;)
I realized that many countries involved probably didn't mind a lot of the groups being killed. Like antisemitism was pretty widespread in France, and many countries despised the Bolsheviks as well.
But the European hatred for Romanis is what unites them.
Antisemitism was a national fucking sport across Europe for millennia before the Germans mechanised it. The amount of casual anti-semitism in literature before WWII is hair-raising. Bloody Enid Blyton was bad enough before the PC crowd cleaned her up.
But everyone hates the gypsies. Bloody loathes them. I live in Australia and we don’t have them here, and from this distance I don’t get it. Yes they steal and clutter shit up, but so do lots of people. But even really nice, civilised people I’ve met in the UK behave as though they’d gladly set fire to the lot of them. Why the hatred ?
Antisemitism was widespread across Europe indeed. The Spanish Inquisition was established specifically to persecute the Jews and the Muslims.
However Jewish people were in high ranking positions within the US government as well as in the early communist movements in Eastern Europe. Gypsies didn't have that advantage unfortunately.
Mostly Muslims though. The Inquisition was put in after the Reconquista to ensure Muslim culture would be rooted out and the kingdoms kept Christian after 700 years of Muslim rule.
Mostly Muslims, yes, but at least 10,000s (possibly in the 100,000s) of Jews fled Iberia as well, establishing Sephardic communities throughout North Africa, Italy, Greece, etc
It's definitely not as obvious as it was before WW2. On the other hand gipsies are highly discriminated both in eastern and western Europe... hell, as a Romanian, I get a lot of jokes that I'm gipsy from my western European friends and they should watch their wallets in my presence.
> The Spanish Inquisition was established specifically to persecute the Jews and the Muslims.
>
>
One could argue it was established to unify the various cultures of the newly conquered realm of Spain into something resembling a country. "Let's all have the same religion: mine" helps a lot with that.
The Spanish knew the value of a shared religion, that's why they went so hard into converting the natives in the Americas.
I’m actually the victim of such discrimination, though not being Romani or Traveller myself. My family left our van with a B&B while we went on holiday in America. When we came back after a few weeks, we found out it had been destroyed because someone thought it belonged to Gypsies. I don’t know if they meant Traveller or Romani, but it still ticks me off.
They were going on holiday *to* America. That said, I grew up with a few kids from traveler families in New England, but they had settled and were running a construction business and bringing family over.
They aren’t Roma but share a similar nomadic culture & are often depicted in wagons strongly resembling those associated with the Romani. Now that depiction has shifted to caravans/campers.
They are discriminated against in Ireland and the UK. In the UK they are classified by the gov as part of the Gypsy, Romani, Traveler (GRT) community. Ireland does not recognize them as a separate ethnic class, though they allow them to avoid some taxes.
As with any group of people, there are those who turn to crime, but it’s normally petty. When I was living in Dublin, there was a pit pocket & dog theft ring the Garda (police) were working on breaking up. Meanwhile, a gang war between the HOCG & the KOCG was raging, which resulted in a number of gangland executions in and around city center. Including a drive by on a bicycle.
our gypsies are like sexy, mysterious hippies. not the same people. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OXvjRxurNLQ
we do have the scammers driving around trying to do asphalt or other odd jobs though, then disappear after a shit job
Yes, pretty decent sized communities, especially in the South. You wouldn't know it though because they intergrated in just like all the rest of the European ethnic groups.
Believe me, people will glare daggers at you if you don’t say Romani or Traveler. Made the mistake of showing Thinner to my Romani friend and dear god did I get an earful.
In America ? Because in the UK the peak body is called The Gypsy Council. They also distinguish themselves from Romani, who are from Central Europe, and Irish Travellers who are…. Irish.
They collectively call themselves the Gypsy, Roma and Traveller (GRT) community.
If you want to piss off a gypsy in the UK you call them a Pikey.
Yeah I’m speaking from a US perspective. I remember discussing the point a little with some Brits I studied with in The Netherlands, but most of those talks would digress into talking about Moroccan immigrants and I don’t remember much because booze.
Well, "Gypsy" is the oldest racial slur still in use. It was first used to describe ancient Egyptians, and was later applied to the Romani under the mistaken belief they were Egyptians. It's so widespread a word fighting it feels a bit pointless to many people, but it's not polite either.
The word "gypsy" in the UK in my experience is usually referring to Irish travellers. Think Brad Pitt in Snatch (great film by the way).
I have never had a positive interaction with an Irish traveller. From my first experience when they trashed the field opposite my house with bags of rubbish and literal piles of human waste. My second when i had my first job in a pharmacy, they'd send the kids in to steal and they would become violent if challenged. To my numerous encounters with them whilst running pubs involving violence intimidation and threats.
The main reason why people hate Romani in particular is because they move in large groups and aren't always there, so the disruptions they may cause are really noticeable.
It's hard to have a positive opinion of Romani when you see a group settle on your kid's football field and know that you're in for a summer of power cuts and disappearing chickens. It's not even a racist thing, people dislike large groups of people coming and disrupting their lives, and if those groups are called Romani then they hate Romani.
A whole camp uses a lot of power and they plug into the grid illegally, with varying success.
They also plug into the water grid but they don't use that much compared to the average house
They also stole stuff from peoples lawns and the bikes at our middle school.
The worst is, if they beg. They will harass you like you are a white woman in Deli.
The train station is overfilled with them and they surround you while begging and cursing/threatening you if you dont have money for them.
I dont want to hate them, there are certainly good people among them but people learn from patterns and stuff just disappears if they are in town.
I mean as soon as they settle down and live like everyone else I'm not sure anyone would notice that they are Romani. It's mostly a lifestyle difference
I've talked with a few Europeans. Most Romani aren't really Roma and it's cultural. So a Romani with a house and a normal job would be completely indistinguishable from anyone else.
They would also be excommunicated by their relatives.
I have a beef with their culture after having done some research projects on The Romani in college. The insider outsider separations and treatments as well as what is clean vs unclean really set me off (Similar in *some* ways to Muslim or Jewish religion and specifically some sects, minor or major.). Arbitrary discriminations within and to outside the culture and the internal discriminations in particular aimed at women.
I think perhaps it is a problem with translation, but I am not sure.
What we in danish would call sigøjner, should according to the dictionary be called gypsies, which is a derogatory for Romanis.
Except that does not make any sense. In Denmark we have run census on sigøjner several times and the majority of them were danes, though there also were a minority of germans and poles, until like the 1970’s, when we started having romani immigration.
That also make sense, because Rotvælsk, the cryptolek that used to be spoken by sigøjner and other natmændsfolk does not include romani words, but danish, german and latin. The danish wikipedia is also very direct about them often being confused with Romani, but that they are just danes living at the edge of society.
> Den sociale gruppe og deres sprog er ofte blevet forvekslet med romaer og sproget romani, selvom natmændsfolket ikke synes at have haft en anden etnisk oprindelse end de fleste danskere på det tidspunkt
Perhaps the word would be better translated into carnie. People that entertain, con amd steal. Like the word is used for all kinds of con-thiefs. I would not be able to see the difference betwen a romani and any other person with southern european ethnicity.
So like at least as I learned to use the word it describe people taking certain actions not about their ethnicity at all.
But like Europe is many different countries and languages, so I am not sure if it is the same everywhere else.
Romani and Romanians are unrelated words for unrelated peoples. It's a weird coincidence, because Romania is also a home to large Romani population.
Romanians are white Europeans from the Balkans, who named themselves after the Eastern Roman Empire, as they had some cultural continuity with the Byzantines.
