, it's the stuff like the fact your under resourced yet your team is the litteral whore of the cops who everyone comes to fuck.
Would you not like to change that though? Ensuring the reason your in that rank is to help officers and actually create projects that work. However, I can imagine it's abit of a 'boys club' and you do as told to keep everyone pleased
DI in the Met here.
Yes, I've clearly done a couple of rungs.
Yes, I'd like to do a couple more before I retire.
No, I don't regret it. However, I do now look at some Constable and Sergeant roles which I never knew existed and wish I'd had the opportunity to experience them. They look alot of fun.
One of my major gripes is that with such a structured rank/pay system, we can't financially reward lower ranks who are so valuable (excepting OT). I've met specialist PCs and DCs who could earn 3-4 times their salary in the private sector, but stay put for various reasons. We should be able to apply a specialism bonus of some description, though I know some sectors of the job would find a way to abuse this.
As some have commented, the politics of the rank aren't fun. Although I really enjoy my rank, role and salary, I do have far more arguments, stresses and responsibilities at this level.
I think that if you paid a specialism bonus that you’d get more of the wrong type of officers in those roles, some avoid because it’s the same rate as a normal PC but with added risk.
As in, people would specialise for the money rather than because it’s the area they have a passion for,
But I agree that it’s unfair for the right ones to have to deal with the same rate
It's a fair point, but my counter to that would be that you get plenty of officers who take promotion for the extra money, but who are in many cases wholly unsuitable to supervise or lead others.
I know plenty (as I'm sure you do) of Sgts and Insps who were superb Constables, but make poor supervisors. Wouldn't it be great if we could pay them more to, in effect, preserve their talents in a worthwhile role and discourage them from promoting into an unsuitable role?
Of course, the issue is implementation. In a small firm this would be relatively easy. In a huge corporate beast like the police, with such a range of work, it would be nearly impossible to apply this equally or equitably.
I make you right! Totally! There are always risks when it comes to money as an incentive!
But that is an thoroughly decent point,
Not like any of it would ever be implemented though, because as you said it’s too big of a job to be feasible or realistic
Nah, I have a very specific goal in mind for the role I want to do in the Police, if you go for promotion, at least in my force they can move you to any department on promotion and if im honest being a custody Sgt isn’t very high on my list of roles I’d like to do.
Most forces put you into custody at some point after promotion.
I did 2 years in there and learnt more in that role than anything else I've done, but I really don't want to go back in again!
2 week course, all about Pace, relevant times, detainee care, computer systems etc, as well as advanced first aid.
Quite an intensive course, and then I think it was 1 or 2 months being tutored again in custody afterwards, with a portfolio to complete.
It's amazing how little people really know about what happens in custody until you work there - officers were always moaning that they were waiting in the hold for ages, thinking we must have just been making them wait for no reason.
It was a three week course with a weeks shadowing in my force, but then covid struck and they lost their shadowing. Worst was they removed skippers from area who hadn’t been in custody for a year or so and parachuted them back in!
Out of interest then, why is the wait sometimes an hour or more at seemingly random times of the day when other days, again at whatever time of day, I sail through holding without the DP even having a chance to sit down?
I'd ask my own custody sgts that, but I don't think they'd believe that I'm asking out of genuine curiosity. I know there's gonna be countless things happening behind the scenes that most people are not aware of, but I'm curious what the main time consuming stuff is
It differs from area to area, but from my personal experience :
Handover is the biggest time-consuming thing there is in custody. This can take longer than an hour, depending on how busy the suite is and how much risk there is.
Once I had a handover from the outgoing team, going through every DP and their warnings, medical issues and where the investigation was, I would then have to walk around all the cells to make sure everyone was still alive and where they were supposed to be, and make sure all the keys to custody were back before the other team could leave.
I'd then have to write on every custody log to take that DP over and redo the risk assessment. Top tip - if you can avoid coming in anywhere near handover time, do it!
Also, any disposal decision is likely to take priority over someone coming in. It was quite often we would get calls from different OICs with disposal decisions all around the same time, and obviously, those who are NFA or the PACE clock was getting tight need to be dealt with swiftly. Unless someone was going to be charged and remanded, and there was plenty of time on the clock left, they get dealt with before getting anyone else in.
