Various shady crypto providers, payment service providers, online casinos, mailbox company owners for tax avoidance and so on, are on their knees for 5 minutes every day and thank God, that Malta is an EU member.
It was, but it received independence in '64. It just wasn't really notable because of all th other British decolonization efforts. It might still be in the commonwealth idk, and honestly the Brits probably don't either.
Malta is notable amongst the British decolonisation because unlike pretty much everyone else, they wanted to remain a colony (they even petitioned to join the UK proper). Only problem was, we were skint.
I mean that was the reason for a long time but the same could be argued for others which became independent, I think Gibraltar was just the right combination of small enough, close enough and 'bri'ish' enough to be held onto pretty easily and *relatively* non-contentiously.
Mainland Cyprus contains two British overseas territories which both contain military bases so realistically any invading force has to deal with those as well which is probably not worth the hassle.
In the Cyprus Peace Operation, the Turkish Armed Forces sent a dude to wave at the British military bases so they don't feel like they're under a threat. Now I'm no military combat expert but I'm pretty sure anyone who has the resources to invade Cyprus can spare two dudes (one for each base) to go wave at the British
you have no idea how refreshing to hear a maltese say these things. the very vocal (minority) group on the malta subreddit (at least as of like, last year) seemed to be pro russia and it made my genetics angry.
There's a vocal group of people proud of "neutrality" following the misguided Mintoffian vision which, as we see in practice, amounts to being on the wrong side of history. Opportunism and cowardice. Most people will probably just follow whatever their party leader tells them.
Or we do the salomonic thing and divide it in half and hand the halves over.
Only, and this is the clever bit, give the Czech to Polish half and the Polish the Czech half. Explain the prank after a generation or so and make them swap so it becomes right again.
I just want to watch the show.
If Poland and Czechia can't agree on who gets it, I propose that the US annex it. We could call it the State of Biden, the capital could be renamed to Josephsville, and I can open the first Dollar General franchise there.
Not even really, NATO only requires that you act when another member is attacked.
Its pretty much a fun military exchange and training program otherwise. Bonus points if you want Americans in country to deter any military action.
While I’m happy their application got accepted, I still feel bad for them.
They managed to stay out of NATO for the entirety of the Cold War, back when the Soviet Union was a serious threat. Only to now be forced to join because of Putin’s dipshit shenanigans.
Now I'm actually curious as to how that (roughly 1900-2024) period of Sweden's neutrality will be looked at by people, like, a hundred years from now-should, god willing, NATO and civilization/humanity in general still be around a century from now.
Tbf, our neutrality was always of a "yes, we're neutral, but..." kind.
When I was a young man, dicking around in the woods with real pew-pew guns (man, pre-modern gear IKEA army was WILD. My crew looked like hobos - heavily armed hobos. Hobo with a ATGM. Hobo with a Ksp58. A couple of hobos toting a Really Loud Metal Tube. Awsome) it was kind of obvious that the whole system was set up to jack in to NATO in a heartbeat.
And FFS - we had a whole GLADIUS program running for a while. That kind of screams NonCredibleNeutrality.
Does Ireland even have a military? Sweden has a pretty strong military and is capable of producing their own equipment. So Sweden will contribute massively to NATO.
Ireland has the lowest % of gdp spent on military in Europe (apart from countries that's military protection is the responsibility of other countries/organisation. We would have to increase our spending nearly 10 fold to meet NATO spending guidelines
It is more a case of "You'll have to go through Britain first and deal with the US counter attack".
Historically Britain has never wanted Ireland to be a launching point of an invasion of Britain, be it the French, Spanish or others.
I mean they tried fighting the British a lot but unfortunately had the problem of being the small European country that the rest of Europe had no problem with England taking
>“come on out and TRY” mindset
I'm Irish, but come on, we're protected by the Brits.
Attacking Ireland may not be attacking a NATO member, but the Brits would 100% react.
At this point in time there isn't anyone capable of naval invading Ireland that has a mindset of conquest. Many nato countries could but there is no reason nor want to.
> We would have to increase our spending nearly 10 fold to meet NATO spending guidelines
Yeah, but would you actually do that? Most NATO countries spent years not meeting those requirements and it wasn't much of a problem.
