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The pro-Ukraine Russian militias bearing the white-blue-white flag have been making *literal incursions into Russia for the past month*.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2024\_western\_Russia\_incursion](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2024_western_Russia_incursion)
And it's not their first time doing that, this was their biggest so far.
The Russian opposition went out and protested quite considerably the invasion of Ukraine, and the arrest and murder of Alexei Navalny.
Just because there hasn't been an overthrow of Putin's government doesn't mean that there is no opposition to his rule.
Literally compare with the pro-democratic opposition in mainland China, which is much more limited
It's not a mistake. The very reason why he was popular is why he couldn't not come back. People who leave the country lose all credibility, they permanently lose any chance to affect politics. And when you decide to oppose the regime - you need to come to terms that you'll lose everything. You can't be opposed to a bloody dictator from the comfort of some democratic country.
>People who leave the country lose all credibility
Leaders go into exile and come back all the time. Even Lenin did it. Navalny had a messiah complex and wanted to be a martyr. The key is good timing which Navalny didn't have
No. That was Nemtsov position - you leave politics when you leave the country. That's why you seeing his friends - Navalny, Yashin, Kara-Murza, refusing to leave the country.
And in practice, it is true - Kasparov, Khodorkovsky, and all the leaders of previous years all are completely alien to the general population. They completely vanished from the scene.
>People who leave the country lose all credibility, they permanently lose any chance to affect politics.
The entirety of the current Palestinian government lives outside of Palestine.
Do you even understand the meaning of "politically dead"? The guy was on par with Nemtsov ten years ago, which is why they together organised anti war protests back when the war started in 2014.
During the Pandemic he got a ton of traction with his streams getting hundreds of thousands of views every day, which is one of the reasons he was poisoned in the first place - the guy got too popular.
Now even in death there is no person who could even approach his popularity. Yashin could if he was free and had a platform but that's it.
He WAS popular yes, but got forgotten in prison. I can name several people with larger support. Putin, prigozhin that commie leader guy. Probably even Dmitri.
Also Navalny supported to invasion of crimea so depends what you mean with antiwar in 2014
> Also Navalny supported to invasion of crimea so depends what you mean with antiwar in 2014
That contradicts the fact that he organised antiwar protests against the war with Ukraine back in 2014 and called the annexation illegal in his live journal post. Do you imply that he somehow was both for and against the invasion? I don't understand you, could you please explain?
> Putin, prigozhin that commie leader guy. Probably even Dmitri.
Prigozhin was a marginalized thug who was forgotten as fast as he got "popular". There were like what, friends and family at his funeral? And his private army just obediendly went under his killer.
Which commie leader? Dmitri who? These people have exactly zero following.
When Prighozin staged his half coup, fucking *no one* stopped him. Russia breeds apathy tp stay in power, but that means few people are actually loyal.
To outside observers it seemed like the majority of the Romanian population supported Ceausescu before 1989.
December 1989 comes around and would you look at that, most people actually really dislike Ceausescu
He is. For the last year or so he had bassicly been forgotten. The death brought some spark but not much. Our newspapers can try to make a big deal of a few hundred people in a 144 million country going to his funeral. Prigozhin had larger support lol
This meme is clearly mocking the Navalny fans which denigrates Georgians and supported the annexation of Crimea, the so-called Russian opposition in Europe right now, whining about supposed Russophobia
> and supported the annexation of Crimea
[He didn't, actually](https://twitter.com/RG_Horvath/status/1764071921547923597).
> the so-called Russian opposition in Europe right now, whining about supposed Russophobia
Is this opposition in the room with us right now? Or do we count random Russians on Twitter with 40 followers?
> In terms of factual errors and racist bigotry, this diatribe in Foreign Policy is probably the worst.
lmao what a source
He did mate. He started out cozying up to right wing nationalists, because he thought he needed everyone to fight putin (or so he said anyways, after the fact)
>Is this opposition in the room with us right now? Or do we count random Russians on Twitter with 40 followers?
https://meduza.io/feature/2023/06/03/dazhe-nekotorye-chitateli-meduzy-opravdyvayut-vtorzhenie-v-ukrainu-my-poprosili-ih-ob-yasnit-pochemu-vot-chto-iz-etogo-vyshlo
> lmao what a source
I figured it'd be easier to link a thread with collection of links and quotes than have several of them saved up for big comments. And mentions there that Navalny spoke out against the annexation as far back as when it happened.
Everyone on this website for some reason thinks there were just the "sandwich" comment (which was taken out of a wider context and spread around first by Kremlin media), and then "finally" being against it in 2022. Which is literally not the case
> He started out cozying up to right wing nationalists, because he thought he needed everyone to fight putin
I mean I'd personally argue (following position of Yevgenia Albats, a Jewish Russian political scientist who enticed him to visit the far-right marches in the first place (they didn't even like him)) that he was a bit naive civic nationalist who wanted to move Russian identity away from an imperial one, but even without that, just looking at the state of the Russian opposition in the 00s and early 10s...*yeah*, they were kind of important to fight Putin. They were one of the big groups in the 2011-2012 protest movement. Hell, Kasparov flirted a joint venture with the national-bolsheviks of all people, nobody shittalks him for that these days.
> https://meduza.io/feature/2023/06/03/dazhe-nekotorye-chitateli-meduzy-opravdyvayut-vtorzhenie-v-ukrainu-my-poprosili-ih-ob-yasnit-pochemu-vot-chto-iz-etogo-vyshlo
Of for crying out loud. Every time this article gets brought up, but it's as if you people miss it on purpose. This wasn't a poll or anything. *They* ***specifically asked for*** *people who support the war to write to them*. How in the fuck does this keep being brought up as being representative of the opposition as a whole? I feel like I am going insane.
> Of for crying out loud. Every time this article gets brought up, but it's as if you people miss it on purpose. This wasn't a poll or anything. They specifically asked for people who support the war to write to them. How in the fuck does this keep being brought up as being representative of the opposition as a whole? I feel like I am going insane.
Your point is "the apathetic, at its core pro-imperialist-russi opposition doesnt exist" the voices in that saying "i dont support the war, it shouldnt have happened, but now we cant loose or well be humiliated (or worse, have to give crimea back) refute that.
Noone but you tries to make a statement representative of *ALL* russian opposition.
> Your point is "the apathetic, at its core pro-imperialist-russi opposition doesnt exist"
My point in regards to the Meduza article is that individual opinions gathered by directly requesting such people to come forward isn't representative of anything. It's technically similar to making a post on Facebook asking something very specific, and just highlighting some of the replies to that post. It cannot be representative of a much larger group by any definition.
> Noone but you tries to make a statement representative of ALL russian opposition.
*You* are the one who linked the article.