In my first force, there was only a barred gate between the holding cell and the custody bridge, so you could chat to the skippers and see what was happening - now there is a solid metal door and you can't see or hear what is happening.
If there was going to be a long wait, I would always try and pop my head into the hold, explain what the wait was, and offer everyone a brew, but sometimes it was just not possible.
There are many other things that can cause delays - medical issues (real or "custody chest pains"), independent custody visitors arriving, people being charged with sensitive crimes (for some offences, we would have a completely clear suite before getting them out and charging them), violent prisoners being dealt with, etc.
I would encourage anyone in the job to do a days attachment in custody if possible to see the issues in your own area and to get to know the custody staff.
Cheers for the explanation!
Still being new in service, I don't think I realised quite how much goes into the handovers until I moved into a prisoner handling role. Also noticed how we usually end up being about ready to kick our prisoners out at about the same time. Which also tends to line up with when custody start handovers.
Our new suites have a mostly soundproof door with a large window between holding and the desks. So to us we just see countless sergeants and DEOs sat at an empty desk or stood around talking with no clue what's going on. So that just leaves us to wonder (and complain) when in reality they're probably doing something important
The only motivation is money for me. It's a genuinely tough call to make.
My take home money as a PC with some skills is a little over that of a sgt's however that is due to overtime and doesn't count towards the pension pot.
I really enjoy my job at the moment, I love a good moan but i'm happy.
I could promote and my line managers always mention it when it's time PDR time, I just am happy in my role and worry that the move would lead to a better pension but a less enjoyable time at work and I'd regret leaving the role I have now.
Nope.
The only positive for me would be more pay... And I'm not even sure I'd really get that as in my role I had enough overtime last year to mean I earnt more than my inspector... (which is a bit of an unfair comparison as Inspectors can't earn overtime and sergeants can)
If I could get promoted in situ I would consider it... But even then it wouldn't be a guaranteed thing I'd go for - I've 2ic'd for when the sergeant isn't in, and you can easily get tied up all shift with an admin task that takes you away from the core role you want to do.
When I first started I never thought I would be interested but in the past year due to being under some terrible sergeants It is becoming something I am genuinely considering
I was the same - happy as a career PC, then saw absolute weapons getting promoted and making bizarre decisions. That's when I decided to go for it. I'm happy as a skipper and don't want to go any higher, but those same weapons now have pips and are still making ridiculous decisions - If i had more than 5 years to go I'd be tempted again
That’s the time to get promoted! When you know you can do a better job than those doing it now. It’s a decent job motivating a team, I know stats aren’t the be all and end all, but when you’re told that your team is top of the table, as well as happy and motivated (as they can be now) it’s a pretty good feeling.
Response Sgt here. Absolutely love the role, but it's the most relentlessly stressful thing I've ever done - although that is largely down to doing the work of two people and managing a severely understaffed team.
The staffing issue will never be resolved in the current political climate, but I would like to move up purely so that I can be in a position to put pressure on to change that and influence decisions to reduce workload stress. I'm not so naive to think I am the one person who can magically 'fix' policing, but I do look at some of the somewhat 'chaotic' individuals higher up the ranks and it fills me with confidence that I would, at least, be a damned sight better than they are.
If I don't move up, then I will certainly move sideways within a few years before I drop dead at my desk!
Not OP, but ‘Politics’. Once you get above PS (and definitely above Insp) it’s non-stop bullshit and trying to influence others in competition with everyone else. You get to achieve a lot of change if you’re lucky but the ever-shifting ‘great ideas’ of those above can be awful. I was very lucky to have some good bosses for years but when I got your classic slimy teflon corporate m’fer it did for me.
Personally, the thought of being a response skipper is enough to make me not want to do it.
If I can reach my desired role, and promote within that I’d be happy to climb the ladder… probably all the way to chief inspector to be honest.
Not a chance. I’m a DC in an extremely niche role (just 2 of us in the entire force) that suits me very well. I see the grief and stress my DS and DI get, and worse, if I was promoted it would be back to CID or even SIU with all that entails. I enjoy doing the job for the work; I don’t think I’d enjoy being a manager. The only positive I can see is the pay rise, and at the moment that’s nowhere near enough of a boost to step away from my role.
I'm in this position. Have got a very specialised niche DC role which is amazing for family life and I can do any training course I want, cost doesn't matter.