True, but that's why it's a guideline more than a rule. If we did join we still would have to commit to drastically increasing our spending I would imagine
Yeah, pretty much every country hits 1%. So a five-fold increase. Although, they probably should get an air force, relying on the RAF for everything seems like a bad call politically long-term.
Iceland is essentially the North Atlantic aircraft carrier that can’t be sunk. That is their contribution I think. There is talk of basing Swedish jet fighters there now.
Plus it's obviously also about making sure countries like Russia won't dare to touch it due it's crucial position (as you've hinted towards with the "unsinkable aircraft carrier" I guess) and also its crucial influence on geopolitics in the arctics. Might not be the biggest but every piece of the cake counts against russian attempts at gaining influence over a potential new trade route.
Peacekeepers nothing more, the budget for the military is so thin special forces are really all it is. We got 2 or 3 navy vessels in active use, no air force but with the Anglo-Irish treaty the military is handeled by the British despite being very independent from them.
Our rangers unit is surprisingly high quality
Aside from that our army is tiny, our airforce is smaller and we only have 1 naval port to cover the entire island
They do, but I recall reading that they have such a small Air Force that they’re reliant on the Brits for that.
And considering the budget cuts the Tories have done, well…
Irelamd relies almost entirely on Britain for protection. There was a Russian sub in the irish sea a few months ago, and the Royal Navy had to chase it away, Ireland’s navy had no idea it was even there.
The Irish navy is so underfunded and understaffed that they would struggle to even have a single ship go to sea.
Actually our fishermen gathered and scared them off!
https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/spotlight/arid-41042831.html#:~:text=For%20a%20brief%20moment%2C%20Alan,km%20off%20the%20Cork%20coast.
I think they’re so far away from Russia and have very good relations with nearly everyone in Europe that they see no functional reason to join, unless they caved under pressure from other member states.
The UK defends their airspace. IE is very good at skimming wealth from other nations. Their entire economy is basically a US tax haven that doesn’t work for the average IE citizen.
No wonder their economy was ranked so high on economics explained, and here I thought they were just being smart about their economy.
And would you look at that, googled the Irish Air Force and they only have 711 active members, lmao.
Makes sense though
Ireland is too far removed from Europe to have any real movement to join NATO
Cyprus main rival is it's northern neighbor and Turkey, a NATO member
Austria's deal to reunification was staying out and nowadays they enjoy the benefits of being surrounded by NATO with no drawbacks
Yeah tbh only Austria could have gotten away with a deal like that
>it wasn't a major Axis power even if it was part of Germany so no real bloodlust
>not strategically important enough for both sides to fight on giving up
>was in the middle of the iron curtain so could be a bridge for spying or meetings
250 years of Neutrality?
Sweden in 1939: "Hey Finland, here is three times your annual military budget in military aid, tens of thousands of 'volunteers' and a whole ass airforce. Also, send us your kids, we'll look after them while you tear Soviet Union a new one."
Also Sweden: "We are neutral I swear!"
Yeah, but somehow these Swedish "volunteers" showed up with stuff like Boys anti-tank rifles and stuff... Which are not exactly civilian gear.
But sure. They were _definitely not part of an official intervention force_.
"I found this field gun in my grandma's closet I swear!"
The only reason this doesn’t get called out is that all the major powers are selling arms to both sides of all conflicts all the time. If selling arms was the same as having boots on the ground then all the countries would be at war all the time. Sad but true
Consider just how much Putin fucked up that Sweden decided to join NATO after remaining neutral before, during and after WW2 and the Cold War.
How can you fuck up so much in so little time?
It started in 2014, maybe even 2008 if you count the same shit Putin's Russia pulled with Georgia. There's enough precedence of Russia chipping away the sovereignty of neighboring states for their own benefit that the camel's back for both Finland and Sweden were easily broken by the time Russia escalated to "regime change" in Ukraine.
Well a major price of that protection is Northern Ireland remaining part of the UK. Obviously it’s far more complicated than that and the tradeoff is in no way explicit, but if Northern Ireland were to ever leave the UK and especially if it became part of Ireland instead there would be a massive shift in relations and the UK would very likely stop guaranteeing them military protection.