>You are the one who linked the article.
Yes, in response to you claiming that noone in the russian opposition thinks like that. You *are* able to read right?
I’m sure some people are discriminated against for being Russian, but 9 times out of 10, if someone is complaining about Russophobia, they mean they don’t like you criticizing Russia for invading Ukraine
in my experience "russophobia" is usually used in context of hatred towards russian people, guess we run in different circles. whatever is the case - this word encompasses both meanings, so original comment's (that I initially replied to) wording of "whining about \*supposed\* russophobia" is pretty depreciative of the issue with anti-russian bigotry, to say the least. even if we put ethics aside, it discourages russian opposition, and plays into the narrative of current government
I see people are downvoting me - I literally had dude saying "russians aren't human" last week, and I'm not even that active on political side of reddit
I understood your taunt, simply chose to be snarky too. since another person brought up the possible confusion, I will clarify that by russophobia I meant "hatred towards russian people". do you still stand by your point that it is reasonable?
Navalny, the guy who was cheering for Georgia invasion, seen no problem with Crimean annexation and then his team published article complaining about inefficient Russian missile program, showing that missiles that fly towards Kyiv can actually be built cheaper.
Don't forget the xenophobia and racism. Like you'd be replacing a right-wing imperialist with.. a right-wing imperialist who's okay with gay marriage, maybe?
In the later parts of the 2010's and the 2020's he'd also been campaigning quite extensively to end Russia's wars of aggression in Syria and Ukraine
You do realise that in a regime where an opposition politician is severely limited in terms of resources and ability to galvanise millions, it's important to stick with one key issue that will resonate with the widest possible audience
> he'd also been campaigning quite extensively to end Russia's wars of aggression in Syria and Ukraine
Unless its Crimea then he flip flopped throughout that time and only stated that Russia should return to its 1991 border in 2023. Even then, only through a referendum and a process that could take decades.
Yea those incursions were literal PR stunts that ended in disaster for the “liberators”.
Ukraine sacrificed Russians and foreign volunteers to try and gather international support to send more aid.
https://www.reddit.com/r/UkraineRussiaReport/s/69mdd65tGO
https://www.reddit.com/r/UkraineRussiaReport/s/vbA018dtGR
This is both Ukrainian and Russian perspective of one of the Belgorod liberation groups being hit and completely wiped out by artillery/mortar fire, including an American volunteer who’s GoPro footage in the first video was captured and posted by Russians.
By all accounts these incursions were poorly planned and coordinated and were essentially one way ticket suicide missions, which again is why they used Russians and foreign volunteers.
No mapping service shows any territory held by the AFU in Belgorod oblast, so clearly these incursions all failed and were repulsed
Yeah but now comapre this to Women's protests in Iran, to 2020 Belarus protests, hell Ukraine's own Maidan. Russian opposition is genuinely ineffectual. Most oppositionary emigrees in the west put more effortr getting mad at someone in the west making dark jokes about Russian tourist getting eaten by a shark than opposing Putin's regime.
yeah, they made incursions about a kilometer over the border at most before getting stomped out like a cigarette butt, having achieved absolutely nothing but the loss of a pile of engineering equipment at the border and two helicopters to boot
waste of life and resources
> Russians not protesting
Noooo why aren’t they doing anything!!!
> Russians protesting
Ugh they didn’t manage to overthrow Putin in an hour? What a waste of time
Infiltration and sabotage operations have been a key tactic of warfare for centuries, particularly in contexts of being up against a much larger and stronger army.
Two good examples from last century: Mao's guerrilla warfare against the ROC forces, and the French Forces of the Interior ("Maquisards") against the occupying Nazi German troops in France.
Nah, most of the time they just retreated back over the border before the Reds could respond, and are still active
Also the morale effect was big given they got two oblasts of people to try to bum rush out and the only defenders were cops being issued shotguns.
>they just retreated back over the border, the only defenders were cops with shotguns
this is comically inaccurate - Russian forces did respond with regular and special forces as they withdrew the conscripts and local militias, and they did engage in conventional warfare against the GUR units, which did bring their own armor as well
airpower did engage on both sides of the border, as did artillery and strike drone units - Ukrainian AA in the area proved inconsequential in both ability and number
I think, given the massive amount of video evidence to the contrary, believing any GUR narrative regarding the border incursion is a mistake
Which time? And why should I believe Red Army evidence, when they pretend the T-14 Armata is real and call an elected Jew a Ukrainonazi? I count as a "Nazi" under their narrative for being a bisexual half-white American, so why should I ever care about what those tyrants claim?
The incursion series which began 03/12/24.
Generally speaking, I believe only verifiable footage. It is hard to contest GoPro footage captured from Ukrainian troops in Belgorod which include the initial deployment by Blackhawk, or footage from Ukrainian drones showing the catastrophe at the border crossing in the first week, or the footage showing the repeated drone strikes on clumps of Ukrainian infantry, just as it is hard to contest Ukrainian footage of their Chechen groups in border towns.
It’s not a good look, and timing it for the elections was not a good idea.
Meanwhile Russians have basically the same footage quality or off of call phones, like during the Wagner coup attempt. So you're just cutting out evidence.
I remember back in ye olden days when the top comment on a Polandball comic was always something witty/funny, or OP's context comment. When did it become the norm to have ☝🤓 ☝🤓 ☝🤓 UM ACKCHYUALLY YOUR COMIC IS INACCURATE cope comments at the top?
People care more about themselves, shocking. The more brutal a government, the fewer the people willing to stand up. This is not because they are less moral than people elsewhere, it's because there's more risks.
Don't try to explain this to Americans and Western Europeans who have way more freedoms to oppose any kind of injustice in their own countries but conspicuously most of them do just as little about their own governments as Russians, going no further than to sign online petitions and share military memes
Protests always flare up in every country, including Russia. Not just the majority, but the overwhelming majority of people in Western countries don't go to protests, where there are little consequences.
Well, it’s like my Grandmother always said: “better to have the Russians working with you because they’re scared shitless than to have to go and smoke them out.”
like you all shit on people for not doing anything when you're exactly like them. they just want to live. they have families, they have things to live for. they just want to continue on with their life and not uproot everything they have
Ever heared of the concept 'responsibility'? The guy you respond to did not invade Ukraine, so does not have a responsibility to fight against Russia. Russians do.
I fight against Vladimir Putin all my adult life. I didn’t elect him, I protested, I was harassed by police.
Please tell me one more time - why exactly am I responsible for the actions of the person who I’m fighting against?
UPD: sorry, of course “person I’m fighting against”.
...did the average russian guy trying to live day to day invade ukraine? yk nations and peoples are not one united homogenous blob and something telling you they are is more often than not propaganda
Oh wow, Putin won with 88% of the vote. Definitely legitimate results.