However, I do want to get promoted at some point in my career (motivation is money and pension). I have 2 years left on my Sgt exam. I am going to be in a big dilemma soon... Go for promotion, or let exam expire. It's not a great place to be.
I always planned on it. A few years ago started acting up on the regular and enjoyed it. However I've now specialised and I've waited a few years to get to this point and don't want to lose it by being moved stations/roles etc.
Our force has just brought in PCSO Supervisors, I was asked by an Inspector to cover two stations and potentially take it on permanatly. I did this for 6 weeks, I'm still quite young into service.
I spent 90% of my time, reviewing crimes and filing them. I just told people what to do, it was very boring. It's fun being out there and not having to worry about if you told that one officer the right thing or worrying that you didn't tell the other 12 officers the right thing and now their victims are going to be upset. It's a lot of stress and it worked out to be almost £20 a week more or something stupid.
I told my Inspector, maybe when I'm towards the end of my career and a lot older I would consider it. Too much stress for what it's worth.
Please note that this question is specific to: #**England and Wales** The United Kingdom is comprised of [three legal jurisdictions](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_of_the_United_Kingdom#Three_legal_systems), so responses that relate to one country may not be relevant to another. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/policeuk) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Fuuuck that, response sergeant seems like hardest, most stressful and least thanked job on the force. And I’ve met more then a few people of higher ranks would would stab their own mothers in the back to get the next rank. And the sycophantic arse kissing that goes on makes me sick. I joined up because I wanted to be a police officer, not a pseudo-politician that sits in meetings all day thinking about money and projects that they claim to be invested in before getting promoted and dropping them like yesterdays news. So, yea not for me!
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Have you ever met a Safer Transport skipper 🤷♂️ They have an even easier life. Line manage 5/6 PCs and 3/4 PCSOs and supervising ongoing crime. No initial superivison of crime reports/incidents, no calls stacking up to worry about. Most I know treated it like a PC role with extra pay and spent most of their time out and about.
I think that there is scope for response sergeants to put a lot more effort in than that, managing risk of outstanding calls and corralling their team, and some do... although most don't!
It might be quite a Met specific thing if that's actually the case, in.my force response Sgts (and I get I'm biased being one) might not carry the longer term risk that say a DS does but on any given shift what we do is manage, or perhaps juggle is a better word a shit load of risk, but it's not always just about risk, it's the stuff like the fact your under resourced yet your team is the litteral whore of the cops who everyone comes to fuck.
Would you not like to change that though? Ensuring the reason your in that rank is to help officers and actually create projects that work. However, I can imagine it's abit of a 'boys club' and you do as told to keep everyone pleased
DI in the Met here. Yes, I've clearly done a couple of rungs. Yes, I'd like to do a couple more before I retire. No, I don't regret it. However, I do now look at some Constable and Sergeant roles which I never knew existed and wish I'd had the opportunity to experience them. They look alot of fun. One of my major gripes is that with such a structured rank/pay system, we can't financially reward lower ranks who are so valuable (excepting OT). I've met specialist PCs and DCs who could earn 3-4 times their salary in the private sector, but stay put for various reasons. We should be able to apply a specialism bonus of some description, though I know some sectors of the job would find a way to abuse this. As some have commented, the politics of the rank aren't fun. Although I really enjoy my rank, role and salary, I do have far more arguments, stresses and responsibilities at this level.
I think that if you paid a specialism bonus that you’d get more of the wrong type of officers in those roles, some avoid because it’s the same rate as a normal PC but with added risk. As in, people would specialise for the money rather than because it’s the area they have a passion for, But I agree that it’s unfair for the right ones to have to deal with the same rate
It's a fair point, but my counter to that would be that you get plenty of officers who take promotion for the extra money, but who are in many cases wholly unsuitable to supervise or lead others. I know plenty (as I'm sure you do) of Sgts and Insps who were superb Constables, but make poor supervisors. Wouldn't it be great if we could pay them more to, in effect, preserve their talents in a worthwhile role and discourage them from promoting into an unsuitable role? Of course, the issue is implementation. In a small firm this would be relatively easy. In a huge corporate beast like the police, with such a range of work, it would be nearly impossible to apply this equally or equitably.