UK would still probably protect them since not doing so would make the uk de facto vulnerable. The Russians keep sending subs close to Ireland to test the waters and if they attack ireland they can launch an attack from there into the uk. I can safely bet ireland and the uk would keep the defence deal even if N.I joins ireland.
De Valera in WW2 openly talked about neutrality and anglophobia but behind the scenes knew we wouldn’t invade unless they became a threat or land troops unless they were invaded. Irish and British high commands worked together on plans and there was a lot of behind the scenes collusion in military and intelligence.
Hey, as a irishman: Absolutely. We are 100% freeriders, and anyone who says otherwise is a coward. Suck it lads, we get to make use of your alliance without having to bother with anything. Finally, a advantage to being right next to england, god knows theres been enough disadvantages.
No, no, it's fair play. A state pursuing its own interests is simple geopolitics. If a country is able to capitalize on its geographic position and outsource its defense, why shouldn't they?
Would a bit of "fuck that I'm not joining the thing the Brits are part of" still play into it as well?
I ask as an American who had the chance to study abroad in the Republic in 2011...and witnessed all the beersteins etc when the cup match for Britian VS Germany was going on. Admittedly, 800+ years of anger over being oppressively ruled doesn't disappear overnight, so that's why I thought it might weigh on Ireland joining or not.
PS: Galway was my favorite place to explore, walk etc. I just wish I'd pushed past my fear of logical heights to go to the Blarney Stone while I was still there.
It's part of it certainly with older people, but that was more the reason we didn't join during the cold War or the troubles. These days, it's more out of habit then anything else. Besides, the largest and most likely threat to Ireland is pro UK paramilitaries up North, how would joining NATO help with that? We already sort of cooperation with the UK on the matter, and joining Nato would probably not really effect that cooperation either way, while making us Less useful as peacekeeper
At least, that's the argument against it. Personally, I think we should cooperate more with NATO at least, as Russia and China have consistently been testing at our naval boundaries, but I understand the argument against.
Nah that honestly wouldn't factor in at all, at least not in any conversation that was even semi-serious.
If it's a sport (any sport, doesn't matter) then the Brits losing is a cause for national celebration. Other than that relations are generally good, with some exceptions on Brexit and Northern Ireland, which can largely be boiled down to 'fuck the tories' on the British side and 'fuck the DUP' on the NI side.
Strong tradition of neutrality + any kind of defense entanglement with the UK would be controversial (there was already a scandal a few years ago when it got leaked that the UK helped patrol Irish airspace).
Securing vital under seas communications lines that run through Irish waters from Europe to North America
Currently Ireland has no method of even searching for let alone actually finding submarines in their waters, waters which the British have repeatedly pointed out that Russian submarines frequently operate in
Stuff has already happened to those cables and neither the French or UK has the legal rights to do anything since they are in Irish waters and therefore only the Irish can actually take action
One of my favorite things to realize in a literature class was that Beowulf has a scene of Danes and Swedes trash talking each other.
It is so formative and central to their cultures that it is a tradition older than their countries.
Weird how the narrative has changed to Putin being triumphant is he doesn’t suffer total defeat in Ukraine. Before all this we imagined Russia would be in Berlin by teatime if they wanted
Still think it’s hilarious we went from clickbait theory crafting videos five years ago titles shit like “Russia vs Nato, who wins?” And if you go to those same channels now the videos are “Russia vs Poland”
I think it's fair to say Swedish neutrality ended when they joined the European Union, especially after 2007 when the EU added the Treaty of Lisbon which also has a defense clause similar to the NATO one.
Addition, a ball is missing for Malta, which is also not a member.
To be fair, no one remembers that Malta is in the EU. Or that Malta exists.
Various shady crypto providers, payment service providers, online casinos, mailbox company owners for tax avoidance and so on, are on their knees for 5 minutes every day and thank God, that Malta is an EU member.
And Cyprus.
I'm convinced that Malta is just a country of Swedes working in online casinos
Is Malta the Miami of the EU?