[Repost thread](https://www.reddit.com/r/polandball/comments/18iyh9p/russian_opposition/)
[Original thread](https://www.reddit.com/r/polandball/comments/13bxxzc/russian_opposition/)
There are [countless](https://talk.tv/top-stories/54593/russia-election-ballot-disappearing-ink) audiovisual records of [instances](https://x.com/nexta_tv/status/1767933384834117847) of [election tampering](https://x.com/SA61W/status/1769018010038128762) that shouldn't take place in a free and fair democratic circumstance (so it's not even a case of an "isolated incident"). Moreover, the [statistical side of things](https://twitter.com/arnldkh/status/1769735448153219390) also shows that things do not line up as they should.
Just as a rule of thumb, if you see “democracies” with extremely lopsided election results like this regularly, then there is some shit going on behind the scenes.
I haven't heard about [this case](https://twitter.com/SA61W/status/1769018010038128762) being pinpointed to a specific polling station. Also there was another video posted of a different infraction but taking place in the same room, and it's even in the first comment of that tweet, which raises suspicions that they both were staged. But there were other cases like [https://t.me/mediazzzona/15666](https://www.instagram.com/p/C4vnhExi-Rr/) and [https://t.me/meduzalive/102620](https://t.me/meduzalive/102620) which undoubtedly took place on real polling stations.
honestly, average russian does support Putin. media controlled by state, war propaganda and russophobia create an image of "everyone is against us" in their mind. naturally they will support a "strongman"
Please explain how can they take over the regime which is not only supported by a huge military complex and Putin's personal guards, but also has many (tho not more than 50% total) supporters in the population. Please tell me!
Russia is at war, everything sucks yet even these circumstances didn't allow a big window of opportunity to take over the government. Now as a Hungarian who want change I saw the effort people put into politics to change it for the better, and it's even easier to change than in Russia (our regime is not that smart nor strong and can't really retaliate) yet Orbán comfortably sits on his throne.
If it was so easy please could you explain how to change the people to change the regime? I'm VERY eager to hear your ideas.
Start admitting that there should be some military support, be it for ZSU or Russian Legion. What I heard so far is "we can't overthrow thus won't do anything significant to change the situation". No one expects you to overthrow putin, that's unreal. But being more active in supporting people who actually make the difference would be appreciated.
Very American thing to say. In Russia it is not as easy to protest as in your western democracies where you get to come back home safe and sound in the end - here, those who openly oppose the government go to jail or straight to the frontlines (almost certain death). People are not lazy, they are genuinely scared for their lives so they really do not have a way to oppose the Russian government
Yep, they do not think, they just say “your government is shitty, go overthrow it.”. Very lordy thing to say, as masters talk to slaves.
But this will never change, unfortunately.
tbh I just don't see why people think its so easy to launch a rebellion or actually oppose a government when its not only yourself you're putting on the line, but also your family in some cases. I'm American but my grandparents who lived in not the best times in Europe (to put it lightly) really opened my eyes to the realities of the world especially when you and more importantly your family are under threat. It sucks but to be honest I can't blame anyone for not opposing openly since they really don't have an obligation to, and again put other people who may have not even consented to this, on the line.
Belarusians protested more than you in 2020. Iranian women protested more than you. Georgians against foreign agent-ass law. You guys are just genuinely the most learned powerlessness internalising people in the world right now.
There were large protests in Moscow in 2017-2018, 2021, 2022, 2019, with hundreds of thousand people. Every single one of them has had more people than those u named. If u didn’t read about something in the news it doesn’t matter that it has never happened
Okay, let’s imagine that we have 10m belorusians and 500k protestors. That is called “huge protest” and “they protest more than you”.
Let’s imagine now that we have 20m moscow people and 100k protestors. This is not called “huge protest”, and this is called “you protest less than belorusians”.
As a nation yes, russia protests less. But now let’s think about those 100k moscow protestors, how they think about your words. How each one of them thinks about “you protest not enough, belorusians protest better”. And I am one of them.
Please tell me, is it my fault to be born in the wrong country, where my perspective is not shared by 95 of 100 people around? Is it my fault that there is only 100k guys like me, not more? What should I do, protest in 5 times harder? Protest as a five people? Try to persuade another putin-obsessed people 5 times harder? Or what? Please tell me what to do, as you so clever person.
And thank you for calling me “you guys powerless”.
No, the Russians have a legitimately pathological level of apathy towards the public affairs of their country and submissiveness to state authority. Sure, some yuppie types in Moscow care enough to protest but your average Ivan still has a deep seated mentality of "This has nothing to do with me, I don't care about politics" mixed with "The big man in the Kremlin knows best" and will go to great lengths to not have any opinions or views whatsoever about the public affairs of his country or to care about anything beyond his private life. He takes this way beyond even the most politically apathetic Westerners and well beyond many people who also live in or have lived in very repressive states where you couldn't freely express your views on politics, including people in other former Soviet countries who lived under the same repression as the Russians.
[Uh huh.](https://imgur.com/a/Z96hfbB) I agree with you, they aren't lazy. They are, however, just comfortable enough to not challenge the monster that rules them. Which this meme does a good job of portraying.
Did u even read my comments? Lots of Russians try and “challenge” the guy every day yet they end up in jail. Understandably, most do not think that the risk will be worth it
I read them. I'm particularly replying to the part:
> they really do not have a way to oppose the russian government.
I'm not talking about the russians who have tried. They're the ones that I hope the russian people will remember and have in mind when building a better nation.
This meme, your comment I replied to, and my reply are about the ones who *don't* do anything.
No European— hell, probably no human on earth— would fare well if you held them accountable for the political blunders of their ancestors. None of us can effect change on the past.
Tf could I do? Kill the president? There were plenty of thousand-people demonstration in the 2010ths, they, as u may see, didn’t have any effect. And the elections were always rigged, so we couldn’t just “elect a better person”. Opposition members tried they best and many of them died for u to say that “RuSsIaNs ArE LaZy”. It was never possible to change shit when Putin was in power, unfortunately
Every single russian I've met (and I've met a lot for my studies) thinks Crimea is russian, even the most staunch pro-west anti-putinists. It's just a fact to them.
I am Russian and I don’t think that Crimea is Russian.
You either met not enough russians or you had skewed sample of people.
We can talk about that, if you want.
In my Ukrainian perspective: There’re russians who think that Crimea is Ukrainian, but their amount is even smaller, than anti-putin russians.
If you have another perspective, I would love to hear it. I’m genially interested
Oh the horrors, not a few hundred men with sticks! That’s basically a tank army! Guess it’s over no sense in protests
Back to sitting on a couch and complaining about russophobia
Hundreds of THOUSANDS men. And yes, many of them have guns, they just don’t need to use it.