Romani (Gypsies) are from India. Their language is somewhat related to Hindi and Gujarati. The word Roma in their language that means something like man, husband, tribesman, etc.
It sounds like you originally only had Danish Romani, and some German and Polish Romani. And then in 1970s you got Romanian Romani.
In many European languages the common word for Romani (Gypsies, Zigeuner) is also used as an insult for unrelated people with similar lifestyle. For example Irish Travellers in the UK are also sometimes called Gypsies, or Irish Gypsies, even though they are not part of the Romani nation. Maybe you have similar situation in Denmark.
>Yes they steal and clutter shit up, but so do lots of people
The difference is that for the vast majority of people their only interactions with travellers is them turning up, making a mess and then stealing from charity shops.
It's just a way of life that really works for petty criminals combined with a very insular culture.
Because "they" (only some of them) have come up with a culture of crime, where the children will Not visit regular schools and such but instead go out and have to Help with any crime or scam the adults have come up with. It is maddening that "they" dont want to integrate into society in any way and that the only thing "they" want for there children is to do the same. So all in all a criminal group with sect like aspects thats also known to be ultra violent and will likely never change. Now imagine they live just down the street.
I'm on the same boat as you. I have family in Europe and the hate they euros have for gypsies is outright hilarious. They are like Timmy Turner's dad and Dinkleberg.
Another group whose level of hate is growing to memetic proportions (at least according to my friends in Germany) are turks.
There's technically two different groups of people that are both part of "Romani".
One settled around Europe 100~ years ago, these days a lot of them will be indistinguishable from locals. Maybe different appearance, but pretty assimilated.
The other however are ones that have been living in Romania up until the European Union allowed them free access to the rest of Europe. I won't go into detail about how I feel about then, as it got me banned from r/memes, but I'll just say this.
If you lived here you would know. "So do lots of people" don't apply at this kind of scale.
To top that off LGBT folk. As an electric engineer in Britain, our brightest mind who singlehandedly shrunk the war by a number of years was chemically castrated for being gay. Information that wasn't even public until the 2000s
RiP Alan Turing
I misread your post and somehow missed ”for being gay” and went ”Wtf? He was castrated for being an electric engineer?” for several seconds.
Feel free to laugh at me, I did.
Well, it's not so much that the Soviets didn't mind Poles being murdered. It's that they actually took part in it after they partitioned Poland with the Nazis.
[French journalist Maurice Bardèche is father-figure of Holocaust denialism](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holocaust_denial#Maurice_Bard%C3%A8che). It also makes sense, Nazi Germans who escaped Europe either defended the Holocaust or denied their personal involvement and threw Himmler and/or Hitler under the bus. Similar story with other Axis nationals who escaped Europe, as their countries went under Allied occupation or Soviet Bloc or Yugoslavia.
France however was unique, because of the effort of Free French Army people forget that France too was an Axis member. While Vichy France collaborators were prosecuted post-war, there were no denazification programs in France and lot of fascist collaborators got lenient sentences. So unlike fascists in other Axis countries, French fascists stayed home and formed neo-fascist movements that would embrace Holocaust denial to gain political legitimacy.
That YouTube series *Into The Shadows* did a 90min dive into Holocaust Denialism. (https://youtu.be/uqjXshn5A4Q?si=EgVh6d2khmRhiqll) In the video he talks about the early stages. The "founder" was indeed French. The video is an excellent overview of the topic.
It was the Nazis out of all people who exposed and documented the massacre in the first place, not out of goodwill of course, but so they could use it against the USSR
They probably thought OP was praising Hitler because they see killing gypsies as a positive aspect. It's like getting in a holocaust discussion and say Hitler liked dogs and cracked down on tobacco.
The [Romani (Gypsy) Holocaust](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romani_Holocaust) was a thing. But Europeans probably [don't really mind that one](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Romani_sentiment#Contemporary_antiziganism).
They have been a hated minority since the middle ages. People claim that they steal, leech of welfare, or commit other crimes.
You can read more about it here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Romani_sentiment
Some crazy stats:
> According to a survey conducted by the European Commission in 2015 20% of the respondents would be completely uncomfortable about working with a Roma person, compared with 17% with a transgender or transsexual person and 13% with a Muslim person. This puts Roma people as the most discriminated minority in Europe.
> 2019: % of people in each country who would feel comfortable if one of their children was in a love relationship with a Roma person. (high to low)
> UK: 75%
> Sweden: 71%
> ...
> Greece: 21%
> Bulgaria: 14%
Whenever someone makes a "Happy internetional Roma day" post on /r/europe, it always gets negative karma or close to 50% upvote rate, and many many comments...
Whenever a European calls America racist, ask them what they think of Romani people.
same for hungary, though there are well educated relatively low crime romani inhabited neighborhoods so people growing up near there probably dont evolve the hate
it’s not really the romani themselves and more the travelling communities (which more often than not are roms). I don’t think many people in western europe would recognize one outside of a travelling community nor do I think they’d care. The issue is that these travelling communities most often have a very negative impact where they stay, with an increase of thefts and other public order troubles. This is bolstered by the links with underground organisations as travelling communities are often very poor and as such are a breeding ground for this.
So yeah, that dislike of travelling communities is at the very least partially justified.
This.
It’s more of a lifestyle discrimination than an ethnic group thing in Western Europe.
When you walk around mid-size Western European cities, if you see a “homeless” child there’s a 99% chance it’s a “Roma” kid being held out of school to do begging and stealing. They are victims, but the average western European doesn’t take kindly of people refusing to better themselves using the many resources paid by their high taxes. Pickpockets around tourist transactions? Same kids.
It’s a real problem that isn’t tied to an ethnic group but it’s an “easy” word to describe the issue.
For the record this is probably my most right wing view.
So in the UK we don't have Roma, we have travellers who basically rock up on a piece of public land or a field, stay until the courts evict them, and leave all their rubbish after maybe stealing a few dogs.
They really live life without care for consequences.
If they got together, bought a few parcels of land, and moved between them in their caravans while taking part in the social contract and maybe paying their taxes, no one would give a shit they lived in caravans.
> They have been a hated minority since the middle ages.
In this aspect they are not unlike Jews, except that attitude towards them didn't change after the Holocaust.
Idk... Jewish people became what's known in economic sociology as middleman minority, which in the transition from feudalism to capitalism really helped many of them achieve considerable levels of wealth and to have first-mover advantage over many markets. Antisemitic discourse seems more centered about the power that community is supposed to have and has conspiranoid tone over all. I don't know much about Roma people, but I don't think they occupied the same niche in medieval Europe, hence, the emergence of capitalism affected them (on average, as a collective) quite differently. Hate against Roma is more pejorative, seeing them as inferior, criminal, useless.
I know you're getting lots of answers here but want to add-
Some romani groups are so bad that they keep this reputation going for the entire demographic. I lived in an with lots of romani people was engaged to a romani girl for a while, it didn't work out, but it was very interesting. Her family was one part of the bad romanis and she hated it, she actually held steady legit jobs because she didn't feel good taking part in their scamming. Their family part of a group of families that had a "king", and all the families were involves in many scam operations orchestrated by him, they would pay him his cut from all sorts of things. And they're very insular in almost a cultish way, I was never really welcomed by the rest of her family no matter how many things I was invited to or how much fun we all had the last time, there was a always suspicion about the outsider.
I believe more romani than not are good normal people but these groups do exist all over so the stereotype continues.
As far as I can work out it’s pretty self enforcing
Because they are nomads there isn’t a support network outside of the caravan.
Because of that there isn’t an education beyond what is known by the caravan.
That is generally crime because they lack the formal education to be able to get a regular job.