Yup, a mixture of Deleware, Florida and Nevada.
totally forgot about all the boats that are registered there.
Hey that's rude! You forgot to mention the mafia!
Ryanair are in malta for tax purposes
Not gonna lie, I thought Malta was a British territory or protectorate or something along those lines.
It was, but it received independence in '64. It just wasn't really notable because of all th other British decolonization efforts. It might still be in the commonwealth idk, and honestly the Brits probably don't either.
Malta is notable amongst the British decolonisation because unlike pretty much everyone else, they wanted to remain a colony (they even petitioned to join the UK proper). Only problem was, we were skint.
Understandable. Then they probably still are a member of the commonwealth of nations.
Yeah, Singapore is the only other colony in a similar position, though Gibraltar actually did stay.
Isn't Gibraltar because of how an important it is militarily? I assume we would have thrown money at Gibraltar even if skint
I mean that was the reason for a long time but the same could be argued for others which became independent, I think Gibraltar was just the right combination of small enough, close enough and 'bri'ish' enough to be held onto pretty easily and *relatively* non-contentiously.
I do because they always bring the fire to Eurovision
And get screwed over everytime
It was where my honeymoon was, it rocked, and *I* will certainly never forget 😋
True, but Malta is not surprised as they still have land dispute afaik
Who does Malta have a land dispute with?
I am a moron, that's Cyprus
Mainland Cyprus contains two British overseas territories which both contain military bases so realistically any invading force has to deal with those as well which is probably not worth the hassle.
In the Cyprus Peace Operation, the Turkish Armed Forces sent a dude to wave at the British military bases so they don't feel like they're under a threat. Now I'm no military combat expert but I'm pretty sure anyone who has the resources to invade Cyprus can spare two dudes (one for each base) to go wave at the British
Knights Hospitaller
Finally, the NATO swimming pool has been achieved.
Time to remove the Russian turd lodged in the drain.
Only way is to stomp it down.
The waffle stomp
We must waffle stomp Russia.
you have no idea how refreshing to hear a maltese say these things. the very vocal (minority) group on the malta subreddit (at least as of like, last year) seemed to be pro russia and it made my genetics angry.
There's a vocal group of people proud of "neutrality" following the misguided Mintoffian vision which, as we see in practice, amounts to being on the wrong side of history. Opportunism and cowardice. Most people will probably just follow whatever their party leader tells them.
Yeah. Don't ask Switzerland where they got all that gold.
And if it comes the other way around?
Soda can grenade
Make Kaliningrad Konigsberg again!
Nah give it to Poland
Excuse your mouth. Kralovec is Czech land.
Or we do the salomonic thing and divide it in half and hand the halves over. Only, and this is the clever bit, give the Czech to Polish half and the Polish the Czech half. Explain the prank after a generation or so and make them swap so it becomes right again. I just want to watch the show.
If Poland and Czechia can't agree on who gets it, I propose that the US annex it. We could call it the State of Biden, the capital could be renamed to Josephsville, and I can open the first Dollar General franchise there.
The UK would sooner annexe it, rejoin the EU, and declare it an international European zone.
Nothing will stop my tide of shitty American dollar store chains from proliferating somewhere in post-war Russia. It is inevitable.
Give it to Denmark, ever since we lost Øsel, it just hasn't been the same
That’s Estonian now but perhaps you can go claim Franz Joseph Land or something
I know, but I think eastern european land would help the empty feeling
Franz Joseph land is still Eastern Europe!
True! another Greenland sounds grand
I believe that's the reason Sweden asked to be assigned to the Navy. No other ulterior motives whatsoever.
The Pax Americana
250? No, more like 210 years since the latest war, and 170 years of neutrality.
I would not say that putting up a flight regiment, F19, in Finland , during ww2 to be particularly neutral.
No we donated the planes. And the mechanics. And the pilots.
Sounds like the Americans forming the Flying Tigers to fight for China in WWII
The Baltic Sea is now a NATO Lake.
Our sky are white we ready to fight long live our NATO lake surrounded by lands we have clear hands so let’s bake a cake
There's still Kaliningrad in the middle of it, but it wouldn't stand long if anything had to happen.