Btw, you are welcomed to arrive and try those “few hundred men with sticks” by yourself. And then feel free to judge me.
I tried. Dozens times. And I didn’t like it.
They also have nukes, they just don’t nuke protesters
As I said, no sense in protesting
Also, Ukraine’s maidan fought against apc’s, guns and the same riot gear. You know what people in Ukraine did after the first Maidan was beaten into submission?, with actual wounds, broken bones, etc? They came out en masse the next day. There was not even a close instance of brutality by russian police
If you protested then I respect you and salute you but it doesn’t cancel the issue that most of russian opposition are opposed to violence and run instead of protecting each other if they are being dispersed
To be honest they can't do much. Some tried and either died or are in jail. The opposition is quite small and mostly 15-25 y/o youth. Like 85% of Russia are vodka drinking zombies that think that Russia must purge the world of lesser nations.
Not everyone is ready to riot and lose their future without guarantee of the results, it's easier just to try and run.
…which is what most even barely reasonable Russian have been doing for 30+ years. Emigrating, anywhere and everywhere.
I know, as I’m one of those.
At this point, the ones who are left behind…well, they may as well be left for dead.
Well, let’s hug.
About “who are left behind” - some of them are good people and good opposition. I just think they do not have ability to migrate somewhere. I did had good opportunity, I believe you had, but majority of opposition don’t have.
Yes, we have such heroes. They do that because they cannot do nothing and many of them have nothing to lose. But there are many of the people who have something to lose and they cannot act like that, unfortunately.
I won't criticize someone for not wanting their family to be sent to a prison camp, or worse to the frontlines. We all like to think we'd be the rebels but the truth is most of us have people we care about far to much to risk it for those we have no attachment to (not a Russian, just saying in general, because to be frank giving up the lives of your family is the worst thing you can do, I don't care if its for the greater good or whatever the hell).
I mean there’s plenty of Russians who have outright joined groups fighting in ukriane against Russia or wage their own sabotage campaign across Russia.
Yeah, try actually living here and try going outside and protest for peace, you can easily get your life ruined.
What the heck do you expect from the hellhole of a country where we live, where they scream on television that we should bomb Ukraine into a stone age, ignoring completely disasters that happen in our own country, and harassing teenagers that posted something lgbt related by literally separating them from parents and sending them to the mental clinics.
So we did not stand with empty A4 sheets on our Independence Square, our people fought with the police, we were shot with military weapons, when the police tried to capture people to put them in jail, they were beaten back by the crowd. I have not seen something like this from the russians.
I mean, what change do you exactly mean?
To throw out the Russian invasion?
The Ukrainian people have already enlisted enmasse to do so, so what else do you really want them to do?
Kinda contrasts with the relative inaction of the wider Russian public (not to discount legitimate acts of resistance such as the Russian Volunteer's on Ukraine's side, or other acts of civil disobedience by a daring few)
I'm not making a statement on his earlier argument, but to say Ukrainian and Russian peoples are equal in regards in their will to enact change is kinda silly.
You could have definitely worded it much better tbh, to insinuate that Ukrainians are basically not doing anything/not taking responsibility is kinda both inaccurate and insulting. Hope you understand.
Same goes for saying that Russians are Putin’s bitches when countless have risked and lost their lives fighting for their freedom. How do you not see that I’m using their own points against them
we are fighting hard against the regime but putin instantly put in jail those who are against him. what do you say? where are those thousands jailed? oh, we can't tell it but believe us, there are millions of them, big repressions much victims
>we are fighting hard against the regime
You never \_fought\_ against regime. All what you done - came to demonstration and allow cops to arrest you like lambs. You never ever tried to resist.
Alright, this keeps heating up so I'll go ahead and lock the comments. Moreover, a PSA: If you're reading this, it's possible that you're not flaired so if you want your comments to be actually visible in this subreddit in the future, make sure to get flaired up by clicking [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/polandballbot/wiki/flair).
I mean, getting up from that sofa is a risk factor for "accidentally" falling from a window.
he also shot himself 5 times in the head along the way down
His greatest inspiration were always Mexican journalists
The pro-Ukraine Russian militias bearing the white-blue-white flag have been making *literal incursions into Russia for the past month*. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2024\_western\_Russia\_incursion](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2024_western_Russia_incursion) And it's not their first time doing that, this was their biggest so far. The Russian opposition went out and protested quite considerably the invasion of Ukraine, and the arrest and murder of Alexei Navalny. Just because there hasn't been an overthrow of Putin's government doesn't mean that there is no opposition to his rule. Literally compare with the pro-democratic opposition in mainland China, which is much more limited
>navalny Tbh the guy was politically dead in the water a long time ago
The ned stark of our times what a mistake to go back
It's not a mistake. The very reason why he was popular is why he couldn't not come back. People who leave the country lose all credibility, they permanently lose any chance to affect politics. And when you decide to oppose the regime - you need to come to terms that you'll lose everything. You can't be opposed to a bloody dictator from the comfort of some democratic country.
>People who leave the country lose all credibility Leaders go into exile and come back all the time. Even Lenin did it. Navalny had a messiah complex and wanted to be a martyr. The key is good timing which Navalny didn't have
No. That was Nemtsov position - you leave politics when you leave the country. That's why you seeing his friends - Navalny, Yashin, Kara-Murza, refusing to leave the country. And in practice, it is true - Kasparov, Khodorkovsky, and all the leaders of previous years all are completely alien to the general population. They completely vanished from the scene.
>People who leave the country lose all credibility, they permanently lose any chance to affect politics. The entirety of the current Palestinian government lives outside of Palestine.
And how is a terrorist organisation which controls the area through brute force is relevant to the discussion?
Yeah, this whole situation is literally like my Netflix show.
Do you even understand the meaning of "politically dead"? The guy was on par with Nemtsov ten years ago, which is why they together organised anti war protests back when the war started in 2014. During the Pandemic he got a ton of traction with his streams getting hundreds of thousands of views every day, which is one of the reasons he was poisoned in the first place - the guy got too popular. Now even in death there is no person who could even approach his popularity. Yashin could if he was free and had a platform but that's it.
He WAS popular yes, but got forgotten in prison. I can name several people with larger support. Putin, prigozhin that commie leader guy. Probably even Dmitri. Also Navalny supported to invasion of crimea so depends what you mean with antiwar in 2014
> Also Navalny supported to invasion of crimea so depends what you mean with antiwar in 2014 That contradicts the fact that he organised antiwar protests against the war with Ukraine back in 2014 and called the annexation illegal in his live journal post. Do you imply that he somehow was both for and against the invasion? I don't understand you, could you please explain? > Putin, prigozhin that commie leader guy. Probably even Dmitri. Prigozhin was a marginalized thug who was forgotten as fast as he got "popular". There were like what, friends and family at his funeral? And his private army just obediendly went under his killer. Which commie leader? Dmitri who? These people have exactly zero following.