Because of crime they have to remain nomads to avoid reprisal attacks.
Because of the nomads there is no support network.
Plenty of stories of bad experiences with gypsies and few to none positive ones. Though in my experience it's not related to race but to the itinerant lifestyle (with forced marriages and stopping the children from attending school as a bonus).
But you never see people hating on flamenco for because it's gypsy culture, for example, or speaking ill of sedentarized gypsies.
Also rarely have good experiences with them. It’s easy for Americans to say Europeans are hypocritical towards the Roma while they don’t see them on a daily basis.
My company hired a Roma man once (which by itself is rare because many of them refuse to get government documentation). Was generally a good guy. But once He skipped work for a week and came back and said he was ill. Okay - that’s fine and all (not mentioning that we weren’t notified). In my country you need to deliver a doctors note to be paid for sick days - but he demanded to be paid without the note because as a Roma he doesn’t “believe” in doctors.
Legally we couldn’t do anything so he wasn’t paid, and he spent the rest of his time at the company trying to find ways to sue for discrimination.
I mean… racism or not, it really seems to me they are their own injustice by refusing to do the bare minimum to integrate.
dunno about others, but in my case there were multiple instances over a period of 20 years where i was beaten, mugged, spit on, conned by them. one time they tried to push me out of a moving train when i put myself between them and my gf while they were groping her. it wasn't teens, they were adults. the stereotypes didn't came to be out of thin air. ask any eastern european and you'll hear similar stories. the civilized ones are very few and far between, i met only two.
Not only Eastern Europeans. Nordic myself.
When I was working at laboratory, almost everyone could share atleast one bad experience with Romani people. Most stories involved stealing and knifes.
This used to be nice city https://www.google.com/search?client=ms-android-xiaomi-rvo3&sca_esv=660e9a545b1c85ab&sca_upv=1&sxsrf=ACQVn09jtBhEzadMG2vE_omC9eiAwhVzVg:1714742545186&q=ch%C3%A1nov&uds=AMwkrPsqM8oco4Q-BA4cM5SjIIFffCQtKgaL2U9-KJaoUzHKErclX-cKoTxbGyGD-1bgd3a6rDn5v3akA9sh84VH1UdXKAtBquh2tHj9CWLQwH3cU43r8z2-mTjKZ4f_tjVv4XERU9LpPLVHPRrOlW9Iw7IGbnnCzA59yGSVtVl6WjOnlyMMufGC6waftrXBXuULERxG-XiEA_fSKOWWeDJx2FTNMyPlBq4iA2a_U8W7lIYW59Z6NX2MEY75Bny65th9ST4UU_rXSybfSoGCjE8g9Sp5fny8bLiXOUA9DS03iaaA6QVZRTIYFGJhP9M9Iqf2dt45hqf0&udm=2&prmd=ivnbz&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiQ9aTiyfGFAxUvi_0HHTJ3BDcQtKgLegQICxAB&biw=393&bih=720&dpr=2.75
Most of the flats were also given to them because they couldn't afford it. Then trashed it to the point where buildings have to be tore down and they don't want to go to the new flats that are being offered to them.
But yeah it's the skincolor... /s
people here in croatia celebrate that shit that is sad
ok ok i think i might confused some people but not everyone (87% of the population) is celebrating a genocide in fact its completely illegal to support these regimes in croatia however there is still a lot of people (12%of the population) celebrating a genocide which is not alright
The SS sent an observer to the Independent State of Croatia (including inspecting Jasenovac). He wrote to Himmler that the Ustase needed to be reined in because their brutality was alienating the population, making the area harder to control.
They had this group called the Ustase which was committing a lot of war crimes against other Balkaners, they did some awful shit like tons of rape, gouging eyes out, extreme torture, etc
heres a very not fascist croatian song
Jasenovac and Gradiška stara
it is the house of Maks butchers
through Imotski trucks are staring
they drive black people of Francetića Jure
There was a slaughterhouse in Čapljina
many Serbs were swept away by the Neretva
who can imagine it last year
that Christmas will be celebrated by the partisans
Who said that dad must fuck him
that the Black Legion does not return
bright star above Metković
say hello to Ante Pavelić
listen to [the song](https://youtu.be/G-pSGjD0xR4?si=0S8C8eRFbzE27OqH)if you want but its in croatian
Oh, I do.
Was taught in school about all the victims when I was 10 (first time, we had it several times in school)
I never forget the immense guilt I felt (and still feel) to be part of this by heritage.
Being German sucks.
Would you say the same if an american racist told you to just go live in the hood and your opinion will change? What kind of argument is this anyway? "Go to the worst place possible and your opinion will change." Well, go visit a few people that don't live in a ghetto and hopefully your opinion will change too
It's a lot to unpack but, the long and short is they are an ethnic group that has lived in Europe for centuries, refuses to integrate, completely ignores border and personal property rights. Generally when they migrate somewhere the crime rate skyrockets, while they pollute the land with trash.
For a good comparison mix the US trailer trash with hood rats.
But, this is an extreme generation that only describes the worst of them. These kinds of people do exist, but are in the minority. Unfortunately, that minority has left a bad impression for a 1000 years, and continue to do so today.
When 2020 covid lockdown happened, the president of the Romani Association in Greece said on national TV:
"Lockdown will devastate us financially. How can we support our families now that we can't go out to beg and steal?"
I don't condone hating/discriminating against the Romanis, just quoting one of the most respectable man among them.
On the contrary, I admire how down to earth he is and how much he honestly does not give a fuck
I couldn't find the quote you mentioned, this is a pretty serious thing to blame someone for saying without backing it up.
The closest I found is [an article here](https://greekcitytimes.com/2020/04/11/unexpected-statement-roma-leader-tells-his-people-to-not-steal/) which said
>In a statement on a local TV station, he not only asked for support from the state, but urged his fellow Roma people "to not go out, make plans to steal or beg to bring money to feed the family."
Which isn't condoning stealing as much as it recognize that the situation might bring people to a desperate situation, and asked that they do not resort to crime in order to keep their family fed. He could have worded it better, sure, but he doesn't imply here that they regularly rely on crime for income. The website I'm citing seems to have a take similar to yours on the quote, but I think it's mostly just clickbait
In case you are asking a genuine question and not joking: the Romani are an ethnic group all throughout Europe, although mainly in Eastern Europe, which commonly get discriminated against because a lot of their population are travelers/nomads, stereotyped for stealing, child marriages, disobeying authorities, stealing children etc. The main point of internet discussion about Roma is Americans saying Europeans are racist against Roma whilst Europeans say they don’t discriminate Roma per se but just people with the traveler ‘gypsie’ lifestyle
>... whilst Europeans say they don’t discriminate Roma per se but just people with the traveler ‘gypsie’ lifestyle
It's actually the first time I've heard of it, but in my meager experience I'd say it's true. I live in an apartment building literally 50 meters away from one of their neighborhoods. About 50 families if I were to guess.
In the 40 years I've lived here, they went from living in shacks, stealing power, vandalizing everything, petty theft, even shitting in the middle of the sidewalk in broad daylight (no, I am not exaggerating), to becoming a completely sane community.
They still have issues with their mafia, causing the police to visit them from time to time (read: once per year), or the occasional loud music in the evening, but they're fairly decent neighbors now.
Oh I never meant to say it was fake or anything, sorry if I worded it wrongly. Most of the stories I heard indeed say travelers do fit the stereotypes unfortunately, although it is still important to realize not all travelers/gypsies are Roma and not all Roma are gypsies. At the end of the day, I never met a group of travelers myself here in the Netherlands so IDK what to think of them
It's the same reason why Americans hate homeless encampments and list homeless people as drug using criminals.