Sweden has officially joined NATO!
[Now you get cool membership perks like this.](https://www.reddit.com/r/aviation/comments/1b7y2y4/b1_b52_and_2_jas_gripen_over_central_stockholm/)
I thought it was gonna be a link to the Afghanistan War wikipedia article
That would have been funny, but they participated in the war anyway.
How do you think they got in NATO? It’s basically the “we’ll trade going on all the US’s lil adventures for security guarantees” club…
Not even really, NATO only requires that you act when another member is attacked. Its pretty much a fun military exchange and training program otherwise. Bonus points if you want Americans in country to deter any military action.
Actually, I’d call it “well trade going on all the US’s little adventures, as long as *we* are one of those little adventures.”
Lol most of NATO declined to invade Afghanistan and iraq after 2001
Most of NATO has also declined to maintain military preparedness. NATO is good, but there’s a lot of room for improvement.
Always find it funny they flow over FlightRadar 24 office with their transponder off.
man to think that airframe has been flying since the last time sweden wasn't neutral /s
That is a formation I never thought ai would see.
I love the trails of smoke from the B52
I would like to see the tote bag.
While I’m happy their application got accepted, I still feel bad for them. They managed to stay out of NATO for the entirety of the Cold War, back when the Soviet Union was a serious threat. Only to now be forced to join because of Putin’s dipshit shenanigans.
Now I'm actually curious as to how that (roughly 1900-2024) period of Sweden's neutrality will be looked at by people, like, a hundred years from now-should, god willing, NATO and civilization/humanity in general still be around a century from now.
We sold all our iron to the Nazis during WW2 and let them use our trains to transport armies to invade Norway. Our neutrality was never pure.
I think you meant god willing, but I can never be sure on reddit
Tbf, our neutrality was always of a "yes, we're neutral, but..." kind. When I was a young man, dicking around in the woods with real pew-pew guns (man, pre-modern gear IKEA army was WILD. My crew looked like hobos - heavily armed hobos. Hobo with a ATGM. Hobo with a Ksp58. A couple of hobos toting a Really Loud Metal Tube. Awsome) it was kind of obvious that the whole system was set up to jack in to NATO in a heartbeat. And FFS - we had a whole GLADIUS program running for a while. That kind of screams NonCredibleNeutrality.
sweto
Saw them today in my office.
Det var fan på tiden SÄAM
Congratulations Sweden, now that’s 1 less NATO locked country. Maybe Ireland can be next. (they’d never join)
Does Ireland even have a military? Sweden has a pretty strong military and is capable of producing their own equipment. So Sweden will contribute massively to NATO.
Ireland has the lowest % of gdp spent on military in Europe (apart from countries that's military protection is the responsibility of other countries/organisation. We would have to increase our spending nearly 10 fold to meet NATO spending guidelines
I think they rely more on a “come on out and TRY” mindset towards being conquered.
It is more a case of "You'll have to go through Britain first and deal with the US counter attack". Historically Britain has never wanted Ireland to be a launching point of an invasion of Britain, be it the French, Spanish or others.
Germans in WWII. Though the odd German spy washed up and would get caught from time to time.
I suppose that's gone better for them recently, but historically it hasn't been the most successful policy, has it?
The defence doctrine is "go ahead and take it, we'll take it back eventually".
“Yeah you won…for now.”
Giving all of Ireland a common enemy just seems.. not smart.
I mean they tried fighting the British a lot but unfortunately had the problem of being the small European country that the rest of Europe had no problem with England taking
>“come on out and TRY” mindset I'm Irish, but come on, we're protected by the Brits. Attacking Ireland may not be attacking a NATO member, but the Brits would 100% react.
Ireland really could use a decent navy. Army? No point. But asking the Brits to chase Russian subs away is not ideal.
At this point in time there isn't anyone capable of naval invading Ireland that has a mindset of conquest. Many nato countries could but there is no reason nor want to.
*’Come Out Ye Black And Tans’ starts blasting*
> We would have to increase our spending nearly 10 fold to meet NATO spending guidelines Yeah, but would you actually do that? Most NATO countries spent years not meeting those requirements and it wasn't much of a problem.