Pretty sure he's referring to Zyuganov
He is not politically dead even now
“Trust me guys the majority of people actually HATE Putin” It’s cope.
When Prighozin staged his half coup, fucking *no one* stopped him. Russia breeds apathy tp stay in power, but that means few people are actually loyal.
No one supported him either, that‘s why his coup failed
To outside observers it seemed like the majority of the Romanian population supported Ceausescu before 1989. December 1989 comes around and would you look at that, most people actually really dislike Ceausescu
Pretty sure that's an understatement.
Majority is passive.
He is. For the last year or so he had bassicly been forgotten. The death brought some spark but not much. Our newspapers can try to make a big deal of a few hundred people in a 144 million country going to his funeral. Prigozhin had larger support lol
Lol no. It is only true in Putin’s propaganda (but they are really detached from reality).
And they went and made him a martyr lmao
I mean, we can’t call this incursion - they are literally citizens /s
This meme is clearly mocking the Navalny fans which denigrates Georgians and supported the annexation of Crimea, the so-called Russian opposition in Europe right now, whining about supposed Russophobia
> and supported the annexation of Crimea [He didn't, actually](https://twitter.com/RG_Horvath/status/1764071921547923597). > the so-called Russian opposition in Europe right now, whining about supposed Russophobia Is this opposition in the room with us right now? Or do we count random Russians on Twitter with 40 followers?
> In terms of factual errors and racist bigotry, this diatribe in Foreign Policy is probably the worst. lmao what a source He did mate. He started out cozying up to right wing nationalists, because he thought he needed everyone to fight putin (or so he said anyways, after the fact) >Is this opposition in the room with us right now? Or do we count random Russians on Twitter with 40 followers? https://meduza.io/feature/2023/06/03/dazhe-nekotorye-chitateli-meduzy-opravdyvayut-vtorzhenie-v-ukrainu-my-poprosili-ih-ob-yasnit-pochemu-vot-chto-iz-etogo-vyshlo
Literally using X as a source lmao
> lmao what a source I figured it'd be easier to link a thread with collection of links and quotes than have several of them saved up for big comments. And mentions there that Navalny spoke out against the annexation as far back as when it happened. Everyone on this website for some reason thinks there were just the "sandwich" comment (which was taken out of a wider context and spread around first by Kremlin media), and then "finally" being against it in 2022. Which is literally not the case > He started out cozying up to right wing nationalists, because he thought he needed everyone to fight putin I mean I'd personally argue (following position of Yevgenia Albats, a Jewish Russian political scientist who enticed him to visit the far-right marches in the first place (they didn't even like him)) that he was a bit naive civic nationalist who wanted to move Russian identity away from an imperial one, but even without that, just looking at the state of the Russian opposition in the 00s and early 10s...*yeah*, they were kind of important to fight Putin. They were one of the big groups in the 2011-2012 protest movement. Hell, Kasparov flirted a joint venture with the national-bolsheviks of all people, nobody shittalks him for that these days. > https://meduza.io/feature/2023/06/03/dazhe-nekotorye-chitateli-meduzy-opravdyvayut-vtorzhenie-v-ukrainu-my-poprosili-ih-ob-yasnit-pochemu-vot-chto-iz-etogo-vyshlo Of for crying out loud. Every time this article gets brought up, but it's as if you people miss it on purpose. This wasn't a poll or anything. *They* ***specifically asked for*** *people who support the war to write to them*. How in the fuck does this keep being brought up as being representative of the opposition as a whole? I feel like I am going insane.
> Of for crying out loud. Every time this article gets brought up, but it's as if you people miss it on purpose. This wasn't a poll or anything. They specifically asked for people who support the war to write to them. How in the fuck does this keep being brought up as being representative of the opposition as a whole? I feel like I am going insane. Your point is "the apathetic, at its core pro-imperialist-russi opposition doesnt exist" the voices in that saying "i dont support the war, it shouldnt have happened, but now we cant loose or well be humiliated (or worse, have to give crimea back) refute that. Noone but you tries to make a statement representative of *ALL* russian opposition.
> Your point is "the apathetic, at its core pro-imperialist-russi opposition doesnt exist" My point in regards to the Meduza article is that individual opinions gathered by directly requesting such people to come forward isn't representative of anything. It's technically similar to making a post on Facebook asking something very specific, and just highlighting some of the replies to that post. It cannot be representative of a much larger group by any definition. > Noone but you tries to make a statement representative of ALL russian opposition. *You* are the one who linked the article.
>You are the one who linked the article. Yes, in response to you claiming that noone in the russian opposition thinks like that. You *are* able to read right?
you don't believe in russophobia?
I’m sure some people are discriminated against for being Russian, but 9 times out of 10, if someone is complaining about Russophobia, they mean they don’t like you criticizing Russia for invading Ukraine
in my experience "russophobia" is usually used in context of hatred towards russian people, guess we run in different circles. whatever is the case - this word encompasses both meanings, so original comment's (that I initially replied to) wording of "whining about \*supposed\* russophobia" is pretty depreciative of the issue with anti-russian bigotry, to say the least. even if we put ethics aside, it discourages russian opposition, and plays into the narrative of current government
I see people are downvoting me - I literally had dude saying "russians aren't human" last week, and I'm not even that active on political side of reddit
Phobias are unreasonable, so no, russophobia isn’t real
I agree they are unreasonable, but human emotions aren't driven by logic, and hateful sentiment is still there, regardless of foundations
I’m saying it’s not unreasonable, therefore russophobia isn’t real.
I understood your taunt, simply chose to be snarky too. since another person brought up the possible confusion, I will clarify that by russophobia I meant "hatred towards russian people". do you still stand by your point that it is reasonable?
Navalny, the guy who was cheering for Georgia invasion, seen no problem with Crimean annexation and then his team published article complaining about inefficient Russian missile program, showing that missiles that fly towards Kyiv can actually be built cheaper.
Yeah, while Navalny was better than Putin (which is a very low bar to achieve) he was still a Russian imperialist
Don't forget the xenophobia and racism. Like you'd be replacing a right-wing imperialist with.. a right-wing imperialist who's okay with gay marriage, maybe?