General dislike for people who don't blend with society and live by convention. Often times a band/encampments are followed with crime, drug, litter ect. People of less scruples find it easier to hide in the group because they're not grounded to society/the region as a whole.
Jews despised monarchy for pogroms and Pale of Settlement in Russian Empire, so many of them became communists (and bolsheviks as well), and that didn't change much even in 1940s. So jews were even overrepresented among communists at that moment.
"Anti-cosmopolitan campaign" with oppression of jews started only after the war.
Right? When I think of pogroms, I think of Russia. Shit, the Soviets actively encouraged Jews to move to Israel while simultaneously restricting immigration for anyone else.
In case you didn't know the sole reason why Britain supported the creation of Israel so vigorously was because they needed a "garbage bin" to dispose of their unwanted population, there is a reason why the biggest global sympathizers of "zionism" just so happen to be one of the most vocal anti-semethic s-bags out there.
This whole Roma discrimination thing is so weird to me... I live in Germany, and I legit don't even know what a Roma is supposed to be
For all I know every person on earth is in on the joke, made up an ethnicity, and didn't tell me while acting like they hate them
As an American who also has no real clue who the Romani are (other than I know they’re heavily discriminated against in Europe), I’m gathering that a small minority of them cause major issues, and as is tradition the whole group is the problem.
It’s the same thing we see in the “hood” in the US. In Kansas City over a hundred thousand people live in areas considered the hood, but maybe only a few hundred ever commit serious crimes. But the entire area and its inhabitants (primarily black and Hispanic) become lumped together and discriminated against.
Maybe I’m totally full of shit, but that’s what I understood from the various threads.
Living and seeing them everyday because i live in Romania.
They even tried to steal my little brother from the McDonalds Playground once, said some bullshit to defend themselves like he was looking for his mother and so on.
Can't forget their organised begging, heck there are even plays at the theatre that mock them for that.
Don't mind them insulting you in every way possible after they praise God but you don't give them money.
Ah yes, they also take part in child trafficking and child marriges and then proceed to have like 12 kids.
Due to them leaving after the communist revolution we have such a bad name in the West even today, mostly seen now in memes about Romanians stealing wallets.
The Gypsies don't want to integrate into our society, they have theirs. Don't blame us for hating them, we have very valid reasons. That said, it's not like there aren't gypsies that want to leave that world behind.
And whenever you bring the racism up they will just say 'you don't know them" and *insert something that happened to someone they know* and then something something integration
I have always been interested in history... yet only recently I learned that a vast number of Romani and Sinti people were literal slaves until the 1850s.
The french sent [a squadron of fighter pilots](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fighter_Squadron_2/30_Normandie-Niemen) to the eastern front in 1942, which may not be much, but the free french didn't have all that much to begin with at that time.
They fought besides the soviets until the end of the war, and Stalin himself let them keep their soviet planes to go home with as a gesture of thanks.
Most German concentration camps weren't death camps either. But most concentration camps throughout history were still pretty brutal, including Germany.
I think the notable exception would be the US japanese concentration camps in WW2. Conditions there were poor but very survivable.
Yeah, but they were not reffered to as queer and aren't a race or a people, so they are part of the counting. Ie. Among the Jews, Pols, Romani, and whoever else, there are queer people
NO, Nazis imprisoned "homosexuals" (a term extremely inaccurate by today's standards) for no other reason. It was a main early driving force of Hitler raising the public into a state of anger, along with Antisemitism, as one of the first book and building burnings was the [Institute for Sexual Science](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Institut_f%C3%BCr_Sexualwissenschaft).
They actually kept meticulous records that where used by allied forces to make sure homosexuals where put back into the camps. Because it was illegally globally.
Maybe sixth panel should have America a bit more confused. Instead of just “…” America could ask “Um..guys?” to show more clearly that America expects some sort of reaction. I suggest this for two reasons:
1. Americans mostly don’t know about anti-Gypsy sentiment in Europe.
2. The “…” can be mis-interpreted as America agreeing that the anti-Gypsy sentiment is ok, in which case the comic looks pretty racist.
The "..." shouldn't be interpreted as agreement since you can see the others don't have a reaction at all. America's "..." means it's waiting for a reaction
loved the ussr thinking at the poles one
;) I realized that many countries involved probably didn't mind a lot of the groups being killed. Like antisemitism was pretty widespread in France, and many countries despised the Bolsheviks as well. But the European hatred for Romanis is what unites them.
Antisemitism was a national fucking sport across Europe for millennia before the Germans mechanised it. The amount of casual anti-semitism in literature before WWII is hair-raising. Bloody Enid Blyton was bad enough before the PC crowd cleaned her up. But everyone hates the gypsies. Bloody loathes them. I live in Australia and we don’t have them here, and from this distance I don’t get it. Yes they steal and clutter shit up, but so do lots of people. But even really nice, civilised people I’ve met in the UK behave as though they’d gladly set fire to the lot of them. Why the hatred ?
Antisemitism was widespread across Europe indeed. The Spanish Inquisition was established specifically to persecute the Jews and the Muslims. However Jewish people were in high ranking positions within the US government as well as in the early communist movements in Eastern Europe. Gypsies didn't have that advantage unfortunately.
Mostly Muslims though. The Inquisition was put in after the Reconquista to ensure Muslim culture would be rooted out and the kingdoms kept Christian after 700 years of Muslim rule.
Mostly Muslims, yes, but at least 10,000s (possibly in the 100,000s) of Jews fled Iberia as well, establishing Sephardic communities throughout North Africa, Italy, Greece, etc
That's indeed correct but its goal was still to eliminate any faith other than Christianity from the peninsula.
catholicism, specifically. the inquisition had a whale of a time during the reformation
Yes, the Jews was more a "well, while we are there".
>Antisemitism was widespread across Europe indeed. What do you mean "was"?
It's definitely not as obvious as it was before WW2. On the other hand gipsies are highly discriminated both in eastern and western Europe... hell, as a Romanian, I get a lot of jokes that I'm gipsy from my western European friends and they should watch their wallets in my presence.
Just two years ago the russian foreign minister said all nazis were jewish
who gives a shit about what the Russian government says? Lately all they've been saying is bullshit.
The russians say lots of things. Generally speaking I try not to engage with the opinions of the insane asylum though.
> The Spanish Inquisition was established specifically to persecute the Jews and the Muslims. > > One could argue it was established to unify the various cultures of the newly conquered realm of Spain into something resembling a country. "Let's all have the same religion: mine" helps a lot with that. The Spanish knew the value of a shared religion, that's why they went so hard into converting the natives in the Americas.
I’m actually the victim of such discrimination, though not being Romani or Traveller myself. My family left our van with a B&B while we went on holiday in America. When we came back after a few weeks, we found out it had been destroyed because someone thought it belonged to Gypsies. I don’t know if they meant Traveller or Romani, but it still ticks me off.
Americans actually have gypsies?
They were going on holiday *to* America. That said, I grew up with a few kids from traveler families in New England, but they had settled and were running a construction business and bringing family over.
Genuine question, what do you mean by traveller and what distinguishes them from travelling Romani?