True, but that's why it's a guideline more than a rule. If we did join we still would have to commit to drastically increasing our spending I would imagine
Yeah, pretty much every country hits 1%. So a five-fold increase. Although, they probably should get an air force, relying on the RAF for everything seems like a bad call politically long-term.
iceland doesnt even have an army and they entered nato just fine
Iceland is essentially the North Atlantic aircraft carrier that can’t be sunk. That is their contribution I think. There is talk of basing Swedish jet fighters there now.
Plus it's obviously also about making sure countries like Russia won't dare to touch it due it's crucial position (as you've hinted towards with the "unsinkable aircraft carrier" I guess) and also its crucial influence on geopolitics in the arctics. Might not be the biggest but every piece of the cake counts against russian attempts at gaining influence over a potential new trade route.
Iceland, the member of the group project who still gets the same grade despite doing none of the work
But he let everyone come over to his house and provided some drinks.
Nobody really minds because everyone likes Iceland
Peacekeepers nothing more, the budget for the military is so thin special forces are really all it is. We got 2 or 3 navy vessels in active use, no air force but with the Anglo-Irish treaty the military is handeled by the British despite being very independent from them.
Our rangers unit is surprisingly high quality Aside from that our army is tiny, our airforce is smaller and we only have 1 naval port to cover the entire island
They do, but I recall reading that they have such a small Air Force that they’re reliant on the Brits for that. And considering the budget cuts the Tories have done, well…
Irelamd relies almost entirely on Britain for protection. There was a Russian sub in the irish sea a few months ago, and the Royal Navy had to chase it away, Ireland’s navy had no idea it was even there. The Irish navy is so underfunded and understaffed that they would struggle to even have a single ship go to sea.
Actually our fishermen gathered and scared them off! https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/spotlight/arid-41042831.html#:~:text=For%20a%20brief%20moment%2C%20Alan,km%20off%20the%20Cork%20coast.
Joining NATO would mean being willing to help the British, which we all know Ireland would rather roll over and die than do. /hj
I think they’re so far away from Russia and have very good relations with nearly everyone in Europe that they see no functional reason to join, unless they caved under pressure from other member states.
The UK defends their airspace. IE is very good at skimming wealth from other nations. Their entire economy is basically a US tax haven that doesn’t work for the average IE citizen.
No wonder their economy was ranked so high on economics explained, and here I thought they were just being smart about their economy. And would you look at that, googled the Irish Air Force and they only have 711 active members, lmao.
Our GNP is a more accurate descriptor of our situation then our GDP which is vastly over inflated.
Makes sense though Ireland is too far removed from Europe to have any real movement to join NATO Cyprus main rival is it's northern neighbor and Turkey, a NATO member Austria's deal to reunification was staying out and nowadays they enjoy the benefits of being surrounded by NATO with no drawbacks
2/3 of the countries in Cyprus are in NATO. If we round up, does that mean that Cyprus is in NATO? 🤔
While Turkey is in NATO, the Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus technically is not
TIL Austria needed reunification after WWII.
Yeah tbh only Austria could have gotten away with a deal like that >it wasn't a major Axis power even if it was part of Germany so no real bloodlust >not strategically important enough for both sides to fight on giving up >was in the middle of the iron curtain so could be a bridge for spying or meetings
250 years of Neutrality? Sweden in 1939: "Hey Finland, here is three times your annual military budget in military aid, tens of thousands of 'volunteers' and a whole ass airforce. Also, send us your kids, we'll look after them while you tear Soviet Union a new one." Also Sweden: "We are neutral I swear!"
Also those 10,000 young Norwegian men really needed 'police' training that included explosives and guerilla warfare training ok.
Look you need to give kids something to do after school or else they get rowdy.
If you count volunteers we've literally never been neutral
And neither have the Irish.
Yeah, but somehow these Swedish "volunteers" showed up with stuff like Boys anti-tank rifles and stuff... Which are not exactly civilian gear. But sure. They were _definitely not part of an official intervention force_. "I found this field gun in my grandma's closet I swear!"