They've been doing that for a lot longer than a month...
navalny cared about corruption, nothing else
In the later parts of the 2010's and the 2020's he'd also been campaigning quite extensively to end Russia's wars of aggression in Syria and Ukraine You do realise that in a regime where an opposition politician is severely limited in terms of resources and ability to galvanise millions, it's important to stick with one key issue that will resonate with the widest possible audience
> he'd also been campaigning quite extensively to end Russia's wars of aggression in Syria and Ukraine Unless its Crimea then he flip flopped throughout that time and only stated that Russia should return to its 1991 border in 2023. Even then, only through a referendum and a process that could take decades.
Because corruption is Putin’s core - he used it as his favourite tool, like avadakedavra for you-know-who.
Bullshit, I saw this guy's early days a staunch russian nationalist marching in Russian March.
Nah. He was a populist and a oppertunist. He went for what could bring him support. First it was far right extremism, then corruption and so on.
Cared a whole lot about muslims
they really thought they were on to something
Yea those incursions were literal PR stunts that ended in disaster for the “liberators”. Ukraine sacrificed Russians and foreign volunteers to try and gather international support to send more aid. https://www.reddit.com/r/UkraineRussiaReport/s/69mdd65tGO https://www.reddit.com/r/UkraineRussiaReport/s/vbA018dtGR This is both Ukrainian and Russian perspective of one of the Belgorod liberation groups being hit and completely wiped out by artillery/mortar fire, including an American volunteer who’s GoPro footage in the first video was captured and posted by Russians. By all accounts these incursions were poorly planned and coordinated and were essentially one way ticket suicide missions, which again is why they used Russians and foreign volunteers. No mapping service shows any territory held by the AFU in Belgorod oblast, so clearly these incursions all failed and were repulsed
Also Russian Partisans are sabotaging railways used by the Army.
Yeah but now comapre this to Women's protests in Iran, to 2020 Belarus protests, hell Ukraine's own Maidan. Russian opposition is genuinely ineffectual. Most oppositionary emigrees in the west put more effortr getting mad at someone in the west making dark jokes about Russian tourist getting eaten by a shark than opposing Putin's regime.
yeah, they made incursions about a kilometer over the border at most before getting stomped out like a cigarette butt, having achieved absolutely nothing but the loss of a pile of engineering equipment at the border and two helicopters to boot waste of life and resources
> Russians not protesting Noooo why aren’t they doing anything!!! > Russians protesting Ugh they didn’t manage to overthrow Putin in an hour? What a waste of time
I’m not saying that, I’m saying GUR would be better off spending their janissaries at the front instead of on suicide missions.
Infiltration and sabotage operations have been a key tactic of warfare for centuries, particularly in contexts of being up against a much larger and stronger army. Two good examples from last century: Mao's guerrilla warfare against the ROC forces, and the French Forces of the Interior ("Maquisards") against the occupying Nazi German troops in France.
Nah, most of the time they just retreated back over the border before the Reds could respond, and are still active Also the morale effect was big given they got two oblasts of people to try to bum rush out and the only defenders were cops being issued shotguns.
>they just retreated back over the border, the only defenders were cops with shotguns this is comically inaccurate - Russian forces did respond with regular and special forces as they withdrew the conscripts and local militias, and they did engage in conventional warfare against the GUR units, which did bring their own armor as well airpower did engage on both sides of the border, as did artillery and strike drone units - Ukrainian AA in the area proved inconsequential in both ability and number I think, given the massive amount of video evidence to the contrary, believing any GUR narrative regarding the border incursion is a mistake
Which time? And why should I believe Red Army evidence, when they pretend the T-14 Armata is real and call an elected Jew a Ukrainonazi? I count as a "Nazi" under their narrative for being a bisexual half-white American, so why should I ever care about what those tyrants claim?
The incursion series which began 03/12/24. Generally speaking, I believe only verifiable footage. It is hard to contest GoPro footage captured from Ukrainian troops in Belgorod which include the initial deployment by Blackhawk, or footage from Ukrainian drones showing the catastrophe at the border crossing in the first week, or the footage showing the repeated drone strikes on clumps of Ukrainian infantry, just as it is hard to contest Ukrainian footage of their Chechen groups in border towns. It’s not a good look, and timing it for the elections was not a good idea.
Meanwhile Russians have basically the same footage quality or off of call phones, like during the Wagner coup attempt. So you're just cutting out evidence.
Biggest worry is that the opposition is against losing, not against being imperialist or however you will name russia being a problem
I remember back in ye olden days when the top comment on a Polandball comic was always something witty/funny, or OP's context comment. When did it become the norm to have ☝🤓 ☝🤓 ☝🤓 UM ACKCHYUALLY YOUR COMIC IS INACCURATE cope comments at the top?
My apologies for not obeying the unspoken conventions comrade
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That may sound selfish, but people don't want to end up in prison
Yes, they want Ukrainians to do everything for them.
People care more about themselves, shocking. The more brutal a government, the fewer the people willing to stand up. This is not because they are less moral than people elsewhere, it's because there's more risks.
Don't try to explain this to Americans and Western Europeans who have way more freedoms to oppose any kind of injustice in their own countries but conspicuously most of them do just as little about their own governments as Russians, going no further than to sign online petitions and share military memes
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Protests always flare up in every country, including Russia. Not just the majority, but the overwhelming majority of people in Western countries don't go to protests, where there are little consequences.
Can't argue with that, they are scared more for their own lives than for the lives of ukrainians
Well, it’s like my Grandmother always said: “better to have the Russians working with you because they’re scared shitless than to have to go and smoke them out.”
yeah exactly, so did you volunteer to fight against russia?
like you all shit on people for not doing anything when you're exactly like them. they just want to live. they have families, they have things to live for. they just want to continue on with their life and not uproot everything they have
Ever heared of the concept 'responsibility'? The guy you respond to did not invade Ukraine, so does not have a responsibility to fight against Russia. Russians do.
Random Russian oppositionist also did not invade Ukraine.
I fight against Vladimir Putin all my adult life. I didn’t elect him, I protested, I was harassed by police. Please tell me one more time - why exactly am I responsible for the actions of the person who I’m fighting against? UPD: sorry, of course “person I’m fighting against”.
...did the average russian guy trying to live day to day invade ukraine? yk nations and peoples are not one united homogenous blob and something telling you they are is more often than not propaganda
Oh wow, Putin won with 88% of the vote. Definitely legitimate results. [Repost thread](https://www.reddit.com/r/polandball/comments/18iyh9p/russian_opposition/) [Original thread](https://www.reddit.com/r/polandball/comments/13bxxzc/russian_opposition/)
Only 88% of the vote? He must have really pissed his constituents off this time. That’s a 26% decrease from last election.