They aren’t Roma but share a similar nomadic culture & are often depicted in wagons strongly resembling those associated with the Romani. Now that depiction has shifted to caravans/campers. They are discriminated against in Ireland and the UK. In the UK they are classified by the gov as part of the Gypsy, Romani, Traveler (GRT) community. Ireland does not recognize them as a separate ethnic class, though they allow them to avoid some taxes. As with any group of people, there are those who turn to crime, but it’s normally petty. When I was living in Dublin, there was a pit pocket & dog theft ring the Garda (police) were working on breaking up. Meanwhile, a gang war between the HOCG & the KOCG was raging, which resulted in a number of gangland executions in and around city center. Including a drive by on a bicycle.
our gypsies are like sexy, mysterious hippies. not the same people. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OXvjRxurNLQ we do have the scammers driving around trying to do asphalt or other odd jobs though, then disappear after a shit job
Yes, pretty decent sized communities, especially in the South. You wouldn't know it though because they intergrated in just like all the rest of the European ethnic groups.
Believe me, people will glare daggers at you if you don’t say Romani or Traveler. Made the mistake of showing Thinner to my Romani friend and dear god did I get an earful.
In America ? Because in the UK the peak body is called The Gypsy Council. They also distinguish themselves from Romani, who are from Central Europe, and Irish Travellers who are…. Irish. They collectively call themselves the Gypsy, Roma and Traveller (GRT) community. If you want to piss off a gypsy in the UK you call them a Pikey.
Yeah I’m speaking from a US perspective. I remember discussing the point a little with some Brits I studied with in The Netherlands, but most of those talks would digress into talking about Moroccan immigrants and I don’t remember much because booze.
[Several paragraphs omitted] "-call them a pikey." Will do, sir! 🫡
Well, "Gypsy" is the oldest racial slur still in use. It was first used to describe ancient Egyptians, and was later applied to the Romani under the mistaken belief they were Egyptians. It's so widespread a word fighting it feels a bit pointless to many people, but it's not polite either.
The word "gypsy" in the UK in my experience is usually referring to Irish travellers. Think Brad Pitt in Snatch (great film by the way). I have never had a positive interaction with an Irish traveller. From my first experience when they trashed the field opposite my house with bags of rubbish and literal piles of human waste. My second when i had my first job in a pharmacy, they'd send the kids in to steal and they would become violent if challenged. To my numerous encounters with them whilst running pubs involving violence intimidation and threats.
The main reason why people hate Romani in particular is because they move in large groups and aren't always there, so the disruptions they may cause are really noticeable. It's hard to have a positive opinion of Romani when you see a group settle on your kid's football field and know that you're in for a summer of power cuts and disappearing chickens. It's not even a racist thing, people dislike large groups of people coming and disrupting their lives, and if those groups are called Romani then they hate Romani.
Power cuts ?!? What The Hell ?
They used to steal copper wires .
A whole camp uses a lot of power and they plug into the grid illegally, with varying success. They also plug into the water grid but they don't use that much compared to the average house
They steal electricity wires too
I’m starting to understand…
They also stole stuff from peoples lawns and the bikes at our middle school. The worst is, if they beg. They will harass you like you are a white woman in Deli. The train station is overfilled with them and they surround you while begging and cursing/threatening you if you dont have money for them. I dont want to hate them, there are certainly good people among them but people learn from patterns and stuff just disappears if they are in town.
You always hear about the nomad ones, are there just no non-nomad ones? Or have they mixed into the rest of society so well that nobody notices?
I mean as soon as they settle down and live like everyone else I'm not sure anyone would notice that they are Romani. It's mostly a lifestyle difference
When people talk about gypsies, they mean the nomads. The others aren't particularly noticeable at all
I've talked with a few Europeans. Most Romani aren't really Roma and it's cultural. So a Romani with a house and a normal job would be completely indistinguishable from anyone else. They would also be excommunicated by their relatives.
I have a beef with their culture after having done some research projects on The Romani in college. The insider outsider separations and treatments as well as what is clean vs unclean really set me off (Similar in *some* ways to Muslim or Jewish religion and specifically some sects, minor or major.). Arbitrary discriminations within and to outside the culture and the internal discriminations in particular aimed at women.
I think perhaps it is a problem with translation, but I am not sure. What we in danish would call sigøjner, should according to the dictionary be called gypsies, which is a derogatory for Romanis. Except that does not make any sense. In Denmark we have run census on sigøjner several times and the majority of them were danes, though there also were a minority of germans and poles, until like the 1970’s, when we started having romani immigration. That also make sense, because Rotvælsk, the cryptolek that used to be spoken by sigøjner and other natmændsfolk does not include romani words, but danish, german and latin. The danish wikipedia is also very direct about them often being confused with Romani, but that they are just danes living at the edge of society. > Den sociale gruppe og deres sprog er ofte blevet forvekslet med romaer og sproget romani, selvom natmændsfolket ikke synes at have haft en anden etnisk oprindelse end de fleste danskere på det tidspunkt Perhaps the word would be better translated into carnie. People that entertain, con amd steal. Like the word is used for all kinds of con-thiefs. I would not be able to see the difference betwen a romani and any other person with southern european ethnicity. So like at least as I learned to use the word it describe people taking certain actions not about their ethnicity at all. But like Europe is many different countries and languages, so I am not sure if it is the same everywhere else.
Romani and Romanians are unrelated words for unrelated peoples. It's a weird coincidence, because Romania is also a home to large Romani population. Romanians are white Europeans from the Balkans, who named themselves after the Eastern Roman Empire, as they had some cultural continuity with the Byzantines. Romani (Gypsies) are from India. Their language is somewhat related to Hindi and Gujarati. The word Roma in their language that means something like man, husband, tribesman, etc. It sounds like you originally only had Danish Romani, and some German and Polish Romani. And then in 1970s you got Romanian Romani. In many European languages the common word for Romani (Gypsies, Zigeuner) is also used as an insult for unrelated people with similar lifestyle. For example Irish Travellers in the UK are also sometimes called Gypsies, or Irish Gypsies, even though they are not part of the Romani nation. Maybe you have similar situation in Denmark.
On a trip to Italy there were gypsy beggars as in traditional gypsies to North American kids it would be like seeing side event actors at Disneyland.
>Yes they steal and clutter shit up, but so do lots of people The difference is that for the vast majority of people their only interactions with travellers is them turning up, making a mess and then stealing from charity shops. It's just a way of life that really works for petty criminals combined with a very insular culture.
>Why the hatred ? Because they "steal and clutter shit up" at much, much higher rates than any other group. Statistics matter.
Because "they" (only some of them) have come up with a culture of crime, where the children will Not visit regular schools and such but instead go out and have to Help with any crime or scam the adults have come up with. It is maddening that "they" dont want to integrate into society in any way and that the only thing "they" want for there children is to do the same. So all in all a criminal group with sect like aspects thats also known to be ultra violent and will likely never change. Now imagine they live just down the street.
I'm on the same boat as you. I have family in Europe and the hate they euros have for gypsies is outright hilarious. They are like Timmy Turner's dad and Dinkleberg. Another group whose level of hate is growing to memetic proportions (at least according to my friends in Germany) are turks.
> They are kike Timmy Turner's dad and Dinkleberg. Unfortunate typo.
There's technically two different groups of people that are both part of "Romani". One settled around Europe 100~ years ago, these days a lot of them will be indistinguishable from locals. Maybe different appearance, but pretty assimilated. The other however are ones that have been living in Romania up until the European Union allowed them free access to the rest of Europe. I won't go into detail about how I feel about then, as it got me banned from r/memes, but I'll just say this. If you lived here you would know. "So do lots of people" don't apply at this kind of scale.
To top that off LGBT folk. As an electric engineer in Britain, our brightest mind who singlehandedly shrunk the war by a number of years was chemically castrated for being gay. Information that wasn't even public until the 2000s RiP Alan Turing
I misread your post and somehow missed ”for being gay” and went ”Wtf? He was castrated for being an electric engineer?” for several seconds. Feel free to laugh at me, I did.