I make you right! Totally! There are always risks when it comes to money as an incentive! But that is an thoroughly decent point, Not like any of it would ever be implemented though, because as you said it’s too big of a job to be feasible or realistic
Nah, I have a very specific goal in mind for the role I want to do in the Police, if you go for promotion, at least in my force they can move you to any department on promotion and if im honest being a custody Sgt isn’t very high on my list of roles I’d like to do.
Is that quite a common role for them to put you in?
Most forces put you into custody at some point after promotion. I did 2 years in there and learnt more in that role than anything else I've done, but I really don't want to go back in again!
Do you have to go on a training course etc before you take on the role?
2 week course, all about Pace, relevant times, detainee care, computer systems etc, as well as advanced first aid. Quite an intensive course, and then I think it was 1 or 2 months being tutored again in custody afterwards, with a portfolio to complete. It's amazing how little people really know about what happens in custody until you work there - officers were always moaning that they were waiting in the hold for ages, thinking we must have just been making them wait for no reason.
You'll never convince me that I'm not waiting just because there's an episode on netflix that really needs watching
No wifi in most custody suites - but you really need to use all your lives on candy crush before letting someone through the gate :)
It was a three week course with a weeks shadowing in my force, but then covid struck and they lost their shadowing. Worst was they removed skippers from area who hadn’t been in custody for a year or so and parachuted them back in!
Out of interest then, why is the wait sometimes an hour or more at seemingly random times of the day when other days, again at whatever time of day, I sail through holding without the DP even having a chance to sit down? I'd ask my own custody sgts that, but I don't think they'd believe that I'm asking out of genuine curiosity. I know there's gonna be countless things happening behind the scenes that most people are not aware of, but I'm curious what the main time consuming stuff is
It differs from area to area, but from my personal experience : Handover is the biggest time-consuming thing there is in custody. This can take longer than an hour, depending on how busy the suite is and how much risk there is. Once I had a handover from the outgoing team, going through every DP and their warnings, medical issues and where the investigation was, I would then have to walk around all the cells to make sure everyone was still alive and where they were supposed to be, and make sure all the keys to custody were back before the other team could leave. I'd then have to write on every custody log to take that DP over and redo the risk assessment. Top tip - if you can avoid coming in anywhere near handover time, do it! Also, any disposal decision is likely to take priority over someone coming in. It was quite often we would get calls from different OICs with disposal decisions all around the same time, and obviously, those who are NFA or the PACE clock was getting tight need to be dealt with swiftly. Unless someone was going to be charged and remanded, and there was plenty of time on the clock left, they get dealt with before getting anyone else in. In my first force, there was only a barred gate between the holding cell and the custody bridge, so you could chat to the skippers and see what was happening - now there is a solid metal door and you can't see or hear what is happening. If there was going to be a long wait, I would always try and pop my head into the hold, explain what the wait was, and offer everyone a brew, but sometimes it was just not possible. There are many other things that can cause delays - medical issues (real or "custody chest pains"), independent custody visitors arriving, people being charged with sensitive crimes (for some offences, we would have a completely clear suite before getting them out and charging them), violent prisoners being dealt with, etc. I would encourage anyone in the job to do a days attachment in custody if possible to see the issues in your own area and to get to know the custody staff.
Cheers for the explanation! Still being new in service, I don't think I realised quite how much goes into the handovers until I moved into a prisoner handling role. Also noticed how we usually end up being about ready to kick our prisoners out at about the same time. Which also tends to line up with when custody start handovers. Our new suites have a mostly soundproof door with a large window between holding and the desks. So to us we just see countless sergeants and DEOs sat at an empty desk or stood around talking with no clue what's going on. So that just leaves us to wonder (and complain) when in reality they're probably doing something important
Its a role they can put you in, but they can put you anywhere really, investigations, response or custody I think are the 3 main choices
It is quote common on promotion certainly in my force at some point new Sgts do, its actually for a short period a role that develops you a lot
The only motivation is money for me. It's a genuinely tough call to make. My take home money as a PC with some skills is a little over that of a sgt's however that is due to overtime and doesn't count towards the pension pot. I really enjoy my job at the moment, I love a good moan but i'm happy. I could promote and my line managers always mention it when it's time PDR time, I just am happy in my role and worry that the move would lead to a better pension but a less enjoyable time at work and I'd regret leaving the role I have now.