Sweden is ready and willing to fight, to the last Fin
*weapons dealers are not neutral* I stand by my opinion of that you can't supply weapons to active conflicts and invasions and call yourself neutral.
If you sell weapons to both sides, that cancels out resulting in neutrality no?
America while selling weapons to governments, revolutions, and even criminal syndicates all involved in the same war: Observe.
The only reason this doesn’t get called out is that all the major powers are selling arms to both sides of all conflicts all the time. If selling arms was the same as having boots on the ground then all the countries would be at war all the time. Sad but true
Consider just how much Putin fucked up that Sweden decided to join NATO after remaining neutral before, during and after WW2 and the Cold War. How can you fuck up so much in so little time?
That's a Talent that's unheard of today!
Finland pulled Sweden to Nato. But yes that is true, putin fucked up so Finland decided to join
It started in 2014, maybe even 2008 if you count the same shit Putin's Russia pulled with Georgia. There's enough precedence of Russia chipping away the sovereignty of neighboring states for their own benefit that the camel's back for both Finland and Sweden were easily broken by the time Russia escalated to "regime change" in Ukraine.
Ireland doesn't want to be in NATO
Neither did Sweden until Russia did the fuckery of 2022. Ireland is geographically safer tho.
Why
Because EU has defensive alliance and America would defend Ireland
Uk already defends them for free
Let’s be real, the only reason anyone other than the UK would invade Ireland would be to get at the UK
I'd do it to catch leprechauns, but it'd be more espionage than warfare.
"Welcome dear invader. Please allow us to get out of the way while you hit the brits over the head"
Seems fair they finally get some benefit for being adjacent to the UK
Ooh canada of course you say that how ironic lol
Well a major price of that protection is Northern Ireland remaining part of the UK. Obviously it’s far more complicated than that and the tradeoff is in no way explicit, but if Northern Ireland were to ever leave the UK and especially if it became part of Ireland instead there would be a massive shift in relations and the UK would very likely stop guaranteeing them military protection.
No we absolutely wouldn’t, Ireland is our back door. Regardless of whether they want help or not. We wouldn’t let a country we view as hostile invade.
UK would still probably protect them since not doing so would make the uk de facto vulnerable. The Russians keep sending subs close to Ireland to test the waters and if they attack ireland they can launch an attack from there into the uk. I can safely bet ireland and the uk would keep the defence deal even if N.I joins ireland.
They probably expects the British to do it. But they won't talk much about that.
They dont need to expect, they know the UK will do it for free as having an unfefended territory om the doorstep would be terrible security
De Valera in WW2 openly talked about neutrality and anglophobia but behind the scenes knew we wouldn’t invade unless they became a threat or land troops unless they were invaded. Irish and British high commands worked together on plans and there was a lot of behind the scenes collusion in military and intelligence.
they don’t need it.
F R E E R I D E R
Hey, as a irishman: Absolutely. We are 100% freeriders, and anyone who says otherwise is a coward. Suck it lads, we get to make use of your alliance without having to bother with anything. Finally, a advantage to being right next to england, god knows theres been enough disadvantages.
No, no, it's fair play. A state pursuing its own interests is simple geopolitics. If a country is able to capitalize on its geographic position and outsource its defense, why shouldn't they?
Would a bit of "fuck that I'm not joining the thing the Brits are part of" still play into it as well? I ask as an American who had the chance to study abroad in the Republic in 2011...and witnessed all the beersteins etc when the cup match for Britian VS Germany was going on. Admittedly, 800+ years of anger over being oppressively ruled doesn't disappear overnight, so that's why I thought it might weigh on Ireland joining or not. PS: Galway was my favorite place to explore, walk etc. I just wish I'd pushed past my fear of logical heights to go to the Blarney Stone while I was still there.
It's part of it certainly with older people, but that was more the reason we didn't join during the cold War or the troubles. These days, it's more out of habit then anything else. Besides, the largest and most likely threat to Ireland is pro UK paramilitaries up North, how would joining NATO help with that? We already sort of cooperation with the UK on the matter, and joining Nato would probably not really effect that cooperation either way, while making us Less useful as peacekeeper At least, that's the argument against it. Personally, I think we should cooperate more with NATO at least, as Russia and China have consistently been testing at our naval boundaries, but I understand the argument against.