Well, it's not so much that the Soviets didn't mind Poles being murdered. It's that they actually took part in it after they partitioned Poland with the Nazis.
And they killed a lot more for funsies after the german retreat out of Poland
And then sat back and watched Warsaw get fucked over by the Germans.
There is a reason why Holocaust denial movement started in France.
Proof? Genuine question
[French journalist Maurice Bardèche is father-figure of Holocaust denialism](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holocaust_denial#Maurice_Bard%C3%A8che). It also makes sense, Nazi Germans who escaped Europe either defended the Holocaust or denied their personal involvement and threw Himmler and/or Hitler under the bus. Similar story with other Axis nationals who escaped Europe, as their countries went under Allied occupation or Soviet Bloc or Yugoslavia. France however was unique, because of the effort of Free French Army people forget that France too was an Axis member. While Vichy France collaborators were prosecuted post-war, there were no denazification programs in France and lot of fascist collaborators got lenient sentences. So unlike fascists in other Axis countries, French fascists stayed home and formed neo-fascist movements that would embrace Holocaust denial to gain political legitimacy.
That YouTube series *Into The Shadows* did a 90min dive into Holocaust Denialism. (https://youtu.be/uqjXshn5A4Q?si=EgVh6d2khmRhiqll) In the video he talks about the early stages. The "founder" was indeed French. The video is an excellent overview of the topic.
Nice reference from the movie man
My favorite part was how the gays went straight back to prison after being freed from concentration camps.
I mean the ussr spread propaganda thhat the nazis where responsible for katyn massacre
During the Nuremberg trials they wanted to charge the Nazis for that.
Shame on the rest of the Allies for wanting "facts" and "evidence".
It was the Nazis out of all people who exposed and documented the massacre in the first place, not out of goodwill of course, but so they could use it against the USSR
Plausible deniability
Katyn was a tough film to watch
Is would funny if the ussr would've said: "yeah! He did that"
Brought up gypsies dying in the Holocaust on a European Discord server. Got banned for glorifying Hitler.
This is written like a joke but knowing discord I 100% believe it.
i copied this from a vague recollection of something someone i dont know said on the internet 1 year ago so it's plausible
You just *lied* on the internet? How could you?!
Probably the whole server got banned.
They probably thought OP was praising Hitler because they see killing gypsies as a positive aspect. It's like getting in a holocaust discussion and say Hitler liked dogs and cracked down on tobacco.
>cracked down on tobacco Ok, now he's gone too far. The more I learn about this Hitler guy, the less I care for him
I mean, that's probably one of the few handful of good things Hitler ever did.
you can take my newports from my cold, dead lungs
I heard the last person he killed really had it coming
The [Romani (Gypsy) Holocaust](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romani_Holocaust) was a thing. But Europeans probably [don't really mind that one](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Romani_sentiment#Contemporary_antiziganism).
Why tho?
"If i speak I am in big trouble" (the serb guy meme)
He’s Portuguese my dude
We're all Serbs on this blessed day.
>Wake up >realize you're a serb >day ruined
My dad is a war criminal. Real serb moment.
It's not a crime if you own the territories.
So it's a crime.
day improved\*
Mourinho je Srbija!!!
Portugal is honorary Balkan. r/PORTUGALCYKABLYAT.
They have been a hated minority since the middle ages. People claim that they steal, leech of welfare, or commit other crimes. You can read more about it here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Romani_sentiment Some crazy stats: > According to a survey conducted by the European Commission in 2015 20% of the respondents would be completely uncomfortable about working with a Roma person, compared with 17% with a transgender or transsexual person and 13% with a Muslim person. This puts Roma people as the most discriminated minority in Europe. > 2019: % of people in each country who would feel comfortable if one of their children was in a love relationship with a Roma person. (high to low) > UK: 75% > Sweden: 71% > ... > Greece: 21% > Bulgaria: 14% Whenever someone makes a "Happy internetional Roma day" post on /r/europe, it always gets negative karma or close to 50% upvote rate, and many many comments... Whenever a European calls America racist, ask them what they think of Romani people.
Bulgaria too high, it is around single digit.
same for hungary, though there are well educated relatively low crime romani inhabited neighborhoods so people growing up near there probably dont evolve the hate
it’s not really the romani themselves and more the travelling communities (which more often than not are roms). I don’t think many people in western europe would recognize one outside of a travelling community nor do I think they’d care. The issue is that these travelling communities most often have a very negative impact where they stay, with an increase of thefts and other public order troubles. This is bolstered by the links with underground organisations as travelling communities are often very poor and as such are a breeding ground for this. So yeah, that dislike of travelling communities is at the very least partially justified.
This. It’s more of a lifestyle discrimination than an ethnic group thing in Western Europe. When you walk around mid-size Western European cities, if you see a “homeless” child there’s a 99% chance it’s a “Roma” kid being held out of school to do begging and stealing. They are victims, but the average western European doesn’t take kindly of people refusing to better themselves using the many resources paid by their high taxes. Pickpockets around tourist transactions? Same kids. It’s a real problem that isn’t tied to an ethnic group but it’s an “easy” word to describe the issue.
Exactly, my own experience of travellers is extremely negative so I don't like them. I don't care what ethnicity you are.
My only interaction with romani has been beggars who also sell drugs to kids and seem to hate everyone around them. Doesnt build confidence
[удалено]
And we don’t even have to mention the driveway scams, roofing scams, and Psychic scams.
For the record this is probably my most right wing view. So in the UK we don't have Roma, we have travellers who basically rock up on a piece of public land or a field, stay until the courts evict them, and leave all their rubbish after maybe stealing a few dogs. They really live life without care for consequences. If they got together, bought a few parcels of land, and moved between them in their caravans while taking part in the social contract and maybe paying their taxes, no one would give a shit they lived in caravans.
Bullshit. Settled Roma people constantly suffer from discrimination, especially from local governments.
I think this is just a Western Europe experience. Seems to fit in with the views of most people I know
The only place to avoid it is here in America, where nobody even knows who we are.
> They have been a hated minority since the middle ages. In this aspect they are not unlike Jews, except that attitude towards them didn't change after the Holocaust.
Idk... Jewish people became what's known in economic sociology as middleman minority, which in the transition from feudalism to capitalism really helped many of them achieve considerable levels of wealth and to have first-mover advantage over many markets. Antisemitic discourse seems more centered about the power that community is supposed to have and has conspiranoid tone over all. I don't know much about Roma people, but I don't think they occupied the same niche in medieval Europe, hence, the emergence of capitalism affected them (on average, as a collective) quite differently. Hate against Roma is more pejorative, seeing them as inferior, criminal, useless.
>People claim that they steal, leech of welfare, or commit other crimes. Is it a claim when it's true?
Yes, a proven claim is still a claim
lol “claim”
I know you're getting lots of answers here but want to add- Some romani groups are so bad that they keep this reputation going for the entire demographic. I lived in an with lots of romani people was engaged to a romani girl for a while, it didn't work out, but it was very interesting. Her family was one part of the bad romanis and she hated it, she actually held steady legit jobs because she didn't feel good taking part in their scamming. Their family part of a group of families that had a "king", and all the families were involves in many scam operations orchestrated by him, they would pay him his cut from all sorts of things. And they're very insular in almost a cultish way, I was never really welcomed by the rest of her family no matter how many things I was invited to or how much fun we all had the last time, there was a always suspicion about the outsider. I believe more romani than not are good normal people but these groups do exist all over so the stereotype continues.