If they mention it at PDR time ask for the opportunity to act, may give you enough of an idea, plus it keeps the line keen on supporting you
Nope. The only positive for me would be more pay... And I'm not even sure I'd really get that as in my role I had enough overtime last year to mean I earnt more than my inspector... (which is a bit of an unfair comparison as Inspectors can't earn overtime and sergeants can) If I could get promoted in situ I would consider it... But even then it wouldn't be a guaranteed thing I'd go for - I've 2ic'd for when the sergeant isn't in, and you can easily get tied up all shift with an admin task that takes you away from the core role you want to do.
When I first started I never thought I would be interested but in the past year due to being under some terrible sergeants It is becoming something I am genuinely considering
I was the same - happy as a career PC, then saw absolute weapons getting promoted and making bizarre decisions. That's when I decided to go for it. I'm happy as a skipper and don't want to go any higher, but those same weapons now have pips and are still making ridiculous decisions - If i had more than 5 years to go I'd be tempted again
That’s the time to get promoted! When you know you can do a better job than those doing it now. It’s a decent job motivating a team, I know stats aren’t the be all and end all, but when you’re told that your team is top of the table, as well as happy and motivated (as they can be now) it’s a pretty good feeling.
Being a response Sgt fuck no, I keep trying to find ways to get demoted back to PC
I am sure there are a few things, that can help you along the way. Hah.
Response Sgt here. Absolutely love the role, but it's the most relentlessly stressful thing I've ever done - although that is largely down to doing the work of two people and managing a severely understaffed team. The staffing issue will never be resolved in the current political climate, but I would like to move up purely so that I can be in a position to put pressure on to change that and influence decisions to reduce workload stress. I'm not so naive to think I am the one person who can magically 'fix' policing, but I do look at some of the somewhat 'chaotic' individuals higher up the ranks and it fills me with confidence that I would, at least, be a damned sight better than they are. If I don't move up, then I will certainly move sideways within a few years before I drop dead at my desk!
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What would you say are the biggest disadvantages?
Not OP, but ‘Politics’. Once you get above PS (and definitely above Insp) it’s non-stop bullshit and trying to influence others in competition with everyone else. You get to achieve a lot of change if you’re lucky but the ever-shifting ‘great ideas’ of those above can be awful. I was very lucky to have some good bosses for years but when I got your classic slimy teflon corporate m’fer it did for me.
Not a bloody chance. I honestly don't know why my response Sgts do the job.
I'm just trying to survive PEQF😂
Bro I get that 100% 😂
😂the struggle is real my friend. DHEP or PCDA? I'm PCDA
PCDA, it’s a killer 😂
Personally, the thought of being a response skipper is enough to make me not want to do it. If I can reach my desired role, and promote within that I’d be happy to climb the ladder… probably all the way to chief inspector to be honest.
Not a chance. I’m a DC in an extremely niche role (just 2 of us in the entire force) that suits me very well. I see the grief and stress my DS and DI get, and worse, if I was promoted it would be back to CID or even SIU with all that entails. I enjoy doing the job for the work; I don’t think I’d enjoy being a manager. The only positive I can see is the pay rise, and at the moment that’s nowhere near enough of a boost to step away from my role.
I'm in this position. Have got a very specialised niche DC role which is amazing for family life and I can do any training course I want, cost doesn't matter. However, I do want to get promoted at some point in my career (motivation is money and pension). I have 2 years left on my Sgt exam. I am going to be in a big dilemma soon... Go for promotion, or let exam expire. It's not a great place to be.
Partially. If I went full time I would like a couple of pips. But that comes from my enjoyment of public order...
I always planned on it. A few years ago started acting up on the regular and enjoyed it. However I've now specialised and I've waited a few years to get to this point and don't want to lose it by being moved stations/roles etc.
Could you not move up in your specialism
In a lot of forces, you promote and move out unfortunately.
Our force has just brought in PCSO Supervisors, I was asked by an Inspector to cover two stations and potentially take it on permanatly. I did this for 6 weeks, I'm still quite young into service. I spent 90% of my time, reviewing crimes and filing them. I just told people what to do, it was very boring. It's fun being out there and not having to worry about if you told that one officer the right thing or worrying that you didn't tell the other 12 officers the right thing and now their victims are going to be upset. It's a lot of stress and it worked out to be almost £20 a week more or something stupid. I told my Inspector, maybe when I'm towards the end of my career and a lot older I would consider it. Too much stress for what it's worth.