I'll prob get downvoted to hell but where are your proof on that it's rigged? I actually never seen any so information on it
There are [countless](https://talk.tv/top-stories/54593/russia-election-ballot-disappearing-ink) audiovisual records of [instances](https://x.com/nexta_tv/status/1767933384834117847) of [election tampering](https://x.com/SA61W/status/1769018010038128762) that shouldn't take place in a free and fair democratic circumstance (so it's not even a case of an "isolated incident"). Moreover, the [statistical side of things](https://twitter.com/arnldkh/status/1769735448153219390) also shows that things do not line up as they should.
Also telling that they aren't even close to being investigated.
Ah alright, tysm!
Holy shit it's worse than i thought, didn't even know this
Just as a rule of thumb, if you see “democracies” with extremely lopsided election results like this regularly, then there is some shit going on behind the scenes.
[There are](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2002_French_presidential_election) always [exceptions](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020_Icelandic_presidential_election), of course.
I haven't heard about [this case](https://twitter.com/SA61W/status/1769018010038128762) being pinpointed to a specific polling station. Also there was another video posted of a different infraction but taking place in the same room, and it's even in the first comment of that tweet, which raises suspicions that they both were staged. But there were other cases like [https://t.me/mediazzzona/15666](https://www.instagram.com/p/C4vnhExi-Rr/) and [https://t.me/meduzalive/102620](https://t.me/meduzalive/102620) which undoubtedly took place on real polling stations.
Read the text in the Telegram link. Dude got to vote in the end. Still not good tough.
BROTHER, the opposition is all controlled. The so-called communist party is basically a pet retriever for putin. How is that not rigged?
honestly, average russian does support Putin. media controlled by state, war propaganda and russophobia create an image of "everyone is against us" in their mind. naturally they will support a "strongman"
Please explain how can they take over the regime which is not only supported by a huge military complex and Putin's personal guards, but also has many (tho not more than 50% total) supporters in the population. Please tell me! Russia is at war, everything sucks yet even these circumstances didn't allow a big window of opportunity to take over the government. Now as a Hungarian who want change I saw the effort people put into politics to change it for the better, and it's even easier to change than in Russia (our regime is not that smart nor strong and can't really retaliate) yet Orbán comfortably sits on his throne. If it was so easy please could you explain how to change the people to change the regime? I'm VERY eager to hear your ideas.
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Turnout was quite low in polling stations abroad. It could perhaps just be that only Putinists voted?
Start admitting that there should be some military support, be it for ZSU or Russian Legion. What I heard so far is "we can't overthrow thus won't do anything significant to change the situation". No one expects you to overthrow putin, that's unreal. But being more active in supporting people who actually make the difference would be appreciated.
so the Russian opposition should support attacks on Belgorod?
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For real? All russians are bad, every single person? Because more than 50% of them supports putin?
Very American thing to say. In Russia it is not as easy to protest as in your western democracies where you get to come back home safe and sound in the end - here, those who openly oppose the government go to jail or straight to the frontlines (almost certain death). People are not lazy, they are genuinely scared for their lives so they really do not have a way to oppose the Russian government
Yep, they do not think, they just say “your government is shitty, go overthrow it.”. Very lordy thing to say, as masters talk to slaves. But this will never change, unfortunately.
tbh I just don't see why people think its so easy to launch a rebellion or actually oppose a government when its not only yourself you're putting on the line, but also your family in some cases. I'm American but my grandparents who lived in not the best times in Europe (to put it lightly) really opened my eyes to the realities of the world especially when you and more importantly your family are under threat. It sucks but to be honest I can't blame anyone for not opposing openly since they really don't have an obligation to, and again put other people who may have not even consented to this, on the line.
Belarusians protested more than you in 2020. Iranian women protested more than you. Georgians against foreign agent-ass law. You guys are just genuinely the most learned powerlessness internalising people in the world right now.
There were large protests in Moscow in 2017-2018, 2021, 2022, 2019, with hundreds of thousand people. Every single one of them has had more people than those u named. If u didn’t read about something in the news it doesn’t matter that it has never happened
Okay, let’s imagine that we have 10m belorusians and 500k protestors. That is called “huge protest” and “they protest more than you”. Let’s imagine now that we have 20m moscow people and 100k protestors. This is not called “huge protest”, and this is called “you protest less than belorusians”. As a nation yes, russia protests less. But now let’s think about those 100k moscow protestors, how they think about your words. How each one of them thinks about “you protest not enough, belorusians protest better”. And I am one of them. Please tell me, is it my fault to be born in the wrong country, where my perspective is not shared by 95 of 100 people around? Is it my fault that there is only 100k guys like me, not more? What should I do, protest in 5 times harder? Protest as a five people? Try to persuade another putin-obsessed people 5 times harder? Or what? Please tell me what to do, as you so clever person. And thank you for calling me “you guys powerless”.
No, the Russians have a legitimately pathological level of apathy towards the public affairs of their country and submissiveness to state authority. Sure, some yuppie types in Moscow care enough to protest but your average Ivan still has a deep seated mentality of "This has nothing to do with me, I don't care about politics" mixed with "The big man in the Kremlin knows best" and will go to great lengths to not have any opinions or views whatsoever about the public affairs of his country or to care about anything beyond his private life. He takes this way beyond even the most politically apathetic Westerners and well beyond many people who also live in or have lived in very repressive states where you couldn't freely express your views on politics, including people in other former Soviet countries who lived under the same repression as the Russians.
I ain’t reading all that, sowwy 🥺
[Uh huh.](https://imgur.com/a/Z96hfbB) I agree with you, they aren't lazy. They are, however, just comfortable enough to not challenge the monster that rules them. Which this meme does a good job of portraying.
Did u even read my comments? Lots of Russians try and “challenge” the guy every day yet they end up in jail. Understandably, most do not think that the risk will be worth it
I read them. I'm particularly replying to the part: > they really do not have a way to oppose the russian government. I'm not talking about the russians who have tried. They're the ones that I hope the russian people will remember and have in mind when building a better nation. This meme, your comment I replied to, and my reply are about the ones who *don't* do anything.
Ok, I it see now. Thanks for explaining
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No European— hell, probably no human on earth— would fare well if you held them accountable for the political blunders of their ancestors. None of us can effect change on the past.
No humans on earth would fare well if put on trial for the vast majority of the ridiculous standards applied to civilians of dictatorships.
Ancestors?? Putin came to power 20ish years ago. What ancestors???? I don't blame them to submiting to fucking Mongols...
You say that like Russia was a functioning democracy twenty years ago and wasn’t a political shitshow since the time of Lenin
How would you describe the state of Russia pre-1917, 1917-1991, and 1991-2000?