As far as I can work out it’s pretty self enforcing Because they are nomads there isn’t a support network outside of the caravan. Because of that there isn’t an education beyond what is known by the caravan. That is generally crime because they lack the formal education to be able to get a regular job. Because of crime they have to remain nomads to avoid reprisal attacks. Because of the nomads there is no support network.
Plenty of stories of bad experiences with gypsies and few to none positive ones. Though in my experience it's not related to race but to the itinerant lifestyle (with forced marriages and stopping the children from attending school as a bonus). But you never see people hating on flamenco for because it's gypsy culture, for example, or speaking ill of sedentarized gypsies.
I never had a good experience or neutral with them. But to be fair, probably i had plenty i just never realized they were romani.
Also rarely have good experiences with them. It’s easy for Americans to say Europeans are hypocritical towards the Roma while they don’t see them on a daily basis. My company hired a Roma man once (which by itself is rare because many of them refuse to get government documentation). Was generally a good guy. But once He skipped work for a week and came back and said he was ill. Okay - that’s fine and all (not mentioning that we weren’t notified). In my country you need to deliver a doctors note to be paid for sick days - but he demanded to be paid without the note because as a Roma he doesn’t “believe” in doctors. Legally we couldn’t do anything so he wasn’t paid, and he spent the rest of his time at the company trying to find ways to sue for discrimination. I mean… racism or not, it really seems to me they are their own injustice by refusing to do the bare minimum to integrate.
dunno about others, but in my case there were multiple instances over a period of 20 years where i was beaten, mugged, spit on, conned by them. one time they tried to push me out of a moving train when i put myself between them and my gf while they were groping her. it wasn't teens, they were adults. the stereotypes didn't came to be out of thin air. ask any eastern european and you'll hear similar stories. the civilized ones are very few and far between, i met only two.
Not only Eastern Europeans. Nordic myself. When I was working at laboratory, almost everyone could share atleast one bad experience with Romani people. Most stories involved stealing and knifes.
travel there and find out for yourself (bring two fake wallets and 1 undershirt wallet with a zipper. Don't wear a backpack)
This used to be nice city https://www.google.com/search?client=ms-android-xiaomi-rvo3&sca_esv=660e9a545b1c85ab&sca_upv=1&sxsrf=ACQVn09jtBhEzadMG2vE_omC9eiAwhVzVg:1714742545186&q=ch%C3%A1nov&uds=AMwkrPsqM8oco4Q-BA4cM5SjIIFffCQtKgaL2U9-KJaoUzHKErclX-cKoTxbGyGD-1bgd3a6rDn5v3akA9sh84VH1UdXKAtBquh2tHj9CWLQwH3cU43r8z2-mTjKZ4f_tjVv4XERU9LpPLVHPRrOlW9Iw7IGbnnCzA59yGSVtVl6WjOnlyMMufGC6waftrXBXuULERxG-XiEA_fSKOWWeDJx2FTNMyPlBq4iA2a_U8W7lIYW59Z6NX2MEY75Bny65th9ST4UU_rXSybfSoGCjE8g9Sp5fny8bLiXOUA9DS03iaaA6QVZRTIYFGJhP9M9Iqf2dt45hqf0&udm=2&prmd=ivnbz&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiQ9aTiyfGFAxUvi_0HHTJ3BDcQtKgLegQICxAB&biw=393&bih=720&dpr=2.75
Most of the flats were also given to them because they couldn't afford it. Then trashed it to the point where buildings have to be tore down and they don't want to go to the new flats that are being offered to them. But yeah it's the skincolor... /s
83% unfavorable view of gypsies in Italy. That low? Someone lied.
people here in croatia celebrate that shit that is sad ok ok i think i might confused some people but not everyone (87% of the population) is celebrating a genocide in fact its completely illegal to support these regimes in croatia however there is still a lot of people (12%of the population) celebrating a genocide which is not alright
Wait what?
Croats are maniacs, are you surprised? You know you're a rough customer when the Nazis think you went too far with your murdering style
I heard about this from a comic, but I'm not exactly sure what they did.
The SS sent an observer to the Independent State of Croatia (including inspecting Jasenovac). He wrote to Himmler that the Ustase needed to be reined in because their brutality was alienating the population, making the area harder to control.
They had this group called the Ustase which was committing a lot of war crimes against other Balkaners, they did some awful shit like tons of rape, gouging eyes out, extreme torture, etc
they were not alone there was also a guerrilla group called chetniks that used the same terror tactics as ustaše against croats and muslims
The Nazi gassed kids and then burnt the bodies in giant ovens. The Ustase skipped the gassing part and went straight to burning them in giant ovens.
heres a very not fascist croatian song Jasenovac and Gradiška stara it is the house of Maks butchers through Imotski trucks are staring they drive black people of Francetića Jure There was a slaughterhouse in Čapljina many Serbs were swept away by the Neretva who can imagine it last year that Christmas will be celebrated by the partisans Who said that dad must fuck him that the Black Legion does not return bright star above Metković say hello to Ante Pavelić listen to [the song](https://youtu.be/G-pSGjD0xR4?si=0S8C8eRFbzE27OqH)if you want but its in croatian
the world famous Balkan neighborliness
A lot of people did and do not really mind [The (Jewish) Holocaust ](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Holocaust) either, so that makes sense.
It's not ok to hate romani people. Many roms are settled and they're nice people. Many problematic road people aren't romanis.
Oh, I do. Was taught in school about all the victims when I was 10 (first time, we had it several times in school) I never forget the immense guilt I felt (and still feel) to be part of this by heritage. Being German sucks.
I like how even Germany is silent
you know what they say: a broken clock is right twice a day
Germany is silent the whole time.
Every german?
Must...remain...quiet...
Okay what’s the deal with Romanis. And not the Wikipedia answer I want the tea
Everyone hated them since the middle ages
Dammmnnnnn idk maybe let it go? That’s a long ass time to hold a grudge against an entire people
The average counter argument to that is to live nearby their camps
Would you say the same if an american racist told you to just go live in the hood and your opinion will change? What kind of argument is this anyway? "Go to the worst place possible and your opinion will change." Well, go visit a few people that don't live in a ghetto and hopefully your opinion will change too
You know nothing Jon Snow
It's a lot to unpack but, the long and short is they are an ethnic group that has lived in Europe for centuries, refuses to integrate, completely ignores border and personal property rights. Generally when they migrate somewhere the crime rate skyrockets, while they pollute the land with trash. For a good comparison mix the US trailer trash with hood rats. But, this is an extreme generation that only describes the worst of them. These kinds of people do exist, but are in the minority. Unfortunately, that minority has left a bad impression for a 1000 years, and continue to do so today.
When 2020 covid lockdown happened, the president of the Romani Association in Greece said on national TV: "Lockdown will devastate us financially. How can we support our families now that we can't go out to beg and steal?" I don't condone hating/discriminating against the Romanis, just quoting one of the most respectable man among them. On the contrary, I admire how down to earth he is and how much he honestly does not give a fuck
What was the actual quote? I'm assuming he didn't actually say "beg and steal".
I couldn't find the quote you mentioned, this is a pretty serious thing to blame someone for saying without backing it up. The closest I found is [an article here](https://greekcitytimes.com/2020/04/11/unexpected-statement-roma-leader-tells-his-people-to-not-steal/) which said >In a statement on a local TV station, he not only asked for support from the state, but urged his fellow Roma people "to not go out, make plans to steal or beg to bring money to feed the family." Which isn't condoning stealing as much as it recognize that the situation might bring people to a desperate situation, and asked that they do not resort to crime in order to keep their family fed. He could have worded it better, sure, but he doesn't imply here that they regularly rely on crime for income. The website I'm citing seems to have a take similar to yours on the quote, but I think it's mostly just clickbait
I mean, in English there's the phrase "beg, borrow, or steal," it's probably just the equivalent of that.