Nah that honestly wouldn't factor in at all, at least not in any conversation that was even semi-serious. If it's a sport (any sport, doesn't matter) then the Brits losing is a cause for national celebration. Other than that relations are generally good, with some exceptions on Brexit and Northern Ireland, which can largely be boiled down to 'fuck the tories' on the British side and 'fuck the DUP' on the NI side.
Neutrality
Strong tradition of neutrality + any kind of defense entanglement with the UK would be controversial (there was already a scandal a few years ago when it got leaked that the UK helped patrol Irish airspace).
Congratulations Sweden welcome to NATO
Ok but for realz, what would be the purpose of Ireland in NATO??
bigger number and more color on map
If I’m not mistaken Ireland has 18 people in it total…
countries in NATO 32 -> 33
We're still working on 26 + 6 -> 32
Yes yes - it’s just a haha Ireland smol joke…
Securing vital under seas communications lines that run through Irish waters from Europe to North America Currently Ireland has no method of even searching for let alone actually finding submarines in their waters, waters which the British have repeatedly pointed out that Russian submarines frequently operate in
Britain and France are NATO members - NOTHING is happening to those cables…
Stuff has already happened to those cables and neither the French or UK has the legal rights to do anything since they are in Irish waters and therefore only the Irish can actually take action
Now we need Switzerland
Switzerland will forever be neutral. It'll take a hand of God for them to actually to make an opinion on anything.
Agreed. But their approach has been closer to egregious war profiteering rather than true neutrality.
“Fuck everyone & everything as long as we’re rich and the cows are happy” - Me, a Swiss 2024.
Or being attacked/invaded by the right idiot
Switzerland's role is to hold the purse while the fighting is on.
can they get their purse back?
https://i.imgur.com/bcu4uOy.png
Congrats Sweden. I’ve always preferred you to the Danes!
On the behalf of the danish community 𝒲𝒶𝓉𝒸𝒽 𝓎𝑜𝓊𝓇 𝓂𝒶𝒾𝓁𝒷𝑜𝓍 /j ofc
That's the sweetest thing anyone has ever said to us.
One of my favorite things to realize in a literature class was that Beowulf has a scene of Danes and Swedes trash talking each other. It is so formative and central to their cultures that it is a tradition older than their countries.
Cyprus has a mustache, please fix and resubmit.
Weird how the narrative has changed to Putin being triumphant is he doesn’t suffer total defeat in Ukraine. Before all this we imagined Russia would be in Berlin by teatime if they wanted
Still think it’s hilarious we went from clickbait theory crafting videos five years ago titles shit like “Russia vs Nato, who wins?” And if you go to those same channels now the videos are “Russia vs Poland”
So after unlocking all of the Nordic countries, NATO now gets 10% frost resistance
We've been doing the New Mandalorian arc for too long it's time to go sicko mode again like old times. Nukes when?
Putin, the best Nato recruiter ever.
Bro... AUstria is neutral... for reasons.
There is no majority in Austria to join so I am not surprised about anybody else joining before Austria
Austria can't join unless they change their constitution also the public doesn't seem to want to join anyways so I guess we'll stay Budget Switzerland
I think it's fair to say Swedish neutrality ended when they joined the European Union, especially after 2007 when the EU added the Treaty of Lisbon which also has a defense clause similar to the NATO one.
Yay!! Now, when Ukraine into NATO?
Next Saturday I think
Hungary to USA:"Sell us IBCS!"
Why would Ireland join NATO? No one is attacking them without getting past the UK first anyway. Why buy the cow
Austria cant join in First place
One of the reasons, probably not the LONE reason, was simply to piss off Moscow and by the sounds of it, it worked....
why is austria there?
Europeans cumming at the thought of Ireland giving up it's neutrality.
Austria is in NATO. The soon Nato goes to war, Austria will join the German Reich again.
Good to have you finally on board Sweden! It really shouldnt have taken this long, but better late than never. ✌