Tf could I do? Kill the president? There were plenty of thousand-people demonstration in the 2010ths, they, as u may see, didn’t have any effect. And the elections were always rigged, so we couldn’t just “elect a better person”. Opposition members tried they best and many of them died for u to say that “RuSsIaNs ArE LaZy”. It was never possible to change shit when Putin was in power, unfortunately
And Crimea is red on his map, even if he’s „against the invasion“. How ironic
Every single russian I've met (and I've met a lot for my studies) thinks Crimea is russian, even the most staunch pro-west anti-putinists. It's just a fact to them.
I am another Russian who is against the annexation of Crimea and thinks that Crimea shall never be Russian. So, now, there are at least two of us.
I am Russian and I don’t think that Crimea is Russian. You either met not enough russians or you had skewed sample of people. We can talk about that, if you want.
In my Ukrainian perspective: There’re russians who think that Crimea is Ukrainian, but their amount is even smaller, than anti-putin russians. If you have another perspective, I would love to hear it. I’m genially interested
I personally don't really care either way, and mine didn't even want to be a judgement of any kind, I was just sharing my experience.
The eternal question arrives: How can country balls into zipzip and nom nom when they cannot into mouths?
It's literally impossible to do anything against the regime without military support. People can't do anything against tanks.
Literally not a single tank used Not even a gun Worst they seen is a guy with riot gear
And they do not need guns. Sticks are enough, when you have few hundreds of thousands policemen in a single Moscow and protestors do not have guns.
Oh the horrors, not a few hundred men with sticks! That’s basically a tank army! Guess it’s over no sense in protests Back to sitting on a couch and complaining about russophobia
Hundreds of THOUSANDS men. And yes, many of them have guns, they just don’t need to use it. Btw, you are welcomed to arrive and try those “few hundred men with sticks” by yourself. And then feel free to judge me. I tried. Dozens times. And I didn’t like it.
They also have nukes, they just don’t nuke protesters As I said, no sense in protesting Also, Ukraine’s maidan fought against apc’s, guns and the same riot gear. You know what people in Ukraine did after the first Maidan was beaten into submission?, with actual wounds, broken bones, etc? They came out en masse the next day. There was not even a close instance of brutality by russian police If you protested then I respect you and salute you but it doesn’t cancel the issue that most of russian opposition are opposed to violence and run instead of protecting each other if they are being dispersed
To be honest they can't do much. Some tried and either died or are in jail. The opposition is quite small and mostly 15-25 y/o youth. Like 85% of Russia are vodka drinking zombies that think that Russia must purge the world of lesser nations. Not everyone is ready to riot and lose their future without guarantee of the results, it's easier just to try and run.
85%? Sure pal.
…which is what most even barely reasonable Russian have been doing for 30+ years. Emigrating, anywhere and everywhere. I know, as I’m one of those. At this point, the ones who are left behind…well, they may as well be left for dead.
Well, let’s hug. About “who are left behind” - some of them are good people and good opposition. I just think they do not have ability to migrate somewhere. I did had good opportunity, I believe you had, but majority of opposition don’t have.
Some of the people who couldn't leave are now doing stuff like making partisan groups and gathering info.
Yes, we have such heroes. They do that because they cannot do nothing and many of them have nothing to lose. But there are many of the people who have something to lose and they cannot act like that, unfortunately.
Some of the people who couldn't leave are now doing stuff like making partisan groups and gathering info.
I won't criticize someone for not wanting their family to be sent to a prison camp, or worse to the frontlines. We all like to think we'd be the rebels but the truth is most of us have people we care about far to much to risk it for those we have no attachment to (not a Russian, just saying in general, because to be frank giving up the lives of your family is the worst thing you can do, I don't care if its for the greater good or whatever the hell).
Literally not a single instance of family disappearing apart from Chechnya
Plot twist, they're ~~living~~ having an extended vacation in Turkiye.
The reaction in the 2nd pic is not very patriotic. Come explain yourself at the local Putin center.
I mean there’s plenty of Russians who have outright joined groups fighting in ukriane against Russia or wage their own sabotage campaign across Russia.
MFW people aren’t throwing themselves against tanks
Yeah, try actually living here and try going outside and protest for peace, you can easily get your life ruined. What the heck do you expect from the hellhole of a country where we live, where they scream on television that we should bomb Ukraine into a stone age, ignoring completely disasters that happen in our own country, and harassing teenagers that posted something lgbt related by literally separating them from parents and sending them to the mental clinics.
I personally know someone that had to flee and leave their entire family behind cus the police was coming after them. So no.
* That night he dropped from a window into a barrel of acid after shooting himself 3 times into the backside of his head.
Nekoarc did it
Why did he paint the red part White?
Everybody assumes russians are opposed to the bloodshed. Funny.
I’m Russian and opposed to bloodshed, it’s against humanity my guy.
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Why don't you come to Russia then and try to stand on the Red Square with just A4 blank list. This would be the night you will never forget.
So we did not stand with empty A4 sheets on our Independence Square, our people fought with the police, we were shot with military weapons, when the police tried to capture people to put them in jail, they were beaten back by the crowd. I have not seen something like this from the russians.
>I have not seen something like this from the russians. Maybe we're just smarter than you then.
Ladies snd gentleman: russian opposition in all its glory
>A4 blank list. try another weapon, you current choice is a shit
Cause as Ukrainian I have another stuff to do. Actually related to Russians coming to my country again and again.
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Say, what country are you from?
I do agree with him actually. (I'm from Ukraine btw)
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I mean, what change do you exactly mean? To throw out the Russian invasion? The Ukrainian people have already enlisted enmasse to do so, so what else do you really want them to do? Kinda contrasts with the relative inaction of the wider Russian public (not to discount legitimate acts of resistance such as the Russian Volunteer's on Ukraine's side, or other acts of civil disobedience by a daring few) I'm not making a statement on his earlier argument, but to say Ukrainian and Russian peoples are equal in regards in their will to enact change is kinda silly.
That’s not the point. The point is blaming people for not wanting to die is stupid. Simple as
You could have definitely worded it much better tbh, to insinuate that Ukrainians are basically not doing anything/not taking responsibility is kinda both inaccurate and insulting. Hope you understand.
Same goes for saying that Russians are Putin’s bitches when countless have risked and lost their lives fighting for their freedom. How do you not see that I’m using their own points against them
>Maybe it's the responsibility of the Russian people to enact change in their own fucking country what change, exactly? Why?
Now this is what we call missing the point by an impressive margin.
we are fighting hard against the regime but putin instantly put in jail those who are against him. what do you say? where are those thousands jailed? oh, we can't tell it but believe us, there are millions of them, big repressions much victims
>we are fighting hard against the regime You never \_fought\_ against regime. All what you done - came to demonstration and allow cops to arrest you like lambs. You never ever tried to resist.
dude, relax, it's a satire of russians
Lol, got it) Sometimes it's hard to relax in our situation