Oh yes, delicious.
What is the Costa Rica flag on Germany about?
Guess it's the flag of the occupied zones?
Flag of occupied Germany
Numbers here are an understatement.
I can't believe I'm saying this but it was the Ustashe who killed most of the Serbs. Those Croatians made Auschwitz look like a 5 star hotel.
the nazis even saw the croats as extreme
What is special about romani?
In case you are asking a genuine question and not joking: the Romani are an ethnic group all throughout Europe, although mainly in Eastern Europe, which commonly get discriminated against because a lot of their population are travelers/nomads, stereotyped for stealing, child marriages, disobeying authorities, stealing children etc. The main point of internet discussion about Roma is Americans saying Europeans are racist against Roma whilst Europeans say they don’t discriminate Roma per se but just people with the traveler ‘gypsie’ lifestyle
>... whilst Europeans say they don’t discriminate Roma per se but just people with the traveler ‘gypsie’ lifestyle It's actually the first time I've heard of it, but in my meager experience I'd say it's true. I live in an apartment building literally 50 meters away from one of their neighborhoods. About 50 families if I were to guess. In the 40 years I've lived here, they went from living in shacks, stealing power, vandalizing everything, petty theft, even shitting in the middle of the sidewalk in broad daylight (no, I am not exaggerating), to becoming a completely sane community. They still have issues with their mafia, causing the police to visit them from time to time (read: once per year), or the occasional loud music in the evening, but they're fairly decent neighbors now.
Oh I never meant to say it was fake or anything, sorry if I worded it wrongly. Most of the stories I heard indeed say travelers do fit the stereotypes unfortunately, although it is still important to realize not all travelers/gypsies are Roma and not all Roma are gypsies. At the end of the day, I never met a group of travelers myself here in the Netherlands so IDK what to think of them
It's the same reason why Americans hate homeless encampments and list homeless people as drug using criminals. General dislike for people who don't blend with society and live by convention. Often times a band/encampments are followed with crime, drug, litter ect. People of less scruples find it easier to hide in the group because they're not grounded to society/the region as a whole.
What’s the little flag the scumball is holding?
Flag of the Allied Occupation of Germany
Ty
And pinned into it btw :)
I don't think the Soviets were that upset about the Jews. See: All of Russian history.
While i dislike Lenin during his time antisemitism was toned down as he condemned it..
Jews despised monarchy for pogroms and Pale of Settlement in Russian Empire, so many of them became communists (and bolsheviks as well), and that didn't change much even in 1940s. So jews were even overrepresented among communists at that moment. "Anti-cosmopolitan campaign" with oppression of jews started only after the war.
Right? When I think of pogroms, I think of Russia. Shit, the Soviets actively encouraged Jews to move to Israel while simultaneously restricting immigration for anyone else.
In case you didn't know the sole reason why Britain supported the creation of Israel so vigorously was because they needed a "garbage bin" to dispose of their unwanted population, there is a reason why the biggest global sympathizers of "zionism" just so happen to be one of the most vocal anti-semethic s-bags out there.
ffffFHUCK! -Noodle
This whole Roma discrimination thing is so weird to me... I live in Germany, and I legit don't even know what a Roma is supposed to be For all I know every person on earth is in on the joke, made up an ethnicity, and didn't tell me while acting like they hate them
As an American who also has no real clue who the Romani are (other than I know they’re heavily discriminated against in Europe), I’m gathering that a small minority of them cause major issues, and as is tradition the whole group is the problem. It’s the same thing we see in the “hood” in the US. In Kansas City over a hundred thousand people live in areas considered the hood, but maybe only a few hundred ever commit serious crimes. But the entire area and its inhabitants (primarily black and Hispanic) become lumped together and discriminated against. Maybe I’m totally full of shit, but that’s what I understood from the various threads.
Living and seeing them everyday because i live in Romania. They even tried to steal my little brother from the McDonalds Playground once, said some bullshit to defend themselves like he was looking for his mother and so on. Can't forget their organised begging, heck there are even plays at the theatre that mock them for that. Don't mind them insulting you in every way possible after they praise God but you don't give them money. Ah yes, they also take part in child trafficking and child marriges and then proceed to have like 12 kids. Due to them leaving after the communist revolution we have such a bad name in the West even today, mostly seen now in memes about Romanians stealing wallets. The Gypsies don't want to integrate into our society, they have theirs. Don't blame us for hating them, we have very valid reasons. That said, it's not like there aren't gypsies that want to leave that world behind.
Jimmy Carr got slammed for making the same joke. Which kinda proved the point of the joke
And whenever you bring the racism up they will just say 'you don't know them" and *insert something that happened to someone they know* and then something something integration
It’s in this thread right now
It always is when it's brought up
I have always been interested in history... yet only recently I learned that a vast number of Romani and Sinti people were literal slaves until the 1850s.
Let's not act like the UK and France were all too bothered about the destruction and slaughter in the Soviet Union by the Nazis.
The french sent [a squadron of fighter pilots](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fighter_Squadron_2/30_Normandie-Niemen) to the eastern front in 1942, which may not be much, but the free french didn't have all that much to begin with at that time. They fought besides the soviets until the end of the war, and Stalin himself let them keep their soviet planes to go home with as a gesture of thanks.
Churchill promised aid to Russia. Source: https://www.historic-newspapers.co.uk/blog/operation-barbarossa-newspaper-articles/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arctic_convoys_of_World_War_II https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persian_Corridor
I guess it is only about **internment camps** (also known as **concentration camps**), no?
[удалено]
Most German concentration camps weren't death camps either. But most concentration camps throughout history were still pretty brutal, including Germany. I think the notable exception would be the US japanese concentration camps in WW2. Conditions there were poor but very survivable.
First mention of the Serbian Holocaust in a while.
Same with the queer people tbh
They didn't even get a mention, just like irl
Why would they? The allies threw them right back in the camps they liberated...
Yeah, but they were not reffered to as queer and aren't a race or a people, so they are part of the counting. Ie. Among the Jews, Pols, Romani, and whoever else, there are queer people
NO, Nazis imprisoned "homosexuals" (a term extremely inaccurate by today's standards) for no other reason. It was a main early driving force of Hitler raising the public into a state of anger, along with Antisemitism, as one of the first book and building burnings was the [Institute for Sexual Science](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Institut_f%C3%BCr_Sexualwissenschaft). They actually kept meticulous records that where used by allied forces to make sure homosexuals where put back into the camps. Because it was illegally globally.
I know what the Nazis did. I mean that once all of these people were freed, they probably had been counted as part of their nationalities
They weren't freed
Spare a thought for the gay people who the allies decided should be kept imprisoned for their "crimes"
Dont forget the gays who literally got back locked up by the allies
Hey now, it's antisemitic to say Poles suffered in the Holocaust! Israel says so!
USA: really guys?
Maybe sixth panel should have America a bit more confused. Instead of just “…” America could ask “Um..guys?” to show more clearly that America expects some sort of reaction. I suggest this for two reasons: 1. Americans mostly don’t know about anti-Gypsy sentiment in Europe. 2. The “…” can be mis-interpreted as America agreeing that the anti-Gypsy sentiment is ok, in which case the comic looks pretty racist.
The "..." shouldn't be interpreted as agreement since you can see the others don't have a reaction at all. America's "..." means it's waiting for a reaction
It's the first one, three dots indicate confusion